Those arrested are "Muslims, but not Arabs." It's nice to see the mainstream media actually making this elementary distinction, which might begin to dispel the calumny that the anti-jihad resistance is "racism." "Terrorism raids sweep Toronto," from CBC News, with thanks to Ter:
Police across the Greater Toronto Area launched counterterrorism raids yesterday, arresting at least eight people in a roundup expected to continue overnight and beyond....The ethnicity of the group was not clear. A well- placed police source said they are Muslims, but not Arabs, and unconnected to anti-terrorism raids that occurred simultaneously in Britain yesterday.
Quoting anonymous sources, CBC said the targets of the raid are suspected of connections with al-Qaeda. A Canadian Press report said the arrests stemmed from a plot involving explosives.
While the intended target is unclear, the plan was to detonate an explosive device in Ontario, a source who asked not to be named told Canadian Press. “That's the tool of choice for anybody who wants to cause damage.”...
A source in Pickering said that during the day, heavily armed tactical officers were seen near a local mosque that serves about 1,000 families in the area. But a mosque trustee said he did not know of any police raids in the vicinity. He was at the mosque for 3 p.m. prayers and nothing seemed amiss, he said. With reports from Jeff Sallot and
Two weeks ago a report was made about men filming the Keele Subway station that is right near my place, prior to the filming of the subway trains and station I reported a unmarked Cargo van that had two men in plain clothes but had Emergency neon green vests inside along with a double barrel shotgun I saw when the back door slid open . The Van was near the same Keele Station and just about a week ago I saw another man with a digital camera watching trains between Keele and Dundas where they are exposed for half a block because of a dip in the land where the tunnel runs above ground.
I took the Plate # and colour , then just as a Police car came around the Van drove off slowly and I gave the Cops the info and they called in a check and drove off to follow them.
I waiting for CAIR-Canada to give their usual speech about "Innocent until proven guilty" and then once these idiots confess and praise Allah CAIR will then say that "These aren't true Muslims" .
The rants are wearing thin and Hooper was on TV and already convicted the Marines in Iraq just from a news story , and he had the nerve to use past lies as to assert they must be guilty because of the pattern.
But Hooper still denies 9/11 was by 19 Muslims ,this after overwhelming evidence and 19 hijackers praising Allah and islam as Muslims on Jihad.
the Toronto area has a high concentration of Pakistanis as well as muslims from Somalie. There was a furor over the Pakistani family that the father ans sons faught with the Taliban and the son actually killed an American soldier. l myself and many others wrote to the ediorials to have that family deported back to PAkistan as they were illegals in Canada, and or sent to jail.. no stupid Cdn officials allowed them back to Cda and on our welfare and medical rolls. liberalism in Canada is corrupt. but people have voted out liberals, and there is already a change in the air!
CBC Radio this morning is reporting that the suspects were "upset because of the treatment of Muslims worldwide" -- not sure if this is CBCs spin or if this is an actual quote.
The National Post has some good information on the arrests and how Canadians have denied the problem -- up until now anyway. Will this wake us up?
Homegrown Jihadists
And how did they find these jihadis? By monitoring their use of the Internet:http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149285034044&call_pageid=976163513378&col=969048863474
Just heard the CBC News again -- over 400 police officers were involved in the raids and now 10 suspects have been arrested. One of the targets was the CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Service)offices near the CN Tower in Toronto. According to CBC, police say that the suspects are in their teens and their 20s and are (as I quoted in an earlier post)"upset over the treatment of Muslims worldwide."
It's interesting to listen to the CBC reports: no mention of Muslims except in the context of victims.
If you think that plotting to blow up government offices in busy downtown Toronto by young people raised in one of the best countries in the world seems a bit of an over-reaction, think again -- they were upset, you see.
Jen, l just read that article from the National Post, they keep repeating about how they were raised in Canada, normal kids, schools, good marks. blah blah.. what they have to do is connect the dots, like its the Koran stupid!
they are Muslims, but not Arabs
Thank You!
"...dispel the calumny that the anti-jihad resistance is "racism."
The more appropriate charge against those who demonstrate resistance to Islamist supremacism-intolerance at JW-DW and eleswhere is "reasonism."
It is truly Orwellian when people from societies (Saudi Arabia, etc.) that would never welcome immigrant non-Muslim Asians-Negro Africans-Europeans, etc. into their countries, nor allow equal religious rights to non-Muslims, demand from non-Muslims in the West and elsewhere that which they refuse others-and then accuse them of "racism" and bigotry.
The problems of reasonism and reasonphobia are growing problems.
"Today’s terrorists are suburban men who neighbours invariably describe as 'hard-working, respectable and British to the core'."
not quite to the core.
Latest breaking news details on this from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/03/canada.terror/index.html
Jen writes: "The National Post has some good information on the arrests and how Canadians have denied the problem -- up until now anyway."
Jen, I have tangled with left-wing (NDP) Canadians on Internet newsgroups for years. They constantly denied that terrorists would ever have a reason to attack Canada, because "unlike the U.S.A., Canada is not a threat to any other nation." Here are some of the pronouncements of one of my favorite NDP loons, one "Karen Gordon":
http://tinyurl.com/mguuc
http://tinyurl.com/lvn3w
Her bile is typical of NDP drivel.
The latest update now reports 17 people rounded up, 12 adults and 5 children.
Even with all our free Social programs and Education up to grade 12, the Mosques spew hatred to the point that they still want Canadians dead.
NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE
The RCMP has released the names of the 12 adults charged on terrorism-related offensives after last nights arrests in Toronto. The Young Offenders Act prevents the RCMP from revealing the names of minors charged.
Arrested and charged with offences under the Criminal Code of Canada are:
1. Fahim Ahmad, 21, of Robinstone Drive, Toronto, Ontario;
2. Zakaria Amara, 20, of Periwinkle Crescent, Mississauga, Ontario;
3. Asad Ansari, 21, of Rosehurst Drive, Mississauga, Ontario;
4. Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, of Lowville Heights, Mississauga, Ontario;
5. Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, of Montevideo Road, Mississauga, Ontario;
6. Mohammed Dirie, 22, Kingston, Ontario;
7. Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Kingston, Ontario;
8. Jahmaal James, 23, of Trudelle Street, Toronto, Ontario;
9. Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, of Stonehill Court, Toronto, Ontario;
10. Steven Vikash Chand alias Abdul Shakur, 25, of Treverton Drive, Toronto, Ontario;
11. Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21, of Robin Drive, Mississauga, Ontario;
12. Saad Khalid, 19, of Eclipse Avenue, Mississauga, Ontario.
ala-sux,
All the names are muslim. The 10th one Steven Vikash Chand alias abdul shakur. "Steven" is a Christian name. "Vikash Chand" is a Hindu name. What is this ?
"Terrorism is a dangerous ideology that knows no borders," said Luc Portelance, CSIS Assistant Director of Operations."
I commend them for capturing these terrorists, but this political correctness is so warped that this guy is calling terrorism an ideology.
"Terrorism is a dangerous ideology". Wow. Thanks for clearing that up for us, Luc.
Koran, 8:60 “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.”
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror(cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149285034960&call_pageid=976163513378&col=969048863474
17 terror suspects arrested in Toronto
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060603/ap_on_re_ca/canada_terrorism_arrests
"This group took steps to acquire three tons of
ammonium nitrate and other components necessary to create explosive devices," said assistant Royal Canadian Mounted Police commissioner Mike McDonell said.
McDonell said that is three times the amount used to blow up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
Of course they were going to use three tons of fertilizer to spread taqiyyah. After all, they are moderate Muslims, right?
(Want to bet dollars to donuts that more than one of them are named Mohammed?)
I just watched a CTV.ca news interview with Tarek Fatah from the MCC ( Muslim canadian congress) and he starts out by appearing to be glad these yahoo's were caught but then blames George Bush and the CIA for creating and funding Al-Qaeda that kills more Muslims then any of the victims.
He also repeated one of his lies from the MCC website which attacks the RCMP for Legally deporting 26 illegals , but because 19 of them were Sunni Muslims from Pakistan he hijacked the story and claimed it was Racial-profiling and Islamophobia.
Tarek also mentioned about "Backlash" against the peaceful Muslims in Canada, plus he did the usual denial by mentioning that they are "Alleged" to have been ploting terror and we should let the Courts prove their guilt in accordance with our Charter Of Rights.
He finished off with the typical defense used by abusers , he blamed the victims and asked what is Canada doing to young Muslims to make them want to murder civilians and admire Al-Qaeda.
The scary part was how he insisted Canada was safe because the US was the target and they wouldn't kill people here in Canada.
Whew....sure glad he said that, now I feel much better knowing they will only slaughter Canadians outside of Canada like they did on 9/11 .
Re : Terrorism is a dangerous ideology that knows no borders," said Luc Portelance, CSIS Assistant Director of Operations."
Re absurdity and reason-logic:
As Robert Spencer pointed out in The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, "terrorism" is a method, not an ideology-religion. Further, as per Spencer, saying "the war on terroism" is logically the same as saying "the war on bombs".
The method used is a consequence of the problem.
What is the problem?
What are the causes of the problem?
What are the solutions to the problem?
To solve a problem, we must first name the problem. Could it be that the PC don't want to solve the problem?
Muslims, you sure, figured they were Lutheran terrorists trying to incite a new 30 Years War in Canada.
Actually, problem solving would better follow this sequence-
1) What is the problem?
2) What are the consequenses of the problem?
3) What are the causes of the problem?
4) What are the solutions to the problem?
Question #2 should be in the sequence. The PC will not follow the sequence-only deal with #2. The PC deal with consequences (#2) only. Why?
Only yesterday the poster George_rem observed the parallel between Muslim overpopulation in London and Muslim overpopulation in Toronto:
"Same can be said about certain Toronto neighborhoods. It is amazing to compare today's Toronto to the one only 10 years ago." -Posted by: george_rem at June 2, 2006 02:16 PM
We're being attacked by muslims all over the globe.
It's unfortunate that actions for self-preservation are not politically correct.
Racial profiling is our greatest weapon of self-defence but until we start to identify our enemy, we can expect decades of scrapping pieces of our family and friends from the sidewalks.
CSIS Assistant Director Portelance exhibited muddied thinking when he stated "Terrorism is an ideology." He's not alone in missing the point entirely.
An ideology is a system of ideas which justify actions, usually in the political sphere. Terrorism is the action (an observable behaviour)justified, in most of the cases around the world, by the ideology of Islam -- i.e., justified in the eyes of those who follow that ideology.
As Robert has written, terrorism is a method, not a belief system. Yet, here we have once again, an educated, presumably rational, official ascribing planned crimes to a belief in the methods of their proposed execution ... anything but the correct naming of the enemy.
