The American Council for Kosovo Protests Washington Visit of Terrorist and War Criminal Agim Ceku

I'm with the Serbs on this one.

Kosovo's expected independence might mean exodus for its Serbs

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We should have supported Milosevic. Bill Clinton lied, Chistians died.

Oh, c'mon! Secretary Rice probably has a ceremonial Koran to present to the jihadi.

A "Holy, Holy" Koran, as Condoleeza would insist we call it.

Having never read it, herself, of course.

I've said it before... In 50 years time the world (unless it's mainly muslim by then) will consider Slobodan Milosevic to be a freedom fighter. Granted, some of his methods haven't been very subtle but he was nowhere near as bad as Al-Zarqawi and he had been elected by the Serb people which is good enough for me.

For Gods sake, I dont know what to say....

Am ashamed to have served in Kosovo... The muslims were murdering and torching Orthodox churches all the time.. We did NOTHING to prevent this... Klintoon bombing Serbia would be like Russia bombing Briton... That's why we can't gather allies in the Orthodox World. History repeats itself, Crusaders sack the Byzantines when both Christian peoples should have united against the mohamedians...

I suspect Clinton (who I am no fan of in retrospect) acted out of ignorance and faulty information. Both seem to be pandemic in the Beltway region during recent years.

However, that does not mean that Milosevic deserved our support. As far as I know, this man was hell-bent on imposing a Serbian ethnic identity on the entire northern Balkan region without the approval of the various cultures that reside there and have been there for many centuries (and I do NOT include Muslims in that). Not all of the regions where intense fighting occurred were Islamic strongholds.

Note that the many newly-independent Balkan states like Croatia, Montenegro et al are in no hurry to reconcile with Serbia. And with good reason. I think this partly vindicates the United States' actions against the Milosevic dictatorship in the late 1990s. I do think, however, in retrospect had Americans known that some of the Balkan conflict was a jihad war instigated by Islam they would have (and definitely should have) taken a different course of action than the one they chose.

So I take issue with the statement that the United States should have backed Milosevic, one outcome of which would have been near-total estrangement of many non-Serbian (and non-Muslim) ethnic groups in the Balkan region. I tend to doubt Milosevic was averse to killing Christians that stood in his way (so he had something in common with the Muslims he combatted).

pythagoras you disgust me. Croatia ethnically cleansed 600,000 serbs while trying to make an ethnically pure croatian state. Trudjman the neo nazi leader of croatia was also a holocaust denier. The serbs were victim of mass propoganda. It wasnt just an issue of picking the wrong side. If we didnt intervene the right side would have won. There is no evidence that milosevic wanted an ethnically pure serbia.
The facts prove the opposite. Croatia which was 12%serb is now almost 100% croatia. Kosovo which still belongs to Serbia is almost 100% albanian. Serbia today is the only multiethnic state left in the old republic with serbs making up something like 64% of the population. Get your facts straigt race traitor.

All make good points. It sickens me that Jihadists get the better of anyone--Hindu, Jew, Croat or Serb. Looking back, I wish we would have aided the Russkies against the 'Freedom Fighters.' It would have been the 'Wide World of Jihad and counter-Jihad.'

The agony of the Jihad and the thrill of the daisy cutter . . .

I'm so appalled to read this. And after the Canadians were promised "the perpetrators would be brought to justice".

Is there any perfidy to which the Administration and Miss Rice will not stoop?

I'm so appalled to read this. And after the Canadians were promised "the perpetrators would be brought to justice".

Is there any perfidy to which the Administration and Miss Rice will not stoop?

One of my brothers friends was a canadian soldier that came under attack in the Medak Pocket. For years the Canadian government refused to admit there was a battle between canadian troops who came under attack and croatian forces. I am not sure if they have admited to it in recent years. They would not give veterans benefits to the soldiers so the politicians could look PC.

I am with Milosevic. I think he annihilated zombies. And what the hell are the policy makers doing meeting this known terrorist ? Can't they even add 2 and 2 to get 4 ?

