Sharia Alert from Down Under. Sheik Mohammed Omran is perfectly free to moralize, but bitter experience has shown that slurs on Islam often turn into threats of violence against those who are perceived as doing the slurring. "Beauty queen uproar," from The Herald Sun, with thanks to JE:
THE Islamic community is bitterly divided over a Melbourne Muslim girl's entry into the Miss Teen Australia beauty pageant. Aspiring model Ayten Ahmet, 16, says she wants only to be a positive role model for teenagers.She believes religion is irrelevant to the competition.
The Craigieburn teenager hopes to be announced as a Victorian finalist in the contest, marketed as the southern hemisphere's biggest teen beauty pageant, at a preliminary event at Federation Square today.
But the pageant, which includes a swimwear section, has been condemned as sinful by some senior Muslims.
Melbourne cleric Sheik Mohammed Omran criticised the event, with his spokesman branding participation by Muslim girls as "a slur on Islam".
"They are ignorant of what their religion teaches and should learn their religion," the sheik's spokesman said.
"The teachings of the prophet and the Holy Koran do not encourage a girl to go out and uncover her modesty in public."
Victorian Islamic leader Yasser Soliman said participating in the contest was not in accordance with the teachings of Islam.
"What Islam teaches is that God-given beauty is only to be shared with the husband. It is not something used as a commercial gimmick, for financial gain, fame or entertainment,' he said....
This is where the feminists hold hands with the muslims. Forget the fact that the women are brutalized, mutilated, and murdered. The fact that islam forbids beauty contests is what feminists just adore.
The Left and Islam. What a combo.
This was all over the news on the tv tonight. IIRC, Sheikh Omran is the cleric who wasn't fanatical enough for Benbrika.
Apart from that, I thought it was great that the girl's father was on the tv as well, backing her up. She wants to have fun, so she should be able to, was the message from her parents. Also, they felt that religion had nothing to do with this.
Oops. I can feel a fatwa coming on.
L.Drummond.
OH, MY MY, a teenager wanting to join the land of the living.
Leave her alone, muslims. She wants a life.
Amazing what enrages muslims.
Killing people is ok - but beauty pageants???
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
The greatest sin in their pathetic minds!!Expose a finger!
Murder and terrorism is fine!!
I hope she does well, even tho' by islamic standards she doesn't rank high.
I hope they don't intimidate her.Go Girl!!
Um, as a leftist and a feminist, I think you are spreading things a little thick there 8-22. Yes, some feminists condemn beauty pagents, because, they say, it bases a women's worth only on her physical beauty. Many other feminists, such as I, say a women can choose to join these contests of their own free will and have no problem with it.
But that is LIGHTYEARS away from why this muslim dude is against this women's participation: she is only of value as the property of her husband and there is no feminist worth his salt who believes this.
Feminists I knew spoke out against helping Kuwait and protecting S.A. in Gulf I because of the Kuwaitis and S.A. making women second class citizens (no right to vote, remember). They wanted to force K. and S.A. to promise to grant equal rights to women before we agreed to allow our troops to defend them. We see how well that has worked out.
Finally, to tar feminists as friends of terrorists because they both share a disdain of beauty pagents (for very different reasons) is similar to what leftist do when they paint Conservatives as the "American Taliban" because, like Muslims, Conservatives want prayer in school, are against gay marriage, are against women in the work place, are against the teaching of evolution, ect. ect. ect.
But, in the interest of dialogue, please tell me what feminists you are talking about so I can write these dumbasses and tell them to get their crap regading Islam together.
"Some Conservative..."
I hope that girl and her family takes caution. Some fanatical Muslim is liable to kill her for dressing in an un-Islamic manner.
Isn't there the possibility that some Muslim could use something from the hadith or Koran to justify (in an Islamic sense) raping her? I know some Muslims rape western women (Australia and Sweden) under that pretext, I just don't know what Islamic materials they use to justify their sick actions.
MINOs.
Muslims In Name Only.
On the one hand:
The Sheik's spokesman branded the competition slur on Islam. And it is.
Victorian Islamic leader Yasser Soliman said the contest did not conform with the teachings of the Koran. And it doesn't.
