UK Telegraph vs. The Washington Post on roots of jihad

Anybody seen the article that the 'socialist' newspaper The Observer (Sunday edition of the Guardian.co.uk) ran on Sunday?

Looks like the champagne socialists are even getting sick of the Muslim community moaning and making threats rather than cleaning up their community.

FINALLY, the socialists that march with the Muslims might be 'starting' to get it!

The article was entitled:

Beckett rejects link between foreign policy and terrorism

Here's the link:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1843610,00.html

"Biochemistry student". That phrase certainly sends a chill down the spine.

Yep WAPO, they're poor, uneducated, and leave £121,000 in their wills.

In my opinion, blind faith and acceptance of a sociopathic role model named Mohammed and the incessant brainwashing from birth, the stifling structure of the cult-ure, the constant railing against all other forms of governance and against any life style not conforming to the two accepted by the cult-ure and the prodding to violence by the canonical texts, the friday sermons and the most righteous members of the nation of islam would be the places I'd assign blame first.

Poverty and lack of access to privilege or to a means of improving oneself are not 'good', but these things don't promote violence.
Peer pressure and the expectations and prejudices of those in authority can, especially if this call to violence is condoned and actually encouraged by the words of your god and is modeled in the words and actions of the most esteemed person in your cult-ure...

Will we eventually get to the point where these things are stated casually and in the light of everyday discourse? I think we will. We are getting closer all the time. I keep hearing more and more from all kinds of people and I hear more and more people saying ISLAM is Wrong and ISLAM is the cause and ISLAM is evil, believe it or not.

The day is coming when these ideas will be commonly excepted and seen as a matter of record.

We need to start the ideological jihad in earnest and I think this war machine is beginning to crank up - albeit slowly - like the old steam engines.

Wahington Post......utter drivel.

Lazy, stereotyped, uninformed and completely wrong.

It's amazing how clear your vision is from 3,000 miles away.

Pardon me: today the ideas are excepted... tomorrow they will be accepted

I find it strange how many other ethnic groups have succesfully overcome poverty, discrimination, war and disease, while Muslims can't get their shit together no matter how much foreign aid they receive, no matter how much oil they have, and no matter how much affirmative action, social security and tolerance they receive here in Europe.

Israel started off in the middle of a wasteland right after the Holocaust, surrounded by enemies from all sides, and look where they are now.

They are not poor, believe me. Plenty of money around there if you know where to look for it.
Their brand spanking new bloody mosque cost £2 million+ pounds .......

Discrimination in a highly class-oriented culture.

The post has it right but they do not even know it. Muslims consider themselves above everyone else. Therefore, if they are not treated as the Masters of humanity they have been told they are, well, can you really blame them for kidnapping, molesting, raping, stealing, lying, maiming, murdering and generally behaving like the criminals that they are? C’mon, they have their muslim civil rights don’t you know.

I was listening to G.Gordon Liddy this morning, some expert was on the show talking about the situation with Iran obtaining nukes. Both were wondering what gets into young native born British muslims....duh....it's the qur'an. I wanted to scream at the radio, my Lord, don't these smart guys read anything but the NYT?
I posted that ↑ above on the thread above. I just don't understand why I can get it and all the over-educated just cannot get it into their heads that the qur'an is the source of jihad.

Along the same lines, this passage was in a Philadelphia Daily News editorial the other day:

"Cheney's remarks underscore just how unsophisticated our understanding of terrorism is. We have no more understanding of the global forces at work that lead so many to want to bomb and destroy innocent lives than we did five years ago."

Doesn't stuff like this seem really strange? It's not like they can't know or don't know, I just really would love to know what's at work in editors' meetings. Maybe they took the "blue pill"?

It's the same line of thought that having, for example Peter Jennings on 9/11 say the "religion of peace" bit. You better believe that if a guy wearing a suicide vest screamed "Christ is King", the media would be calling on all denominations of Christianity for apologies and statements renouncing that behavior.

The Washington Post article is what journalists sometimes call an "evergreen." It is a standard, stereotypical analysis that can be pulled out the file cabinet at a moment's notice and inserted into whatever conflict the reporter is trying to explain. It fills up the space, it meets the deadline, and few editors question it because it comports so closely to conventional wisdom.

The neo-Marxist mind will tend to view a demented Muslim's anger as something that must be the result of economic oppression. It has to be so for them. They believe that.

Marxists view economics as a zero sum game in which those who become wealthy must be taking wealth away from others and making the "others" angry. (They don't readily see that a place like Singapore (once very poor) has become wealthy by making computer parts, by making a products that causes their customer's businesses' to be more efficent, that causes their customers to become wealthy.) They cannot see that there are other reasons (dogmatic religious beliefs, e.g.) that make people angry.

