Bin Laden hanged in effigy outside California mosque -- while counter-protestors shout "racists go home!"

he says:

" think it's crazy," said mosque spokesman Usman Madha. "We have never encouraged extremism."

I do not know that for a fact. They has never denounced extremism either.

We are here in love, we are here for the Muslim people," said Peter Jakes, a member of the United American Committee who was dressed in a black bathrobe to resemble an executioner. "We want to give you some free PR. This is a chance to distance yourself from terror."

You never here how they are distancing themselves from those who provide terror in the name of Islam. You will hear them crying about Islamophobia, American foreign policy, profiling at airports, racism but never what steps they are taking to eliminate Wahabbi idealogy that permeates many of their mosques throughout America. The holding of hands with Christian clergy is equally pathetic.

Islam calls for all non-Muslims to be in an inferior status, if they are tolerated at all. So the Muslims are the racists [or more precisely, advocates of oppressing people of other religions].

Osama bin Laden clearly isn't a terrorist to them , but a hero . I would certainly be angry if someone hanged an effigy of any of my heroes in a public place . Also , you cannot be racist against Islam because it is not a race but an ideology. There are plenty of white people who embrace Islam too , regrettably , but it is the doctrines we object to , not the participants of any particular racial group .

When I first heard of this event I was hoping muslims would join the protest and confirm the high-jack theory in regards to their beautiful peaceful religion. Oh well, that'll teach me. War it is...

exsgtbrown,

Wasn't it the same mosque the same mosque that had two of the 19 airplane hijackers?

I am commanded by the cries and screams of the blood of the TRUE martyrs who died on that horrible black Tuesday, 5 years ago today to ask this question.

"I think it's crazy," said mosque spokesman Usman Madha. "We have never encouraged extremism.

Apparently Usman and gang are not reciting the Koran:

The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.
--- God's extreme commandment to murder in Koran 5:33

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

And just as apparent is that Usman and gang are not studying the Hadiths:

Ali burnt some [former Muslims alive] and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don’t punish with Allah’s Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him' ."
--- Mohammed's extreme command to murder in Bukhari Vol 4:Book 52:Number 260

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

And Usman and the gang are not studying the sacaralized history of Mohammed, either:

The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, "Torture him until you root out and extract what he has." So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.
--- Mohammed's extreme command to chest-campfire and decapitate in Tabari 8:122

It is wiser to judge people by their action rather than their words.

We hear the words of Islam and we see their actions.

Deport Muslims NOW!!

everyone should get a grip. Is one of the legacies of 9/11 the fact that we have now adopted the same mob mentality of the Arab mass that we ridicule as we watch them burn the stars and stripes? Surely we are claiming to be better than the uneducated / unreformed Radical Muslim mobs that call for the death of things we value.
We are rapidly joining the Muslims in the lowest common denominator.
The vacuum between our politicians stating Islam is a religion of peace, and the haters on this site that would deport / exterminate all Muslims in the west is being filled by a mob mentality.
We are the best informed Judaeo-Christian people in the west. We understand better than most the Koranic links between their scriptures and their actions. We need to prove this to the general public. BUT, we have no plan to deal with the 6 million Muslims in the US...this surely is the value of this site. We must develop a workable strategy that the Judaeo-Christian population can support.

"I think it's crazy," said mosque spokesman Usman Madha. "We have never encouraged extremism.

Apparently Usman and gang are not reciting the Koran:

The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.
--- God's extreme commandment to murder in Koran 5:33

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

And just as apparent is that Usman and gang are not studying the Hadiths:

Ali burnt some [former Muslims alive] and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don’t punish with Allah’s Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him' ."
--- Mohammed's extreme command to murder in Bukhari Vol 4:Book 52:Number 260

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

And Usman and the gang are not studying the sacaralized history of Mohammed, either:

The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, "Torture him until you root out and extract what he has." So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.
--- Mohammed's extreme command to chest-campfire and decapitate in Tabari 8:122

They seem to have missed an opportunity for free PR.

I hope that when Osama is caught, he will hanged for real.

I'm sure, had I been there, having thrown my shoes, I would have missed old obl, and hit a muslim terrorist standing in front of the mosque. But, would have it been an accident...or intentional? Hmmmm.....

I agree with moderationist, with EVERY terrorist act on our soil, whether it's one terrorist driver or shooter, we should protest in front of the terrorist centers. That lets them know we're on to them.

Also , you cannot be racist against Islam because it is not a race but an ideology.

Posted by: WeatherPermitting at September 11, 2006 07:06 AM

.. a VERY Important point!! Something to remember the next time Jihadists call someone Racist. Thank you, WeatherPermitting.

The silly Muslims and dish it out, but cannot take it.

Whenever the Muslims openly protest, there should be counter protests immediately.

The mainsteam media loves to film the Muslim protests shaking fists, burning flags and carrying banners----why does the mainstream media hate pro freedom protestors??

They may try to reverse the equation and call anti-Jihadists "racists" (while, ironically, Semite Caucasian Arabs encourage or directly engage in the genocide of black Africans in Sudan) but it's not working anymore.

Islam is the only major religion with a well developed theology that mandates violence against unbelievers. A Muslim must believe that every word of the Koran came to Mohammad via Gabriel from God and are the exact words of a perfect eternal book. Hence there is no room for interpretation of God's mandate to kill unbelievers in the Koran. It's a direct order from God.

The Jewish and Christian scriptures (probably the Hindu too) are understood to be communications from God via human instruments and hence are subject to interpretation. The Jewish and Christian religions have a long tradition of interpreting scripture. Jewish and Christian scholars largly consider the violent passages in the Bible (usually old testament scriptures) as being reflective of human fallibility and of a more primitive time in history.

To understand that the Koranic mandate to kill unbelievers is a direct order by God to Muslims is to understand "true Islam". The truth is that Osama Bin Laden practices "true Islam".

While it's not technically racist, I can see their point a little. By choosing that mosaque to hang Bin Laden in effigy, the UAC is associating that mosque and everyone in it with Bin Laden. Many here will feel that every mosque is associated with Bin Laden, but I would be more comfortable with this stunt (and that is what this is) if they were offering solid evidence that this mosque supported Bin Laden.

If I was there, I would have brought along a Mohammad effigy and burned that, too. After all, why single out Bin Laden, he is just the messenger of Mohammad. Mohammad wrote the book, burn him in effigy, as well. In fact, burn him first.

I think it's great that NOT ONLY can the advocates of a hateful murderous religion protest and burn things, which they always do, but the opponents of such a theological monstrosity can go out there and show emotion as well. It's nice when decent people show emotion for a change. Why should only the theocratic, women-stoning mobs show emotion? It's about time patriotic Americans start showing a little backbone of their own.

Well done. More of this. Much more.

We need to protest long and loud everyday, every mosque should have to deal with these protests. Let them know we won't go quietly into the night. Let them know that evil is not the only force that can light a match. WW II proved that.

Great point Frank. And if the koran is the word of allah, science has proven allah is a falsehood. The world isn't flat, nor does the sun set in a mud puddle. And I still can't believe those people drink camel urine. So if a muslim truly believes in the koran, he is a stupid idiot. If he doesn't believe in the stupid sayings he would have to be an apostate, since they aren't supposed to pick and choose what they believe in. And yet, they choose the parts to kill unbelievers and Jews. And the parts that say to jihad.....

Do they embrace fundementalism?

freewoman-

For good hearted Muslims the facts I note above have to be a nightmare. They know that Osama Bin Laden is right when he says that Muslims who do not kill the unbeliever are not true Muslims.

There are many non-Muslims who simply do not want to believe that "true Islam" mandates that those who do not submit to Islam must be killed. However, it's a direct order from God via Gabriel to Mohammad. No amount of deception or self-deception will change that fact.

"we have no plan to deal with the 6 million Muslims in the US..."
-- from a posting above

Why is Muslim propaganda, the inflated numbers that go with that false mantra about "the world's fastest-growing religion" repeated here? There are not 6 million Muslims in this country. There are about 3 million, 2 million of which belong to the sect of Black Islams, correctly regarded as unorthodox in many of their practices, and some of whose disaffected members have left the sect and reported on it. One wonders whether it will survive successfully beyond the charismatic Farrakhan, or whether, if black ministers, aided by the government or foundations, produce the evidence about slavery in Islam, both as permanent doctrine and as permanent practice (and the Arab slave trade in Black Africa started before, and ended -- where it did end -- much later, than anywhere else, and retains its legitimacy to this day). The Arabs have received nearly ten trillion dollars in oil and gas revenues, money they did nothing to deserve. They should be asked, repeatedly, to make amends, and since there are so few blacks alive in the Arab states to be given any share of the national, that is, oil wealth -- the amends cannot be made internally through government programs, but must be made by the transfer of wealth from the Arabs to black states and black populations. Let this become a demand made on the rich Arabs, a demand echoed within the Western world by black leaders. It will focus attention, and should, on the historical record that the Arabs choose to ignore, even as they present themselves, so falsely, as members of the "Third World" (at a certain point the vast sums taken in by the Saudis, Kuwaitis, and others, and the behavior of the Arabs toward non-Muslim blacks, or even non-Arab Muslims, in Africa, including the slow-motion mass-murder in the southern Sudan and Darfur of more than 2 million black Africans, ought to have an effect. But only if it is made an issue, and related to the thousand years and more of Arab slavers in Africa, engaging in "The Hideous Trade."

