The BBC headline on this AP photo is "It was an historic day for women in Kuwait"
From our Grasping At Straws Department comes this BBC story, "Reformist gains in Kuwaiti vote" (thanks to JE). What is a "reformist" who is also an "Islamist"? Someone who wants to end corruption by instituting the fullness of Sharia? And we are supposed to applaud that? And as for this historic day for women, it doesn't look from the photo as if Kuwaiti women are all that liberated.
Kuwaiti reformists campaigning on an anti-corruption platform, some of them Islamists, have made strong gains in parliamentary elections.But women, who were voting and standing for the first time, have failed to win any seats.
State media reported a high turnout in the election, in which women made up 57% of the electorate.
A push for reform in the new parliament may help women candidates at the next election, the BBC's Julia Wheeler says.
There were 28 female candidates, out of a total of 252 candidates, standing for 50-seat parliament.
Two of the women candidates topped 1,000 votes but were beaten by their male rivals, AFP news agency reports.
The opposition reformists - many of whom are Islamists - gained four seats, taking their total number of seats in parliament to 33....
By electing reformist candidates, the voters have sent a clear message to the government that they want change in Kuwaiti society, our correspondent says....
Yes. More's the pity.
In the land of the blind the one with glasses has no advantage but everyone still wants a pair,
if only to boast about it.
The New Duranty Times had even funnier pictures. One is unsettling, ten together -- horrifying.
The pseudo-election raises real points.
One is tha corruption, by the Al-Saud, or Al-Sabah or Al-Thani or Al-Maktoum, or in Mubarak's "republic" that unlike these kingdoms, princedoms, sheikdoms by the sea doesn't have a ruling dynasty (we can ask Gemal Mubarak all about this in a few years), must be opposed for being "un-Islamic" and not merely because it is "corruption." Everything must be put in, must be understood in, Islamic terms. And so it is that the "reformers" will naturally have an Islamic cast (i.e., take the belief-system more seriously than some others), and that is a problem.
The second is the emphasis on women's rights. It means nothing for Infidels. Women can be given rights to be "Dr. Anthrax" or "Dr. Germs" as two women, allowed to receive their education in England, turned out to be for Saddam Hussein. Women's freedoms may only add to the number of active, as opposed to merely breeding-and-ululating, participants in Jihad. It is not something to be delighted with. It has no necessary connection with constraining or dampening the scope, and menace, of Jihad.
No one should expect Muslim women to go from abaya/burqa/chador to bra-burning in a few short years, but this is a start.
What concerns me is the Islamist Reformists. I know those guys are there because they think Kuwait isn't Muslim enough, probably because they're letting women vote. The really scary part is that they're winning.
Reform does not have to be according to what you are used to in the West and according to your culture over there. You have to understand that every country around the world has its own way of thinking and seeing things. You can't just impose your own culture on them; this is part of the imperialism the US is trying to inforce.
The other thing, I don't understand why you can't get that women in the Arab and ISlamic world prefere wearing Hijab or Abayah. They want to do that. I think democracy (the one you are calling for) grants that for them. Look at Kuiwat, for instance, women can choose whether to waer Hijab or not and most do! I know you hate it, but who cares about what you think. We do not ask women in the West to wear Hijab and stop wearing mini-skirts cos it's not our buisiness!
So try to conform to the democracy you're braging about!
For the reform that is happening in the ISlamic world, i hope it gets better by stiking to the Islamic teaching and to the local culture of each and every country.
Chau!
Perhaps the number of female concentration camp guards gaoled or executed for crimes against humanity post WW2 was a similar index of women's emancipation in Nazi germany.
However a dedicated islamist female who boasts about how many sons she has sent into jihadic purgatory is just as dangerous as the sons.
For the reform that is happening in the ISlamic world, i hope it gets better by stiking to the Islamic teaching and to the local culture of each and every country.
Chau!
Posted by: khalid at July 1, 2006 09:45 AM
Democracy survives Islam untill a cleric declares Democracy "un-Islamic"... and the whole sharade crashes. Just ask Pakistan. On the other hand, India, Pakistan's neighbor, is not only a democracy, but a stable and a respectable one. You see, in India, there is no "Islam" to destroy democracy.
