Such concerns resonate particularly in the context of Majlis speaker Gholam Ali Haddad-Adel's statement, quoted by the Islamic Republic News Agency, that "Israel is the symbol of US hostility towards the world of Islam." From Reuters:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The FBI is trying to ferret out possible Hizbollah agents in the United States amid concerns that rising U.S.-Iranian tensions could trigger attacks on American soil, FBI officials said.
[...]
American law enforcement officials are concerned the Lebanon-based Hizbollah, which has so far focused on fund-raising and other support activities inside the United States, could turn to violence in solidarity with Iran.
"If the situation escalates, will Hizbollah take the gloves off, so to speak, and attack here in the United States, which they've been reluctant to do until now?" said William Kowalski, assistant special agent in charge of the FBI in Detroit.
Detroit is home to one of the largest Muslim communities in the United States.
"Because of the heightened difficulties surrounding U.S.-Iranian relations, the FBI has increased its focus on Hizbollah," said FBI spokesman Paul Bresson in Washington.
"Those investigations relate particularly to the potential presence of Hizbollah members on U.S. soil."
There is no specific or credible intelligence pointing to an imminent U.S. attack by Hizbollah, which the United States considers a terrorist group, Bresson added.
But Iran's Hizbollah -- which claims links to the Lebanese group -- said on Tuesday it stood ready to attack U.S. and Israeli interests worldwide.
FBI Director Robert Mueller told reporters in Toronto that agents were keeping a close eye on Hizbollah, especially "when the international situation heats up."
Not the Bronx Bombers, it's the Brooklyn Bombers. Just like in Arabel.
We can be sure that the usual Muslim civil rights groups (CAIR, et al.) will be waiting on the courthouse steps this morning to file for injunctions to stop this racial profiling. Also remember that both local police forces and the FBI are massively infiltrated by Muslims, who will tip off their brothers to any planned actions against them. (Remember that FBI agent who refused to wear a wire because as a Muslim he could not spy on other Muslims?)
Is there any doubt that if anything happens, the police will be guarding the mosques and protecting the Muslims? The infidels, who are of course responsible for all the troubles, will have to fend for themselves.
Things will get better soon, however, once another 10 or 20 million Muslims are admitted to the country. The Federal Government is working hard on that.
Don't worry, be happy!
Islam is a religion of peace!
Viva El Presidente Jorge bin Jorge al-Bush!
Allahu akbar!
The other day a public demonstration in support of Hezbollah, was held in San Francisco. Among those demonstrating were many Arabs. Why are demonstrations in support of groups formally declared by our government to be terrorist organizations permitted at all? Would a public demonstration in favor of Nazi Germany have been tolerated during World War II? Why was not everyone arrested, and those who are not citizens deported, according to new, speeded-up procedures? What is preventing this? Is the problem judicial in nature (the Brandenburg Test, which such an arrest, by triggering the necessary case that will percolate upwards to the Supreme Court, and give the Court the chance to modify that test, the problem? Is the problem legislative in nature, and must new laws be passed to make support for terrorist organizations (why just money? why not such public displays of support, designed to legitimate the illegitimate?)? Is the problem with the executive, and with some, including those at the Department of Homeland Security, who themselves parrot, and may even believe, the nonsense about "extremists" and fail to see that support for Jihad, of all kinds, and Jihad defined properly, as employng many different instruments of war, needs to be made the object of punishment and certainly, at a minimum, prompt deportation of non-citizens, and of those whose naturalizaion oath (that too may need some rewording) was, and can be shown to have been, perjured?
There is Hard Jihad and Soft Jihad. One does not have to throw bombs to be a participant in Jihad. Until this "war on terror" is intelligently redefined, and until those in the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI and the CIA who fail to understand this are replaced by others with a surer grasp of the ideology, and instruments, of Jihad, one has a right to be alarmed.
Mr. Fitzgerald:
Well, you can be alarmed if you wish, but you really have nothing to say about it. The decisions have been made by our elites (both here and in Europe) and Muslim immigration will continue. In fact, the rate of such immigration will increase.
Borders are just lines on a map, and the very concept of nation states is obsolete. The situation is irreversible, as all governmental organs, including most especially law enforcement and border control, have been infiltrated.
Take care, Mr. Fitzgerald, lest you be called to account for your evident racism, Islamophobia, and hate speach. The battle, such as it was, is over. You lost.
Don't worry, be happy!
Islam is a religion of peace!
Viva El Presidente Jorge bin Jorge al-Bush!
Allahu akbar!