In the same way, cunning campaigns of Da'wa have targetted black prisoners, a captive audience in every sense, who are ripped out of their own cultural context and history (the Black Church, with everything about it -- all of which, including the music, has nothing similar in Islam), and they are imperilled still further, distanced still further, from American life and from possible futures when they are signed up for the Army of Islam, and condemned to work not for the advancement of themselves or others, but only for the goal of ensuring that in this country, as in all the other Infidel lands that indifferently make up the Bilad al-kufr, that someday Islam dominates, and Muslims rule. But the Muslims who rule will not, in the Arab view, be black -- they will, of course, be Arab.

In any case, of the one million Muslims of the orthodox, Arab or Pakistani kind, how many can swear allegiance -- and mean it -- to the Constitution of the United States? How many can swear allegiance -- and mean it -- to individual rights, as enshrined in the Bill of Rights, with the same kind of full-throated ease as other immigrants, Hindus and Buddhists and Confucians and all kinds of bearers of what might be called alien creeds, but unlike Islam, not creeds both alien and hostile? How many will be truthful about the contents of Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, because any attempt to continue to mislead Infidels on this matter itself constitutes a dangerous form of war or Jihad -- the kind that Muhammad was referrring to when he said that "War is Deception." Any further participaion in taqiyya-and-tu-quoque, denial of the clear texts and the meaning that any apostate can tell you is derived from those texts, is an act of Jihad, and should be interpreted as such by intelligent and knowledgeable Infidels.

The organizers rightly wished to make a point. And the point was this: by holding the event near a mosque, and inviting its members, who have been so ostentatious in their supposed abhorrence of terrorism which "has nothing to do with Islam" and is practiced only by those who have "so cruelly hijacked our religion" etc. etc. to participate, to show how appalled they too are by this hijacker-of-a-great-religion, they put them to the test.

The test was held. The members of the mosque failed. They did not participate. They did not approve. They were appalled, rather, at the sight of an effigy of the mass-murderer Bin Laden, the one who takes as his guide the texts of Islam, and who has no need for any Islamic apocrypha or made-up passages to guide him, or any of his many followers, collaborators, and tens of millions of admirers, and hundreds of millions of defenders.

Test #5,836. In a continuing series. So far, every single attempt to offer Muslims ways to demonstrate their real hatred, as opposed to sly and ambiguous words ("we oppose the killing of 'innocent' civlians") whose ambiguity their media interviewers constantly overlook, and certainly never try to clear up, just as those interviewers never demonstrate the slightest familiarity with Qur'an and Hadith (indeed, one wonders what the words "Hadith" and "Sira" mean to the members of the American press, radio, television. Anything? Nothing? Whatever Muslims tell them they mean?).

And Now the "FREE" Media will say that it was against the Rules & Minority appeasement and the effigy must not be hanged there??

Why the muslims felt offended when the Bin Laden effigy was hanged?? Didn't Bin Laden order to Kill & Destroy America? Didn't he ordered the massacre of 3000 innocents, Didn't he order to Kill Americans found anywhere in the World.

So the 70 odd Muslims who gathered were not Americans they were Talebans"

I SAY HANG THEM AS TRAITORS.

Perhaps it's the moderates who are trying to hijack Islam from the radicals. The moderates are the radicals and the radicals are the moderates. There really is no room for peace in Islam until Islam rules the world.

Kind hearted Muslims know that the proposition "Islam is a religion of peace" is not true for the unbeliever. In the Koran God says: kill the unbeliever. It's a direct order.

Hugh-

I now understand "'innocent' civilians" are only those who are believers. Non-Muslims are not "innocent civilians". As per God's direct order in the Koran: unbelievers must be killed. They are not innocent.

FRANK,

There is no such "SPECIES" called "KIND HEARTED MUSLIM" In Islam the GOLDEN RULE is to Believe BLINDLY NO Q&A!!

So its hard to find such species

RELIGION OF PEACE HUH IT RELIGION OF PIECE?

A few points to ponder:

1-When president Bush is hanged in effigy in,say, Pakistan or Syria by Islamic protesters, there are no counter-protestors. They would not be allowed.

2-In other countries (Saudi Arabia, Yemen) churches aren't even allowed.

3-If someone from a church in those countries would dare to counter-protest against even a mild Islamic aggression, that church would be burned.

4-The opinion of counter-protestors would not even make it to the news.

5-In those countries being antichristian, antibuddhist or antihindu would not even be an issue. Everyone is and they don't lose credibility for that matter.

6-Nobody even thought of calling 'racists' those who shot dead people inside a church in Pakistan. That word wouldn't make sense in that context.

With a crowd of about 100 people shouting "Remember 9-11!" and "No more Jihad!" two men on the back of a pickup truck slipped a noose around the neck of a dummy wearing a Bin Laden mask and strung it up, while the crowd pelted the effigy with shoes.

Really? This really happened? Well, I guess I under estimated things this time.

On this issue, I was wrong -- good, I'm glad!

The protest was organized by the United American Committee, a group that says it promotes awareness of internal threats facing America.

Bravo UAC! They really did do it and I was sure that they would not; but they did!

Bravo!

I listened to a brave fellow yesterday who converted from islam to Christianity; his father was an imam and is building mosques in the US. He was disowned by his father and lives under the threat of death.

He told a shocked audience of Christians that allah and Jehovah were not the same entity and every muslim is taught this fact from their youth.

Most in the audience were slacked-jawed; it was news they never heard before especially poor Fr. O'Mally who had been telling his congregation otherwise.

This speaker also believed that islamics should be allowed to worship in the US and are in fact protected by the Constitution.

However, it occurred to me that since one of the major tenets of islam is the establishment of shariah law where ever islam is practiced (according to every version of the koran); is practicing islam in the US really a benign form of worship or is it in reality a form of sedition?

I'm inclined to believe that latter because in every islamic country where their is shariah law (including our so-called 'democracy' in Iraq which now establishes shariah as the law of the land) there is no freedom of worship allowed except for islam.

The speaker argued passionately that if islam were banned in the US, he a muslim, would not have been invited to a Southern Baptist revival meeting which lead to his conversion. He claims that 20,000 muslims a year are converted to Christianity in the US.

Good points perhaps, but nevertheless I can not agree that islam should be freely practiced in the US, and protected under our Constitution as are other forms of religion; unless there are major changes in the very core of the belief system -- and I don't see that happening in the next 10,000 years!

Remembering 9/11/2001 -- lest we ever forget!

We are rapidly joining the Muslims in the lowest common denominator. - albion

The members of the United American Committee were exercising their Constitutional right to free speech. The Arabs at the mosque sought to deny them that right. When Mohammedanism is practiced in this country as dictated by the koran, it is no longer an exercise of freedom of religion or speech. Our God given rights of freedom and liberty, enshrined in the American system, are denied by the belief system of Mohammed.

The Enlightenment was a product of Judeo-Christian culture, and on those principles, our nation was founded. Mohammedanism seeks to roll back human advancement, either 'moderately' or violently, therefore, it must be removed by whatever means required. Burning an effigy is mild. Remember, our country was founded by a mob of radicals!

Jimmy-

Most Muslims are born into the belief system and many are kind hearted people. I have a friend and business college who is an Arab Muslim. He knows where I stand on the matter.

It's very hard for people to reject their belief-systems, especially in Islam. However, OBL is on firm ground when he condemns such Muslims as not being true to Islam.

EXCELLENT !

WELL DONE, United American Committee !

Yelling "racists !" at teh UAC is EXACTLY like yelling "WARMONGER !" at Churchill in the Thirties.

September Eleven.
NEVER FORGIVE
NEVER FORGET

A group of clergy joined hands with some of the mosque's worshippers and stood in a circle in front of the mosque....

These are the traitors who sit in some of the 'christian' (nominal) organisations and preach that allah and Jehovah are the same.

These are the losers who do not know their own bibles - the blind leading the blind into the ditch.

These are the losers that should watch their 'congregation' walk out on them because they preach lies.

People need to know the truth. Even in the 911 movie last night, I noted that they were translating there is no god but god. WHAT A LIE!

They are actually saying that there is no god but Allah. If Allah was not a proper name (rather than the so-called arab word for god), then why do they not use different words for god in the various islamic countries? It is a proper name of the moon god - that's why. We need to wake people up. They're sleep walking.

Why the muslims felt offended when the Bin Laden effigy was hanged??

Posted by: Jimmy at September 11, 2006 09:34 AM

Jimmy, muslims (Bin Laden and others) belong to 'Umma Al-Islamia'. This is the only membership muslims are loyal to. Bin Laden and all muslims are fellow-members of the same cult.

There.. does that answer your question?

The real villain is Muhammad. I make no apologies for stating that he lead a life of evil and has been ever since been conning the gullible and those inclined to evil, murder and war. He should be hung in effigy but Muslims aren't ready for that step. They aren't even ready to join in on the hanging of the Bin Laden effigy.

Bin Ladin is mearly emulating (as the Koran demands) the life of this charlatan. Monkey see, monkey do.

United American Committee did this?

