Yet another attempt to deflect attention away from jihad terror and onto anti-terror efforts. Muslim groups in Britain, including the jihadist Hizb-ut-Tahrir, are doing their best to portray yesterday's arrests as the unwarranted vilification of the Muslim community. It's a campaign of deceit designed to shore up the falsehood that the religion of the plotters is incidental, despite the fact that it is almost certainly their primary motivation. From the Hizballah News Agency, aka Reuters, with thanks to Twostellas:
LONDON (Reuters) - Muslims criticised the government on Friday for publishing the names of 19 men who police sources say are under arrest for allegedly plotting to blow up passenger planes bound for the United States.The government instructed the Bank of England to publish the names on its Web site on Thursday, just hours after police arrested 24 people in connection with the suspected plot.
Police have not named the 24 but a police source confirmed they include the 19 named by the central bank. Although the bank did not give the addresses of the 19, it listed their dates of birth and the areas where they live.
The bank's action is unusual. Normally, authorities do not publish the names of suspects until they have been formally charged and identified by the police.
But the government defended the move, saying it was essential to ensure the assets of the 19 were frozen.
"The Treasury has informed us that this is a normal procedure," Home Secretary John Reid told a news conference.
"When people's assets are frozen, the names are published, and this, the Treasury tells us, is part of the obligation of ensuring that people cannot deal with such individuals in the transfer of assets."
Some Muslim groups said the move was unnecessary and could hamper the suspects' chance of a fair trial if they are eventually charged in connection with the plot.
The Federation of Student Islamic Societies (FOSIS), an umbrella group representing Muslim students, said it was "extremely disappointed" by the government's action.
"It is important to wait until a thorough investigation has taken place before pointing fingers and drawing conclusions," FOSIS spokesman Wakkas Khan said in a statement.
"It is important to maintain the legal principles we hold dear, namely the concept of innocent until proven guilty."
The government said that in publishing the names, it was not inferring guilt.
Police are still questioning the 24 suspects and can hold them for up to 28 days before either charging or releasing them.
Hizb ut-Tahrir, a radical Islamist party which the government says it plans to ban, said it too was dismayed by the publication of the names.
"It concerns us that there is already talk in the media about the ethnic identity of the suspects, and that suspects are presumed guilty before any due process," said Imran Waheed, spokesman for the British branch of the party.
"We urge caution before jumping to conclusions."
Many Muslims accuse the police of unfairly targeting their community in their crackdown on terrorism.
Since 2000, police have arrested over 700 people -- many of them Muslims -- under tough anti-terrorism laws, but have brought only a handful to court. The vast majority have been released without charge.
Please, let me shed a tear.....hahahaahahhahahahaha. So looking at the Muslim community is "unfairly targeting"? I'd call it common sense. You don't go to the desert for duck hunting. Perhaps if 99.9% of terrorists weren't Islamofascist I'd see their point.
From If The Shoe Fits dept.
Buy the politicians, MSM and law enforcement a VOWEL!!
http://www.lundesigns.com/
Debbie Schlussel adds her own puzzle:
"R - L - G - - N OF P - - CE"
Henry,
Good show, man! There is a reason for the hysterical reaction to the Muhammad cartoons. The foundations of Islam are shaky. One good kick, and the whole rotten structure will collapse. The Imams and Muslim political leaders clearly know this, but Islam is the source of their power, so they resist criticism mightily.
I have been looking for fellow travellers in the Islam-criticism business, but they are hard to find, and what to do is very much unclear, though Robert Spencer leads the way. As many people as possible should be exposed to a convincing, withering attack on Islam, its core texts, and the character of Muhammad. For infidels I liken this to an innoculation. For Muslims, a painful therapy session where they might begin to excorsize their demons.
Do not underestimate the power of ridicule. This is not a laughing matter. Mock Muhammad and Islam as this will eventually help the Muslims get rid of their cult. They must feel embarrassed for calling themselves Muslim.
This therapy works. I have seen it work many times. Intelligent people, who at first defend Islam, feel embarrassed to be called Muslims, once they see the stupidity of this cult, and claim they are not Muslims. They try to dissociate themselves from it.
Dr Ali Sina
OMG please just get rid of these people! They cry about everything! Please make them go away forever!
No seriously if the Moslems want to be treated like human beings they should try becoming human first!
Re: Muslims criticise naming of plot suspects
These advocates of Sharia law are so concerned with their secular British rights? Apparently, they don't see that their con game is over.
Catherine, "seams" are a part of your clothing. "Seems", I believe, is the word you want.
Yaaawn.....get me their address and I'll mail them .25 cents to phone someone that gives a SH*T , because I don't , in fact...they can dial any number at random and I assure you that whom ever
answers the call will care about their hurt feelings far more than I do .
Hezbollah has supporters here in Canada and a local Palestinian group calling for Peace has put Politicians on their Hit-List and at least it shows they're not bias in Palestinian hatred
for anyone with a different version of reality.
*************************************************
The Canada Palestine Association, Vancouver www.cpavancouver.org and the Palestine Community Centre of B.C. www.palestinecommunitycentre.com issued the following statement on June 24, 2006.
Oppose Supporters of Israeli War Crimes at the World Peace Forum
It has come to our attention that the World Peace Forum (WPF) is regrettably associating with supporters of Israeli war crimes against the Palestinian people. Following are examples of support given to Israel by the individuals in question. Peace without justice or peace without principles is of no use to the oppressed peoples of the world. Amnesty Int'l, B'tselem and many other groups have meticulously detailed various war crimes of the Israeli government and military. We remind the WPF and these personalities that such support is directly against the articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention and international law.
1- Vancouver's Deputy Mayor David Cadman brought greetings to the Walk for Israel held on Sunday May 28, 2006.
2- The Lieutenant Governor of British Columbia Iona Campagnolo attended the Hadassah-WIZO (Women's Int'l. Zionist Organization) Convention in Vancouver in November 2005 as an honoured guest.
3- Vancouver's Mayor Sam Sullivan attended the "Jewish National Fund" Negev dinner April 23, 2006 and was honoured for supporting Israel and the "greening" (read ethnic cleansing) of the Negev.
4- Beverley Jacobs, President, Native Women's Association of Canada, was part of the much-criticized AFN delegation to Israel in Feb. 2006.
5- MP Alexa MacDonough is a member of Canada-Israel Interparliamentary Group. When she prepared her NDP report on violation of human rights in the world, she totally ignored the Israeli violations of Palestinian human rights.
