And no doubt they will be choosing Western converts to try to do the infiltrating. I wonder if, during that six- to eight-month vetting process, MI5 officials discuss jihad with Muslim applicants. From the BBC, with thanks to all who sent this in:
Al-Qaeda sympathisers have been trying to infiltrate the British security service MI5, the BBC has learned.Whitehall officials confirmed what some had long suspected, says BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner.
But those with al-Qaeda sympathies had been weeded out during a six- to eight- month vetting process, officials added.
Meanwhile anti-terrorism police probing the 7 July London bombings say people who knew the attacks were being planned would face prosecution.
'Richer picture'
Officers at a Scotland Yard briefing said they continued to be very concerned by the intelligence picture, with 70 investigations continuing and some of the information received described as "very sinister".
The head of the Metropolitan Police's anti-terrorist branch, Peter Clarke, said 60 people were awaiting trial in the UK for terrorist-related offences.
But he warned: "This is unprecedented, and the flow of new cases shows no sign of abating - if anything it is accelerating."
MI5 believes, from polls, that around 400,000 people in the UK are "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world", said Frank Gardner.
Within that number 1,200 people have been identified as being activists the security service believe are engaged in acts of terrorism at home and abroad, he said....
Our correspondent says that as investigations continue, MI5 is expanding from its current level of 2,600 officers to an eventual 3,500, to cope with the terrorist threat.
It is also setting up eight new regional offices to build up a "richer picture" of what people are thinking and doing on the ground, he added.
The security service now publicly advertises for staff as part of a major expansion plan to combat terrorism, ending decades of secrecy.
Tens of thousands apply to join MI5 each year, with 400 making it through to final selection.
Applicants are first assessed by an outside agency, then those shortlisted invited to MI5's London headquarters, where their backgrounds and sympathies are intensively investigated for six to eight months....
He added that the profile of the terror suspect was changing, including "many" British people willing to mount attacks on fellow citizens.
MI5 believes, from polls, that around 400,000 people in the UK are "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world", said Frank Gardner.
400,000? That low? Maybe only 400,000 would celebrate a major attack by slaughtering a goat, but 800,000 would celebrate privately with a bit of store bought halal meat and some rice. The rest of the muslims, would not celebrate but would feel satisfied for the moment.
And to combat this threat, M15 is hiring a thousand more investigators for a restive population of 2 million muslims? Do the math, for every M15 pencil pusher, there are maybe 700 terrorist sympathizers in Britain.
That is NOT how you deal with the threat when the numbers are that huge.
As recent events in Canada show, to be a terrorist, all you need to be is a muslim. You don't need to be some ex-army heavy from a Bruce Willis movie with a genius IQ and a flair for the dramatic. All you need to be is an angry muslim with a few bucks to buy some fertilizer. Every muslim in the west is a potential terrorist as a result. Every muslim is a terrorist in situ. If Britain has 2 million muslims, then M15 is in over their heads.
Law enforcement is not designed to deal with numbers like that. Even the army can not cope with those numbers.
I want to see the poll numbers showing how many will fight to the death to stop them. Those are the numbers that count.
It's a religion of anarchy.
The inevitable secrecy surrounding counter-terrorism and legal restrictions on the reporting of impending trials meant the public remained ignorant of the scale of the terrorist threat, he added.
"There is a lot of intelligence to be investigated - some of it is very sinister. It is a very, very concerning intelligence picture."
I wonder how those polls would change if people knew the truth?
So, when are the immigration laws going to be changed to restrict or eliminate muslims? And what happened to all those deportations?
what happened to all those deportations?
Posted by: Borg
The same thing that happened when we demanded that immigration be controlled, we agreed to allow in 40,000 more saudi terrorists (students), we have been sold out.
It would do well for Scotland Yard to explain why the muslim terrorists motives are ""very sinister".
People who are too lazy and or blind to these jihadist like one of my sisters (she is a bleading heart liberal ). might be rudely awaken with the truth from our government and or police.