Where do I join?

Would the members of the mosque be suprised that there is a verse and I have saved it by copying and pasting it called the two towers verse.

"That's the Qur'an, Sura 9.111 (the Twin Towers Sura).

9.111 = 9/11/01

009.111
YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. "

Folks, islam really had come out from the depths of HELL, with mo as his false prophet, out to distroy anyone who is not muslim starting with Jews and Christians.

"Most Muslims are born into the belief system and many are kind hearted people. I have a friend and business college who is an Arab Muslim. He knows where I stand on the matter. "

dear frank, he knows where you stand, but the problem is that you will NEVER know where HE stands.

United American Committee did this?

Where do I join?

Posted by: poetcomic1 at September 11, 2006 10:32 AM

Here: http://www.unitedamericancommittee.org/

Alert ,
Your response to my comment is noted . Thank You .

The Goobs ,
You noted that Christan clergy joined with the Muslims in their wretched counter demonstration . And then they wonder why their churches are emptying and claim that America is becoming a 'post Christian' society .
No , it's their OWN lack of faith that became apparent to the congregation , who largely merely go elsewhere to where the true Faith is preached and not just the latest LLL drivel. I certainly would not tolerate a preacher who clearly sides with the country's sworn enemies . Even Jesus said something about there being No Fellowship between the House of God and the House of Satan . (Is there a JW poster out there whose Biblical knowledge is superior to mine who could give the reference ? Clearly these prats are in defiance of it)

WeatherPermitting...I would be willing to bet that these same 'so-called clergy' are into replacement theology..which is why they are so comfy being buddy buddy with Islamists.

Regarding Replacement Theology...

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which SAY THEY ARE JEWS AND ARE NOT, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

AHHHH! So then it makes perfect sense that they could stand beside those who worship a false moon god.

albion wrote,
Surely we are claiming to be better than the uneducated / unreformed Radical Muslim mobs that call for the death of things we value.

We are rapidly joining the Muslims in the lowest common denominator.

The haters on this site that would deport / exterminate all Muslims in the west.

So your plan is… lets all make sure we feel and look “better than them” and as long as we don’t hate those who want to butcher our children everything is hunky dory. How quickly you try to smear unnamed posters on this site. Deportation is a helluva lot different than extermination. They do want to exterminate you and yours, but I doubt you will understand this until it is too late. Even if tomorrow we embraced every barbaric act we could contemplate we would never be able to surpass them for sheer unadulterated monstrosity. Why don’t you be our pathfinder, reach out to these moderates, show us it can be done. I for one don’t want to end up as roadkill or with a knife in my back in order. They don’t belong here. They want to destroy our way of life and replace it with theirs. Just like they have done everywhere they have gone for the last 1400 years. In 1972 these so-called people attacked a bunch of athletes playing games, since then it has been a slow progression downward, ie: 9-11, Beslan, Bali and the beheadings of 12 year old girls in Indonesia. Enough!

"In 2003, Jewish Defense League activist Earl Krugel pleaded guilty to conspiring to bomb the mosque along with the office of San Diego congressman Darrell Issa. Krugel was killed in prison last year."

Today I'm going to say a prayer for Earl Krugel.
There was a time that I'd have been a annoying
whiner like albion, but since our government
panders to the invaders, it's people like Earl
Krugel that we'll be depending on.

Hi Fedup,
"Most Muslims are born into the belief system and many are kind hearted people. I have a friend and business college who is an Arab Muslim. He knows where I stand on the matter. "

dear frank, he knows where you stand, but the problem is that you will NEVER know where HE stands."

LOL When frankie comes to know his stance by the time it will be just BNAG+SMOKE+Body=SMOBOG

FRANKIE REMEMBER THIS

"Not all Muslims are Terrorists BUT ALL TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIMS"

Hugh: your point is well made and accepted that the number of Muslims in the US is around the 2.5-3million mark.
However, what to do with them? You mentioned the issue of the unreliability of a Muslim oath of allegiance.
Again I would state that although the readers and posters on this site are the most informed Judaeo-Christians about the aggressive, domineering statements within the Koran and Hadith's....we have no plan (that would be accepted by the general population, and would hold true to our founding fathers) as to what to do with them.

"WeatherPermitting" ...

2Cor. 6:14-16 (NKJV) -- "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial [Satan]? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."

Importantly, the believer is not commanded to kill the unbeliever as per the Qur'an!

"But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, and do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matt. 5:44-45: NKJV)

Peter Jakes, a member of the United American Committee said, "We are here in love, we are here for the Muslim people.”
That statement sounds to me like their primary agenda is to appease the Muslims. I don't trust them. War has been declared. You don’t win a war by appeasing the enemy. If the United American Committee is there for the Muslims, then they should go to the Middle East.

About 70 counter-protesters described the King Fahd Mosque as a peaceful center for area Muslims and yelled "racists go home!" during the ritual.
So, the 70 counter “peaceful” protesters yelled “racists go home” because US citizens hang an effigy of Osama Bin Laden on US soil. They have it all wrong. The US citizens are already home. You are the ones that should go home - back to where you came from.

Oh, the muslims won't confront the 100 protesters. They will go back inside the weapons cache mosque and plot to get revenge in a sneaky way.

RE: "Replacement Theology"

Replacement Theology was a perverted doctrine that made its way into the Roman Church fairly early with Augustine (AD 354-430) and his "The City of God" work (c. 400 AD).

For those who are not schooled on this doctrine, it basically replaces Israel with the Church, and all the promises made to Israel have been unequivocally transferred to the Church. Simply, the children of Israel have lost their place in line, and the Church has taken their place -- Israel has been supplanted by the Church permanently. The spiritual Church has replaced the literal Israel, so when reading the Bible, any mention of Israel now pertains to the Church.

Now, this corrupt doctrine required a new way of interpreting the Bible (even Augustine admits so much!), which Origen before him brought to the table (c. AD 185-254). It is called the allegorical method of interpretation (or the spiritualized method), where the "literal sense" meaning of the Scriptures is totally discarded in favor of the truer spiritual meaning. As such, literal Israel could be replaced with spiritual Israel, the Church.

The apostle Paul, an Israelite of Israelites himself, addresses the corruptness of such an interpretation head-on in Romans 9-11. Many in Christendom who promulgate this doctrine conveniently lose this portion of Scripture for the sake of their perverted doctrine.

Just my opinion!

Jimmy-

I have noted your comment and there is unpleasant truth in what you say. The world is a complicated place, and deception and self-deception don't help. That's for sure.

I commend the UAC for holding the effigy hanging in front of a mosque. The reaction by Muslims at that mosque is most telling, but hardly surprising. I believe Osama is a hero to most Muslims, "moderate" or not.

I wouldn't believe this if it wasn't for the totally inadequate response by Muslims to Islamic terror. They always seek to rationalize it or minimize Islam's fundamental role in inspiring these seemingly endless attacks. Infidels would be foolish to ignore this reality.

So called moderate Muslims are not on our side.

Islam of course is NOT A race. Therefore being Muslim is not a racial identity,which means that being anti-Islam is not a racial matter.

Islamic ideology on the other hand includes racism against persons of African descent and genocidal plotting against Jews and Christians--which for some reason is lapped up not only by Muslims worldwide but Europeans nowadays and not seen as racist by either. Islamic ideology derived as it is from the Kuran, Sira, and Hadiths with their homicidal prescriptions for Muslim dealing with the 'unbelievers' is anything but moderate and, actually, in essence, "extreme."

The Muslim 'community' is not about to admit any of this soon, since taqiyya pours out of the mouths of Muslims, not from bartenders' hands. So it pays never to listen to anything Muslims say as their disconnect from reality is total and unfathomable. And lapses in one's cognitive abilities is about all that comes from giving them one's ear. (Look at western Europeans today).

What this story tells me is that talking to a tree is possibly more educational than listening to a Muslim!

This is OT, but can anyone find the complete translated text of the al qaeda warning video from yesterday? I need a copy from which to pull quotes.

Albion said

We are rapidly joining the Muslims in the lowest common denominator.

Yes, it is hard to tell us apart. And when we start crashing airplanes into buildings, blowing ourselves up with bomb belts, videotaping beheadings, blowing up pizza parlors, shooting Buddhist monks, chopping the heads of Indonesian schoolgirls, then we'll really be joining the Muslims in the lowest common denominator, and we can all be ashamed of ourselves. Until then, though....

we have no plan (that would be accepted by the general population, and would hold true to our founding fathers) as to what to do with them.

The Muslims living here will have a large say in that. If they begin ferreting out the "few radicals" in their midst, and convince their adherents that Islam is truly the Religion of Peace (tm), then that will have one outcome. If they continue sending financial aid to terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezb'Allah, and continue to show allegiance to the likes of Bin Laden as in this demonstration, and if another large WMD attack takes place in the U.S., that will have a different outcome.

The "founding fathers" were not suicidal. They fought to uphold their values and their rights. You may have been misinformed.

The solution to the threat the muslims pose is simple: Internment camps.

During WW II, America interned the Japanese for fear they could not be trusted. Whether there were fifth columnists within that community is irrelevant. There could have been. Today, we know for a fact that there are fifth columnists within the muslim community. Every mosque has them.