We call upon all people interested in a genuine peace in the Middle East to challenge these individuals and the WPF on this issue. Let us follow the brave example of unions and church groups world-wide that have stood up and clearly stated it can no longer be "business as usual" with the Israeli state.
A peace and justice or anti-racist group would never invite a supporter of South African Apartheid, or an anti-union or sexist politician. And rightly, they would expect all of the progressive movement to support them in that decision.
Why is Israel an exception?
*************************************************
History has shown us that the fascists go after Political leader before slaughtering the citizens to purge society of the people that disagree with the State control for behaviour.
When a Muslims lips are moving, he is either lying or trying to pull the wool over your eyes.
I've come to the point were frankly I couldn't care less that Muslims are offended by this or that. They are always offended about something, starting with the fact we Infidels are still free to be Infidels so what's the point.
The violence and hatred that comes out of Islam, as well as their denial, lying, misinformation and attitude offends the hell out of me and they don't care. Why should I care about what offends them? Inf act, I hope and pray we start giving them real reasons to be offended. Begin surveilance of all mosques and festering Islamic pools of hatred, er, I mean Islamic communities, for starters.
"Some Muslim groups said the move was unnecessary and could hamper the suspects' chance of a fair trial if they are eventually charged in connection with the plot."
ROFL, silly muslims, tricks are for kids!
Yes, I could see people getting Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed mixed up with Mohammed Mohammed bin Mohammed. One being a innocent muslim and the other an innocent devout muslim.
well if these muslims are so upset they l) clean up their act aka religion, or move back to a muslim country. its like the king who wore no clothes, everyone knows its the koran/islam, just cant say it now out in the open.
Islam is dying
Islam is dying
Islam is dying
exsgtbrown:
Let's hope to God that you're right.
Cry me a river...
OK, so we use caution before jumping to conclusions. BUT now that we SEE that this activity is by yet ANOTHER group of Islamic Supremacists, what is our conclusion?
I know, how about that Islam is evil (which it is), that the Quran commands such activity (which it does)and that 7th century pagan, barbaric islam, a complete lie, has no place in a civilized world and should be OUTLAWED IMMEDIATELY. Furthermore, we should begin to target islamic citizens in their own countries as they are doing to us, so that THEIR OWN PEOPLE bear the consequences of their irresponsible and wicked behavior instead of innocent westerners, whose only "crime" is knowing that islam is a lie and mohammed (mayheburninhell)was a wicked pervert and the first muslim terrorist.
What further evidence does it have to take before we conclude these OBVIOUD things?
These people's chutzpa is amazing! Instead of being on the defensive, they take the initiave and attack! Well, they know they're dealing with a bunch of softies.
Muslim "civil rights organisations" are nothing more than the propaganda arms of the global Jihad. Their only purpose is to assist the terrorists by spreading disinformation, silencing dissidents and issuing thinly veiled threats whenever the authorities want to do something, or have done something. It's amazing that these criminal organizations are allowed to operate.
All these arrests are obviously an attempt to distract people from the genocide Israel is committing in Lebanon: you would have to be living in a crackpot community that refuses to mix with -indeed is probably incapable of mixing with - the surrounding population, to believe anything else.
"you would have to be living in a crackpot community that refuses to mix with -indeed is probably incapable of mixing with - the surrounding population, to believe anything else."
Like the middle east or Pakisatn or any other intolerant, hateful muslim nation?
The concern that these actions may impede the suspects' ability to obtain a fair trial may be legitimate, at least partly, if the freezing of the assets means that the accuseds can not pay for the services of lawyers, etc. I have no problem with this concern being raised if this is the case, and even less so if the groups raising it are among the "moderate" Muslim groups said to be cooperating with authorities in promoting the investigation.
In the case of the 18 arrested in connection with the Canadian plot that the RCMP and other agencies foiled in July, it is often said that Muslim groups and individuals were the ones who brought the information to police and pressed them to carry out the investigation, partly because they see themselves as being the first ones likely to be targetted by Islamic fanatics. The presumption of innocence until proof of guilt is established is fundamental to the legal system and philosophy of justice in all Western societies as far as I know.
What a shame that we even have to wonder about the sincerity and good faith of those raising the question. Would that Sharia law, as practiced in many (dare I say "most" of "all") Islamic states, was so enlightened. Much of the motivation for the commplaint may be the typical manipulation of justice history has so often witnessed under sharia law, in which Muslims (and not even all of them) had rights, dhimmis and other non-Muslims did not.
Just a quick correction to the note I made above:
At the end of the first paragraph, I should have said "with such investigations" (in general), since I don't know that there was any assistance from the Islamic community in this case. (Does anybody out there know what is being said about this? I don't recall hearing anything about it). I have the impression that it probably occurs at least some of the time, since it was a factor in the recent situation in Canada.
If things don't change the day is coming when no one will listen to the complaints.
Okay, this is ridiculous.
They moan about Bush's Islamofascist remark.
They moan about the police making raids in their community and how it brings FEAR in their hearts.
They moan about the publishing of the SUSPECTS names.
They moan about all the WRONG things.
How about SCREAMING AGAINST WHAT THESE young Muslim terrorists TRIED TO DO?
HOW ABOUT TELLING THE POLICE WHEN YOU SEE THEM MOVE IN NEXT DOOR AND START PLAYING MOSQUE IN THEIR GARAGE OUT BACK?
HOW ABOUT ORGANIZING A HUGE MARCH WHERE YOU HOLD UP SIGNS AGAINST TERRORISM???
They can moan for all the wrong reasons can’t they?
So while ISLAM continuously does horrible things...homicide bombings, attempted terrorism, dragging and burning soldiers and contractors bodies, having a party when innocent people die, sawing people’s heads off, etc. THEY do nothing to stop it OR to stand/march against it.
Hey Muslims! WE SEE IT ON THE TV DAY IN AND DAY OUT! HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO FEEL???
HEY MUSLIMS!!! We dislike ISLAM because we see the EVIL it produces. We do not respect you because you do not speak up for the RIGHT reasons.
Here’s a suggestion…
Speak up or shut up. Clean up your communities or we'll do it for you!
This article posted from the portal Rediff is available from the website:
http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/aug/11guest1.htm
The article is written in wake of the aftermath effects folowing the 7/11 blasts in Mumbai (India) killing about 200 people. The author expounds on what radical Islamic ideology is, and how terrorism affects a society on the long term.
Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal
==================================================
7/11 & after: Understanding terror
Dr Satya Pal Singh | August 11, 2006 | 18:10 IST
The 7/11 serial suburban train blasts in Mumbai have again brought into focus the serious implications of unchecked terrorism.
