In "Focus: Undercover on planet Beeston," the Sunday Times sends reporter Ali Hussain to Beeston, where three of the 7/7 bombers came from. There, "he found an enclosed community, rife with conspiracy theories." Tiny Minority of Extremists Update:
Take, for example, Anhar Ghani, a community worker at the Hamara centre on Tempest Road that was frequented by Mohammad Sidique Khan, the leader of the bombers. Ghani became my first “friend” during six weeks of living in Beeston as an undercover Sunday Times reporter pretending to be a student, and at first he displayed a generosity of spirit hard to fault.Like me, he is in his twenties and of Bangladeshi origin, and we warmed to each other immediately. We chatted in English and Bengali about his family — he is married with one child — and how to get a job and draw up a CV. Though Ghani normally dealt only with teenagers, he went out of his way to help. In his trendy jeans and trainers, he seemed like just another hopeful in modern multicultural Britain — and I, a stranger in town, found him comforting.
But his kindness to me was coupled with a darker outlook on the wider world. I was shocked when one day at the Hamara centre he began explaining how the London bombers could be seen as martyrs.
“The western mind and the Muslim mind are two different psychologies,” he said. “The Muslim mind will see that this life means nothing unless I sacrifice myself for Allah.”
Inside I flinched, but outwardly I nodded with a look of sympathy. I did not want him to close up as much of the community had done after last summer’s attacks. I wanted him to speak honestly.
“My life means nothing, you know,” he continued. “I would give up this evil, two-seconds of a life.” Earthly experience, I think he meant, was but a moment compared with paradise to come.
Later he went on to eulogise Abdullah Faisal, a firebrand Islamic cleric who was imprisoned in 2003 for inciting the murder of Jews. Faisal, said to have been a strong influence on the 7/7 bombers, has advocated the spreading of Islam “by the Kalashnikov” and declared that one aim of jihad is to “lessen the population of unbelievers”.
To Ghani, the cleric was “one of the good ones” and he advised me where I might obtain recordings of his sermons.
Hussain, a non-devout Muslim, wonders how this could be:
As I looked at Ghani, a young man with much to live for, my shock turned to anger. How could he, so similar in many ways to myself, view the world through such different, bellicose eyes? How could he have become trapped in vicious dogma?Though I would hardly be described as devout, I see myself as Muslim — and have been increasingly mindful of it since 9/11. Yet I feel nothing like Ghani’s disillusion and anger at the West. Where had our roads parted? What makes places such as Beeston breeding grounds of hate?
My parents brought me to Britain when I was two and settled not in a city, but in an Oxfordshire village. My father opened the only Indian restaurant there and I grew up in a rather English environment, though my parents were strict Muslims....
He visits a mosque run by the Tablighi Jamaat, a group devoted to "peaceful" da'wa, or Islamic proselytization:
It was Eid ul-Adha, the festival celebrating the time God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. Muslim custom is to dress in new clothes and visit friends and family at Eid, and I had bought myself a new pair of shoes and a top.At the Bengali mosque in Beeston that morning the congregation was overflowing.
I felt odd being away from home during Eid, but people tend to be generous at this time and one man, whom I knew as Jabbar, invited me to his house after prayers.
Jabbar, clean shaven and in his thirties, ran a DIY shop on the Dewsbury Road. On the face of it Jabbar, who lived nearby with his young family, was one of those responsible, hard-working people who weave communities together. He insisted I stay for tea, and then rice and curry.
As I brought up 9/11, I was taken aback when he began to talk about a “western conspiracy against Muslims”. I had been in London on the day of the 2001 attacks and like everyone else had watched in amazement and horror as the twin towers fell. I had never doubted that Osama Bin Laden had inspired the atrocity and that Islamic terrorists had perpetrated it.
Jabbar doubted it. He told me the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy and that he had a DVD which proved it. So were the London bombings, he said.
I found myself in a ferment of mixed emotions. Here was a man who had shown great courtesy and kindness, yet believed the West was so corrupt it had staged terrorist attacks against itself. How could he be so deluded? Jabbar, however, was far from alone. One of the sternest advocates of conspiracy theory was Imran Bham, a shopkeeper running Idoo PC, a computer equipment shop.
“You don’t get anywhere with the dirty kuffar (infidels),” he told me, claiming there was a widespread conspiracy against Muslims and that the 7/7 bombings were part of it. “These brothers never did it,” he said. “And understand this. In order for America and Britain to go to Iraq they have to have reasons and sometimes, I’m afraid, if you haven’t got a reason, you make up that reason.”
