A small bit of anti-dhimmitude and common sense, as over against Sadiq Khan's ridiculous displacement of responsibility, from the Prime Dhimmi of Great Britain. From the TimesOnline, with thanks to Mackie:
Tony Blair said today that moderate British Muslims were not doing enough to tackle the problem of extremism in their communities, which could not, he said, be defeated by the Government alone.Speaking ahead of Friday's anniversary of the 7/7 London suicide bombings, the Prime Minister said that Muslim leaders should make clear to the extremists that not only were their methods wrong, but their ideology, interpretation of Islam and their "completely false sense of grievance against the West".
Of course, the dirty little secret that no one wants to admit or recognize is that these moderate Muslims have never formulated a convincing or coherent refutation of the jihadist interpretation of Islam.
"I think the roots of this extremism lie in the attitudes and ideas as much as organisation," Mr Blair told the Commons Liaison Committee. "I don’t think there is an answer to this terrorism that is simply about police work or security measures."...His comments on the rise of Islamic extremism coincided with the publication of a Times poll showing that 13 per cent of British Muslims think that the the four London suicide bombers, who killed 52 people on three London Tube trains and a bus, should be regarded as "martyrs"....
Mr Blair said: "In the end, Government itself cannot go and root out the extremism in these communities. I am not the person to go into the Muslim community and explain to them that this extreme view is not the true face of Islam."
The Prime Minister went on: "I profoundly disagree that the problem here is that the Government hasn’t acted. We are not having a debate of a fundamental enough nature within the community, which is where the moderate majority go and stand up against the ideas of those people, not just their methods.
"You cannot defeat this extremism through what a Government does. You can only defeat it within a community. "People should stand up and not merely say, ‘You are wrong (but) you are wrong in your view about the West, you are wrong in your sense of grievance, the whole ideology is profoundly wrong’."
He's going to get into such trouble even for saying this much. Bad dhimmi! No biscuit!
WSW
In effect, Tony Blair has changed his mind. Good to know.
Every once in a while Tony Blair seems to dust off his neurons and give them a bit of a work out. The very fact that he is actually saying these things out loud is a good thing. I still say that the Singapore solution will work in most Western countries. We would just have to overturn centuries of legal tradition and jurisprudence to implement it:
The Administration of Muslim Law Act
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_retrieve.pl?&actno=Reved-3&date=latest&method=part
Some key passages:
PART VIII
CONVERSIONS
Register of converts
126. The Majlis shall maintain a register of the names of all persons converted to the Muslim religion within Singapore, together with such particulars in respect of their conversion as may be prescribed by rule.
Control of conversion
127. No person shall be converted to the Muslim religion otherwise than in accordance with the Muslim law and the provisions of this Act or any rules made thereunder.
Report of conversion
128. Any Muslim who converts any person to the Muslim religion shall forthwith report such conversion to the Majlis with all necessary particulars.
Permission to leave Singapore
136. —(1) Any Muslim, who is not a citizen of Singapore or of Malaysia and who has married in Singapore, shall not leave Singapore without the permission of the President.
Neglect or failure to report conversion
138. Whoever, being under a duty to report to the Majlis a conversion to the Muslim religion under the provisions of this Act, wilfully neglects or fails to do so shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.
False doctrine
139. —(1) Whoever shall teach or publicly expound any doctrine or perform any ceremony or act relating to the Muslim religion in any manner contrary to the Muslim law shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $2,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both.
[20/99]
(2) In any prosecution for an offence under this section, where evidence is given by the President that any doctrine, ceremony or act is contrary to the Muslim law, the court shall presume that such doctrine, ceremony or act is contrary to the Muslim law.
Abetment
140. Any person who attempts to commit, or abets the commission of, any offence under this Act shall be punishable with the same punishment as if he had committed the offence.
Too little and maybe too late.
How many seconds will it take before the first multi-cul-lover accuses mr. Blair of racism?
That he has said it is a good thing. That it will happen, wishful thinking.
And if it is?