"...Two of the women candidates topped 1,000 votes but were beaten by their male rivals, AFP news agency reports..."
Take this, you 'girlie men!'- That just shows that 'real men' are in demand! Real men to the front!
Khalid is a 'real man', a real 'under-stander of Islam!
He'll tell you, here he comes:
" You have to understand that every country around the world has its own way of thinking and seeing things. You can't just impose your own culture on them; this is part of the imperialism the US is trying to inforce."
"The other thing, I don't understand why you can't get that women in the Arab and ISlamic world prefere wearing Hijab or Abayah. They want to do that...
who cares about what you think. We do not ask women in the West to wear Hijab and stop wearing mini-skirts cos it's not our buisiness!"
(Liar! OBL demanded western women to stop working and to cover up!)
"For the reform that is happening in the ISlamic world, i hope it gets better by stiking to the Islamic teaching and to the local culture of each and every country..."
So far every "reform" we have seen was for more Islam, Khalid, not less...
Chau!
Chow Chow!!!
Kahlid,
"The other thing, I don't understand why you can't get that women in the Arab and ISlamic world prefere wearing Hijab or Abayah. They want to do that...
who cares about what you think. We do not ask women in the West to wear Hijab and stop wearing mini-skirts cos it's not our buisiness!"
Oh, really, then why is it that the jihadists want to extend this to women living in the west?
Also isn't the "hijab" a form of "oppression" for women in Islam? I would view it as such and this is a non-Muslim woman in the west who dresses in modest western clothes.
So, let me get this straight -- women have not managed to gain any political seats in a country where Islamist reformists are seeking power?
Golly gee willikers!
DUH!!!!!
Khalid wrote : "The other thing, I don't understand why you can't get that women in the Arab and ISlamic world prefere wearing Hijab or Abayah. They want to do that...
who cares about what you think. We do not ask women in the West to wear Hijab and stop wearing mini-skirts cos it's not our buisiness!"
--
Allow me to translate:
We do not tell women in the West to wear Hijab because Americans have guns and shoot straight. We do not tell American women to stop wearing mini-skirt cos it's not our business -- YET.
Once Muslim lobbyists succeed in passing reforms to American law that protects Islam from any criticism, then we will finally be able to show women the correct way to behave, and that is by wearing full length clothing and veiling their faces. That is by staying barefoot and pregnant and enjoying the company of their husband's 3 other wives. That is by never talking back to their husband or we will divorce them with the "I divorce thee, I divorce thee, I divorce thee!" and find other suitable replacements.
We do not tell Western women how to behave yet -- because we have not killed or reverted all their men.
I just feel pitty for you guys. I really do.
You know nothing about arabic and islamic culture at all!
For the one who lived in Saudi, I bet you have never left the compound and you did not have any Saudi friends. In fact, Western people outside Saudi would understand the Saudi culture better than the ones who live in there cos you isolate yourself and when you interact with people you do it with non-Saudis!!!!!!
So Chau!
Let's see- women in Kuwait made up 57% of the voters and they got nothing from voting.
This means:
A) They are completely brainwashed;
B) Absolutely intimidated;
C) Their votes were conveniently filed down a latrine until the desired male dominance was achieved in the tally;
D) They just love their men to pieces.
Where was Jimmy Carter to make sure all went well?
(Bill Clinton and Al Gore are too busy pocketing speaking fees in the rest of the Muslim world to be bothered. The former because no Mohammedan gals wear thongs under their burqas, and the latter because of all that nasty ME oil supposedly bringing about the mythical Global Warming Era [formerly known as "The Next Great Ice Age!".)
__________________________________________________
Khalil-
Maybe you want your women in burqas because you know what they really look like?
A bikini on a razorback?
Khalid:
The farewell/greeting you keep trampling on is correctly spelled:
"Ciao" -- not Chau, not Chow or Cow.
Ok? I guess you're so busy understanding your own Muslim-Arabic culture that you never took the time to learn any Italian.
Khalid wrote: "For the one who lived in Saudi, I bet you have never left the compound and you did not have any Saudi friends. In fact, Western people outside Saudi would understand the Saudi culture better than the ones who live in there cos you isolate yourself and when you interact with people you do it with non-Saudis!!!!!!"