IMO we have plenty of smiling friendly cab drivers and others islamists who, at their mosques, are being brainwashed into hatred and murder.
"FBI Director Robert Mueller told reporters in Toronto that agents were keeping a close eye on Hizbollah, especially 'when the international situation heats up.'"
-- from the article above
What are we to make of this? Does this mean that the FBI thinks that members, or supporters, of Hezbollah should be watched intermittently, that they can be fine fellows sometimes but at other times, "when the international situation heats up," can get a little heated themselves?
And what does it mean if the Director of the FBI can talk about the FBI "keeping a close eye on Hizbollah" if not that there are supporters or members of Hizbollah that have already been identified, for they are the very ones on whom that that "close eye" is being kept. Does that make sense?
Why are they not rounded up and promptly expelled, if non-citizens, and if citizens, charged with aiding, in any number of ways, the enemy -- in this case, a terrorist organization? Is there something that needs to be added or modified in our laws, to deal with this? Should tens of billions of dollars, or hundreds of billions if we include all the various security measures, be spent monitoring members of, or supporters of, violent Jihad -- or for that matter non-violent Jihad, that is simply a different means chosen for the same end?
Why? Why should the FBI be forced to assign agents to "keep a close eye" on people who should simply be sent back to wherever they will find others just like themselves, consumed with fury at Infidels, at Infidel states, at the putative "humiliation" of not seeing Islam, and Muslims, always get their way, always be able to dominate, always to rule.
Rave on, Mr. Fitzgerald, rave on. Why do you persist with your silly questions? Have you never worked for a large corporation or served in the military? Don't you get it? The decisions have already been made at levels far above your pay grade. Yours not to reason why, yours just to shut up and get with the program or leave without severance or pension.
If you continue with these Islamophobic rants, you may well be ordered to report to your nearest mosque for a short, sharp, re-education session. Such sessions are not enjoyable for the student.
Now stop the anoying rants and be a good dhimmi.
Don't worry, be happy!
Islam is a religion of peace!
Viva El Presidente Jorge bin Jorge al-Bush!
Allahu akbar!
Islamists underestimate the West. Bring on your pathetic jihad. You'll lose. When you try to overrun our country, you will find shotguns up your bums.
The West is seeing you for what you are and we are losing patience with your barbaric backwards demented retarded behavior. You best return to your sandy wasteland.
Allah is a moon-god demonic phoney god (with a small g) ....that's taking all the gulible muslims to hell.
There is ONE God. He HAS a son. JEHOVAH IS GREATEST!
Well, finally we hear from the pope...the usual anti-Israel rhetoric. Pretending to be 'balanced' but reserving his greatest criticixm for Israel. What's new?
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican on Friday strongly deplored Israel's strikes on Lebanon, saying they were "an attack" on a sovereign and free nation.
http://in.today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-07-14T170700Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-259565-1.xml
Oh wouldn't they just LOVE to see the Jews gone from Israel so that the pope could set up his throne in Jerusalem.
Well, finally we hear from the pope...the usual anti-Israel rhetoric. Pretending to be 'balanced' but reserving his greatest criticixm for Israel. What's new?
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican on Friday strongly deplored Israel's strikes on Lebanon, saying they were "an attack" on a sovereign and free nation.
http://in.today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-07-14T170700Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-259565-1.xml
Oh wouldn't they just LOVE to see the Jews gone from Israel so that the pope could sit up his throne in Jerusalem.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19844428-26697,00.html,00.html
By Nayla Razzouk in Beirut. Lets hope this scumbag finds himself in the wrong place at the wrong time.boom.
the goobs
This is Jihad Watch, not a Jack Chick comic booklet. If you think the Holy Father is the enemy, fine enough but this is not the forum for Christian infighting.
I wonder if the FBI has the one week limit to round 'em up like Israel has been given:
USA TO ISRAEL: YOU HAVE ONE MORE WEEK TO BLAST HEZBOLLAH
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1823817,00.html
Just remember whore-hey, "degrade, contain, manage, negotiate, appease"; defeating the enemy is NOT an option!
The enemy may not accord you the same courtesty however!
"Git to work Condi -- show me your sour face!"
Why? Why should the FBI be forced to assign agents to "keep a close eye" on people who should simply be sent back to wherever they will find others just like themselves,
Hugh, I understand how you feel. Unfortunately, some of these Hizballah fellow travelers have likely been in this country for many decades - or were born here.