Most of the neo-Marxists cannot fathom that well-off Muslims from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere kill Infidels in Britian, in Darfur, in Israel, in India, etc. because of Islamic-Fascism.

The neo-Marxist mind will tend to view a demented Muslim's anger as something that must be the result of economic oppression. It has to be so for them. They believe that.

Marxists view economics as a zero sum game in which those who become wealthy must be taking wealth away from others and making the "others" angry. (They don't readily see that a place like Singapore (once very poor) has become wealthy by making computer parts, by making a products that causes their customer's businesses' to be more efficent, that causes their customers to become wealthy.) They cannot see that there are other reasons (dogmatic religious beliefs, e.g.) that make people angry.

Most of the neo-Marxists cannot fathom that well-off Muslims from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere kill Infidels in Britian, in Darfur, in Israel, in India, etc. because of Islamic-Fascism.

The typical pc approach regards criminals as economic victims driven to desperate measures. Some journalists have an agenda, others are merely stupid or lazy. Whatever the motive, chalk up another victory for our most sacred of sacred cows, multiculturalism.

Leave it to the Washington Post to recycle what now seems to be the most tired myth on Earth: that poor, down-trodden Muslims reluctantly decide to become jihadist warriors in a last-ditch effort to reclaim their supposedly lost rights! Give me a break somebody!!!!!! Or, better yet, GAG ME WITH A SPOON (with apologies to our poster Lili who considers the use of capital letters to be 'yelling' on-line).

Holy g*d, what is it going to take to get reporters for 'liberal' papers such as the Washington Post to get through their numb and extra-thick skulls that there are poor people EVERYWHERE--but not only poor Muslims, but impoverished secularists, atheists, Irish Catholics, Jews (yes, there ARE impoverished Jews too not that the Middle Easterners wants anyone to know that), etc. Yet almost none of these poor other people pick up deadly weapons and target members of other ethnicities and religious sects for murder as a result of their economic problems (at least not with anything remotely like the regularity that Muslims do). For most people, hardship on one's account does not translate into lethal acts of violence against others.

No one gives a free pass to non-Muslim ethnicities to commit mayhem, murder, and violent crimes, whether they are poor or not--they pay for committing crimes. Therefore, Muslims MUST ABSOLUTELY be held accountable under the law for all of their violent acts, in the same way that everyone else is. There are absolutely NO acceptable 'excuses' of any kind for Islamic-perpetrated jihadist violence (not even poverty). End of story.

The Washington Post is actually taking the role of a jihad-enabler by printing and circulating articles like the one mentioned here. What a worthless rag it is if its reporters cannot understand this! Enough is enough of this nonsense!!! No more liberal media jihad-enabling through the peddling of lame excuses!!!!!

In one of Europe's largest Muslim communities, young men face a lack of jobs, poor educational achievement and discrimination in a highly class-oriented culture.

I know that Robert and Hugh are no fans of Wikipedia, but even they have their standards. In Wikipedia, if someone makes such a biased and point-of-view statement, "Citation Needed" is applied. If the Washington Post wants to make such a claim, that poverty is somehow linked to Islamic violence, then they should have to provide some proof. Otherwise they are just editorializing out of their rectal cavity. The quote above is just a literary passing of wind.

It's bad enough when the MSM doesn't report what is going on, but it's inexcusable when they start manufacturing the news out of whole cloth.

Special guest-

I know a Filipino guy who uses the words "brain fart" when he sees or hears nonsense. You are saying the same thing that he would say.-LOL

from above

In one of Europe's largest Muslim communities, young men face a lack of jobs, poor educational achievement and discrimination in a highly class-oriented culture.

The only job they want is destuction of Israel and the Infidels. The only thing they want to learn is the Qur'an. And the discrimination exists because they are violent, and have proven they are not worthy to become involved in a world society of free people. They have proven they do not want to contribute.

Another article in Washington post :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/13/AR2006081300720.html

//"Of course I'm angry. I'm 52 years old, and I grew up in a Bombay of friendship and compassion. That's gone now," said Abdul Majid, who owns a small construction company. "We are all against terrorism, but how are terrorists born? If you torture people and deny them jobs and education long enough, you create terrorists."//

Does that mean the Moderate Indian muslims tacitly support terrorism ?

The writer of the Post article, the Editors and all Washington Post editorial writers will be among the first beheaded by the Jihadists because they are Liberals. They are NOT Intelligent Enough to understand that. Of course, there are NO survival related INTELLIGENT Liberals in existence anyway, so this is Nothing New.