Borg that is the 64K question. When will the mass deportations start? When will islam be barred?
One can safely say that it won't happen. What the PC mindset has done, is separate terrorism from islam. So even if 99% of all muslims were terrorists, they would still not ban muslims from the country. They would still let in the 1% that are not already terrorists.
I'm willing to wager that Big Ben can be destroyed, Heathrow can be blown up, Wembley stadium can be demolished, and a million Londoners can be killed with poison gas, and Britain will still not ban islam from the country. They will crack down harder, sure. But the mosques will stay open, and the muslims will be allowed to go about their business.
Same as in the US. What is even more interesting, is that if, in the aftermath of such terrorism, UK polls show that 90% of Britains want muslims deported, the government would not move on it. I'm positive. There could be mass demonstrations in the streets, and the government would send in the army to quell the protests of the people. The PC government lives above the people. Separate from the people.
A new blogger keeping an eye on immigration in Norway. Thanks Gates of Vienna.
http://norwegiannews.blogspot.com/
The PC government in both the UK and USA had best hunt work, this will be a big election issue.
"MI5 believes, from polls, that around 400,000 people in the UK are "sympathetic to violent jihad around the world", said Frank Gardner."
-- from the article above
We have every reason to believe that this is an understatement. MI5, the British government, and all Western intelligence agencies, and all Western governments, have hardly begun to figure out what Islam is all about, have hardly begun to assign a hundred or a thousand or ten thousand agents to study Qur'an and Hadith, have hardly begun to realize in time, for the wellbeing and safety of their own citizens, that the passages of Jihad-conquest and subjugation or murder of non-Muslims are so evident everywhere in Qur'an and Hadith, and the malevolent and dangerous figure of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, the central figure of Islam, the Perfect Man, the one who must be emulated in all respects, and whose insistence that "war is deception" and his further insistence that the Infidels must submit to the "best of peoples," the Believers, that it would be a real act of wilful evasion for someone who calls himself a Muslim not to support the instruments of Jihad.
If 400,00 Muslims in Great Britain, at a minimum, support "violent jihad" then one can just imagine how many more support other instruments of Jihad, such as Da'wa and demographic conquest, which are merely different means to the same end, possibly more effective because less attention-getting.
Is the belief-system of Islam compatible with free and skeptical inquiry? No. Is the belief-system of Islam compatible with almost all of the forms of artistic expression that have characterized the rest of humanity, including sculpture and painting of living things? No. Is the belief-sytem of Islam compatible with the emphasis on the individual and not the collective? No. Is the belief-system of Islam compatible with equal rights for women, or for equal treatment of all people? No.
Does the large-scale presence of Muslims in Great Britain, as in other Western and non-Western Infidel lands, crete a situation for the indigenous Infidels that is far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous than would be the case without such a large-scale presence? Yes.
Would the British government, or any government, even if a single cow were find to exhibit symptoms of Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease, hesitate to quarantine a million, or ten million, head of cattle? No.
Risk is about likelihood, about probabilties. If 90% (as some defectors from Islam believe), or 60%, or 50%, or 40%, or 30%, or 10%, 0r 2%, of Muslims, represent a clear and murderous threat to non-Muslims, why should any at all be allowed into the Lands of the Infidels? Why should this risk be taken? On what theory? To win favor from whom? To gain points where?
somethingaboutislam: If the Moslems blew up Heathrow and killed thousands of Brits, I can assure you the next day there would be a press conference about Islamaphobia and Ken Livingstone would give a speech blaming Israel. The British have become a totally spineless nation (not all of them, of course, but most).
And to the point of this article, why would AQ bother to inflitrate MI5? The way the UK government is trying to suck up to Moslems, they will inevitably show Moslems "leaders" any information they.
And we go out of our way to court promote and consult with them over here.
I applied to join mi5, but im to tall and not inconpicious (bah spelling, i stick out like a sore thumb, apparently) enough.
So what happens if there jihadis on the other side of a tall wall?
