UK Muslim leaders condemn killing of "innocents"

Um, "Over a year after the July 7 bombings"?

http://www.centralmosque.org.uk/?page=news&news_id=mosque_2006-06-21_0001

Straight from the horse's mouth.

http://www.centralmosque.org.uk/pubs/thedawn/200409-The%20Legacy%20of%20September%2011th.pdf

More from the same people. The first article is by one of the main signatories to this statement. He holds some rather odd but unsurprising views on 9/11.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

"..Islamic behaviour in all situations.." thats a good one!

and from the second link: "Our strength lies in our ideology.."- thats even better. Even the demagogues of the this death-cult prefer to call Islam and ideology rather than a 'religion...'

Anyway, the whole fatwa thing is crap.

The whole polemic about "killing innocents is forbidden in Islam" is crap. They are roasting each other (all good muslims) by the thousands in Iraq, and thats just 'sectarian violence...'

...when it comes to infidels and Jews and the hated 'polytheists' there is even less pretense, because a proper Mohammedan is taught that 'unbelievers are the worst of creatures' and "killing unbelievers is a small matter to us..."

Internment and deportations! NOW!

Lets make an end to it and get rid of the Islamic spook!

The taqiyah is in the use of the word "innocent." We are all guilty if we are not Moslems. Indeed, the fact that the learned immams found it necessary to add the words: "the action of the UK Government in Iraq had caused anger in the Muslim community but there is a "resolve to guide the Muslim response in accordance with good citizenship" says nothing about what methods the immams will advocate to resolve this understandible "caused anger."

Re: UK Muslim leaders condemn killing of "innocents"

This reminds me of Clintonspeak where words have a radically subjective meaning and do not describe reality.

This constant distortion-contortion of reality has to take its toll on the mind after a certain point and warp the sense of reality. Such pretense to candor binds the mind and harms the free and creative spirit that God has given us as a gift. The disimulation is foot binding for the head.

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/images/bndfeet2.jpg

To accept the statement at face value is not adequate.

The signatories should also be required to define "innocent" and sign up to their interpretation of that meaning also.

Sorry if that is cynical of me!

What about "civilians" who could be interpreted as "making mischeif in the land"? The only people who should take any comfort from this statement are observant Moslems.

Animus, you beat me to it. I made this point a month ago on Harrys Place. This is so worthless its laughable and should be treated with the comtempt it deserves.

...their statement condemns the killing of "innocent" civilians, and does not address the fact that some Muslim clerics have on more than one occasion declared various populations of Western civilians to be not innocent...

Well Mr. Spencer, Hugh, why do you think the UK Muslim leaders and the Fiqh Council of North America's condemnation of terrorism is so vague?

I believe I can predict what most of the usual posters here will cite as reasons -- I most likely will be of the same consensus -- but I would also like to be reminded of your insights.

At the moment, I am in need of scholarly and authoritative insight as to motives, secondary gains, and so forth -- for the islamic leaders obvious duplicity regarding this issue.

Who do they think they are selling lemonade to anyway?

Why do they refuse to get to the point?

Why the silence from the islamic moderates?

Thanks in advance.

This is transparent. As a condemnation of the deliberate killing of civilians, it is meaningless. It has meaning only as an attempt, after the realization is dawning that too many non-Muslims are beginning to find out too much about Islam, to shore up the Muslim position in England (and other Muslims in other Western countries are doing the same phony thing, at long last, and with enough loopholes so that the Muslim audience will not actually come to believe that the killing, say, of any man, woman, or child in Israel is wrong, or the killing of any Danish tourist walking around the souk in Cairo is wrong). Say just enough to please the most naive and unwary of Infidels, and so that it may be quoted in press releases.

That's all there is to it. Sickening.

Why didn't they just say "civilians", period, "may not be targeted"?

By specifying "innocent" civilians, they imply that there could also be another kind of civilian.

The "guilty" ones.

Who are they exactly?

Will the British press ask?

The future dead would like to know.

Folks, could it be now that the Muslim communities in both the USA and in the UK realized that there is a growing backlash against all things Muslim and they are trying to put the fires out with these condemmnations?

The anger of the Muslims is probably distortion of reality.

I am wondering why the clerics and their flock have become so "calm" in the face of the "provocative" behavior of the UK police, especially in light of the recent raid against the two Muslims who "Mr. Very Nervous" Informant" warned were preparing a lethal attack on "innocent civilians" with a chemical filled vest.

Could it be that the clerics are aware that the UK police are investigating "Mr. Very Nervous Informant" and his clerical connections, that the police know that it was all a set-up to harm their ability to investigate Muslims and thus prevent another 7/7 in London and elsewhere in the UK?

I have a hunch that the story of the recent raid will show that the UK police were set-up and framed. I would not be surprised if some of the signers of the declaration re "innocent civilians" were also involved in the frame-up of the UK police.

I have a strong intuition that I'm right on this.

We waste precious time worrying about what Islamic leaders profess in public. What they profess behind closed doors is what I want to hear.

Are murdered Israelis innocent civilians or just civilians?

Ask Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, welcomed to Londonistan by Mayor Ken Livingstone...

Celsius-

This Livingstone seems like the highest evolution of an eel. Mayor Livingeel....

http://www.digital-eel.com/images/de_xmas03_wall.jpg

http://www.coralreefnetwork.com/stender/diving/wakatobi/blue eel small.jpg

http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/delaware2/images/oldpics/2004/eel feelings.jpg

I used my new fangled online Muslimspeak translation engine and put the following quote in to find out the real meaning:

"It said the action of the UK Government in Iraq had caused anger in the Muslim community but there is a "resolve to guide the Muslim response in accordance with good citizenship."

This is what came out:

"We WILL retaliate against the Zionist Crusaders for their crimes. But our army isn't strong enough yet so Muslims must continue to pretend to follow their laws until we're ready ..."

Islamic leaders across Birmingham have issued a joint message against terrorism in a bid to tackle mistrust of Muslims in the UK.

Whenever Muslim leaders say anything halfway decent, their concern is always for the image of Islam, and for Muslims. They are not condemning terrorism because it is wrong, but because it causes "mistrust of Muslims". In any case, as has been pointed out, this is a very qualified condemnation, unlike the full-throttled condemnation by Muslims of any counter-terrorism measures taken by the police or the Government.

It is appropriate to mention here, though it has been posted on another thread, that, to mark the anniversary of the July 7 murders, an exhibition, Islam Expo, is being staged. The exhibition is a full-on taqiyya fest. See here for details of the exhibition, and also of what some Londoners, including Granny W and myself, are doing about it. Please lend a hand where possible to our counter-dawah.

The 'condemnation' did not address just the UK's actions in Iraq as a motive for Muslim anger.

Surely they addressed Palestine, too, didn't they?

Yep. And Afghanistan, too.

From Bert Preast's link above:

Religious Edict by Muslim scholars in Birmingham
Date:17th June, 2006

We, the leaders of the majority of the mosques in Birmingham, have discussed and considered the existing situation of fear and mistrust in the country and feel that there is an urgent need for dialogue and understanding between the communities as well as the Muslim community and the political establishment. We believe that, for the progress of our people, the country needs an approach of inclusiveness and not alienation. We have, therefore, decided to take the first step and state categorically the Muslim position on issues where there seems to be some confusion amongst media, public and the political leadership. We, therefore, issue this religious edict and state for all concerned that killing of innocent civilians is absolutely forbidden in Islam and anyone who contemplates or commits any such act, does so against the teachings of Islam.

We have taken upon ourselves to regulate the activities of every mosque to ensure that people are given the right message of calmness, civic responsibility, citizenship and Islamic behaviour in all situations. Let us also state openly and frankly, that at this time, actions taken by our government in Afghanistan, Iraq and its attitude to the situation in Palestine has caused dismay, disbelief and anger in the Muslim community. We feel that there is a need for sensitivity and respect on all sides. We have stated the religious position without any reservation, we have stated our resolve to monitor and guide Muslim response in accordance with the principles of Islam and requirements of good citizenship. We are confident that all mosques in the country will support our stand and join us in this effort.

This resolution was adopted at a meeting of religious scholars and Muslim leaders representing majority of the mosques in Birmingham and neighbouring areas. The meeting was held at the Birmingham Central Mosque, 180 Belgrave Middleway, Birmingham B12 0XS on Saturday 17th June 2006 at 7.30 pm. It was also decided that, henceforth, this body will act as a representative council of mosques in Birmingham and will be available for any dialogue and discussion in future. All enquiries may please be directed to the Birmingham Central Mosque at the afore mentioned address:
(Telephone number 0121 440 5355,
email address : enquiries@centralmosque.org.uk).

Signed By

Qari Muhammad Ismail - Imam Birmingham Central Mosque
Dr. M Naseem - Chairman Birmingham Central Mosque
Maulana Abdul Hadi - Jamiat Ahle-e-Hadith
Mr. M. Sarfaraz Madni - U.K Islamic Mission
Mr. M. Bostan Qadri - Confederation of Sunni Mosques
Mr. M.Saleem Akhtar - Central Mosque Ghamkol Sharif
Mr. Sulman Mohammad - Hamza Mosque Moseley
Mr. Ashfaq Ahmad - Masjid-e-Umar
Mr. Shamsul Haq - Abdullah Bin Masood Mosque - Sparkhill
Mr. F. Mohammed
Mr. Imran Rekmi
Mr. Ikramul Haq

(The Signatories jointly represent about 150 mosques in Birmingham and surrounding areas)

And, I've already sent an email asking them to stipulate, precisely, which civilians are NOT innocent.

"Are murdered Israelis innocent civilians or just civilians?

Ask Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, welcomed to Londonistan by Mayor Ken Livingstone..."

Posted by: Celsius

No, any Israeli is fair game. I have heard them say that. Any pregnant woman is a good target because she and her unborn may be members of the IDF one day. By this "logic" any Israeli is ok. I guess even the elderly.(maybe Israel has a geriartric army unit? lol!!)

Foehammer: as always you are right. We are wasting time. Double talk as always from them.

Guys,,,,, just come Downunder. We welcome you:)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/06/why_i_love_australia.html

check out Krauthammer:

Why I Love Australia
By Charles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- In the Australian House of Representatives last month, opposition member Julia Gillard interrupted a speech by the minister of health thusly: "I move that that sniveling grub over there be not further heard.''

For that, the good woman was ordered removed from the House, if only for a day. She might have escaped that little time-out if she had responded to the speaker's demand for an apology with something other than "If I have offended grubs, I withdraw unconditionally.''

God, I love Australia. Where else do you have a shadow health minister with such, er, starch? Of course I'm prejudiced, having married an Australian, but how not to like a country, in this age of sniveling grubs worldwide, whose treasurer suggests to any person who "wants to live under sharia law'' to try Saudi Arabia and Iran, "but not Australia.'' He was elaborating on an earlier suggestion that "people who ... don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then they can basically clear off.'' Contrast this with Canada, historically and culturally Australia's commonwealth twin, where last year Ontario actually gave serious consideration to allowing its Muslims to live under sharia law.

Such things don't happen in Australia. This is a place where, when the remains of a fallen soldier are accidentally switched with those of a Bosnian, the enraged widow picks up the phone late at night, calls the prime minister at home in bed and delivers a furious unedited rant -- which he publicly and graciously accepts as fully deserved. Where Americans today sue, Australians slash and skewer.

For Americans, Australia engenders nostalgia for our own past, which we gauzily remember as infused with John Wayne plain-spokenness and vigor. Australia evokes an echo of our own frontier, which is why Australia is the only place you can unironically still shoot a Western.