And some of them have great influence. I know of one organization in particular in the medical field whose practices I have long wondered at. They do great good works. But they also do an awful lot of very direct discrimination in favor of ME muslims. A couple of my family members experienced this at first hand a few years back and their experiences would curl your hair.
I am very limited in what I can say in this public forum - don't want a lawsuit for sure. I would warn you, however, to do more than a little investigation before you hand over any $$$ to "charity" - no matter how worthwhile that charity may seem to be.
Pismopal...I agree that Christians should not be working against each other. I also believe that we need to stand together with Israel.
I am always disappointed with religious leadership that involves itself in politics. Jesus never suggested that religious leaders use pulpits or power to promote political agendas. I dislike this no matter what the organization is.
I also feel that it is irresponsible for religious leaders of Christian organizations to promote anti-Semitism, even in the mildest of ways.
I hope that citizens in the West can stick together with Israel and not be swayed by religious leadership.
Why, indeed. Many reasons why the FBI is 'keeping an eye' for now on the Shia supporters. The overwhelming majority are Shia from a specific Lebanese town--all are clustered in and around Dearborn, Michigan. On the positive, some of 'the brothers' are US citizens who haven't gone accross a red line 'yet' clearly, maybe have been photographed drinking tea together, some, no doubt, are being followed closely--but the investigation or investigators are witing to see who are connected--ie who are the big fish.
On the negative, pc attitudes at the FBI Detroit Office--foisted upon them by higherups with sensitivity training and outreach programs--of course still garnering complaints by the Dearborn faithfull. One issue is also sheer numbers; how many Muslim live in the Dearborn area? Hundreds of thousands. It is not the same as looking for rotten apples amongts a few thousand, or even tens of thousands. Do we have enough translators, agents who can penetrate into the subculture of the Shia Muslim community in Dearborn--all apparently hailing from a specific Lebanese region--probably with cultural/linguistic idiosyncrasy.
Or is this another picture of lack of resources, FBI PC uber alles(see Debbie Schlussel for many examples of FBI appeasment of Hizbullah), lack of linguistic expertise and inside information???
The FBI is doing the best it can. But tracing and tracking the identifying terrorists in the US requires more than reading Jihad Watch and a few books(like me), it requires an army of native speakers(can we trust them?), agents who speak and understand the lingo, culture, nuances of local dialects, family connections. Can this be done? At what cost? Who will watch those busy native-speaking Shia Translators? Am I paranoid? Maybe, but wouldn't it not simply be easy to "keep watch of them over there, instead of watching them here." How bout changing the immigration laws? Makes imminent sense to me. Apparently 6000 of the oft quoted 25,000 Lebanese-American nationals in Lebanon are Shia from Dearborn who were 'visiting' their particiular hometown in Lebanon . . . an area frequented by Nasrallah. Nice. With citizens like these, who needs enemies?
Why, indeed. Many reasons why the FBI is 'keeping an eye' for now on the Shia supporters. The overwhelming majority are Shia from a specific Lebanese town--all are clustered in and around Dearborn, Michigan. On the positive, some of 'the brothers' are US citizens who haven't gone accross a red line 'yet' clearly, maybe have been photographed drinking tea together, some, no doubt, are being followed closely--but the investigation or investigators are witing to see who are connected--ie who are the big fish.
On the negative, pc attitudes at the FBI Detroit Office--foisted upon them by higherups with sensitivity training and outreach programs--of course still garnering complaints by the Dearborn faithfull. One issue is also sheer numbers; how many Muslim live in the Dearborn area? Hundreds of thousands. It is not the same as looking for rotten apples amongts a few thousand, or even tens of thousands. Do we have enough translators, agents who can penetrate into the subculture of the Shia Muslim community in Dearborn--all apparently hailing from a specific Lebanese region--probably with cultural/linguistic idiosyncrasy.
Or is this another picture of lack of resources, FBI PC uber alles(see Debbie Schlussel for many examples of FBI appeasment of Hizbullah), lack of linguistic expertise and inside information???
The FBI is doing the best it can. But tracing and tracking the identifying terrorists in the US requires more than reading Jihad Watch and a few books(like me), it requires an army of native speakers(can we trust them?), agents who speak and understand the lingo, culture, nuances of local dialects, family connections. Can this be done? At what cost? Who will watch those busy native-speaking Shia Translators? Am I paranoid? Maybe, but wouldn't it not simply be easy to "keep watch of them over there, instead of watching them here." How bout changing the immigration laws? Makes imminent sense to me. Apparently 6000 of the oft quoted 25,000 Lebanese-American nationals in Lebanon are Shia from Dearborn who were 'visiting' their particiular hometown in Lebanon . . . an area frequented by Nasrallah. Nice. With citizens like these, who needs enemies?
