It looks like a major raid -- four hours, agents with guns. And of course the ACLU is watching, caring again less about the prospect of another jihad attack than about the treatment of potential or suspected jihadists. Note also the obligatory "They are nice people" quote. From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, with thanks to the Strategic Outlook Institute, where there are many cogent obervations about the raid:
FBI agents yesterday raided a North Side residence known to many in the neighborhood and the Pittsburgh Islamic community as both an Islamic school and mosque.The agency would say only that the search was in connection with a "criminal investigation" and wouldn't elaborate.
The raid began around noon when authorities shut down the intersection of Boyle and Hemlock streets, residents said. The activity centered around a three-story green house located in the 1300 block of Boyle Street. It is home to the Sankore Institute and Light of Age Mosque, which doubles as a school for people seeking to learn the Koran and Islamic religious teachings....
Authorities did not say if anyone was taken into custody, but residents said several men in tunics and traditional Muslim garb were led out of the house, patted down and searched along Boyle Street. The agents may have executed the raid during Friday prayers known as the Jummah prayer, neighbors said.
The group moved into the neighborhood around February and posted fliers that said "we are here to help you make the North Side a better place to live, worship, work and play." The group urged people "to join us in clothing and feeding the poor, cleaning up our community and making the North Side a safer, more beautiful place for our children."
Neighbors who witnessed the raid said FBI agents surrounded the home for more than four hours yesterday. They said there was a tactical squad at the scene backing up agents.
"It's scary to see guys with guns slung over their shoulders right in front of you," said Harold King, of Avalon, who was visiting a relative.
Muslim community members familiar with the group said the institute is not a part of the seven mosques under the auspices of the Islamic Council of Greater Pittsburgh. Most members of the mosque are African-American, neighbors said.
The home has two entrances, one facing Boyle Street and a side door on Hemlock Street. The Hemlock Street entrance is used by women and the Boyle Street entrance by men, neighbors said. Some orthodox Muslims do not mix genders, unless women are related or married to the men in their company.
"They are some of the nicest people in the neighborhood," said Anthony Carboni, who lives nearby on Sandusky Street. Mr. Carboni said he would often see people at the home playing football outside or hosting cookouts in the neighborhood.
A jitney driver, Andre Hammer, of the North Side, who was driving by the intersection, said he passed by the residence several weeks ago and saw police cars parked outside. Mr. Hammer said he would often see men outside of the home talking.
Gigi Lincoln of Boyle Street said she watched the men being lined up against several houses. Mrs. Lincoln said the agents searched each of the men extensively and then had police dogs walk past them. She said agents also used a robot to enter the home.
She said they loaded some of the men into the back of a white van, but said they did not appear to be handcuffed.
Witold Walczak, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania, said "any time law enforcement officials raid a house of worship it raises concerns," but said it would be premature to comment further.
"They are some of the nicest people in the neighborhood," said Anthony Carboni, who lives nearby on Sandusky Street. Mr. Carboni said he would often see people at the home playing football outside or hosting cookouts in the neighborhood."
Mr. Carboni, just give 5 minutes to this link. Maybe you will have reason to change your mind.
http://india.indymedia.org/en/2003/03/3571.shtml
"It's scary to see guys with guns slung over their shoulders right in front of you," said Harold King, of Avalon, who was visiting a relative."
.. .. Harold King didn't find 9/11 scary.. or just forgot there wa a 9/11?
"They are some of the nicest people in the neighborhood," said Anthony Carboni, who lives nearby on Sandusky Street. Mr. Carboni said he would often see people at the home playing football outside or hosting cookouts in the neighborhood."
Mr. Carboni, just give 5 minutes to this link. Maybe you will have reason to change your mind.
Posted by: arjun.sevak "
I don't get it! Why are you angry cos somebody who knows those guy said they're nice! you speak like you have met any Moslem! I bet you have not.
Your haterd is blinding you man! and It's going to get you high blood pressure; maybe other things! So take it easy.
You should understand there is a difference between those who are in warfare and those aren't; just like the difference between Americans in the army and others. (I like open-minded Americans by the way and have many friends; They like me too!)
Chau
khalid,
Follow my link. And not only do I know muslims, I speak persian, urdu, and a little arabic.
A cult that worships terror and hatred should be closely monitored, what's wrong with that? Islam is a criminal organization, worse, much worse than the mafia... so let the police do their job, and lets not worry about how 'nice' they are, Khalid!
I suspect - if- your 'open-minded american friends' knew what you believe, and that infidels are 'najis' and that you are not to take 'unbelievers for friends' (have you told them?) they would not be so open minded any more, Khalid....
Here we have some "Nice people" for you, Khalid:
http://www.muslimsout.org/
Beware JW readers: I am getting the feeling that JW has been targetted for coordinated taqiyya. The amount of extremely similar ("don't be racist/don't be nationalist/don't be hateful/don't be stupid/don't be blind/the Muslims I know are nice") messages under the guise of a dozen different nicks in just a handful of days can not go unnoticed. I have been reading here for years and I have never seen so many posts protective of jihad, Muslims and Islam in so short a time period.
The timing is also highly suspicious. Palestinians murdering and kidnapping and claiming use of chemical weapons. The beheadings and shooting of 4 Russian diplomats just last week. The death of Zarqawi not long before that. The desperate bombings that have continued in Iraq. And so much more. And yet we have a cadre coming here telling us that we should just be quiet and act like good little dhimmis.
I'd like to thank all the jihadis that are proving my suspicions correct. Please continue your propaganda attempts.
John Wayne Gacy seemed like such a nice clown; I'm sure all Muslims are harmless just because some might smile at us.
khalid,
Follow my link. And not only do I know muslims, I speak persian, urdu, and a little arabic.
Posted by: arjun.sevak"
Well, I followed the link and read the article, not all of it of course. I don't know how to describe it but I can say it's non-sense!
I'll quote one paragraph:
"Islamic imperialism came with a different code - the Sunnah of the Prophet. It required its warriors to fall upon the helpless civil population after a decisive victory had been won on the battlefield. It required them to sack and burn down villages and towns after the defenders had died fighting or had fled. The cows, the Brahmins, and the Bhikshus invited their special attention in mass murders of non-combatants. The temples and monasteries were their special targets in an orgy of pillage and arson. Those whom they did not kill, they captured and sold as slaves. The magnitude of the booty looted even from the bodies of the dead, was a measure of the success of a military mission. And they did all this as mujãhids (holy warriors) and ghãzîs (kãfir-killers) in the service of Allah and his Last Prophet."
This is not accurate. I can speak for Islam (since it's my religion and studied it extenssively) Islam is exactly the opposite of what is stated in the article: it forbids burning villiage and twons, killing animals, capturing women, childern or unarmed people including me, targeting worship places etc... All these instructions are found in the Koran and Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, sayings. You can go back and check.
So, I urge you to refer to more authentic and reliable referneces!
Chau
(I like open-minded Americans by the way and have many friends; They like me too!)....
posted by khalid
.
Yeah! Until you turn on them like a rabid dog.
Not all mental patients are a danger to themselves and others, either.
However, there is always the potential for violence given their disturbed thought processes.
Who knows what a paranoid schizophrenic will decide to do?
So it is with those who believe in Islam.
The sane people owe it to themselves to remove the insane from their midst.
Foehammer, I believe you are correct about the taqyyia blitz.