On the other:
The girl was surprised by the objections.
The parents said her faith was irrelevant to the contest, the family is Australian first and foremost, and his daughter was entitled to participate.
Sherene Hassan of the Islamic Council of Victoria stated:
*The Sheik's comments were unfair and don't represent the mainstream Muslim community.
*Beauty contests were exploitative, but she supported Ms Ahmet's right to make her own choice.
*She never judged women by the clothes they wore.
Moderate Muslims are either ignorant of Islam's teachings, or if they do know, they either blaspheme Islam in ignoring them, or they deny their existence.
Advice for the family, Ms. Hassan and the 'mainstream Muslim community': If you're not willing to follow all of Islam's oppressive rules, then drop the pretense, the hypocrisy, and Islam.
That's when muslim males use rape as punishment, non-redneck.
Good points, PRCS
"The teachings of the prophet ... "
OT question for the experts here ... if Mohammed was a prophet, what did he prophesy? And has it come to pass yet?
Just curious ...
Bizarre...A 16 year old girl taking a bit of pride in her youthful beauty is a slur on Islam, but having the Islamic age of consent for girls in marriage as 9 is perfectly ok.
You couldn't make it up.
Maybe she deserves acid thrown in her face to teach her a lesson.
"If you're not willing to follow all of Islam's oppressive rules, then drop the pretense, the hypocrisy, and Islam."
exactly, saying that "the contest has nothing to do with religion" is stupid. It's hiding behind one finger.
According to muslim nothing bad in the world that happens for islam has nothing to do with religion. Yet religion regulates everything of the muslims' life.
I think one of the biggest problems this cleric has, is, she's female and she's CHOOSING, to do this. CHOOSING. Using her own thought processes. She's stepping outside the boundaries that muslim males and islam sets for women. The cleric has in the back of his mind that she SHOULD have been married when she turned nine.
More muslim girls (of course that would be the girls in free civilized countries) need to step outside the box, challenge islam, and begin to pave the way for changes in their cult. The girls in muslim countries would be honor killed, so for the moment they can't.
I am encouraged by this. There are a lot of nominal Muslims in the west who don't care about Islam's intellectual and cultural prison system and ignore it freely. At the same time, they may circle the wagons when they feel they are being discriminated against or hated for their racial background. Race and religious ideology can be separated in such a way that people like this tolerant, westernized family does not feel lumped in with the looney set whem push comes to shove. It's mainly the job of people like us to explain that Islam and Muslims are not the same thing, and that the canonical texts of Islam are a problem for Muslims, just as they are for everyone else.
It is unlikely this girl, at least, will end up wearing a hijab. I still believe liberty will win out in the end, even for the Muslim populations in the west. It's just so much better to have a teenager in a pageant than in a mobile tent, or a loveless forced marriage to a man a generation older.
Watch out for the riots Aussies !!!
BTW, hurricane Ernesto is heading to the Gulf Cosat, and since there may be a mosque in its path, The Muslim United Council of the US (MUCOUS) considers Ernesto to be an infidel ploy to destroy a mosque and is a slur to Islam.
How dare she flaunt her beauty! She should study her religion and blow herself up!
Remember a much worse slur, one against the Christian faith, that "Islam is a religion of peace" ? That is a true defamation against Christian believers because it covers up the truth about islam and it end ups becoming a lie.
My advice to those who are oppose to this young lady, LEAVE HER ALONE please.
"The teachings of the prophet and the Holy Koran do not encourage a girl to go out and uncover her modesty in public."
Why is muhammed called a "prophet " when he is simply not one?
Hello again from Ál Andaluz´...
This female is not kosher!
Before I left Australia there was an article in one of the papers that had her depicted as very 'Islamic´and she is on record that she would spread the faith wherever she goes and she sees herself as an àmbassador´for Islam, so hold your horses and think twice before you take her side, she is not on ours...