"And to the point of this article, why would AQ bother to inflitrate MI5? The way the UK government is trying to suck up to Moslems, they will inevitably show Moslems "leaders" any information they.
Posted by: Seymour Paine "
I hardly think they have the IQ to pass the test for an average parking lot attendant. No way they can infiltrate MI. The BBC is off its rocker.
A poll in the Times today shows 13% of UK Muslims think the 7/7 bombers were martyrs. The Times gives the results of a poll of 1000 Muslims which also shows about half of the Muslim population should crack down harder on terrorism and monitor what is going on in mosques closely. apparently 18% would feel nervous if the were on a bus and saw a Muslim looking man with a back back! The results are at:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2254764_1,00.html
Meanwhile the MP Siddique Khan today attacked the governmnet for failing to bring a sense of urgency into applying the recommendations of the various Muslim consultation groups set up to find solutions to the problem of terrorism after 7/7.
If you look closely at these recommendations, most of which are summarised at:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/news/2005/11/sec-051114-rferl03.htm
you find that a lot of them seem to be about giving Muslims a chance to spread pro-Islamic propaganda in the public education system and to combat'Islamophobia' generally. The relevance of this to countering terrorism is. to say the least, dubious.
oops, above should read:
"half of the Muslim population think the government should crack down harder on terrorism."
MI-5 could set up a sting by letting radicals get hired and feed them special information that is outright lies but with echo back to which new person leaked the info , then you merely play dumb and let the idiot be followed and have their phone tapped to find a pattern in numbers or names.
The radicals are so obsessed with killing for Allah that they don't have the brains to notice a sting or believe non-Muslims might be smarter than them.
By using loyal citizens with no history to trace to MI-5 the jihadist will waste all their time spying on other MI-5 person to check for
being followed or watched , and when they tip-off fellow jihadists to a potential raid it can be a bogus case and play dumb again by letting the tip-off go unchecked.
I've worked with enough fools to know that is better not to let them know how really smart you are, because then they won't really reveal how stupid THEY are.
I say bring it on , I'll take on any Muslim brain after seeing how a professor at a canadian University could make such a ignorant comment about jews while being on earth for such a long time. The Quran teaching you to stop thinking like one of those hard core Government Unions
that people breast feed off of and punch the clock while oblivious to the world around them.
we agreed to allow in 40,000 more saudi terrorists (students), we have been sold out.
Posted by: Ronin at July 3, 2006 08:13 PM
.. and here-in lies America's vulnerability. Dubya has abused his position of persident and commander-in-chief, to sell out America, American future, American children and Americans to blood-thirsty Muslims and corrupt Mexicans. If I did not know better, Dubya seems like an Arab & Mexican ambassador to US. As they say, fish starts to rot in the head........
People who are too lazy and or blind to these jihadist like one of my sisters (she is a bleading heart liberal ). might be rudely awaken with the truth from our government and or police.
Posted by: Lulu at July 3, 2006 08:17 PM
.. but but, isn't Matropolitian police planning to hire more Muslims? Is that to lure Muslims away from MI5? LOL.. Can someone explain all this?
Check 'em out:
http://www.mi5.gov.uk
This is the same BBC who is blatantly anti American,anti Israel, anti Serbian-indeed any country who refuses to be Dhimmis...Don't read BBC much as my blood pressure rises when reading
their slavish comments about Muslims whom we're all supposed to love even when they want to kill us.
However do remember reading an article put out by
some guy called "THE STUFF OF NIGHTMARES" lauded by BBC of course; where fears of Muslims and terrorist acts were ridiculed and not so thinly veiled that governments 'might be implicated in working on those fears.' Not so long afterwards 7/7 happened in U.K and author of "The Stuff of Nightmares" has been keeping a low profile since.Perhaps a Jwatcher might know where he is?
Only encouraging thing to add is there is half a million Poles in Britain according to BBC-Poles are brave warriors and certainly not Dhimmis. Their influx might stiffen the spine of the almost supine establishment whose position is weaker even than Chamberlain's "PEACE IN OUR TIME."