For, as we know, Islam is "extreme". Or rather, to be more precise, its doctrines - permanent jihad, the enforcement of the dhimma on non-Muslims where Muslims seize control, the subjugation of women, the killing of apostates and homosexuals, the barbaric punishments prescribed by the sharia, and all the rest of it - are not acceptable to non-Muslims.
It's a fine pickle, Mr Blair, isn't it?
Exchange "Stand Up To" for "Stand Shoulder To Shoulder With" and the mythical "moderate" Muslims might buy it.
Blair is whistling past a graveyard.
I think the tune is "The End".
("...lost in a Roman wilderness of pain, and all the children are insane...")
Blair sez:
"... I am not the person to go into the Muslim community and explain to them that this extreme view is not the true face of Islam."
Blair previously did just that...
But he had better not do it again, for that would be a terrible act of comedy and even a clown like him cannot allow himself to be totally disgraced.
Mentat above praises the "Singapore solution:"
One has to keep in mind that Singapore is a benevolent dictatorship, one outstanding example that actually works for a majority of people there. But to compare that with western democracies and to wish for the implementation of Singapore-style laws with the appropriate penalties (including flogging) would be madly optimistic.
The problem in the west is also quite different: Mohammedans are concentrated in large ghettoes in many western suburbs and cities, western countries committed the folly of allowing the Muslims to vote, (which can only end in disaster) since muslims will vote for Islam and for nothing but more Islam every time, while exploiting the welfare state and undermining every law of the country they have infiltrated.
I see no alternative to internment and deportations. I shall happily carry the label of a "radical".... but I'll prove to you every time that this solution is a far more humane and justified than what the soldiers of Allah have in store for us, should they prevail in out-breeding us or coming to power by 'peaceful' da'awa...
More smoke.
Blair is even more dangerous than the so-called "moderate" Muslims.
Blair knows "this extreme view is not the true face of Islam." is an outright lie.
Their is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Blair knows the true nature of Islam as so eloquently stated by Winston Churchill for example.
He's playing politics to silence the growing outrage at the Islamification and terrorization of Britain.
He is trying to portray himself as an opponent, rather than one of the main facilitators of this process.
Is this true? If someone disrobes Mr. Blair they might find a couple of orbs larger than two raisins under his twinkie. Well one can only hope the PM found himself some balls and is willing to put them to use.
Unfortunately I doubt that, we'll just have to stick to movies and documentaries to see what the once thriving Britain looked like. Here's a comment from a travel show featuring Britainstan, "Now imagine this country full of people who are not wearing a mask, and were going to churches where those minarets are located now. Over here is where the Kaffir beheadings took place, what a wonderful scene." That will be a top seller in about 50 years from now.
Niv
Demographics will eventually lead to Islamic separatist movements in Europe and America. Primary immigration is now a red herring. It is muslim growth from within, that is the greatest danger. Bradfordistan etc will be the talk of the News media in the coming decades. There is no doubt of this eventuality. It is predictable. One just has to look at the muslim separatist movements around the world. Once a new muslim state is created, non-muslims will be forced out or worse. Muslims in the remainder of the non-muslim state will then continue to increase, till a new separatist demand is made, and so on.
One must bear in mind that in the event of a really bloody civil war in Europe or America, the victors will exact a heavy price. In effect, if Europeans win, muslims will be expelled anyway. In retaliation, Christians in muslim countries will be slaughtered and the survivors expelled.
Such an outcome will be bloody beyond imagination. I agree with sheik yer'mami. I have written for a long while that the most humane option, for everyone's good, including muslims, is that we live apart at this moment in time or till the time the islamic world is ready to be part of the modern world, and not just in conflict with it.
FI FIE FO FUM-I SMELL THE SPIN OF THIS ENGLISHMAN {Scottish really but not William Wallace]...
Blair will do ANYTHING to hang on to his job & all its perks.