If they're known to be here...why haven't they already been arrested? Why let them continue to be free to do whatever?
Why are our leaders betraying us?
The muslims were scared after 9/11, and if they do it again, I think they need to be VERY afraid.
Here is some additional background on Hizbollah in the U.S.
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/site/modules/news/article.php?storyid=419
-XRDC
Freewoman, I agree. Another incident and the choice will be made simple for the soccer moms and text-messenging coffee house leftists. The true believers will oblige. The choice will be simple.
I've been engaging in a counter-jihad spam campaign with most members of my electronic address book. I have some encouraging results, believe it or not... people will look at your arguments and will ask for more 'proof' to back up statements. One of my California friends trotted out the old arguments, but I replied every time he replied and sent more links, quotes and supporting information. I invited him to use the MSA compendium of texts to check my citations. I never got angry or nasty about it. Then he asks 'okay, but what do we do about it?' Well, I sent him my seven-page Honey~Do list. I think I made a dent in the armor...
Another guy came back with 'all religions are irrational'. I countered the equivalence argument with 'Islam condones killing to get its point across'. I responded to each of the three other points he had with statements, quotes and other resources to back me up. Then I sent the Letter to the Editor of the East Lansing paper ( entitiled: Islam or Death) along with the original link. I hope it does good. I think it does.
Did I take out another brick in the wall? Don't know.. but I am encouraged. People in the West will listen to you if you don't get angry, don't do labels and name calling and present evidence. Send more evidence. Then send more evidence. You might not convince them, but you might just plant the seed.
Truth is powerful even when scaled to the size of a water droplet. A constant drip of water created the Grand Canyon.
Never give up.
"If the situation escalates, will Hizbollah take the gloves off, so to speak, and attack here in the United States, which they've been reluctant to do until now?" said William Kowalski, assistant special agent in charge of the FBI in Detroit.
Detroit is home to one of the largest Muslim communities in the United States.
+++
The mos will be attacking Americans and America. It is coming.
What will you do when the mos attack in America???
Are you prepared???
Are you armed???
Are you ready???
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense...
Two things:
1.) hizbulla-watching is great, but what's the FBI doing to keep tabs on iran's internationally deployed "sleeper teams" awaiting their orders to undertake military ops in the country they've infiltrated?, and re. the papal comments above
2.) the papacy is certainly involved in the current islamization of europe and (to a lesser degree) the unabashed defiance of anti-illegal immigration practices in the US. Orianna has a few choice (colorful???) words touching on the european situation....
Go Israel!
(Good points Hugh, but other than individual one-on-one idealogical debates, etc. what do/can we do other that contacting our gov reps and voting?)
APlague, I've been doing that for quite a while. I send out what I think are the most outrageous or scariest articles on muslims.
Texican, I am armed and ready. But it shouldn't be left up to the middle aged women to protect our families. Our government should be doing that. Would our government be prepared for us to take things into our own hands? Would they stand behind us or the muslims? I think that's the 64.00 question.
Is the problem judicial in nature... Is the problem legislative in nature... Is the problem with the executive...?
No. The problem is cultural.
texican - when the time comes I will be ready. My wife and I have recently been discussing contingency plans, alternate routes and the like. I'm arming myself.
It took one or two days at most for a First-world city to devolve into animalistic bedlam after Hurricane Katrina. All it takes is a breakdown in the institutional support infrastructure along with a temporary physical infra. breakdown. People will turn into animals in less than two days.
If it should come to this where I'm at either through some natural or jihadi disaster I'll be as ready as I can.
I do think that the jihadis will cause another disaster on the scale of a 9/11 or 7/7 bombing or the Mumbai or Spanish train bombings. They can't help themselves. When it happens in the United States again the decision will be made simple for everyone.
A_Plague_on_Both_Houses, great thoughts. I, too, have an email army, although quite small. Do you have a link to your 7 page 'Honey Do' list? I'd be interested in augmenting mine with info you might have that I never thought of to do.
My favorite topic right now is the topic of the media once again failing to connect the dots, either by deliberately misleading Joe Public or just sloppy, lazy journalism. Much has been made of Saudi Arabia et all condemning Hezbollah for irresponsible (or do they REALLY mean poorly timed????) actions vis-a-vis Israel. What is totally left out of the reporting is that SA is sunni and hezbollah is shia.... therein lies the rub and needs to be exploited as Hugh always points out.
oregonjack,
Find those who think as you, family, friends, from letters to the editor, local talk shows, people who show up at interfaith meetings and muslim events/lectures at universities or wherever. Have a meeting with them to get to know each other and find out what each can contribute in skills, etc. Then keep in contact by e-mail and phone.