Bigcatgirl, I'm sure he's called that because it's the only way to legitimize his brutality, savagery, pedophilia, criminality, and his epileptic siezures. One thing for certain, he was NOT a holy man.
freewoman,
Thanks for posting a response. When I think of the word "prophet", I offten think of those people of the Bible times and even of men and women of Christian faith who lived holy lives or who died as martyrs, true martyrs at that. That word I will not profane when it comes to mo.
freewoman,
I was actually looking for the specific verses in the Koran or Hadith (more likely the Hadith). The only thing I could find was Mohammed's rules for sex with slave girls taken as spoils of war.
I think it may be based on an example by Mohammed where he raped a Jewish woman (in the Hadith?) because she made fun of him. I may be off in the story but I think this is it. I'm trying to find the exact verse.
Sheik
thanks for the insight and also for posting from your various locations!!
Celcius:
"Maybe she deserves acid thrown in her face to teach her a lesson."
LOL, you're right. But there are several other ways for her fellow Muslims to teach her a lesson. They could:
a) Bury her up to her waist in the ground, with her body bundled up, and throw rocks at her until she bleeds to death.
b) Order her to be gang-raped by her tribe, then kill her if she doesn't kill herself from shame.
c) If they're moderates and they're feeling particularly merciful, they could merely slit her throat and bury her facing Mecca.
Sheik Yermani
"Before I left Australia there was an article in one of the papers that had her depicted as very 'Islamic´and she is on record that she would spread the faith wherever she goes and she sees herself as an àmbassador´for Islam,"
Uhuh. And she'll be an ambassador for Islam by participating in a beauty contest. Unless she does so wearing loose clothing covering nothing but her face and hands, I think Mohammed will want to recall the young Ms. Ambassador.
Even if she does follow Islamic rules when participating, which I doubt as there is a swimsuit competition, then she's still guilty by association. Religious Muslims, for example, will not eat off your dishes because pork may have touched them, and will not visit your house because you used to have a dog. If she participates, she is tainted.
I think I confused two events.
One was where Mohammed had several people assassinated because they mocked him.
The event I'm thinking of must have been Mohammed's Jewish wife, Safiyah, who Mohammed raped under the spoils of war edict as dictated in the Koran (and later married).
"Um, as a leftist and a feminist, I think you are spreading things a little thick there 8-22. Yes, some feminists condemn beauty pagents, because, they say, it bases a women's worth only on her physical beauty. Many other feminists, such as I, say a women can choose to join these contests of their own free will and have no problem with it."
I'm a feminist too, and I totally agree. The point is that women need to have a full range of career choices. If, in that context, they choose to enjoy and display their beauty (as do many men in body-building contests), I have no problem with it.
But when using one's body is a woman's only 'career' option, in modelling, prostitution, pornography etc. it's actually closer to islam, which sees a woman's only value in her body. That is what true feminists oppose, and the best way to oppose it is to keep expanding women's career choices.
This young woman is showing strength and independence. Good on her!
Another thing is that the older I get, the more appreciate seeing young, fit, well functioning bodies. It's not a sexual thing at all - just an enjoyment of seeing bodies that are still young and perfect, whether or not they are traditionally 'beautiful'.
Well, I appreciate seeing older fit people too - they give me hope for the future, LOL.
This sort of mentality, I find amusing but very sad, in the west women have exposed different parts of there body at different times in history and emphasised them by the use of fashion to attract mates. The bussel in Victorian time emphasised the backside. The mini skirt the legs high heeled shoes the feet, a deep cleavage the breasts, the list goes on. It is normal, it is genetically built into Homo Sapien. When women are free to chose, then they tend to do this, in what ever society they live in. When you are property and have to live inside a bin liner this ability is suppressed, but not the desire. Nature will out , you see muslim women painting there hands with designs in henna. In Iran the big thing at the moment is getting plastic surgery on the nose far more than in the west. These are the two parts of the body that most muslim women are allowed to expose, and therefore they concentrate in trying to make them more attractive. When you realise this, you realise how pathetic and sick Islam really is.