It is surely the only place where you hear officials speaking plainly in defense of action. What other foreign minister but Australia's would see through "multilateralism,'' the fetish of every sniveling foreign policy grub from the Quai d'Orsay to Foggy Bottom, calling it correctly "a synonym for an ineffective and unfocused policy involving internationalism of the lowest common denominator''?

And with action comes bravery, from the transcendent courage of the doomed at Gallipoli to the playful insanity of Australian-rules football. How can you not like a country whose trademark sport has Attila-the-Hun rules, short pants and no padding -- a national passion that makes American football look positively pastoral?

That bravery breeds affection in America for another reason as well. Australia is the only country that has fought with the United States in every one of its major conflicts since 1914, the good and the bad, the winning and the losing.

Why? Because Australia's geographic and historical isolation has bred a wisdom about the structure of peace -- a wisdom that eludes most other countries. Australia has no illusions about the "international community'' and its feckless institutions. An island of tranquility in a roiling region, Australia understands that peace and prosperity do not come with the air we breathe, but are maintained by power -- once the power of the British Empire, now the power of the United States.

Australia joined the faraway wars of early-20th-century Europe not out of imperial nostalgia, but out of a deep understanding that its fate and the fate of liberty were intimately bound with that of the British Empire as principal underwriter of the international system. Today the underwriter is America, and Australia understands that an American retreat or defeat -- a chastening consummation devoutly, if secretly, wished by many a Western ally -- would be catastrophic for Australia and for the world.

When Australian ambassadors in Washington express support for the U.S., it is heartfelt and unalloyed, never the "yes, but'' of the other allies, perfunctory support followed by a list of complaints, slights and sage finger-wagging. Australia understands America's role and is sympathetic to its predicament as reluctant hegemon. That understanding has led it to share foxholes with Americans from Korea to Kabul. They fought with us at Tet and now in Baghdad. Not every engagement has ended well. But every one was strenuous, and many quite friendless. Which is why America has such affection for a country whose prime minister said after 9/11, "This is no time to be an 80 percent ally,'' and actually meant it.

letters@charleskrauthammer.com
(c) 2006, The Washington Post Writers Group

According to extremist (pure) Muslims, no one who pays taxes, contributes in any way to British society and is not in a state of permanent jihad, is in any way innocent that goes for the oldest to the youngest.

We are all targets because we are seen as part of the state.

Don't be taken in.

Frank -- I have noticed you've been suggesting a setup from the very beginning, and it's a very interesting theory. I think some of the evidence suggests the raid was compromised as soon as Police tipped off Muslim "leadership". The bruvvers may have been complicit in setting up the cops on a bogus charge, or they simply have been alerted to the investigation and allowed to sanitize their laboratory. This is just pure speculation at this point, but time will tell.

In another thread, a poster "Gary" speculates about the possibility that the bruvvers arrested in Florida for the 'Sears Tower' plot may have been conducting a different type of deception. Without giving these miscreants too much credit, the name of their sordid little prayer group was called "Sea of David" -- the name doesn't evoke Islam or Muslims on the surface. All of their relatives and neighbors are insisting these bums were a "Christian prayer group". ***

How much more muddied would the already confusing waters become in the West if a group of Muslims were able to pass themselves off as "Christian fanatics" in a mega-terror attack? Secular Zealots who already have the greatest difficulty telling the difference between Christians and Muslims would become a now completely unpersuadable sub-group in the West -- a group that would resist any solution other than the complete elimination of all religious practice in the West, something that would be unworkable, and completely unreasonable, given the intent of the Muslims to destroy Western Culture -- a charge that could never be reasonably levied against Christians since they are partially the architects of the Western World (tiny minority of extremists notwithstanding).

A successful operation of this nature, or the advent of some genuine crackpot Christian group or group claiming "Christian motivations" for their heinous act would so severely compromise our collective response that Islam could drive locomotives through the breach created in the Western edifice.

*** The great shroud of the internet rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago... I can't find any meaningful references to the "Sea of David", though there appears to be a horse in Australia sporting the moniker -- he doesn't appear to do very well in races.

I also want to condemn violence, OURS. We violently stopped the Serbs and inadvertently empowered the moslems, we were wrong and we owe the Serbs an apology. We regulars know the entire moslem nation approves of terrorism, their statement condemning the killing of "innocent" civilians, is whitewash. It covers for a while but wears down quickly and does not fool anyone or cover the problem.

The problem is in the translations of arabic words and the western excepted usage/meaning as opposed to the arabic understanding of their usage. Here are English phrases and their actual definitions, all are commonly used by muslims. It is important that people learn the correct Western usage and not be fooled by Muslims:

freedom fighter = active terrorist
foreign fighter = active terrorist, targeting mostly iraqi’s (rarely targets coalition troops)
jihadist = honest muslim, (doesn’t lie about his goals)
insurgent = active terrorist
madrasa = terrorist training area
mosque = headquarters or tactical operations center
muslim = terrorist or terrorist supporter
muslim cleric = paid terrorist supporter
muslim leaders = terrorist hierarchy and main spreader of muslim propaganda
muslim communities = large group of terrorists or supporters
muslim response = lies
muslim press release = lies/propaganda /cover story
muslim propaganda = more lies designed to fool stupid western leaders (usually works)
mujihid = single murder
mujahdeen = group of murders

There are more but feel free to spread this around so other English speakers will understand what the muslims are actually attempting to communicate with their press releases.

Ronin = little pawn in a much bigger game (also part time thorn in islamic foot)

jsla-

I do not by nature let feelings-intuitions rule me. I look at facts. But every once in awhile I grasp a knowledge that has not come via reason (most people know the feeling).

I remember as I read the article re the raid, read it describe the informant as "very nervous" (it seemed that this was typical of his behavior in his encounters with the police) the thought ran through my head "he's a plant, it's a set-up." I just knew the raid was going to turn out to be a dud.

I have a strong hunch "Mr. Very Nervous Informant" is the key to umasking a lot of fraud on the part of the clerics. This whole thing was a set-up of the police.

I got the same visceral reaction when I saw a news-photo of the two Muslims, sitting hunched in their house, claim that that their only crime was "being Muslim"-their whole demenor gave me the creeps. Something is wrong with the whole picture.

Now all thats needed is for the USa and his whores to do the same, people might not realise this but the media are restricted on what they can show, and evrything done by the barbarians is watered down, in the UK and even more so in the USA, Colition bombs kill hundreds of innocent people on a weekly bases, however these are not reported. Lessons learned i would assume from Vietnam, when the media were reporting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but that led to mass demonstrations, so to avoid the same, the USA restrict most reporting about the casual bombing of civilains.
So what they show is the killings of a civil war orchestrated by the USa, so people are decieved into thinking that the USa and its whores are there on a peacekeepin exercises

Gramfan:

That Krauthammer article lightened up a rainy morning. Very nice.

Let's hope the "hammers" of the West keep on hitting the nails with vigor and "starch".

I do know, from personal experience, that even in Australia, quixotic doves perch and preen and refuse to see the truth about jihad, the Qur'an and Islam. Hopefully there are few, but every Western nation has its blindspot. Even Australia, unfortunately.

With time and education, I hope that we can at least give those liberals some form of remedy or brain tonic, but I won't hold my breath for any sane outcome in regard to the flower-child mindset. We've got much bigger fish to fry.

"...Colition bombs kill hundreds of innocent people on a weekly bases, however these are not reported. Lessons learned i would assume from Vietnam, when the media were reporting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but that led to mass demonstrations, so to avoid the same, the USA restrict most reporting about the casual bombing of civilains.
So what they show is the killings of a civil war orchestrated by the USa, so people are decieved into thinking that the USa and its whores are there on a peacekeepin exercises"- Salahudin
------
Salahudin, that is false, a lie, and worse- a dissimulation from the worldwide attacks upon all, and civilians, by Islam- so here's the facts about Vietnam- next time lie better.

This from collier's and Horowitz's article:
Other Vietnam veterans did not share the views of Kerry’s retinue. Many despised a man whom they associated with Jane Fonda and other anti-war activists who had welcomed a Communist victory and America’s defeat. They remembered Kerry not for his military service, but for his widely televised claims that his comrades-in-arms were actually “war criminals” who deserved to be put on trial.
In a moment that displayed the anti-war Kerry in all his glory, C-Span re-ran the June 30, 1971 segment of the Dick Cavett Show, on which a young Kerry confronted another Swift Boat veteran named John O’Neill. The war was still raging in Vietnam as they spoke.  In an exchange that resonated with current events in Iraq, Kerry and O’Neill faced off:
MR. CAVETT: No one has said that there'll be a bloodbath if we pull out, which is a cliché  we used to hear a lot…
MR. O'NEILL: I think if we pull out prematurely before a viable South Vietnamese government is established, that the record of the North Vietnamese in the past and the record of the Viet Cong in the area I served in at Operation [unintelligible] clearly indicates that's precisely what would happen in that country. …
MR. KERRY:  There is no interest on the part of the North Vietnamese to try to massacre the people once people have agreed to withdraw. … I realize that there would be certain political assassinations, and that might take place. And I think when you balance that against the fact that the United States has now accounted for some 18,600 people through its own Phoenix program, which is a program of assassination, and when you balance that off against the morality of the kind of bombing we've been doing in Laos and the kind of destruction wholesale of the country of Vietnam, which amounts to some 155,000 civilians a year killed, then I think to talk about four or five thousand people is lunacy in terms of the overall argument and what we're seeking in Southeast Asia.[i][xiv]
In other words -- in Kerry’s view -- when compared to the Vietnamese enemy, Americans were the greater assassins and terrorists to be feared, while the Communists were only resisting a foreign occupation of their country, and were not interested in massacring anyone. History has now shown how wrong Kerry was (and how right John O’Neill and the Americans who opposed him were). The Kerry Democrats in Congress voted to cut off military and economic aid to the South Vietnamese and Cambodian regimes. Within four months of the cut-off, both regimes fell. The victorious Communists in Vietnam and their protégés in Cambodia then proceeded to massacre more than two-and-half million Indo-Chinese peasants, just as Nixon and others had warned they would. A hundred thousand were summarily executed in Vietnam – twenty times what Kerry had assured Americans they would -- while a million fled, half of whom died attempting to escape.  
But these lessons are not part of the Democrats’ current curriculum. This moral and human disaster they facilitated in Vietnam is remembered as a moral victory for “anti-war” sentiment instead. And so they intone “Come home, America” once again.  They draw tight the strings they hope will connect the false lessons Vietnam with Iraq --  “in telling and very tragic ways [they] now are converging” John Kerry claimed to the Take Back America conference – a gathering of the very anti-war veterans who brought us Vietnam.
Yes they are converging, but not yet on the field of battle where America is winning and the Zarqawi terror front is failing. They are converging here at home, where an anti-movement is hoping to win a majority in Congress this fall and cut off support for the freedom forces in Iraq. Let’s hope the American people will not listen to them and make the same mistake twice.

Friends come and go but your enemies stay the same, eerrrrrrrr, communist all the others deemed Evil by the USa have gone, yet america is still here telling people their the goods guys, and informing us on who the current evil guys are.

To all the brits here, i am completly against killing innocent people(civilians), and was disgusted by 7/7, islam teaches us not to transgress, and that no soul shall bear the burden of another, so in lehmans terms, someone killing your mother doesnt give you the right to kill theirs.
I have to say given my frequent travels on the tube, i was impressed by the dignity and forebarence of the public

salahudin-

You sound like another irrational member of the Low-IQ-Club.

I find it amazing that Muslims demand equality of rights (in the West and elsewhwere) that they will not give to others (Hindus, Jews, etc.)in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the Muslim world, and that Muslims seek to make dhimmis of people who don't believe (a belief is not a fact) in their belief system, and that so many Muslims can't seem to separate belief from fact, and treat beliefs as facts. Are you such a Muslim?

