Group involved in Mumbai bombings wants to establish Islamic state in India

Islam means peace,islam means peace.....Blah blah,blah blah, blah blah blah blah.

Hit snooze button and wait for a real newsflash
based on facts.

Indian muslims can go packing to Pakistan

I don't believe that the man now firmly ensconced in American academic life has for one minute abandoned the goals of Jihad. Perhaps he has decided it is best to promote other instruments. Perhaps, now in the United States, he understands why his tune must change. After all, what would you say if you were in his position, and believed in Islam the way he does?

Indian muslims can go packing to Pakistan

Posted by: Lulu at July 15, 2006 10:22 AM

The sooner the better..........

Zathras,
The dhimmi world does not like the solution that Hindus implement.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/012242.php#c243863

I have relatives in India (Maharastra State). They are sick of constant jihad and political posturing of Muslims. Meanwhile, frequent violence breaks out between Ismaili Muslims and Shiites, or sometimes Ahmadis and others. It's endless. Even if India gave up Kashmir, the Muslims wouldn't stop until every square foot of India inhabited by Muslims was absorbed. But again, even when they have their own space, ruled by Muslims, they are still killing each other.

Salman Rushdie saw what Indians see and declared that Muslims and Hindu Nationalists are equally evil. He was wrong, and somewhat sentimentally biased because of his Muslim upbringing. He was wrong to say the problem was "God". The problem is Allah, and Allah will never be God. Allah is the opposite of God. That's why the daughters of Allah have no joy in life and the men are evil killers.

Mumbai’s Muslims fear a backlash

Ummah News Links

Why is Mohammad Ahmadullah Siddiqi allowed to stay in the U.S.??? Once again my point...we have to clean our own house before we accuse the Russians, Canadians and others of being soft. This man is here doing god knows what....

Don't complain about illegal mexicans when you have legal people like this getting in. Once again I would prefer to live next to 10 illeagal (heck even 100) mexicans then to one legal msulim like this.

Funny, how all these muslim thinkers keep pointing to supposed biases in india, yet tottaly ignore the gross discrimination and attackes against nonmuslims in pakistan and bangladesh. The population figures also supports this, while the nonmuslim population in pakistan and bangladesh has declined greatly due to the ethnic cleansing practiced by the muslims, the muslim population of india has greatly increased. now who is discriminating? on against who? every indian should be enraged to learn about this, and the hypocracy of indian muslims when they complain that india is biased against muslims.

illeagal = illegal
msulim = muslims

Perhaps more correct...

From the above link-

Police are just guessing about such things. We must have a thorough investigation,” Maulana Jalaluddin Umri, a member of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board, told Reuters.

“There is no community that does not have a black sheep, so why always point fingers at one section of the community when these things happen?”

There is ALWAYS ONLY ONE SECTION of the community, the muslims, who do "such things" A whole herd of black sheep. Their titles, and affiliations are pathetic and meaningless.
How dare they even think that they can have their own state in India? There is plenty of space in Pakistan, so they can just go and live their with their multitudes of brothers and sisters - happily "never" after.
Muslims are the dhimmis in all the host countries.

greatcomet said, "Don't complain about illegal mexicans when you have legal people like this getting in. Once again I would prefer to live next to 10 illeagal (heck even 100) mexicans then to one legal msulim like this.
You are correct. A tleast the mexican people are happy, they love dance and music, they work hard, and would be loyal and patriotic, and I've found them to be honest.
I wouldn't want the miserable whiny holier than thou pinched faced muslims as my neighbours either.
Helloooo, do they get the message yet?

"Once again I would prefer to live next to 10 illeagal (heck even 100) mexicans then to one legal msulim like this".

Good one,Greatcomet!

The things one learns on JW...

I didn't even know there was a "Western Illinois University". I'll have to Google that one...

I think I have actually called a state agency in Macon, Illinois, once...knew about it...

Not to knock WSU, but I wonder how many other weasels we have in other (for me) obscure educational institutions around the country?

Wonder what Mohammad U. Siddiqi has going for him out in that garage out behind his house?

Looks like its time for the FBI boys to get back to work...

desidude said:
>> Funny, how all these muslim thinkers keep pointing to supposed biases in india,...

muslim thinkers? If that isn't an oxymoron, I don't know what is. The trouble with the infidels is that they don't read the Koran thorougly:

5.101: O you who believe! do not put questions about things which if declared to you may trouble you, and if you question about them when the Quran is being revealed, they shall be declared to you; Allah pardons this, and Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing.

5.102: A people before you indeed asked such questions, and then became disbelievers on account of them.
--- From The Koran at the Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia.

Muslims are prohibited from questioning, inquiring, or thinking. Why do you think the Islamic terrorists give up their lives in return for the promise of virgins in their after-life? Of course, if you were a muslim, the question would be a waste of bandwidth ;)

The Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) is a banned Islamic fundamentalist organization, which advocates the ‘liberation of India’ by converting it to an Islamic land.
............

