Now, why is that? And what are self-professed non-radical Muslims doing about it?
"Radicals winning in Dutch mosques, government warns," from Expatica, with thanks to Ana:
AMSTERDAM — Radical Muslims are gaining influence over their moderate co-religious at an increasing rate in the Netherlands.This was the main finding of the fourth progress report on combating terrorism which Interior Ministers Johan Remkes and Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on Wednesday.
It said that ultra-orthodox Salafism in particular was making its presence felt in an increasing number of mosques. This is a radical branch that seeks to return to the "pure Islam" of the days of Mohammed.
Adherents often shun western society and criticise efforts by other Muslims to integrate into Dutch society. The movement has been linked to the Wahhabism of Saudi Arabia.
Followers of radical Islam have successfully used the internet and lectures to win over more followers and gain control of moderate mosques, Remkes said. Both he and his colleague said the ideological influences exerted by radical Muslims was a cause for concern.
It's no contest. The radical muslims have the koran and mohammed on their side.
The radicals are also willing to kick ass and take names, while the moderates are, err moderate.Radicals offer a program of direct action, that not only gives the finger to the European hosts ( in a host/parasite sense), but also gives Islamic participants the frisson of rebellion against a status quo that is foreign to them anyway.
Within Islam, there is no principled way to oppose the “extreme” mullahs. They have the Koran on their side, and the Islamic tradition of Koranic literalism runs much deeper than the Christian analog. The would-be “moderates” have no place to stand, so the only options they have are to renounce Islam or stand mute. I'm supposing this is why the entire Islamic world has been unable to summon up more than a few muted protests against Islamic terrorism since 9/11. This is not an accident. Violent absolutism is wired into the DNA of Islam.
US student charged with supporting al Qaeda
An American student suspected of helping supply Islamic militants fighting US forces in Afghanistan was indicted by a federal grand jury on terrorism charges on Wednesday, officials said.
Syed Hashmi, 26, a US citizen originally from Queens, New York, and studying and living in London, was arrested at Heathrow airport on Tuesday when he was about to board a plane to Pakistan, FBI spokesman James Margolin said. (Reuters)
http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3083,00.html
There is an upside of this. Just consider what would have happened if the muslim minority kept quiet for another 40 years or so, while keeping the imigration (to Europe and North America) and birth rates up. At 30-60% of the population, there would be no turning back. Now there still is. Where would we go. Ireland, Poland (fine but not enough space), South America (crowded), Antartica (bit cold)? Even North Korea would start to make sense (see Mohammed, Kim Jong Il. Tough choice. I don't know).
And their winning in Canada too, below is a CAIR notice that it's the Governments fault for creating these young Muslims that are drawn to Terrorism and smear the Peaceful image of Islam.
Now that we know Politicians were the targets for beheadings and hostage taking , will CAIR and the Burqa crowd expect to have instant access to the Parliamentary press room.
What a perfect terrorism plot, pretend to
preach Peace and love to drawn in Canadas leaders and then in come suicide bombers dressed in a Burqa that slaughter the stupid sheep that have spend a decade believing Islam means Peace.
*************************************************
National Canadian Muslim and Arab organizations will hold a press conference on June 8, 2006 to discuss the issue of youth extremism and how government and law enforcement officials can support Muslim and Arab communities as they move forward to address this pressing issue.
They will call on Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty and Toronto Mayor David Miller to hold a summit with community leaders, government and law enforcement officials to ensure that Canadian Muslim and Arab communities are working together with all levels of government and police officials and have their full support.
WHAT: News Conference
WHEN: 12:30 p.m. on June 8, 2006
WHERE: Charles Lynch Rm. 130 S, Centre Block, Parliament Hill
WHO: Karl Nickner, (bilingual) Executive Director of the Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-CAN); Mohamed Sheibani, President of the Muslim Students Association (MSA-National); Shahina Siddiqui, President of the Islamic Social Services Association (ISSA).
Ah, this is the difference, or 'one of the differences' between Islam and other religions. The Salafi's revert to the 'ancient' Islam, the true believers, sloughing off all innovation. Many believe in the Takfir ideology. This nice little 'offshoot' believes that not only are we, Non-Islamic folks, are scum, but also the 'secular' governments are also apostates. They have another endearing quality: the shave, even drink a bud to fit in, allowing them to hide in pure view. Since if you commit Jihad, destroying your opponents, you meet the virgins.
What does this have to do with Christianity or Jewish life? Nothing: that's the point. Ever seen the amish. They view their religion quite seriously, as do the ultra-orthodox Jews(some to such an extent they view the state of Israel as apostate), but you see neither blowing up buses or beheading the weakly religious. Most want to be left alone. In fact this concept of Takfir ideology, or foooling the opponents by sloughing off your beard, chastity, avoidance of booze ect to 'fit in' is really unheard of in Christian, Jewish or Hindu life. There is no comparison I can think of. I'll defer to Mr. Spencer or Hugh, but I see no connection or comparison, only contrasts.
So this is one of the dangers--the one percent factor--or more or less, but 19 guys can do a lot of damage, cant' they?