The biggest killers of “innocent muslim civilians” in iraq and afghanistan are other muslims and salad bowl knows it. The US and its allies account for relatively few of the casualties. What is also not reported by the MSM are all the victims of muslim on muslim violence that are routinely treated by western doctors free of charge.

The 'condemnation' did not address just the UK's actions in Iraq as a motive for Muslim anger.

Surely they addressed Palestine, too, didn't they?

Yep. And Afghanistan, too.

From Bert Preast's link above:

Religious Edict by Muslim scholars in Birmingham
Date:17th June, 2006

We, the leaders of the majority of the mosques in Birmingham, have discussed and considered the existing situation of fear and mistrust in the country and feel that there is an urgent need for dialogue and understanding between the communities as well as the Muslim community and the political establishment. We believe that, for the progress of our people, the country needs an approach of inclusiveness and not alienation. We have, therefore, decided to take the first step and state categorically the Muslim position on issues where there seems to be some confusion amongst media, public and the political leadership. We, therefore, issue this religious edict and state for all concerned that killing of innocent civilians is absolutely forbidden in Islam and anyone who contemplates or commits any such act, does so against the teachings of Islam.

We have taken upon ourselves to regulate the activities of every mosque to ensure that people are given the right message of calmness, civic responsibility, citizenship and Islamic behaviour in all situations. Let us also state openly and frankly, that at this time, actions taken by our government in Afghanistan, Iraq and its attitude to the situation in Palestine has caused dismay, disbelief and anger in the Muslim community. We feel that there is a need for sensitivity and respect on all sides. We have stated the religious position without any reservation, we have stated our resolve to monitor and guide Muslim response in accordance with the principles of Islam and requirements of good citizenship. We are confident that all mosques in the country will support our stand and join us in this effort.

This resolution was adopted at a meeting of religious scholars and Muslim leaders representing majority of the mosques in Birmingham and neighbouring areas. The meeting was held at the Birmingham Central Mosque, 180 Belgrave Middleway, Birmingham B12 0XS on Saturday 17th June 2006 at 7.30 pm. It was also decided that, henceforth, this body will act as a representative council of mosques in Birmingham and will be available for any dialogue and discussion in future. All enquiries may please be directed to the Birmingham Central Mosque at the afore mentioned address:
(Telephone number 0121 440 5355,
email address : enquiries@centralmosque.org.uk).

Signed By

Qari Muhammad Ismail - Imam Birmingham Central Mosque
Dr. M Naseem - Chairman Birmingham Central Mosque
Maulana Abdul Hadi - Jamiat Ahle-e-Hadith
Mr. M. Sarfaraz Madni - U.K Islamic Mission
Mr. M. Bostan Qadri - Confederation of Sunni Mosques
Mr. M.Saleem Akhtar - Central Mosque Ghamkol Sharif
Mr. Sulman Mohammad - Hamza Mosque Moseley
Mr. Ashfaq Ahmad - Masjid-e-Umar
Mr. Shamsul Haq - Abdullah Bin Masood Mosque - Sparkhill
Mr. F. Mohammed
Mr. Imran Rekmi
Mr. Ikramul Haq

(The Signatories jointly represent about 150 mosques in Birmingham and surrounding areas)

And, I've already sent an email asking them to stipulate, precisely, which civilians are NOT innocent.

Actually my iq at the age of 16 was 145, now due to being a severe skunk addict from 16-19, eg everyday morning, afternoon, evening and night, and taking a few knocks to the head my iq is now 124

Let's see....western countries invade two Muslim countries where populations are being abused by their fellow muslims.

They kill the bad guys (and sacrifice many of their own best and brightest in the process), spend billions on reconstruction, and help set up independent governments based largely on Islamic priniciples (barf). The western countries will be leaving once peace is fully restored.

My question would be, why are Muslims upset at this in the first place?

Why aren't they happy that their fellows have been freed from brutal dictatorships?

What does this say about Muslims and their beliefs?

But having left that life behind and turning to islam, im now track for a 1st class degree in Marketing with a minor in Advertising

Advertise this, Muslim thrall:

Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 233:
Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 232:
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

I heard Sulaiman bin Yasar talking about the clothes soiled with semen. He said that 'Aisha had said, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayers while water spots were still visible on them.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:
Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).

Explain the filth of your religion to us, the unsuspecting infidels. Explain your wretched filth stained desert vagabonds fascination with 9 year old genitalia, and his habits of spilling his genital outpourings all over himself. What was Muhammad doing? It's an interesting marketing dilemma, no?

Posted by salahudin: "But having left that life behind and turning to islam, im now (sic)track for a 1st class degree in Marketing with a minor in Advertising."

So, Mr Saladhead, you are pursuing an ideal course of study for a Mohammedan Apologist. After you finish studying and graduate you will be able to sell a pair of shoes to a legless man. Perhaps you will then be able to convince us that Mohammedanisn is a religion of peace.

i have already refuted these allegations on a previous topic board, upto 100 years ago the age of concent in the usa was 10, and seven in some parts, making no distinction between whether the child had reached sexual maturity, or not as the case often was. 1400 years ago the prophet(saw) waited untill aisha had reached sexual maturity before consumating his marriage with her.
why have these allegations of pedophillia been restricted to the 20 and 21st century, please explain, is because molesting PRE-PUBESCENT was not only common practice but also lawful(with the exception of islam) untill 100 years ago? and the prophet was the first to outlaw sexual activities with PRE-PUBESCENT girls!!!!!
make all your answers exclusive of bias, ignorance, arrogance and inclusive of logic and understanding

Sh#t on me once, it's your fault...sh#t on me twice it's my fault.

I tend to lose trust the first time someone lies to me. I lose ALL trust on the second. Muslims lie every time they open their mouths so they can NEVER be trusted. Their war manual, the koran, sanctions lying, so basically there is nothing they say that could be trusted.

Muslims , you brought this on yourselves. You're wasting your breath trying to cover up your lies.

We know you now.

salahudin-

It seems you may have exchanged one irrational skunk for another, and kow-tow to the irational-intolerant Skunk Heart located in Saudi Arabia (no equal rights to Hindus, Jews, etc there). All devout Muslims kow-tow to that supremacist-intolerant-skunk headquarters at Mecca.

I hope you do well in your school work. But stay away from losers, especially intolerant skunks- such as those in Saudi Arabia. They will make you a skunk, a dhimmi, or bring you to comitte genocide (as in the Arab slaughter of the Negro Africans in Darfur) and cry "Islamaphobia" as you slaughter them.

Maybe Muslims can accuse the people of Darfur of "Islamaphobia". Let's send CAIR over there to set things right and stop the Islamaphobia in Darfur.

http://english.alarabonline.org/display.asp?fname=2006%5C06%5C06-22%5Czalsoz%5C920.htm&dismode=x&ts=22/06/2006%2010:39:50%20%C3%95

Best of luck in your school work.

salahudin-

Other significant religious figures, including Jesus and Bhuddha, did not engage in the "activities" of prepubescent marriage, sex slaves, or rape.

Mohammed, on the other hand, was a slave to his carnal, not spiritual, appetites.

As is the man, so is his message.

"...the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, 'All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.'
"Then Jesus said to him, 'Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ '

150 mosques in Birmingham? Holy Moses!

How and when did this happen? I'm speechless.
I was in Birmingham in the early 70s, and don't remember any mosque, though I may be wrong since I spent most of my time there in discos and pubs.
Still, 150?

I'm simply quoting from your filth stained "religious" texts. Islam is unique in the Modern World for its depravity, and its insane carnality.

The guy was nearly 60, fiddling with the genitals of a 9 year old girl, onset of puberty notwithstanding. What the hell is any head of any so-called "religion" doing going around with his robes encrusted with semen stains, let alone making a hapless 9 year old girl following him around to clean them up?

REVOLTING. PORNOGRAPHIC. OBSCENE. ISLAM.

Great point jsla. islam is an obscene and sick cult.

So why didnt this encure in scorn of his enemies, non of those who called him the anti christ ect, ever critised his marrige to eisha, polegomy was critized yes, but not his marriage to eisha.
all laws evolve, and the child protection laws we have today, evolved from the prophet(saw) prohibiting sexual relations withg PRE-PUBESCENT GIRLS, if it wasnt for him the age of concent would still be 10 or 7 in the USA, regardless of sexual maturity

Mistake, if it wasnt for him we wouldnt have an age of concent FULL STOP!!!!!

And what does the bible say, also inform me of the Unholy bible's verses on rape victims, especially those who were virgins

and the prophet was the first to outlaw sexual activities with PRE-PUBESCENT girls!!!!!
make all your answers exclusive of bias, ignorance, arrogance and inclusive of logic and understanding
Posted by: salahudin

Explain why you muslims refuse to honor the prophets law all over the islamic world today? We both know child brides are common in almost all muslim countries, someone didn’t listen to your prophet or his commandments. Also, the issue is one of age, no culture anywhere at any time approved a 50 year gap between husband and wives except islam. No amount of whitewash can cover the crimes of mohammad the world best known pedophile. Stop insulting islam be proud of your prophet, so what if he was a pedophile, he had other skills, terrorist, murderer come to mind.

I find it fascinating you feel it is worth your time to lie about your own history especially since it was written proudly by muslims. Why defend yourself to infidels anyway? Why do you care if we call him a pedophile? You are in school trying to better yourself, I support that and can respect it. Don’t worry about taking any history classes you don’t have the aptitude for it. If you really feel it necessary to defend islam you should be in iraq helping to hunt down the insurgents before they finish the iraqi people off. We try had to save them but could use some help.

And also the sahih Bukhari hadiths are no doubt littered with a few false or fabricated hadiths,

Thanks for your posts -- this is the best way to spread the truth about Islam and the insanity of it's followers!

Salad, you're questioning your faith???

YOU'RE BECOMING AN APOSTATE!!

salahudin

"...i am completly against killing innocent people(civilians)"

Nice try. We're not fooled. Are you against the killing of civilians? (without defining civilians as innocent people)

Are Israeli civilians innocent people?

salahudin

"...i am completly against killing innocent people(civilians)"

If that were true you would join the Britsh Army and help fight the insurgents in iraq.

"i have already refuted these allegations on a previous topic board"

Impossible, salahudin. Uswa hasana, al-insan, al-kamil. Everybody else makes mistakes, but not Mohammed.

The religious edict makes clear the killing of innocent victims is against the principles of Islam.........( Innocent in Islam means Muslim...Just another Strawman from Islam...Non-Muslims are kafir (Unclean...Beast to be used by Muslim Humans) The war on terror is Islam..They are fighting two fronts one with Terror...and one to fool us into thinking they are not at War...Its a Twisted Twilight Zone kind of War...Islam kills our people...they butcher them...call for America to become a Muslim Country and give the world a press release calling for understanding and love Toward Muslims and Islam.. Mohammad (Pig Shit on him)Thought people sheep easy to fool and like sheep Islam wishes to herd to lead us into the Slavery of Islam.......America is not a place...Its an Idea that everyone is Free and has the right to be Happy....Many died to keep that right...Many are fighting now....Freedom is not Cheap...and Islam is not Peace!

Anyway Sven should drop beckham, ive been saying this for months, My England line up would be

robinson

neville(if fit) rio(if fit) terry cole

Carrik

gerrard Lampard

Lennon cole

Al sahih Rooney

this formation is very adaptable to the flow of the game, when England(was going to say we're) are attcking we can play 433, against teams who control possesion it can be 451,and 4321 when we get to attack, and against brazil ect when we need to hit them on the break it can be 4141, with lamps and gerrard bombing(hypothetically) forward, to join lennon and cole

Frank

It reminds me of communist speak/propaganda, like Zhdanov's "socialist realism," which was, of course, no "realism" at all, and a contradiction in terms.
Come to think of it, most, if not all, communist speak was a vehicle for "taqiyah," a way to dull reason and lull the people into denial of reality.