This is not accurate. I can speak for Islam (since it's my religion and studied it extenssively) Islam is exactly the opposite of what is stated in the article:
You can NOT speak for an entire religion. Are you Muhammad reborn? He's the one that dictated the Qur'an to his followers.
Practially every infidel here has studied your religion. Many of us hold university degrees of one kind or another. I'd say all readers here are above average intelligence. Therefore, do not presume to tell us what Islam is about. We have decided and will decide for ourselves.
My own conclusion?: Islam is the Enemy.
Khalid,
"So, I urge you to refer to more authentic and reliable referneces!"
This is why I do a lot of research about Islam online via the internet. The internet has excellent sources of information.
Foehammer,
"Beware JW readers: I am getting the feeling that JW has been targetted for coordinated taqiyya. The amount of extremely similar ("don't be racist/don't be nationalist/don't be hateful/don't be stupid/don't be blind/the Muslims I know are nice") messages under the guise of a dozen different nicks in just a handful of days can not go unnoticed. I have been reading here for years and I have never seen so many posts protective of jihad, Muslims and Islam in so short a time period.
The timing is also highly suspicious. Palestinians murdering and kidnapping and claiming use of chemical weapons. The beheadings and shooting of 4 Russian diplomats just last week. The death of Zarqawi not long before that. The desperate bombings that have continued in Iraq. And so much more. And yet we have a cadre coming here telling us that we should just be quiet and act like good little dhimmis. "
Foehammer, and for all non-Muslims who post here, just simply present the facts on Islam to any Muslims who are doing taqiyya and do so with a smile and it will throw them off.
Obviously there was enough evidence produced that after carefull review allowed for the issuance of a warrant which would have come through the 10 FISA Court ( Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court) Judges if there was suspicion of a foreign connection that may have been produced from NSA results as well as other sources.
I have done my share of background study and part of the above group. FYI - I am sharing that information with all those within earshot and those read at my blog.
Call me gullible no more -- taqiyya and kitman no longer affect me!
Note about the article: I bet I'm not alone when I state that I'm more concerned about the immediate protectiveness exhibited by people selectively interviewed for that report -- protectiveness of the "nice" Muslims. Protectiveness of a "house of worship."
So, if I set up shop in a nice neighborhood and I welcome every Satan worshipper I can find to come and sacrifice animals on the stairs, that's going to be alright with people? What if I decided to start a cult based on H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos? That'd be worthy of protection? Hmmm...so what these people in the article are saying is that every "house of worship" is equal, no matter what they concept, no matter what the ideology being taught, no matter what the pretense as long as the followers go out into the yard and play football?
That is pretty frightening. Do you think the Soviet spies were smart enough to learn English with a perfect accent, to dress like Americans, marry Americans, go to church with Americans, befriend Americans? Do you think that changed the ir mission statement?
Do you think Muslim jihadis are dumb?
Do you think Muslim jihad want to be arrested?
Do you really think that Muslims are not trying to do what the Qur'an dictates: Islam shall dominate the world?
Muslims tell us every single day that they want to indoctrinate us, that they want to plant a Sharia state in every nation in the world, that they hope to see Israel erradicated and the United States turned into an Islamic state.
But still we have reporters selectively interviewing people on the street. "But they are such nice Muslims. They played football with my kids."
Just once wouldn't it be nice to hear the other people interviewed, the ones that don't have nice things to say?
Khalid lies and denies, just like prophet MO: "Terror made me victorious," said he, and "strike terror in the hearts of the infidels..."
"....not accurate. I can speak for Islam (since it's my religion and studied it extenssively) Islam is exactly the opposite of what is stated in the article: it forbids burning villiage and twons, killing animals, capturing women, childern or unarmed people including me, targeting worship places etc... All these instructions are found in the Koran and Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, sayings.
You can go back and check.
So, I urge you to refer to more authentic and reliable referneces!
I went back and checked, Khalid.
You are a liar and full of deceit, Khalid! 1 read 164 Jihad verses and when I finished reading, the blood was dripping from my Koran... Mohammed raped and pilfered, he razed villages and towns, killing animals, capturing women and doing "Atzl"- remember Khalid, "Atzl?"
Chow Chow Khalid!
Quite. It was the comment of an idiot.
Anyone who even glances at the news every day, Foehammer, as the talk-radio host points out in the MP3 on your site, can be in no doubt as to what Islam is about. The matter doesn't even require one to study the texts or the history - although, if one does, one finds, which is hardly surprising, what is consonant with that sad tale of barbarism.
The comment of an idiot, not even really believed in by the fool who made it, such transparent nonsense as hardly to be worth even trying here (where almost everyone is informed enough to know better), and so far the opposite of the truth as hardly to warrant even being noticed and commented on. And more to the point, an absurd distraction from the purpose of the site and of this thread.
Here is something pertinent to the thread gleaned from the original post that may be worth a comment or two.
Why? What is so special about "a house of worship"? Are there different rules for those who believe in "religions" and those who don't? Does the US Constitution say so? Because this is the first I ever heard of it. Should the FBI not act to protect the public safety when it has reason to believe that it should? Or should it only act providing a "house of worship" is not involved.
Tells one a lot about the ACLU, doesn't it?
"You can NOT speak for an entire religion. Are you Muhammad reborn? He's the one that dictated the Qur'an to his followers.
Practially every infidel here has studied your religion. Many of us hold university degrees of one kind or another. I'd say all readers here are above average intelligence. Therefore, do not presume to tell us what Islam is about. We have decided and will decide for ourselves.
My own conclusion?: Islam is the Enemy.
Posted by: Foehammer "
Oh man!
I don't think any of you here have read the Koran or the meaning of it; neither have you read the Prophet's sayings! Correct me if otherwise. All you read is books written by Western or Israeli writers who so obviously hate Islam. All what they say is with no context. THEY ARE USING YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE BACKGROUND OF THE SUBJECT! WAKE UP!
I can speak for Islam cos I know what is it, I live it everyday, I breath it. And I am 100% sure it's a religion of peace and tolerance. People in the Arab and Moselm world don't breed to raise up Jihadists but to raise up people just like you and me. I have never carry a gun in my life and I don't tend to cos I don't need it. I have my pen which you cant tolerate!
Stop the hating and try to read the whole story behind ISlam. Some Moselms may not project the reality of the religion just like some Christians (take Hitler for instance).
For the one who claimed that the presence of moselms have increased the last few days. I think you are mistaken and you are too weak to reply and meaningful, to the point replies. And I have not noticed any body standing for Islam since my coming here (two days ago). That means I am the only one here that you are refering to. To make things clear for you: I am an ordinary individual; I dont connect with any groups or any things like that. I am just an open-minded moselm!
For those who claim that my Amrecian friends would reject my views; you are wrong! They are open-minded which means they try to understand the whole sides of the story unlike many people here who have decided to whome the should side and stop there. PEOPLE CHANGE AND SO OUR OPINIONS AND PREFERNCE ONCE SOMETHING NEW COMES UP TO ALTER THAT!
Chau
Khalid states:
"So, I urge you to refer to more authentic and reliable referneces!"
That's why we're here. There are no more reliable references (qur'an, hadith, sira) than those supplied here by Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald.
So, Khalid, are you also going to deny the Holocaust ever happened, that it was a Zionist conspiracy? The history books are replete with detailed accounts of how Islam was spread by the edge of the sword (Just look what they did to Constantinople. Why did they write these words on an arch at the entrance to a cemetery there: "Forunate is the commander and his soldiers who take Constantine's city"?)