Here in the US press when the situation in India is mentioned at all it is usually linked to Kashmir alone, which, we are often reminded, is "90% Muslim". The implication often seems to be that if Kashmir were handed over to Pakistan that the problems would end. From what I have gathered, that would only embolden groups like SIMI.

Even a big hunk of India (Pakistan) wasn't enough for the greedy muslims; they want it all. Isn't that so typical of imperialistic muslims who are never satisfied, never content to live and let live. They want to enslave the entire world. Why is that so difficult for some people to admit? Until the world sits up and takes notice, muslim imperialism will continue until they contaminate every nation on earth.

And muslims wonder why they are despised? I wonder what they'll do when their relentless lies become reality and they are the targets of real hate and retribution? I can see that lurking right around the corner and CAIR will be powerless to stop it. Muslims will soon realize just what a drop in the bucket they really are, and they won't like it. Crying wolf is never a smart ploy.

Quite frankly, I am amazed that people on this thread are dedbating this issue. The Hindustan Times reported that on June 27, 2006 the Intelligence Bureau had sent the Mumbai Govt., which is the Congress party, a very severe warning that the LeT operatives in cahoots with the SIMI are planning a disaster. The Govt. apparently ignored it. The possible reason is that the Govt. was too shy of "rounding up" Muslims becauswe of their "preferred minority" status. (50% reservation for them already is in the cards. So, why round them up now ?)

As I see it, it will be a Civil War in India. This cannopt go on. Yes, my parents and dear ones may also perish in such a (undesired but necessary) war. But, I would still support a war against Islam as it is a legitimate one to rid the world of this moronic Mohammedan cult.

My Jewish friends in Israel are just doing that (hopefully). They (Jews) are brave and practical people. May the death of Islam happen in this present war through their hands, and I pray that USA does not start condemning them (Israel) because of the sweet smell of petro-dollars.

I pray for the success of the Jewish state of Israel to legitimately fight back to the finish and have Hezbollah and their supporters: Iran, Syria wiped out.

americaningermany,

"a lot of Mexicans HATE Americans. Flat out. I've experienced it myself."

A lot of people hate Americans because the the inconsistent and foolish actions of the US Government. Heck, during Clinton's criminal bombing of Serbia, I absolutely despised the US Government and I AM an American proudly born and raised in Dixie. I'm a former military contractor but I was praying that the Serbs would inflict a major defeat on the US military. I even sent info to the Serbs about how to take down BlackHawk helicopters. For that I was questioned by the FBI. I dared them to arrest me and they admitted that I'd broken no laws.

I agree that the US has lost control of its borders but I don't see Mexican nannies and landscapers as the primary threat. I'd rather another million hard working Mexicans come across the southern border than just five jihadist come across the Canadian border. That's the biggest threat. Unfortunately Bush and company have no plans to control either border.

thehindu, Vikrant, any other Mumbaikars here

Why does the Shiv Sena seem so dormant this time? Where's the spirit of 1993?

Mbkaf

Sitting in the US, I feel guilty about wishing it, but I hope you are right. The worst thing that could happen is Muslims getting the wrong message from the lack of a retaliation.

Lulu

We need you running things in India - any Hindu who dared say what you said would be called a Hindu fanatic. At least, you don't fit that description.

americaningermany

You are completely right - even if one's an Infidel, that is no rationale for breaking US laws. It's spitting, nay peeing, on those who legally immigrated, like me.

"Where is the political will"? By K.P.S.Gill:

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20060713&fname=kpsgill&sid=1

Infidel Pride,
Don't feel guilty. Things are happening. And what Chicken up there wrongly states, it was 15% reservation. And the traitor who proposed it has already backed up. (You know, the one who had a back door entry to the Rajya Sabha). And the rest of the political thugs are not about to propose such a thing.

Indians that is most Hindus excepting the commies all love America as much as their own country and dream of developing the country to the standards of US.
We idolise America to acheive what America has acheived in the aspects of standard of Living and propserity.
As is evident with most of the Surveys 71% of the Urban population of India are favourable of USA foremost among anyother nation.
In no nation does the US enjoy the credibility and appreciation than in India and among the Hindus..
It becoz of our Dhimmi politicians who aligned with the commies and muslims right from the Independece sellign of every inch of India to them and allowing the demographic seige of the muslims...
US needs to consolidate this opinion of Hindus numbering almost 900 million all over the World by takig the war on terror to conclusinve end which should finally result in the disarming of PAkisthan of its nuclear weapons..
Even after supporting Pakisthan for over a 50 years the US, stills ebnjoys the appreciation beocz we Hindus knew the compulsion of those days but even after so much help to Pakisthan Hindus dont hate US but inturn appreciate it is a proof enough and reason enough for the US to do whateevr it can not to loose this support of the HINDUS.
The commies are making the noise again that it is becoz of India's foreign policy tilt towards US that this bombing of Mumbai resulted...Theya re justifying terror and providing a reasonn for these muslim barbarians to attack more ..

