Russia Outlaws Two Islamic Groups

Genius!

Now slap your palm on your forehead and say why didnt we think of doing that!

Maybe if we did the same thing all terrorists would be afraid of entering our country and would leave us alone. I am absolutely sure that they would observe our edict, especially since they are so moral that they could never violate a law or edict.

They merely change names and resurface again. This also happened in India. lashkar-e-taiba was banned so it merely switched its name to harkat-el-something and was back in the game again. Outlawing ain't the solution. Maybe the solution lies in acting on iran.

This is the result of hate-sites like JW/DW!!

You see, yesterday the phantom of Jihad Watch, the elusive Hugh Fitzgerald, a fanatical Islamophobe, posted some anti-Islamic propaganda on 'Dhimmi Watch' - In Russian!

On DW, another hate site that should have been banned long ago! As a result, Russian muslims suffer!

We can't have that! Our inalienable rights are under threat! We are enraged! We are humiliated! This is oppression!

Kill the infidels! Kill the Jews! Down with America! Down with Israel!
Your kids will be muslims! Annihilate those who insult the prophet!

Is someone at the State Department getting this to the President and the rest of his Cabinet at the White House.

Shiek;

I hope that you're not serious. Not that I don't have a sense of humor. I love a good joke just like the next guy. But your post has me concerned.
America is the reason that you are able to go on line in the first place. The Jews can take care of themselves. Just ask Egypt. As for us "infidels." I say this from the bottom of my heart,

UP YOURS!!! And may the Prophet (may he be damned) eat a pork chop sandwich!!!

Don't Tread on Me, Islamofeces!!

Resentment of the United States, and the conspiracy theories that surround that view, are absurd and dangerous, but they get in the way of what should, and could, be a natural alliance (or at least an alliance should be more natural with the United States, which unlike either Islamic forces, or China, has no claims on the lands now possessed by Russia).

All kinds of things feed into this. The old Communists never ceased to see America as the enemy. The Slavophils paint the American bombing of the Serbs as if it were some vaguely anti-Russian act, with vague appeals to the outrage in Russia over the treatment of fellow Slavs when the Turks tried to suppress the South Slavs with the Bulgarian massacres of 1875-1878. The antisemites, the conspiracy theorists par excellence, of course mutter darkly about "neoconservatives" and the attempt to settle scores with Russia -- for some in Russia, the "bey zhidov, spasi Roissiyu" sentiment is always april-fresh. If the Russians wish to hold onto the Caucasus and the south, they might begin by being far more solicitous of Georgia and Armenia, the two Christian enclaves.

Start with the first. Stop boycotting Georgian wines, an important source of income for that land of tamadas. Help the Georgians. And help the Armenians, who are poor, who deserve more aid from outside, and whose country is besieged or threatened by Muslim states on many sides.

And stop seeing the United States as a menace. The faults of the American government are faults of ignorance, naivete, stupidity, but the notion that the Americans are working night and day to undermine Russia is complete nonsense.

When the Russian government continues to help the Islamic Republic of Iran, whose rulers and supporters exhibit the same fanatic rage, as those who beat Griboyedov to death, and prompted by the same view of women and Infidels, and if they could, would certainly encourage not only slamizing or re-islamizing efforts in southern Russia and in the five stans, but would gladly see all of Russia succumb, through Da'wa and demographic conquest, to Islam, Islam, Islam.

Was it for the mess we see now -- that blend of KGB apparatchiki and the coarse new breed biznesmeny i biznesmenki, that Sakharov strived, and for which Galanskov died?

Russians have a right to deplore the effect, on the transition, such as it has been, from Communism to the crony Capitalism that was the result of all kinds of things, including all that advice heaped on Russia by so many Wesetern busybodies, who knew nothing of Russia but were full of big ideas, and of whom Jeffrey "World's Greatest Authority" Sachs is an exemplar. But the Americans are not rubbing their hands in glee over the loss of Soviet (Russian) power. It was a drunken Yeltsin who gave away so much overnight, when such a giveaway was by no means inevitable. The Americans had nothing to do wtih it.