Salahudin, You are making the mistake that all non-Jews and non-Christians make. You are taking Bible verses out of context. Furthermore, If you haven't read the Bible in its original Aramiac or ancient Greek writing how can you possibly know what anything means? Therefore, you do noy know what you are talking about.

Hey, Saladhead, how does it feel to be on the other end of such a foolish arguement?

How easily people toss out IQ numbers. Tell me, Salahudin, what was the name of this IQ test scale that was used to mark your intellect?

Someone please enlighten me as to what "skunking" is. Sniffing aerosol cans or other similar agents?

regarding the very good question about whether israeli's are innocent civilans, i believe mrs Cherry Blair answered that one.

The British Amry will be glad to use your talents to defend islam, how many little iraqi children could you help save? Huury, salad join up, time is wasting.

salahudin,

Hey pal you're not really a Muzzie. You are just a normal guy who's had a difficult childhood and has ended up in the wrong crowd. Find yourself a loving Christian outreach group or Church.

Pelayo, and have you read the quran in arabic?
an example arabic has 600 words to describe the a knifes, each is used to described a particular type or slight variation amongst them.

for instance, anger means anger, but not all anger is the same. so two people could be described as angry, yet their anger could be quite different from one another, eg the anger of seeing your wife raped is different from the anger of the reckless driving of psychopaths in BMW'S(Im an Alpha Romeo brera man myself) or the the cause of anger vary, some anger spawned from frustration while some is a ntaural response to a situation, some anger can arise from hurt pride, yet regardless of the reason and cause of anger the english language will describe each of these as anger and angry people, where as arabic has many terms to describe the different types of anger. therefore when translating the quran a lot gets lost

salahudin,

You're angry aren't you?

Salad , have you even READ the koran or are you just going on some other muslims word? Do you research (I'm thinking you haven't) anything you're saying? There are a lot of people on this site who know WAY more about islam than you do. You can learn a lot if you'll sit back, read and research. You need to make an effort to learn this cult before you try debating the issue.

Ronin

Ron' on, baby.

Western Infidel: my childhood was blessed by love of my parents and the blessing of a personality which got me friends of all races and religion, it was my life as a jahil from16-19 that ruined me, and it was finding islam that rescued me

salahudin,

You're angry aren't you?

Posted by: western infidel...

And confused.

Salah

Do the Jews still practice Polygamy? Do Jews stone adulteresses anymore? Do Jews kill apostates? Do Jews Kill for not going to Synagogue?

No, they do not and you have to ask why?

Live and let live, who are Muslims to punish for spiritual crimes? Are Muslims righteous? I've seen footage of Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan having sexual congress with Donkies!

Mankind is sinful, can a sinful person judge righteously? The answer is no.

salahudin,

'...and it was finding islam that rescued me'

From what if I may ask?

ovidius_naso-

Good point. It does seem that the leftist collectivists (Communists), the European right collectvists (Nazis) and Islam have collectivism and deception in common.

It seems to me that the mainstream political "right" in America (Buckley types, Goldwater, e.g.)don't like government and have different roots than the right (Franco-Hitler types)in Europe. This anti-authoritarian right-wing in America (which probably has its roots in the revolution of 1776) has no counterpart in Europe-and that's a problem for Europe-where left, right and Islam tend to be collectivist.

Freewoman-

After Ibrahim Hooper and CAIR get back from Darfur (where I understand they are all wearing lapel buttons that say, "Stop the Islamaphobia in Darfur") they may become apostates and a fatwa will be issued calling for them to be turned into road-kill. Get ready for the Big Stink after they turn Apostate.

http://www.lodi.k12.wi.us/schools/HS/Trim/hollycandaceweb/SKUNK.htm

Muslims such as saladin just keep pushing the same laboratory buttons like one of those cocaine crazed rats -- the ones with wires sticking directly out of their brains. What he and all the hideous co-religioninsts like him fail to realize is that eventually the cocaine supply runs out, and the subject rat is disposed of.

With every pushing of the moral-equivalency buttons, and with every pushing of the "you're a bigot" buttons, and with every pushing of the "Islamophobic" buttons, the cocaine stream is gradually siphoned off -- eventually the bank on which Muslims have relied so completely will run dry. Like a crack addict who runs through his bank account -- that wealthy bank account funded by Westerners and filled to the brim with the currency of tolerance and patience, it too will run dry. We will no longer have the funds to cash their endless withdrawals from their displays of backwardness and their acts of stupidity and their barbarity -- When that account runs dry, as when the cocaine supply runs out -- the effects on the rat will be devastating.

So siphon off the vast reserves the West has deposited on your account! You are rapidly reaching the "Peak Tolerance" inflection point. The wrath which will lower on your heads will be, when it comes, irresistable.

As all the sophisticated experiments fail, like those in Iraq and Afghanistan, as we have illustrated for us the relentlessness with which the crazy and arrogant Muslims show us their contempt as we hold out our hands in friendship -- when this experiment fails, the hand you will see will not be so kind, Muslims!

We have the ways and means to bring you very low indeed. We just have barely begun to be roused, but keep it up! I welcome the bankruptcy of that particular account, and the unravelling of that particular store of cocaine for the addict rats of Islam.

It's a shame we can't just ban Arabic. That would seem to solve the Qur'an issue all by itself, if this nonsense that we always hear about the "proper Arabic translation" is true. But even I won't go so far as to penalize an entire race because of the actions of one cruel cult, no matter how much of a majority it might hold in the Arab world.

But can we at least recognize that the Qur'an can only be truly understood in Arabic, as the Muslims themselves so often state, so all the English language translations (French, German, etc) CAN be taken off the shelves? I think it's a rational idea and shouldn't offend any Muslims or Arabs if what they say is so true.

:)

So if a muslim drinks alcohol and call jesus the son of good, does that make his actions islamic? No the drinking breaks a law of islam, and the slander on Isa (ahs) makes him a non muslim. does the catholic who abortes her baby, represent the beliefs of catholics?

By TINI TRAN, Associated Press Writer
19 minutes ago

KABUL, Afghanistan - The U.S.-led coalition said Saturday that its troops and Afghan forces had killed more than 80 militants in fighting across southern Afghanistan. In one case, insurgents used civilians as shields to escape.

Salad get out their man, save those civilians, jeeez man you can make it safe for muslims. They need you more than we do. I'll defend islam on line for ya brother, get to your nearest recruiter. The British Army has fought bad muslims longer than we have, continue a proud tradition. God save the Queen!

Press on. Press on.

Salahudin

"regarding the very good question about whether israeli's are innocent civilans, i believe mrs Cherry Blair answered that one."

Cherie Blair is not a muslim. What do YOU think? You do think for yourself, don't you?

'Jihad Jack' cut, beaten in jail

Ummah News Links

salahudin'

What goes into a man's mouth does not make him unclean, but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him unclean.

From 'Jihad Jack' article
"You can talk about punishing the offender, but it also has consequences for their family."

---

Cry me a river.

salahudin,

But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man unclean.

Wow I have some Ummah news too:
By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 6 minutes ago

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Israeli troops moved into southern Gaza under cover of darkness early Saturday, rounding up two Hamas militants in the first arrest raid in the coastal strip since Israel withdrew last year.

Looks like with the help of brave muslims like salad bowl and our friends the Jews, islam is being taken back from the small percentage of misguided muslims causing all this trouble. You moderate muslims can help, please send donations to the Jewish Army, every bullet you buy will put one more bad misguided muslim down. We can save islam, hurry it’s not too late, support the Jews. They are saving mohammeds people.

It does not cease to amaze me how many in the West seem to be able to accept, from Islam, the very same things that will make them foam at the mouth if coming from Western peers. But most amazing is perhaps the level of hypocrisy of Imams and many Muslims, which delight themselves in the barbaric feats of Mo, The Pedophile. There is, however, method behind all the madness: the methodical and relentless work of the apologists of the Islam, bit-by-bit break the resistance of the West, driving many to accept their twisted logic, in which lies and murderous acts, once sanctioned by their ideology, are somehow invested of moral authority.

It follows that, more and more often, we see the ultimate authority to calm the barbarians being delegated to the very same people who instigate them in the first place, that is, there is an increased reliance on the Imams to tell their followers what can and cannot be done (probably to the delight of CAIR and other look-alikes). We already gave up our culture; we now hand over the rule-of-law.

Granted, murderous acts and outright lies, done once or twice, are just that, and generate only hatred and resentment. Repeated regularly, shrouded under the blanket of that twisted moral authority, they spawn acceptance and submission. As the onslaught escalades, people start to find that resignation and acceptance of the inevitable are the only ways to bring relief.

The damage to our Western identity eventually becomes so severe, that people will simply refuse to believe that such an enormous twisted evil can actually take place. At which point, docile and harmless, we’ll all be kissing the floor.

I am sure the readers here can identify many of these phases on current events. As it stands, I still believe we have a fighting chance, but it will take using the same tools and tactics, which include vocal, visible activism in favour of western values. We all have to do our part.

Have you been politically incorrect today?

salahudin,

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man unclean... Matt 15:17-20

15 injured in anti-Ahmadiya violence
Fifteen members of Bangladesh's small Ahmadiya community were injured when Islamist militants attacked a mosque near Dhaka

I am outraged, has Naseem seen this? Where were the police? How can this happen? Someone has to save these poor muslims (putting on my cape) ok, I am really going to a local sports bar to watch some sports and drink some brews but I’ll try and remember to feel bad for the injured muslims. Later, everyone.

Cheers!

I just think it's funny that salahudin/lionheart/ Khalid bin Nutball is a college student. He couldn't pass a middle school English course and has absolutely no chance of stringing together a coherent thought, skunked-out or not.

BTW, even if my granddaddy boffed young babes, a billion people don't revere him and hold him up as an example to emulate. Sixty-year-olds who fiddle with nine-year-olds are sleazebags in any culture or epoch, age of consent (please spell it right just once, dipshit) notwithstanding.

Following the example of Mohammed (may wet camel shit be upon him and his memory) the age of consent in Iran today is nine.

Pray tell, with which hand do Allah's minions wash off the jizz stains?

Salad, I'm sure you were raised up knowing the difference in right and wrong, so how is it you've become so confused and converted to islam? There is no right and wrong in islam. It is "whatever feels good to you men". How is that right?

There is no respect even for other muslims in islam. No respect for women. And you CAN'T argue on that one. No respect for children. No respect for non muslims.

Read your koran. It says hate , kill, rape, over..... and over .......and over again. And also, you want to join in a cult that believes the sun sets in a mud puddle and mountains hold down the earth? And you have to believe those two things to be a good muslim. If you don't believe that, then you are an apostate.

The prophet (saw) said the best amongst men are those who are good to their wife(wives). i admit muslims are very backwards when it comes to their women, but that doesnt represent islam, its cultural influences which the prophet eradicated, coming back to muslim societies

15 injured in anti-Ahmadiya violence

Ummah News Links

I fail to understand how the actions of the British (and US) government(s) in Iraq get the Muslim communities into a tizzy, but they never seem to care about Afghanistan.

But Muslims kill innocent, civilian non-Muslim non-combatants all the time all over the world (I mean look at all the ruthless killing being inflicted by Muslims on thousands and thousands of essentially helpless, innocent non-combatants in Darfur, Sudan). These 'British' Muslims in the above article are engaged in classic taqqiya; in short they're assuming the rest of the world is dumber then they are and can be fooled. For now it appears that they are right.