And -- apparently these accused took delivery of 3 tons of ammonium nitrate. Now, unless they are large scale farmers (unlikely, due to their urban addresses) or took delivery of many small bags at different addresses, this would arouse suspicion. I have a feeling that this was their downfall. The RCMP clearly stated that the accused "took delivery" of what could only be a suspicious amount of fertilizer. How could they not have known this? Of course this is all speculation on my part, but perhaps being inculcated with fixed beliefs from childhood on isn't so good for the thinking processes.
One of the greatest favors the Canadians and Brits can do for themselves and humanity is CUT OFF FUNDING for the BBC and the CBC.
These are two bastions of cultural corruption which harm the West and abet her worst enemies. Strangle these megaphones before it's too late!
Frank,
"problem solving would better follow this sequence-
1) What is the problem?
2) What are the consequenses of the problem?
3) What are the causes of the problem?
4) What are the solutions to the problem?
Question #2 should be in the sequence. The PC will not follow the sequence-only deal with #2. The PC deal with consequences (#2) only. Why?"
The problem we are having with the Problem is that the PC cannot move beyond #1. They cannot properly identify the problem, due to their multiculturalist anti-Western Islam-ignorant politically correct blinders. The reason they cannot do so involves extraordinary intellectual and emotional inertia, due to an ideology of PC that is overwhelmingly dominant in our Western societies.
Folks,
Over the next several days and weeks, according to the usual pattern, Islamic apologists are going to be all over the media telling us that Islam is a religion of peace. Here's a few responses to that:
1. Article on verse 5:32, "anyone who kills a man..."
http://www.islam-watch.org/Archemedez/KillingInKoran.htm
2. Admission from a credible Muslim source that the word "Islam" does not mean "peace."
“The religion of peace Myth
Misconception 1
Islam is `the religion of peace' because:
o the Arabic word Islam is derived from the Arabic word "Al-Salaam" which means peace.
It might seem strange to think of this as a misconception, but in fact it is. The root word of Islam is "al-silm" which means "submission" or "surrender." It is understood to mean "submission to Allah." In spite of whatever noble intention has caused many a Muslim to claim that Islam is derived primarily from peace, this is not true. Allah says in the Qur'an (translated):
[2:136] Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have surrendered. [Arabic "Muslimoon"]
A secondary root of Islam may be "Al-Salaam" (peace), however the text of the Qur'an makes it clear that Allah has clearly intended the focus of this way of life to be submission to Him. This entails submission to Him at all times, in times of peace, war, ease, or difficulty.”
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html
3. Assorted verses of jihad, killing, terror, mayhem.
22:39. “Permission to fight is given to those (i.e. believers against disbelievers), who are fighting them, (and) because they (believers) have been wronged, and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory.”
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 96:
Narrated Zaid bin Khalid:
Allah's Apostle said, " He who prepares a Ghazi [raider, warrior] going in Allah's Cause is given a reward equal to that of) a Ghazi; and he who looks after properly the dependents of a Ghazi going in Allah's Cause is (given a reward equal to that of) Ghazi."
Sahih Muslim, Book 020, Number 4645:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Sa'id Khudri that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said (to him): Abu Sa'id, whoever cheerfully accepts Allah as his Lord, Islam as his religion and Mubammad as his Apostle is necessarily entitled to enter Paradise. He (Abu Sa'id) wondered at it and said: Messenger of Allah, repeat it for me. He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 3, Number 125: Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What kind of fighting is in Allah's cause? (I ask this), for some of us fight because of being enraged and angry and some for the sake of his pride and haughtiness." The Prophet raised his head (as the questioner was standing) and said, "He who fights so that Allah's Word (Islam) should be superior, then he fights in Allah's cause."
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 44:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, “I do not find such a deed.” Then he added, “Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?” The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, “The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope.”
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity [zakat], so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
8:39 (Al-Jalalayn)
And fight them until sedition, idolatry, is, exists, no more and religion is all for God, alone, none other being worshipped; then if they desist, from unbelief, surely God sees what they do, and will requite them for it.
8:39. "And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do."
Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”
Ishaq:204 ‘Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man?’ ‘Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.’
Ishaq:530 "Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads and make enemies of friends."
Ibn Ishaq:572 "Muhammad is the man, an Apostle of my Lord. Evil was the state of our enemy so they lost the day. Fortunes change and we came upon them like lions from the thickets. The armies of Allah came openly, flying at them in rage, so they could not get away. We destroyed them and forced them to surrender. In the former days there was no battle like this; their blood flowed freely. We slew them and left them in the dust. Those who escaped were choked with terror. A multitude of them were slain. This is Allah's war in which those who do not accept Islam will have no helper. War destroyed the tribe and fate the clan."
Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”
Ishaq:326. If you come upon them (infidels), deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.
8:57. If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.
8:67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
8:35 “And their worship at the (holy) House is naught but whistling and hand-clapping. Therefore (it is said unto them): Taste of the doom because ye disbelieve.”
3:151: Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
9:123. “O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).”
4:66 "...But had We prescribed for them, saying, 'Slay yourselves' or 'Leave your habitations,' they would not have done it, save a few of them; yet if they had done as they were admonished it would have been better for them, and stronger confirming them..."
3:140. If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allah may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allah likes not the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers).
3:141. And that Allah may test (or purify) the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers.
3:142. Do you think that you will enter Paradise before Allah tests those of you who fought (in His Cause) and (also) tests those who are As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.)?