I gotta hand it to George & Condi, they've done more to legitimize jihad terror war than even Jacques.

Wasn't too long ago that Condi would limit herself to meeting with the odd unctuous intermediary here and there; now she's raising champaign toasts to the real article right here at home, in the shadow Old Glory.

The only question now is: Will Condi put Mr. Ceku on the invitation list for her Ides of Eid Bash later this year?

She should. I'm sure he now realizes he made a mistake, everybody makes mistakes, is real sorry about what he did, and won't never do it again.

So what's new? Boy Clinton had Gerry Adams, the infamous IRA kapo of Ulster, over to the White House. Many were the times when Deng Xiaoping (who got his start as a terrorist as well) was feted in Washington.

Frankly, too many comments on this thread about how we should've supported Milosevic or the Soviets are off the wall. The breakup of Yugoslavia accelerated the hardening of Islam among the Bosniaks and Shqiptars; largely because of the antics of people like Milosevic. Had identity politics not taken over, a quiet Los vom Islam that was going on among those Balkan Muslims would have ocntinued. And, BTW, such a Los vom Islam is also quietly going on among diaspora Muslims in the West--and, thinking about something someone once said on another thread re Walid Shoebat, I believe it is imperative for Christians to keep the Gospel of Christ as a door through which Muslims are invited to pass rather than as a club held over their heads. Perhaps this is one reason why Balkan Muslim defections to Christianity have generally been to various Evangelical groups rather than to Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.

As for aiding the Soviets against the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, I must demurr. The Soviet Union of Brezhnev and successors was a very dangerous superpower, whereas the various Muslim states are ramshackle sinkholes forever perched on the verge of civil war. Perhaps a continuation of the liberal supine posture towards Communism might have bogged down Soviet power in an endless series of wars in the Islamic world; but history has happened, and we cannot undo it.

There are a number of tightropes any American administration has to walk in foreign policy. The rest of the world, whether it is Muslim or not, is not clay in the hands of American hyperpower, but throws up its various crises to which any responsible government of any state must respond. The present case simply reflects the fact that any government sometimes needs to deal with distasteful people.

Pythagoras,
There is still of confusion and ignorance around, which is probably how the powers that be like it. Anyhow, the Montenegrins always considered themselves Serbs. Now, because Montenegro [Cherna gora} is a mountain [Black Mountain], that part of Serbia was able to retain a measure of independence or autonomy against the Ottoman Empire, with some help from Venice and/or Russia, I suppose. An independent Montenegrin kingdom existed before WW One, which explains why it was a separate Yugoslav republic. A separate Montenegrin polity was already a tradition. Yet, note that Montenegro has been associated with Serbia until this year. So the question is why they are now breaking off. The answer is that the local political leadership was given promises by --guess who-- Uncle Sam, if they would break away from Serbia [plus various favors from the US over the past several years, so it seems]. Now, the local Montegrin leadership has been allegedly involved in all the sorts of rackets [drug smuggling, the white slave trade {?}, etc.] so common in Former Yugoslavi, along with various corrupt parties in Serbia, Croatia, Muslim Bosnia, etc. So they may have been promised immunity from prosecution for their racketeering if they would go along with breaking up Serbia.

CORRECTION: There is still a lot of confusion and ignorance around about the Balkans...

Long Live Serbia and the beautiful Serbian people.

'The jihad in Kosovo officially was launched in 1995 at a meeting in Tirana, Albania, between Osama bin Laden and Mr. Ceku’s KLA accomplices Ramush Haradinaj and Hashim Thaci.'

Read it. Read it again. And when you're tired of it's message, read it again.

And yet you all sound so surprised on 9 11.

DICKHEADS.

You get what you deserve.

Hey Kepha , toilet rag, are you capable of rational thought?

Christ, I read your bull shit and I was almost reaching for the Koran. As in, "Anything but this shit".