New Labour received a trouncing in council elections also in Welsh seat which was supposed to be 'safe.' Blair may be a megalomanic but he ain't stupid-he knows 'the common folk' are voting BNP out of desperation, that none of them want Turkey in the E.U.
Despite his rhetoric, this man is a disgrace to his country.
Salman Rusdie noted wryly that Sir Iqbal Scranie-who'd been knighted by Blair to'give moderate Islam a high-profile face-had responded to the 1989 fatwa against Rusdie by saying that"death is perhaps too easy" for the author.When another supposed moderate,Mohammed Naseem of Birmingham's central mosque, was invited to a police press conference "to help calm fears of racial or religious tension" after arrest of a terror suspect, he called Blair a liar and questioned Muslim involvement in 7/7. An 'Observer' investigation in 2005 revealed that the Muslim Council of Britain,"officially the moderate face of Islam" in Britain, in fact had its origins in the extreme orthodox politics
[Islamic] of Pakistan.
As for the shameful pay outs & welfare benefits given to these terrorists and their large families-Abu Hamza, his missus & 8 little hamsters are still receiving theirs to the tune of 2,000 pounds a week...It was discovered in a raid on Hamza's council house that this lying, murderous cleric had nearly half a million in cash and in bank accounts stacked away...that they could find! And Blair is directly responsible for having admitted these bastards into Britain and kept them in a style to which they've become accustomed. His 'grateful Muslims'
have threatened to bomb Blair which is why he goes everywhere in two convoys of black limos-at taxpayers expense-so bombers won't know which car he is in. Personally think it would be a good
idea if he got blown to pieces instead of honest,decent Brits just trying to make a living in what was once their own country. After all Mrs
Blair sympathizes with Palestinian Suicide Bombers and has said so publicly-before making a retraction of this outrageous remark.
Too little, too fucking late you piece of shit. I don't care how many people are offended by my language. Most of you don't have to live with this bullshit. I do. I can't stand people hiding behind political corectness. It's about time people started discussing the true state of the real muslim threat.
. I have written for a long while that the most humane option, for everyone's good, including muslims, is that we live apart at this moment in time or till the time the islamic world is ready to be part of the modern world, and not just in conflict with it.
Posted by: DP111 at July 4, 2006 07:45 PM
1350 years are not enough to prove to you that they won't conflict with the infidels ?
DP111,
How will these Bradfordistans survive if we seal these off and stop all welfare payments ?
Some idea of what goes on in Bradistan can be found in the following contribution from one concerned Muslim girl (apparently Muslims from down south, like their western counterparts, like to see themselves as more sophisticated) in a Muslim chatroom:
"sorry but i was in leeds/bradistan for 3 years and it was a shock feast. the "siege mentality" up north is a situation far more extreme and serious then anywhere eles. children have the greatest problem with education, that cuz they spend most of the school year in pakistan and when they finish school age the girls are sent of back to pakistan to get married to the illiterate cousin or family member who has hit the jackpot and won a human visa, a sexual partner, a domestic servant, and thus the cycle of cultural oppression of muslim women continues (doese bradford and leeds need more taxi drivers or takeaway kebab shops workers and house bound sisters ) future generations of bradistan are gonna be [edited - please use language appropriate for a muslim forum - i can't say what i really mean but you can guess] you have the worst T.P. mentality i have ever seen and when you mix that with gangsta and asian CHAV its a deadly cocktail that the northern young follow more then any other British Pakistani youth. As for the "community elders" there a big help (NOT) with stoping all the gangs, drug dealing and prostitution run by Pakistani pimps, dealers and thugs. i didnt hear any jumma sermon condemning and telling the people to inform the police of all this kind of illicit activity. No they kept stum and buryed their heads in the sand. the culture of conning and ripping off people to the MAX is celebrated. Its an embarrassment when Anne Cryer stands up for muslim women and children before anyone from the community.
Damascus [followed by a quote from Martin Luther King]"
(it's at:
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?p=122314
It's sad to see that she thinks, like Tony Blair, that a stand by the religious elders would help sort things out.