However, the anger and anguish of the people; the stirrings of intellectuals and the the heightened activity of security forces usually get subdued within a few weeks.
For the past four decades, particularly after the suicide attacks on the US Marine barracks in Beirut in October 1983 in which 241 US Marines died, the international community has been really concerned about the dangers posed by ideological terrorism.
In India, we faced terrorism in Punjab for over a decade, and now encounter the onslaughts of the terror networks in Jammu and Kashmir and other parts of the country almost every day. While most nations are serious about fighting this scourge, and their intelligence and security forces are working overtime -- the sting of terrorism has not been blunted.
Is there a flaw somewhere in our thinking, in our strategy? Are we failing to comprehend the problem in its entirety? What immediate measures can we initiate, and what should be our long-term strategy to contain and curb the hydra-headed monster of terrorism? These are some of the questions I would like to address in this article.
The genesis: The root of terrorism lies in hatred and intolerance. The extreme manifestation of hate reflects in violence and acts of terrorism. And hate, like love, begets and stays in the mind.
'Besides us -?believers, all else are impure, ugly and threat to our existence and enhancement. We only are the right, our beliefs are unassailable and our religion only is revealed and divine. It is our bounden duty to spread it around. Reward is almost instantaneous for martyrs. The paradise (Jannat) and its inmates are waiting for us with their beauties and bounties.' This is the kind of religious rhetoric being used to brainwash Muslim youth.
This dogmatism or fundamentalism leads to fanaticism, extremism and ultimately to terrorism.
The Arab-Israel conflict and the collapse of Soviet Union gave impetus to terrorist organisations allegedly claiming adherence to Islam.
The terror networks: The dragnet of terrorists has spread far and wide. Though it is a global problem, South East Asia is emerging as the hotbed of terrorism. The situation is worse in India, which is a secular nation. The international borders of India are almost seized by anti-national elements who support and sympathise with radicals.
Gujarat, Rajasthan, J&K, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal, Assam and other northeastern states, as well as Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu all suffer from the upsurge of radical ideology.
Some coastal parts of Gujarat and Maharashtra and from Bhatkal in Karnataka to Kanyakumari in Tamil Nadu, in fact the entire western coast is afflicted with this kind of jihadi ideology.
Big cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Chennai, Indore, Ahmedabad are the primary targets. No one knows how many terrorist sleeper cells or modules are operating in our towns and cities.
The major source of spreading terror in India and elsewhere are the preachers of radical ideology. Their members might not be large, but they keep moving from one place to another in different guises and groups.
Jammu and Kashmir, once one of the most peaceful and egalitarian states of India, fell prey to this ideology when the schools and madrassas in the Kashmir valley were subverted and the young boys studying in the institutions were brainwashed in the 1960s and early 1970s. We are harvesting the crop now. The same was the case in Punjab -- the most prosperous state in India.
It happened in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and North Africa. It happened with the Chechens in Russia, the Basques of Spain and this list can easily be lengthened.
The same strategy is being applied to subvert young impressionable minds in our educational institutions because the proponents of terrorism know that students and youngsters are highly energetic and if convinced about a cause, they can even be moulded to conduct suicide attacks.
Because of the revolution in computer and communications technology, the terrorist organisations have no dearth of financiers, contributors, fund-raisers and disgruntled teachers of technology. We all have to realise that there is no place for radical ideology in today's borderless world.
Exploding the myths: There are some myths associated with terrorism and if we are really serious about finding a solution to this problem, we must explode and demolish them.
The first myth is that terrorism is rooted in injustice, frustrations, poverty and social economic backwardness. Scholars and experts, especially Alan Krueger and Jitka Maleckova, have shown that the terrorists are not poor people nor they are from poor societies. Poverty does not cause terrorism and prosperity does not cure it. We all know that Osama bin Laden, the world's most wanted terrorist, is a billionaire.
The study of terrorism in Punjab and J&K in India has also shown the same results. The terrorists come from the places which have a concentration of radical preachers.
The second myth, specially in India, is that the terrorist activities are a reaction to the Gujarat riots and the demolition of the Babri mosque at Ayodhya. Security experts know this is not correct.
The Gujarat riots began on February 28, 2002. But most major acts of terrorism, like the attack on the J&K assembly (October 1, 2001), on Parliament (December 13, 2001), in Poonch district (January 20, 2002) happened before this. Also, in May-July 2000 there was a series of bomb blasts from Hyderabad to Bangalore and Goa.
Similarly, Jalees Ansari, a government doctor, and Salim Ansari, an engineer working at the Mazgaon Docks, Mumbai, were responsible for more than 50 blasts in Mumbai, at gurdwaras, police stations, public places and aboard trains between 1989 and 1990.
There is also a myth that many uneducated and unemployed youth and young men are attracted towards radical ideology or terrorism. This is also not correct as many of the terrorists are highly educated -- doctors, engineers, pilots, management graduates and technologically savvy.
There is also another myth: that more Hindus are being killed in terrorist violence, and Muslims are responsible for it. A look at terrorist victims worldwide show that more Muslims are losing their lives.
No religious or social community can embrace or afford to be a terrorist outfit. The terrorists are a miniscule minority. The administration and more importantly the community has to isolate and starve them of all direct or indirect material, manpower or mental help.
Motive of the terrorists: What hen is the motive of the terrorists? If we look into the minds of some terrorist organisations operating in India and other parts of the globe we will find that some protagonists of terrorism (Laskhar-e-Tayiba, Al Qaeda etc) believe that Islam is the purest religion in the world.
They believe that there is a religious commandment to unite all Muslims under the umbrella of Ummah to transcend national borders and establish Shariah or Muslim rule. The International Islamic Front established in February 1998 by bin Laden expressed its motto as 'To unite Muslims, liberate them from non-believers and aggressively expand Islamic faith.'
Al Qaeda says: 'The manual should be used to train all the Muslim brothers for jihad against India and Hindus. Islamic governments have never and will never be established through peaceful solutions and cooperative councils. They are established as they always have been by pen and gun, by sword and bullet, by tongue and teeth... These young men realised that an Islamic government would never be established except by the bomb and rifle. Islam does not coincide or make a truce with unbelief, but rather confronts it. The confrontation that Islam calls for with these godless and apostate regimes does not know Socratic debates, Platonic ideas nor Aristotelian diplomacy. But it knows the dialogue of bullets, the ideals of assassination, bombing and destruction and the diplomacy of the cannon and machine gun.'
'All the civilisations must clash until Islam is accepted everywhere. Kashmir is nothing more than a gateway to India. Let India bleed by a thousand cuts,' says Lashkar-e-Tayiba chief Hafiz Mohammed Saeed.