Sponsor a movie like Obsession or speakers like Robert Spenser or Andrew Bostum or Steve Emerson.
Have forums/debates with topics like, Can the U.S. Constitution and the Koran Co-exist? Show up at all public events sponsored by Islam. Ask hard questions and be polite. Be sure to point out to the dhimmis there where they're ignorant.
Write letters to the editor and opinion pieces for your local newspaper. Send news articles to friends and family as much as possible.
Find out where the local mosques are, who the leaders and the imams are. Google them. Find out where they live and work. Drive by the mosques Fridays when they're coming out. Look carefully at the faces. Memorize them. Drive by the mosque at other times and see what's happening. If the mosque has a website, read it frequently.
Check out the Discount Tobacco markets and talk to the clerks, find out who owns them. Keep an eye on these stores. Find out who your neighbors are, join your neighborhood association or watch. If their are muslims in your neighborhood, drive by their homes frequently and watch for any suspicious signs like group meetings at night, no signs of family activity, etc.
Take a self-defense course. Buy a gun and learn to use it. Get a permit to carry. Take tai chi or a meditation course to learn to relax and concentrate better.
Read the trilogy of Islamic foundational texts, the koran, the hadith of Bukhari and muslim and the sira, the life of mohammad by Ibn Ishaq. Read all Robert Spenser's books, The Legacy of Jihad by Andrew Bostum, Eurabia and Dhimmitude by Bat Ye'or, all books by Sergi Trifkovic, Why I'm Not A Muslim by Ibn Warraq, etc. and other websites like FaithFreedom. org. Study them like you're studying for a test to provide yourself with ammunition to counter ignorance and pc ideology.
When you meet with allies, brainstorm and think outside the box. Be creative! That's all I can think of right now.
Here's a video deleted from MySpace that has our FBI agents tied up so they can't get to the important job of spying on all those pesky hezbollah members:
http://www.cair.com/video/kill_the_koran/
The Poetess,
That is about all that is required. You summed it up completely.
Poetess - outstanding advice.
In order to be a leader you must first be able to make tough decisions based on the truth. For 30 years + the government has been stocked with PC fools. This mindset makes it an imperative to avoid those tough decisions. When we make hard choices in life someone, somewhere is bound to be offended or hurt and in America today that simply will not be tolerated! Today in America it is okay for her citizens to be murdered, just don’t offend the murderers. Read the history of America. We lead ourselves! Washington did not have to tell the Minutemen to pick up their weapons and fight. They knew what to do on their own. Do not follow the PC dhimmis, the road they travel leads to misery and death.
Taxican is whimpy and cowardy, thinking that freedom should be bought at lower price.
I came from a Muslim country where I was a dhimmi. I was treated less than a dog.
Nothing is too costly for freedom. I love American founding father. They are brilliant, one of whom, Patric Henry, said, "Give freedom or give death."
Taxican, you should move to Muslim country, not as a visitor, but take a job there as a dhimmi. You will see whether freedom can be bought at all.
Give me freedom or give me death. Don't give me anything in between.
How can the FBI try and find which follower of islam is in the camp of hizbolla? Would it not be a simpler task to outlaw Islam, and remove all who follow it?
The reasons are many, will not a group that oppose everything this country is built on, and think they are more than the rest, already outside what should be allowed?
If they wish this on themselves, fine. Take it over there, away from the birds that fly here to build a nest in peace.
Islam here is the enemy.
Jesus said, "The one that come after me is a thief."
In deed Mohammad came after him. In deed he stole a lot of souls.
The Poetress -
Thank you for the ideas: very well put. I'm ordering more books right now and will find any mosques today (small town...). I'm looking forward to this!
:-)
Thank you again!
"FBI Director Robert Mueller told reporters in Toronto that agents were keeping a close eye on Hizbollah, especially 'when the international situation heats up.'"
-- from the article above
It's nice to see the King Dhimmi himself talking about Islamic Terrorism. Oh wait, I used "Islamic" and "Terroism" in the same sentence. Someone better call Ibrahim Hooper!
Patriot_1/17
Know the Enemy. Know Yourself.