But the Muslims won't get away forever with fooling humanity. Not all of us are gullible and stupid.

The one thing the rest of the world can still be sure of about Islam is THAT IT WILL CONTINUE KILLING NON-MUSLIMS. That we can all be certain of no matter how much Islamic propaganda to the contrary the Islamosphere cranks out (which is a lot judging from the above article).

Salad why don't you enlighten us with your definition of innocence.

My bet is that you will not because it will demonstrate that in the eyes of Islam there are no innocents other than Muslims.

Are the polytheists, people of the book and disbelievers innocent?

Why don't you use that huge IQ of yours to illuminate us.

"And also the sahih Bukhari hadiths are no doubt littered with a few false or fabricated hadiths,

Posted by: salahudin"

The Hadiths of Bukhari are considered Sahih Sittah, authentic and trustworthy. The Hadiths are graded as sound (Sahih), good, weak and forged.

Basically, Bukhari's Hadiths are considered 5 star.

Frank

"I got the same visceral reaction when I saw a news-photo of the two Muslims, sitting hunched in their house, claim that that their only crime was "being Muslim"-their whole demenor gave me the creeps."

Trust your gut instinct. No need to apologize for it. I had the same creepy feeling. I was looking at two clones, two robots, devoid of any trace of humanity and individuality.

Western art, whether painting or sculpture or photography, has had a major role in
instructing us about the human face and body, expressions to be read in the eyes, the mouths, the eyebrows, in the placing of facial hair, in the posture of the torso or of the entire body.
Of course modernity has changed all that. I, for one, have to go back to Egon Schiele to see an interesting face--mostly his.

Photography still revels in the humanity of the subjects, and its main vehicle, the human face. Photography has taken over a domain Western art has largely abandoned. (Don't bring up Francis Bacon. His self-portraits all cater to the deconstructionist norms, not to the "humanist" ones.)

I'd give a fortune to own Eudora Welty's snapshots of Mississippians, in all their multifold misery and glory.

Freewoman; its been proven that mountains go deep under ground, the muddy pound thing is story telling, if i see a beautiful sunset on a tropical beach in the seychelles, mauritius, bahamas, fiji, or wherever would i not describe it as setting into the ocean.
the war verses are fight and kill them when in war, errrrm sounds logical to me, and i wouldnt begrudge a us commander telling his soldiers to kill the armed enemy, even if the war is illegal.
when we were leech like substances did u ever imagine that the moonlight was actually a reflection of the sun own light, or could you have contemplated that the salt and fresh waters had a barrier seperating them from polluting each other, could anything other than Allah have giving you knowledge that the universe was extracting.

this was pasted as i wasnt signed in when i tried posting it the 1st time,

There do seem to be a lot of non-innocent people in the world. muslims of one strip or another ( the difference is akin to the difference between a Kodiac and a Grizzly bear) are at war with their neighbors worldwide. Justified violence is only a matter of declaring someone, or an entire people, an enemy of allah. What a convenient rationale for murder..violence against women and anyone else who gets in your way. This thinking is so woven into their culture it will never be extracted. No hearts and minds struggle here, this is war to the knife and force or fear of force. When this is over there will be one hell of a mess to clean up.

i do care about afghanistan, however the Taliban deserved to get taken out, although i would have prefered it if it was muslims who did it.

Haid Dasalami; The language you use in describing your grand fathers predation on young girls is perplexing, one can only assume that you trivial description of such a things is due to a familiarity with it

Salad to say that women are treated badly because of cultural differences is a load of crap. Here it is in black and white from the Koran the basis for misogyny in your crappy religion.

2.228. Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

2.282. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that I f the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember.

4.11. Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females.

4.34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

And tell us who the innocents are salad.

the USA restrict most reporting about the casual bombing of civilains.
Posted by: salahudin at June 24, 2006 10:47 AM
+++++++++++++++++

salad

if the innocent muslims would not accept and turn in the terrorists, then they would not be killed when the bombs hit their houses where they have assited and hid the terrorists.

salad, if you are such a good muslim, go to iraq and help your fellow muslims, but you are such a coward that you will not.

On 9/11 after America was attacked by the cult of islam, I called all of the military services in America to enlist, but due to my age of 50 years I could not enlist or I would have been in afgan killing the enemies of America.

The lies and filth that flow from your mouth is more foul than the filth that flows from your anus. You have no credence.

The war with the cult of islam is inevitable for islam desires war to conquer the world and America and Americans will destroy the cult of islam before this happens. Go to this iste and see what General George Washigton had to say about America, WW3 and the defeat of the cult of islam. www.rexresearch.com/prophist/phf8usa.htm#PHF527

Prepare, be armed, be ready.

The Texican.
Freedom, the only choise at any cost and the cost will be immense.

ovidius_naso-

They looked shifty eyed. When people tell the truth (even if shy-maybe a little nervous) they look straight at people and the nervousness abates. These guys were hunched, almost clenched, and looked at the floor. They were tied in knots. That's not the look of people who are telling the truth.

You had the same reaction to them. I'm sure a lot of people have bad vibes about the whole picture.

There is a great scene in the movie The Fugative where Detective Gerard (Tommy Lee Jones)comes out of the one-armed man's house and realizes that Kimbell has been telling the truth. He looks at other the cops and says, "This one armed guy is dirty-real dirty." He tells the cops to put the one armed man on a watch.

These two Muslims and Mr. Informer need to be put on a watch.

Texican, you trying to get a raise out of me??

"Freedom, the only choise at any cost and the cost will be immense"

Is that america's definition or the universal one, does that include the freedom which means Saudi Arabia and all other oil producing countries can stop selling cheap oil to the usa, and sell to China instead.

Why dont you answer my questions salad, put that big IQ of yours to work.

Indeed, Islam makes it quite clear that dominance over the world is the only possible outcome for its faithful. It is reiterated to us all time and time again.

How then, may I ask, are we, as non-Muslims, supposed to reconcile with such a theocratic ideology that openly professes to bring about our own ultimate demise?

If more people actually understood the clear, irrefutable goals of Islam, and, if our own leaders would stop cushioning the blow in outright lies and snowfields of misdirection, the state of the world would be far more violent and upended than it even is right this moment. Most Western leaders probably mistakenly believe that this is exactly why we should keep hiding the truth, but I call them fools. You do not cover up the crimes of a serial killer in hopes that he will go away or move to a new neighborhood, so then, you should not cover up the crimes of an entire ideology simply because that ideology is so perplexing and foreign to the average infidel.

It is not so perplexing once it is studied. Islam is a very simple "animal". It wants to breed. It wants to feed. It wants to kill. It wants to migrate. It wants to control the pack.

I say kill this animal before it gets too bold: Western leaders -- start telling your people the truth or be damned by history as the last cadre of idiots that brought about the demise of the one truest hope of Earth in its most shining days. Islam will drag us all back into the 7th century if we do not deal with it in clear and determined strokes of the sword.

The wait is killing us all. Literally.

KM, Waiting period of 3 months before a lady whoese marriage was consumated can remarry; so there is no confusion over the identity of a childs father

Men get more inheritance than women beacause, A the woman doesnt have to provide, and its the mans responsibility to feed, cloth, and pay the bills, plus a man can marry UP 2 4 wives, so that explaines that.

As for the beating them, well i didnt hear of the prophet ever raising his voice, yet alone a hand to a woman.

Is that america's definition or the universal one, does that include the freedom which means Saudi Arabia and all other oil producing countries can stop selling cheap oil to the usa, and sell to China instead.
Posted by: salahudin at June 24, 2006 02:25 PM
+++++++++++++++++

salad,

when America goes to war with the cult of islam there will no longer be oil flowing from the middle east for ages.

As to the cost of Freedom, the cult of islam will realize what the cost of war is with America when America wages war with the cult of islam to maintain Freedom in America and across the world.

Prepare, be armed, be ready.

The Texican.
Freedom, the only choise at any cost and the cost will be immense.

Ole mo hit Aisha. In the chest.

And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that I f the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember.

Explain that one salad

As for the beating them, well i didnt hear of the prophet ever raising his voice, yet alone a hand to a woman.

As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

Even though its there in black and white in the Koran.

Now tell us who the innocents are.

Texican, Heres some more US hypocrisy 4 ya, to deter Korea from firing a missle, they fired one them selves, errrrrrmmm, OK, texican, u seem to think that the only people who hate the american goevernment and their corrupt nature is muslims, well your wrong, america are the first to form coalitions, so what will they do when one is formed against them, "The enemy of my enemy is my.......FRIEND" (What dissapointing film that was)and believe it or not in the real world, america has more enemies than Islam, from south and central america, to asia and africa, from the nation of Korea, to Iran, to the 10000s who have seen their loved ones killed, raped and homes destroyed in the name of democracy by the americanist extrmist BUSH, and all the other democratic christian extremist, who are twist and manipulate the ideology of the decent law abiding moderate americans

Innocent= victims of 7/7 and 9/11, all the children shot dead, by zionist israeli's, imagine that shooting a child. first you have to see them and aim your weapon at them, then u have to while looking at them shoot and shoot where it will kill, the countless more unarmed palestinians killed, the 100000s killed by the US and his subservient whores in iraq and afghanistan,

Salad, you're a silly man.

Stop dancing round the questions salad and answer them.

In regards to the US's enemies you are right much of the world is against the US because of their colectivist ideologies i.e. communist, Islamic the list goes on and on. And just because there are more of them doesn't make them right.

Now tell us who the innocents are!

salahudin,

C'mon buddy I've smoked that shit and it scrambled my brain for a day or two. I've also believed in every conspiracy theory going around from Kennedy's asassination to aliens crashing in Roswell. I'm off that stuff now. Gone in the search of TRUTH. It's amazing what you will find.

Innocent= victims of 7/7 and 9/11, all the children shot dead, by zionist israeli's.

Does your definition of innocents include those that were not muslim who were killed in those attacks. A simple yes or no will suffice

What about all the Israeli children killed by Palistinian homicide bombers are they innocent. Again a simple yes or no will suffice.

FREEWOMAN; please you havent answered my question, when you were a leech like substance in you mothers womb, did you realise that the moonlight was in fact a reflection of the suns own light, while you were a leech like substance did you undertand that there was a barrier between what is freash and pleasent to drink and what is bitter and salty. or could you during the leech like stage of your development into what you are now, comprehend that the universe was continuously extracting?

all children are innocent, and whoever kills a child deserve to suffer

all children are innocent, and whoever kills a child deserve to suffer

Posted by: salahudin [TypeKey Profile Page] at June 24, 2006 03:07 PM

What about the adults salad, where do they fit into your scheme of koranic justice.

And what kind of question is that about leeches. The koran is supposed to be the immutable word of Allah are suggesting he was wrong with some of his science becaude he had yet to grow and evolve.

Sorry for the typos.

salad:

So you can feel good about yourself proclaimed smugness,

America used two nukes on Japan to end WW2.

America will use nukes again if needed to save American and Americans. iran and korea are threats not only to America but the rest of the civilized world.

war with the cult of islam is inevitable and may just start with n korea.

you are not worthy of any additional comments for all you espouse is lies and filth as do most mos.

salad, you can be saved by crying out to the one and only true God for the salvation of your soul and live a life of peace.

i will pray for your lost soul.

The Texican.

Salad, you're a silly man.

saladin's "science" seems to be stuck somewhere between the stone age epoch and the age of the hunter-gatherers. (No surprise given that Islam is a Arab supremacist ideology designed to spread the culture of Arab barbarism and Arab backwardness to all corners of the globe -- and to annihilate other cultures and heritages in the process...)