The Students Islamic Movement of India, SIMI, manual states its aim as 'To achieve Allah's pleasure through the reconstruction of human life according to the principles given by Allah and his messenger Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.'
'I will invite students and youths to follow Islam and will try to organise them,' goes the oath of allegiance for SIMI members. 'As I promise that I will work for the liberation of humanity and the establishment of an Islamic system in my country. I will spend my time, resources and capacity in this cause and won't spare my life if need be... My prayer and my sacrifices and my life and death are all for Allah... I have been instructed to do so and I am among those who surrender. May Allah help me to keep these promises.'
The Asian Age newspaper (August 19, 2001) published a letter recovered from a fidayeen in an encounter with security forces deployed for the Amarnath Yatra. The letter reads 'We are fidayeen. I am a fidayeen and in the name of Allah we will continue to kill and be killed till such time we destroy India and we overcome India.'
This is the radical ideology which is creating terrorists.
Dr Satya Pal Singh is the Inspector General of Police, Navi Mumbai. He was earlier Joint Commissioner of Police (Crime), Mumbai City, and has dealt extensively with the underworld, terrorism and other serious types of crime. He has written about three dozen articles on extremism, terrorism, economic crimes etc in national and foreign journals.
Next: What steps can we take?
_________
URL for this article:
http://www.rediff.com///news/2006/aug/11guest1.htm
_________
© 2003 rediff.com India Limited. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
The Muslims in the U.S. are also all in a tizzy today that GWB said that our enemy is "Islamic fascism", since that makes it sound like Islam has something to do with the terrorism, when in fact the problem is "extremist groups with no connection to Islam who use Islamic rhetoric to try to build up support".
The Muslims are upset that we name the suspects, they are upset that we notice that the terrorists have one thing in common, they are upset at profiling, they are upset that we are getting suspicious, they're just plain upset.
Apparently the only ones at whom they are not upset are the "few radicals" who are misrepresenting the Religion of Peace®.
I agree with A Plague on Both Houses that that day may come. We're all nervous and frustrated, and for good reason. But I think we have to be careful not to lose our own soul and turn into the very enemy we're are opposing which I think would happen if we lower ourselves to their standards.
Also Henry writes: The credibility of the Koran needs to be attacked, and that evil and stupid book retired to the museum of Voodoo-like savage religions! It's the Koran Stupid - if we attack the brainwashed victims and say nothing about the thing that made them into killer robots we will continue to get NOWHERE!
I certainly understand this rage, but I think anyone who feels this way might get some relief from a site called www.chiesa.espressonline.it (its contents are available in English as well as Italian) and look at the section on Islam. There are a lot of articles on the dangers and threat from Islam in this archive, but a couple that may be of interest regarding the issues that Henry and A Plague ... raise are the following: "The Virgins and the Grapes: the Christian Origins of the Koran", "A Peaceful Form of Islam at the Delta of the Ganges", "Worldwide Islam Has an Oasis of Democracy: Mali" and "The Other Islam: the Peaceful Revolution of the Ismaili Shiites"
Needless to say, the proposal to "outlaw" Islam would meet some resistance throughout the world. A more realistic hope would be for governments, NGO's and religious institutions to help create conditions that prompt Islam to reform itself along the lines suggested in these articles and similar writings.
I think its important to bear in mind the words of Abraham Lincoln when one of his cabinet aides told him that he must be more forceful, that he must destroy his enemies. He replied: "And do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?"
Obviously this is impossible when it comes to terrorists. All we can do is punish them with the full force of every law we have. But there are much more peaceful currents in Islam as well that we can have a much better future with but they need our help.
Turkish lawyer admits killing secularist judge
NEED TO CALM YOUNG MUSLIM HOTHEADS, SAYS UK COMMUNITY LEADER
Ummah News Links
Would it be possible to detect, using data mining, that an unusual number of Muslims (based on name?) from particular region are traveling by plane to a variety of locations on the same day?
Would it be possible to reduce the false-positives (false alarms) to a manageable amount?
It also appears than any recent convert to Islam in Britain must become a 'person of interest' to the authorities.
Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal, the article (by Satya Pal Singh) you posted from rediff, though somewhat better than the usual tripe that passes as journalism within the mainstream English-media in India, still makes the error in insisting on a dichotomy between mainstream Islam and the 'radical' Islam, when in fact there is none. I also don't agree with his statement that muslims have killed more fellow muslims than Hindus/Sikhs/Christians. I don't think that statement is true even within the last decade... not to mention the fact that muslims butchered 100s of millions of Hindus over the past centuries.
Templar wrote:
"Obviously this is impossible when it comes to terrorists. All we can do is punish them with the full force of every law we have. But there are much more peaceful currents in Islam as well that we can have a much better future with but they need our help."
The above is precisely why Islamic terrorism thrives, and shall continue to do so, when we read the presumptuous optimism from the somnolent peaceniks, that run thus:
"...more peaceful currents in Islam as well ..."
Razdan, can you please forgive the errors in judgement of Satya Pal Singh, in view of what has been identified in bold ?.
Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal
Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal
If I was "somnolent" as you put it, I obviously wouldn't be bothering to write any of this. I can think of a lot of other things I'd rather be doing right now. But like you, I think these are important matters.
So tell me. What is your solution? Do we just proceed immediately to global war against Islam and every Muslim on the planet?
Posted by: Nariz at August 11, 2006 11:59 AM. You wrote:
"...Trying to use guilt on Islam is like trying to use a Phillips screwdriver on a slotted screw. Muslims know nothing of guilt, because Islam is perfect and Muslims are always right."
The above explains the lack of conscious, introspcetion and accountability in Islam. No matter how grave a crime muslims commit, it is condoned, and often, imperitive upon a muslim, per their "book", with an agenda to destroy anything un-islamic.
Any wonder, non-muslims are met with unrelenting hostility and aggression?
The government said that in publishing the names, it was not inferring guilt.
The sad-sack Marxist writer toiling for Reuters who wrote this agitprop piece meant to say implying guilt.
Hey, it's ok to destroy our civilization and consign our children to subjugation and all that, but if you're gonna cash paychecks as a professional writer to see this lofty goal through, could you please at least use proper English on our collective way down to Sharia perfidy?
HEre is the Islamic strategy of hostility and intimidation, aimed at total domination of non-muslims, we can ignore at our own peril:
http://www.republicanandproud.com/warning.htm
The government said that in publishing the names, it was not inferring guilt.
The sad-sack Marxist writer toiling for Reuters who wrote this agitprop piece meant to say implying guilt.