3:143. You did indeed wish for death (AshShahadah - martyrdom) before you met it. Now you have seen it openly with your own eyes.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 160:
Narrated Jarir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle has never refused to admit me since I embraced Islam, and whenever he saw me, he would smile. (In another narration) Jarir bin 'Abdullah narrated: There was a house called Dhul-Khalasa in the Pre-lslamic Period and it was also called Al-Ka'ba Al-Yamaniya or Al-Ka'ba Ash-Shamiya. Allah's Apostle said to me, "Will you relieve me from Dhul-Khalasa?" So I left for it with 150 cavalrymen from the tribe of Ahmas and then we destroyed it and killed whoever we found there. Then we came to the Prophet and informed him about it. He invoked good upon us and upon the tribe of Ahmas.
Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4321:
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 14, Number 2632:
Narrated Salamah ibn al-Akwa': The Apostle of Allah appointed Abu Bakr our commander and we fought with some people who were polytheists, and we attacked them at night, killing them. Our war-cry that night was "put to death; put to death." Salamah said: I killed that night with my hand polytheists belonging to seven houses.
21:11. How many a town (community), that were wrong-doers, have We destroyed, and raised up after them another people!
21:12. Then, when they perceived (saw) Our Torment (coming), behold, they (tried to) flee from it.
21:13. Flee not, but return to that wherein you lived a luxurious life, and to your homes, in order that you may be questioned.
21:14. They cried: "Woe to us! Certainly! We have been Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, etc.)."
21:15. And that cry of theirs ceased not, till We made them as a field that is reaped, extinct (dead).
I can't help but notice that, every time there is an article in our local newspaper fingering Muslims as the perpetrators, the paper counters this by publishing a "feel-good" story about Islam.
Today, we were treated to 1/2 page accounting of how a man "found" Islam after leaving it for 25 years.
Could it be that the newspaper's intent was to lull the gullible infidels back into their "Islam is Peace" mode?
Not your average migrant –
Might Islamic immigration be curtailed in most Western nations, simply because policing them will become too expensive?
Canada recently elected 'conservatives' into their national government. If they had done this earlier and avoided its unfortunate fishing expedition into moonbeam political lunacy (and idiotic anti-Americanism as well as some extremely serious corruption scandals) they might have carried out such raids far earlier than this and cut fomenting Islamic terrorism off at a time when there was far less urgency to do so--and less danger to the citizens of Canada. In short, it's now the eleventh hour for Canadians in thwarting Islamic terrorism on their soil.
I'm glad the Canadians decided to do something after all. For a while it didn't appear that they were going to.
Here are some Msnbc videos on the Canada arrests
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10663276/?GT1=8211
Arjun, good to see you here buddy. These scumbags take Western first names or nicknames to try and blend in. He's probably from Kashmir or Pakistan and his real name is probably Mohammed. I wish our governments would stop playing with these punks and make plotting terrorist acts and treason punishable by death. Then just shoot them in the back of the head and bury their corpses in a pig carcas as a warning to futire jihadis. The Israelis stopped suicide bombers on busses by putting large plastic bladders of pigs blood on the busses in plain sight. The would-be suicide bombers get on, take one look at the pigs blood, turn white with fear and get off as quickly as possible. They know that if they detonate on the bus their blood will be mixed with that of the pigs and they will never enter paradise.
Television-
I agree with you. Dealing with point #2 which gurantees no solution to the problem.
I am begining to wonder if they like the problem (for their own reasons) and that's why they do not want to name it. They pretend (I think Spencer speculates about this in his book) that they are concerned that people will engage in vigilantism if the PC are specific in naming the sources of terror.
However, I have a different angle on this. I think many PC like the problem and fart liberal platitudes to divert attention from the malicious motives some PC have in not naming the problem.
The whole thing is so absurd. It's like Doctors consulting re a patient, naming symptoms, describing symptoms, hinting at the location of the disease, but never naming the disease. How can they agree on therapy?
TV-
A funny skit could be made of this. Ten doctors around a patient, describing symptoms, locations of the symptoms, fever, blisters etc-and everytime one of the doctors asks the question "So what are the causes of the symptoms and what is the disease"? The other doctors turn on the Doc (meanwhile the patient is writhing on a gurney)and accuse him of "symptaphobia."
The accused Doc answers that he's not afaid of the symptoms, but that if the other doctors do not name the disease, that the patient will get sicker, suffer more, and no one will know the right medicine to perscribe. The accused Doc says, "Why can't we name the disease? Why can't we get at the cause of the symptoms and name the disease?"
The other Docs yell "Sympaphobia!" "How dare you name the disease-or want to name it!"
It could be like Kafka's novel The Trial where no one has a clue what the perp did or why he's in court.
It wont be long before the CBC turns this all around and blames the Americans for the poor misfortunes of these terrorists, and then demands that the White House apologize for causing these innocents such over-whelming distress. You may think I jest, but I don't.
They appear to have been trained in camps in canada. They had enough ammonium nitrate 300 tons(Oklahoma had 100) to blow up several buildings.
Problem 1: They have camps in Canada??? Why are we in Iraq and Land of afgan rugs when they have camps in Canada???
Problem 2: I hope our government (stupid as they are) has checked into ammonium nitrate sales...any idiot can make a bomb with it but they need a large supply and a secure location to make it up however (see no. 3)
Problem No. 3: New Muslim communities in places away from the cities like Maine OR Utah....Why are there large muslim communities in these areas??? Somewhat isolated...make camps...make bombs...oh yes..
With that said its good the Canadians stopped it. We can all laugh and get angry about the Canadians and their easy ass laws and anti-american nonsense sometimes but in the end are we any better??? Really...Port Sales, Islamic Centers being built in major american cities, muslims groups on the rampage, no border control, and more?????