There are all sorts of problems for Russia. Islam, Da'wa and demographic conquest, and not the United States, presents the biggest problem. Attempting to deal with that and at the same time to help or protect Iran, is madness. It is even greater madness than the American effort to create a Light Unto the Muslim Nations in Iraq. Surely more than a handful of Russain commentators -- e.g., Pavel Felgengauer -- can see that?

Don't worry Ironman, Sheik rocks. Sheik, could I have links of your songs please. This time I shall add them to favourites.

Nuts! I thought they were going to say the two groups were the "Sunnis" and the "Shi'ites".

Ah well, as the Chinese say, a journey of a thousand miles...

Russia, in all its various reincarnations and permutations, has a history of making fatefully tragic alliances, the one with Nazi Germany in the rape of Poland being perhaps the most tragic.

Now they are arming the new "Aryans" in Iran, hoping to reap strategic and financial advantages.

Remember the old adage, "When one lies down with dogs, one rises with flees."

Two down, and the rest to go. Seems the world remembers Beslan better than Putin does.

Dear Hugh,

what is wrong with being a Slavophile? It need not necessarily be Antiamerican, I can assure you of it. (Im Slavophile and a great admirer of USA, and I guess I cannot be the only one in the world).

As a Serbian travelling often to Russia, my impression is that Russians having some decission power don´t care much or at all that Serbs have been bombed by USA. They have other problems. Back in those days I have even read mainstream articles in Russian media, complaining about the "unruly" Serbs who make it more difficult for Russia to join the "European house" (whatever this means), because it will be associated with Serbs who, they believe, are not liked among those fine minds.

Historically, Russia seldom helped the Serbian state, this is a mythos, widespread in the West. On the contrary, the Soviet Union was the major disseminator of the "Serbian-hegemony-is-a-Great-Danger" propaganda, which simply was a politically correct form of the older "Serbien-muß-sterbien" propaganda.

And I have seldom met Russians with Antiamerican attitudes, on the contrary, - most of them wish a true partnership with USA, and see the dangers of Islam, but they wish this partnerships also where it it suits what they perceive as their interests. Russia wants to be recognized and respected as the Eastern branch of the Western civilization and Russians are sick and tired of Western double criteria and portraying Chechen as "freedom fighters". (No doubt, Russian policy towards Iran is a huge disservice to the world, but it applies to EU that is promoting Iran using lot of media propaganda as well). My impression is that Antiamericanism is more widely spread and stronger/deaper in the EU (I live in Germany), than in Russia. If the USA had had shown half of the support and friendliness to Russia it had given to Western Europe, it would have received much more positive feedback from there than it ever will from the EU.

Don´t you think that indeed Ortodox Christians including also Ortodox Slavs are often excluded from the concept of Western civilisation by the West? And that this exclusion and the way how it is expressed in many aspects resembles Antisemitism (the word "Slavophile" often being used in this context to describe barbarian, primitive, poor, irredeemable, insane, just like the word "Jude" in the past)? And that this issue need to be put on the agenda in the West, also for its own sake?

On my recent trip to USA I was surprised how many Americans still think in the categories of the Cold War and despise Russia (as such) and I have asked myself if this attitude is not somehow older than the Cold War. When I asked "Don´t you think USA and Russia are part of the same civilization and sitting in the same boat?" , most people were just gazing at me with an expression of complete confusion (most of them thought me to be a German because I was in German company, so I guess they were saying what they really thought of Russia). This is definitely not the case in Russia, at least my experience is different.

Best regards, Serbian girl

US_infidel:Putin is not stupid, just greedy.