"Stop the hating and try to read the whole story behind ISlam. Some Moselms may not project the reality of the religion just like some Christians (take Hitler for instance)."
Um, see, here we go again -- the difference is that Hitler was not waging a holy war!!! His attempt to dominate Europe supported by his perceived grievances against Imperial (French/British) powers and Jewish merchants that had brought poverty and starvation to Germany after WW I. (And in point of fact, he was not completely wrong in his conclusions, since history has proven that indeed the punishments againt Germany after the Great War were overzealous, and provedonce again that anger does not thrive in a vaccuum -- but that is no excuse for genocide, fascism and open aggression against neighoring states.)
I have read the Qur'an. I own a copy. Thank you very much.
I feel like burning it again right now, but that feeling comes and goes like the sun rises. I'll keep it to show to others and continue removing this veil of secrecy from the Cult of Hate.
Khalid wrote: "For the one who claimed that the presence of moselms have increased the last few days. I think you are mistaken and you are too weak to reply and meaningful, to the point replies."
LOL!!!!!!
Me? You couldn't possibly be aiming that remark at me. "To the point" should be tattoo'd on my chest.
And I don't open my mouth or type a word if there isn't fact supporting what I state.
Your Jedi mind tricks won't work here, little jihadi.
Khalid said: "don't think any of you here have read the Koran or the meaning of it; neither have you read the Prophet's sayings! Correct me if otherwise. All you read is books written by Western or Israeli writers who so obviously hate Islam."
Well, Khalid, of course we have read the Koran. If we had just listened to our leaders telling us that Islam was a "noble religion" and a "religion of peace", we wouldn't be here.
Khalid:
this is of course one of many surahs along with the A bukharis hadiths that give call to jihad against non muslims.
Would you please take a moment and comment on these particular surahs.
Thank You.
Sura 9:29-31 (fight against Jews and Christians until they are subdued, because God's curse is on them)
"Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. and the Christians call Christ the Son of God ... God's curse be on them; how they are deluded away from the truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary. Yet they are commanded to worship but One God .
You beat me to it Caratacus!
Prove us wrong Khalid! Why don't you put the 164 jihad verses in 'context' so we can understand it?
We are waiting for you to enlighten us, Khalid!
don't tell me we have to 'speak Arabic' to understand how to deceive and kill and rape and terrorize in order to be 'good muslims'...Khalid, where are you?
Khalid! Khaaaaalid....!...??? anybody there.....?
Khalid, what is your opinion about Moslem who convert to any other religion? Why there is no Moslem (even from the so called moderate Moslem) that defend the right of the Moslem man who convert to Christian when the Afghanistan government want to execute him, just because He convert to Christian!!!
Or is it because Islam permit to kill the Moslem who convert to another religion?
Don't fool yourself Khalid. Don't sell your "nice" open minded word in here. I don't trust open minded Moslem, since Moslem prophet is not an open minded also.
Kill the one who critic Islam is just the words that Mohammed your evil prophet understand.
Khalid, you know that muslims are supposed to "make nice" while they are few in number. When you have superior numbers, then things change. Jizya is required and all the accompanying dhimmi subservience begins. You know it's true....we know it's true.
Folks, it is not suprising that we have another internet jihadi troll visiting again. As I have warned not too long ago, with summer being here and the jr. high, high schools, and colleges being out for the summer, the younger internet jihadi trolls are going to be coming here simply because they got a lot of time on their hands. Be ready with the facts.
OT: can anyone tell me how to hide urls as text on this site? I use
[url=http://...]insert text here[/url]
but it doesn't work.
Foehammer
A lot of the drivel that comes out of the mouths of neighbors in situations like that isn't just ignorance or simple-mindedness; it's PC, it's the fear of being seen as xenophobic or intolerant or "racist" or backward, a troglodyte, a neanderthal.
PC has altered the natural instinct of suspicion of strangers-- especially strangers with very different habits like Muslims--suspicion which is inherent in any cohesive group and in any person.
Multicultist dogma aims at the destruction of natural bonds and ties and defense mechanisms.
Go to any traditional village or small town, and people will measure you up, keep you at a distance for a while until they've figured you out. They won't give you the map of the power grid and the key to the power station.
That means I am the only one here that you are refering to--khalid.
Yes, we know that already. You are one and the same troll--khalid, salahudin, Abu America, lionheart, and a whole bunch of others I forget.
You're not fooling anyone with your apologetic drivel or your multiple changing identities.
We know a troll when we see one, and we know an evil ideology when we see one.
ovidius_naso: Agreed.
Here Khalid, you naughty old troll:
The "Religion of Peace and tolerance"... Please put it in context for us, would you?
Unbelievers
2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them
2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression
2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you
3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah
4:48 “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.”
4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.
4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers
5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
8:15-16, O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!
8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah’s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself
8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers
9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.
9:3, And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,
9:23, O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.
9:28, O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.
Archimedes,
Im not sure this is what you want but try dropping the http://.
www.jihadwatch.org/archives/012048.php.
khalid,
You want accurate and reliable sources ? How about from the horse's mouth itself.
"According to Tãrîkh-i-Yamînî of Utbi, Mahmud’s secretary, “The blood of the infidels flowed so copiously [at Thanesar] that the stream was discoloured, notwithstanding its purity, and people were unable to drink it. The Sultãn returned with plunder which is impossible to count. Praise he to Allah for the honour he bestows on Islãm and Muslims.”
In 1013 AD Mahmud advanced against Nandana where the Shahiya king, Anandapal, had established his new capital. The Hindus fought very hard but lost. Again, the temples were destroyed, and innocent citizens slaughtered. Utbi provides an account of the plunder and the prisoners of war: “The Sultãn returned in the rear of immense booty, and slaves were so plentiful that they became very cheap and men of respectability in their native land were degraded by becoming slaves of common shopkeepers. But this is the goodness of Allah, who bestows honour on his own religion and degrades infidelity.”
Shrawa, the next important place to be invaded, met the same fate. Utbi concludes: “The Muslims paid no regard to the booty till they had satiated themselves with the slaughter of the infidels and worshippers of sun and fire. The friends of Allah searched the bodies of the slain for three days in order to obtain booty… The booty amounted in gold and silver, rubies and pearls nearly to three hundred thousand dirhams, and the number of prisoners may be conceived from the fact that each was sold for two to ten dirhams. These were afterwards taken to Ghazni and merchants came from distant cities to purchase them, so that the countries of Mawaraun-Nahr, Iraq and Khurasan were filled with them, and the fair and the dark, the rich and the poor, were commingled in one common slavery.”
I have taken only three accounts from my link above. There are many more. And it was all written by a muslim, and the original text was kept in the middle east.
"They are some of the nicest people in the neighborhood," said Anthony Carboni, who lives nearby on Sandusky Street.
+++++++++++++++++++
Always great neighbors until they start blowing up bombs, shooting or stabbing you, just ask the shia and the sunni in iraq.
Nice has nothing to do with the ability to commit murder or other atrocities. the 19 that flew jets into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon and a field where all nice guys until they killed 3,000 innocent Americans.
Archimedes:
Yes, I can, Archimedes.
What you were trying is BB code, which isn't set up here. However, you can enter a URL using standard HTML tags.