Ahmedinejad-Civil Engineer; Bin Ladens-Construction Magnates; Atta-Civil Engineer;
Bin Laden's Egyptian Buddy-Doctor

I don't see the correlation between education and the ability to assimilate into the modern world.

americaningermany-

I never heard that one, but that is very descriptive and pithy too.

the Washington Pissed's post is cliche'-ridden even beyond this. The description of Britain as being "a highly class-oriented culture" is not only false in itself - a cliche' that is at least two centuries out of date - but totally ridiculous if you think that the vast majority of British Muslim come from the Indian subcontinent, where all religions, certainly including Islam, are dominated by caste ideas. They come to Britain to rid themselves of the burden of caste, and they do, except to the extent where they take it with themselves in such notions as "family honour" or the like. And in fact, Britain is open, eager and willing, to make headway for hard-working and ambitious immigrants, Muslims as much as anyone else. The openings are huge, both in the State sector - take, for instance, the large Muslim presence in the health sector, education, etc. - and in private business. Britain has the most unregulated business environment in Europe, and positively lionizes rags-to-riches stories and self-made businessmen. The Washington Pissed hack must probably have got his idea of Britain from ill-remembered schoolroom memories of Emerson's accounts.

(Just to show how open Britain is to self-made, hard-working immigrants, let me tell you the story of the Patak family. The Pataks were a Hindu clan, led by a patriarch with poor English, who ran an Indian food store. One day, probably thanks to his poor education, old Patak found that he had miswritten an order and ordered one hundred times as much of a certain kind of pickles as he needed. He was staring ruin in the face. But old Patak was damned if he was going to let one error in writing ruin him and his family. He called them all together, got everyone to invent as much as they could, and used those damned pickles as basis to make 99 different kinds of flavours, pickles and pastes. Then he ordered labels in the 99 flavours they had invented. The whole family laboured like steam engines, day and night, for days, but at the end there was an attractive row of varied pickles that filled the shop and caught the eye. They went like hot-cakes. Next thing they knew, the Pataks were setting up a workshop to produce all those flavour pickles; then they started exporting them; soon Patak's was a leading brand even in India and Pakistan; and by the time old Patak died, every member of his family who had taken part in that desperate all-night struggle to make something saleable out of those pickles was a billionaire in pounds, and old Patak was Baron Patak, member of the House of Lord. But he still spoke poor English.

Here is a wonderful story. Any journalist would love it. So why does the Washington Pissed not notice things like this, that are happening in Britain (and even in the rest of Europe) all the time, instead of recycling dead cliches from the Victorian age?

Is that the Washington Post from 2006? Rather a Simpsons-esque view of Britain, cor blimey. Actually there are one or two of the Muslim youf who don't hang around at university, but that's mainly because they are fick mate.
In my university there are 1500 keen Muslims in the Islamic Society, and that is FAR more members than any other society and another lot in the Ahmaddiya Society. In fact the there was a failed policy to get 50% of the youf into university nationally. The BBC did an expose of extremist recruitment at uni, as external groups were recruiting there.
I just don't get where they get the idea Muslims are discriminated against from, except for they have to be able to speak English, and what do you expect really? They get free school education and translators for their parents. Washington Post should do their research first. Uni is more like the Muslim massive.

Washington Post should stop blaming us!

Just because someone has been to University, particularly in Britain where all kinds of mickey mouse degrees are being handed out, and educational standards have dropped catastrophically, does not mean these students are educated.

Paolo

What you say is quite true, but when the family started fighting each other over the millions in the old mans will I think one side of the family were smart enough to get legal aid. In other words the taxpayer picked up the tab for the fight.

"...Peter Jennings on 9/11 say the "religion of peace' bit."
-- from a posting above

Isn't it wonderful that he is not around to cover the war in Lebanon, or anything related to either the "Palestinians" or to Israel or to Islam? One can just imagine.

A Plague on Both Houses:

I couldn't agree with you more. I can think of MANY disadvantaged groups that had to struggle as immigrants, sometimes against situations far more that difficult than the conditions today's immigrant communities from the Islamic world face, and they didn't produce anything like what we're seeing here. Like you say, the problem is ISLAM.

I hope that you're right that the old war machine is starting to come to life, but like you I'm cautiously optimistic.

I've developed a list of some of the measures that I think the "war machine" has to have in its program. I'd be interested in any feedback anyone out there has about them, including suggestions for additions, deletions, etc.

1. Change the very bad laws that allow aggressive Muslims into western countries, and start an aggressive program of deportation of these immigrants whenever there's any serious reason to suspect them of plotting something, of aggressive attitudes, or even of just being too difficult as individuals to integrate into our societies and imbue with our values.

2. Pass restrictions in law against anyone with clear extremist tendencies from holding any public office or position of trust in any profession.