You're a dickhead. Piss off.

clinton was a liar who invaded serbia based on lies. but Today Bush is just as bad as Clinton why do people assume that kosovo being occupied by terrorist KLA is only Clintons doing? today that terrorist piece of crap Agim Ceku is meeting condi rice that is Bush's administration not Clintons Bush is the president of America and he has not pulled the american troops out of kosovo he is just as bad as clinton and i am sure Bush also supported the war on serbia as he continue's to keep the troops there and not letting the serbs take back kosovo Bush is also a scumbag like clinton they should both be impeached for war crimes

arjun:

Although Milosevic DID combat jihad in the Balkans (how effectively is a matter of debate), he also killed a lot of non-Muslim civilians in the region. You actually support this? Try it in your homeland, then.

By the way, Milosevic's reign was not necessarily beneficial to the cause of fighting jihad in the Balkans. His pro-Serbia aggression alienated many potential supporters of his war against Islamic aggression in the Balkans which are still at war with Islam.

ELiyahu:

It is highly unlkely that Uncle Sam made some Balkan states do anything they were averse to doing in the first place.

Kepha and Pythagoras thanks for your posts. I guess Islam really is the religion of peace. Thanks for showing that is was us that started the violence. I guess the Bosnian SS units in WWII were psychic and new we the evil west were going to do something 60 years later and had no choice but to join hitler. Great I can go to sleep knowing now that as long as we don't provoke them the Muslims will leave us alone.

This article is BS public relations campaign by agency registered under Foreign Agents act as agents for Serbian National Council (available in the front page of http://www.americansforkosovo.org).

As somebody who has served in Kosovo I can tell you that this article is made of manufactured facts. For example the engineered picture showing decapitated is actually a Serbian military wearing captured KLA uniforms holding a head of Albanian civilian who was already dead (picture manufactured by Serbian military for internal propaganda).

There is no difference between Republican and Democrat policy on Kosovo – everybody knows that Albanians are biggest US ally in the region; actively participating with US in the war on terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan.

On the other hand Serbs ally with everything anti-western:
- Serbs celebrate 9/11 terrorist attacks when we lost 3000 innocent souls (including my cousin)
- Serbs allies with Al-Qaeda and other Muslim extremists in Middle East (Serb claim that they fought “against” Islam extremism is bogus; note that conflicts in Balkan are ethnic based, and Serbs have killed many more Roman Catholics).
- Serbs allied with Sadam’s Iraq.
- Serbs ally with Gadafis Libya.
- Serbs allies with most leftist groups of Russia.
- Serbs ally with China.

I investigated and confirmed that there is no Hague indictment against Mr. Ceku.

This article is such a transparent attempt by PR representatives of Serbian National Council to deflect its responsibility in war crimes. Note that Serbian military committed the worst atrocities since WWII. The highest number of charged and indicted war criminals are Serbs (including their president and military leaders).

pissedoffcanadian:

No one has EVER BEEN MORE anti-Islam than I. If you had read my posts you would know that very well. So--

Either you didn't read what I wrote or it went over your head. You decide which.

And by the way, your analysis of the Balkan wars is fatally flawed. It IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE TO oppose Islam AND THE POLICIES OF MILOSEVIC at the same time!!!

How? You'll notice that numerous Balkan countries have emerged Croatia, Montenegro, et al. They opposed Milosevic too. Are they Muslim? YOU TELL ME. In fact, if anything by antagonizing non-Serbian ethnicities in the Balkans Milosevic fragmented what cold have been a united Balkan front against Islamic invasion. Many Balkans wanted nothing to do with either Milosevic OR ISLAM!!!!!

I guess you're just too 'pissed off' to figure anything that complex out for yourself.

Thanks for wating my time, you moronic Canuck.

ewah1, et al-

"He who slings mud loses ground." -Yugoslavian fortune cookie.

Milosevic is dead. "Yugoslavia" is dead. The jihad lives. Focus on the current enemy, not the tactical mistakes of the past.

Milosevic and his fellow junior despots grabbed for power as Yugoslavia fragmented, playing the "nationalism" card, and every side behaved like wild animals. Not a cause or leader to cheer on any front.