He showed me pictures of the bomb blasts from the BBC on his computer, claiming ID documents must have been placed at the scene by officials because the blasts would have destroyed them.
He offered me £5 to go and buy a piece of beef, telling me to place the meat in the oven alongside my credit card, passport and other ID and then turn the temperature up. After half an hour at medium temperature, he said, the documents would melt but the beef would only be sweating. I could then draw my own conclusions.
Once again, I felt as if I had entered a strange bubble, a world where the reality I had known before had been suspended. Bham then asked me if I would ever blow myself up for Islam. I replied that the Koran says you should not harm innocent people.
“What Koran was that?” he countered. “Don’t fool yourself by saying jihad is a struggle within, to get on with life, to motivate myself to get up for prayers and that sort of thing,” he said. “That’s not jihad. Who told you that?”
AFTER six weeks I left Beeston quietly, slipping away to Leeds and back to London by train. As I travelled out of the Victorian streets towards Leeds city centre, I felt the claustrophobia lifting. It was relief to rejoin a wider, more diverse world.
I felt, too, guilt at having moved among the people of Beeston under a false guise. They had welcomed me; but they had also revealed an important facet of Muslim life in Britain today. While I was there an imam of the Bengali mosque, Hamid Ali, had praised the bombers, saying their actions would make non-Muslims “prick up their ears” and listen. I had learnt such sentiments are, one way or another, widespread in Beeston. Ghani, Bham, Jabbar and many others believe in some form of conspiracy against Muslims.
"Hamid Ali, had praised the bombers, saying their actions would make non-Muslims “prick up their ears” and listen."
If only it were true. But perhaps a louder bomb will wake them from their slumber.
Islam is the Enemy and the War may have Started.The next few days will tell.
Now that is one very courageous man, Muslim or not. But I do hope that by his courage he has not signed his own death warrant.
It shows well that while Jihadism is endemic to islam it is still not totally a plague.
But just how long until the brave are eliminated or reigned in by the pious Devourers of souls?
Here we have an insider's perspective of what is really going on in a cross-section of a Muslim community. It re-iterates the fact that Muslim leaders are failing to bring their communities into the pluralistic 21 century and rather place the blame on others as they play vistim to x,y,z.
As we know this is not an isolated UK incident - the story is repeatable worldwide. Yet British politicians refuse to take the bull by the horns because it will loose them votes or thay could be accused of .....
My Brother an ex-policeman in Leeds,who policed this area, used to say about the Muslims that they lied so much during the day they couldn't lie straight in bed at Night.
Here we have an insider's perspective of what is really going on in a cross-section of a Muslim community. It re-iterates the fact that Muslim leaders are failing to bring their communities into the pluralistic 21 century and rather place the blame on others as they play vistim to x,y,z.
As we know this is not an isolated UK incident - the story is repeatable worldwide. Yet British politicians refuse to take the bull by the horns becuae it will loose them votes or thay could be accused of .....
'...He told me the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy and that he had a DVD which proved it. So were the London bombings, he said.'
Ah.. If only we had had the humble DVD in ancient times, what conspiracies would we have uncovered?
Perhaps the men of the Banu Quraya striking their own necks in a cynical attempt to blacken the name of the beloved Prophet or the peaceful, thriving and technologically advanced culture that was Islam thrown into chaos after a Jewish spy stole the blueprints and sold them to the Great Satan in a protection racket.
Where are Mossad when you need them? I must be careful what I say here as we are being watched by the FBI and all the posters here are just one individual. Would the real Robert Spencer make himself known.
...I know I've seen the DVD!
The Muslim communities foster these views, such as described in this report, by either agreeing with them or tolerating them.
The fact that these communities are socially "enclosed" means there will be less opportunity for dissenting viewpoints to be expressed. The anti-infidel propaganda is nurtured without being challenged. Islam itself prescribes precisely such social isolation; a wall between the believers and the disbelievers.
It is known in social psychology that when like-minded individuals in an isolated group are together, the attitudes of the individuals become more extreme (e.g., in regard to political issues). At the very least, the views tend to go unchallenged and are maintained.
I believe that multiculturalism and political correctness further aggravate this problem by encouraging tribal divisiveness while at the same time discouraging criticism of any non-western ideologies. When that non-western ideology happens to be Islam, and is combined with anti-western hostility (which would result naturally from Islam anyway), the results ought to be predictable.