Here is the syntax:
<a href="URL goes here">link title here</a>
For example:
<a href="http://nytimes.com/">New York Times</a>
I have "escaped" the greater-than and less-than signs that I have used there. If you simply type them in. The link text will appear with the URL associated to it.
"It's scary to see guys with guns slung over their shoulders right in front of you," said Harold King, of Avalon, who was visiting a relative.
Mr Harold King must realize that in absence of his freedom to carry his own gun slung over his shoulder, these guys are his best friends. I would not be scared, I would feel secure.
A special note to those of you who keep talking about the "open minded" among us. Don't you people understand that having an open mind means that one does not make a conclusion until the issue has been studied in depth. After studying the problem (Mohammedanism) in depth I am satisfied that Standard Islam is a threat to all people on this planet. Mohsmmedanism must be delt with in the same manner that we deal with Neo-Nazism, Communism, and Crime.
O.T.
I was just trawling through Google Video to see if there was anything interesting there.
Can you believe it? Well, of course, you can.
Islamic ruling on beards for Muslim men
The video is nearly four minutes long and begins, "Growing your beard is an obligation ..."
I stopped watching at that point. Even if Muslims were not conducting jihad right across the globe, committing terrorist atrocities, oppressing women, keeping slaves - even in the US - and all the rest of the abominations, Islam would merit obloquy and derision for its sheer idiocy.
Many Islamic countries are economic basket-cases. Corruption is rife. Impartial and just law is almost completely absent. Pakistan, for example, having squandered its legal inheritance from the British, is retreating into barbarism, and all the while its economy is little more than a mere remittance economy. Iran has widespread unemployment, drug abuse, and child prostitution; it is also a world hub for people trafficking.
And Muslims think that how one wears one's facial hair is a matter of importance - and something for which "rulings" are appropriate. The disconnect from reality is grimly comical.
Yojimbo,
Thanks! It works.
"A jitney driver, Andre Hammer, of the North Side [in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania], who was driving by the intersection..."
-- from the original news story.
Ah, the Third-Worldization of America!
Foehammer,
"here we go again -- the difference is that Hitler was not waging a holy war!!!"
I think your counter-argument is the wrong tack to take with such charges as Khalid made.
1) For one thing, many analysts (Eric Voegelin among them) have argued convincingly that Hitler and his Nazism were crypto-religious (an Ersatzreligion, or "false religion", as Voegelin termed it) drawing on both heretical forms of Christianity and Gnosticism as well as on pagan mythology that was religious in nature with all the trappings of a religion -- public rituals, iconography, worship, an eschatological goal, etc.
2) Secondly, the more screamingly obvious and overpowering retort to charges such as Khalid made is that, whatever were Hitler's motives and however we characterize his Nazi ideology (whether as "religious" or secular nationalistic as you counter-argued or whatever), is this: Yes, Hitler was a home-grown pathological maniac who grew out of our West, but guess what: the West eventually got its collective shit together to condemn Hitler and to definitively destroy him and his followers -- and thereby to make the ideology that inspired them virtually nullified, with any significant reappearances that have popped up later efficiently stamped out.
I.e., the appropriate response to the Khalidian charge is that: Yes, Hitler was a Western monster -- but the West dealt with its own monster. We took care of our problem. Why aren't Muslims dealing with and destroying their own monsters? Why aren't they taking care of the problems growing out of their culture?
Khalid thinks we don't know about his "Muslim Brothers" and their agenda:
http://www.robert-fisk.com/usama_interview_john_millerabc.htm
Take your Taquiyya to fools like Dubya and Condi. Thank you.
Khalid, I actually feel sorry for you. To have the misfortune to have been inculcated with hate and lies. This is part of the anger too, isn't it? Sit down on the couch, Khalid. Tell me about your Jihadi Shahdi mother. Was your family poor? Did daddie beat you? Was your plight bamed on the IIIIsraaaeelis? I hate it when that happens.
Khalid, your act is patently false. We see you. Americans are getting smart about Allah--peace be upon the dude--and his religeon of slaughtering Kaffir's(sorry I meant peace).
We see the Muslim youths -- 19 gave it for the Saudi big man on 911. We see similar Canadian youths, brittish youths, French youths, Somali youths, "pali" youths all with a common illness. What could that be? Wait, I forget: Muslims are been oppressed and the if the Ummah ain't happy, ain't no Muslim happy.
Khalid, our inhouse Jihadi Shahidi, tell me this: how do you feel about a bunch of sons of pigs and monkeys kicking some ass in Gaza? They are not acting the good dhimmi are they not? How does that make you feel about the Zionist entity kicking the Arab muscle in '48, 56, 67, 78 and every incursion in between? All you Jihadis can muster is to lure a mentally retarded(literally)to strap on the explosive belt). It takes real guts for Hamas to talk somebody elses kid to detonate! LOL. Guts.
So, how does it feel to be on the losing end of the stick to Israel? Wait it is because the little Satan is supported by the US, The Great Satan. The 3 billion dollar in aid to Israel? That's it; without this aid, the superior forces of the Saudi "Prophet" would surely triumph! Not so fast: Allah may be in the house, but what about 67--this was before the big aid began, and in '48 the Jews were just a bunch of shrivled Jews, taking on the Arab street with no help. There was little aid to the nascent Israelis. But they still kicked the Arabs asses--that is, Khalid, when the Arabs were not running away. Ah, Khalid, the joys of history.
I liked that one about the lack of violence in India. How about Turkey? Did the killings in the name of the 'sunny prophet' not results in over a million Armenians dead. Many slaughtered in the traditional Islamic way, heads stacked up next to brave Turkish soldiers. Muslim, indeed is a class act.
Khalid,
Take notice if you will that "infidels" of every stripe rise up to counter your misinterpretation of Islam. We are wise to the truth of your faith and we wholeheartedly reject Islam for very rational reasons.
Aside from Islam being a mythological construct of a megalomaniac, Islam is a violent ideology that deserves intellectual scrutiny. Allah IS to be questioned and your "prophet" to be critisized.
JW veterans here have excellent bullshit sniffers, probably the very best in the world. Your Da'wa will now only give us more intellectual target practice. Thank you- come again.
Beware JW readers: I am getting the feeling that JW has been targetted for coordinated taqiyya.
Posted by: Foehammer at July 1, 2006 10:22 AM
.. and the 'Kafirs' are (update the list as appropriate):
- Naseem.
- Khalid.
Yojimbo, re your comment:
"Many Islamic countries are economic basket-cases. Corruption is rife. Impartial and just law is almost completely absent. Pakistan, for example, having squandered its legal inheritance from the British, is retreating into barbarism, and all the while its economy is little more than a mere remittance economy. Iran has widespread unemployment, drug abuse, and child prostitution; it is also a world hub for people trafficking."
Yeah, and would you believe the Iranians and our good friend Hugo Chavez are at this African conference "declaring solidarity with impoverished Africans" and blaming Africa's problems on the West. They even had the gall to bring up the slave trade! I certainly hope Africans remember that Arabs were (and remain) a huge part of human trafficking.
No one should find the raid of the Sankore Mosque 'frightening-' unless you are either a jihadist or a jihad sympathizer. Non-Muslims should find this sight quite reassuring, I think!! I certainly do. The governmnent, it appears, is getting off its duff and doing its job (finally!!!!!). One less bunch of demented folks out to "slay the unbelievers everywhere..." maybe?
Now that we have gotten that out of the way we can move on.