But, in the greater scheme, the jihadists played the sympathy card best, and now reap undeserved land and power. All because of the failure of Europe to crush the rising war mania in Yugoslavia, at the root, with overwhelming NATO forces, at the moment the conflict began to spiral into chaos and carnage.

But the majority of Europe doesn't seem to want to fight for anything.

The Balkan conflict was an EU problem.

They failed the people of Yugoslavia (Dutch UN "peacekeepers" watched as a massacre was unfolding, and did nothing useful to stop it), and the U.S. finally tried something to end the rampant madness. It may have been gullible and misguided, but the slaughtered ended.

Now, with a greater understanding of what jihadists will do to exploit any conflict in which they have the slightest 'Muslim card' to play, we need to keep their influence from distorting the "peace arrangements" being brokered.

The world press is failing to record the depredations of the Islamic Imperialists as they destroy Christian churches throughout the region and while they wheedle for land that they have no historical claim to.

The jihad must be fought on every front.

One of them is in the foxhole. Here. Those battling against the globalmilitant Muslim enemy should not be wrestling with one another in the trenches while the Islamist guerillas gain strength. And laugh at the folly of infidels fighting among themselves.

Focus on the crescent sword being raised over us all, not on the anger of ghosts that can be measured once the real war is one.

Mohammad is D*ckhead Number One.

Focus.

profitsbeard:
I totally agree with your statement above,
however,again and again I have to report to people discussing this topic that the massacre of Srebrenica was a well executed propaganda piece by the muslims.
My Dutch colleague (journalist) has actually been there on that fateful day, and yes, many muslim people died while the dutch military looked on (so to say), but he strongly assures me that the numbers were nowhere near what went down in worldhistory about this massacre. It is more realistic to cut a zero of that four-digit number. It is still a hell of a lot of people, but these muslim agitators knew what they were in for... anyway, the future will tell once that massgrave will be opened one day.

PS: I am not a jounalist, I only do the technical stuff...

Pythagoras you know nothing about the conflict in Yugoslavia. Reading headlines and taking them on as your opinion does not make you educated. Read Uncivil war by Scott Taylor. He also did a book on Kosovo. He is a Canadian soldier now a reporter who knows the conflict better than anyone. Talk to the canadian soldiers that were in the medak pocket. Have you talked to anyone with first hand knowlegde of what went on. NO you don't.

oh yeah by the way. monetnegro has a population of 700,000. 300,000 are albanians and muslims. Muslims who had citizenship and croatians too who know longer live in montenegro were allowed to vote. Meanwhile 300,000 montenegrans in Serbia were not allowed. How is that a free election. The current leader of montenegro is a gangster. He is wanted in Italy for smuggling charges. He is a puppet. With montenegro now independant there will be nothing to stop serbia from saying goodbye to kosovo. This was just a clean and cheap way to wash the western leaders hands clean in the balkans. They ignored the jihad and moved on.

For an intelligent Jewish and Zionist view of the Yugoslav wars, my friend Yohanan Ramati has an article on this in Midstream magazine (New York), April 1994. He shows how stupid and gullible some of the American Jewish organizations are, and how the anti-Serbian forces skilfully used public relations and propaganda techniques. Indeed, Milosevic's inability to deal with this kind of threat shows the inadequacy of his leadership, inter alia. [Several posters here have commented on or asked about the Israeli and Zionist view of the events in Yugoslavia]
This issue of Midstream also has an article about India-Israel relations, more or less blaming the paucity of relations up to 1992 on the Nehru-Ghandi family. By the way, one of Ramati's daughters was murdered by Hizbullah terrorists in the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, also in 1992, I believe.

Gaz Gjoni

America allied with Alquieda against serbs also the KLA have strong links to alqueda the serbs had nothing to do with alquieda it was infact the CIA who trained osaman bin laden Against the soviets so stop saying lies and also the croats killed 2 million serbs orthodox christians

i am anti islam very much but i dont feel the American Goverment is any better then the islamic Terrorist America knew that muslims hated christians and they used that to break up yugoslavia and soviet union America evil goverment used evil people to murder christians America goverment is just as anti christian as the muslims

Pissed Off Canadian:

I actually do.