Find out where the local mosques are, who the leaders and the imams are. Google them. Find out where they live and work. Drive by the mosques Fridays when they're coming out. Look carefully at the faces. Memorize them. Drive by the mosque at other times and see what's happening. If the mosque has a website, read it frequently.
Check out the Discount Tobacco markets and talk to the clerks, find out who owns them. Keep an eye on these stores. Find out who your neighbors are, join your neighborhood association or watch. If their are muslims in your neighborhood, drive by their homes frequently and watch for any suspicious signs like group meetings at night, no signs of family activity, etc.
Posted by: the poetess at July 19, 2006 11:41 AM
______
Stalking.
Harassment.
Terroristic Threats.
Trespassing and Criminal Trespass.
Invasion of privacy (civil).
Hate crimes.
They'll have an order of protection against you faster than you can behead an infidel.
Don't worry, be happy!
Islam is a religion of peace!
Viva El Presidente Jorge bin Jorge al-Bush!
Allahu akbar!
Regarding the video posted above, so the FBI feels you are not allowed to express your disapporval of islam as a freedom of speech and just because the film makers used the traditional islamic holy symbols of the koran, "allahu akbar", and machine guns there is something 'threatening' about it?
hmm...
So how come the guy in this picture (on the right)is allowed to threaten my form of govenment freely with a picture of the White House and "Isam will dominate" scribbled beneath it?
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060718/ids_photos_ts/r2054771025.jpg
Oh right, because islam will dominate peacefully.
Yeah, one "piece" at a time.
Allah who, Akbar.
Islam is religion of piss.
Piss be with you.
No_Mooselimbs - if you have a hotmail-type account with no traceable connection to yourself - post your address and I will send the honey~do list in microsoft word format to you, if that's acceptable.
I found it interesting to note that Robert Mueller assured Toronto reporters that FBI Agents were keeping a close eye on Hizbollah "especially WHEN the international sitution heats up" rather than "espcially IF the international situations heats up".
Maybe I'm being pedantic about his choice of words - or maybe he's knows something!
Kate
Hugh asks: "Why are demonstrations in support of groups formally declared by our government to be terrorist organizations permitted at all? Would a public demonstration in favor of Nazi Germany have been tolerated during World War II?"
There are no laws against publicly expressing your views, Hugh, even if those views are to openly side with a terrorist organization like Hamas. Back during World War II, the U.S. still had the Sedition Act. But the backlash against "McCarthyism" in the 1950's resulted in such laws being overturned by the courts as unconstitutional.
After all, "Professor" Ward Churchill said that the folks who worked in the World Trade Center were "little Eichmanns" who got what they deserved on 9-11. In other words, he agreed with what Osama himself said. And that's perfectly legal in our system too.
On what Constitutional grounds can you argue that the expression of such views, however repugnant, should be suppressed? And with anybody able to post anything at all to the Internet at any time, how could such a law be enforced?
Hugh writes: "The other day a public demonstration in support of Hezbollah, was held in San Francisco. Among those demonstrating were many Arabs."
If you want to see some photos of the demonstration taken by an independent photographer, go here:
http://zombietime.com/israeli_consulate_protest_july_13_2006/
What's really amazing (and sad) is that there were a number of ultra-left-wing Jews involved in those protests. One of them, a Mr. Slotnick, was interviewed on "The O'Reilly Factor" on Fox News last evening. It takes an awful lot of Marxist rationalizations for a Jew to join a demonstration in support of Hezbollah. O'Reilly may not have known it himself, but other observers at that protest said that the protesters were openly chanting their support of both Hamas and Hezbollah:
Hugh writes: "Why are they not rounded up and promptly expelled, if non-citizens, and if citizens, charged with aiding, in any number of ways, the enemy -- in this case, a terrorist organization? Is there something that needs to be added or modified in our laws, to deal with this?"
Hugh, I've explained this to you several times already, but you don't listen. The issue of whether you can put prior restriction of freedom of speech for advocating totalitarian ideologies was settled in the courts a long time ago. And the answer was NO. First that was answered for U.S. citizens. Then in 1991 it was answered for immigrants as well. No law against expressing radical views is going to stand scrutiny in the courts anymore. It's a dead issue.
There are only a couple of narrowly defined exceptions. One is sowing panic (the usual "shouting fire in a crowded theater" example, or playing a practical joke at an airport claiming you have a bomb). The other is outright incitement to violence. If a speaker at a rally, or even someone running a website, were to exhort Muslims to "get guns, get bombs, kill infidels NOW," he might be prosecuted.
But just saying you sympathize with the goals of Hezbollah is absolutely Constitutionally protected speech and that isn't going to change.