And I thought we had a "conservative republican government"....
I am awaiting the first news person to ask this simple question...
What did these hope to accomplish?
Just start there, please!
moose
Sadly, Canadian Infidel, we know it's coming. It's already being reported that these "youth" undertook to murder and destroy because of the suffering of global Muslims brought on by US wars. Megaphones for terrorists -- megaphones for cultural and moral relativism.
CBC -- Concocted Bullshit Conveyor
TV-One last thought. The accused Doc has the temerity to mame the disease. The other Docs accuse him of being insensative to the patient (again yell symptaphobia!)-accuse him of being a "scientist". It coud be a real Kafkaesque nightmare...
It is a Kafkaesque nightmare.
Good citizens know this Muslim sewage is just the same old post-facto justifications we always hear justifying Islamic murder.
Muhammad's playbook, their filth stained koran, is full of similar post-facto justifications for rape, mass murder, kidnapping, stealing, and other aspects of generalized bad citizenship. Muhammad would act out psychotically, and then have a psychotic interlude with angels explaining after the fact how his actions fit with Allah's plans for humankind. Personally murdering nearly 900 Jews at one point, or killing one Jewish woman's father and brothers before her eyes, then "marrying" her the same day, and raping her that night...
We should never have deluded ourselves that Muslims would act any differently once they started coming to the West in large numbers. Their religion is based on hatred and lies, and it is solely designed to spread that hatred and those lies however and wherever it may. We are dust to them. Garbage to be cleared out of the way so Islam can dominate all.
It's hard for Westerners to imagine how little regard Muslims have for us. We can hardly credit their crimes -- imagining it must be some kind of disorder among individuals. It almost doesn't compute that their entire religion, and even those who don't directly support the violence per se, ALL support the idea that Islam is the best system of belief, and that it MUST be spread to every corner of the globe.
Moose, unfortunately the answer is simple: their purpose is to bring the whole of the non-Muslim world under the rule of the Caliphate by spreading war and terror and force as many people as possible to convert to Islam and accept Islamic rule.
This is taken directly from the Quran, Al-Anfal, 8:39 “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism) and the religion will all be for Allah alone.”
The NYT has some interesting info tucked away in its report about the arrests. Apparently the Toronto jihadis may have been in contact with some Georgia jihadis:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/world/americas/04toronto.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5094&en=58798ee2c44c6f76&hp&ex=1149393600&partner=homepage
Massa Kurtz -- Your link -- he dead...
It only plays an appeal for money for WAMU.
Kurtz, for the answer please read my post to Moose above. Long story short: it's commanded of them in their religion.
Hmmmm, first acid rain and now radical islam, maybe we are building the wall on the wrong border. Who is watching these Canadians (insert Bomb Canada song here)?
The imam of the mosque explains it all. According to the BBC, Aly Hindy, an imam at a Toronto mosque, said he knew most of the accused and believed one or two were involved in crime but not terrorism.
"One guy was doing some criminal activity, selling guns for money," he was quoted as saying by Reuters news agency outside the courtroom.
"But the problem is these days when a Muslim commits fraud, it becomes terrorism. When he commits stealing it becomes terrorism."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5044560.stm
Why is Aly Hindy not arrested? He as confessed to a crime accessory to illegally sell a firearm. The mosque should be condemned and closed. Are the Canadian authorities stupid enough to leave it open?
These incidents as well as recent murders of the innocent in Spain, England and Holland, show that making your country a refuge for fundamentalist scum will not protect you one rial. It may be contributing to the country of sanctuary.
Dhimmi of the world unite. Infidels of the world unite!
Allah Naqba! Allah Naqba! Allah Naqba!
(Allah is the source of our misfortune)!
Kurtz, they are brainwashed. Banging their foreheads on the floor five times a day makes their brains addled. No kidding. See this link of Zawahiri. Look at the knot on his forehead.
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/al-zawahiri-9-sep-04.jpg
Then they start believing the nonsense in the Quran.That's all it takes to drive them nuts.
The terrorist group that wanted to kill Canadians are they Catholic, Anglican or Sikhs? Canadian media is only giving out names and not the type of terrorist.
I am sure they can not be muslims, because islam is religion of PEACE they are?
ala-sux writes: "The scary part was how he [Tarek Fatah] insisted Canada was safe because the US was the target and they wouldn't kill people here in Canada."
This "promise" is the linchpin of the alliance between Islamists and Western Leftists, who are trying to detach Canada (and all other allies of America) from America.
The Islamists are copying Hitler's "divide and conquer" tactics. Hitler made all sorts of promises to each country to keep it from allying with a Western coalition against him. To Denmark and Norway he said Germany didn't want war against them and it was Britain and France who were pushing war. (Just before he conquered them.) Then to the French he said that Germany didn't want war against them and it was Britain who was pushing war. (Just before he conquered them.) Over and over.
To the fury of hard-core Canadian leftists, I said that in today's so-called "war on terror," Canada is the new Belgium. They will cling to their neutrality, desperately believing the cynical lies of the aggressors that this fight has nothing to do with them--until they learn the hard way that aggressors always start by attacking the weakest in the coalition against them, never the strongest.
Aren't the excuses by "moderate" Muslims for the bad behavior of the Jihadis getting old?It's hard to sell the notion that Islam is a "religion of peace", when over and over again in nations after nations Muslims are being exposed as part of the latest terrorist plot.