Not knowing, and frankly not caring the slightest about saladin's racial makeup, I must observe how embarrassing it is to see such a cromagnon poster reveal the bottomless depths of ignorance.

If he be Arab, you'd think he'd be ashamed to rear his ugly head and reveal the darkness of his legacy.

If he not be Arab, you'd think he'd have an iota of pride in the superior culture from which he derived, that is, before Arab Islam came and degraded his culture of origin into another sewer of Arab backwardness and Arab stupidity.

But Islam seems to disencumber her acolytes of their Human pride, and their Human souls, and their Human intellects -- replacing them with shriveled raisins dry grass and stale turds instead.

Come on salad tell us if the adults are innocent, cat got your tongue or should I say have the logical inconsistencies of your death cult got it.

Freewoman; the leech thing was not an insult, but a proven fact about conception and the development of the embryo, so please answer my question

OK SO THAT YOU ALL UNDERSTAND, THE ONLY GUILTY PARTY IN THE 7/7 ATTCKS WERE THE FOUR SUICIDE BOMBERS, THE ADULTS WHO DIED, WERE WRONGED AND DIDNT DESERVE IT,

What about 911, as Americans were those victims innocent?

Salad, let me give you a little motherly advice...

Always wear clean underwear in case of an accident.

Educate yourself before you debate.

Get out of this sick culture of islam, it's making you sound insane.

And your leech comment didn't make sense.

the leech thing was not an insult, but a proven fact about conception and the development of the embryo, so please answer my question

Please tell me what leeches have to do with embryos. Leeches are invertebrates and in no way resemble a foetus.

Texican; is that the one and only god who died on a cross for the sins of mankind, yet every child is born sinful. errrrmmmm what happened did he change his mind while he was on the cross, or did he get beaten by the concept of sin, help me out here im trying to understand this god of yours, unless if your are of the blessed and the god u refer to is the one who never took a son, or walked the earth, anyway which one is it, was he god the son of god and thus the only true half breed

During the first stages of pregnency it does, in fact many scientist have reverted to islam due to this.

But that question was to FREEWOMAN, because she seems like she has read a lot of islamic liturature, and will have no dount come across those miracles of the quran

None of his comments makes sense, free.

Salahudin isn't just illiterate, uneducated, and simple-minded.

He is wrong about almost everything, and certainly about everything that much matters.

And there's not much sense in engaging him, because he's not intelligent enough to understand much of what you might say.

Dont change the subject salad, tell us about the 911 victims and the leeches.

Salad, I have yet to discover a miracle of the koran. There is not one. The koran is a comic book written for ignorant savage people.

Your statement about leeches in the womb is stupid.

You ask about the victims of 9/11, and my answer is simple, as an attack on 3000 or so civilans i found it disgusting, and it made me angry, but as an attack on the pride and ideology which the american government pumps out i thought ohh well

Haid, said all i have to say about you,

Yes, pride and ideology are the atrocities that deserve stern and vicious condemnation, but slaughtering thousands deserves a hearty "oh well."

Salahudin is simply nauseating.

Like I care. You can't even read my stuff.

During the first stages of pregnency it does, in fact many scientist have reverted to islam due to this.

No it doesnt, for pictures of a foetus goto.

http://www.wprc.org/trimester1.phtml

For a leech goto

http://www.hermes-press.com/leeches.jpg

All I can say is those scientists that converted after making a comparrison like that should not be scientists in the first place.

You ask about the victims of 9/11, and my answer is simple, as an attack on 3000 or so civilans i found it disgusting, and it made me angry, but as an attack on the pride and ideology which the american government pumps out i thought ohh well

Posted by: salahudin at June 24, 2006 03:56 PM

You still didnt answer the question were they innocent, yes or no will suffice.

Saladhead, Arabic is no different from English. Take for example the word "war." The Great and Noble Lyndon Johnson (PBUH) declared a war on poverty. We did not start bombing and shooting poor people. There is the War on Drugs; we are not randomly killing drug addicts. When I was a lot younger, about ten, and when I and my brother were especially unruly, my mother would go "on the warpath." I am still very much alive.

I'm getting sick and tired of this Mohammedan B.S. Arabic is no more complex than any other language.

As far as the Christian Bible is concerned some Christians have never read the Bible. They attend the "Church of the Burning Cross" whith a Pastor (Preacher) who is probably a graduate of the Waycross School of Divinity and Radiator Repair. Reverend F.A. Brimstone will read the ancient scriptures and tell the congregation what it means. The congregation will then say "Amen" in unison; immediately go out and burn an adult bookstore.

Is that how non-Arab Muzzies get the word of Allah?

Innocent of what? they were innocent as in they didnt deserve to die

And also during 9/11 i was not a practicing muslim, in fact i was quite the menace to society, so islam was not in anyway influential to the "oh well.."

Salahudin, I presume that based on the tone of some of the posters at this site who have said some very, very derogatory and blasphemous things about Islam, the Koran, and the Godfather, we're not "innocent" are we?

pelayo are you spainish by any chance?

Innocent of what? they were innocent as in they didnt deserve to die

Posted by: salahudin at June 24, 2006 04:12 PM

Innocent in the eyes of Islam? Specifically they were more than likely disbelievers, polytheists or people of the book.

How do you feel about those people being killed under the auspices of Jihad.

Yep -- saladin proved me correct again: In the place of a soul, a heart, and an intellect he's got shriveled raisins dry grass and stale turds.

I'm nauseated at the image he tries to conjure of "scientists" "reverting" to Islam after witnessing how "leechlike" is an embryo ... Sick.

Muslims, embarrassed for the inanities of their doctrine will go to any length to cover its heinousness and, after the fact, concoct the most intricate explanations for the mundane stupidities exhibited in the Koran, and worst of all -- usurp the righteous discoveries of every kind of advancement from the West and claim it retroactively for Islam: Muhammad, according to these cavemen discovered the atom, invented eyeglasses, discovered the heliocentric nature of the solar system, described nuclear processes. We see this lame trick at least twice above with the troll saladin's posts.

Somehow in his twisted pitiless mind when Muhammad molested the nine year old Aisha, fiddling with her in the bath when she first began her menses, we are told by this sick and droll Muslim troll that the fact Muhammad waited until her menses to first rape her is sole reason the notion of "age of consent" exists in the world today!

Preposterous. Perverted.

Then we are told that Muhammad's observations on the human embryo, which is also often held up by the uneducated and deluded thralls of Islam as "evidence" of the advanced "scientific basis" of the Koran has brought many "scientists" into the folds of Islam. Insane. It makes one wonder how many wombs this monster Muhammad clawed his way into? Wombs of the slaughtered pregnant women to pluck out the slumbering embryos within, to slather over with his insane mind -- worse than any Caligula. One doesn't want to, but in order to understand the heinousness of Islam one must then picture the psychopathic beast sitting under a palm tree pondering the quivering protoplasm in his hands with the fascination of Hannibal Lecter. The obscenity of it doesn't bear thinking about -- but this is the enemy we face in the Muslims. This is the bestial filth which spawned their "religion" of Islam. This is the "man" they worship. This is the underpinning of their heinous "religion".

Such things should not be allowed to persist in the world. They should perish utterly.

Re: UK Muslim leaders condemn killing of "innocents"

/i>This reminds me of Clintonspeak where words have a radically subjective meaning and do not describe reality.

That depends on what Islam is.

Salahudin, Have you seen the movies with Clint Eastwood and the orangutan? Well, I was the orangutan's stunt double. What the Hell does it matter what I am?

I'm not going to retell the history of Pelayo right now. Try Wikipedia or another source and you will know why I chose "Pelayo."

To see the Muslims attempt to explain away Muhammad's obstetrical talents and charms see this link. It explains how "scientific" the koran is, according her insensate "believers":

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm

Here's a link which shows the inmates of the asylum attempting to coopt the discoveries of "Geology" "Cosmology" "Atomic Energy" "Embryology" "Hydrology" "Dermatology" (*camel urine and dung were popular for all kinds of treatments -- both to apply to ones skin, and to ingest - Muhammad repeatedly "prescribed" these medicines):

http://www.islamdoor.com/viewart.php?id=54

It's frustrating to ask a question and get another question in response. I know it is a frustrating tactic because I have used it before. I'll try again.

Salahudin, I presume that based on the tone of some of the posters at this site who have said some very, very derogatory and blasphemous things about Islam, the Koran, and the Godfather, we're not "innocent" are we?

That leech thing really makes me laugh (did you take a look at those pictures salad).

To jsla,
You are probably right that Mohammed made that statement after clawing his way through the insides of pregnant victims.

Although he might have found a few unborn babies sifting through the discharge produced by miscarriages from his numerous wives. Either way both scenarios are disturbing.

KM, I feel that it was not true jihad, for one, treacherous attacks are forbidon, so you have to inform your enemy that you will be attacking them, and you attack their military.

The first two insane sites were authored by sincere and straight faced Muslims extolling Islam. If this doesn't send chills down your spine, I don't know what would.

Here's some other Islamic filth for readers to explore if they dare, this time from a site that is no fan of Islam. It discusses the pharmacopeia of their execrable "prophet" Muhammad:

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/shepherds.htm

"I feel that it was not true jihad"

salahudin, why don't you spend your time trying to convince your murderous co-religionists?

no but did the pictures show every stge of a pregnency, i bet not, even i what contitutes a leech like substance is a matter of opinion. what do u have to say about
Mountains being like pegs in the ground.
or salt and freash water not mixing
or the universe extrcating

But do your own research -- go to sites such as:

http://islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php

and explore for yourselves. This is a searchable site by Muslims for Muslims in English. Enter searches on all kinds of things you're wondering about, or matters brought up in this thread. See what Muslims discuss among themselves. Observe the preposterous interference tolerated by the Muslim thralls and insisted upon by their Imam at this site. These are the exact same kinds of "discussions" happening across the Muslim world -- this is Islam personified -- this is the system of Sharia which they love so much --

When do I cut my fingernails Imam!? What do I do with the fingernails after I cut them Imam?! Can I cut my hair? When can I cut my hair? What should I do with my scabs, cut hair, fingernails, etc afterwards Imam? How do I wipe my ass Imam?!?

It's insanity. But leave room for dessert. Drill down on the left side of the site unter "Purity". Read what passes for "cleanliness" and "puritiy" in Islam. It's anything but. Hardly scientific. Revolting:

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/cat.pl?c=Purity%20(Tahaarah)

Here's the area devoted to "Psychology":

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/cat.pl?c=Psychological%20and%20Social

Please read it. This is the enemy. This is the alien "culture" our leaders have permitted into our domain. This is the filth they continue to encourage to come here -- that they suggest we should set about spending billions upon billions trying to "win the hearts and minds" -- Hearts and minds that have been corrupted and destroyed by this retardation -- This is the alien ideology -- this insane belief system of Islam -- exemplified by the arrogant and deranged saladin above. This is the cancer that must be removed from our domain.

Saladin,Saladin
Know you are puzzled man
Who found Islam in Jail
With crafty Inman reputing to save
Your soul from the fires of Hell
With such a 'perfect' prophet as Mo
You have the perfect mandate to go
Rape,torture and kill
And have your fill
Of loot and booty
Koran says it is a duty
To relieve Infidels of their riches
And any of 'em who bitches 'bout it
Gouge out his eyes,slice off his head
Leave all Unbelievers dead
For this is what Mohammed did
This is how holy Mo got rid
Of all others in the Desert Sands
Who refused to yield to Mo's demands
Oh, peace upon our Prophet who took a horse
To get to Paradise of course
Where nubile girls and little boy 'pearls'
Wait for Mo's old withered dick
Yuk-just the thought makes me feel sick
Wonder what the houris thought of it...