The media in its usual uncaring way has just signed her death warrent... If they had not asked her if she was Muslim, no one would have known, and what right does the press have to ask her if she is a Muslim... If they knew the Quran they would know that she most probably will get death threats now, thanks to the reporter...
non-redneck, Muslims gang rape in every country they go onto or adopt... they see Jews as pigs and apes, us as goodness knows what, so it amazes me that they dont have any trouble in putting a part of their body into something they find is inhuman. Oh well I supose they do practice bestiality...and in their paradise there are virgins, both boys and girls what ever is their fancy... They are not allowed to be naughty on earth other than with their many wives, and their slaves, but when they go to heaven all earthly laws which are seen as disgusting on earth are now valided, it is no wonder they are so confused..
Sherene Hassan of the Islamic Council of Victoria stated:
*The Sheik's comments were unfair and don't represent the mainstream Muslim community.
Well then Sherene, dress like the rest of us instead of hiding behind something which is scary to us, we cant even see the eyes...
Of course it represents the mainstream Muslim community, we see how they dress, and good on them as long as they dont critisise us for the way we dress, I also believe that too many of our girls dress like prostitutes so often but that is between them and their God it is their problem not mine, I wont go out there and slaughter them because of it..
I happen to believe that most of our men are not weak like Muslim men obviously are, Muslim men rape at the drop of a hat because they cannot control themselves, poor things...they have to have their women totally covered so as to not inflame their passions, and a Muslim man told me that they have more than one wife so as they dont go out and be unfaithful when their wife has her period....
Poor dears cant they control their urges until their wifes period is finished.
Bigcatgirl13106, when you confront a muslim with that question, they will do their best to not answer it. Islam is a cult of submission after all, and slaves do not ask questions. There are NO prophecies in the koran. Ask any muslim to show you one of Mohammed's prophecies. They can't do it. The best they can do is claim that Mohammed was an illiterate man and he wrote a book (the koran) and that is a miracle that qualifies him as a prophet. However Mohammed never wrote anything, he recited the koran (koranmeans "recited" in Arabic.), and the koran did not come into existance as a written book during Mohammed's lifetime, it was collected and put into its' present shape well after his death. So no miracle there. Even if it had been written by others as Mohammed recited it, dictation does not qualify as a "miracle".
Seems simple enough, no prophecy = no prophet/false prophet. But muslims seem unable or unwilling to put one and one together.
Bohemond_1069, everything useful that has ever been discovered can be found in the Koran. From the geology of mountains, to the human embryo and the motion of the planets. You just have to know where to look (with hindsight...a bit like Nostrodamus).
Anyone disagreeing with me, will be found guilty of racism and Islamophobia and have their head chopped off.
Ayten Ahmet must be very careful, even though she lives in Austrailia.
8/15/04 Atefeh Sahaleh( Atefe Rajabi) 16, was convicted of "engaging in acts incompatible with chastity", in other words, pre-marital sex. In the town of Neka in northern Iran, she had a relationship with a militia officer "in charge of vice". The girl was poor, and suffered from mental illness. She took off some of her clothes at the trial, which so incensed the judge that he put the rope around her neck himself, then signaled the crane operator to pull the rope. Hanging is a horrible way to die, but at least the western world tries to make it as quick as possible.
This illustrates Islam more eloquently than I ever could.Men get one punishment (100 lashes) and women get death. She got a slow,public strangulation for all to enjoy, as taught in the Koran. If she had been a virgin she also would have been raped to keep her out of heaven. Old Allah and Mohammed must be proud. Is there any doubt why these animals must be stopped?
God help us if our leaders continue down the path of stupidity they have chosen concerning Islam.
Their "don't know, don't care" attitude is going to get a lot more of us killed.
Mo ok'd rape - it's probably in one of the hadith's out there! Hey he had a sexual dream about a 6 yr old & married her, had sex with this child when she was 9 yrs old. He was a demon posseded sicko.
Please, don't give these guys any ideas (acid in the face) They are know to do that type of thing to other young girls, (Christian girls - in Sudan)that they have kidnapped and raped (in the name of allah). Plus they don't need any more sicko ideas, they have the holy koran,the prophet Muhammed, and the moon rock god, allah to guide them. My personal wish is that he (allah) would guide them right off the planet, right to their own special place - doesn't that sound special. By the way nothing and I do mean nothing Muhammed ever said was prophetic. From all that I've read, all the messages he ever gave on the koran, he gave when he was under seizure like conditions.