MP: or, in other words, the "moderates" have a life, which is why they focus recruiting efforts on the young, the prison population and even panhandlers in the street.
Ala-sux: after all is said and done, remember that it was Muslims (primarily Iranian women who fled the Islamic Republic) who succeeded in stopping Sharia courts, so no, they don't always win. And I think the "Ontario 17s'" respective legalists will have a tough time convincing any but the most demented judge that the accuseds wanted all that ammonium nitrate to fertilize farms, golf courses or whatever. So, let CAIR-Canada, the Canadian Islamic Congress, Aly Hindy, Ms. Khadr, etc., make all the PR appearances they want. Slowly, with the exception of the most boneheaded PC types like Jack Layton or David Miller, it's becoming obvious to most of us that there really is a problem with Islam. I suspect that although Toronto's top cop takes the "hijacked by extremists" position publicly, it's not necessarily what he thinks privately.
Expatica has another article about immigration to the Netherlands. It leads me to believe they have clamped down on Muslim immigration, but there might be other categories of new residents not included in these figures:
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?channel_id=1&story_id=29886
One thing we should realized is this in by no means a fast war against Jihad.
It will take many years.
I think bin Laden correctly assumes that if he can bankrup the west he can win. Similarly, what we need to do, especially the US is isolate, innoculate and outlast the virus of Islam/Jihad.
If we slowly but surely dry up the funds to the mid-east countries they will eventually lose their ability to wage Jihad. Stop buying their oil.
Elect western leaders who admit to a war on Jihad and not a war on an abstract concept like "Terror"
In time, with a policy of isolation things will change like they did with Vietnam who is now asking its old enemy USA to come back and use its ports for some good old American green.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-rumsfeld6jun06,1,5015648.story?coll=la-news-a_section
You know, I am seriously considering pretending to convert to islam just to became a spy. All I need to do is go to a mosque pretend to be disillusioned with western values, and let them take me under their wing.
It wouldn't be long before I would become privy to demagoguery, and then to plans of terrorism.
"Dutch mosque" is as unpleasant a conjunction of words as "Brain tumor", to my mind.
Mosques belong where freedom is scorned.
Not as dragon's teeth sown in the West.
Back to Mecca to reform Islam!
Repatriate the alien militants.
Now.
Back in the 60's there was a saying, "What if they had a war and nobody came?".
It is ridiculous to treat so-called "moderate" Muslims in the west as if they have no choice whatsoever whether or not to continue to frequent these mosques where "extremist" ideas are taught. They can vote with their feet. Stop going to any mosque that preaches extremist ideas. What's so hard about that? The imam says something offensive and you get up and walk the hell out.
If this really is "a tiny minority of extremists hijacking Islam" then all those moderates will stop showing up at mosques that preach hatred and jihad. It's really that simple. And if they don't stop going there - then they are indicating by that simple, non-forced choice (in western societies at present there is still a choice on these matters) that they are the enemy, and that they are at war with the host societies who have so generously taken them in.
"Radicals winning in Dutch mosques, government warns"
The verb tense is wrong and the headline is muddled. Should read:
"Radicals won in Dutch mosques, government in the process of noticing."
or better yet
"Islam won when the Dutch allowed Muslims in. Government desperately trying to figure out what to do now."
"I am seriously considering pretending to convert to islam just to became a spy. All I need to do is go to a mosque pretend to be disillusioned with western values, and let them take me under their wing."
All you'd need to do is parrot some Michael Moore, or Noam Chomsky, or Cindy Sheehan -- or even John Kerry and John Dean -- hell, these days, even parroting Brian Williams and Oprah would make the imams think you hate the West.
Theressomethingaboutislam:
Please take great care if you carry out that plan. Remember about apostates! Wear a disguise and use a false name and address, so that your 'real self' can continue unaffected.
BTW, I received this note from Google after I recently wrote my concerns about censorship:
“Thank you for your note. We apologize for our delayed response. It is Google's policy not to censor web search results. However, in response to local laws, regulations, or policies, we may do so. When we remove search results for these reasons, we display a notice on our search results pages. Please note that for some older removals (before March 2005), we may not show a notice at this time.
We searched for the site you mention and found that this site currently appears in our search results. To see this search, please visit the following link:
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"I am seriously considering pretending to convert to islam just to became a spy."
All you need to do is put on a full burka. Rather convenient don't you think?
Nonsense.
There IS NO "Radical, militant, fundamentalist or extremist" Islam.
There is ONLY Islam. None of it fits into our society. None of it is compatible with our values.
All of it is very threatening, dangerous and unpleasant for infidels and our way of life.
here is one answer to the "Dutch Qustion" GET RID OF THE MOSQUES! simple answer to a very dumb question!
"You know, I am seriously considering pretending to convert to islam just to became a spy. All I need to do is go to a mosque pretend to be disillusioned with western values, and let them take me under their wing.
It wouldn't be long before I would become privy to demagoguery, and then to plans of terrorism. :
___
Yeah real smart Idea! I've read the PAL and Iraqi suicide bombers don't even know they are going to drive that truck into a cafe until the very day you local lmman tells you to. Just to make sure your "faith" doesnt waiver under stress they are sure to to have an AK with them and hand-cuff you to the wheel.
