Michael Gove is correct that "the British State has failed to tackle the underlying ideological currents that favour Islamism." But the real problem is still deeper: the British State, and all Western states, have failed to tackle the sources of those ideological currents, and to realize why "moderates" like the MCB, with whom they are so desperate to collaborate, so often turn out not to be so moderate at all.
From the TimesOnline, with thanks to Ruth King:
THE BRITISH State has come under severe criticism following the Forest Gate raid for its intelligence failures in the fight against terrorism. But the biggest failure of all in the battle against Islamist extremism has gone practically unnoticed.Tony Blair has acknowledged that the fight against Islamist terrorism cannot be restricted to a police action against isolated individuals or small groups. Last summer he spelt out that a much broader effort is required to tackle, at root, the ideology of Islamism that has bewitched so many minds. But in the struggle against extremism the British State has failed to tackle the underlying ideological currents that favour Islamism. Organisations such as the Muslim Association of Britain (MAB) and the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), whose members have shown sympathy for extremist positions, are rarely challenged, and certainly not publicly by the Government or its agencies.
For moderate Muslims the picture is dispiriting. They see the most religiously conservative and politically provocative groupings enjoy the lion’s share of attention and they wonder how serious the British State is about countering extremism. How can they convince young men within their community that the path of moderation brings respect and a voice in the nation’s deliberations when the most influential voices are seen to belong to those with radical agendas?
In Islamist circles a complementary message is absorbed. The British State does not have the courage to face down the advocates of political Islam. Islamists in Britain scent weakness. Just as Islamists abroad believe the West does not have the stamina to resist for long, so Islamists within the UK believe the momentum is with them. Islam’s Leninists have drawn the bayonet, probed, and found mush.
Michael Gove makes some good points, but he isn't quite there yet. He appears to believe that the immoderate, "Islamist" Muslim Council of Britain is not representative of UK Muslims, the latter being, of course, moderate.
In reality, it is moderate Muslims who seem to be the exception, and they do not fare well. Charles Moore writes in this week's Spectator about the fate of a genuine moderate, Dr Abduljalil Sajid. The Spectator is subscription only, but the relevant extract is reproduced in full here.
I already mentioned this Gove article in an earlier post.
To be sure, Gove kicks the government a bit - although that's par for the course, as he's with the opposition. But he seems to have bought the lie that the only worry is a "tiny minority" of extremists and there is no problem with what "mainstream" Islam teaches. It wouldn't have hurt him to have informed himself better before commenting.
Sharia law gets a foothold in the UK...
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
If that was my bank, I'd be taking my business elsewhere very quickly.
Still looking for that mythical "moderate muslim"- found one lately?
Still looking for that mythical "moderate muslim"- found one lately?
- sheik yer'mami
I did once, he was riding a unicorn and discussing Kierkergaard with a leprechaun. I recall tiny lilac snowflakes were falling straight up into the sky which was an odd shade of teal that day. A fitting backdrop to the echelon of Wessex Saddlebacks I saw winging their way East for the Autumn . . .
The 'endless circle' goal, from the same TimesOnline article:
"And in so far as remedial action was required, it seemed, again and again, to consist of more public money going to exclusively Islamic bodies that would be empowered to provide more Islamic solutions, in accordance with appropriate Islamic principles."
Mr Krabs' link to a Lloyds TSB poster revealing sharia banking is appalling. Here is a link from the Llyods TSB site with a few more details.
http://www.lloydstsb.com/current_accounts/islamic_account.asp
Lloyds TSB is one of the largest banks in the UK with millions of personal account holders. I have an account with them and will be closing it after over 20 years of banking with them. I will likewise advise everyone I know to do the same.
Turns out Lloyds are not alone. HSBC also dance to the Sharia tune http://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/personal/current-accounts/more/amanah-finance
Lloyds are not alone. HSBC also dance to the Sharia tune
Which is yet another reason why I think the Forest Gate bruvver'z insistence that the £38,000 in used notes hidden in the suitcase in their row of terraced houses was there because their dear old Mum was too religious to use a bank was b,b,b, er balderdash!
The Muslim community has access to the levers of power in UK society: the uppompeii blog mentioned above referred to the government's failure to make forced marriage illegal (!) while pressure from Muslims defeated the Labour MP Anne Cryer's attempt to raise the age limit for marriage to spouses from abroad to 21. It was raised from 16 to 18 instead. Even then the MCB complains about the poor 16 and 17 year old girls who who are being fored to wait until the can marry someone who, more often than not, they had never met.
The UK has 4 Muslim MP's(not including Galloway),
5 Muslim members of the House of Lords and 1 Muslim MEP and over 200 local councillors. Accordintg to the editor of Muslim Nes says the number of MPs needed to reflect the religion as a probortion of the population is 20. That number could quite easily allow them to hold the balance in a hung parliament - which is rather frightening.
It looks like only Barclays bank doesn't provide islamic banking in any way.
Am I correct in this assumption? Does anybody know?
Is it good-bye Great Britain? I hope not. Nevertheless, our naivté and ignorance of Islam allowed us temporarily to be taken in and for Muslims "to direct the debate". Obviously the concentration of Muslims is greater in the UK and in Europe than in the United, that have learned from their mistakes: Islam will never be allowed the same latitude here.
"Tony Blair has acknowledged that the fight against Islamist terrorism cannot be restricted to a police action against isolated individuals or small groups. Last summer he spelt out that a much broader effort is required to tackle, at root, the ideology of Islamism that has bewitched so many minds."
How about starting at the roots, Mr. Tony B. Like mecca, like medina, like karbals.
Oh, there are moderate Muslims. Millions of them. So what? Does he represent the faith? Is he is the vital part of Islam? the growing part? Is it safe for him to offer his critique? What we are talking about here is the non-practicing adherent of a faith. Christians and Jews have many adherents by birth or identification only. Islam is no different.
What is different is Christians can offer critique on the 'Christian Right.' and not get their head lopped off. Maybe they don't live the same way, but they don't resort to violence. Same goes for Jews and other religions. Islam is different. The Muslim by birth, drop outs ect. are not the vital core of Islam. They can influence or try to argue against Islam with great bravery.
The fact there are 'moderate Muslims' means nothing. They have no influence. They are a minority. They, sadly, are in the distinct decline. They don't influence Jihad or Jihadi tendencies. They are a moot point. They probably don't have 8 or 9 kids either, so their numbers will only decline further. See Turkey for further demographics examples of this.