I work on occasion with a young woman from the former Yugoslav Republic. She's lived there over twenty-five years.

According to her, the Milosevic regime murdered several civilians in the Balkans during the 1990s, the majority of whom were NOT Muslims. Mass graves continue to be unearthed over there on a regular basis. She personally did not oppose foreign intervention in the Balkan was and she is not Muslim herself. So at this point I distrust your sources. Someone who lived in the Balkans is likely to understand the political climate there better than a Canadian soldier who fought there. And you can tell that to your sources. BTW, there's plenty of Yugoslavians living in the US.

The fact that I oppose the Milosevic regime and most of its policies does NOT mean I in any way support Islam--you stepped way out of line, buster, by pressing that button. Now you have a pissed off American to deal with. I support counter-jihad everywhere and always have. For the record, not all of Milosevic's warring in the Balkans was jihad-related (not by a long shot) and that is what people like you aren't getting.

I don't personally giver a rat's ass about the corruption in the newly-independent Balkan states. Corruption is everywhere: Russia, Mexico,Indonesia,--Canada itself has had plenty of major corruption scandals recently. This is a non-issue as far as jihad is concerned. I'm not conerned about 'gangsters' either. Nothing new there. Montenegro doesn't have a lock on anything that I can see. Corruption is part of the human condition; spend time in some third world countries if you don't believe me.

You seem to have made a connection between corruption in the Balkans and grounds for fighting. But if I remember correctly, the Milosevic regime, was corrupt too. So, wouldn't that absolve Milosevic of the moral high ground with which to wage war in the Balkans (at least on those grounds)? I think it would. Milosevic and his regime therefore had no moral right anyway to (brutally) impose a Serbian national-cultural identity upon the rest of the Balkan societies which generally opposed their doing so. Who would you be to tell the Balkan peoples they were wrong to oppose that?

And by the way, by imposing all this unnecessary bloodshed on the Balkan peoples, Milsoevic's regime may well have undermined regional support for counter-jihad in the region as well. People get sick of war over time and the Balkan people have had 900 years of jihad already.

I think Milosevic and Company with their ethnic warring probably drained the stamina needed to combat jihad right out of these societies. It's easy for YOU to tell countries like Montenegro to combat jihad and then condemn for not doing more to do so. But insofar as I can see Canada's record in counter-jihad is not notably better that of Montenegro's--and you know what 'they say' about people who live in glass houses---

Pissedoffcanadian: If you read my comments carefully, you would note that I did NOT echo the business about Islam as a religion of peace (nor did Pythagoras). I have long recognized a portion of the Islamic world as a true and present danger. I have never seen Islam as in any way "equal" to Christianity, and believe very much in Christian mission to Muslims (indeed, I believe Islam to be a false religion). You would also know that I am not even a secularist, but a fundamentalist Christian--and hence have little love for Islam per se. My only concern is that while there are numerous Muslims ready to reconsider their religion, those of us who resist jihad need to be careful that we don't lead such people to the conclusion that there are no bridges out and they might as well stick with the rest of the folks they were born with (no matter what).

Ewha1, they said and did worse things to my LORD when he became incarnate.

Pythagoras most of my sources lived or have family in the former yugoslavia.

On one hand you state being against Milosevic is okay as you can still be against the Jihad. But the serbs were not allowed to be against the croats and other non-muslims and still be fighting the jihad. His opponents the croats were initially allied with the jihadists. They wanted to break up yugoslavia. Would you be in favour of mexican immigrants wanting to carve up the US? Actually in no circumstance would that be legal in the US. In fact Yugoslavia had rules for seperation. They were not followed. All three groups in Bosnia agreed to split up the country and it was the US that told them not too. They told the Muslims don't sign we will get you a better deal. Then war broke out.

And why the name pythagoras? Maybe you should stick to math.