And that will probably get him killed.
Putin appears to be very much in love with himself. I wonder how often he looks in the mirror? On top of the counrys political dung heap, probably the second most powerful man on Earth, behind Bush ( due to the large numbers of nukes), international prestige, when Putin talks everyone listens, a lavish lifestyle, and a black belt. And cute as a bugs ear. Oh how wonderful I am...What he has in common with Islam, is gross materialism. They both want it all. That leads to conflict because they both cant have it all. But whats new? The NWO, one world gov, China, Venezuela, and a tribe of Pigmys in the congo want it all too.
As long as the world follows the path of gross materialsm there is no end of conflict. The best people like Putin, Bush, and the rest can do is grab what they can while the grabbins good.
Because of the fatal attraction of gross materialism millions upon millions of people have been murdered, tortured, robbed and cheated. Bush and Putin are not immune to this, thats why they have guards and armys to protect them. They are standouts in the field and become targets. Their wars are based on this...The rich fighting the very rich, the object of which, is more riches. The materialism of muslims is slightly different, they only want to get into Paradise, and will kill anyone to get there. Islam itself wants it all as well, because Allah created everything for muslims, so it all already belongs to them. They only need to reclaim it or take it by force.
No matter how you cut it, this is a formula for ruin and death for many, and a few more bucks
for Putin, Bush, various Imams and Ayatollahs and the rest of the elite in general, if they can survive the CHAOS they are causing...

A blanket ban on Islam all together would be the next move, would it not?
Where off to see the wizard, the wonderfull wizard of OZ!

Sheikh

I didn't find the lyrics of the "Music for the Global Anti-Jihad" that you had here

Can you make the lyrics of that half-hour marathon available sometime? With enough good songs, like that, Winds of Jihad, I think I can fill a CD.

Serbian-girl

I don't know that Americans have an anti-Russian attitude - even during the Cold War, Americans seemed to distinguish between the Russian people vs the Soviet regime. Some of what you may have encountered may be due to the fact that it's hard to tell Putin apart from the old CPSU, what with his KGB background, and his alliance with Vlad Zhirnovsky hasn't helped things. But I do wish the West would stop backing Kosovo, Bosnia and Chechnya, while the Russians stop backing Iran and Syria (something which is a greater threat to Israel than the West, and Israel hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, been as gratuitiously anti-Serb and anti-Russian as the West has been).

Ironman

Anyone who has read Sheikh long enough and followed his music (I prefer his rap to the Snoop Doggy Doggs anyday) knows where he is coming from. You need to read the sarcasm in his posts - it kills the punchline if he has to spell it out.

One more question - is the Islamic Jihad group that Russia banned the same as the one headquartered in Damascus? How many Islamic Jihad's are there worldwide by that name (don't count things like Laskkar Jihad, et al)?

Thank you for clearing that up for me Infidel and Arjun.
I figured that Shiek was being sarcastic. But in light of how so many tend to play friends with us, I had to cover myself until certain. I've read many of Shieks posts and feared the worst after reading this one. The last thing we need is another "rat in the house."
I apologize Shiek for my misunderstanding of your post.

Arjun

Apart from the link I provided above on terrorists-suck.org, check out islamcomicbook.com in the lyrics section. Only thing it's missing are the lyrics for the Global Anti-Jihad.

Just trying to get your attention, Ironman! (hahaha)

(Sarc)

From Hong Kong this time:

Of course, what I really meant is that groups like Hizb-ut-Tahrir & Islamic jihad and all other organization of Islamic enemy agents should have been banned long ago. Very difficult to do since they are always quick to re-organize under different names, so we should stop allowing ME-imams into our countries and close the mosques & madrassahs. The idea that our tax-money pays for sedition and subversion is revolting...

From an above posting:

"...I was surprised how many Americans still think in the categories of the Cold War and despise Russia (as such) and I have asked myself if this attitude is not somehow older than the Cold War..."

Good point!

There is no reason for animosity between Russia and the US, but every reason for closer ties and cooperation. This administration has done nothing to improve US-Russian relations, and it seems the current Russian Czar is also not on the same wavelength. What a shame, what a waste!

The songs can be found here, go into 'Lyrics & more" and you'll find "My Allah" & 'the Shoebomber"

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=Am.ItCJzRjr6fOvr6J99LPVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2czNiMWdlBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNjA5Xzc3/SIG=11ec21m89/EXP=1136591277/**http%3a//islamcomicbook.com/

Historically, Russia seldom helped the Serbian state, this is a mythos, widespread in the West. On the contrary, the Soviet Union was the major disseminator of the "Serbian-hegemony-is-a-Great-Danger" propaganda, which simply was a politically correct form of the older "Serbien-muß-sterbien" propaganda.