Hey ,

Beleive me I heard some where that a Hindu defence group is in the formative stage and I have credible information of that which beleives in action their primary aim is to retaliate for every Hindu life lost..
This is to be the obvious reaction of a frustated majority who lives in its own country as a minority devoid of voice and kept in ignorance and the GOVT does'nt value their lives.....
This is happening in an organised way, and hope they will succeed in avenging every hindu life and infedel life with 100's of the beleivers....
Isreal is doing well, I think Isreal shouldnt stop till a 1000 of the beleivers are slane in those hell holes of middleeast avenging the lives of infedels in India, Thailand,Jammu and Kashmir over the past week.
I am ever ready to avenge the deaths of my country men and if presented with a chance to escape after commiting a crime Ill kill all the mullah of my land......

To Arjun Sevak: It's 50% reservation now, dude ! Review Arjun Singh's gameplan.

India wil face Civil War soon. The only thing that is hopeful is that if this (unwanted) bloodshed happens, many other countries facing Islamic terrorism may join the force, but then again one doesn't know for sure.

One thing is certain: Bush's policy towards the Middle East is correct. Unlike Clinton, he is not rebuking Israel.

Maybe Bush understands dhimmitude better.

Infidel Pride, yes we will be chickens in this war - we have emigrated to USA long ago. And, other thyan proividing moral support we may not be able to anything else - except to go and physically fight. For that, our brave Arjuns are there !

However I am still not sure if the Civil War shall happen at all. With Narendra Modi, Pravin Togadia and Ashok Singhal, we have no other leader to protect Hindus. Pramod Mahajan gone is a bigh loss. Other than this, I am not sure if Indians )Hindus) have the will. Just read on the web (Outlook India) KPS Gill makes the observation that other than pumping up the rhetoric in the parliament, Congress Govt. can not do a thing against Muslim radicals. The SIMI is laughing its lungs off. Salman Khursheed and Mulayam Singh Yadav are friends. And you know what ? Salman Khursheed is the defense lawyer for SIMI (Students Islamic Movement in India). Salman being the Cong rep. in UP and the lawyer on behalf of SIMI, how can SIMI be in trouble ? They will continue to provide personnel and logistics to Lashkar-e-Qahar with much glee. Dies anybody in the right mind think that Cong. will go after SIMI and haved all of them behind bars ? NO ! That would be a nail for Salman Khursheed's career in UP and Central politics.

Actually, we have traitors within. So, no matter how much we fill the JW with such personal venom, we can't do a thing.

Let's not act like jokers. India is not Israel. Civil War shall remain a bloody fantasy in India.

Ram Nam Satya Hai ! Desi log murda hai !

Approximate Translation: In the name of Lord Ram, all desis are dead

Chicken,
I will trade a million of your type for one Infidel Pride. Don't even try to think that you are in his class. You forget that the fact that excrecence like you breathe today is due largely to the fact that the people whom you call as 'cowards' fought the islamic scrouge on their lands for more than a thousand years. The result is that the Hindus retained their identity, even though they lost most of their land.

I know, wherever Infidel Pride is, he will not denounce his own people, very unlike you. And moral support can only come from men of character, which you don't seem to be acquainted with.

People like you do not belong to a race or a religion, you simply run when things get sour, in search of a safer nest, and when things get bad at the new nest, you fly to another tree.

So, Chicken, let this be the last time I have to respond to you. Do write that letter to your senator asking him to make your nest a little bit safer.

If the terrorists responsible for the latest attack in India were supported by radical elements within Pakistan, then it would be nice if India responds to the attacks in the same that Israel responded to the kidnapping of its soldiers. However, I believe that India might not do this because of the fear that Pakistan could attack India with its nuclear weapons.

Dear Christian

India does not have the guts to attack Pakistan. Just think of the suicidal attacks on the Indian Parliament. The Pakistan-trained Jihadis were killed and the global media raised the hype that "India and Pakistan" are on the brink of the war. Well, that was to give India some credit because it was "thinking" of going into a war. In India, Words speak louder than any actions, much to the chagrin of many posters on JW. (This is not a politically correct statement, but is factually correct.) However, at the end, India did not attack Pakistan. Can you just imagine a similar situation (Pak. vs. India) with US vs. Canada, and USA just acting the way India did (or will do in future) ?