3. Set up sections within the interior or security ministries (such as the Department of Homeland in the U.S. and the Ministry of Public Security in Canada) that are empowered to supervise and surveil every single Islamic institution and community setting, and declare illegal any written propagation or, public proclamation, instruction or teaching of anything that directly counsels or even excuses or tolerates Islamic violence, including even obscure points of Islamic theology if need be, and likewise for any action, ritual or behaviour that does the same, even if it means in practice that the whole Islamic faith and practice of same is, in effect, banned in the Western World. (This kind of minding of the Islamic religion by government is common in the Middle East, so the religous liberty can rest assured that its perfectly sound, not discriminatory at all, just necesary).

4. Cease to rely on oil imported from the Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim country that is known to sponsor terrorism or has a poor human rights rights record, including any unfair treatment of ethnic, racial or religious minorities. (This may be something individuals can do on their own as well).

5. Build good relations and favorable trading arrangements with any Islamic country that is peaceful, moderate, tolerant, inclusive and sensible (there may not be a great many at this point, but Mali is one, and there are apparently areas of India where the Moslems have their heads on straight, and I can offer leads to anyone interested about where to find information about these).

6. Make sure that the measure I recommend in #5 above is tied to all human rights issues, including complete academic freedome in schools and universities for academics and students to discuss, promote and explore without fear of attack, threat or prosecution, any and all new interpretations of Islam, including some of the more recent and startling theories about the surprizing historical origins of the Koran (about which, again, I can provide leads for anyone wanting info).

7. Prepare the military for the war that may (its important to stress MAY here) come in any event, by careful study and development of the tactics of dessert warfare, and development and acquisition of appropriate equipment, and the building of production infrastructure that can quickly be retooled to the war effort when or if hostilities break out.

8. Choke off the supply of terrorist funds and resources. THIS HAS SCARCELY BEEN DONE AT ALL - consider Saudi Arabia and its role in the financing and indoctrination of the Taliban, still fighting in Afghanistan).

I might have added, just to add emphasis to your statement that people are starting to come around, that I myself, even after 9-11 I tried hard - no, bent over backwards I'd say - to remain optimistic that everything could be cleared up without taking any "unfriendly" toward our "Muslim neighbours". But over the last two years or so, with all the repeated bombings and threats, with more and more reading about the degrading conditions of "dhimmitude" (the degrading conditions of non-Moslems and minorities in Muslim countries), its been become more and more clear to me what has to be done. Like an Italian archbishop recently said: "ENOUGH of this turning the other cheek already! OUR DUTY IS TO DEFEND OURSELVES!!!

I meant "unfriendly action" of course

Fred - as I recall it, that was the female half of the family, that was being railroaded out of their legitimate share. Anyway, who cares. All kinds of billionaires use Legal Aid with gay abandon, according to my long collection of Private Eye magazines. (For non-British readers, Private Eye was re-named by the writer Dick Francis as What's Going On Where It Shouldn't. It publishes all the news that the MSM are too cowardly or connected to publish.)

DP111
In my experience, degree standard is high. Muslims are well-educated in Britain. I get the inpression that Muslims are going to runnin' tings round here.

Paolo

I remember now you are right.

templer

Hope you are right but one other talking Heads on television news this morning was rather depressing. None other than the chairman of the Black and Asian Police Association, Superintendent Ali Desi speaking out against the profiling of airline passengers, as it was “Introducing a crime of being Asian and travelling.” The fact that any sane person let alone police officer knows that it is a commonsense action to prevent snarl-ups in airports is of course irrelevant.

For those who were not aware of this gentlemen's career I will give it to you briefly. The son of one of the Shah's police commanders in Tehran he came to Britain as a refugee. I think he got his degree by writing a paper exploring prejudice against minorities in Britain and joined the police as a graduate entry. He has never hesitated to play the race card and on his way up the career ladder has acted as a law unto himself. It was reported that he achieved his last promotion by threatening to take his superiors to the race Relations Board if they did not grant it. According to the British press he was in habit of doing pretty much as he pleased. Regardless of the fact that one of his postings required him to wear police uniform he did not until he was directly ordered to and then he showed his contempt by wearing a Versace belt and cowboy boots with his uniform. This may not sound much but if anyone else in any British uniformed service behaved in this manner his career would be over. He also had a nice arrangement with the owner of an Iranian restaurant to have the (free?) use of a flat above the restaurant where he could take his many girlfriends. To try and get rid of him his superiors monitored his activities for two years to get grounds for dismissal failed, and had to pay him substantial compensation. As one British columnist observed “Had he been a white British born police officer he would do been fired years ago.

Mind you the people who go to university these days-some of them are MORONS. I met one girl who hadn't heard that the World Trade Centre got bombed, and thought 7/7 "won't make any difference" (shame). Its just that the courses are difficult and most of them drop out or do 4 years. Educated though at the end? Perhaps not, maybe you're right DP111.