The measure to revise the rape laws in Pakistan continues to inch forward, but will always face opposition from those who share the opinion of Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, quoted below, that "Neither Parliament or anyone else has the authority to remove or change laws of God" regarding accusations of rape and adultery (see Qur'an 24:13).
An update on this story from AP: "Pakistan mulls changing much-criticized Islamic rape laws"
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - The government will propose legislation amending Pakistan’s rape laws to remove the near impossible burden of proof placed on victims and protect them from retaliatory adultery charges, a senior lawmaker said Tuesday.
The draft amendment will likely be submitted soon to the National Assembly, or lower house of Parliament, Mahnaz Rafi, chairwoman for Parliament’s special committee for women’s development, told The Associated Press.
This will be a historic change and it will end decades of miseries for women,” said Rafi, a lawmaker of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League-Q party.
Since Pakistan adopted Islamic law in 1979, a woman must produce four Muslim witnesses to prove she is the victim of a rape. A woman who claims she was raped but fails to prove her charges can then be arrested and convicted of adultery or for having sex outside marriage.
Under the proposed amendments, the person who accuses a woman of committing adultery (or has sex outside of marriage) will have to come up with four witnesses” in a common law court, Rafi said.
Pakistan has two parallel and sometimes overlapping legal systems: one based on British common law and another based on Islamic law.
Under Islamic, or Shariah, law, women can be sentenced to death by stoning if found guilty of having sex outside of marriage, although the usual sentence is life in prison.
President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, a moderate, has sought to reform Islamic laws to improve women’s rights in the past but backed off because of strong opposition in deeply conservative Pakistan.
Earlier this month, however, Musharraf signed an amendment that allowed women awaiting charges to be released on bail - his first change to Pakistan’s Islamic laws.
A lawmaker from a coalition of radical Islamic groups said Tuesday that the coalition opposes repealing Islamic laws in their entirety, as many moderates are demanding, but it may support legislation aimed at improving how investigations are handled.
"Neither Parliament or anyone else has the authority to remove or change laws of God,” said Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, a prominent figure in the Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal or United Action Forum opposition coalition.
Ahmed, a member of the National Assembly, declined to comment in detail because he had not seen the draft amendments.
Parties supporting Musharraf have enough strength in Parliament to pass the bill.
When a public debate such as this takes place in a nation, then it is a nation of savages. Praise Allah.
More proof that Islam is a stone-age toss back with no moral compass. The only people who convert are men seeking domination of woman; woman seeking the domination of men and those whose lives are such a mess that the idea of not having to think for themselves is a relief...
I have a solution to Saudi terror at my blog, tell me what you think.
Many of generals and zamindars who own and run Pakistan have one great desire: that their own children be permitted to move to the West, be educated there, and live there permanently. They know perfectly well how hideous Pakistan is, they know what the population is like. They do not, they will not dare, to connect it to Islam, nor will they ever ask themselves why it is that their fondest wish is to have their children find a future in the West -- they couldn't allow themselves to think about this, to understand what it means.
But the governments of the Western world, especially those of the United States and Great Britain, can possibly hodl those dreams for their children -- and their children's future -- hostage, to make sure that they collaborate with us, not because Pakistan is or ever could be our "staunch ally" -- that is impossible, Islam makes it impossible -- but because the prospect of their children being condemned to the permanent prison of Pakistan is too painful.
If you are at the very top -- if you are Pinky Bhutto, formerly of Briggs Hall, Radcliffe, whose father had his own political movement, then you may indeed return home. If you are running a jute factory, or the vast land-holdings of some zamindars, then you might also find the place endurable. Just.
But if you are the child of generals, and have in your years of education in the West managed to acquire a taste for civilization, you will not be so satisfied with a life of, by, and for Islam, and all that the atmospherics of Islam create.
A harder line with Musharraf et al. should have been taken long ago. It is not too late.
Naseem? Care to comment old girl?
I've thought of something. What are rape laws in Israel like in contrast to those in Islamic countries? I'm extremely eager to find out here. (I'm pretty stupid in politics even though I read a lot of things at JW/DW quite attentively). Given how the Muslim world complains of Israel being a "Jewish terrorist" state (whether or not they use those words, they still mean it), I am surprised that nations with such atrocious human rights violations would complain about Israel being this so-called evil Zionist state.
Don't be surprised if an outcome of this debate is rape victims being prosecutable for rape, instead of adultery.
"Neither Parliament or anyone else has the authority to remove or change laws of God."
THIS god must be crazy.
Assalamau Laikum all,
It is important to know how we have got to this “divine” situation of rape etc.