Could somebody help me with this eid thing ? I know of two major muslim festivals, eid-ul-fitr and eid-ul-azaha or eid-ul-zaha also called as bakr-eid (bakra = goat). The former is when muslims make macaroni and eat it, the latter is when they saw off the heads of animals and give 5% to poor and eat the rest themselves. I have read too much about it by muslim propaganda regarding these two festivals to be confused about the spelling. The eid mentioned in the article is, presumably, eid-ul-zaha. I would appreciate it if somebody clears my doubts.
Another thing, muslims over here take out articles in newspaper every year that eid-ul-zaha is celebrated because allah asked mohammad to behead his son as sacrifice and mohammad did so. Only, when he had beheaded, he discovered that his son was intact and he had beheaded a sheep instead. That is why they saw off all those animals. But in the article above, it is mentined that Abraham was asked to do this. Can somebody help with this also please ?
The morbid delights of being in a Secret Society, especially an Apocalyptic, Nihilistic one are a common, bloody strain and stain throughout human history.
Islamic Imperialism's jihadist moles and sleeper cells are far more dangerous than the Russian/Continental/Red Brigade anarchists of the last two centuries. They have an eternal 'God' to prop up their mayhem and keep them from wandering too far from the radiating source of the cosmic carnage (The Koran) for long.
Marx-Engels-Lenin-Mao could die.
Allah, being non-existent, cannot.
It is like trying to fight the Undead.
Only destroying their 'crypt' (The Koran) will prevent them from continuing.
Exposing its absolutist intolerance, gleeful morbidity and vengeful murderousness will give the freedom-loving world a chance against the seductive, juvenile, all-answering, anal-sadistic thrill of this upside-down Manichean dogma posing as an "Abrahamic faith. (Demon est deus inversus - The Devil is God stood on his head.)
As philsophers were recently advised, we must say to all:
To the texts!
Read the Koran.
Plunge into the madness of the Hadiths.
Know thy goddamned enemy!
"What Koran is that?"
The author of the article, Ali Hussain, is living in his own little dream world. He deludes himself as to what Islam is all about, whilst his co-religionists have no such delusions. The views of his co-religionists are not shocking to me at all. What is shocking to me is that an apparently intelligent person, hired as a reporter by a major newspaper, could be so wilfully blind, so utterly self-delusional and, worst of all, play the role of apologist for Islam and misinform non-Muslims about the true nature of Islam by suggesting that Islam is something other than what his co-religionists think it is. And please note that I am not saying that Muslims cannot interpret their religion any way they want to but you cannot fight the traditional interpretations of Islam by pretending the theological basis for those traditional interpretations does not exist. As Robert Spencer wrote recently, if it was 1615 and I, as a Christian, said that I did not think that the Doctrine of Transubstantiation was good Christian doctrine and here's why, that could be considered an attempt at reformation. However, if I simply declared that the Doctrine of Transubstantiation did not exist and was followed by no Christian of which I was aware, that would be deception!
Producing professional quality DVDs can cost money. This suggests that the Muslim community is being bamboozled by a deliberate, elaborate and calculated disinformation campaign that originates--where?
During the Cold War, the Western Left was constantly bamboozled by deliberate disinformation spread by the Soviet KGB.
We need to find out where this new anti-West disinformation saturating the Muslim community is coming from.
as far fetched to believe that the US/Britain caused the bombings on 9-11 and 7-7, they are plenty of nuts on the west who sprew out this insanity, such as the nutbar Alex Jones, from webpage.prisonplanet, and half the nuts backing the Dem. from Michael Moore, NYT, they all blame the US. so these muslims can get their cues from these nutbars. its good though that some muslims feel ashamed and upset at their own, but to be honest withthemelves they will either leave islam and be taken by it.
Another thing, muslims over here take out articles in newspaper every year that eid-ul-zaha is celebrated because allah asked mohammad to behead his son as sacrifice and mohammad did so. Only, when he had beheaded, he discovered that his son was intact and he had beheaded a sheep instead. That is why they saw off all those animals. But in the article above, it is mentined that Abraham was asked to do this. Can somebody help with this also please ?
As I understand it, Muhammad didn't have a son, only daughters.
The Eid festivals I know of are:
Eid al-Fittr, for the end of Ramadan, when all the Muslim men drive turbo-charged cars at 80 mph up and down 30 mph roads, blowing their horns for hours; and
Eid al-Hajj, at the time of the Hajj, when all the Muslim men gather in big crowds, glare at the police and loudly demand sexual favours of passing non-Muslim women. It's not a tenth as much fun as it sounds. And it doesn't even sound like fun.