In 1941, America had just been attacked and safety measures were put in place to protect the nation from an obvious possible danger. "Better safe than sorry" is a wisdom that transcends any civil rights notion.

Today, we are in a war with islam, and muslims, as they have demonstrated, can not be trusted.

How long do we keep them there?

For the duration of the war.

How long will that be?

Well, clerics, those that muslims look to for worldly guidance, say that the war with their host countries will last as long as freedom and democracy have not been defeated and sharia law has not been implemented in all corners of the earth - especially those very host countries. So the length of stay in the internment camp is dictated by how long they wish to wage war on their host societies. According to the Koran, and the modern-day clerics, they are required to wage that war forever, until they win.

So they have a choice. Go to an islamic country and be terrorists there, or stay in America and be interned. For those who are intolerant of freedom of others, themselves can have no freedom. And certainly NO freedom to act on that belief system.

The option of being free to roam the country to wage war on freedom and democracy from within, should not be an option. However, this is the option many would afford them simply out of some misplaced sense of, well... freedom and democracy.

Ironic isn't it?

Freedom and democracy have within it, a self-destructive mechanism. It would give freedom and democracy to those very people that seek to destroy it. Our friend Naseem has expounded on the da'wa strategy of using democracy to destroy democracy. Just as Lenin said that a capitalist will sell you the rope with which you can use to hang him, so too will a liberal, a leftist, a Ralph Peters, grant you the very freedom that you can use to subjugate and enslave him.

To prevent such a self-destructive dynamic from playing out, as it will when an enemy infests the body from within, a liberal democracy needs to have a war measures act, an act that it can call upon, under times of attack, time of war, to suspend the normal rights of a minority for the security of the majority, until such danger is passed.

We do it already in many ways. Restricting our freedoms when we travel by air is already the front wave of that war measures act. The necessities of which are imposed on us by the ummah, and specifically by the muslims that we have entertained as guests and residents in our country. Muslims, as a group, have already ruined the pleasure of air travel for the world. And they have done this when they only represent perhaps 2% of the host population. What horrors will they bring to us when they have reached 4% or 6% of the population?

Extrapolated into the future, at that rate, the muslim presence will cause the government to submit all of us to extreme security measures, in our daily lives, or we will live with terror like they do in Israel, where bus stops and pubs are awash in blood on Monday, and back in business on Tuesday. They have become inured to terror. That is the ultimate route the Left and our dhimmi leaders are taking us, to the point where we just "get used to it", and accept it as we have accepted muslims in our society. Either accept terror, or accept outrageous security measures in a flailing bit to prevent it.

I say we can't go that route, should not have to go that route. We must stop this zombie-like walk to that state of acceptance, or to a police state, and we do so by instituting measures, security measures that apply to muslims ONLY. And the only way to do that is to quarantine them, so that the rest of us; Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu can go about our daily lives free from terror, intimidation, just as we did before we graciously allowed this trojan horse to enter our city gates under the auspices of graciousness.

Albion said

We are rapidly joining the Muslims in the lowest common denominator

This is exactly how a Jihadi would name-call the defenders (when the defenders cannot be killed, that is).

Albion HAS already joined the Muslims in the lowest common denominator. Beware of Albion!

In any case, of the one million Muslims of the orthodox, Arab or Pakistani kind, how many can swear allegiance -- and mean it -- to the Constitution of the United States? How many can swear allegiance -- and mean it -- to individual rights, as enshrined in the Bill of Rights

Posted by: Hugh at September 11, 2006 09:27 AM

But, Hugh,

I see your important point, but remembering 'war is deciet' am also wondering why wouldn't those who want to kill, lie? But I think you mean a true, honest and a heart-felt allegiance.

I just decided to leave a comment on the Free Muslims article about 9/11. If anyone would care to join me, it can be seen here:

http://freemuslims.org/blog/index.php?id=2086

Needless to say, I am not going to hold my breath until Nawash responds.

Albion wrote: "The vacuum between our politicians stating Islam is a religion of peace, and the haters on this site that would deport / exterminate all Muslims in the west is being filled by a mob mentality."

Albion,

Spoken like one who does not understand Jihad and the goal's of islam from its' beginnings but just buys into the "Islam is a religion of peace" mantra.

I'm not being a chop-buster, rather I encourage you to read a bit into it. Start with Spencer's 'Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)' and then see if you can come back and say the same and not understand the concerns of all on this site.

August22 said

During WW II, America interned the Japanese for fear they could not be trusted. Whether there were fifth columnists within that community is irrelevant.

Wow, is that ever wrong. No, it's not irrelevant. The Japanese Americans living here did not do anything to cause their internment, other than looking different than European Americans. They should not have been locked up. We didn't lock up all German Americans because "there could have been" traitors among them. What kind of a standard is that for locking someone up? It was racism, pure and simple.

On the other hand, in mosques today we hear the sermons threatening to destroy the Great Satan and its Zionist Master; we see the financial support given to Hizb'Allah, Hamas, and other clearly jihadist organizations; we see self-declared religious motivation for many attacks (UNC SUV driver, OSU bomber, Richard Reid, D.C. sniper, the guy who cut the Greyhound busdriver's neck, the Egyptian pilot who dove his airliner into the ocean, etc. etc.); we can read in black and white (here, for example) exactly what the core beliefs of Islam are, and how the Qur'an and hadith and surah say that non-Muslims should be treated, with the knowledge that these are the instructions to be followed by all Muslims in all nations for all times.

Please do not associate a reasonable desire to protect oneself from an actual danger that exists with the racist mistakes of the past. This is the sort of association that the jihadists' apologists would love to make.

Many of the posters above dont get it:

It is NOT "Wahabism, extremism, radicalism, fundamentalism, fanaticism or Islamo-fascism"- Neither is it a matter of Shiia or Sunni or Sufi or Ahmadija-Islam; these may be sects within Islam where certain things differ marginally from another, but all read the same Koran & Sunnah, all understand that "war is deception" and that "killing unbelievers is a small matter to us" along with "kill and being killed for Allah"...

Jihad is mandatory on every muslim, terror is part & parcel of Islam and Mohammed himself bragged about how it "made him victorious"... etc.

Being "better then them" means to understand what Islam teaches. Being 'better than them' means to be prepared for the false accusations of racism, because Islam is not a race.

OBL is a hero to every believing Mohammedan, any argument a believing Muslim may have agianst him is that OBL struck too soon, that 9/11 was premature and that he therefore woke up the infidel to the threat.

Burning an effigy of Bin Laden is a good test. It has nothing to do with "lowest common denominator"- it clearly shows where Mohammedan loyalties lie: With him, with jihad, with terror!

That JDL activist Earl Krugel was killed in prison should tell you something: Do something about the spread of Islam and you are likely to be killed, one way or another!

We do not have to just "get used to it". We can correct the problem. It will be the Muslims who will have to "get used to it". They will have to change.

root_cause quoted

Jewish Defense League activist Earl Krugel [...] was killed in prison last year

Here is an article about his death.

According to the article:

...federal authorities have opened a homicide investigation, but ... declined to release further details. Krugel had only been at the medium-security prison for three days ...
FBI investigators [said] an inmate had struck [Krugel] on the head from behind with a cement block.

No mention of any motivation for the murder, and no suspects. I guess there weren't any guards near the exercise yard, and there must not have been any security cameras like the ones they have on the ceiling of every Wal-Mart. Another one of those mysteries that may never be solved.

I just decided to leave a comment on the Free Muslims article about 9/11. If anyone would care to join me, it can be seen here:

http://freemuslims.org/blog/index.php?id=2086

Posted by: libbysmom at September 11, 2006 01:44 PM

I read your question and am curious how it will be answered. In the meantime, I left one of my own. Thanks for the pointer.......

What really gets me is that they increasingly migrating here under our very noses. Do you think they are coming here to become normal Americans? How many moslem friends do you have? When you meet them, haven't you been thrilled with their views on world politics. Oh, I forgot that these zombies get their views from the local imams who were schooled in mosques funded by our friends the Wahhabist Sauds. I say, Kick the Bastards Out! NOW!

When are we going to get some RECIPROCITY in our relations with them? When are we going to be allowed to proselytize and convert moslems in their countries, if not our own. When are we going to be able to openly practice our religions in their countries.

What is the US State Department doing relative to the immigration problem we have? Somebody wake up willya?

HANG OSAMA HIGH! Better yet, drag him behind a pickup truck!

I was there and, unfortunately, it did not seem to be well organized(but I did get there late). I drove by and got into a shouting match with a guy who had a "U. S. and Israel are the real axis of evil" sign. Then, a guy(who I'm guessing was Pakistani by his accent) ran by and said "the Jews are all liars" at which point I had to park. Unfortunately the "racists go home" chant was louder and those other than the leadership seemed to be pretty uneducated. I thanked god for jihadwatch and got in some heated debates about the Koran and then a very nice, open one with a guy of southeast Asian descent(who admitted he was a socialist and that he was really there because the African-American guy who I've seen on CSPAN supporting the Minuteman Project was there) before some two Anglo dhimmis started screaming racist in my face! What really would have been effective is to have a multimedia presentation of speakers in the Islamic world such as Bin Laden and the lesser known Imams spewing their hate- all you would have needed is a laptop with a big screen right!