Hey, it's ok to destroy our civilization and consign our children to subjugation and all that, but if you're gonna cash paychecks as a professional writer to see this lofty goal through, dear Mr. or Ms. Agitprop Writer, could you please at least use proper English on our collective way down to Sharia perfidy?
Thank you.
Hey,
Can we criticize the Muslim Jihadists for being politically incorrect?
What a novel idea.
What makes them think their belief system is one that holds water politically? They have no politics. That is why.
When they whine about being whipped by the media, or arrested for plotting and having been infiltrated to the point that there is so much evidence that NOT doing something becomes more dangerous than staying under cover.
PLEEEEEZE. If you jihaddie idiots want to go around plotting to bring down the west, then be big enough boys to take a whippin' when you get one.
What a bunch of adolescent ninnies. Nothing but juvenile delinquents with bigger toys.
We must dismantle their belief system. That is what drives them. Killing them won't work. They already have a couple of generations (like 10+) with this belief system beat into them.
I like the ridicule idea. Find a way to denude them in public, shame them in death. Prevent them from reaching their "heaven". Make martyrdom ugly and abhorrent and eternally black.
No, what they want is for us to ignore the obvious truth about their community and little jihadi progenies!
Posted by: americaningermany at August 11, 2006 03:09 PM
... and that theit murderous 'muslim brothers' get away, to plot, plunder and murder another day.Here is the strategy of Umma Al-Islamia, we can ignore at our own peril: http://www.republicanandproud.com/warning.htm
I've come to the point were frankly I couldn't care less that Muslims are offended by this or that. They are always offended about something, starting with the fact we Infidels are still free to be Infidels so what's the point.
Posted by: Proud Infidel at August 11, 2006 03:58 PM
... exactly Proud Infidel! Their rigid idology has made muslims such brainwashed robots, they can never listen to reason. They deserve the wall they give the non-muslims. Besides, here is what they are have for those who listen to them: http://www.republicanandproud.com/warning.htm
'Since 2000, police have arrested over 700 people -- many of them Muslims -- under tough anti-terrorism laws, but have brought only a handful to court. The vast majority have been released without charge.'
Reuters.
But this is NOT true according to a police spokesman I heard on Radio 4 this afternoon (UK time). While it is true that few of them were charged under the anti-terrorism laws, many of the others were charged under other laws, such as possession of explosives, illegal weapons, etc.
Someone is twisting the facts to make the police look incompetent. I wonder who?
Yes. That would seem to be the only logical solution right now. That is, if we non-muslims still have the will and purpose to survive.
Posted by: americaningermany at August 11, 2006 07:52 PM
If Islam is not addrressed with the same seriousness as nuclear threat, very survival of modern civilization is in danger and time will tell that the above, is not an over-statement.
Once a belief system is identified it is easier to dismantle.
The more we identify and detail the elements of the belief system, it will be easier to manage it and dismantle it.
How does one solve a defect?
Trace to the source of the issue by identifying its elements, and re-program it.
Oh the famous fallback point for Muslims , THE 'innocent until proven guilty mantra' .
If only they would practise that idea of fairness and justice, but no , as soon as the word came out about 19 terrorism related arrests in the UK it was CAIR and other Islamic Org.'s that feared 'Backlash' as if to assume the 19 were indeed Muslims and that all non-Muslims are predisposed to violence as they are.
A thief is usually the first person to accuse others of stealing , and only a violent paranoid intolerant fascist would accuse others of responding with blind ignorance and unfettered hatred .
The fact that Hooper at CAIR focused on 'Backlash' instead of the 1000's of lives save by the execution of the plot being stopped, it speaks volumes about their deafening silence to condemn the actual terrorists and not the usual blanket disdain for 'Acts of violence' .
Mr.Hooper.....we are not as stupid as you so give up the charade and cheap ruses about Islam having nothing to do with all those Muslims killing God's children for Allah's cause , I admit I may be crazy at times but I'm no fool
and stop embarassing yourself , you're far too old to be THAT stupid and you make Islam look like a death-cult started by a psychopathic pedophile.
Posted by: americaningermany at August 11, 2006 07:52 PM
Yes. That would seem to be the only logical solution right now. That is, if we non-muslims still have the will and purpose to survive.
Alert-up-usa agrees.
Among the many problems with this solution are these: it would be a take a very long time to win and victory is far from certain; also several of the powers that would have to be taken on are nuclear armed or soon will be. If these weapons were used (which they probably would)possibly no one would survive in the radioactive rubble that remained. So there'd be little or nothing gained.
I don't say military power shouldn't be part of how we respond to this thing, just as it was when the enemy was communism, but I still think our hand would be stronger if we don't overlook the possibilities I mentioned in my earlier posting.
"Many Muslims accuse the police of unfairly targeting their community in their crackdown on terrorism"
So if the terrorists are almost all Muslims, basing their call to terrorism on their religious beliefs (and religious texts), doesn't it make sense that the Muslim community is the best place to look for them?
If the Muslims want to stop being "unfairly" targeted, perhaps they should renounce the koran and the hadith, stop obeying the call to jihad, stop funding Islamic jihadist groups, and above all, stop trying to blow up non-Muslims.
Posted by: alert-up-usa at August 11, 2006 08:03 PM
Once a belief system is identified it is easier to dismantle.
The more we identify and detail the elements of the belief system, it will be easier to manage it and dismantle it.
How does one solve a defect?
Trace to the source of the issue by identifying its elements, and re-program it.
Forgot to mention it in the post I sent a moment ago, but I agree with this. Makes sense. Start speaking the truth about Islam, detailing its flaws and end the cultural taboo that protects it with the shield of "politness" and "political correctness", start monitoring and controlling the curriculum in Islamic schools and the preaching in mosques, and start being a whole lot more selective about what kind of immigrants enter western countries. Probably also some of the the liberties we extend to Muslims should be made conditional on fair treatment of religous minorities in Islamic countries.
This is by New York comic Dan Naturman:
Compare and Contrast
Partial list of suspects in recent foiled plot to blow up Continental, United and American Airlines aircraft in mid-flight:
Abdula Ahmed Ali
Shazad Khuram Ali
Nabeel Hussain
Umar Islam
Waseem Kayani
Assan Abdullah Khan
Waheed Arafat Khan
Shamin Mohammed Uddin
Waheed Zaman
Amin Asmin Tariq
Partial list of passengers randomly searched on a recent American Airlines flight out of General Edward L. Logan International Airport in Boston:
Mildred E. Sullivan
Brittany Amber Carlton
Keishi Matsamura
Hampton R. Hughes Jr.
