A superb piece by Melanie Phillips in NR:
When America was attacked on 9/11 by Islamic jihadis, it was said that this was a doomsday wake-up call for the West. Within a short while, however, much of Britain decided that 9/11 was actually America’s fault and that Israel was at the core of the problem.When Britain was attacked last year on 7/7 by Islamic jihadis, it was said that this was a doomsday wake-up call for the U.K. Within a short time, however, much of the country decided that it was Britain’s own fault on account of “Islamophobia” and the war in Iraq.
Now 25 British Muslims have been arrested for an alleged plot to blast up to ten trans-Atlantic airliners out of the sky. This vast alleged conspiracy, thought to encompass many dozens more plotters from Germany to Pakistan, bears all the monstrous hallmarks of a classic al Qaeda operation. In addition, security sources say that dozens more al Qaeda-linked terrorist cells are at large in the U.K.
From the evidence of one opinion poll this week, the British public has at least woken up to the fact that we are in the throes of a world war. Not so, however, the British establishment and chattering classes. Denial is no longer a river in Egypt but a British pathology.
Read it all.
This is what is permitted in Britain these days.
Here's a video of Azzam Tamimi(previously heard before on another thread) ranting in Trafalgar Square.Unbelievable that these people are allowed to speak there at all and equally appalling that they are not arrested for inciting racial hatred and murder.
Notice the presence of the Neturai Karta, the ultra-orthodox Jewish cult who are extreme anti-Zionists and regularly meet up with Hamas,Hezbollah and the President of Iran.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh6q02J6dJk
I've read Melanie Phillips articles with keen interest in the Daily Mail for a few years now... shes one of these who gets universally condemned for her (in my opinion correct) views.
The British establishment and chattering classes meanwhile seem to be brainwashing themselves ever deeper into their "religeon of peace" comfort zone.
And new on this topic from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/08/21/uk.terror/index.html
Mr Spencer:
Sir, it's only the comfortable elite groups who claim there is no problem. The vast majority of us are aware, and there are plenty like me who do what we can to spread the word further.
We are at war. It's not me telling people we're at war, it's Islam that's doing it. All I, and you, are doing is paying Islam the respect of taking it at its word.
Incidentally, I am NOT Islamophobic. Use of that silly concept displays an ignorance of semantics within the English language. It means fear of Islam. I'm not the slightest bit afraid - bring it on, all you subscribers to that ignorant, primitive, pre-medieval superstitious claptrap.
I've got to go lie down. Something just hit me from watching that BBC Newsnight link earlier:
that man said he had four "women" (I quote)and 54 children. Let me run that by you again in case you think that was a typo.
54 - fifty-four! Fifty four. I'm having real trouble wrapping my head around that.
My thought processes are becoming incoherent. I'll be back later when I've composed myself.
Bring it on.
She is one of the few sane voices in British journalism these days. A welcome antidote to the absurd pro-Islam,anti-American and downright anti-semitic propaganda in the MSM.
Here's her link, which contains some excellent articles.
www.melaniephillips.com
http://reuters.excite.com//article/20060821/2006-08-21T122533Z_01_DEL264502_RTRIDST_0_ODD-INDIA-DIVORCE-DC.html
Sir Henry Morgan~ And what kind of a father do you think he can be with 54 children to look after. Imagine the poverty unless the state is paying for his children's care. Even schools acknowledge that a trained professional can not look after more than 20-25 at a time. How many houses are being supplied to this man and his wives. They certainly are not living in one house. More drain on the system. Multiple houses means a fatherless upbringing for the most part which will lead many to jail time.
Polygamy is not a part of the civilized world for a reason.
It is outlawed and needs to stay outlawed.
"From the evidence of one opinion poll this week, the British public has at least woken up to the fact that we are in the throes of a world war.} -- Melanie Phillips
" it's only the comfortable elite groups who claim there is no problem. The vast majority of us are aware" -- a poster above.