How were these Muslims able to buy 3 tons of ammonium nitrate? Doesn't Canada track the sales of ammonium nitrate? It's my understanding that after Oklahoma City tracer tags were inserted in ammonium nitrate fertilizer and all sales are tracked in the US.
Steven L.,
There are a few Canadians who have posted at JW who were confident that Canada would never be a terrorist target, only the US.I wonder what those Canadians think now?
This should be the wake-up call that Canada needs, but having watched a few inane interviewers in the last few hours, I'm not so sure. There is a mindset that this is an immigration problem -- illegal immigrants, bogus refugee claimants, improper screening, etc. No, no, no -- the accused are for the most part homegrown terrorists, and it seems that the media can't wrap their minds around that.
If I've heard the word "shocked" once today, I've heard it a hundred times. Canadians are shocked, shocked, shocked. Why, these homegrown jihadis even had a training camp in "cottage country" about 100 miles north of Toronto, deep in the forest. I'm not shocked but I live in that area too and I thought I just had the black bears and wolves to worry about here.
Roxane asks: "There are a few Canadians who have posted at JW who were confident that Canada would never be a terrorist target, only the US.I wonder what those Canadians think now?"
I've seen what the hard-core lefty Canadians are already saying on other Internet chat rooms. They are saying that this is a "Wag the Dog" operation, deliberately plotted by Prime Minister Harper to scare Canada into moving to the right politically. That just like Bush caused 9-11 to turn America into a fascist country, Harper caused this terrorist raid on what are probably innocent people in order to turn Canada into a fascist country.
Roxane asks: "Aren't the excuses by 'moderate' Muslims for the bad behavior of the Jihadis getting old?It's hard to sell the notion that Islam is a 'religion of peace', when over and over again in nations after nations Muslims are being exposed as part of the latest terrorist plot."
Roxane, hope springs eternal! For the better part of 100 years, radical Leftists have been running around the world like Indiana Jones, in search of the Holy Grail of "good, decent" Communism. They had become infatuated with one Marxist regime after another: Soviet communism; Chinese communism; Castro's Cuban communism; Ho Chi Minh's Vietnamese communism; Allende's Chilean Marxism; and now, last but not least, Chavez's Venezuelan Marxism. They kept searching and searching for someone who can make communism work, because they can't dare admit to themselves that the basic principle of communism is broken.
And now, multiculturalism is replacing communism as the new Holy Grail for them. Today's Leftists are chasing around the world in search of the "moderate" Muslims who can be part of that great socialist multicultural stew in Western society. Because they don't dare admit what "Naseem" admitted right here at JW: That here in America, for example, Islam is just incompatible with the U.S. Constitution. They can't admit to themselves that the basic principle of multiculturalism is broken, because it's based on a false assumption--that all ethnic cultures are of equal moral worth. That, for example, the desire by Jews to keep kosher is not really much different than the desire by Muslims to wage jihad!
Here in Australia, our leftists like former Wallaby player and radio host Peter Fitzsimmons, like to tell us that we are a terrorist target because we have troops in Iraq, our close alliance with the evil Yanks, jumping into bed with GWB, blah, blah, blah...'look at Canada', no threat there', they insist. I recall reading that around 60% of Canadians fear a terror attack on their soil and now this ! When will the Western Left realise that Islamofascists are NOT their allies, we infidels and kafirs are all in this together and the Islamofascists wants us all to submit to their death cult or die !
Lay out the facts. Publish their chat room rants. Bigger pictures of their families and friends on the tele and in the papers. Big Brother is watching you. Echelon and post-Echelon systems don't help with humanit but are great with the net, phones ie signet. Interestingly, a large segment of worldwide web traffic passes through the US--even though the sites may be offshore(as are the 'hits'). God bless the NSA. I'm sure they had a hand in this. While illegal to spy on one's own, it has been SOP for friendly countries to spy on one another's peoples and compare notes. Big Brother may be worrisome, but is essential to moniter the web. This is the key means for decentralized Jihadis to 'share the joy.'
Message for all decentralized scumbag wannabe Jihadis: your sad asses are being watched.
Question to all decentralized scumbag wannabe Jihadis: Why not opt out of the decadent west--Saudi Arabia is a great place for your ilk. Or if Saudi is too hot, how about Paris? Lot's of fellow youths to play with.
Stop all Muslim immigration--except for rare exceptions like Hirsi. End this mind numbing attempt at openness with Arabian students studying are our universities, reaping the benifits of a western education.
Kurtz,
I think I can offer some insight (though I am not a sociologist). Belief is very powerful. If one truly believes something, one will act on it. These Muslims may be raised in another country and culture, but they still receive education in Mohammed, the Koran, and Allah. If they believe in their god, “Allah” and his alleged messenger, Mohamed, they why should these Muslims not do what Allah and Mohamed said to do?
If the Koran or Hadith says to kill people if they resist Islam, or impose a tax on non-Muslims and this Muslim wants to please his god, what do you think he will do? The belief that “Allah” will reward him for these acts is more powerful than any cultural influence. It is belief that motives these people.
Well done Canada. 30 or 300 tonnes? Either way many more innocents saved today from the clutches of evil. Allah will be displeased with his servants, they have failed him yet again! You just can't get the mujahedeen these days.
kurtz - for a scientific explanation, the degree of Jihad in a society is equal to density of Ummah per head of population (u) multiplied by the density of the average mujahedeen (m) multiplied by the society's Muhammadan awarerness (Ma) times the number of dhimmis (h).