Shari Elizabeth Cohen
Anthony Scatturcio
Sir Prescott Yates Woodward
Leanne Honeychurch
Father Thomas Mulhern
Edward L. Logan III
I don't believe we have a choice but to defend ourselves in any way necessary.
I do not believe we can count on dealing with any muslim as being 'moderate'. I don't believe negotiation will be the answer.
Our campaign and response has to be longer term than theirs and one designed to render them impotent by striking at the very heart of their motivation.
Therein lies the problem with "Jihad watchers" and "right wingers", the over eagerness to categorize an idiot or ignoramus as a Marxist.. That writer could well be a Marxist, but you have no proof only a hand waving assertion, which is based on what? Your own ignorance, ill formed opinions and world view?
I started watching "conservative" cable news today, since the invasion of Iraq and virtually all of the "conservatives" (even Oreilly) don't have a clue about Islam, and all of them appear to be reactively concerned about offending Muslims "too much", push them and they apologize, and CAIR and the Arab American committee know that.. the one exception is "crypto libertarian" Tucker Carlson, who will stand up and be counted and call an Islamo fascist an Islamofascist.
Even that clown who publishes Human Events, waffles and equivocates with statements like "I'm not saying that all Muslims are fascists".
Posted by: non-redneck at August 11, 2006 08:46 PM
If the Muslims want to stop being "unfairly" targeted, perhaps they should renounce the koran and the hadith, stop obeying the call to jihad, stop funding Islamic jihadist groups, and above all, stop trying to blow up non-Muslims.
Can someone tell me why it isn't a crime in western countries resulting in major incarceration if not worse to even utter the "call to jihad"? Its an incitement to violence, and sometimes a treasonous one!Promoters of jihad should be deported if possible, or locked up indefinitely. And while in prison, they need not be given the Koran or any religous ministry to nurse their grudges. Its time to reexamine the notion of religious freedom as an "a priori" value. The rights of citizens to live securly trumps the right to be exposed to caustic propaganda even when it is disguised as religion. We need to re-examine some the assumptions about personal freedom we've developed in our liberal democracies.
OT
But the Italian stabbed to death in Jerusalem was a radical-pacifist pro-Palestinian. They thought they were killing a Jew!
Poetic justice.
Islam is dying
Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 11, 2006 04:07 PM
+++++++++++++=
Only after nuclear death blows from the US, England and Israel.
the war of civilizations is underway with islam.
are you prepared, aremd and ready?????????/
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense.
OK, here's how we can eliminate suicide bombings and many other atrocities commonly practiced by the true believers of islam who take to heart chapter 9 verse 5 of the quran, namely to kill all unbelievers: We publicly proclaim that we will take the physical remains of all muslim attackers and we will take those remains and PUBLICLY THEM TO PIGS in some barnyard WITH THE VIDEO CAMERAS ROLLING.
And then we do it.
OOPS, I meant to say publicly FEED them to pigs!
Well, what do Muslims have to say about Islam and Terrorism ? In India, where I originated from, there is a staunch anti-West web-based magazine known as Islamic Voice. There is a gem of an article by Mohammed Hanif Lakdawala and to read it, click here: Terrorism Cannot be Blamed on Islam. What amazes me is the level of scatterbrained logic that passes on as academically authentic in the Islamic community. It appears that the concept of victimhood is a prime motivating factor for the survival of Islam (and hence Muslims).
Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal
Well, what do Muslims have to say about Islam and Terrorism ? Mohammed bin Kafir Abu Jahal
Scarer still are what Americans are starting to say about islam. They have the power to piss us off we have the power to destroy them and thier shiny rock. Unlike them we actually try and get along, first. We do however have limits and they are pushing thier luck.
Somewhat off topic, but this was published in ABC news and greatly surprised me (emphasis mine).
"In these cases and others, the perpetrators had connections that have been unpopular — and uncomfortable — to discuss. Almost all have been practicing Muslims, and many are of Arab or Middle Eastern descent."
From :
"In a Time of Terror, Is It Right to Profile?"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2303488&page=1
non-redneck you just made my point, we b awakein
Ok, may be we are slowly coming around.
Ayn Rand Institute Press Release
http://www.aynrand.org/
U.S. Muslim Group Should Apologize
August 11, 2006
Irvine, CA—Following news of the foiled plot to bomb airlines, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) criticized President Bush for calling the would-be killers "Islamic fascists."
"CAIR is demanding that we evade the actual goal of those trying to kill us," said Dr. Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute. "Just as the Soviet Communists and the Nazis sought to impose their version of socialism on the world, so the new killers seek to impose their version of Islam on the world. They seek total power to enact the dictates of Islam. Theirs is an Islamic totalitarian movement.
"I wish Bush would take his own rhetoric seriously, because understanding this fact about the killers is crucial to achieving victory in the war. Only when the political aspiration of Islam--the imposition of its religious dogmas by force--has been shown to result in the deaths of Islamists, not their victims, will we be safe. Only when the cause of Islamic totalitarianism has been thoroughly discredited, will victory be achieved.
"CAIR's demand that we evade the role of religion in this conflict is undermining America's self-defense. For this, the group should apologize to all Americans."
### ### ###
Copyright © 2006 Ayn Rand® Institute. All rights reserved.
Op-eds, press releases and letters to the editor produced by the Ayn Rand Institute are submitted to hundreds of newspapers, radio stations and Web sites across the United States and abroad, and are made possible thanks to voluntary contributions.
If you would like to help support ARI's efforts, please make an online contribution at http://www.aynrand.org/support.
I started watching "conservative" cable news today, since the invasion of Iraq and virtually all of the "conservatives" (even Oreilly) don't have a clue about Islam, and all of them appear to be reactively concerned about offending Muslims "too much", push them and they apologize, and CAIR and the Arab American committee know that.. the one exception is "crypto libertarian" Tucker Carlson, who will stand up and be counted and call an Islamo fascist an Islamofascist.
Even that clown who publishes Human Events, waffles and equivocates with statements like "I'm not saying that all Muslims are fascists".
Posted by: Nariz at August 11, 2006 08:50 PM
The "conservatives" on Fox are far more grounded in reality than the left-wing morons on CNN, who defend the jihadists and other assorted muslim lunatics. Deny that! Of all the assorted talking heads, "experts", analysts, reporters, and talk-show hosts, Neal Boortz and Michael Savage are the most candid and honest about Islam and muslims. But even they believe that there is a moderate, peaceful version of Islam out there somewhere. Those two come the closest to telling it like it is, and they sure aren't liberals.