To quip, regarding Kashmir much false hype by Amnesty International (in UK) has been raised that Kashmir is a "disputed" territory. The US has also included such citations in its annual State Department Report on Global Human Rights. But, India never openly made it a major issue. India, to my knowledge, never talked back to USA by stating that the state of Texas was literally snatched from Mexico, and annexed to USA. So, is Texas a disputed territory ? Did India say this very openly at the United Nations ? India takes and has taken defensive posture. This one example amongst many shows India's defensive and weak mentality. India, does not have the fighting mentality, regrettablly.

India is no Israel or USA. The existences of these countries have occurred, as I read history, through bloodshed and slaughter. The people in these countries fought for their existences, and civil rights. Jews had faced the threat of Auschwitz, and have understood what it takes to retain civil rights and personal freedoms. Similarly in the 1850's Civil War of USA (North vs. South) countless people died. This hadc actually reshaped the identity of what we know as USA. Good or bad, the facts are facts.

In the latest event, when the Indian Airlines was hijacked, the Minister of External Affairs, Mr. Jaswant Singh, a retired ICS officer, hadc personally taken Maulana Masood Azhar giving him a safe passage to Pakistan from where he still conducts terrorist activities.

The way to combat this menace of Islamic terrorism, is to actually become a terrorist. The terrorists fight an asymmetrical warfare. They target innocent, unarmed human beings. Their hearts are that of a demon. Recall Abu Musab Al-Zarqwai decapitating Nick Berg and the video shown on the CNN ? That's what is legitimate in Islam. The way to combat such terrorism is to retaliate in kind. That is, if 10 innocent people get killed by a first time terrorist attack, then without any qualms, the victim country must get 100 people killed in the aggressor country. That is the best option to thwart the terrorists. Israel has such a policy, but India does not (or more correctly, cannot affort one).

Since the MK Narayan had taken over the Indian intelligence, did you notice that incidence of terrorism has increased ? (Hindustan Times reported yesterday).

Also, attacking Pakistan would not sit well with the majority Hindu population. They fear that their Muslim neighbors would start to kill them making it a repeat of 1947. It is trauma that is the cash cow of Indian politicians for their vote bank. So, how can you expect India to attack Pakistan ? It's all postuyring without any real effort.

Given my experience, I would encourage Christians to convert Muslims out of this barbaric religion. But, converting these Muslims to Hinduism is a no no, simply because of the passivity (aka fear of fighting) preached by the stalwarts of this culture/value system.

Thank you for asking the question.

Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal

Also, attacking Pakistan would not sit well with the majority Hindu population. They fear that their Muslim neighbors would start to kill them making it a repeat of 1947.

Christian is right - war is unlikely for the same reason war was unlikely between the US and the Soviets - nukes have a deterrance effect. That didn't stop India from reponding in Kargil after the nuke tests. However, Bibi Netanyahu was right - Communists followed an irrational goal rationally, whereas Islamic extremists (his words, not mine) follow the same goals irrationally. As a result, I do expect Pakistan to one day launch a first strike on India, and I do expect a nuclear war to take place between the 2 countries.

It won't be upto the dhimmis in India. Just as the Iran looks like they will be canning the pipeline deal - there is a price cap on even dhimmitude from the Congress.

Infidel Pride,
This is iran just saving face. manmohan singh, whatever he is, sacked mani shankar aiyar who was the chief architect of this pipeline and the economic newspapers have been slamming the government for even thinking about this pipeline. I have been saying for a long time, this pipeline is never going to be built. If the government was serious about this project, mani would still be the petroleum minister, instead of preparing the fields for commonwealth games in New Delhi. Even dhimmi congress has its limits.

Like they did in 1947, 1965, 1971, 1998?

Precisely. In 1998 the slaughter was much more grim. Captain Saurabh Kalia was captured by the ISI agents in the Kargil conflict. His eyes were just torn out of his eye sockets, and his genitals were just pulled out, manually. Does this barbaric way of killing resonate with what Abu Musab Al-Zarqwai did to Nick Berg, Ken Bigley and Eugene Anderson ? Did we (Indians read "Hindus") do anything like this in the 1971 war in the liberation of Bangladesh - when 93,000 Pakistani soldiers were apprehended by the Indian Army under general Jagjit Singh Arora ? Go back to 1947, and you shall find that Muhammad Surahwahardy had called for Direct Action and had slaughtered 3,000 Hindus (including refugees) to avenge the riots in Noakhali, Bangladesh.

My whole point is that the (Hindus) are not barbarians, and as such they cannot combat any form of terrorism. Hindus lack the "quality" to fight it out with terrorists, with reciprocating brutality. You need not kill millions to thwart the terrorists. All you need to do is to fight it out with much barbarism. That sends a message that barbarians (Islamic jihadis) would understand. They (jihadis) know that they are winning in sending the message by inflicting the most unspeakable brutalities on innocent, unarmed and hapless women, chlidren and men.