Tony must come to realize that the "muslim majority" will never stand up to any muslim who quotes from the koran to justify their actions.
This only seems like an insoluble problem if one fails to make the link between the actions of the so-called "small minority of extremists" who are willing to murder and bomb to further Islam, and the willingness to exploit such actions by the larger community of so-called Muslim "moderates" to also further Islam. Even some who don't publicly approve of bombing are willing to exploit such opportunities to conduct Da'wa to further Islam -- even it it's only to peddle a soft soap version of Islam which doesn't openly call for violence to further Islam.
It is all the same Jihad!
It's critical for Westerners to understand that ALL Muslims are obligated to help spread Islam. That ALL Muslims seem perfectly willing and ready to exploit any actions by their less "moderate" brethren to further the goals of spreading Islam.
Their very existence in so-called "infidel" lands and their continued adherence to Islam is proof positive that they are spreading Islam as the Koran and their God requires. Wherever previously Muslims had never existed and now exist, Islam has been spread. Though some may have come to escape persecution or oppression under their former heinous Muslim societies -- their unwillingness to jettison Islam once arriving is a grave mistake for them to make in the West, and for us to tolerate in Muslims who arrive here. They have brought the poisonous seeds of the system which they wished to escape, and planted them in our soil. We now will be doomed to suffer from the heinousness of their system -- we now will are imperilled by their toxins.
The most insidious aspect of this is, of course, that Islam is perfectly designed to exploit any sign of resistance or rejection on our part as a crime against Islam, or as a rallying point for the "believers" to strengthen their commitment to Islam, and to become more determined to defame, subvert, and destroy us, whoever dares to stand up as Islam's resistors or rejectors or defamers.
We have invited the perfect enemy into our midst. An enemy who becomes stronger the more we push against him. An enemy who will exploit every strong action we take to suppress his supremacist subversive tendencies. An enemy who will turn such actions into pretexts to attack us further. An enemy who is predisposed to view any quiescence and tolerance towards him on our part not as incentives to moderate his own views toward us, but an enemy who has been taught to view such passiveness as a sign of OUR weakness, of OUR decadence, of OUR lack of faith in ourselves. An enemy who interprets such "weakness" as a trigger to deliver even worse punishments and abuses than those he's already meted out. Through the Muslim lens this perceived "weakness" on our part simply becomes the Muslim's cue to demand more concessions and privileges from us, to complain more bitterly about us, to subvert our society, beliefs, and culture even further, to hate us all the more fervently for our supposed display of weakness, and to be encouraged to attack us all the more furiously and violently in order to drive home his perceived successes.
Muslims must either be expelled from our midst and reduced to sufficiently low densities in our domain so as not to pose a grave threat -- or they must be mercilessly crushed into a submission similar to the species of subjugation they plan to wreak upon us. This last path is fraught for so many obvious reasons, not least because in subjugating them in this manner we partially will have degraded ourselves to their primitive level - but also we will have provided them with ample and eternal pretexts to continue their onslaught against us. In the end, as long as they remain, there's no guarantee that even with the slightest footholds in our domain, they would not eventually rise again to a sufficient level to pose new existential threats just as bad as those threats they clearly pose now.
Expulsion really is the only option. It's that, or an interminable civil war which has no end. If Muslims remain, this endless civil war scenarios is the optimistic scenario -- the pessimist knows that eventually their heinous rigid primitive belief system is capable of destroying the traceries and edifices we have built for so long in the West -- Islam CAN destroy us -- Islamic Terrorism WORKS -- Islam has done this many times - it's easier to destroy things, after all, than to build them.
Muslims are the experts in the demolition of societies. Their beliefs are pure poison to our own, and Islam is perfectly designed to dismantle, digest, and excrete our systems, to reduce them into the waste products by the primitive eating machine of Islam. We see it everywhere Islam dominates in the world. We see their backward and toxic wastelands. We see their cesspools of Human Degradation, violence, barbarity, not to mention despair, disease, and horrific death. It is what they have in store for us too, if we allow it.