Where is the evidence for this? One measly poll? I have yet to see any actions (mass protests, deluging news networks and government offices with complaints, mass boycotts of products and of airlines, etc.) that would demonstrate the existence of such a majority. Saying it's so don't necessarily make it so.
This putative majority of non-elites who are supposed to be "aware", who are supposed to be angry (or even "furious" as Hugh has said a couple of times) seems more and more to resemble that other apparently mythical majority, the "moderate Muslim".
Not everyone in the West is a pussy.
The vast majority are too busy pursuing 2.4 kids , 2 cars , two sunny holidays a year , keeping up with the Jones'es and not really giving a toss as long as it is not in their backyard.
The selfishness and lack of humanity to each other and our neighbours is
contributing to our demise.
Govt is assisting with the promotion of every minority group and pastime whatever the morality.
It pilories family values and morals replacing them with offences and punishments if you speak up.
The lunatics are running the asylum and who really cares.....seems to be the attitude
Quite pessimistic and cynical I know ....but having mentioned the ongoing situation to many friends and collegues.....I am becoming more despondant ...what will it take before the Majority wake up and stand up ?? Beats Me !!
The continuing appeasement of the British Muslim community by this government, when it should long ago have read them the riot act, is getting disturbing. There was also a decidedly anti-Israeli tone to most of the MSM reporting of the recent fighting. Possibly because multiculturalism has proved quite succcessful inthe UK, people are having trouble realising that Islam is an almost unique fly in the ointment. On the plus side, the overdose of young Muslim males on our screens expressing outrage with everything (foreign policy, wrongful arrests, possible passenger profiling) while forgetting to condemn terrorism is having an effect. Some people are beginning to mention the internment of all Germans and Italians on the Isle of Man at the beginning of World War II as indicating a conceivable route that this country may be forced to go down.If nothing else such talk might encourage the Muslims to express themselves a little less offensively than they are at the moment.
One of the best articles I've read on the subject. Covers it all.
This chasm between ordinary common sense and the prevailing prejudices of the establishment are becoming increasingly known in Europe. The mutiny on a recent British flight says as much.
The establishment can be forced to yield however. If they come to think that their overall grip on policy formulation is at risk because of their insane support for an open border and multiculturalism, then they will jettison those positions, to maintain their overall power.
It's as I said before, every hour of every day that transpires, the muslim is making himself more detested and more suspicious throughout the length and breadth of Europe. And NOTHING the establishment says or does is going to change that. The trajectory is clear, and inexorable. The establishment is fighting a losing rear guard action, and their going to have to give up their multicultural fetish. It's just a matter of time, and just a matter of one insane demand by islamic "leaders" after another.
SURE, they'll be damage done, and many of these muslims will cause vast damage to Europe's wider polity and culture. But they're not going to win.
Contrary to what Melanie Phillips says (and I disagree with her for once), I don't think the UK has woken up to the fact that we're in a war - or if it is - they think its the US and Israelis doing, and worse still, according to another poll, 80% of Brits want us to distance ourselves from the US.
Another great and on the money article by Ms. Phillips. While it's good to see the British public starting to wise up, I'm still very pessimistic about the country's, and Europe's, future. There is too much that needs to change, from the BBC to MPs, in order to resist the Islamization of Europe.
With the Islamization of Britain and the abject dhimmitude of British media and goverment, I find myself wondering, how long will Britain remain the US's best ally? Something better change, and fast.
Television:
You make a good point, but I am right. The problem with it being converted into action is that too many people are just too damned comfortable and want SOMEONE ELSE to do the work and take the risks. It's no different in America, or in the rest of Europe.
But their comfort is now being affected by airport queues, felings of anxiety for their own physical well-being, price of gas, for example, so they are starting to rethink. We'll get there. The Dutch are rethinking, the Danes, on the ground the Brits, the - yes, honest, really - French. How long did it take the Brits to take the Nazi threat seriously? No offence to today's Germans. Then how implacable were we once we did? It's happening again. Slowly, sure, because the dhimmi elites have all the voice, but happening nevertheless.