That's my whole point. Unfortunately, this message does fall on deaf ears. I believe that "sense of practicality/pragmatism" is not in the collective gene pool of Hindus. They are always scared to death, even if they haved apprehended the enemy (Islamic jihadi). It is very easy for a jihadi to accept death by the firing squad, or by lethal injection orv whatever. But, if a jihadi knows that if caught, then he will face the treatment of Saurabh Kalia, or worse, he and his family will suffer the most barbaric treatment, then the fellow will think twice. On this score, our Muslim neighbor on whom we have conferred the most preferred status in terms of trade/commerce etc., is simply grinning ear to ear.

Our whole approach to combating terror appears to be based on the principles of ahimsa. By invoking this principle in its diluted form, we make it easy for the jihadis to act it out. If we apprehend a terrorist, we confer him a preferred treatment and he is happy even if he goes to jail. Thanks to our beloved Bapu (naked fakir from India), whose asinine policies of Muslim appeasement has won our Independence and Partition. It is a shame that our edeucated middle class vote for the party that is now the custodian of this ahimsa policy. These voters don't seem to understand that all the economic boom depends on the stability of the country and its ability to protect its own self. The so-called "aggresive party" (BJP) is no better. On their watch, Jaswant Singh held hand of the noted Maulana Masood Azhar and delivered him to Pakistan.

Indian seem to blame USA for not declaring Pakistan as a terrorist state. Why should USA do that? USA, unlike India, looks after its own interests first. Musharraf is just a lapdog of USA. Pakistan is governed by the AAA syndrome: Allah, America, Army . So, if USA sneezes, then Mush shall cough. If USA leaks, Pakistan will say that it is raining.

India cannot be either. It tries to maintain equidistance with the West (non-aligned) and Islam. However it is more tilted towards Islam because of the historical reasons.

The bottomline in all this is that the failed policies of India in combating terrorism, are a by-product of the intrinsic passive culture in India. For fighting for one's beliefs and principles, India has shown enough restraint( i.e.timidity, as the majority being Hindus. A few bravados here and there are largely aberrations or exceptions to the rule.) USA thus rightly believesd that helping India would be disastrous. USA cannot send in troops to fight insurgents in Kashmir or elsewhere. India has to fight it herself. This is probably a headache for India as the engagement is now totally unconventional and needs to be adapted to. So, what can now India do ? Weep.

You missed my point. Was any of the 5 wars unpopular? The only one I read about firsthand (from the news, as opposed to history books) was the 1998 Kargil conflict, and all of India coalesced against Pakistan - even the cricket series was discontinued. It's obvious that Indian sentiments were united against Pakistan, even if that meant all out war. I didn't notice any Move-On style demonstrations in Jadavpur, Hyderabad, Lucknow or Moradabad, the way we had here in Berkeley, SF, or in case of the UK, in London. You don't offer any evidence to support your assertion that a war wouldn't sit well with the average Hindu. How about the 91% approval rating that the NDA had after Pokhran II, and all those demonstrations in support of India going nuclear.

Also, if you think US has it in its interests to support Pakistan, you'd have disagreements with just about everybody on this forum, since nobody here distinguishes between Pakistan, Syria, Iran, KSA, Egypt, Bangladesh, et al, and nobody thinks that any Islamic country can be a friend to the US. Only Bush, Clinton, Allbright, Rice, Powell, et al seem to think that.

" Hindus lack the "quality" to fight it out with terrorists "
from a posting above

That is the reason why India is still a majority Hindu state

Your arguments are very one sided. If you didn't face the very same problems that "non-pragmatic Indian hindus" faced, you wouldn't be posting on this site.

You state that hindus lack that guts to met out brutal treatment to terrorists, then what should be said of the Bush administration for coming under fire for just detaining terrorists at guantanamo bay. No civilized country or people in the world endorses eye gauging and genital mutliation.

You also state that Pakistan is a US dog, that serves American Interests. Well. Guess what? It is rabid and it bites. Do you honestly believe that terrorists from training camps in Pakistan will not target America because their government depends on the US? Do you honestly believe that guys like AQ Khan will not sell nuclear technology to Islamic terrorists just because he received a European education.

Your racist remarks serve no purpose in the fight in which we are all fighting, christians, hindus, jews, sikhs, buddhists and other infidels alike. Every religion is being persecuted by Islam and right now the only reason for tolerance is not fear but the desire to remain civilized. Once Islamists have abused that enough, then everyone ,regardless of religion or race, will rise up against this hydra.
Go figure out the big picture and stop castigating hindus for not being more proactive than any other religion in the world. Circumstances, not religion, will determine reactions.

for a free world

the hindu

Kindly read articles from Daily Pioneer. This newspaper must be put on your link's list on the left...