And I don't think it should change. We've seen how once other countries start down the road of political speech restrictions in "speech codes" and "hate speech laws," how those laws can be turned back on you.
After all, the laws you are suggesting would have resulted in the imprisonment of thousands of otherwise law-abiding Massachusetts residents for supporting the Irish Republican Army (IRA) for many years, including the outright donations by affluent Irish-Americans to NORAID. Would you have wanted that?
And even in the middle of World War II, you could have bought a copy of Mein Kampf at any large bookstore.
When was it determined that US constitutional rights apply to foreign citizens and organizations, let alone immigrants? Who put this out in a way that must be defended under starry decicis (sp?)? What were the judges smoking? Once they decided this, who was to say which rights apply to immigrants, and which ones don't? How come I didn't get to vote in 1992, 1996, 2000 and 2004? After all, I'm not a citizen either.
And your first point above is wrong. When one immigrates, one is required to affirm that one is not a member of totalitarian parties - Nazi or Communist. There's no question of rights in this case. If this can be done with potential would be citizens, it can be done with citizens under treason statutes.
Besides, during wartime, every nation not only has the right, but historically, has cracked down on civil liberties and constitutional rights. It's not an option of whether or not judges like it. None of the freedoms are absolute. Nor are they non existant. And once they exist somewhere in between, the point in between where they are positioned to exist can vary with circumstances - it isn't set in stone.
Taxican is whimpy and cowardy, thinking that freedom should be bought at lower price.
Posted by: ssa at July 19, 2006 12:24 PM
+++++++++++++=
ssa, thanks for the compliments, generally they are a lot worse.
We are pleased that you are now free and willing to fight the mos and islam for this freedom.
ssa, if you would read my closing again,
---
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense.
---
you will understand that the cost to maintain freedom in America in the the coming years will be greater than all other wars that America has fought to date.
It will be fight, die or convert. There will be no coversion on our part.
Prepare, be armed, be ready.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense.
"Is there any doubt that if anything happens, the police will be guarding the mosques and protecting the muslims? The Infidels, who are of course, responsible for all the troubles, will have to fend for themselves."
Norseman-
Not sure if your a wagering man, but considering the U.S. civilian population is better armed than many nations armies, you really got to like those odds in the event of civil breakdown. Thats assuming, btw, that even 15% of the national police force do as you suggest. Friend, you are welcome at my casino anytime!
Since when does the FBI have the experience or the assets to combat terrorists? The FBI was founded to combat interstate organized crime.
The feds are forgetting that the terrorist population came from the international playground. Where they operated with impunity.
Terrorists DO NOT recognize borders or jurisdiction. They strike where they want when they want. Infiltrating governments, industries, anything that can improve their position to leverage or attack whenever or wherever or whatever stands in their way.
We have seen so many times, terrorists hiding behind civilians. Be it placing tanks on residential streets. (must be a pain to paralel park) Compliments of Iraq.
The Hezbolah are setting up rocket launchers next to houses. Not to mention they are storing the rockets in local homes.
We have also been watching terrorists killing their fellow muslims, by the dozens day after day.
Our soldiers were losing in the revolutionary war, then comanding officers changed the rules of egagement, leading to a victory.
Viet Nam, our soldiers were being killed left and right. Again changing the rules of engagemnet we stood a chance.
Each time our soldiers have made us proud to be AMERICANS. They have fought and some have DIED for us for our freedom our rights. They have fought and died on foreign soil to spare us from fighting and dieing on AMERICAN SOIL!!!
9/11 WAS AMERICAN SOIL!!!!
Our Government has become arrogant. More worried about someone smoking a cigarette on the beach. (illegal in California) Condemning cities that take action creating their own immigration laws.
Eveyday I email and letter government officials to recognize the situation of the US and take appropriate action. None have yet!
Hitler died a broken man. Beaten down and broken by Allied Forces. Sadaam dug a hole and climbed into it, hiding from US SOLDIERS.
Our great nation is being taken apart piece by piece, from with in. Allowing outsiders to influence our government.
Taxican,
I sorry for calling you name and misunderstood your message.
At this rate, together we will fight against conversion.
Steven L. wrote: "There are no laws against publicly expressing your views, Hugh, even if those views are to openly side with a terrorist organization like Hamas. Back during World War II, the U.S. still had the Sedition Act. But the backlash against "McCarthyism" in the 1950's resulted in such laws being overturned by the courts as unconstitutional."