Where Islam exists so too does jihadism against the non-believers--and bloodshed. It is 100 % impossible to get around this fact anywhere. The Sankore Mosque and Islamic Institute could very easily have been an active terrorism accessory and/or jihad breeding ground--the same could apply to any mosque on earth.
If this particular mosque wasn't an actual breeeding ground for jihadism and jihadists with all the potential violence that entails, it is very highly likely that this mosque was actively funneling substantial amounts of capital to terrorist networks (any number of them) around the globe. Again, most mosques around the globe are apt to be involved in financial strategies for jihadists and their mujahidin armies, as it's what they do. And they do it well.
In light of the fact that the Bush Adminstration has recently hardened its stance against global financing of Islamic terror networks no one should be mystified by this raid.
We can only hope more of these raids quickly follow and succeed in eliminating the jihadists and the tentacles their mosques have wrapped around our once-fair land!
Off topic, but...
"Muhammad appears on the family tree of every person in the Western world"
Ummah News Links
It's entirely possible that Khalid is just one of those mythical moderate Muslims, who are pretty much interchangeable with multiculturalists. They're both equally deluded, ignorant and in denial.
khalid: Islam is no religion. It is a totalitarian, political ideology built on violence, superstition, and total enslavement of human beings. The Kuran is Islam's political constitution. You will notice that al-lah never appeared to a human being--NEVER. Which proves al-lah does NOT exist. If he did, he'd have visited humanity here on the earth IN PERSON AT LEAST ONCE and not left the job to an alleged messenger-angel (who in fact belongs to Yahweh, a different being and wouldn't know anything about Islam's 'god' al-lah). At east the Judeo-Christian deity Yahweh appeared to humans and these accounts are recorded in the Bible.
Islam in fact is a perfect example of what humanity does NOT need. It is an ideology that aims to destroy each individual person and replaces them with a zombified, brainwashed shell of a human being that is no longer capable of acting, speaking, or thinking as an individual and thus can make no contributions to his society (it takes an individual to do this). Thus all Islamic societies stagnate under the dead weight of this monolithic, dehumanizing political ideology. Countries like Malaysia and Saudi Arabia borrow from other cultures they actively and privately despise because Muslim people in countries like this are blocked by their 'religion' from doing most of the things people in non-Muslim lands take for granted.
By the way, virtually no educated Americans are going to accept the Kuranic doctrines that teach that the world is flat, the sun is attached to a chain and drops into a lake, that there are talking rocks and talking trees, that semen is produced in the pelvic bone and other such winners. Nor are most educated Americans ever going to accept Islam's institutionalization of first-degree murder against non-Muslims, its totalitarian political structure that permits people that are basically little more than warlords to unofficially crown themselves al-lah over their 'religious' subjects, or approve of its spectacular cruelty and paranoid fantasies about Jews and Christians.
Americans may listen to you and other Muslims for a time, but then they are going to show you something---THE DOOR!!!!
A message from DefenseLink concerning hirabah vs. jihadi.
It's entirely possible that Khalid is just one of those mythical moderate Muslims, who are pretty much interchangeable with multiculturalists. They're both equally deluded, ignorant and in denial.
Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop
Yes, I agree with you.
khalid, no one is listening. In a free society, we too can read the infinite souces,( you only have one) fully understand, given plenty of evidence of the "peace" in your so called religion touts, and decide on what is right and wrong.
What you have been studying is wrong. Blindly repeating the same old source, doesn't cut it any more. We are awake, with more waking up, thanks to JW. Of course, thanks to the likes of you also for proving us correct.
Television wrote:
1) For one thing, many analysts (Eric Voegelin among them) have argued convincingly that Hitler and his Nazism were crypto-religious (an Ersatzreligion, or "false religion", as Voegelin termed it) drawing on both heretical forms of Christianity and Gnosticism as well as on pagan mythology that was religious in nature with all the trappings of a religion -- public rituals, iconography, worship, an eschatological goal, etc.
--
The Nazis couldn't have been an evil religion, Television. If they were, the Liberal Left and the United Nations would be endorsing them, protecting them and funding their "charities". The French would be sipping wine with them, and the Russians, and Chinese would all secretly funding and supporting them them.
Wow, did I just decribe a theocratic Nazidom or Islam or both? ;)
PS My keyboard seems to be missing keys today or something. Or maybe my brain is just saturated with too much Islamic "goodness".
That DefenseLink concerning hirabah vs. jihadi is a VERY dangerous and short-sighted proposal. I think the men behind that idea are looking for a quick promotion based on some very flimsy assumptions of their own. I'd fire them.
I'm going to repeat myself from another article. Apologist loons like Khalid need to know this: what is actually in the Noble Quran is meaningless. The meaning of the Quran is whatever one and a quarter billion Mohammedans believe it is. This is true of Islam, Christianity, politics, and whatever else humans delve into. The remaining few million Muslims do not have a snowball's chance in Baghdad of reforming or saving Islam.
Is Mr Kkalid a reformist or an apologist, an apologist who is trying to sucker punch the ignorant into believing that Islam is not what one billion three hundred and fifty million Mohammedans believe it is? Being a reformist means sticking you neck out, only to have a jihadist create a void between your head and torso thus establishing an end to the reform movement.
"Beware JW readers: I am getting the feeling that JW has been targetted for coordinated taqiyya."
I don't think so. I agree with others who see Khalid, Sam, lionheart, Abu America etc etc as one and the same person who keeps changing his moniker. Which got me wondering - WHY is it that he keeps changing his moniker? That's a kind of strange thing to do. I think he does it because he never really answers any of the facts thrown at him. He avoids that challenge by changing his identity so that he can't be called out . It's a typical (Muslim) run and hide technique. Also, he creates the false appearance of a collective, a little army of Muslim posters, whom we should presumably take more seriously because of their sheer numbers. Which is a common Muslim tactic. They inflate their numbers because they think it makes them more powerful and that because of these supposedly high numbers, we will be forced to take their demands more seriously. In reflecting on this question of why one troll keeps changing his identity , we actually see a little microcosm of how the Muslim mind works in general. First there’s the taqiyya (or downright denial and ignorance of what the religion teaches, which I think is entirely possible with this troll), then there's the run and hide when called out (in this case behind an alternate identity), also there's the resort to the comfort of the collective, and there's the attempt to appear more powerful by creating a false impression as to the number of people we are facing.
I'm not convinced. I think that Khalid, Arian and Lionheart are separate persons, though each of them might be logging in under various nicks.
"The Nazis couldn't have been an evil religion, Television. If they were, the Liberal Left and the United Nations would be endorsing them"
The Liberal Left (or "Leftist Liberals" as I like to call them) and the UN wouldn't endorse Nazis because they were Western and white -- two sins for the price of one. (The only thing that might arouse an attraction among the Leftist Liberals and UN for the Nazis would be their anti-Semitism.)
Khalid wrote in response to Arjun Sevak
"I don't think any of you here have read the Koran or the meaning of it; neither have you read the Prophet's sayings! Correct me if otherwise. ...."
I did not have the patience to scroll down the postings and see if anyone has quoted from the hate-manual (Quran). Either Khalid suffers from some of the traumatic symptoms of compulsive denial disorder or he is deluded into thinking that misleading (i.e. lying) the non-Muslims on this form would help. Unfortunately, the Quran doesn't save the likes of Khalid. I'll quote three verses and they are as follows (from the translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali):
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subduedQuran [009:029]
Also:
Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost. Quran [047:004]
And regarding Jihad there is quote from Sahih Bukhari.