My guess would be that people that know what Islam entails, have a better understanding of why Israel fights. Hezbillah uses civilians as cover, Hezbillah kills and captures civilians. Rockets civilians and dance in the streets when they hit babies, women, and anything. Israel on the other hand, drops leaflets saying leave, give aid, and try to induce deplomacy. Hezbillah, continues killing, rockets, randomly killing civilians, claims victory, supports terrorism. Yet claims it is all Israel's fault. I laughed at the last cease fire, which said, no cease fire until all Israeli soldiers left Lebanon, well you have two as captives. So how could you remove all soldiers until the captives are set freed?
My guess would be that people that know what Islam entails, have a better understanding of why Israel fights. Hezbillah uses civilians as cover, Hezbillah kills and captures civilians. Rockets civilians and dance in the streets when they hit babies, women, and anything. Israel on the other hand, drops leaflets saying leave, give aid, and try to induce deplomacy. Hezbillah, continues killing, rockets, randomly killing civilians, claims victory, supports terrorism. Yet claims it is all Israel's fault. I laughed at the last cease fire, which said, no cease fire until all Israeli soldiers left Lebanon, well you have two as captives. So how could you remove all soldiers until the captives are set freed?
Redwine quotes the Ayn Rand Institute as follows:
"CAIR's demand that we evade the role of religion in this conflict is undermining America's self-defense. For this, the group should apologize to all Americans."
Bravo!! But I'd take it at least one step further. Every time a Muslim or an Islamic group demands that someone in the West apologize or swallow a guilt pill for crimes allegedly committed against them by Westerners, turn the tables on them. We've done too much of this sort of thing already, such as for example the late pope, John Paul II's misguided apologies over the crusades (and many other things), and the habit of embarrassment and self-mortification that citizens of liberal democracies are constantly practicing because of our supposedly "elite" or "imperial" position in the world.
They should be apologizing to us at least as much and not just over events in recent years. It can go right back to the brutal Islamic conquest and imposition of all of the repressive measures of dhimmitude that were imposed on the solidly Christian populations of the Middle East and North Africa, the conquest of Spain (714 AD), which yielded the same result for over nearly 750 years, the very near overrunning of France and all of Europe east of the Pyrenees that was only stopped at Tours in 792 AD and the occupation of Sicily and many raids of European cities throughout the 9th century. These occupations often lasted for decades and were marked by horrendous pillaging and violence, and extreme suffering for the European populations. These occurred in Naples, Benevento, Rome and many other places in Italy, and probably elsewhere in Europe that I've forgotten at the moment. As much as Muslims complain about Crusader violence in Arab lands, the Crusades were an entirely justified defensive war in light of this constant pressure on Europe, as well as the appalling conditions Arab Muslims had imposed on the Middle Eastern Christians and the more recently arrived Seljuk Turks' constant aggression against the Christian Byzantine Empire.
So the Islamic world can drop the pretext of being somehow uniquely victimized by Europeans, Americans, or whomever and start apologizing themselves for the many crimes they have committed throughout history. People in the non-Muslim world need to demand this of them whenever any of them they make these kind of ridiculous noises.
But they, meaning Muslims, would say that since they conquered those areas they should be a part of the Muslim nation, and should be returned. Which is a basic comand of controlling the whole world, anything once conquered shall remain conquered or sustain constant jihad until it is. Until further conquests. Which means the whole world basicaly. Imagine If Israel had that attitude. Or us. Islam's only purpose is world dominance, or total defeat. They set the rules, we abide by them.
Bravo Templar well said!
Every time we hear a Muslim complaint about anything we should demand they apologize for all the crimes of Jihad going back to the beginning of the Islamic conquest.
They should apologize or keep their mouths shut!
The time soon approches, when apologies won't be enough, and no amount of taqqiya will prevent an enraged world from putting them behind barb wire!
But they, meaning Muslims, would say that since they conquered those areas they should be a part of the Muslim nation, and should be returned.
Posted by: zooboomafoo at August 12, 2006 01:26 AM
You may be right zooboomafoo. My hope is that the obvious stupidity of demanding apologies for every slight or insult when they have such a blood-soaked history of their own would wear down some of the more reasonable ones and cause them to start questioning some of their certainties. For that matter, how can one account for the behaviour of Allah when despite the purity and truth of Islam he allows lands once conquered in the name of His Ummah to be then lost to the infidel? Its as absurd and ineffective as the claim, made in Islamic theology, that the prophets before Muhammed were given the true revelation, but the dishonesty of the "peoples of the book" who received it caused it to be lost, but that somehow, for no very good reason that I've ever heard them explain, the revelation to Mohammed is secure for all time from this kind of tampering. The whole thing really makes a mockery of the very notion of God and divine revelation. However, the impulse of denial that protects propositions based on faith is strong and there are those who report that this is often the case with Islamic believers. A terrible shame since the only outcome of the current rigidity of Islam may be to make a global war between itself and the non-Muslim world unavoidable. If this happens, it will be a disaster for both sides.
This is a great interview with Carolyn Glick giving her analysis of the present situation in Israel & Lebonon and her criticism of the cease-fire. About 40 minutes.
http://politicscentral.com/2006/08/03/will_lebanon_be_the_next_iran.php
Speak out againts radical islam, good and moderant Moslims.Weed out all who seek to tarnish your faith and bring unjust mayhem to the innocent. You cannot be taken seriously if you don't.
Let the Jihadis make as much ugly noise as they want. In doing so, they show their true and ugly face for the entire world to see. In doing so, they turn more public opinion AGAINST them as for them.
By their deeds you shall know them....
This is hilarious! Jumping into conclusions?!! Goodness! When Hindus start harboring terrorrists, people will keep and eye on them. When Jews start bombing subways, we will keep and eye on their activities. When Christians start making martyredom videos, and preaching in their churches to "destroy the infidel" , we WILL call them to answer.
Why should Muslims be exempt from critical analysis, if the overwhelming majority of terrorrists attacks against Western nations are done by Muhammadans? It's only logical to keep an eye on the group which, based on evidence, seems more prone to generate groups and people with suicide mentality.
Sometimes it puzzles me why the media and the various western govts. seem to be ignoring the threat from Welsh Presbyterians, Hmong Buddhists,Bulgarian Orthodox nuns and the sinister International Order of Odd Fellows (not to mention the Moose, Elks, et al.!). Perhaps by concentrating on Muslims, we're missing the subtle dangers these other groups present.
Wasn't it members of the Sodality of Our Lady who blew up the barracks in Beirout? How about the Irish American Genealogical Society's plot to destroy the Brooklyn bridge? Have we checked into the likelihood that the members of the Luther League have been buying up thousands of cell phones for their dastardly aims?