This all stems back from when Muhammad’s fellow Muslims accused Aisha of infidelity — cheating on the prophet. It’s hard to believe that she would act so immaturely at fourteen..and I don’t think she did.
When the raid on the Mustaliq took place, Muhammad had his wives draw lots as he used to do to see who would accompany him. Aisha’s lot came out and he took her along.
Aisha says “When the people had mounted, I went out to attend to a need of mine (to relieve myself). While I was away, the men who saddled the camel for me assumed that I was in the litter and lifted it up. When I returned to the camp, not a soul was there.
Later Safwan al-Sulami passed by. He had lagged behind attending to a need of his. He had not spent the night with the troops. When he saw my form, he approached me and stood over me. He used to look at me before we took to the veil and hijab. When he saw me, he exclaimed in astonishment, ‘The Apostle’s wife!’. He brought his camel near and said, ‘Mount! I mounted and he came. He took hold of the camel’s head and set out with me, hastening in pursuit of the party. He told me to ride it while he kept behind. So I rode it.”
However rumors of “who had mounted what” were vicious. Mistah, Hassan, and Hamnah accused her of adultery.
Tabari VIII:60 “The story reached the Prophet and Aisha says "I missed the attention he once showed me.”
Muhd however really loved Aisha, and he wanted the “truth” to be revealed by Allah…he sat up; drops of sweat fell from him like silver beads. He began wiping the perspiration from his brow and said, ‘Good news, Aisha! Allah has sent down word about your innocence.’ I said, ‘To Allah’s praise and your blame!’ Then he went out to the people and preached to them as below.
Qur'an 24.4 “And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.”
Ofcourse Aisha had only three accusers.
He recited the Qur’an Allah had revealed concerning Aisha and gave orders concerning Mistah, Hassan, and Hamnah who were the most explicit in their slander. They received their prescribed flogging of eighty lashes for their slander.
Muhd. Seems to get out of this hole quite nicely, got Aisha back and the perpetrators were punished…but unfortunately this has been the worst revelation for muslima womens after Aisha.
Peoples take this as divine law today as well…. Hence the problems in Pak. As long as the MMA (religious party) holds great influence in Pak, it is unlikely that anything of substance will change regarding this law in Pak or other Sunni countries.
As a final note, please note that the Ahmadi would like to see a change in the law as fairness for womens in the Ahmadi way is of top priority…so you see it is still ok to convert to Ahmadi.
Thanks, Naseem, for your usual obfuscation. Allah(pork sluice be upon him) would be proud of you.
(if he weren't too busy sodomizing Mohammad in the afterlife)
"It’s hard to believe that she [Aisha] would act so immaturely at fourteen..."
-- from a posting above
Indeed.
"When the raid on the Mustaliq took place, Muhammad had his wives draw lots as he used to do to see who would accompany him. Aisha’s lot came out and he took her along"
Wanna bet muhammad cheated on that too.
"Muhd. Seems to get out of this hole quite nicely"
The madman got out of the hole, that is the whole problem naseem. That is why we are typing this. Who let the madman out ?
Qur'an 24.4 “And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.”
Of course Aisha had only three accusers. - Naseem
I think we see another convenient ruling from allah. Situational scripture to fit the current needs of a opportunistic sociopath ( Mohammed ). Kind of like the ruling allowing Mohammed to marry his daughter-in-law because he got horny after seeing her hot body. allah always came through for Mohammed in a troublesome situation. Kind of like when Mohammed got caught between slave girl Miriam's legs. Again, allah supports Mohammed's needs. How convenient.
These passages are so confusing to me. How did they become interpreted to mean if a woman DOESN'T have four witnesses to prove that she was raped, she is guilty of fornication or adultery?
To me it is saying that unless four people state they know she for sure was fornicating, it would be assumed she was raped and therefore not guilty. But it seems from what I read, everyone says unless she has four people to testify that she was raped, she is automatically found guilty of fornication.
Just an indication of how humans can rationalize anything and make plain words say what they want them to say.
MO and his convenient dispensations from Allah is like a bratty, bullying child who needs to win, so he keeps chaqnging the rules.
The Koran is a hopelessly confused and jumbled "document." Anyone with a brain would have to suspend disbelief to claim that it is of divine or moral origin.
The Bible tags Satan as the father of all lies. The Koran is full of lies. I don't mean simply "errors" or culture-bound misconceptions. MO was a bloodthirsty, perverted liar and he has prescribed blood, perversion and lies as his legacy.
Naseem your cult is stuck on the bleatings of that old goat you still follow, Mohammed. His lies are the source of all your troubles. That is why you will never be reformed, never be a modern society. You are stuck in a seventh century mentality.
India's Sikhs had the right answer for your cult.