Thus:
Jihad = umMah
The higher values of UmMah are notoriously reactive and unstable, and care should be taken with regards to storage and maintance. For detailed handling instructions read Spencer's Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), chapter III "Today's Jihad".
Folks, it was three (3) tons of the nitrate (by comparison the amount used in the Oklahoma bombing was 1 ton).
___
Next, a so-called terrorism expert gives us this erroneous, misleading statement about the mind-set of the jihadists in our midst:
"Their so-called 'religious education' is usually nothing but cherry-picked Koranic statements heavily laced with poisonous jihadist messages that bear little resemblance to the actual message of Islam."
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=8ef8514e-3fa2-44e2-83ee-6073a8e6ea19&k=39010&p=4
1. There verses aren't cherry-picked. They form the foundation of the Islamic religion; they have been followed by mainstream Islam for the past approximately 1400 years; and jihad against non-Muslims for the purposes of bringing the whole world under Islam is accepted by all major schools of Islamic jurisprudence today (as Robert has pointed out countless times). Non-Muslims must be fought until they agree to accept Islam, or dhimmitude or slavery.
However, even if there was only a single verse (one picked cherry) which stated what any of those verses (which are quoted above in a previous post) stated, Muslims would still be required to follow it, because the Koran is regarded as perfect, must be followed and obeyed, those who don't obey it go to hell, etc. And as has been noted many times before, the principle of abrogation favours the later imperialistic verses of ethnic cleansing/genocide (9:5, 9:32-33, 8:7, 8:29, 2:193, 2:251, 22:38-45) over the earlier verses which tell Muslims to bide their time, be patient, etc. (the earlier verses never tell Muslims to remain peaceful or be genuine friends with those non-Muslims who do not convert to Islam).
In any case, if Islam was so peaceful, why do there seem to be so many "bad cherries" to pick from (as in, bushel baskets full of them)?!
Quotation, by definition, involves taking a statement out of context. The question is whether such quotation gives a good representation of the source. It turns out that when we put the verses of the Koran in context, they turn out to be even worse than one would expect. Indeed, when one reads the language of the Koran, it is evident that the bellicose wording has been toned down (this can be seen by comparing the statements in the Koran with the probable context (as reconstructed primarily by use of Hadith and Sira), as well as from comparable statements from the Sira, which are usually somewhat more graphic than those in the Koran.
The Islamic justification for killing Canadian citizens is the same as the justification for killing any other non-Muslims who are of a country currently at war with any Muslims anywhere (in this case, Canadians are at war with some Muslims Afghanistan--the jihadists don't seem to have factored into account the complexities of that situation, e.g., we non-Muslims are, among other things, defending Muslims in Afghanistan). First, Muslims intiate killing of non-Muslims due to some non-violent "provocation". Then the non-Muslims respond to those murders by trying to capture or kill those specific Muslim killers. Then Muslims retaliate against all non-Muslims from the target nation or group which is capturing and killing the Muslim perpetrators, according to the Koranic notion of collective justice which was also implemented by Mohammad. What this all comes down to is that any attempt by non-Muslims to police the activities of Muslims is regarded as an act of war against Islam, and therefore must be fought. (E.g., the Koran 9:11-14 exhorts Muslims to fight "those who attack [the Muslims] first." Well, "attacking first" in this case referred to a previous event, the Battle of Badr, where Mohammad and his men set out to raid a caravan and the Quraysh tried to defend it. Because the Quraysh tried to defend the caravan from the Muslim raiders, this was regarded as "attacking the Muslims first". Our response to the 9/11 attacks was to send soldiers to Afghanistan to fight those who attacked and killed our civilians and our allies' civilians. So the jihadists in question, like Mohammad, claim that the non-Muslims have "attacked them first." In other words, non-Muslims are not permitted to defend themselves against Islam; to do so is considered an act of aggression and must be fought by Muslims.
Of course, to justify their actions, jihadists will simply pick the most recent or most prominent context which suits their objectives and works with their propaganda campaign. To appeal to the leftists, they will object to anything that our society is doing by way of defence and security. To appeal to predominantly religious members of our society, they will make statements about the alleged sacreligiousness and immorality of our society. The jihadists have studied our societies for at least the past several decades (at least since Qutb). They will use the weaknesses and naivete of both the religious and the non-religious, the left and the right, in our societies. The jihadists exploit political correctness and multiculturalism of some on the left and use these as weapons against us. They use the religiosity of some on the right (specifically, religious leaders and politicians) to help them implement sharia and Islamic schools, etc. Any statement the jihadists make to the police or the media can only be regarded as propaganda that is directed by specific goals and intended to have a specific effect on the population. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 14, Number 2498: Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Use your property, your persons, and your tongues in striving against the polytheists. Also see Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "War is deceit."). The media do not appear to be savvy to this yet.
To the jihadists and other sharia-enthusiasts, it simply doesn't matter what we non-Muslims are doing or not doing, except insofar as we are opposing or transgressing Islam. If we oppose, restrict, or transgress Islam in any way, we'll be attacked. Refusing to accept Islam and implement Islamic law is grounds for a jihadist attack. Did our government's and media's predominant censorship in the cartoon affair help us win Muslim "hearts and minds"? Of course not. The media and politicians for the most part simply haven't clued in to the fact that there is no way to accommodate or appease those who want sharia (except by implementing sharia). Jihad is merely one part of sharia.
Islamic ideology contains commands for Muslims to take a non-violent situation and turn it into a violent one. In other words, Islam contains built-in mechanisms for initiating cycles of violence. Then, when the cycle of violence starts, Islam contains commands for Muslims to escalate the violence and continue it until the non-Muslims are defeated (killed or subjugated).