Interesting points in your comments above, thanks. I have been wondering where Sedition stood as a defense against islamicization. Looks like it is gone the way of good old fashiones American values, too.
Things seem rather down right now. I see this as the ideal time to clean up the terror dens. But when I see the news coverage of angry Lebanese-Americans cursing the US for taking longer to physically get ships to Lebanon than European relief ships (Europe being many thousand miles closer to Lebanon) And I read articles like this by Buchanan http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51116 and this one by Dobbs http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/18/dobbs.july19/index.html and this by Richard Cohen http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012290.php#comments and I have to shake my head.
These same people we are supposed to feel sorry for, hate the USA. They may hold American citizenship, but they spit on the US. They pray that Allah will destroy the US and its lap dog Israel, they support Hezbollah which promises to destroy the US, etc. etc. and then the bombs fall on them and they cry for help like pigs on the run from the big bad wolf.
I just dont get it. I would never trust them and never let up on this action, never.
'No_Mooselimbs - if you have a hotmail-type account with no traceable connection to yourself - post your address and I will send the honey~do list in microsoft word format to you, if that's acceptable.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses'
I will work on that.
All this article underscores is the need to outlaw Islam in the western democracies. Did anyone ever seriously believe that Islam, with its institutionalized first-degree murder, would NOT lead to widespread violence on western soil? If anyone did, it just goes to show how wrong people can be...
International
Stealth-assault
Lethally
Administered
(by)
Mosques
"Is there any doubt that if anything happens, the police will be guarding the mosques and protecting the muslims? The Infidels, who are of course, responsible for all the troubles, will have to fend for themselves."
-Norseman
The latest news gripping the State of Maine is that a few weeks ago some guy rolled a pigs-head into a mosque during prayers.
The newspapers have been ablaze with the injustice for weeks. The Governor and his staff visited the Mosque to show 'solidarity'. Federal Hate Crimes are forthcoming.
A 'theory-to-practice' datapoint.
limes wrote, Hate Crimes are forthcoming,
Why? Was the head overheard muttering a hateful islamophobic diatribe as it rolled by?
No. The pig was female.
Limes,
that cut all the way to the bone.
Nothing like the sword of truth,
I say.
The only thing I forgot, oregonjack, is use this wonderful net we have to talk and debate and learn. Use it to communicate, to diseminate ideas. Use it.
Poetess;
I think that was 'tounge in cheek'. In any case thanks.
Your piece earlier was so on the mark it was eerie.
Tracing and tracking terrorists is a simple procedure, even a caveman can do it?
Or they Muslim?
Answer yes, and you have a terrorist or sympathizer.
Tracing and tracking terrorists is a simple procedure, even a caveman can do it?
Are they Muslim?
Answer yes, and you have a terrorist or sympathizer.
poetess,
Great idea regarding drive-by surveillance. Some will have us believe it is a crime to get lost while searching for an address, now? LOL!
We got'em reaching deep into their playbook....all that's left is to not violate the constitutional rights now extended to foreign nationals, get the courts on board,ZZZZZZZZZ
From biorabbi's post above...
"The overwhelming majority are Shia from a specific Lebanese town--all are clustered in and around Dearborn, Michigan."
Why are they in Dearborn?, what are the major industries there?
From GreatShaitan's post..
"They may hold American citizenship, but they spit on the US. They pray that Allah will destroy the US and its lap dog Israel, they support Hezbollah which promises to destroy the US, etc. etc. and then the bombs fall on them and they cry for help like pigs on the run from the big bad wolf."
We see the same thing here in Oz. A large number of Lebanese Australians are screaming because our government can't get them out of Lebanon quick enough. I think they should be checked for Hezbollah membership or sympathies before we let them back into Oz, what were they doing in Lebanon in the first place? I would be happy for the Israelis to vet all these people before the get onto a ship to come back here.
Why are demonstrations in support of groups formally declared by our government to be terrorist organizations permitted at all?
1) Cuz they're a non-Christian religious group
2) Cuz they're non-Caucasians
3) Cuz they're a minority
4) Cuz they're aggrieved victims
5) Cuz they're anti-American
6) Cuz their belief system aligns so well with Marxism
610 * 623 * 732* 1066* 1215 * 1453 * 1492 * 1683 * 1928 * 1938 * 1948 * 1996 * 2001
Cuz they be prerogates.
"Islam is the religion of peace."
Yes, sure, and he Nazis were the party of getting-the-trains-to-run-on-time...
"Islam is the religion of peace."
Yes, sure, and the Nazis were the party of getting-the-trains-to-run-on-time...