Okay, here's the million dollar question...
Should the English speaking world go to the rescue of continental Europe again when the Islamic facsist take over, given that Europe welcomed then with open arms?
And the $64,000 question (consolation prize) is...
Which European nation will fall first?, Sweden?, Netherlands?,...
"All you'd need to do is parrot some ... John Dean."
Surely you meant Howard Dean? John Dean was the one who said there was "a cancer growing on the presidency" to Richard Nixon...
Godefroi,
The Dutch have always been known for common sense and honesty, so that doesn't surprise me at all
Should the English speaking world go to the rescue of continental Europe again when the Islamic facsist take over, given that Europe welcomed then with open arms?
pretty much gunna have to,or they will end up over here next.But this time take over for them,and make it all America,or we could wait till they all amass in Europe,and nuke half of the mo's.
Which European nation will fall first?, Sweden?, Netherlands?,...France?spain?
Ozi_bloke: "Okay, here's the million dollar question...
Should the English speaking world go to the rescue of continental Europe again when the Islamic facsist take over, given that Europe welcomed then with open arms?"
Yes. I think we have to. Because if Europe goes, there goes our history, not to mention the fact that the US and Australia would be left all alone (and how long could they hold out?). Only this time I would insist that the victors take control of the educational system.
Remkes said. Both he and his colleague said the ideological influences exerted by radical Muslims was a cause for concern.
+++++++++++
do they mean: the radical mos want to murder all infidels that will not convert to islam???????????
The dutch survived the nazi's.
Do you think they will survive islam if they do not take the fight to islam????????
Texican,
they survived the Nazis for 4.5 years but they didn't liberate themselves
Patriot4 & Caroline,
Good responses but wrong answer. Sorry, you don't get the $1M, but I'll award you both a cosolation prize which is a two week all expenses paid holiday to an Islamic paradise of your choice.
Caroline, don't forget to pack your holiday Burqah - you know, the one with all those colourful Hawaiian prints.
Happy travels.
Followers of radical Islam have successfully used the internet and lectures to win over more followers and gain control of moderate mosques, Remkes said. Both he and his colleague said the ideological influences exerted by radical Muslims was a cause for concern
From above
Well if islam is so peaceful how can this happen wouldn't you think that these other mulsums would just throw them out??
So what is being said here is that mulsums who want to be islamic terrorist are the true religion of islam?
OR the modrate would just kick these others to the curb?
The Duch people had better get over being called names and throw these monsters out of their county kicking and scream if need be to save themselves!
I don't think being called a name is as bad as having your family killed or having your head cut off??
NO this shows me there aint no mulsums worth saving they wount even save themselfs when they canNO WONDER THERE ARE SO MANY MONSTERS WHO RULE MULSUM COUNTRIES
Yeah real smart Idea! I've read the PAL and Iraqi suicide bombers don't even know they are going to drive that truck into a cafe until the very day you local lmman tells you to. Just to make sure your "faith" doesnt waiver under stress they are sure to to have an AK with them and hand-cuff you to the wheel
Huh? Have you not been reading the news? Remember those 17 + muslim kids who were chatting up a storm about their plans to blow up half of Canada? No handcuffs there. This is Canada, not Palestine. If such plans could be read in internet chat rooms, just imagine what you can listen to in a back room of a mosque.
jsla, I meant Howard Dean; but now that you mention it, John Dean is part of the same anti-American nebula:
He is the author, most recently, of “Worse than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush.”
I doubt that John Dean indicts GW Bush for the only pertinent reasons -- the Hugh Fitzgerald reasons. It's likely John Dean indicts GW Bush mostly for all the wrong reasons.
One down - many more to go
From bbc
Zarqawi killed in Iraq air raid
?
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi appeared in a video earlier this year
Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has announced that militant leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been killed.
"Today we have managed to put an end to Zarqawi," Mr Maliki said, sparking sustained applause.
The Jordanian-born leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq was considered the figurehead of the Sunni insurgency. Reports say he was killed in an air raid near Baquba.
Al-Qaeda in Iraq has been blamed for scores of bombings that have killed hundreds of Shias and US forces.
The head of US-led forces in Iraq, General George Casey, said Zarqawi's body was identified through fingerprints and facial recognition.
?? This is a message to those who chose the path of violence to change their direction before it is too late ?
Nouri Maliki
Iraqi prime minister
Zarqawi has also been accused of leading the rash of kidnappings and beheadings of foreign workers.
Unconfirmed reports suggested he was seen on one video posted on the internet personally cutting off the head of one hostage.
Mr Maliki said intelligence from Iraqi people had helped track down Zarqawi, who had a $25m price on his head.
"What happened today is a result of co-operation for which we have been asking from our masses and the citizens of our country," he said.
The prime minister urged Iraqis to join politcal dialogue rather than violence, vowing to "carry on on the same path... by killing all the terrorists".
The BBC's Ian Pannell in Baghdad says this will be seen as a major victory for the new Iraqi government and US forces but it remains to be seen what effect, if any, it has on the ongoing violence and death rate in the country.