No wonder the poor Moslems are upset and feel victimized!
www.chiesa.espressonline.it
Why should Muslims be exempt from critical analysis, if the overwhelming majority of terrorrists attacks against Western nations are done by Muhammadans? It's only logical to keep an eye on the group which, based on evidence, seems more prone to generate groups and people with suicide mentality.
Posted by: Crusader at August 12, 2006 09:43 AM
Well said, Crusader. Thank you. Pretty much what I've been saying as well. I also think we need better laws and better law enforcement to use against them. I'm convinced that this means we have to end the reflexive assumption that people must be free to practice any religion whatsoever. When there's an obvious threat to public safety from the activities of a religious group, or even a theological proposition or an article of faith, government officials have every right to demand that religious leaders set it aside.
I was criticized for saying so yesterday, but I think we should use not only this stick, but a carrot to entice Moslems who are, or claim to be, moderate and sensible. The link I’ve posted here is to a site that offers some insight into one of the ideological weapons that I think needs to be used against Islamic militancy, specifically, the defeat of this crazy fundamentalist notion of the Koran as something directly descended from heaven, and its replacement by a more historically accurate understanding of the Koran and its origins. If the more pessimistic out there are right in suggesting that "there's no such thing as 'moderate' Islam" and "Islam can't reform", testing the limits of academic freedom in the Islamic world and its ability to undergo reform and liberalization in general is the way to find out.
What I have in mind is that we make sure that Islamic states such as Mali, which seems by all accounts to be democratic, peaceful, tolerant and multicultural, have good relations with the West, are protected by it and benefit from Western trade and investment. And the most important key of all is to make all of this conditional on the clear and verifiable practice of academic freedom in the educational systems of these places. The Koran must be brought under the same methods of critical scholarship that the Bible has been subjected to in the last hundred years, and its inconsistencies, mistakes and conundrums exposed. Those out there who are interested will find the work of one Christophe Luxembourg, a scholar of ancient languages, of interest. It's recounted in an interview contained in an article posted by the editor of the website I‘ve posted. His starting point was the assumption that since there was no written Arabic at the time of Mohammed, it would be helpful to examine some of the more mysterious passages of the Koran by translating them from Syriac, a form of Aramaic closely related to Arabic and see what turned up. His findings are absolutely amazing and for the first time they render passages of the Koran that are otherwise incomprehensible into statements that make sense.
The upshot of all of it is that the Koran, appears to have been built on the foundation of a Syriac Christian text that dealt with things like prayer, asceticism and liturgical worship. From what I've read subsequently this appears to have been the work known as "The Hymns of Paradise" by St. Ephrem the Syrian, a 4th century Christian monk. In any case, according to Luxembourg this provided Mohammed's inspiration in the period prior to the flight to Medina. The violent and repressive elements were added when the book was expanded during its translation into Arabic some time later by jurists and theologians bent on an agenda of Arabic nationalism and expansionism that used it as the basis for an entirely new religion, something Mohammed himself had not initially envisioned. This research not only sheds light on passages that are otherwise completely impenetrable, such as this one, which in practice is presumed to describe the Hijab (veil): "They should beat their khumurs about their bags". When Syriac is used for the translation instead of Arabic, the opaqueness of the translation is eliminated and it becomes: "They should tie their belts around their waste". This is unmistakably Christian imagery. The belt is a symbol of chastity (for both men and women incidentally). Obviously, this sheds not only a different light on the Koran, but on the whole field of the origins of Islam.
Anyone who wants to read more about Luxembourg's work can find it described in the interview at the chiesa website. He discusses, among other things, several of the mistranslated passages of the Koran. It's in the English language pages of this Italian website. Look for the article called "The Virgins and Grapes: the Christian Origins of the Koran" in the section on Islam. This kind of research is going to have to be considered seriously by Islamic scholars, and the ability of academics to objectively discuss it, and any other sensible interpretations of the Koran (and all other “taboo” topics) in their classes and lectures at universities in the Islamic world without having to withstand threats, intimidations or prosecution, as well as everything else related to human rights ought to be one of the most important measures of the worthiness even of places like Mali for Western trade, aid and investment. This applies even more so to groups like the Palestinians, and should be a strict condition for the establishment of any Palestinian state.
If the Ummah can not come to terms with this kind of critical analysis in relation to the Koran, just as Jewry and Christendom have had to do in relation to the Bible, I don’t see how it can ever transcend the naïve, closed-minded cult of its text as “the only true word of God that must be obeyed literally and unquestioningly” and the resulting chauvinism of the Ummah that’s caused the current terrorist problems. There are scholars in the Islamic world who have been open to Luxembourg’s work, or at least his methodology. I think its important for Western powers to make it clear and obvious to Muslims worldwide that their best interests are served by embracing democracy and pluralism. Keep in mind that most Islamic violence is committed against Muslims, a fact they often point out themselves, and this should make them eager to find ways out of the current problems as well. The hawks out there seem eager to mix it up with Islam right now in a world war. This level of anger is understandable, but we should not go that route without trying to defuse the problem peacefully. Promoting reform in the Islamic world, or at least testing these waters is something Western nations have to try, as well as cracking down much harder on militant forms of Islam with much tougher laws and penalties, and in the meantime preparations for war can be built and maintained if need be as during the Cold War. War may be inevitable in any event, but its worth avoiding if possible, and if we don’t try peaceful solutions first, we may end up just as guilty of mass murder as the vile Islamic terrorists, and the physical costs of the war also may be staggering.
Sorry everyone. I tried to provide the link to the website discussed in my last posting, but as you can see I didn't succeed. Still learning my way around the blogosphere. If anyone can advise me I'd appreciate it. Anyway, url at least is provided for any interested.
Sorry everyone. I tried to provide the link to the website discussed in my last posting, but as you can see I didn't succeed. Still learning my way around the blogosphere. If anyone can advise me I'd appreciate it. Anyway, the url at least is provided for any who are interested.
Americaningermany, my above post was meant as gross sarcasm, pointing out the insanity of the Islamists' claim to victimization.
And no I am not an illegal alien. Family has been here since the 1630's and my most recent immiogrant ancestors were Irish immigrants in the 1860's.
"Sansantiago" refers to a Hispanic icon that depicts Santiago (St. James) crushing the heads of Saracens with his horse. This vision appeared in the sky over Spain when the Christians drove the Moors out. One can find the image on votive candles sold in most Mexican groceries. I try to keep one burning at home at all times - a silent prayer.