Animus,
Good post. I think some people have difficulty accepting that belief is a decisive causal factor in any voluntary action, and that no scientific explanation of terrorism is complete without discussing it.
I also definitely recommend the Robert's P.I.G to Islam. Canadians may have a hard time finding this book (I did), but they should place orders for it, thereby encouraging more Canadian bookstores to stock it. It is the best introduction to Islam that I've seen.
A good online source which goes through a sample of 100 cases of Islamic terror carried out by Mohammad (and/or his men, under his orders) can be found here
http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/RootsTerrorism0.htm
Kasem's article shows without question that Islam is founded on terror, plunder, slave-trade, etc. It is lengthy, but is a very useful internet resource.
Typo. I listed 8:29 as an ethnic cleansing/genocide verse. That should be 8:39.
"Hmmmm, first acid rain and now radical islam, maybe we are building the wall on the wrong border. Who is watching these Canadians (insert Bomb Canada song here)?"
Posted by: Ronin at June 3, 2006 05:59 PM
Ronin, there are some criticisms of Canada's left wing and media, etc., on this thread, that are not unreasonable. I don't object to criticism of Canada, if I think it is fair, true, warranted.
I will ask, though, why you blame Canada specifically for a problem (viz border security and the influx and growth of radical Islam) that is found in every western country, including the U.S. Also, surely you would not have advocated putting up that "wall" on 9/11, when most of the air traffic over the U.S. was directed to land in Canada? The fact is, both our countries need to be concerned about border security; all western countries need to be concerned about their borders with other western countries.
I will also ask why you advocate bombing my friends and family, and why you advocate bombing a country whose soldiers are currently putting their lives on the line in Afghanistan. I don't have anything to prove to you; nor have you given me any reason why I should put any stock in your opinion. I see loose-cannon types of statements coming from some Canadians and some Americans, and I don't see what that type of comment contributes, except to cause division among the allies, which is precisely what our enemy wants.
archi:
That's Metric tonnes , not 3 tons US .
Metric tonnes are 2200lbs because a Kg is = to 2.2 lbs and it's easier for trade if you call 1000Kg a Metric Tonne opposed to a 2000lb ton where you need a conversion chart.
ala-sux,
LOL! Yes, I was just thinking about that because some reports used the metric ("tonnes") whereas others used imperial ("tons") measurement spelling.
BTW, I was looking into a bit of background of Aly Hindy, the radical imam who yesterday said he knew several of the accused. (As you may know, Hindy was the imam who, last year, refused to condemn the London 7/7 bombers, and who has claimed that 9/11 was an inside job, etc. He was also a friend of the Khadr family).
“Also at the court hearing was Aly Hindy, an imam of an Islamic center that houses a school and a mosque and has been monitored by security agencies for years. He said he knows nine of the suspects and that Muslims once again were being falsely accused.”
(from a news link above)
Also,
Last year:
“A controversial Toronto imam warned Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan at a closed-door meeting to stop “terrorizing” Canadian Muslims.”
“If you try to cross the line I can’t guarantee what is going to happen. Our young people, we can’t control,” Aly Hindy, the head of Scarborough’s Salaheddin Islamic Centre, recalls telling the minister at the May meeting she held in Toronto with dozens of Muslim leaders.
http://gnn.tv/headlines/3927/_Our_young_people_we_can_t_control
Toronto Imam Won't Condemn London Bombings
Imam Aly Hindy, who presides over the Salaheddin Islamic Centre, has refused to sign a collective statement denouncing the terrorist attacks in London, saying that they might have been part of a plot by the United States. "I'm really wondering how come this terrorist attack happened just exactly before the Congress debated renewing the Patriot Act," he said. The comment won praise from others in the Muslim community, reports the National Post.
http://markriebling.blogs.com/sources_and_methods/incident_0507_london/index.html
gf: Radical Islamist Was Nuclear Safety Engineer
http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=17048&only
Hindy: "All the sects in Islam are innovation. The Prophet Mohammed didn't have sects. That's why I say I am a fundamentalist. I want to practise the religion as the Prophet practised it."
http://www.truthandgrace.com/clericscarborough.htm
...some more on Hindy. Not suprisingly, he said that the Danish cartoonists should be punished.
“And from the Islam point of view, he should be tried because he insulted the Prophet.”
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1139699409920&call_pageid=970599119419
Yet another bunch of idiots planning to murder for a mythological "god" who never existed. I'm not surprised in the least.
“And from the Islam point of view, he should be tried because he insulted the Prophet.”
Just once I'd like to see one of these "clerics", instead of saying someone should be punished (meaning, someone else should do it), grab his scimitar, hop on his donkey, yell "Hassan chop!", and have a go at it themselves. Set the example.
Would be good for a chuckle before some Westerner puts a round through his turban.
Archimedes thx for the link, reading that now.
Stephen Vikash Chand? If its true he CONVERTED to islam... STUPID M*THER#&CKER.
What kind of demented mind would convert from to Islam? He, along with his whole family should be shot, they, simply for not killing their p.o.s. son.
Cant believe this guy. I'd really beat the sh*t out of him if i ever met him.
I hope the hang the a55hole. Fcking damn muslims. dont' want to live in their country so run here and mess sh*t up.
If the West is so damn bad, they should go back. These people CANNOT co-exist peacefully with ANYONE... not even themselves! (Sunni vs. Shia vs. Agha Khani)