I re-read your post, and the above comment stuck out. While I don't remember too much detail about the history of Europe (something I read about some 20 years ago), I do recall WWI spreading because of Russia coming to the aid of Serbia against Austria-Hungary. I don't think it reflects too well on the Serbs to have forgotten this, since the result for the House of Romanov was the accelaration of its ouster by the Mensheviks.

On your second point above, it's true that the Soviets didn't like Yugoslavia dissenting, and refusing to be a part of the Warsaw Pact, and instead opting for the Non-Aligned Movement. But that's more of an intra-Communist ideological conflict between Stalin and Tito (similar to the later rivalry between Krushchev and Mao), rather than an intra-ethnic rivalry between Russians and Serbs.

I tend to agree with your other point that if the US had chosen to be friendly with Russia, and just given Old Europe the cold shoulder, it would be far better off in terms of support against Iran. Somehow, I doubt that the current administration can recognize who's an ally and who isn't.

Funny thing is, most Russians I've ever met, usually the older ones, distrust their own government more than ours. Healthy paranoia over seventy years of oppressive communism isn't shaken off over night. Added to this, and an ex-KGB guy running their country, many Russians believe its the same government under a new name. I know one or two guys who sincerely believe that their names are still on secret lists.

Between old-line apparatchiks and Mafiya heavyweights running around, Russians have enough to deal with without worrying about Americans who tend to concern themselves more with Mexican illegals, their cell-phone bills, and who's on 'American Idol'.

Putin is REAL strong leader, for better or worse, that's why he is respected and feared by Muslims.
Posted by: US_infidel at June 2, 2006 11:52 AM
+++++++++

and what did Putin do after Belsan?????

nothing...................

"what is wrong with being a Slavophile?"
-- from a posting above

I was using the word in a narrow, technical sense -- meaing the Slavophils of Russia, for whom Western Europe had little or nothiing to offer, and Russia would be the Third Rome, with a special destiny, and so on. Dostoyevsky, not Tolstoy. Pushkin, the greatest Russian writer, was no Slavophil even if a Russian patriot (see "Klevetnikam Rossii"). He was a product of Europe; he was an educated European. He read Parny and Chenier, Sterne and Shakespeare, Rousseau and Byron. He didn't simplyu peek through the okno or rather vasisdas chto Peter the Great prorubil -- no, Pushkin, in his mind at least, crossed the border of Russia and walked right into Western Europe. Solzhenitsyn was or has given a whiff in the past of being a Slavophil. Sakharov, on the other hand, was a Russian patriot, who knew what was best about Russia, and also an admirer of the West which he believe Russia would do well in many ways to emulate. I like the way Pushkin and Sakharov expressed their affection for, and loyalty to, Russia.

How about you?

Is someone at the State Department getting this to the President and the rest of his Cabinet at the White House.

Yes, Condi will invite CAIR to Iftar dinner to tell them: 'Oh, we know the benevolence in the heart of Islam.'.. followed by Dubya 'Izlum is a Religion of Peace'.

That is State Department and White House for you.

Hugh mentioned the Bulgarian massacres of 1875-1878, which by a series of events led, in 1879 to a popular music hall song, with the chorus: 'the Russians shall not have Constantinople' and added the word jingoism to the language. Disraeli supported the Turks but Gladstone had different ideas and in a speech at Blackheath in 1876 came up with the following great purple pasage:

"Let the Turks now carry away their abuses, in the only possible manner, namely, by carrying off themselves. Their Zaptiehs and their Mudirs, their Blmhashis and Yuzbashis, their Kaimakams and their Pashas, one and all, bag and baggage, shall, I hope, clear out from the province that they have desolated and profaned. This thorough riddance, this most blessed deliverance, is the only reparation we can make to those heaps and heaps of dead, the violated purity alike of matron and of maiden and of child; to the civilization which has been affronted and shamed; to the laws of God, or, if you like, of Allah; to the moral sense of mankind at large. There is not a criminal in an European jail, there is not a criminal in the South Sea Islands, whose indignation would not rise and over-boil at the recital of that which has been done, which has too late been examined, but which remains unavenged, which has left behind all the foul and all the fierce passions which produced it and which may again spring up in another murderous harvest from the soil soaked and reeking with blood and in the air tainted with every imaginable deed of crime and shame. That such things should be done once is a damning disgrace to the portion of our race which did them; that the door should be left open to the ever so barely possible repetition would spread that shame over the world."

Hugh,

While I agree with most of what you wrote about Russia, Serbian girl is right about your misreading of the Slavophiles. Russia must look to its own past and its solid Orthodox traditions if she is to survive. If this means a total rejection of Westernization then so be it.

Solzhenitzen NOT Sakharov is the ideal Russian patriot. Russia is collapsing precisely because it replaced the totalitarian decadence of Marxism with the corrupt decadence of the West. Putin's problem is that he is the heir of Yeltsin and his policies that sold Russia to the oligarchs.

Perhaps after Putin, Russia may elect someone that can make Russia strong again and unite Russia, Ukraine, Belorus, and Kazakstan into an Orthodox Slavic Union against the Muslims. Perhaps the election of someone like Dmitry Rogozin could be a first step. One of the best analysts on Russia as well as the rest of Orthodox civilization is Srdja Trifkovic. Perhaps you might want to consult with him on this issue.

Why let them organize to plot against you - right in your own country?

Truth is though that these groups will probably change their names to something else and continue their madness.

We should just deport them to Saudi Arabia – Somewhere along the way Saudi Arabia is going to have to take responsibility for all this madness.

Hugh,

I don´t see this sharp opposition between "European" and "Russian" that you see, this is all. Yes, it is true, most of those Slavophiles you´re refering to, inclusive Dostoyevski (if I understood your post well, perhaps I didn´t ), were critical of Western Europe (Roman Chatolic Church) , but the question is why, and what was/is the political position of their citicizm / rejection. I see their political position as European in its core. (Also, don´t forget that Dostoyevsky spend a great deal of his time and money in Baden Baden in Germany, so how can we speak about Western Europe having little or nothing to offer, - those were just words, he ment something else. Just like Jesus was a Jew and spoke as a Jew to Jews).
The theme of "Demons" , just to mention one of Dostoyevsky´s great novels, is the arrival in Russia of what on the first sight appears to be appealing, rational, secular ideas from Western Europe about social and political justice and about secular Russia´s rejection of God and her sacrifice to what later on turnes out to be demons. A profetic novel, or? Of course his faith in Christian Ortodoxy being able to resist and Russia becoming a Third Rome was naive, but fully understandable . Or, who knows, let´s see what happens in next 50 to 100 years with (rest)Europe. When I read "Demons" today I see them active in what is the official ideology of EU today, indoctrinating/retarding generations of Europeans and turning Europe in Eurabia. I personally believe that not Russia but USA is the "Third Rome" i.e. this country will have the capacity to resist and defend its country and nation and we Europeans will be happy to move there one day (and will probably have the similar role in in USA that all the Eastern intellectuals had in Western Europe after the fall of Constantinople) .
Regarding Pushkin: Let´s compare his role in Russian literature / culture with the one Heinrich Heine had in Germany. And let´s answer the question which nation has emulated better the legacy of their great and often uneasy sons: Russia or Germany? Both were provocative, telling uneasy thruths. What am I trying to say? I believe that Russians (yes, including also those peeking through okno - Hugh this is just a folklore, nothing to be honestly worried about) emulated "Europe" far better than many nations in the middle of Europe, and this under far more difficult circumstances.
Infidel Pride, I´ll answer you some other time, but in short: The "Serbian-Hegemonism-is-such-a-grat-danger" propaganda started much earlier than 1948, it started in the 20es alrady.

Regards, Serbian girl