If only Spartan attitudes towards comfort, affluence, material goods had take hold of the Western psyche, instead of Athenian, it would already have been sorted. How comfortable are you? How nervous about the "authorities". About time everyone got it into their heads that the authorities are our servants, not our masters.
To paraphrase: the future is good. The future is red white and blue (no offence to our European cousins).
I'm getting more optimistic by the day. It's a slog, but we're getting there. Out of little acorns mighty oaks grow.
I think the "Prisoner's Prayer" might be an appropriate motto for us:
Never fear them
Never believe them
Never ask them for anything.
I've described myself in another thread in these pages as a disenchanted Social Democrat, put off with parties like Britain's "Labour" and Canada's "NDP", partly over the mealy-mouthed, dhimmiizing, treasonous politics of the current leadership of so many of these, as well as other things I needn't mention here. I mention this so that, hopefully, I don't come across as some naive, crazy fundamentalist with this but, as a person also with religious convictions as well, and an academic background in theology, I really do think that part of the solution is for the West to re-examine for the West to redevelop its respect for the spiritual/religious traditions and deep insight of its Judeo-Christian heritage, not necesarily in any denominationally allegiant or sectarian way, but at least in a generic sense, in respect to culture and tradition, and an awareness of the historic spiritual roots of these societies' present identities.
This goes alongside the need also for a recovery of respect for ALL of the west's great achievements, religious and secular alike, scientific, technological, artisitic - all of it. Elsewhere, I noted that we should stop swallowing the guilt pill for our very existence because of the faults, and occassional crimes, of some western leaders through the ages. It is NOT disparaging of others to respect oneself!
Even aboriginal cultures have had their dark sides, their villainy and their skeletons in the closet, to say nothing of the many other more developed cultures that the West has historically competed with, and that's putting it mildly. To say this is NOT to disparage these cultures or their wisdom, but to be honest in searching out the truth. Many of these latter, would have put the world in an even worse state than it is now if they had achieved or retained hegemony. So let's start thinking well of ourselves again, and demand LOUDLY AND CLEARLY of our leaders that they do the same, and NOT fall for guilt-inflicted policies of self-destruction.
And yes, it is healthy for cultures to be "multi-cultural" as long as new elements are introduced organically into existing societies, as the newcomers adopt the traditions of the countries they're settling in, or at least develop a healthy and sincere respect for them, and the traditions of the newcomers are given time to be examined, received and incorporated in authentic and meaningful ways by the older more indigenous communities, rather than being forced on them by way of threats and intimidation. That is the way all western cultures have evolved, in normal times, throughout history. Indeed, governments must be made to see that Islam is a special case because it seems innately incapable of this kind of patience or flexibility, and therefore it IS deserving of singling out for restriction. ENOUGH OF PC DENIAL OF THIS PATENTLY OBVIOUS TRUTH!
As far as the stupidity of Islamist claims or western guilt for our policies, it deserves to be pointed out that, while grievances do exist on both sides (or all sides) in all situations where there's violent conflict, and some of theirs are legitimate too, the real root of the conflict of the Middle East is that Islamic or Islamically-influenced societies can not transcend the viseral Islamic rage that the West overtook and surpassed it ideologically to become dominant in the world, since that is the unique perogative of the Umma by decree of Allah. So we will sympathize with their problems and suffering and help them find resolution of them, if they are friendly toward us, but will do so on our terms and in our own good time, after we have convinced them to play like good boys.
By the way, maybe OT, but while I admit to reservations about parties like the BNP based on some of what I've heard about it, I note that it is impossible to fight effectively on many fronts at once so people with "progressive" views may have to temporarily set aside earlier arguments over things like racism, women's rights, environmentalism, the role of the welfare state, and the like, in order to close ranks in society so that we win this thing.
Citizens throughout the West must hound their leaders RELENTLESSLY to abandon this path of self-destruction until they either get it, loud and clear, and get on with it, or are replaced by others who will do the job.