[4:52:65] Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause."
The conclusion of this a-hadith is that Jihad (physical warfare) is obligatory for Muslims for spread of Islam (Allah's message via His earthly transponder: Muhammad). Therefore:
Hence, the Creator obligates us to fight wherever people are being grossly deprived of freely hearing or practicing the Message of Allah as contained in the Qur'an and Sunnah.
Thus if anyone opposes the spread of Islam must be fought. This type of warfare is considered "holy war" (Jihad). Also, to that end the Quran states very clearly:
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Quran [005:033]
And Islam is a peaceful religion ?
Regarding the rebuttals, I believe that Americans must call up their respective Senators/Congressmen to vote for an Immigration reform bill that would:
prevent Muslim immigration to USA
Unfortunately, liberals (like Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton) would vote against such measures, and with the Superme Court punishing Bush for holding terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, such effective measures would not likely pass. But isn't it worth a try ?
Apropos "political religions", The Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler smashed crucifixes as it advanced through France in 1940. However, indubitably atheistical movements have done similar things - for example, Communists in Spain during the Civil war and in Tibet during the 49-50 invasion. The National Socialist hostility towards Christianity (a semi-secret hostility, because the general populace in Germany would have been disturbed by anything too open) is extremely interesting. The desecration was, I'd suggest, mostly about expressing rejection of Christian values.
I think what makes National Socialism a "political religion" is not so much a quasi-religious content that was in any case uncertain, not central to the ideology (which is expressible in purely secular terms), and not shared by all. What makes it a "political religion" is that it seems to attempt to appropriate the emotions more usually directed towards religious objects. And most tellingly, it is that it gives a salvific value to politics. Politics becomes not the business of governance, the balancing of interests and what not, but a means to salvation. Marxism-Lenninism is no different here. Perhaps religion need not be concerned with notions of salvation, but in our civilization it is: the so-called "political religions", such as National Socialism and Marxism-Lenninism, make salvation a political and very much this-worldly matter and their adherents appear to believe that the basic conditions of life in this world (what Voegelin called "the structure of reality") can be overcome by the act of The Party's seizing power. This is magical thinking. (Any reader of V. S. Naipaul's will be aware of similar attitudes among his Muslim interlocutors.)
I'm about halfway through Ibn Warraq's very interesting book Why I am not a Muslim and I wouldn't have missed it for anything. To me, however, it is coming a little too much from the H. G. Wells/Winwood Reade direction and has perhaps too much emphasis on whether religious belief per se is reasonable. But that's personal taste, I suppose. However, I do think that the content of any religion is of more immediate concern to outsiders than the fact that it may classed as a religion. Similarly, it doesn't really matter whether people are completely secularized or not if they incorporate a salvific value into their politics.
July 2nd will be one month after the arrests of the Toronto-17 terror cell that planned a massive slaughter of civilians with their attempt to secure 3 tonnes ( 6600 lbs) of Amonium Nitrate explosive to be mixed with heating oil as to be just as destructive as the Murrah Building attack.
BUT, I am still waiting for just one Muslim to denouce these 17 children of Allah as Muslims .
So far the leaders blame the Mosques,the Mosques blame the parents,and they all blame Canada for creating these Jihadists by all the oppression and Islamophobia around the World.
The common denominator for the 17 intolerant bigots and Jew-bashers is the Quran and Muhammad , the latest farce from Toronto Muslims is the bogus Human Rights Commission report of rampant "Islamophobia" in Ontario?Toronto/Canada.
While Muslims make up only about 1% of the population for Citizens of Canada, the Ontario HRC report shows close to 60% of complaints are based on Islamophobia .
To further insult the taxpayers with the costs to the upfront funding for whiners , the success rate for Cases making it to a Court Ruling in favour of the whiner is only 5%-8% on average depending on the Base-year sellected for compiling the Stats.
Basically the 5 real victims per-100 Rights violations complainers must standing in line with 95 "Career victims" that once again had their Feelings hurt and used the Suit to hopefully force a Out-of-Court early settlement
to avoid Legal expenses for the accused .
CAIR has just posted this report but fail to print the entire story that admits there is no solid evidence compiled at this point but the "Islamophobia" theme dominates the perceptions by workers in the HRC field.
Muslims use this tactic of fabricating a civil tort by loading up complaints that bog-down the system , then , the sheer number of complaints
unsettled are presented as factual negative bias and become a unquestioned Website press update by CAIR that lets the reader infer Islamophobia if at crisis proportions.
I just don't buy their tripe anymore, CAIR/CAIR-Can never denounce the actual Muslim doing the killings or defaming Islam which always Offends them because a few extremists hijacked the peaceful religion.
Check out this video from a Toronto Mosque , it's the "Seminar" item at the top of the list and if you have a hi-speed connection just advance the player-slide to the Hijab wearing females and listen to them promote dieng for Allah to spread Islam and praise Jihad and death as the way to please Allah.
The tail end of the video is in Arabic and the Cleric goes on a tirade with shouting and all the usual animations when cursing the Infidels or "The-Jews".
http://www.cig.ca/arpresentsearch.php
The denial by Muslims and Politicians almost got us killed and the post-arrest denials are even scarier.
Khalid, you know that muslims are supposed to "make nice" while they are few in number. When you have superior numbers, then things change.
Here, in a microcosm, represented in this photo, is what muslims do once they become the majority. This is in London. Five muslims gang-attack one Englishmen.
gang attack
Arjun, I too know a little Arabic: taqiyyah, kitman, dar al-harb, urktul islam. Lalalalalalala.
And I follow the 11th commandment:
"Know Thy Enemy".
FYI, for those who don't know it, he ACLU is dominated by Jews, and as of late, Muslims., the same is true of Human Rights Watch.
Strange Bedfellows eh what? Fact is that the vast majority of liberal leftists that represent and advocated for Islamists are in fact Jews... go figure.
Or do they take their lead from David Kimche, chief of Israeli Council on Foreign Policy and former deputy of MOSSAD, who told an Islamic subconference of the OSCE conference on antisemitism, "Is some is antisemitic they are also Islamophobic".
Something about Islam-
Funny how that video reminds of a nature show I saw once about jackels....
Back Again!!
I've just logged on to see your replies. You seem to be in a hurry to read me reply! Well guys, I'm human, you know; there is time for eating, working, sleeping and praying(most of you don't do the later but i do).
Well to answer those who qouted some versus from the Holy Koran, I can't give a full answer here cos i'd have to write pages and pages. However, I'd say most, if not all, the verses that have been qouted have a certain, particular context. They have a story behind them when they were revealed. So, most of them are talking about events happened during the life of the Prophet, peace be upon him, regarding his fights or wars with his enemies (that was during the midevil time in the West when Western used to cut each others heads and the church dominated everything). So, to get the picture you have to refer to one of Tafseer books (the books that explain the Holy Koran).
The other thing you should know about these verses is that when they speak about fighting the enemy, or the unbeleivers, it's meant during wars or when the moslem lands are under attack. Of course, not all the verses refer to this meaning, but many do.
For those who gave some nick names like Abu America! I am not any of them. I have just subscribed to this website and I found it accidently.
Oh, too much to be said here cos you like to judge people and accuse them of being many things; just like that.