I have asked repeatedly if "albion" is the same poster that used to post here under that nic...never replies. He or she cannot be the albion that posted here in the early days of JW.
"Haters"? Yes, I hate the head-choppers and killers who are our enemies.

I was happy that one girl with hijab? was waving an American flag.

Hanging OBL in effigy near a mosque is great theatre and shows us how to direct some of our efforts in public defence.

Hugh: your suggestion about arab reparations to blacks for slavery is outstanding : where are Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the other black reverends ? We need them now to open the second front.

To read the koran is to be forearmed against muslim deceivers - are you watching Ibrahim ?

- all you would have needed is a laptop with a big screen right!

Posted by: Infidel

Better not spend much money on the laptop, or get it insured for vandalism.

They need to outlaw any religion that threatens people with death and destruction. Add that to the constitution.

They also need to add to the constitution and state/local laws that the United States, will always be run as it is...and Sharia Law shall never be permitted.

Otherwise, these folks will keep popping babies and in 20 years, we'll be outnumbered...which apparently, is the game plan.

Take a cue from England. It won't be long now until it becomes the first european islamic state.

The values of the West are worth defending. The outrages of 9/11 and the insipid "justifications" for the attacks emphasize the difference between the West and the likes of al-Qaeda and their supporters.

The rule of western law is imperfect, but outstrips other legal systems, most particularly shariah. Western law accounts for the human right and need to be heard, the freedom of speech and conscience. Hence the demonstration in front of the King Fahd mosque is an example of the First Amendment in action. Not a pretty one mind you. This was a mock-lynching and suggests mob justice. On that basis, I (and perhaps Albion?) am extremely uncomfortable. Not uncomfortable for the poor little Osama Bin Laden's of the world. Like millions of others, I would like nothing better than to see that creature in chains, brought before the justice of the court system and legally disposed of. But I don't want to see the West reduced to mob mentality. I want the West to defeat this threat with the weapons of the West: Freedom of Speech, the Rule of Law and -as a last resort- the Just War.

Are we in the West to succumb to the same fanatical thirst for blood that is seen so frequently in the Moslem world? Are we to run as mobs through the cities, tearing Moslem homes apart in some latter day Kristallnacht? Are we to take the law into our hands, invoking some higher power for such behavior? If so, then what discriminates us from the savages who wallow in this type of inflated self-righteousness? In effect: Nothing. We will have effectively become another Islamic sect, call ourselves what we will.

Instead, we must use the law -both already as it is as well as as it needs to become, but always consistent with the highest principles of Western tradition. We must speak up loud and clear, letting no one take away our right to do so. We must hold our elective representatives responsible for enforcement and preservation of the laws of the land. All immigrants must earn their place in Western societies and any breach of the laws concerning treason must have clear and effective consequences. Finally when violence is necessary, as unfortunately it all too frequently appears to be, we must act deliberately and with complete visibility into the causes and objectives of hte action, not as a mob. This struggle is to be no one's private vendetta.

I bet if an American of European descent tried to get a free education on the Koran by attending a mosque, with the intent of challenging any violent interpretations of scripture, he would not be afforded the same tolerance as someone of Middle Eastern descent, who they would see as just "misguided", whereas the European American would be seen as an "infidel".

There is so much posturing on this site and hardly any prescription for action. I am totally fine with a MOCK lynching of an ADMITTED MURDERER. Let's start worrying about mob mentality if it ever even comes close to that- right now the balance is far in their favor. UAC reports that mosques are petitioning for exemption from noise ordinances so that calls to prayer can be played on loudspeakers. Then you might see a mob.

There is solid evidence that this mosque supported terrorism, with two of the hijackers visiting here, and an Imam deported I believe.

I forgot my "Behead those who insult Democracy and desire Sharia" sign. I'm not sure which would be more effective- sarcastic signs such as that or a giant blow-up of those carrying the real ones. Actually, definitely the latter.

Carolyn2:

There are two different albions. The original came here all indignant that someone somehow appropriated his nic and friends had contacted him about it. He doesn't know how it could have happened but disavows all commentary by the new albion.

Are we in the West to succumb to the same fanatical thirst for blood that is seen so frequently in the Moslem world? Are we to run as mobs through the cities, tearing Moslem homes apart in some latter day Kristallnacht? Are we to take the law into our hands, invoking some higher power for such behavior? If so, then what discriminates us from the savages who wallow in this type of inflated self-righteousness? In effect: Nothing. We will have effectively become another Islamic sect, call ourselves what we will.

How sad. There are real life threatening problems that we face but you want to freak out over something that hasn’t to this point occurred and may never happen. Get in the now.

I'm ignorant about the U. A. C.- the African-American guy is Ted Hayes, one of the members, not a Minuteman Project guy, although I have seen him on CSPAN. Didn't know much about the group, but at least they're trying.

tgusa,

I remember Saturday night I had seen a Discovery special about the WTC distruction during the course of the 90 minutes right after the plane attacks. At the end of the special, two survivors had said that there will be another attack. In truth I am afraid we will be attack again and there will be I predict a huge angry backlash against all things Muslim that it will not be a mere protest group but an angry mob set to set the mosques on fire.

You're probably right Bigcatgirl. Our leaders and lawmakers are turning a blind eye to our safety and security by allowing these mo's in. It's as if they REFUSE to read up on the koran to understand what we're up against. Instead, they throw more of our hard earned taxes to muslims who only live to destroy us. I don't owe those muslims anything and for SURE don't want to support them. Here OR there.
Toss the mo's out of our country!!

bigcatgirl13106,
Another attack will come, and another and another and, well you know. As far as mobs go, when the day comes that more Americans have had a friend or loved one killed by jihadis than not I am afraid I will only be able to say, wait…stop…don’t…please… to my fellow Americans. There is however one way to make sure this never happens. Get them to renounce jihad and vow to be indifferent towards other religions, women, homosexuals, dogs, bikinis, music, movies, books, video games, food, cartoons, sports, games, my fingers are getting tired and I still have a long way to go. You get the picture.

Instead of the pipe dream of relying on government to deport an entire group of(likely) U. S. citizens (when it's somehow controversial and the subject of debate in the Senate whether or not we should even stop the influx of people illegally) why don't you get out there and join a group like the United American Committee which has events nationwide- Muslims are out in droves- are we too lazy?

" ... counter-protestors shout "racists go home!"

I was criticised in another article for stating that we cannot engage in intellectual debate with Muslims and their fellow traveling leftists. I stated that THEY will resort to calling us islamophobe, jingoist, and racist. I believe that my opinion is now validated.

If like me, you think we've given Muslims & Arabs enough chances and you're fed up and think it's time to call a murderous ideology a murderous ideology and remove the threat of terrorism from the free, peace-loving world, sign the petition:

http://timesup911.blogspot.com

albion wrote: "we have no plan (that would be accepted by the general population, and would hold true to our founding fathers) as to what to do with them."

Before we draft any plan on what to do with "them", we have to come to a sociopolitical consensus about who "them" is.

So far, our sociopolitical consensus is that "them" is a tiny minority of extremists who have perverted the doctrines of a great and noble religion of peace whose vast majority of followers are nice people.

So, before we start drafting plans, we need to work on reconfiguring our sociopolitical consensus. Robert and Hugh, et pauculi alii, are working on it, but they continue to labor as the true "tiny minority of extremists".

I present the First Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If we want to outlaw Islam, we will have a very steep uphill battle. It will be necessary to delete this phrase: "prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

What will be just as difficult is the task of having Islam declared a non-religion.

Get them to renounce jihad and vow to be indifferent towards other religions, women, homosexuals, dogs, bikinis, music, movies, books, video games, food, cartoons, sports, games, my fingers are getting tired and I still have a long way to go. You get the picture.

Tgusa, surely, you can't be serious? If your're not, you need to use the sarcasm font.

I think it would be easier to convert a rattlesnake into a salamander.

Up here in Canada we have the Federal NDP that claims to defend Females , Muslims , children , Education,and Human Rights and dignity for all people.

Keep this in mind because the NDP is cozy with the pro-Hezbollah/Hamas/Anti-Jew crowds in Canada.

The very same NDP just voted with a 92% support for letting the Taliban return to power
in Afghanistan by pulling our Troops out and sending them to Lebanon as Peacekeepers or Darfur,the NDP claimed that those people in Afgan aren't worth one drop of Canadian blood to protect Gays,Muslims,Females going to school,and free votes in Elections.
These idiot socialists merely enable and embolden the Islamofacsists which we saw during rallies for Peace where Hezbollah flag were waved and shout to wipe Israel off the face of the Eart, so it's too late for Muslims to pawn off their ruse that Islam means peace and Muslims are forbidden to do any violence.

NO Justice -- NO Peace
NO Islam -- Know Peace

tgusa:

What could be great source of sadness and regret is to become what we abhor. We must remember who we are and treasure that. We are the heirs to Preicles, Socrates, Plato, Cicero, Virgil, Dante, Michelangelo, da Vinci, Galileo, Newton, Montesquieu, Goethe, Voltaire, Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln and countless others. Shall we trade that in, only to ape the behavior of the followers of Mohammed, Marat, Hitler, Pol Pot or any number of Moslem despots?

