Of course these people should be called Muslims. Even if they aren't orthodox Sunnis, they have clearly been inspired by the warfare against unbelievers mandated by the Qur'an. From the Telegraph, with thanks to Olivia:
The alleged ringleader of a terrorist cell that planned to blow up the Sears Tower in Chicago was an adherent of an obscure black Islamist sect that was first investigated by America's Federal Bureau of Investigation in the 1950s, relatives said yesterday.According to an FBI indictment, Narseal Batiste, 32, wanted to build an "Islamic army" to "wage war against the United States government" and provide "material support to al-Qaeda". He and the six other accused lived in Miami.
Relatives said that Batiste, described as a "Moses-like" figure who roamed his neighbourhood wearing a robe and carrying a crooked wooden cane as he recruited young men, based his teachings on those of the Moorish Science Temple of America.Founded in New Jersey in 1913, the basic tenet of Moorish Science is that all black people are born as Muslims and are descended from the Moors, a nomadic North African tribe. In the 1950s, the FBI tried to infiltrate the Moorish Science Church's activities, believing it to be involved in disseminating anti-American propaganda, but the investigation proved inconclusive and was dropped.
Batiste is said to have called his branch of Moorish Science the "Seas of David". His followers wore uniforms bearing a Star of David, and met for Bible study and martial arts practice in a Haitian section of Miami....
Batiste was said to have talked about blowing up the Sears Tower and the FBI headquarters in Miami.
Another adherent of Moorish Science was Clement Rodney Hampton-El, who was convicted in 1995 of taking part in a failed plot to blow up New York city tunnels and landmarks with truck bombs.
It is doubtful that CAIR (America's largest civil liberties group that doesen't care about the civil liberties of non-muslims in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries) will tell the media that Muslims in Saudi Arabia are not real Muslims because they are not tolerant of Hindus, Buddhists, Christians or Jews there. However, CAIR might do that after non-Muslims in America demand that Muslims in the US be given the same civil liberties that religious minorities have in Saudi Arabia. However, that would mean that Muslims in America would not even have dhimmi status.
On another issue, I think CAIR should be very concerned about the Islamaphobia in Darfur. In fact, people should help CAIR by printing bumper stickers that say STOP THE ISLAMAPHOBIA IN DARFUR. CAIR will appreciate that.
Funny, he doesn't look Moorish.
These guys are an insult to Christianity and Judaism, hiding behind some elements of these REAL faiths.
No one with a Judeao-Christian background would contemplate all out war against their own country - surely not.
I have said it before and I will say it again:
WHY do African Americans want to be muslims when more likely than not their ancestors were brought to the US by muslim slave traders.
Are these people thick or something?
Yes,,it is a silly question.
I hope the judicial system makes an example of them; I hope the people who are not "awake" to islam will be woken up.
Suggested bumper sticker:
GIVE MUSLIMS CIVIL LIBERIES THEY GIVE TO NON-MUSLIMS IN SAUDI ARABIA.
Well ia, how's this for an explaination?
This is also evidence that Islam is a cult, because if you examine the falsehoods that are being espoused by the Moorish Science Temple of America (i.e. Moors are black North Africans, Othello was a black, etc.), you are left with only a few steps in the other direction to closely examine the many holes in the false prophet Muhammad's life-teachings and biography, and ultimately, you will come to the same conclusion about Islam as you would the Moorish Science Temple.
I have recently given serious thought to going beyond the many comparisons that have been done so well between Fascism and Islam. I believe we should do a careful study of what exactly constitutes a cult and see if we can prove in a systematic, scientific-like way that Islam is indeed not even worthy of the title of religion.
(I would also not hesitate to call the Church of Scientology a cult. I have had personal encounters with some of their representatives, and I know they are dealing in real estate monopolization, idol creation and false science.Regardless, Scientologists don't pose a threat to my well-being (yet) so I'll let them stay on the tax-free roll call for now.)
It comes down to this question: "What constitutes a true religion and what constitutes a cult?"
For example, if all true religions are, say, bound by the main tenant of helping spread peaceful co-existence amongst mankind, then Islam is already off the list.
I still say George "Seinfeld" Costanza was right.
They're MOOPS, not "Moors".
MOOPS!
FoeHammer,
I like your posts and your website very much.
"Cult" is a bogus category. Non-mainstream religious outlooks are not illegitimate. They are new or unfamiliar, and people whose definitions are very rigid in these things find them unnerving. And they often have a weird, overly aggressive knee-jerk response against them. (Try starting a new religious outlook sometime, and find out.)
We rely on freedom of religion and conscience, to preserve our natural rights in our marvelous free society.
But to address the spirit of your question, a religion (or cult, if inclined to delegitimize it) is a very broad category which may include faith assumptions, values, and often individual and/or community lifestyle choices following from those values.
We are "watching" islam here with such grave concern because it contains its military-political mass movement, quite apart from certain worship features. We, as free people, believe in personal worship choices. Do whatever works for you in that part of life, we feel (long as you don't harm others). We don't care what you call your god or your place of worship. It's a private choice. On the other hand, we are "watching" a supremacist political movement which is concerned not just with it's members' beliefs, values, or lifestyles, but with EVERYONE ELSE'S also. Far from respecting others' freedoms, it teaches it's follower's that EVERYONE ELSE has no rights, is to be conquered, etc, etc.
I'm put off by the casual invocation of "cult" here at, as if the handful of existing religious outlooks have a permanent monopoly on legitimacy.
Unlike muslims, I feel free to modify my religious outlook, and am not constrained to choosing from those that are currently institutionalized. (Obviously, I wouldn't last long in a muslim society.)
Cheers,
WestwardHo
Narseal Batiste wanted to build an "Islamic army"
I don't care if it is not politically correct to admit it but the truth must be told.
The Islamic religion played a part in this terrorist plot.
Naseal and his fellow terrosrists were Muslims.
No big surprise that they viewed U.S. citizens as devils and wanted to spread Islam by violent means.
WestwardHo,
Thanks for the compliment.
To address your concern, let me clarify what "cult" constitutes and why it is important to differentiate.
The number one sign of a cult is how its members are treated, attracted and, above all, maintained as members of the cult. You've heard of all those 60's cults, communes, etc. You've heard of the Jonestown Massacre*. Well, this is when something goes beyond religion and becomes brainwashing.
* http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/
I'm no expert on the "cult" yet, mainly because I have not had the time to really investigate it, but I know enough that I hold firm on my belief that we need to categorically prove or disprove that Islam is a religion. However, that said, even if Islam ends up falling into the realm of "religion" after any real analysis, I still know in my heart and mind that it is a false one.
This is perhaps apples and oranges to some people, but in a war that is continually based on propaganda as much as the sword, I think that it's important that we come at the enemy from every possible angle. Proving that Islam is a cult would have consequences. I'm sure of it. The predictable increase in apostacy could not be a bad thing.
If anyone wants to run with the baton I've held out, please go for it.
I'm wondering if "Seas of David" isn't actually "Seeds of David". I recall the DC Snipers used some words from rap/hiphop culture in their communication, and I came across this:
as well as this cryptic reference from 2001:To be honest, as much as I hate to say it, I think CAIR has a point here. From where I sit, let's move past the obvious kooks and spend some more time on mainstream Islamic ideolology. The kooks just distract from the main argument that Islam is a violent, totalitarian ideology masquerading as a religion. Mainstream Islam must be confronted and destroyed. Then we can spend time talking about the obvious kooks.