Something I have realized is that you're just tooooooooooo blind by your hatred. You're not even willing to question your baised beleives! IF you going to keep doing that, I think there is no point of discussing things here!
So Chau!
I've just logged on to see your replies. You seem to be in a hurry to read me reply! Well guys, I'm human, you know; there is time for eating, working, sleeping and praying(most of you don't do the later but i do).
Posted by: khalid at July 1, 2006 08:42 PM
++++++++
khalid, many of us pray to God and you will have the opportunityto experience the power of our prayers as is foretold in the Old and New Testaments.
The war with the culot of islam is inevitable for the cult of islam does want peace but world domination.
Prepare, be armed be ready.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense.
Freed
Chow troll, chow!!
Can't we find ONE intelligent Mohammedan?
One who at least tries a bit harder than the a-sole above....?
I'm looking so hard for a Mohammedan with a brain that I'm thinking about putting a price on his head.....
"You're not even willing to question your baised beleives!"
Lol!
Us = kettle
You = pot
"... it's meant during wars or when the moslem lands are under attack."
You mean like the Crusades? When Christians tried to take back land stolen by the mohammedans? The Reconquista? Oh yeah, when mohammedans take other people's land, it's because allah sez so. When people try to take it back, it's stealing. Of course, since all land currently occupied by mohammedans was someone elses once, and keeping it is okay by allah, everyone's land is up for grabs. Maybe if you spent less time with your nose in books of triumphalist mumbo-jumbo and the documented imperialism and butchery of a narcissistic sociopath, you might have the time to read some real history books. Perhaps one or two on logic while you're at it.
You're too much K. You should take your show on the road.
Really.
Multiculturalists and their ilk can no longer say anything that I haven't already heard. Khalid's latest predictable argument:
Khalid believes, of course, that he alone is the keeper of 100% objective and correct information, that he has looked at both sides of the issue, and that he has reached an unbiased and balanced conclusion. I used to be more or less a multiculturalist, but then I changed my mind. So, you could say that I actually have looked at the issue from both sides of the fene... the multiculturalists I've debated have, as far as I can tell, never actually questioned their beliefs, yet they demand that I become "unbiased" and understand that I'm just wrong.
"Biased" is certainly a popular word these days. If you disagree with a multiculturalist, you are biased. There's just no way around it. Multiculturalists are the keepers of 100% objective knowledge (I've often asked where they get this knowledge from, but not once has anyone told me), and they are totally unbiased. Information that contradicts multiculturalism is biased. Jihad Watch is biased because it contradicts multiculturalism, even if the bulk of its content is taken from the news.
Khalid's quote above also contains the obligatory accusation that we're just so full of hatred that we can't possibly understand how wrong we are (Muslims may want to eradicate or subjugate the rest of the universe, but that's not hatred). Every reason anyone has to criticise, dislike or hate Islam is reduced to the simple act of irrational hatred. No, 9/11 or the cartoon riots didn't make anyone suspicious, they just woke up one morning with a burning hatred towards all things Islam. That's how it simple it is, according to multiculturalist dogma.
Khalid,
You state: "However, I'd say most, if not all, the verses that have been qouted have a certain, particular context."
The context of the Koranic verses is provided by Hadith and Sira. The context provided by these verses makes the "good" and "bad" verses in the Koran all much, much worse. This is why socially-progressive reformist Muslims try to get around the context problem by rejecting most or even all of the Hadith and Sira. Alas, removing the context doesn't help much. See 33:57-62 for just one example of why removing context doesn't help the Qur'an-only Muslims. Also, there is no context in which 'convert to Islam or die' (9:5) or 'fight them until all religion is for Allah alone' (8:39) are morally acceptable policies. Even if the enemies were the aggressors in those cases (they weren't; Muslims were the aggressors in both contexts, 9:5--conquering of Mecca, 8:39--about the Battle of Badr which was initiated by Muslims as a raid on a caravan, where the role of the Quraysh army was to defend the caravan from highway robbers like Mohammad), there is no justification for forcing them to convert or fighting them until they convert to Islam (or else are wiped out by Muslims).
You state:
"So, to get the picture you have to refer to one of Tafseer books (the books that explain the Holy Koran)."
I refer to multiple tafsir (al-Jalalayn, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Abbas, and others). Tafsir is guess-work. It is educated guess-work, but guess-work nonetheless. Tell me, do you reject Ibn Kathir's tafsir of nasty verses such as 9:33, 48:28, 4:34, etc.?
What was it that you were saying about hate?
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 183:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet used to recite the following invocations during Qunut: "O Allah! Save Salama bin Hisham. O Allah! Save Al-Walid bin Al-Walid. O Allah! Save 'Aiyash bin Rabi'a O Allah ! Save the weak Muslims. O Allah! Be very hard on Mudar tribe. O Allah! Afflict them with years (of famine) similar to the (famine) years of the time of Prophet Joseph."
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 20:
Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will taste the sweetness of faith:
1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle become dearer than anything else.
2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.
3. Who hates to revert to disbelief (Atheism) after Allah has brought (saved) him out from it, as he hates to be thrown in fire."
Can you say "Infidelophobia"?
The Koran says that disbelievers (non-Muslims): are “worst of created beings” (98:6), are “miscreants” (2:99, 24:55), are the worst beasts in Allah’s sight (8:22, 8:55); (some Christians and/or Jews were) turned into “apes and/or pigs” (2:65-66, 5:58-60, 7:166); are like frightened donkeys chased by a lion (74:50-51), are like cattle—nay, worse than cattle (7:179, 25:44), are like dogs (7:176); they (idolators) are unclean (9:28); “evil” is upon them (16:27), evil (2:91, 2:99); “wicked” (80:42, 9:125); the “wrong-doers” (42:45, 2:254, 5:45); evil-doers (42:44); evil-livers (5:59); they have no good in them (8:23); are “guilty”/criminals/sinners for disbelieving (45:31, 83:29); on the side of Satan and are fighting for him (4:76-77); of the party of Satan (58:19); Allah assigns them devils for protecting friends (7:27); they choose devils for protecting friends (7:30); are partisan against Allah (25:55); “enemy” and “perverted” (63:4); disgraced lives (22:9); hypocrites (4:61); have a “diseased heart” (2:10, 9:125); are ill (84:20); deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171); deaf and dumb and in darkness, Allah sends them astray (6:39); have no sense (5:103, 10:100); a folk who do not understand (9:127); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111); losers who are deceived by Allah (2:6), and deceived by Satan (4:60); Allah sends devils against them to make them do evil (19:83); Allah cursed them for their unbelief (2:88-89), liars/they lie (2:10, 4:50, 9:42, 16:39, 16:105, 59:11) “losers” (5:53, 7:178-179); foolish and liars (7:66), liars and losers (58:18-19), in false pride and schism (38:2), among the lowest (58:20); the lowest of the low (95:4-6)
In reading those insults, keep the following points in mind:
-these insults apply to disbelievers because they are disbelievers (disbelief is the worst crime)
-the insults are assumed to be the words of Allah and are therefore true of disbelievers for all time, until the Last Day
-the disbelievers cannot do anything to improve Allah’s perception of them (He does not accept the good works of the disbelievers), except to believe in and obey Allah.
-the insulting adjectives refer to the inherent character traits of disbelievers
As posters above have pointed out, our opinions about Islam are informed by the Islamic texts (especially Koran), Islamic history, and present-day mayhem and deception. Do you lack knowledge of your own religion, or are you one of the deceivers?