"Tuđman reportedly estimated that a total of 900,000 Jews perished in the holocaust of the Second World War. (New York Times, April 22, 1993." That is the guy Milosevic fought. Also even if Milosevic is bad what is your problem with going after Agim Ceku. why are you an apologist for this guy. I know you go by Pythagoras trying to be greek american but something tells me you are a croat. Are you an ustashe lover? do you believe what Tudman wrote?

Greek Gurl,
I think you might want to use the word "short sighted American policy makers" instead of the whole American government. They made some moves that were/are not only anti - Christian, but anti - Jew and anti - Hindu as well. The example to the latter is the propping up the puppet regime in pakistan, the direct consequence of which is terrorism in the Indian state of Kashmir. pakistan also is the largest breeding ground of terrorists after palestine. And these terrorists do not confine their operations to India alone. They are completely international. We cannot blame the whole of America. Yes, we can pray that the policy makers see the obvious.

arjun.sevak

i do not blame the whole of America i only blame the American Goverment and the policy makers who have also killed christians serbs when American invaded kosovo to give kosovo to muslims yes muslims albanian scum are killing serbs and destorying orthodox church's but also the American military bombings also killed 3 thousand serbs so how can we say American policy is any better then islam when also the American goverment is also killnig christian orthodoxs i think both are as evil as each other if it was not for America kosovo would still belong to serbs not albanians you cant just blame the muslims alone

pissedoffcanadian:

The fact that the Yugoslavian girl I know holds a strongly different opinion from the Yugoslavs YOU know underscores the reality that if the Balkans people had generally agreed amongst themselves they would not have been at war, would they? I am quite put off by your propensity to suppose that ONLY YOU CAN BE RIGHT. I am sure other people here have told you as such.

BTW----

If the Milosevic regime's wartime policies had been restricted to fighting jihadists in the Balkans (especially Albania, Bosnia, and Kosovo) I would praise him. But I happen to know that this was NOT the case, and therefore I can NOT and will NOT credit him --except for corruption, as he was arrested on numerous corruption charges in 2001.

As for the other aspects of the Balkan conflict, I see no persuasive evidence that:

1-) Milosevic's regime had at any time attempted to settle Balkan regional disputes peacefully.

2-)Serbia (or Milosevic) had any particular right to rule over the entire Balkan region.

3-) the former Yugoslavia was ever an ethnically cohesive or stable region.

4-) the Balkan region's problems (With the exception of jihad) could not have been settled peacefully or diplomatically over time.

5-) non-Serbian ethnicities were obligated in any way to accept Serbian rule in the Balkans.

6-) Milosevic's brutal tactics against non-Serbs were generally justified (and that is what I think killed Yugoslavia's chances of success not the United States which has emerged as a popular scapegoat).

7-)former Yugoslav republic SHOULD have remained a single nationality. The Balkans are remarkably similar to Iraq in that they show what how artifially created republics mixing unfriendly ethnicities together can breed tragedy.

The fact that Milosevic operated with such an iron fist coupled with the fact that virtually every major Balkan ethnicity declared independence from Yugoslavia (read: Serbia and the Milosevic government) convinces me of Serbia's unfitness to preside over the Balkan region.

I support the Serbs' right to rule their historical territory but nothing more. And territory is a contentious point in the Balkans. But again, that does not mean bloodshed would have solved anything here.

By the way, I have no idea who Tudman IS. I doubt it would make any difference to me.

I picked the name Pythagoras because that was the name of my father's old DOG. I have no Slavic or Greek blood in my ancestry at all. Nor is it necessary to in order to find distaste with Milosevic's tactics.

In my view, Milosevic was an unjust tyrant who unnecessarily massacred thousands of Balkan people and virtually drove Balkan ethnicities to abandon Yugoslavia. Even if he did fight jihadists.

Your an idiot. You can't argue with an idiot. You know shit about the conflict. You just admitted you don't know who any of the major players in the conflict are. You only know the one guy in the newspaper headlines. WOW

Pissed off canadian:

Ho hum!

Pissed off canadian:

I do not believe anything you have posted on this topic.

And you have a vile mouth.