WSW
All muslims are one reading of the qur'an away from jihad. This man may be "moderate" right now , but he is subject to change.
/Ever seen the movie 28 Days Later?
“You don’t get anywhere with the dirty kuffar (infidels),”
I have every confidence in Tony Blair's Britain, that this man will now be prosecuted for a race hate crime against non muslims......Just as Nick Griffin was when he called Islam a vile ideology.
“My life means nothing, you know,” he continued. “I would give up this evil, two-seconds of a life.” Earthly experience, I think he meant, was but a moment compared with paradise to come.
Earthly experience is seen, by the good Muslim, through the prism of a deformed contemptus mundi that excessively denigrates this life, nourishes pathological discontent with all the "heartache and thousand shocks that flesh is heir to" in this life, and channels this pathological discontent into getting to the next life through fighting evil enemies who are trying to block your way -- but, you see, the last laugh is on those Infidel enemies, for merely one drop of my blood that is shed in fighting them will translate me to eternal Paradise no matter what sins I may have committed in my life, says the voices in the Muslim's head.
“And understand this. In order for America and Britain to go to Iraq they have to have reasons and sometimes, I’m afraid, if you haven’t got a reason, you make up that reason.”
--
Here's an idea: how about we don't look for anymore reasons to go to the Middle East. How about, instead, we keep the Muslims out of the West!!
Fair is fair, after all. Everyone should be happy -- no?
What? You say the Muslims will not be happy if we don't let them into the West? That makes no sense -- oh. I see.
Muslims must spread Islam and they are convinced they own Destiny and the World. So, we must stay out of Mecca but they lobby in Washington, DC.
Yes, yes. Now I get it.
There's nothing fair about any of it, is there?
Outlaw Islam.
TV-
Your description of this 'world contempt' sounds like the mythical End Times of the medieval Cathars, wherein those 'peaceful, puritannical vegetarians' were finally allowed to let their anhedonic homicidal impulses run free and to kill their neighbors for the Eternal Peace in the Disembodied World and defeat of Ahriman (one of their borrowed names for the Earthbound 'Dark God') in this our 'fallen realm' -by denying him any further living bodies to prey upon.
Peace, as in Rest In, universal-style.
OT, somewhat-
Is Islam the true origin of the zombie, and not Haiti?
(It would be nice to know they invented something.)
Ask the Imam won't tell me.
Says I'm being facetious. And disruptive.
Inquiring minds want to know.
From the article above:
I was shocked when one day at the Hamara centre he began explaining how the London bombers could be seen as martyrs.
.........
He told me the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy and that he had a DVD which proved it. So were the London bombings, he said.
........
Hamid Ali had praised the bombers, saying their actions would make non-Muslims “prick up their ears” and listen.
.....................
I am constantly stunned by the cognitive dissonance exibited by so many extreme muslims. I realize that the above quotes refer to different individuals, but they seem to subscribe to a similar jihad ideaology. Yet, the factual statements are entirely contradictory! The bombers cannot both be martyrs (shaheed), and at the same time have been framed by the CIA or MI5 (who actually commited the bombings themselves, in this crazy view)--it simply makes no sense.
One of the most bizarre things I ever read was an interview with a young man in a crowd (I think he was Indonesian) who also claimed that 9/11 was a western plot. Not only did he both claim at different times that 9/11 was carried out by Americans (with some help from Mossad), but also that it never happened at all, but was simply movie effects. The kicker, though, was that during the interview he was wearing one of those hideous shirts for kids, with Bin Laden's face juxtaposed with the burning towers.
Brilliant Exposé
Bravo for courageous reporter Ali Hussain and the Sunday Times for an insider's glimpse into the secret society of Mo.
These deranged, death-worshipers, having their "dignity" called into question, are quite prone to violent, zealous, outrage.
Let's hope the Sunday Times is providing Ali Hussain with 24 hr. protection.
"Your description of this 'world contempt' sounds like the mythical End Times of the medieval Cathars"
The resemblance is not superficial: both are Gnostics.
Ah yes, it is all a conspiracy, the muslims are innocent victims who are being discriminated against. And the West is so evil they continue to live there and tolerate it because after all, islam is a religion of peace. I understand it all now. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! Submit!
The thing is there are hundreds of enclaves across Britain like Beeston.