--
Khalid, that's the first statement of yours that I've read that I actually agree with. But have you ever stopped to wonder why Westerners in Saudi stay to themselves?
There's this little thing, you probably don't understand it because it's alien to Islamic culture, but Westerners have this instinct -- it's call "self-preservation." All the Islamic terrorism, murders and honor killings and slavery and rape and jihad in the past 50 years, all in the name of Islam, has really had an impact on the world. Isn't that was jihadis desired? Or are they upset that we aren't lemmings that can be told to go blow ourselves up, that love our children and want to protect the sanctity of human life, and above all, that we are smart enough to keep a safe distance?
"...women in the Arab and ISlamic world prefere wearing Hijab or Abayah. They want to do that..."
Acid attacks really make them "want to do that..." for sure.
Bangladesh, Egypt, Pakistan, India has uncounted cases of acid attacks on women for not covering up, so its really just terror against women that makes them 'want to do it'- like this fool 'Khalid' proclaims. I haven't got any links but I'm sure you can find plenty on the net if you start looking for it...
Since muslim women HAVE to cover I would think it's due to the muslim men's insecurities. They don't want other muslim men to covet their property. (didnt ole mo do that with his daughter in law????)
From this point on, I shall call muslim males, males, because they certainly aren't men.
Muslim males have the "god" given right to rape. They don't take responsibility for their own actions. (it's always the woman's fault) They say if a woman isn't covered , she's asking to be raped. Oh, the muslim male pysche. So sick.
And I agree with Templar, WHO in their RIGHT mind would be wearing a tent in 100 degree or above weather if they weren't FORCED to.
freewoman,
Take into consideration the fact that women in the Muslim world are often regarded as the property of the men. This is why they cover up. Also we have in Koran 4:34 how married men are allowed to beat their wives up.
Also agreed with Templar, how can a woman in her right mind wear such oppressive clothes in hot climates.
That picture of a woman in a black Hefty bag infuriates me. The bag totally eliminates her. She is just a black ghost, no individuality, just to keep from inflaming some dumbass, horney muslim male. Oh no, hair rays!
Khalid
"Reform does not have to be according to what you are used to in the West and according to your culture over there. You have to understand that every country around the world has its own way of thinking and seeing things. You can't just impose your own culture on them; this is part of the imperialism the US is trying to inforce."
I can tell you're well-versed in multiculti, post-modern, anti-Western idiocy. It serves Islam and jihad so well, doesn't it?
Well, these burka beauties sure are not inflaming any normal males.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/5136164.stm
sheik
It's that, and more. It's a way of getting a status and a paradoxical "visibility" closer to that of men. Being more "Islamic" than the average person/more Catholic than the Pope means getting recognition. Sending their sons to blow themselves up in jihad is craving for self-worth and recognition.
In the West, taking on the hijab and such by "prefrence" gives women a kind of antagonistic identity. They make a statement: "Look at me. I'm different. I am who I am." It's a perverse way of saying: Don't pity me. I like it and I want it.
To the males of the tribe, the message is "I'm worthy of you."
The more shackled, the worthier.
Insane.
Say, the woman in the picture is showing an awful lot of wrist. Maybe she is a "reformer" after all.
"The other thing, I don't understand why you can't get that women in the Arab and ISlamic world prefere wearing Hijab or Abayah"
One of the striking things about any Muslim community is the amount of vigilanteism that takes place, particularly concerning the conduct of women. As a petty example, a female BBC reporter was doing a walkabout to camera in an old shooping district of Karachi, with her hair uncovered. A shopkeeper actually came out of his shop witha headscarf and said she could hhave it for free if she would just put it on! This was dealing with a western woman - I'd imagine such regulation of behaviour would usually take a more threatening and quite possibly violent form.
"Women's freedoms may only add to the number of active, as opposed to merely breeding-and-ululating, participants in Jihad."
Better yet: "ululating-and-pullulating"
"You know nothing about arabic and islamic culture at all!" Written (said) by his Eminence, Khalid.