Hold on muslims have condemed the killings of innocent civilians one year later, not apologising but condenming it,to inshalla prevent other misguided fools commiting evil in the name of good, And u lot are all here critisizing it, what would have happened if 60 or 1000years later they turned around and said, u know those bombings, were sorry.
condeming it will play on the minds of those who may do it out of being misguided, however there are sociopaths in all walks of life, and only a bullet from the met, or IIAA can stop them(IIAA= Internal islamic affaires agency)

Texican; is that the one and only god who died on a cross for the sins of mankind, yet every child is born sinful.
Posted by salad
++++++++++++++++++++++

salad since you requested, a short history leason.

Jesus Christ is the son of the one true God and was born, lived and taught upon the earth and was crucified by the unbelievers for all of the sins of mankind so mankind can have salvation from Jesus's death and resurection.

Three are no miracles or salvation from the cult of islam only filth, treachery, murder and death of the soul.

salad, you can be saved by crying out to the one and only true God for the salvation of your soul and live a life of peace.

I will pray for your lost soul.

The Texican.

"Btw, the only "religion" in world history that worships theft, rape, and murder is Islam. Sex slavery too."

Only a partial list, APF. There's much more and much worse. Genocide. The complete dehumanization of mankind.

Muslims surrender their humanity to worship Islam. They are less than human by their own choice. They choose to become degraded slaves to their demonic monster-god Allah, and then set about to drag everyone down with them into the cesspool.

As far as the Christian Bible is concerned some Christians have never read the Bible. They attend the "Church of the Burning Cross" whith a Pastor (Preacher) who is probably a graduate of the Waycross School of Divinity and Radiator Repair. Reverend F.A. Brimstone will read the ancient scriptures and tell the congregation what it means. The congregation will then say "Amen" in unison; immediately go out and burn an adult bookstore.
Posted by: Pelayo at June 24, 2006 04:07 PM
++++++++++++++++++

Pelayo, have you been spying again??????

Most Christians are literate, read and understand the Bible and try to follow its requirements, our actions or lack of actions can condemn us, but thanks to Jesus Christ our professions from out of our mouths and souls will save us.

I have read sufficinet of the vile evil filth of the koran - quran to understand that it is vile evil filth and not of the one true God. My soul finds the koran to be vile evil filth and unacceptable as is anyone that follows such vile evil filth. If you wallow in and eat dung you will smell like dung and spew dung.

The Texican.

Salad the site does show all the stages of pregnancy take a look and see if you can see anything that looks like a leech.

You would need to clarify what is meant by mountains acting like pegs. Do they mean that the pegs hold the earth in place. If that is the case last time I checked mountains are formed from the collision between tectonic plates. Tectonic plates moving against each other give you earth quakes so infact mountains are more associated with the earth shaking and moving rather than holding it in place.

Whats this nonsense about fresh and salt water not mixing. Of course they mix you just dilute the concentration of salt.

The universe extracting I assume means expanding, I dont know if that is great science, the natural world grows around us why not assume the universe does the same. I dont see any great revelation there.

Texican asked me if I had spying again??????

Well I'm not a spy but I have sat through some sermons on some verrrry hard pews. In an un-airconditioned church!!!!!! In July in the US South!!!!!!

Salahudin, I'm still waiting for that answer:

I presume that based on the tone of some of the posters at this site who have said some very, very derogatory and blasphemous things about Islam, the Koran, and the Godfather, we're not "innocent" are we?

Fresh and salt water not mixing?

You can't really be serious about this???????

In case you are, here's a link to an introduction to the hydrologic cycle.

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/hyd/home.rxml

Seriously, what do think happens when rain falls or rivers fun into the ocean????

You can even do an at home science experiment to test this hypothesis if you wish.

For some logic an rational thought do not apply. Do not waste time on those that spew forth fiction as fact. Focus on the unknowing or equivocating. When those same people reach positions of power, sadly, the bullets start flying. They have no other method of coercion and must be met with nothing less than the same, orders of magnitude greater. The jihadis have divided the nations of the west. Now they will conquer. We are letting them.

Jsla:

"Muslims surrender their humanity to worship Islam" should actually read "Muslims surrender their humanity to worship Mohammed..." that we have seen over and over again and since Mo invented "Allah" the whole cult is based on Mo's exploits and perversions.

From the Salad-troll:

"... it was my life as a jahil from16-19 that ruined me, and it was finding islam that rescued me.."

Mate, if you think "Islam rescued you" then you have really lost it: If you follow the Koran and the teachings of Mohammed you will either end up in Jail or dead. You know what Mohammed did: He was a bandit-chief and a crime boss, do you think you can save yourself from the law if you follow him???

As for "embryo like a leech and Saltwater not mixing"- this is debunked in great detail on Ali Sina's FFI website. Saladroll, when Mo tells you that "satan sleeps in your nose and jinns are pissing in your ears and camel urine is a cure for all ills" you should start wondering and to find answers away from that filthy book, the Koran, and away from the mosque!

As for the age of consent being 9 years old: Mo was indeed a pedophile and even his henchmen didn't approve of a 54 year old 'marrying' a 6 year old. So Mo suggested that they also take little girls instead of mature ones " so they can play with them"... As a result of Mohammed the child-molesters 'teachings' Iran, after the Ayatollah deposed the Shah, has lowered the age of consent to 9 years of age. I suppose other Islamo-holes are eagerly following and you approve? Got your 6-year old child-bride yet?
(Somebody please post the relevant hadith, anybody got it handy?)

salahudin,

"As for the beating them, well i didnt hear of the prophet ever raising his voice, yet alone a hand to a woman."

salahudin, would it suprise you that the Koran gives its blessings to the husband beating his wife or wives ( since he is allowed to marry up to four wives ) in Koran 4:34?

More trollish stuff:

"..Men get more inheritance than women beacause, A the woman doesnt have to provide, and its the mans responsibility to feed, cloth, and pay the bills, plus a man can marry UP 2 4 wives, so that explaines that..."

Well you can't: Its called 'polygamy' and its against the law. Neither are you able to provide for 4, let alone pay for all the offspring from such an undertaking. Taxpayers will not 'provide' for your islamic obsession. Try it and you will end up in the slammer...

jsla,

I've also read some of the material of those Islamic sites, and I share your view that they are expressions of a pathologically totalitarian OCD outlook on life -- and that's why I disagree with Robert Spencer's view that such parts of that outlook as, for example, Islamic dental hygiene, are innocuous. I put all such Islamic regimens squarely in the nebula of Jihad. Hugh so readily sees so many Islamic behaviors as part of Jihad, what is preventing him from similiarly identifying and condemning its 1,001 rules about teeth-cleaning, urinating, defecating, dish-cleaning, Dear Imam, what's the right shampoo for me to use?, are dogs permitted to be indoors even if I use that dog strictly as a guard-dog as Islam permits me to? -- on and on: let's put the whole shebang in the proper category: it's all Jihad. It all serves to inculcate the totalitarian psychology & sociology that undergirds their supremacism and marshalls their cohesion unto world conquest.

Next step on the asymptotic ladder -- or rather, off the penultimate rung of its climax: condemn Islam.

Salahudin, the problem is that if you put Biblical quotations back into their context, they only gain in moral terms, when you do the same with fragments from Qur'an you ...hmmm only makes things worse for yourselves.

Guys leave salad bowl alone he emailed me and wants to convert

pelaya; at the end of the day i know u will burn in hell, why am i gona get threatening over the internet!!!! but ive noticed two types of kaffirs in this room, some driven by blind hate and ignorance, and need to be told subconsciously by the politicians and media who to hate; and the others are just blinded. i wont insult isa, but and i wont insult christianity, coz it insults itself, u seem to forget that most of the things which the west critisize about islam, could be found in christianity, however christianity has changed many of the laws which god sent down, so what your saying is your god is THICK, errrrm his god,
errrrm i believe his god and accept him as the most powerful but i dont like this law so ill change it, errrrm right, u resent islam for not changing, and not bowing to the pressure's of society to change, if christian leaders were as strong maybe your religion wouldnt be predominantly man mad

I agree Television with the blanket 'anti' everything approach -- it's deadly for us to become enmeshed in attempts to salvage Islam for the Muslims -- such a calamity would doom us to their hell, and I think this is part of the Jihadi ploy of the so-called "Moderates" or peaceful Muslims. They are willing to exploit any act of terror by their evil brethren to spread more Islam -- We must not be drawn into this funhouse. And we must develop immunities to their dastardly ploys and methods, something sorely lacking today.

The task is gargantuan -- and though heroic progress is definitely being made, it's terribly and unacceptably slow. I have posted elsewhere that Jihad is somewhat similar to the A.I.D.S. virus -- a virus that specializes in knocking out the entire panoply of immune responses in the host, thereby making the sufferer vulnerable to all manner of opportunistic infections. Islam is the full blown disease -- the array of infections which ultimately murder cultures and societies.

The formulation for the masses must be simple and direct, shorn of all the fancy and incomprehensible lingo. They must come to be revolted at Islam. Perhaps this will only come about once the terror escalates to newer and more horrific regimes. This may all be inevitable, but I hope not. If irradiated sections of capital cities, and permanently poisoned subways and food supplies don't awaken the fight response, then the West deserves to die.

Ultimately Islam must be expunged from our domain, and huge civil wars fomented in theirs. Once again their projection that we were ready to be toppled is a figment of their inner and outer landscape. So far we've not been toppled, but we've barely begun to push back in their domain. But the time will come. Sadly -- it will come.

and by the way, which bible is it that u lot trust as the word of god? king james, queen mary, lucifers who. and what i really dont understand is if god or the son of god died on the cross for the sins of mankind, now would god let his child, or himself(as some beleive) be nailed to a cross for 3 days, think about it he must of shitted his pants, pissed himeself all over 3 days, no wonder you lot are always bringing up urine and defaction, your leader was full of it

I emailed salad a bible, he is sorry he fell into the islam trap

BTW -- excretion of Muhammad: you've already insulted and profaned Jesus repeatedly in this thread - even above by arrogantly failing to capitalize his name, or above that when you described him as: "the only true half breed".

You are a sinful Muslim worm. A Faithless Whore. An Accursed soul-less beast.

salad and I took a koran and used it to line a bird gage, the poor birds refused to use it as they has standards.

Jesus taught and believed all men could better themselves
mohammed believed and taught all men were sex starved idiots
I guess if I was an average sized muslim with a sub standard sized wee wee I would choose mohammed as he picked small children so they would not know his wee wee was smaller than a normal males.

Jsla my brother it is not his fault, his mother told him a little wee wee would draw the girls to him, he is just trying to figure out why mom preferred non muslim men.

if christian leaders were as strong maybe your religion wouldnt be predominantly man mad
Posted by: salahudin at June 24, 2006 09:31 PM
+++++++++++++++

as to man made religions, the cult of islam and allah are man made mental figments of the vile and evil black souled mohammed the pedophile's filth of a mind.

God give his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, to be sacrificed for the sins of the world even the sins of muslims for many can not live a life to meet God's commandments.

salad, all you have to do is pray to God for foregiveness through Jesus Christ, the son of God, and you will have salvation. believe, ask and receive. that is the way to salvation........

I will pray for your lost soul again.

The Texican.