To become what we abhor IS life threatening: It threatens the life and spirit of the democracy that we all say we cherish. The mock lynching is a lawful sign of justifiable anger, but it suggests a course of action that runs counter to Western law: mob justice. Even as the Culver City demonstration sends a clear message and challenge to the enemies of the West, it should also be seen as the danger sign it is for the West itself. Vigillantism will only lead us to a new Terror. Our anger must never cloud our reason.

And our reason must never cloud our anger.

Pelayo,
Except for my first sentence everything I wrote was dripping with sarcasm.
I will try to remember the sarc tab in the future.
If we are going to bring up the Constitution, don’t you think it is appropriate find out just what the signers thought about islam? Did they even think of it as a religion or just an ideology? Enquiring minds want to know.

Chatillon,
We must remember who we are and treasure that. We are the heirs to Pericles, Socrates, Plato, Cicero, Virgil, Dante, Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Galileo, Newton, Montesquieu, Goethe, Voltaire, Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln.

Yes and that is the reason we need to do whatever it takes to stop the menace before those names disappear from the minds of free men and history itself.
I never endorsed mob justice and I don’t have any desire to descend into the depths of depravity. Nor do I want to become akin to Mohammed, Marat, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Tito, Franco or Kim Dung Ill. All of the points you make would be better repeated to the enemy. But I thank you just the same.

These are the highly intellectual words from Chatillon: "We are the heirs to Preicles, Socrates, Plato, Cicero, Virgil, Dante, Michelangelo, da Vinci, Galileo, Newton, Montesquieu, Goethe, Voltaire, Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln and countless others."

Well, that's nice but you are really an heir to the bravery of men like Sheridan, Pershing, Washington, Eisenhower, Farragut, Grant, McAuliffe, Paine, Greene, Gates, and millions of ordinary men who truly did not want to kill other men.

Woops! that was from tgusa not Chatillon. Gosh!

Pelayo,
You were right the first time. I just included some of what he wrote as part of my response.

If you are opposed to Osama Bin Laden, they call you a "racist" or "Islamophobe".

In Europe, if you are critical of Islam, they try to press this charge because they can get you locked up for it.

Yet all day long there the Islamists plot murder against their ignorant and stupid hosts who have been kind enough to bring them in. Christians have no defense. Everyone is critical of Christians. We are the "bad guys", along with the Jews... to the far Left, the Neo-Nazis, and the Islamists.

If you want to visit Muslim majority countries... and you look white, they will murder you. We all know this. Yet, they come to our countries and live happily without ever facing even criticism. (Though things are beginning to change because of their extreme savage like customs derived from Islam... their incredible devotion to barbarity and lies...)

Albion wrote: "...we have no plan (that would be accepted by the general population, and would hold true to our founding fathers) as to what to do with them..."

The founding fathers created a government based on the fundamental concept of the "consent of the governed." Islam denies this concept totally and explicitly. That is their doctrinal straight jacket, and not due to anything we have ever done to them. Muslims therefore have no place in our society.

Chatillon wrote: "We are the heirs to Preicles, Socrates, Plato, Cicero, Virgil, Dante, Michelangelo, da Vinci, Galileo, Newton, Montesquieu, Goethe, Voltaire, Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln and countless others."

Yes, and it is our duty to pass this heritage on to the next generation. Islam considers all this to be jahiliyya, something to be discarded as so much useless rubbish after they take over. That is their immutable and destructive attitude, and is not caused by anything we have ever done to them. We should not tolerate this attitude even for a minute. Muslims have no place in our society.

Pelayo writes:

"If we want to outlaw Islam, we will have a very steep uphill battle. It will be necessary to delete this phrase: "prohibiting the free exercise thereof""

You're right. The correct approach IMO is to follow the Denamrk model to the extreme. If
Islam is mocked in every way, at every
opportunity, in every possible context (kind
of like the way Christianity is here in the
States, but I digress :) then mohammadans will
need to adapt or leave. And, in this mocking, we
don't overturn free speech, but use it!

I seem to have a number of people agitated.
Carolyn2: I am a different Albion from the one who posted before. For me to have been issued with this tag, his account must have expired/changed. That's the type key database, not me. And no-one owns the name of Albion.

Alert: did you try and out me as a troll? LOL
I'm trying to contribute to a strategic debate on how we combat radical Islam. Taking a J-C democratic tradition into a new form of warfare and not selling it down the river.

If I can't help laughing at a group of people burning a straw dummy that happens to be on Washington Blvd rather than downtown Gaza, it's because both look like stupid men with too much time on their hands.

It's not whining to point out our weaknesses in strategy and lack of connection to the populous (we have no popular movement).

I also believe that we will move to total war with Islam. I am also prepared to apply all of the resources we have. As we go through the states of diminishing freedoms moving into a war footing, I want to bring the public with me, and I want to protect the democratic traditions so that we might retain what we cherish.

So why don't we stop slagging each other off and talk about ways to make public expressions of anti-radical Islam more effective. What if the content that the activists wanted displayed was podcast? What if memory sticks / CD's were distributed.

This is what I would do:
Use Banksy style graffiti to promote ideas
Vet all colleges in UK to make sure they're not offering degrees in Islamic studies using radical interpretations
Join with / form a group that intellectually confronts Jihadists at colleges and Mosques
Join with a group that can offer flash counter-demos to the abhorrent islamo-fascists demonstrations.
6. Join with group applying multimedia more in fight of ideas
7. Repeal the Human Rights act in UK and apply mass deportation of all convicted sympathizers of radical Islam (3 judge court as used against IRA)
8. Politically vet all Imams registered in EU
9. CCTV all Mosques in EU
10. Ban all forms of Wahibbism in UK

If you want to talk towards mass deportations of Muslim people, we should start talking about the British experience with Internment and shoot-to-kill.

But far from being an apologist, I am trying to win through a clear sighted view of how effective our strategy is.

A few parts of this story need to be highlighted: More protesters than counter protestors. This show the word is getting out and more importantly people are not afraid to confront muslims face to face. No violence was reported although it looks as if it came close. Even though muslims are violent they act out only when the target is cowering or when they have a vastly numerological advantage. The poor innocent muslims were angry, as already pointed out old bin is a hero to them. The last thing which needs a little highlighting is the press ran the story. That alone is amazing and what is more amazing is this happened in liberal Kalafornia. Times are a changing folks.

I disagree special_guest. Interring the Japanese was not racist. It was a response to a perceived threat, and it was the right thing to do at the time. The Germans were a much more integrated segment of American society, indeed, Germans are one of the founding peoples of America. Segregating them was not a comparable situation. Ethnically, German heritage ran right through most of the US military at some level. The Japanese, however, were still at that time, and to some degree still today, a foreign entity to the West, cloistered in their ethnic enclaves. Suspicion was justified. They did the right thing.

But of course, the Japanese did not exhibit any of the anti-social characteristics exhibited by today's muslims. The point being, we did it to the Japanese under a wartime environment, we therefore need to do the same with the muslims.

There is a Big A Albion and a small a albion. Not long ago Albion left a post angry at albion for stealing his name.WTF?

Ronin,
They probably came up from Orange County or down from Ventura County. I doubt there is 100 people who hate bin laden in LA.
http://www.uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?f=0&fips=6&year=2004

This was a terrific act of creative political theater! Go get 'em, Ted and everyone else!

We need much more of same, since Muslim immigration to America is on the increase according to the NYTimes:

Muslim immigration UP

Obviously Muslims haven't gotten the message that they are NOT WELCOME. Immigration is not a right and they have plenty of places to live in Dar al-Islam where they can commune happily with the Umma. Away from us.

Five years post 911, we have heard scarce little from those so-called 'moderate' Muslims condemning the heinous barbarous acts against our people, both in US and abroad; and since we know ALL these acts of Jihad terror were made by MUSLIMS, then it is time to reciprocate in a just and fair manner.

In response to Hugh's: "To prevent such a self-destructive dynamic from playing out, as it will when an enemy infests the body from within, a liberal democracy needs to have a war measures act, an act that it can call upon, under times of attack, time of war, to suspend the normal rights of a minority for the security of the majority, until such danger is passed.
We do it already in many ways. Restricting our freedoms when we travel by air is already the front wave of that war measures act..."

In reciprocal fashion, rather than 'restricting our freedoms' en masse for the majority, as we now have at the airport, to guard against the Muslim Jihad threat in our societies, it is far more sensible and just to restrict their freedoms for the small minority that is responsible for these attacks. And since Muslims are unable to police their own, either by their 'moderates' or their religious figures, either unable or unwilling to, then in their failure to constrain their own, the task now falls to us to restrict them. In some small measures we already do through surveillance of their activities, such as the internet or telephone contacts, but this is too broad an approach. I suggest the following as more efficient, and just, for the majority rest of us who are peace loving, yet being tyrannized by this small minority sect living in our midst:

1. CCTV monitoring of all their mosques, in particular during Friday prayers, and a voluntarily surrendered transcript of their imam's speech, both in Arabic and English, to enforce these are in compliance with our laws of gender equality, non-discrimination against any ethnic group, responsible free speech, and non-seditious activities, such as hate mongering.