Melanie Phillips is extremely cool. Talks rubbish about the MMR vaccine, mind you, but in all other respects she's right on the money.
A phobia is an irrational fear.
My dislike of spiders is a phobia.
My dislike of wasps is a perfectly sensible reaction to something that can hurt me.
I used to know an old lady whose husband was a German baron from the Rhineland. He was interned on the Isle of Man during the war.
He actually came from a very anti-Nazi family who had sent him to Britain as long ago as the 1920s to keep him safe.
Nevertheless, neither he nor his wife was at all bitter. 'We quite understood why they had to do it,' his wife told me. I'm sure that's how the good people would react.
WSW
Neither the UK, nor US public is aware of the vile that the "Religion of Peace" repersents. Most won't wake up, until it's too late.
From: 3:140
"If you have suffered a defeat, so did your enemy. We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels."
Nuf said -
KnightHawk
Melanie Phillips provides an important voice, and kudos to her for having the courage to tell the truth about the cancer of Islamic extemism that far too many in Britain are afraid to tell. But at the same time, she seems to have a distressing level of contempt for her own contemporary British culture and its freedoms,an unpleasantly puritanical streak a la Oliver Cromwell, and we know how successful he was... Eg., she writes in this piece:
"Many of these young people [radical Islamists]live in a kind of cultural limbo, stranded between the repressive culture of the Asian subcontinent and the debauched and degraded culture of Britain."
Unless she means this to be ironic - "debauched and degraded" from the Islamists' point of view, which I doubt - I have to wonder why she is so upset about Islamic extremism threatening Britain when she has such contempt for what Britain has become and seems unable to focus on what is worth preserving (eg. democracy, fabulous theatre, freedom of speech and religion, glorious beer). In many of her other writings she has fussed and fretted about the sexual mores of young British people (something I believe the older generation have always done from time immemorial), legal abortion, birth control education in the schools, secularism, all those things the Islamists detest as well...
Melanie, I'd rather live in good old debauched and degraded Britain than in the alternative proposed by these fascists, and I hazard to guess so would you too.
This comment made above is very true: "The vast majority are too busy pursuing 2.4 kids, 2 cars, two sunny holidays a year, keeping up with the Jones'es and not really giving a toss as long as it is not in their backyard."
The Ummah is in many ways not really that unified, but most Muslims labor under the delusion that it is and are in general accordingly at least regionally (and in many ways internationally) unified. They are therefore powerful. They have strength in numbers and these numbers contribute to this strength--rather than just working for their own material gain, for holidays, as pointed out above. In contrast, the vast majority of "non-believers" live in ignorance of this unified threat against their very existence. It is every infidel's duty, then, to practice a Dawah of his or her own and without alarming friends or acquiantances or sounding too crazy, to clue them in to what is going on.
"This chasm between ordinary common sense and the prevailing prejudices of the establishment are becoming increasingly known in Europe. The mutiny on a recent British flight says as much."
No it doesn't. One measly mutiny!? There should have been at least dozens of such airlines mutinies by now, in various airports around the West.
It was announced last week that Saudi Arabia is buying 72 Eurofighter Typhoon jets from the UK in a deal worth more than £6bn. Neither New Labour or the Conservatives will clamp down on Muslims in the UK if only for economic reasons though I doubt economics explains the UK's dhimmitude. Perhaps the desire for suicide as suggested by Melanie Phillips, or a death wish. Certainly in Germany it's been reported that since the 1960s each generation has reduced in size by a third due to a failure to have children which does seem symptomatic of the death of a people, in this case white western European people.
72 Eurofighter Typhoons = 6bn = uncle Gordon Brown rubbing his hands.
A Daily Mail readers response to Tamimi's speech:
"These people have freedom of speech, why don't we?"
That says so, so much.
I'd love to work in the aircraft factory preparing those fighters for the saudis.
That proud mahometan papa might want to check DNA on those 54 young 'uns being supported by British taxpayers. My money sez there are at least half a dozen snappers among 'em.