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=mitra%2Fmitra193%2Etxt&writer=mitra

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=EDITS&file_name=edit1%2Etxt&counter_img=1

Dhimmi_Hindu

Thanks for the links - I tried looking for the Pioneer on Google, but for some reason (I left out the 'daily'), I was unable to find it.

P.S. Obviously, your choice of handles is yours, but why do you call yourself a Dhimmi?

"and right now the only reason for tolerance is not fear but the desire to remain civilized."

We are all like the Great Reluctant Warrior.

Arjun

"We are all like the Great Reluctant Warrior", who seldom speaks but keeps his blade sharp and ready.

jai hind

the hindu

The Hindu,
I refer to the reluctant warrior who put down his Gandeev upon seeing the size of Duryoudhan's army, who wept that he would not kill so many people. Only he could lead the army of the Right against Duryodhan. Ultimately he was told by Krishna to do it. He did it, not because he liked it, but because he was the only one who could do it, could lead the forces of right against Duryodhan.

I write about him because ultimately we shall have to face the enemy on our land. And we shall have to do what he had to do, we may not like it, but this war was started by them, and we have to finish it. If not to avenge our people, hundreds of millions of them victims of islam, but merely to save ourselves.

Jai Hind
Arjun

Dear Arjun

Forgive me for my lack of observation.

I do not know how I could miss that reference to the great Arjuna, wielder of the gandeev, protector of the weak, and vanquisher of foes.

My humble apologies

jai hind

the hindu

The Hindu/Jai Hind writes:

" ...No civilized country or people in the world endorses eye gauging and genital mutliation."

Well. With a terrorist one needs to act like a terrorist. Israel is actually "terrorizing" the Hizballah and Hamas jihadis. That's what needed to be done. That's the language the terrorists understand. To make terrorists afraid and thibk twice of what they want to do, one needs engage in uncivilzed acts. Of course eye gauging and genital mutiliation are not the only ways of terrorizing the terrorists. Ever heard of Alberto Fujimori and the Tupac Amaru/Shining Path terrorists ? There are other "brutal" options. The civilized world is in fool's paradise if it thinks that legislative methods and conventional warfare is going to end terrorism. That's simply not true.

"...Well. Guess what? It is rabid and it bites."

I am happy that both you and me agree on this. However USA knows how to keep a rabid dog under control better than India. That's the irony. This means that USA is not afraid of using force when the dog tends to get out of control. Can India do the same with Pakistan or even a podunk country like Bangladesh - that is sending jihadis across the borders of Assam and West Bengal and then to Mumbai and other places in India ? Can India flex its muscle even on Bangladesh ? I doubt it as I have not seen any proof of India's resolve on this matter.

"Your racist remarks serve no purpose in the fight in which we are all fighting, christians, hindus, jews, sikhs, buddhists and other infidels alike. Every religion is being persecuted by Islam and right now the only reason for tolerance is not fear but the desire to remain civilized. Once Islamists have abused that enough, then everyone ,regardless of religion or race, will rise up against this hydra."

I am surprised at your allegations. Can you point out exactly what is racist in my remarks ? Hindus are timid and have shown cowardice, is a well-known fact. You might want to refer to Will Durant's epoch-making book: THE STORY OF CIVILIZATION (Our Oriental Heritage), part 1. Just see what Durant had to write about India that succumbed to Mohammedan invasion. Is Will Durant a racist too ? Maybe you don't read well or maybe you don't know what you are writing. For example, amongst the ethnicities you cited, viz., only Jews, Christians and Sikhs can fight Islam. These communities have a history of doing so. Hindus, Buddhists and Jains don't. The history of Muslim invasion in India is replete with harrowing tales of rape, pillage, loot, arson and murder simply because the Hindus were unable to withstand the Mohammedan terrorism. So, either you are clueless on the historical facts or else you are engaging in baseless gorilla patriotism.

"Once Islamists have abused that enough, then everyone ,regardless of religion or race, will rise up against this hydra."

I agree, but Hindus will not be able to rise up. After a majority of Hindus are devoured by this Islamic monster, then the hydra will be confronted by other ethnicities/cultures.

Lastly, USA knows that India is a timid, soft state. The situation is comparable to a child from an aristrocatic, decent, well-grommed, family (Indian Hindus) in a brawl with a uncouth, demonic, streetfighter (Muslim jihadis). If you can't get this straight, then it is too bad for India. India knows that given its Muslim population, and the corrupt politicians like Mullah Singh Yadav, Arjun Singh and their ilk, it cannot control Islamic terrorism. More importantly, I believe that Hindus themselves don't give a damn. If Hindus were so determined and united against Islamic terrorism, they would not have voted against the BJP-led NDA in the recent times. That NDA lost, could suggest that really Hindus care more about their personal life than fool around with a menace called Islam. That Hindus are never united is a sign that should not go unreckoned.