2. Institute a 'parolee' program for all Muslim males between the ages of 17-28, the highest risk population subjected to Jihad propaganda and extremist ideology. This may necessitate special ID cards with finger print and a magnetic strip on all pertinent details, such as name, age, residence, travel history, DNA, blood type, next of kin, etc.

3. Have each Muslim, male and female, of 17 years of age and older, declare that they uncategorically condemn Jihad, and that they will do everything in their power to bring to justice those who engage in it. In the fine print it should also state that they do not support Sharia, nor the world Caliphate. If they cannot sign off on this, they must be considered hostiles. If hostiles, they must be then treated as other criminal parolees.

These policies may not lift entirely the burdens they placed on us the majority, by a tiny minority of Muslims sympathetic to Jihad, especially endorsed by their silence, but it will further restrict their ability to subvert by both fast and slow Jihad the free societies in which they had chosen to live, or their parents had chosen to live in. If they are peace loving Muslims, then there is no problem, and they will never encounter any difficulties as regards the law. But if their 'moderate' behaviors prove anything but that, then we will have a tighter reign on their activities, especially since these activities are hostile to our freedoms, to those of us who live peacefully in society. This may not prevent them from slyly pushing their slow Jihad, by conversion of innocents to their 'religion of war' by calling it a "religion of peace", or bedroom Jihad with gullible females who succumb to their outward charms, nor the legalistic efforts of their 'civil rights' organizations to surreptitiously sneak Sharia into our laws, but it will slow them in their tracks. They will know they are suspicious characters who are monitored for anti-freedom and anti-American activities and dealt with with the full force of our laws. There is absolutely no reason to extend them the same courtesies afforded other Americans if they fail in complying with our way of life, and if they hate our freedoms, and support covertly or overtly the terrorist ambitions of Islamic Jihad. We have an enemy living within, and it must deal with. The only other solution, since we are at war, a war imposed on us by 911 and their world conquest Jihad, both before and after, leaves us no choice but to do what must done in war:

4. Internment camps and selective deportation.

Which will they prefer? Numbers 1-3, or number 4? Which is better for us? The world is in a 'hot war' right now, so we must be realistic about the nature of our enemy, covert yet congenial and unthreatening until the last minute before they commit murder. That is the teachings of their founder's evil religion of deceit, and it must be understood as such, that they are hostile to and unsupportive of our secular way of life and constitutional freedoms. If this is not so, then they will comply with the three points above, and help us fight our common enemy, and condemn world Jihad. But if they cannot do this, or will not, then number four becomes mandatory.

We have already lost too many of our freedoms to this small minority religious sect, such as what we have to go through at the airport, and it is a crying shame. But the fact is that the Muslim sect is already here. It is high time we start to restrict their freedoms, so we can regain ours. There should be zero-tolerance for any enemy living within our borders.

Lastly, as a matter of principle, never use the term "terrorist" but always use "Jihad terrorist", and likewise never use "extremist" but always use "Jihad Muslim extremist". In this case, in this war, semantics are important.

Pelayo:

All of the men on your list (except Paine) led armies or navies into battle, not mobs. All of the men on your list honored the rule of law. All of the men on your list left an example not only of bravery and personal sacrifice but of loyalty to civil authority.

The enemy that now faces the West will exploit every advantage to further his aims. He will lie and murder. He will stampede us off the cliff if he can. An alert, well-informed citizenry is harder to stampede than a mob.

Stendec:

I suspect, like you, that Moslems have no place in our society. Having this publicly debated and decided can only help clarify matters. Once again, an actively engaged, educated electorate is required, not a mob. I'm sure you agree.

In response to Hugh's: "To prevent such a self-destructive dynamic from playing out...

That was me. I'm not quite at Hugh's level yet. lol

United American Committee has a page with several cheerful photos of the fine event...

UAC Hangs Osama

tgusa,

I am convinced the word is spreading. I am even more convinced any politician who kisses up to the muslims and spouts the old PC crap will be unemployed soon. No matter where in California they came from, they acted. They carefully chose the time, place and event. They claim every trend starts in California, we will see.

tgusa: I've changed my tag to protectalbion. I'm surprised the 1st albion didn't sign on as 'the true albion' and tell me to piss off. Due to this lack of naked aggression I'm not sure if he's a true Albion. But if he laughs at me for suggesting he should now sign on as 'mommy the bad man stole my bike!' then I'll know he is. Now we've sorted that out, any ideas about getting the message across, without having the piss taken out of us for choosing a mosque that was the 1st in the area to condemn the terrorist attacks. ( www.fark.com)

That mosque was chosen because it had entertained two of the 9/11 hijackers. It is a known extremist mosque.

Perhaps that is why they were the first to denounce the attack?

"That was me. I'm not quite at Hugh's level yet. lol

Posted by: August22 at September 11, 2006 07:59 PM"

Sorry, my bad notes. I should either take pensmanship again, or get new reading glasses. :)

"I think it's crazy," said mosque spokesman Usman Madha. "We have never encouraged extremism. We were the first mosque that condemned the Sept.11 atrocities and we kicked out a few people that protested that condemnation."

Really and what proof do you have? We know enough not to believe a muslim spokesman. Did you condemn the attack on 9/11 or years afterward? Did you organize your people and take up monies for the families of the fallen? Did you fly an American flag over your mosque to show your love for the country in which you live? Did you plan your own remembrance on the 5th anniversary of the murders? We already know the answers.

"So then why is it that when the United American Committee hanged Osama in effigy, the members of the King Fahd mosque didn't eagerly join in, happy for the chance to show that they're patriotic Americans who are outraged at what bin Laden and his ilk have done to their faith?"

In fairness to the mosque members, they probably weren't getting a very friendly vibe from the protesters, so you can't really fault them for not eagerly joining in.

On the other hand, I agree with the point that so-called "moderate" or mainstream Muslim congregations have been deafeningly silent on the whole Islamist terrorist issue, except when it involves public whinging about how unfairly maligned they are. It's certainly true that Muslims have a bad public image, even though the overwhelming majority of them are peaceful and law-abiding (although no doubt some of the more extreme voices on this board will contest that.) My point is that their whinging has the wrong target. They should be whinging (or more appropriately, howling, screaming, denouncing, and hurling invectives and inventive curses) at those Muslims who are the REASON they have such a bad image now. That they are not doing can be put down to a number of things: ambivalence, complicity, or fear, or a combination of all three, being the most likely culprits. But whatever the reasons, they need to start putting their money where their mouth is if they really want to start repairing the public image of Islam, if that is indeed their goal.

Somewhat off-topic, but I am reminded of a story in the news a few days ago about a fellow in California who - in response to a Muslim being required to remove his T-shirt before boarding a place because it had Arabic writing on it - designed a T-shirt with the words "I Am Not a Terrorist" written in Arabic. O.K., cute idea and no doubt he is congratulating himself on his great wit (I actually think written Arabic is a beautiful language), but why stop there? Why not a T-shirt that says, in Arabic (and maybe English too, to broaden the message somewhat) "Al Queda, Hamas, Hezbollah and other Islamic Terrorists Profane Islam, and May They All Rot in Hell"? I'd like to see a Muslim wearing THAT. Then, if he gets hassled at a security check-in, I'll be the first to come to his defense.

Just a thought.

I'll be the first to come to his defense.
Posted by: angloirishslav

I hope for your sake you find that moderate muslim, I would bet you ride nessie, milk a bigfoot and capture a jackalope first.

from moderationist:
Perhaps there should be a demonstration in front of every mosque in the country after any islamofascist terror attack.

That would be a daily, constant demonstration. But most in the West are actually gainfully employed and don't have time to kill (pardon the pun) as the Islamic countries.

Unemployment rates (main source; CIA World Fact book):

Afghanistan 40%
Iraq 30%
Yemen 35%
Palestinians (Gaza) 31%
French Muslims 40-70% (varies between cities)

United States 5%
Canada 6%

Chatillon wrote: "Once again, an actively engaged, educated electorate is required, not a mob. I'm sure you agree."

Of course, I agree with that.

The UAC event at Culver City was hardly mob activity, though (I have not seen any video, so I am not sure how disciplined the protesters were; but since there were no arrests, I have to assume that it was fairly peaceful).

And symbolically hanging OBL is hardly vigilantism, or even suggesting vigilantism.

The event was a carefully organized demonstration, at least a month in the planning (I remember getting UAC emails about it, though I am not a member of that group), and everyone, including explicitly the Muslims in that communiity, were invited--well ahead of time--to participate. So it was not any kind of "ambush" of Muslims, either.

Hugh got it right. The event was a test to see if the Muslims in that mosque truly eschew violence in the name of their faith--and, as expected, they failed that test.

Chatillon, I wasn't only talking about mobs, I was trying to satirize your list. Montesquieu, Goethe, Voltaire, give me a break. Franklin, Jefferson, and Lincoln were the only men in the list that have any historical significance or usefulness. This high moral ground pseudo-intellectual nonsense will get us all killed or dhimmified. Sometimes one has to act like a monster to hunt a monster.

I don't want to see mob rule either. What will we do if the ballot box does not achieve the ends to ensure our protection?

Chatillon:
What foolishness:
"To become what we abhor is life threatening."
(Earl Krugel is dead. So is his partner. probably killed by islamofascists)

"Vigilantism will only lead to a new..."