A friend of mine recently got into a conversation at Euston station with a ticket collector. His name turned out to be Mohammed and so she brought up the subject of Islam and began to question the integrity of the Koran, saying that it was full of lies and denigrated Christians. (she is a practising Catholic). He called the British Transport police over and they interrogated her for an hour. She was later charged with 'racially aggravated behaviour and causing public disorder'.
If she had conversed with a Christian member of the station staff and said the Bible was full of lies,and he had called the police over , they woould have just chuckled and said calm down, shake hands and have a nice cup of tea.
All I can say is God help Britain in its hour of need.
There are lists, with names on. Human rights lawyers who aid terrorists. Broadcasters and journalists who prefer lies to the truth. Activists who ignore terrorist atrocities but condemn criticism of the people who murder. And there are the politicians, the elected representatives of the people who don't act for the people.
I must stress that none of these are of Asian origin, none are Muslim, all are of ethnic British origin and white, they don't need to be ethnic, the real enemy does not wear a turban and have a long beard, he sits in an office planning the subjugation of the British people by means of his favourite weapon, the enemy of his enemy.
There are lists, the British people may look compliant, they will stop speaking for fear of being labelled as racists, hatemongers and bigots.
Of course we are by the very fact that we are ethnically British, not Muslims and democratic the worst people in the world. Give a dog a bad name and it will eventually take out the throat of those who he knows are a danger, he just bides his time.
There are lists.
Added, the main enemy is the enemy within, without whom the Jihadists would never have had a chance, these are ultimately responsible for 9/11 and 7/7. The 5th column is excess to requirements, we know who they are that is all I need to say.
A good place to start this is to make sure you've done at least some reading of the works of people like Andrew Bostom ("The Legacy of Jihad
and Bat Ye'or ("The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude: seventh to twentieth century" and others), as well as the Koran. We're dealing with a threat that I am convinced is never going to be eliminated until Islam as such is either eliminated from the face of the earth, or brought under the subjugation and control of the West's victorious armies and security forces, but I think it may be hard to convince people of this who are raised on optimistic assumptions about freedom of religion and liberal notions that violence is exclusively the result of oppression, poverty, class-based or race-based grievances and injustices and so on, as if it were their mothers' milk, unless those arguing this are really well informed and can present a strong case not easily dismissed as emotionalism or hysteria.
"In contrast, the vast majority of "non-believers" live in ignorance of this unified threat against their very existence. It is every infidel's duty, then, to practice a Dawah of his or her own and without alarming friends or acquiantances or sounding too crazy, to clue them in to what is going on.
Posted by: Balkan King at August 21, 2006 03:34 PM
I forgot to include this in my last post, but this is what I was responding to. Well said Balkan King.
From Melanie's article:
"From the evidence of one opinion poll this week, the British public has at least woken up to the fact that we are in the throes of a world war."
One (singular) opinion poll, is this sufficient reason for optimism? Is Melanie reading more into this opinion poll result than is warranted? I think we may be clutching at straws here, like the celebration of the "Malaga Mutiny" yesterday as a sign that the tide is turning.
I still fear that we loyal Jihad watchers may all be afflicted with Cassandra's curse, how many truly believe that public opinion is now turning our way?
I’ve convinced myself that human interaction is done in one of four arenas. They are, in descending order: Trust, Respect, Legal, and Force. The theory has panned out well in the business world. If the person you are interacting with trusts or respects you, it’s not good to hand them a fifty-page contract.
Those who cannot build shacks will not be allowed to tear down cathedrals. Isn't the real threat to the fairness and liberties currently enjoyed in Western democracies, not the West itself?
"A friend of mine recently got into a conversation at Euston station with a ticket collector. His name turned out to be Mohammed and so she brought up the subject of Islam and began to question the integrity of the Koran, saying that it was full of lies and denigrated Christians. (she is a practising Catholic). He called the British Transport police over and they interrogated her for an hour. She was later charged with 'racially aggravated behaviour and causing public disorder'."