The documentary series of 4 programmes was called 'The Power of nightares' it was interesting, informative and completely wrong in its central thesis (that any Muslim organisation interested in attacking western countries was destroyed when the Americans invaded Afghanistan).
There's a wikipedia article about it at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_nightmares
you find that a lot of them seem to be about giving Muslims a chance to spread pro-Islamic propaganda in the public education system and to combat'Islamophobia' generally. The relevance of this to countering terrorism is. to say the least, dubious.
Ibrahim Mogda, like Hamid Ali, has said publicly that he believes Moslems in Britain have benefitted from bombing us. That 7/7 was basically a good thing from their perspective. Unlike Hamid Ali, Mogda is a government adviser with direct access to cabinet. Is anyone at MI5 even aware of non-violent Jihad?
'Course they are. Non-violent Jihad is, like, meditation, and philosophy and stuff, innit?
The following is from an Israeli newspaper web site:
"Play it safe, Englishman. By the way, I hear that the Church of England has ruled that Arabic is now the official language of London`s public schools."
It seems that there are emglishmen that have anti-semitic leanings.
Brits, protect yourself for the mos intend on burying England, Israel and America. France and Europe are a lost cause if Europe does not wake up and fight back.
British Muslim MP asks Where are my bribes? Where are my treats? Where are my goodies?
Quick, somebody give him what he wants -- I feel another bombing spree coming on.
Neville Chamberlain makes a comeback!
The Man of Cardboard Returns!
Somebody cue the John Williams theme music...
From the MI5 recruitment page:
"We welcome all applications, but would be particularly interested to hear from women, individuals from ethnic minority groups and disabled people."
https://www.mi5careers.gov.uk/requirements.aspx
In the Unhinged Kingdom, Tony Blair also relies on Tariq Ramadan for muslim affairs. There really seems no end to this stupidity.
Followed the link above. I think I fit the bill since I can comprehend urdu, Punjabi, and some arabic. Wonder if MI will have me. Or, maybe, I am better off where I am, agree with you, it is beginning to look like Unhinged Kingdom.
Frightening statistics:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2254764,00.html
If this was a report about an enclave of South African whites seeking to establish a small realm in which they could live under apratheid, there would be appopriate outrage. Yet this monstrous ideology is tolerated - protected - in the name of some screwy notion of 'diversity.'
Collapse will be upon us.
I am searching the net after I read an article that claimed that 2 million Christians were massacred by muslims in Africa in the last 10 years. I have stumbled across several such articles, though the toll varies from 600000 to 2000000. The MSM never carries any of it. And the gitmo prisoners have to have halal meat. sic.
What other elements of our public infrastructures might be vulnerable targets for subversion by taqiyya? Are people with attitudes and beliefs inimical to national security only applying to MI5, with 100% success in filtering them out? What if 1% gets through? What if 10% of moslem applicants are really "good" moslems - good at dissimulation, good at sedition...
How many are now in our police forces, or hospitals, local water authorities, food production facilities... It's not just MI5 that deserves this level of security vetting. It's not just those Moslems blatantly applying for undercover missions...
I have gotten about half-way through Tom Tancredo’s new book “Mortal Danger”- it would warm the heart of all JW readers. I expect the rest to be even better. It should be must reading for every American adult, to get a handle on the brainwashing that the last three generations have gotten and which needs to be overcome.
Tancredo is a representative from a district in Colorado, but he has been on the national front line fighting for immigration control. He comes to the job with 12 years background as a teacher in the public school system.
America’s problems with the Islamic cult, the multiculturist cult, and unchecked immigration differ only in degree from Europe’s. The book is of course in English and the examples are from the American scene but his ideas would be worth listening to by Europeans as well; they will never get a book like this from any Euro-politicians.
Jimmy Bones-
Even better, he was a HISTORY teacher.
Time to get rid of all the lawyers in our government and replace them with ex military people and those with a knowledge of American and world history.
treehuger - Great point, and it shows in nearly every paragraph.