"it forbids burning villiage and twons, killing animals, capturing women, childern or unarmed people including me, targeting worship places etc... All these instructions are found in the Koran and Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, sayings. You can go back and check."
Every claim you made in the immediately-above quote is either false or a half-truth and is refuted by the Islamic texts themselves. See this , this and this
"So, I urge you to refer to more authentic and reliable referneces!"
See above. Take thine own prescription.
"The other thing you should know about these verses is that when they speak about fighting the enemy, or the unbeleivers, it's meant during wars or when the moslem lands are under attack.' - khalid
There were muslim lands? When? Where? If your information is obsolete, then why isn't your quaran updated so the followers stop the rampage, and get a life?
"I'm not convinced. I think that Khalid, Arian and Lionheart are separate persons, though each of them might be logging in under various nicks.
Posted by: Foehammer [TypeKey Profile Page] at July 1, 2006 03:43 PM"
Khalid bin Waleed = Sam (common use of the word “sole” for “soul”).
Sam = salahudin (common use of the word “americanist”).
Salahudin=lion heart (by his own admission and also a direct comparison of the preponderance of small letters in the posts shows them to be the same)
So lionheart=Khalid bin Waleed=Sam=salahudin
As to Abu America, his post came right after Khalid bin Waleed's post on 6/29 (at 12:09 (KBW) followed by AA's post at 3:50).
The style is different which suggests to me that they could be friends and posting from the same computer.
On this thread, it appears to me that khalid's syntax is beginning to break down into the style typical of salahudin and lion heart - meaning lots of small letters and use of "i" for "I".
"Well guys, I'm human, you know; there is time for eating, working, sleeping and praying(most of you don't do the later but i do)."
Also, khalid is starting to resort to all caps in places, as Salahudin was wont to do (probably when he had a few too many beers after watching soccer).
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/012048.php#c237565
As to William- Wallace Ellerslie, he came on pretending to be a British University professor with an important announcement to make about his research, and his syntax eventually degenerated into this:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/011970.php#c235155
"This news to me (without being arrogance like rest of my people)"
and this:
"I mean come on, where are the brain cells in these American people. ....America give it a rest and let us Europeans live. 9/11 was your mess and 7/7 happened before of our countries being bullied into supporting your interests in the Middle East. We don’t want middle east and neither do we want them to look upon us in the same manor as they do upon you."
I have no comment about Arian at this point because I don't really recall his posts but I think it' pretty likely that lionheart=KWM=Sam=Saludin=Abu America=khalid=Willaim Wallace Ellersbie.
It also seems likely that this character is pretty young (certainly comes across as extremely immature, especially as Abu America) and that he may have one or more friends sitting with him at his computer alternately typing, which could account for some minor syntactical variations between them. (e.g. khalid frequently uses the word "cos" which the others do not. That sort of minor thing would be hard to fake).
Nevertheless, all these characters showed up at once, or over several days consecutively. They all show a remarkably similar immaturity and common syntactical style, they all make similar tu quoque arguments that remain at a very superficial level, and they have no real reply to the posters here.
As I stated previously I am normally inclined to take posters at face value unless there is evidence to do otherwise and in this case, I think there is. But I don't think it seems consistent with some "brilliant" mastermind. Rather, to me it seems more consistent with one fairly young guy (maybe around 20 years old) and maybe one or 2 friends taking turns on the keyboard periodically. That's my take on it in any case. I'm entirely open to new evidence re the matter, however.
I think what makes National Socialism a "political religion" is ... that it gives a salvific value to politics.
That's not just a peripheral quality: soteriology is the very heart of the major religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam. And you're right: National Socialism had a soteriology too. An immanentized one.
This is not accurate. I can speak for Islam (since it's my religion and studied it extenssively) Islam is exactly the opposite of what is stated in the article: it forbids burning villiage and twons, killing animals, capturing women, childern or unarmed people including me, targeting worship places etc... All these instructions are found in the Koran and Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, sayings. You can go back and check. "
You're just a robitc, brainless liar. If not why would you even bother to come to a site such as this with your bullshite.
Duty, Honor, Country
(in THAT order)
Rowane
I see, when confronted by Islam's own quotes, Khalil Gib-berish beats a hasty retreat, using the common Taqqiya Suprise evasions of "you are blinded" by "bias" and "hatred" as his Parthian shots.
Didn't he forget "racism", "bigotry" and "what about the Red Indians killed by smallpox blankets"? All standard handy ways to confuse the naive kaffirs whipped out from the How to Play the Standard Islamo-pologies Game, 101.
Haven't any Muslims ever read the Koran? Much less the Hadiths?
They can start here.
Nice boomerang work, all, tossing his limp missiles back at him.
Oops!
Meant "...limp missives...".
But, to paraphrase Robert Frost, "...missiles..." is as nice, and will suffice.
Fire And Ice
Khalid says,
'For those who gave some nick names like Abu America! I am not any of them. I have just subscribed to this website and I found it accidently.' ... Googling Jihad?
Hey Khalid
You are selling but none of us are buying, we are wise to the evil of islam.
I am sure that all of the true JW followers/participants have seen this sort of “khalid” work before, and will certainly see it again. Some people will lie, right to the face of those that have been witness to the truth. When confronted with the truth, and the knowledge that the target audience is actually aware of the truth, they not only continue to lie, but they in fact argue more fervently.
Perhaps this is a mental disorder. Perhaps it is a learned trait. Perhaps it is desperation in their attempts to subvert the truth. Perhaps it is deception intent on conquering the good. Or, perhaps it is because stupid people can actually be convinced of a lie being the truth, when they are simply open to hearing the lies repeatedly. Logic even fails to demonstrate the truth to these people.
I am not blinded by hatred (I am not blinded by anything). Nor do I believe that other true JW f/p are. True JW f/p are from the political left, the political right, the religious crowd, the anti-religious crowd, and they collect at JW to learn of the current state of Islam’s attacks on civilization. The use of such red herring by some posters is simply the sign of a troll.
Perhaps “khalid” is the same troll as “sam” or someone else posting here. We could attempt to figure out why they would post in multiple nicknames as well, but that point is unimportant at this time, I think. I actually find trolls unimportant enough that I would never post a reply to their posts (although, obviously, I will post to a thread that the trolls have infiltrated).
Regardless of the cause, or the reason, it appears that the true JW f/p have the ability to not be distracted with such B.S. as many others might be. This will be our greatest strength in our fight for survival against the onslaught of stupidity called “Islam”. In this battle, it was to conduct a raid against a mosque in a residence - nothing more.
- recalled
Something very interesting about the first comment has escaped attention. The good article about Islamic agression is posted on an indymedia site. Indymedia is a leftist group that for the most part is pro-terrorist and dhimmified to the extreme. I would guess that only the Indian affliate would actaully say something remotely ressembling the truth about Islam, and even then I wonder why they don't face some pressure to remove it.
Perhaps “khalid” is the same troll as “sam” or someone else posting here. We could attempt to figure out why they would post in multiple nicknames as well
I believe it is to appear that a lot more muslims are in opposition to our viewpoint. I am not surprised at the multiple nics, I know the majority oppose us.
/tiny minority...heh heh
Pediomelum,
The article is just a piece of accurate history. I was not aware of Indymedia being leftist. That they have posted accurate history surprises me.