Mr Khalid, I don't know much about eastern black bears either. I know just enough to know that they are dangerous. I child was killed recently by one in the Cherokee Nat'l Forest. One does not need to study Islam to the degree that a man like Robert Spencer has. All the rest of us need to do is keep aware of what is happening, read and heed. What Islam really, really preaches is menaingless when one billion Mohammedans believe what they believe. Even if the remaining 350 million Mohammedans believe in a "reformed" Islam their voice is kind of lost, and neither they noe you will prevent the eventual end of Islam.
How pitiful these women are,
free to vote but not free
to feel the wind
on their bodies,
blowing their hair,
never knowing the satisfaction
of equality with men,
suffering in their perfect religion
for the sin of simply being women.
But even worse, not knowing
that they can be more than they are.
If any person new to this issue out there actually believes for a moment that most muslim women 'want' to cover up in black sacks, just read http://muttawa.blogspot.com/. This is a site by a Saudi Arabian man who tells it like it is - living under sharia. Muttawas are the religious police that go around HITTING WOMEN WITH STICKS if they don't cover up.
Sure, the 'want' to cover up instead of being beaten.
The blogger is now not posting any more material, but many hours of interesting, appalling and also amusing information are still maintained there for you to read.
Oh, Khalid, you are soooooo wrong about that. Women, by their very nature, want to wear pretty clothes and be noticed. They don't want to wear black tents from head to toe. Your women have got fourteen centuries of institutionalized oppression hanging over their heads. Of course they're going to say they want to wear that getup. In their hearts, though, they don't.
Our culture is already imposed upon them, by their choice. Every time someone in the Islamic world eats at McDonald's or puts on a pair of jeans, they've just chosen our culture over their own. What we're now trying to impose is our system of government and our belief that religion and state should not be intertwined and that all human beings are equal in the eyes of the law and God. In other words, we're trying to drag Islam into the 21st century with the rest of us.
khalid, why don't you wear the black burka in the hot sun for just one day, and then tell us how much you enjoyed it?
Nice link Lili.
just feel pitty for you guys. I really do.
You know nothing about arabic and islamic culture at all!
For the one who lived in Saudi, I bet you have never left the compound and you did not have any Saudi friends. In fact, Western people outside Saudi would understand the Saudi culture better than the ones who live in there cos you isolate yourself and when you interact with people you do it with non-Saudis!!!!!!
So Chau!
............................................
Another moron from the backwoods of the arabian desert(cringe) pontificates mindlessly.
Does anyone wish to tell him why expats stay locked inside their compound? Because it is too dangerous, too boring and to disgusting to go outside. If you did NOT pay well OTT no westerner worth his salt would have anything to do with SA etc and your great islamic countries would grind to a halt overnight.
Why don't to train your own people to look after the infrastructure? Not possible is it? they are more intersted in destroying the cultures that feed and sustain them.
Civilising Muslims and casting pearls before swine have much in common with each other and it isn' the monkey who is responsible.
The whole Kuwaiti election was probably a sham.
First, there are no country in the world with women making 57 per cent of adult (voters) population and men making 43 per cent - it is close to 51/49. Unless there was a terrible war recently, where one eight of male population perished.
Second, UPI http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20060630-052745-9523r
gave a different number of eligible voters (430,000) than BBC in its article (340,000). Strange how such small numbers can be miscalculated...
Third, no matter which number is correct, the final results are strange. UPI (along with Reuters) reported that total election turnout was 65 per cent but only 35 per cent of women voted.
Let's do some simple math. There are (BBC) 193,800 women eligible voters and 146,200 men. The total number of voting persons was 221,000 (65 per cent of 340,000 ) of which 67,800 were women (35 per cent of 193,800 ). This means that the number of men voting was 153,200. Well, that makes rof 104.8 per cent male election turnout. Even the Soviet Union never tried to get more than 100 per cent of its population voting.
Seems like those Kuwaiti women did not get much of a chance.
kalid
"You know nothing about arabic and islamic culture at all!"
what we know for sure is that arabic/islamic culture is an oxymoron
Two of the women candidates topped 1,000 votes but were beaten by their male rivals, AFP news agency reports.
WELL, at least they were not stoned.