I am sorry for what happened to your friend but when talking with those, one have to carry in mind they have been extremely educated on how to play the victim. So your friend rather than pushing on the koran should have said the things that happens daily in the muslim world, which cannot be manipulated.
I recently dealt with a muslim (albeit just a very stupid convert) and of all the things i have mentioned (turkish practicing genocide, pakistans performing honor killings) she couldn't say ANYTHING.
Talking about the koran can be a slimy subject.
Other than that did he have witness. How come that she was charged so quickly with no proof. The discussion between 2 people is very hard to prove unless she was screaming.
How can it be possible?
"For Israel’s fight is the world’s fight. Lose Israel, and the world is lost."
- Melanie Phillips
That's it in a nutshell right there.
Talking about the koran can be a slimy subject.
I am surprised people do. Since The Koran ranks alongside Dianetics I would not even bother. Just stick to The Bible and what it says and refuse to enter into discussion with people who dogmatically recite books like The Koran and Dianetics and Marxist-Leninist tracts as if they were in any wTalking about the koran can be a slimy subject.ay comprable.
Talking about the koran can be a slimy subject.
I am surprised people do. Since The Koran ranks alongside Dianetics I would not even bother. Just stick to The Bible and what it says and refuse to enter into discussion with people who dogmatically recite books like The Koran and Dianetics and Marxist-Leninist tracts as if they were in any way comprable.
Fedup.....she was charged 2 weeks later and there were witnesses.As far as I know she wasn't screaming but was somewhat 'vociferous'.
"The Koran ranks alongside Dianetics I would not even bother [to read or talk about it]"
Posted by: Voyager at August 22, 2006 06:03 AM
Unfortunately, I don't see any other way to unmask all the slippery religious double talk that Islam promotes about everything from the roots of terrorism to the identity of Jesus so that people start to finally "get it".
I live very close to one of the people arrested in the UK. When I say close I mean that I know the man to say hello to. Six months ago he went from wearing traditional islamic dress to dressing in an overtly western style. Naturally, having followed this and other sites I was suspicious of this change in his appearance but when I voiced it I was told I was being racist. So for all of those people who say that the UK is a nation of fools I agree, this is no longer my country, the government is so concerned about not causing offence and losing votes they have allowed terrorists to use our stupid "multicultural" laws against us. I am ashamed of my country and the majority of the blinkered idiots that do not look beyond the surface. It amazes me that since the arrests in Walthamstow the Evening Standard have as a headline "WALTHAMSTOW MUSLIMS: OUR ANGER". Their anger? For what? Well I know what they are up to but convincing the rest of the "sheep" seems more and more difficult.
"I am surprised people do. Since The Koran ranks alongside Dianetics I would not even bother. Just stick to The Bible and what it says and refuse to enter into discussion with people who dogmatically recite books like The Koran and Dianetics and Marxist-Leninist tracts as if they were in any wTalking about the koran can be a slimy subject.ay comprable."
No, forget about the bible. It's pointless to talk about a book when you don't have the books in your hands, unless she knows the bible by memory which I don't think it's possible.
Talking about what happens daily is a FACT. With koran/bible talks they can all say "the bible has violent episodes too" or "it's not written that aisha was really 9" or "at that time it was normal to marry children". It's a nonsense that brings to nothing, unless one is a teological expert and has a wide knowledge of history and philosophy.
There is just SO much material on the muslim intolerance just in the past 100 years worldwide, that there's no need to bring up things that happened 1400 or 2000 years ago.
and again i am sorry for your friend but I think she was being naive with talking in front of strangers (dhimmis) and he probably exaggerated the situation to let her talk loud. He was on a pattern.
"There is just SO much material on the muslim intolerance just in the past 100 years worldwide"
You could shorten that down to 50 years, 20 years, 10 years, 5 years, or even last week.
You cannot really enter in dialogue with them, I try to avoid them, there are predatory Muslims out there who get into arguments with people then use their police, yes, their police not ours, to back them up with their law, again, their law, it's no longer ours.