Bin Kafir

you wrote

"Ever heard of Alberto Fujimori and the Tupac Amaru/Shining Path terrorists ? There are other "brutal" options"

Ever heard of Gujarat, Mumbai, how hindus retaliated after muslims mobs killed hindus. Can you even touch a muslim in the US,EU or any other Christian Country without having fifty lawsuits slapped on you..or the more important question..Do you even dare to??

again

"However USA knows how to keep a rabid dog under control better than India."

Yes that is why Pakistani trained islamists attack US all the time, because the US exhibits such authoritative control over them. You, with all your sophisticated technology, complain about Mexican immigration and you criticize India over her border control.

Also remember very clearly that the Indian army has kicked Pakistani A** four times. If America thinks that India is such a soft state, then why are Americans lobbying so hard to get India into the nuclear club, to partner with India in trade and defence(especially defence)?

again

"Hindus are timid and have shown cowardice, is a well-known fact"

Then who the hell are men like Prithviraj Chauhan, Maharana Pratap and Shivaji-Christians,Jews, Sikhs?..I don't think so.Get your facts straight dude.
I am aware of the Muslim conquest of India, but like I stated in my opening line "HINDUS STILL ARE A MAJORITY IN INDIA". By your ignorant analysis, India should be an Islamic state by now. In case you didn't know.IT ISN"T AND IT WILL NEVER BE.

By the same standards you choose for Hindus, should I state that Christians ran away from Communists in Vietnam or that Christians ran away from islamic tribals in Somalia. Or for that matter where were Christians when millions of their fellow christians were slaughtered in Armenia, and now in Sudan. You analysis is irrelevant and imprudent, you attack Hindus and you attack me as being some sort of a timid race with no knowledge and as something that deserves to be wiped out. Therefore yes I consider you to be an ignorant racist.

You have also proved that you are most probably worthless in this fight against islamic terrorism and therefore your ignorance need not receive anymore repsonses.

Suggestion for you dude-take the shaheda --you will feel right at home

for a free world

the hindu

You wrote

thehindu

Well said, and Arjun is right too - I rebutted him a few times, but am done arguing, or paying any attention to him.

The Hindu/Jai Hind wrote:

"Ever heard of Gujarat, Mumbai, how hindus retaliated after muslims mobs killed hindus."

I sure did, but this in no way matches with the sustained resolve of the Muslim terrorists bent on harming Hindus and India. A sporadic outburst here an there is meaningless. Also, Indian govt. (not the Gujarat Govt.) has prosecuted the Hindus who have taken active part in the Best Bakery assault. That was to my best recollection, according to the BJP mouthpiece: Panchajannya (edited by Tarun Vijay), to make Muslims elsewhere happy and hence thwart further attacks inside India. This looks like a full scale appeasement effort, rather retaliation.

"Can you even touch a muslim in the US,EU or any other Christian Country without having fifty lawsuits slapped on you..or the more important question..Do you even dare to??"

In USA, to my knowledge, physical retaliation against Muslims don't happen. The American doesn't need to. Here we can read Satanic Verses with much loudness and can the secular Hindus in India do the same ? Maqbool Fida Hussain paints Hindu gods and goddesses in nude and almost gets away, till the blowback from the Muhammad (Danish) cartoons hit the sails. In India, every form of Muslim appeasement by Hindus (who are slated to be slaughtered per Quranic verses) takes place. In India the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits have been butchered, systematically raped, expelled from their homeland in Kashmir and lived as refugees in the trans-Jamuna extension of New Delhi. In India the Constitution is overruled in light of the Shah Bano case (upholding Sharia laws). In India, the leader of the Hindutva party (BJP's Atal Vihari Bajpayee) makes it his premium to dole out Federal tax dollars to Muslims for Hajj pilgrimage. And the tax dollars have their share of Hindu tax remuneration. In India, Muslims have kicked the laws of secular, dcemocratic republic into the dustbin of history. For exasmple, the Article 44 (Directive Principles of State Policy) emphasizes that every state within the Republic of India shall enforce the Uniform Civil Code. Nothing has happened to that end since 1950s. And the leaders of the AIML (All India Muslim League) have threatened to make riots and carnage, if UCC is implemented. Thus, in a secular country a Muslim can marry 4 times and get away with it. Hindus, Christians, and other minoritries can marry only once. So much for equality under the auspices of the Indian Constitution ! On top of that now Arjun Singh (UPA's Human Development Minister) has implemented the 50% reservation that would benefit Muslims and marginalize Hindus. And, in most of the cases Muslim MPs and MLAs contest elections when there are criminal cases pending against them. The Govt. always (pro-Hindu or otherwise) sides with Muslims even when evidence exists against them (Muslims). And finally does any Hindu or the party s/he votes for, dare to raise a voice against these acts ?