By the way allah is in lower case because he is an "a god" a little god. I consider him a no god!!
Aprilyn, the muslim males throw acid in girls/women's faces in Iran also. If a girl in Iran is seen wearing makeup, on the street or anywhere, they will make them rub the makeup off with cotton balls filled with pieces of glass. So islam is "real" friendly to their female folk.
"... branding participation by Muslim girls as "a slur on Islam"."
Sure. Right. And Islam is a slur on girls. Now what?
Two reviews on Amazon for Carl Ernst's book on Muhammad. Despite the praise, the real story can be detected: one prior book, "The Shambhala Guide to Sufism" (and Ernst is doubtful about the publishing houses with which Spencer is associated?) which bears a telling title, and one almost feels like stopping right there, when Carl Ernst asks to be taken seriously and dares to fling around the word "unscholarly."
Then there is the description of his work containing all the favorite themes of apologists for Islam -- Islam "is not a monolith," theWest is full of "unfair and inaccurate stereotypes" about Islam" and so on. No surprises. The usual. Full texts below:
From Publishers Weekly
Ernst, a professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, is not a stranger to Islam-related controversy. His recommendation of Michael Sells's book Approaching the Qur'an to the UNC Summer Reading Program for incoming freshmen spurred an international firestorm. Following Muhammad itself was rejected by the publisher that had commissioned the manuscript, as some editors there objected to publishing a book that could be construed as supporting terrorism. Despite these obstacles, Ernst brought the book to another press with rewarding results: it is a pleasure to read. Ernst has a multilayered and self-assured understanding of Islam, and his writing exemplifies a fluency in explaining it that is unique to him, even compared to better-known scholars of the religion. Delicate and complex points about Islam as a religion and culture, about Sufism, and even about Osama bin Ladin, flow off the page effortlessly, with only a few spots that are too abstract. Rather than addressing the standard introductory information about Islam, like the Five Pillars, he has organized his book by themes, with chapters on topics such as ethics and spirituality. The book's greatest strength is Ernst's unrelenting but well-reasoned critique of how the West has consistently marginalized Islam and Muslims from the first encounters onward. Ernst is fair, however-while he admonishes the West for indulging in negative and inaccurate stereotypes of Islam and Muslims, he calls upon Muslims to participate fully in the pluralistic society the world has become."
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.
From Booklist
Ernst is highly regarded for his books about Sufism (The Shambhala Guide to Sufism, 1997) and his brilliant translations of Sufi texts. But in this compelling, if occasionally disorganized, book, Ernst introduces the larger Islamic world and its history in engaging, thought-provoking prose. The overarching argument here is that the West ought not understand Islam as a monolith, that debate and diversity are inherent in Islam and were encouraged by the Prophet. So while most introductions to Islam give Shi'ism and Sufism short shrift, they are presented here as vital facets of Islamic belief. Although the text skips around historically, readers will come away with a good understanding of the different schools of Islamic thought and practice. Special attention is paid to the hot-button topics: gender and veiling, the relationship between Islam and democracy, and Islamist radicalism, for example. Ernst's obvious passion for Islam comes through quite beautifully here, and the rare mix of clear writing and careful scholarship makes this an important purchase for any Islamic studies collection." John Green.
Celsius, quite true. One just has to overlook scienctific evidence that proves the quran to be nothing more than a crude rehashing of old fairy tales and legends. Once you get past that and having to ignore the truth, no problem!
Lili and ryoga,
I appreciate the distinctions that both of you so clearly make. Often in these polemics, many of us use "feminist" when we really mean "radical feminist" of the most extreme type. This is something that is more a creation of the media than a real phenomenon.
Not all self-defined feminists are extremist child-hating, abortion as a sacrament, men-castrating, far-left Marxist, lesbian witches, of the Andrea Dworkin variety, despite the way that the media wishes to portray them. Even though I would be considered a "Christian rightist", I happen to love the polemics and biting feminist critiques of thinkers like Camille Paglia, even when I happen to disagree with her.
So keep up the fight and keep posting!
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