Heres another example of RoP tolerance in action.
http://xrl.us/tolerance
Here you go arjun.sevak,
http://www.rationalchristianity.net/abe_isaac.html
Arjun.sevak wrote:
....eid-ul-zaha is celebrated because allah asked mohammad to behead his son as sacrifice and mohammad did so. Only, when he had beheaded, he discovered that his son was intact and he had beheaded a sheep instead. That is why they saw off all those animals. But in the article above, it is mentined that Abraham was asked to do this. Can somebody help with this also please ?
.............
I can't help you with your Eid questions (although I believe Eid just means something like "festival") but I can help with the story of the sacrifice of Isaac. I have a degree in Art History, and this story is a frequent subject of Medieval and Renaissance art.
First a little background:
Abraham is considered to be the first monotheist by Jews, Christians and Muslims. At a certain point he was quite elderly, and so was his wife, Sarah. She was barren (unable to conceive) and so they were childless. Realizing how much Abraham wanted a son, Sarah suggested that he conceive a child with his servant (probably slave) Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son, Ishmael.
Not long afterward, Sarah received a vision were she learns that she, despite being both barren and elderly, will bear Abraham a son after all. This is Isaac. After bearing Isaac, Sarah becomes jealous of Hagar and Ishmael (who is, after all, Abraham's eldest son). Hagar and Ismael are driven out into the desert. Both Jews and Muslims consider Arabs to be descended from Ismael, and Jews from Isaac.
In the Bible, the story goes that God talks to Abraham and tells him that to prove his faith in God that he must sacrifice what is most dear to him. This is of course Isaac, the son he and his wife have been waiting all their lives for. Although Abraham is saddened, he will sacrifice his son to prove his faith in God. As he raises his knife, a ram appears caught in a nearby thicket. This is the moment most commonly depicted in art. The ram, provided by God, is sacrificed in Isaac's place. God does not make Abraham sacrifice his son after all, but wanted to know that he was willing to do so.
In the Muslim version of this story (which I think you meant when you refered to Mohammed's sacrifice) it is not Isaac who would be Abraham's greatest sacrifice, but his first son, Ishmael. Hence, in this version, Abraham values most highly the future father of the Arabs (and Muslims), rather than Isaac, future father of the Jews and Christians.
As someone said above, Mohammed himself had no sons, which is what led to, in part, the Sunni/Shiite split. But that is a tale for another time.
Over here, the muslims say that mohammad had two sons, hassan and hussain. Both were 'martyred' at karbala. That is the reason they have this morbid festival, moharram, which they celebrate by whipping self and nicking the babies with knives.
I do admire him for spilling the beans on what goes on inside his cult. And Britain thinks they are doing one of the world's poorest countries a favour by letting so many of their roaches in, so that they don't have to sweat under the hot midday sun at Jessore or Sylhet.
Only thing - if they weren't in Britain, they'd be slipping into India, and claiming they were from Murshidabad or Nawadweep (two places in West Bengal that Bangladeshi immigrants (no one is legal) claim residency of, when confronted with their place of origin). I know this is small comfort to the Brits here, but one thing for sure - they wouldn't have stayed in that swamp covering the Sundarbans.
"You don’t get anywhere with the dirty kuffar"
Thats how deluded they are.
If they don't get anywhere why do they leave their islamic shitholes to move to non moslem countries ?
Obsessed with conspiracy theories, the more bizzare, the more they believe them.
Contradictory views, no grasp on reality.
I know of moslem girls who have had abortions, kids out of marriage with non moslems, been disowned by family who still wear those stupid veils, they are so ignorant they can't see the obvious contradiction.
However I do believe that with moslem women (please forgive me, I don't wish to lower the tone on this site)the contents of their panties will set them free.
This is from the Sunday Times:
Re Hirsi Ali' new book
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,923-2249434,00.html
he began to talk about a “western conspiracy against Muslims”
In psychological terms this is called "projection" or "transference". You accuse your opponent of what you yourself are doing. The Communists do this.
Remember when Hillary complained about "the vast right wing conspiracy" that was responsible for all of her husbands troubles???
Over here, the muslims say that mohammad had two sons, hassan and hussain. Both were 'martyred' at karbala. That is the reason they have this morbid festival, moharram, which they celebrate by whipping self and nicking the babies with knives.
No, those were his grandsons. The sons of one of his daughters (I forget which one - Fatima?).
WSW
WSW,
Thanks for clearing that for me. Yes, they were the grandsons.