Texican I must confess I know little about Jesus but I know muslims and I realize they are evil. Thank God salad is willing to put islam behind him and join the human race.

i have never insulted Isa, or jesus as u call him, i questioned the son of god concept, and stated that during the time he was nailed to the cross he must have shited and pissed himself, and that the shit and piss must of stayed there building up and sticking to his skin, i hope the last supper wasnt as big as people made out:;:

thats to those that have insulted my prophet first,

You know I was talking with allah today and after he showed me all the muslims burning in hell and stopped laughing at them he had this to say “watch those idiots burn, damn I am good”

Ronin, are u in fact bush in disguise

"he must have shited and pissed himself, and that the shit and piss must have stayed there building up and sticking to his skin, i hope the last supper wasn't as big as people made out"

Salahudin-

All quite factural- considering Christ bridged the divide of God from man and thus established a covenant for those who call; naturally, I'm sure your no doubt aware man can be a stinky-aaaasss Critter!!!!!!!!!

Ronin, are u in fact bush in disguise
Posted by: salahudin

Guess again my ex muslim brother. I just thank God you came to your senses.

"innocents" in the queer and twisted psyche of the musulman means those who "slay and are slain in the cause of Allah..."- disbelievers are 'the worst of creatures',- and 'killing disbelievers is a small matter to us...'

Anyone with such a mindset does not belong in the civilized world.

Unbelievers are the 'enemies of Allah' and must be killed or forcibly converted or live as dhimmies, but only if they agree to pay the jiziyah... and after the musulman made 'great slaughter in the land...'

Please note: Nothing the troll posts is on topic, he deflects and obfuscates and doesn't answer questions, he believes Mohammedan murder and genocide is actually "gods will' and will take him to 72 'houris' and 24 boyz with liquid brown eyes...

He rejects British law, he believes to be entitled to 4 wretched, burkha-covered brood-sows who breed for jihad while British taxpayers foot the bill...

I feel sorry for England. I feel sorry for the innocent and naive Brits (or any unsuspecting infidels) who allowed such vermin to settle amongst themselves.

Internment & Deportations NOW!!!

So why if he died for the sins of mankind are children born sinful, and answer if allah is so evil, than why did christianity share so many of the features which are today used to critisize Islam, and why change what god has revealed, to suite the times, did god or his child say, "yeee when thy laws are attacked submit and change them" did he or they or them say that? and how many bibles are there, the bible was basically edited to suit the cause of christian leaders, hence the 50 or so versions, and i think the cross is really a horizontal sword, disguised as a symbol of sacrifice

eerrrmm christian women were also told to cover up, and they did during the time of christ and in the centuries after, nuns today are an example

cross is a vertical sword, excuse that mistake,

50 or so versions, you must be talking about the koran, many muslim can not read arabic so the read other versions. I like the one at islamiccomic.org it makes mohammend look so cute (for a pedophile)

Do you actually say "eeerrrrmmm" when you're talking?

BTW -- this isn't everything_a_dumb_Muslim_ever_wanted_to_know_about_his_enenemies.com -- this site is called Jihad Watch. So why are you asking all these stupid questions?

I see salad is having problems with his conversion. It is not really a problem Jesus will forgive you.

Well I see Saladbowl is not going to answer my question about our being "innocent." I know the answer as does everyone else. Nevertheless, Jesus taught me "Judge not lest you be judged." I don't give a hoot in hell what you say about my religion or my favorite American (real) football team. Spiritual transgressions, blasphemy, adultry, heresy, and the rest are not to be judged by any human. That is where Mohammedism becomes not a religion for mankind, but a religion made up by a man. What matters Mr. S. is what you do. As long as you keep talking (yadayadayada), that's OK, when you start doing something that threatens our way of life, you, Sir, will find yourself in over your head and you probably can't swim.

Slightly drunk, it seems. Probably a skinhead. Eeerrrrrmmm.

Is that like a treebeard thing? Is he one of those D&D freaks? It would somehow make sense in a creepy kind of way.

Mohammed's adopted son Zayed was married to Zainab, daughter of Jahsh. But one day the prophet "beheld in a loose undress, the beauty of Zainab, and burst forth into an ejaculation of devotion and desire. The servile, or greatful, freeman (Zayed) understood the hint and yielded without hesitation to the love of the benefactor."

I don't remember Jesus ever being tempted by his sons wife, old mo was really sick. Also, why did that skank tempt the old guy? She should have remained covered, slut.

Koran 76:19)
And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.

Mohammed could not make up his mind about Sodomy. He prohibits it on earth, but then he says that Muslims can enjoy homosexuality in Paradise. It is a well established fact that many famous Muslims were practicing homosexuals who looked towards the Koran to justify their actions. For example, Babar, the moghul king was madly in love with a young boy named Baburi. Kuttubuddin Aibak, another Muslim ruler of India used to dress up as a woman and dance in a vulgar manner.

Now I know your problem salad, you want your neighbors kid, you are really sick, dude (arabic for worm)

salad days-

You're a naive young fellow who doesn't know enough about either Islam -or any other religion- to be joining the fray here, yet.

I almost feel sorry for you (aside from your speciously excusing of pedophilia and scatologically insulting a very benevolent and loving guy who died under Roman torture for opposing a crude theocratic pagan tyranny... hanging on the cross for 3 hours, not "3 days"... you see, you need to know little details like that before you shoot your mouth off and look silly..), because you come across like a lost puppy who playfully thought he was grabbing a dust bunny and it turned out to be the fuzzy end of a lion's tail.

Crack open a Koran, and read the Hadiths, to grasp the full import of the bizarrities of Mohammedan faith.

And then delve into the best version of the New Testament (in any Bible in English) the King James, which, for its poetry, is inimitable, although the earlier Tyndall translation is nearly as profound.

Then plumb the "Tao Te Ching" (Book of the Way) for a completely different, non-"Deity" perspective on both.

As the Bard put it:

"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philsophy."

Don't close your mind so soon.

It advertises bad things.

Mujahideen vs Crusaders, they should make a video game about that, hand on heart can you say that your children will play as the crusaders?
i mean look at spain when they CELEBRATE the inquisition, the children all choose to dress like the Moors, i have a black turban and when i wear it with the sides hanging down the sides of my face, and down my back, u see the non-muslims kids wishing they were muslim.

Walaykum

Poor salahudin embarked on a spiritual journey and wound up in a sacrosanct ghetto. Blinded by the elixir of his faith, he does not see the cockroaches or the trash on steps, and blind, he cannot journey any farther. He is home.

Now let's see how long it takes them to come up with a definition of who is "innocent". Their definitions shift like the desert sands.

Salahudin,

Let us remember that once Rome converted, Christian institutions and DOGMA would forever be altered, due to adoption by such a powerful force of militaristic human influence. The sacrifice of Christ does not eliminate original sin, but offers an opportunity to atone. Dispite what people may tell you, the path to the body of Christ is as much a personal journey.

Representative human institutions are man made by nature and thus open to corruption. The path to God does not always lie through the organized church. Most in fact reconcile with Christ through spirtual experiences.

The difference with Islam is that one cannot break from the structural religious hierarchy without fear of repercusions. Muslims are thus forced to embrace any and all designs of their human "guides". Only a brave few have the courage to risk death as apostates and for that they deserve our support in this matter.

Salahudin,

We've had many Muslim posters here. They come and go. Few are genuine moderates, and those either admit to problems in the Koran or else choose to hide from them, deny them, procrastinate dealing with them, and so on. Out of all the moderate Muslim posters, there are only two or three who've given an indication that they're working to improve or modernize Islam. It appears to me that your only purpose here is to annoy, to boast, and insult. I could be wrong of course; I can only judge by what you write.

salahudin,

Jesus' last hours were agony. An agony we cannot comprehend. It was more than the pain of the crucifixion He suffered. Beaten beyond recognition, humiliated and spat upon, betrayed and deserted by the closest of friends and finally to be separated from His Father in heaven.

God did this for you Salahudin, even while you are his enemy. Where are your friends now? We have several trolls-in-residence on this site reading your posts but none will come to your aid because they find you an embarrassment to the Ummah.

Accept that you are a wretched being and ask for God's forgiveness. Just then you may discover who you really are in Christ Jesus.

Western Infidel -- I respect your sentiments, but my personal take is that the introduction of religious proselytization is counterproductive at this site. This site isn't for Islamic Da'wa any more than it is for Christian Evangelism. And as soon as the subject turns into something resembling "Your religion is bad and my religion is good" we've lost the focus. This site does best when it concentrates on the dispassionate discussion of all the things that are wrong with Muslim Jihad, and the Islamic religious underpinnings of their heinous war of terror against us.

I don't find your post at all offensive, especially since I perceive that you come from a far more generous position than my own regarding Islam and Muslims.

But I am an agnostic, and knowing many agnostics and atheists, I worry that some of them will be driven away if they perceive this site to be a primarily evangelical site, rather than a secular site discussing the ugliness of Islam. Please consider this when you post.

I have the same response to those secular zealots from among the atheists and agnostics who come here viciously evangelizing against Christianity -- those persons who suggest that the Christians are 'just as bad' as the Muslims. Those posters too have somewhat missed the point -- we all must focus on Islam, and the crimes committed by Muslims against our secular pluralistic society. If the discussion passes beyond this limited sphere, the potential audience for this site's message shrinks exponentially.

jsla,

I do take your point and was well aware of my position when I posted. I realise that this site is not for Christian evangelism and that the position I had taken could be negatively perceived by those who view this site. In this particular instant I used excerpts from the Bible specifically for this individual. I would not have done so had it been a thread that was in full flow but this poster had been drawing the debate OT and I felt the need to give him a personal message, one that he had been pondering upon.

While I'm corresponding to you jsla, I would like to take this opportunity to inform you that your opinions you post are very much mirrored by my own POV. Look forward to hearing from you soon. With kindest regards Western Infidel.

jsla and western infidel,

Forgive me for not minding my own business, though I will try to respect your positions as well. If you review salahudin's postings in this thread, he transforms from meekly diverting to frothingly condemning, from da'wa (look at the miracles of the qur'an, hear of my personal witness) to death sentence ("at the end of the day i know u will burn in hell..."), ultimately reversing himself on every soft, "moderate" (and feigned) position he posited ("i wont insult isa, but and i wont insult christianity").

Religious and ideological proselytizing are both useful, if not to counter Islam, at least to expose it. Salahudin was certainly exposed above, as the intolerant, illiterate, venomous fraud that he most certainly is, incapable of a convincing condemnation of attacks on innocents (the long lost topic of this thread).

All that said, I would prefer less emotive ("Jesus' last hours were agony for you") proselytizing, and more sound theological counters to the doctrines of the capricious, man-made "Allah".

However, I still enjoy watching you guys pour salt around this slug, but I fear that this is what this site is worst known for. Shame on me.

I know Western Infidel. I hope I didn't sound critical, because I really wasn't trying to be. In addition to making the point I did, I was also impressed with your restraint and generosity - a trait I sometimes find lacking when I post, especially in response to the votaries of darkness.

In Islam why do you have to wait three years from marriage to consumation? Because having sex with six year olds is considered bad form.

To those in the UK, theres a programme on BBC 2 about the Vietnam war, napalm burning childrens skins, Americans being brainwashed into believing their the greatest nation and invincible, Americans blindly following their governments. u would think the Americanist Extremist would have learnt from that carnage.

OHHH Yeah they did, they now moderate what the media can show and use them as a propaganda tool, concentrating solely on the deaths caused by the terrorist and freedom fighters.

Watching the BBC must cause brain rot.

butterfly'

I must come to the defence of the BBC.

Our publically funded BBC makes some of the finest programmes in the world. Such as the likes of David Attenborough's (Sir) natural history series to many a period drama. Who can ever forget the first time they sat and watched the likes of Fawlty Towers, Blackadder or The Office? However I do take exception to the Beeb's newsgathering and broadcasting departments as they blur the distinction between real news reporting and the mouthpiece for our PC govermnent.

I agree with you WI. Nature is one of my all time favorite programs. I was sticking my finger in salahudin’s eye. Arrogant, self righteous types like him disgust me.