Now let's look at USA for a moment. USA has shown the guts (as always) to get into the most troubled spots. Call it WW-II, Korean War, Vietnam, Iraq, taking it with the Soviet Union ("Evil Empire"). USA has fair and uniform secular laws. Regarding the case of polygamy, that Muslims are allowed to practice with impunity in India, in the recent times US Govt. has aggressively prosecuted the Mormon (founded by Joseph Smith/Brigham Young) sect members for violating the US Constitution. Regarding "touching Muslims", do you know how many Muslims have been held behind bars ? Starting with Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, Ramzi Youssef, Mir Aimal Kansi, Zacarias Moussaui are in maximum security prison and may never ever see the light of the day. On the contrary, Jaswant Singh (former External Affairs Minister) personally hands over Maulana Masood Azhar to Pakistan in order to avoid bloodshed. Further in USA, this fellow Sami Al-Arian an associate professor of Computer Engineering at University of Florida, Gainsville, was in prison and now being extradited to Lebanon/Palestine for allegedly raising funds for Hamas through Holy Land Foundation. (I am not citing other cases of prosecution against Muslims in USA, since it might set your claims into a tailspin.)

My whole point is that since majority of Hindus vote for a government in India, it is not at all unreasonable to expect that Govt. should cater to the majority (Hindu) wishes in accordance with the Indian Constitution. Flagrant disregard for majority aspirations by Muslims happen in India. The Indian govt. (and hence by default Hindus) are impotent to rise up against such abuses. It may happen sometime when moon turns into green cheese, but at least not at the present time.

"...By your ignorant analysis, India should be an Islamic state by now. In case you didn't know."

Maybe you and your friends don't know that Muslims ruled India (Akhand Bharat) and whipped Hindus left and right. Read any history book again, and get your facts straight. To escape the oppression from Muslim rule most Hindus welcomed British rule. Surrendering or enslavement happens to be a recurring phenomenon for the Hindu way of political expression, right ?

That India never became an Islamic state is not hard to fathom. Muslim rulers on a periodic basis did enforce the jiziya poll tax for Hindus. This was to generate more money for the tyrant Muslim rulers. If India became Muslim majority, then that would result in loss of tax revenues. Also, parts of India appeared quite inaccessible to Muslims - such as South India. (Of course, Aurangzeb crossed Deccan.) In addition, the Muslims were also fighting (some) Rajputs, only to have them eventually defeated, and the external invasions. (Babur and Ibrahim Lodhi's wars in Panipat and the likes.) Also, most of the tyrant Muslim rulers were absorbed in the richness and sensual pleasures that the royal life afforded them. They were more prone to enjoyment rather than in the business of warfighting. These are primary reasons, in my hypothesis, why India never became a Muslim country eventually.
Had most of them (tyrant Muslim rulers) been like Mahmood of Ghaznavi, Muhammad bin Qasim, Muhammad Ghauri, Ikthar-ud-din Muhammad-bin-Bakhtiar Khilji, the fate of Hindus would have been quite different.

"...You analysis is irrelevant and imprudent, you attack Hindus and you attack me as being some sort of a timid race with no knowledge and as something that deserves to be wiped out. Therefore yes I consider you to be an ignorant racist."

I think you need some medical help. I have never attacked anyone personally on JW. Either you need to grow up or are a plain rabble-rousing liar. You can certainly feel offended. That's fine. In USA, where I live, we have something like the 1st Amendment (Freedom of Speech). This allows anyone to say things that you might find offensive but can not be a direct personal attack. You maybe too naive to understand or appreciate these goodies. I did attack and I still am contemptuous of the Hindu cowardice that in my opinion is a cause for the Islamic onslaught in India. My views are easy to validate from the authorship on Indian history from historians like Will Durant, Arnold Toynbee, Eliot and Dowson, and R. C. Majumdar or for that matter Robert Spencer (director of JW). I live in USA, and have selectively read sections of the books by these authors. So, yes, I may have a offensive bias, but who doesn't ? In your case you apparently have not shown any shred of knowledge to substantiate your gorilla patriotism for Hindus. Chestbeating is fine, but it can also make you look appear a gorilla rather than a human being. Of such expression of misplaced jingoism is your bias and I am OK with that.

"Suggestion for you dude-take the shaheda --you will feel right at home"

:-). I have rejected the shahada, as I exactly know how barbaric Islam is. Muslims like Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Irshad Manji, Salman Rushdie, etc. have been my inspiration. I do not believe in the monochromatic unity of Allah, and I reject that Muhammad was His Messenger. You and others like you, on the contrary, believe that Hindus are great without being critical of their primary, collective shortcomings. This is symptomatic of the problems with Hindus in India, and explains why Muslims are causing mayhem (like 7/11) and almost always getting away with it. This mentality generates likes of Mullah (Mulayam) Singh Yadav who maybe ruling you there and prefering the SIMI over Hindus.

Good luck to you !