You are setting up a straw man to preen your moral superiority (a la Clinton,that useless twit).Who the hell is talking about vigilantism ?

There is a real fight going on, and boys will have to become men.

Do you value your life and the people you love ?

There's a new basis for taqiyya now: a Muslim can sincerely say with a straight face that "Oh yes, I am against that horrible event 911!"

What they really mean, however, is "I am against that CIA-Zionist plot cooked up by Bush and Cheney to destroy the Twin Towers and make it look like Muslims did it."

"Posted by Chatillon or Stendec:
I suspect, like you, that Moslems have no place in our society. Having this publicly debated and decided can only help clarify matters. Once again, an actively engaged, educated electorate is required, not a mob. I'm sure you agree."

I agree too, that is why I am in favor of literacy tests to be able to vote.

remote_control,

The truth is that the taqiyya basis saying that as a Muslim I am against 9/11 is old hat, having been said since 9/12/01 .

August22 said

The Japanese, however, were still at that time, and to some degree still today, a foreign entity to the West, cloistered in their ethnic enclaves.

Foreign entity? Cloistered? I'm guessing you don't live in California or Washington State. Then-President Ronald Reagan officially apologized and said that the camps were created out of "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership". If it makes you feel better, it was FDR who authorized it originally. Darned liberals.

The point being, we did it to the Japanese under a wartime environment, we therefore need to do the same with the muslims.

Again, for the reasons listed above, I'd agree with you, except that I'm not for setting up inhumane internment camps to subsidize and support the Muslims. I'm for a humane repatriation, so they can go back to their Islamic homelands, and enjoy the full fruits of shariah, without the corruption and vices (ie. freedom and democracy) of the West.

I was there. The event was not very well organized, at least compared to the UC Irvine cartoon panel discussion & protest a few months ago. A much smaller turnout, too. Few on the UAC side had signs, but there were quite a few US flags. People were basically milling about, yelling back and forth across the street until Ted Hays, Jesse Petrilla, and Peter James from UAC arrived about 45 minutes into the event. Twice the UAC/Minutemen side chanted "We love muslims!, we love muslims!....etc. I passed.

There were about 100 UAC/Minutemen supporters vs. about 130-150 muslims/supporters. (I am quite good at estimating crowds, having done it as part of my profession. I counted several times using several methods. Anyone who says there were more UAC protesters is mistaken or lying)

At any time, the muslims & supporters made up 20-30 percent of the crowd on the UAC/Minutemen side of the street. They were there, taking photos, videos, engaging in conversation, gathering information, and just plain infiltrating. This behavior was not so apparent at the UCI event.

A lot of the muslim & supporter side, including about half the sign-carriers, were made up of people protesting the presence of the Minutemen, many of who were wearing Minutemen t-shirts, hats, etc. It was a sort of general anti-USA (surprise surprise) left-green event.

It was disappointing to see 6-10 or more clergy on the muslim side, including two priests and a rabbi.

On the other hand it was encouraging to see a Persian family- father, mother, children, on the UAC side all carrying US & Iranian flags (pre-revolution, with the lion) and enthusiastically smacking OBL.

There were no uniformed police present. Near the end of the event, the muslim side slowly pushed the UAC side back. The UAC supporters, now numbering about 50, re-grouped across Washington Blvd. in a 7-11 parking lot where Ted Hays proposed meeting in the morning at his Dome Village to possibly burn the OBL effigy.

It was a learnig experience. Hopefully, the next such event will be better attended by people interested in the survival of western civilization. Thanks to all who showed up to support those killed five years ago and thank you Ted and all the other organizers.

Two photo captions from the AP on the event:

AP photo coverage

Supporters of religious freedom and immigration rights stand in front of the King Fahd Mosque in Los Angeles, Sunday, Sept. 10, 2006, as they gather across the street from a rally held by the The United American Committee. (AP Photo/Ann Johansson)
AP - Sep 10 5:58 PM

A man uses a shoe to beat an Osama bin Laden effigy that has just been hung, an event organized by the United American Committee, across the street from the King Fahd Mosque in Los Angeles, Sunday, Sept. 10, 2006. Supporters of religious freedom and immigration rights stand in front of the mosque. (AP Photo/Ann Johansson)

It may be in effigy only, for now.

But one day ... ?

When it happens, please film and broadcast it, just like the butchers with the meat cleavers do.

Just so you can be absolutely sure of what kind of enemy we're dealing with, here's a copy of what I posted on Up Pompeii blogspot at 04.00 this morning (with a bit of self-censorship where appropriate):

Sir Henry Morgan said...

Rop

Get's worse mate. Much much worse. Things are never so bad that they can't get worse.

You may notice the timing of this comment - it's because I simply can't sleep given the stuff I've been reading all night as I re-format those lists. Here are a few not particularly unusual entries:

6/26/06 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A Muslim man slits his pregnant wife's throat in an honor killing.

6/15/06 India Dunga 1 13 Two brothers are brutally tortured by Islamists, who cut off their tongues, noses and ears. A 65-year-old man is also shot to death.

7/20/06 Iraq Basra 4 5 The throats of a mother and her three children are slit by Muslim terrorists in their home.

7/18/06 Iraq Tikrit 2 0 Radical Muslims cut off a girl's head, then place it on a bomb, which kills another civilian when it detonates.

7/3/06 India Poonch 1 0 Hizb-ul-Mujahideen kidnap a police officer then cut out his eyes, ears and penis before slitting his throat.

Wait, wait - it's even worse than that:

All the perpetrators could be in this country next week as illegal immigrants; indeed, given the dates on those entries they could already be here!

No, no, wait, don't go - it's even worse than that!

If they are caught here, then because of the stupidity of our European human rights legislation, we can't even deport them! - because they might face execution for their crimes. AND ANYWAY, how would we know it was them that we had - so they'd walk. Not even held in detention.

Right - now YOU try and get to sleep.

Now I'm going to show you all how clever I am by speaking a word or two of French:

F***ING ANIMALS!!!

4:00 AM, September 12, 2006

Sir Henry, that's why we call them bloodthirsty barbarians. And these are the best reasons to laugh in someone's face when they say" religion of peace".

Pelayo:

"I wasn't only talking about mobs, I was trying to satirize your list. Montesquieu, Goethe, Voltaire, give me a break. Franklin, Jefferson, and Lincoln were the only men in the list that have any historical significance or usefulness."

Of course I wasn't aware that you were sending me up. What a shock. However, I'd do a little more study on where Jefferson and the other US founding fathers got some of their political ideas if I were you. And I'd also do a little studying on who Franklin hobnobbed with in Paris during his stay there while trying to win recognition of the US from the French court. The West, the US included, has debts to many great people, all of whom left a legacy that helped to lift humanity out of the dust.

dgene:

"Do you value your life and the people you love ?"

Why, yes I do as a matter of fact value my life and the lives of the poeple I love. I also love and value the country I live in and its way of life, the dedication of its sons and daughters to liberty and its Constitution. And I also value having my words taken in their complete context, not in some bowdlerized fashion that makes me look even more silly than I really am.

Stendec:

You state that the Culver City event was carefully planned, not an ambush, etc. all of which I wouldn't even expected in the first place. But if the turnout was relatively low, with respect to both the desired turnout as well as the counter demonstration across the street, maybe folks had some misgivings concerning the promised theatrics, more in keeping with Lahore than Culver City.

Chatillon,

No broken windows, no burned cars (no fires even), no beatings, no trespassing, no littering. No huge mob. No rampaging vigilantes. Just the rule of law everywhere. Sorry to disappoint you--no Lahore.

From article: There were several heated exchanges as protesters crossed the street to confront one another, but no violence and no arrests, Culver City police said.

There is only one way to have a 'heated exchange' with a muslim...Protesters at the mosques need to heat things up a bit by throwing pork chops and hot dog pieces. Non-lethal, but deadly to the porkaphrenic muslim. Let 'porkaphrenia'run wild at the mosques, let them be covered in pickled pigs feet and pork rinds. Throw a porkchop at a jihadist and watch him run. May pork pellets rain upon them. Pigs will save the world from Islamisation. We have our own 'Mahdi'...his name is 'Porky Pig'...

In 2003, Jewish Defense League activist Earl Krugel pleaded guilty to conspiring to bomb the mosque along with the office of San Diego congressman Darrell Issa. Krugel was killed in prison last year.

How is the investigation going on identifying Krugel's murderer?

More important, if they did catch the murderer, did he have a Koran in his cell? You know, one of those holy murder-manual the gullible judge buys for these creeps with our hard-earned tax dollars.

Hi everyone,
Here is a link to a site that is supposed to straighten out our misunderstanding of islam.
Didn't work for me.
http://www.turntoislam.com/

Here is the scoop on Earl:

The Murder of Earl Krugel: Where’s the Outrage?

On November 4, 2005, Jewish Defense League (JDL) member Earl Krugel was murdered in an Arizona prison. It was only his third day into a 20-year sentence at the Federal Correction Institution in Phoenix. The 62-year old Navy veteran and former dental technician was exercising when another inmate came up behind him and hit him over the head with a concrete block, killing him instantly. Why a loose cement block was just hanging around the exercise yard is still unknown. Authorities have been fairly tightlipped so far, but the investigation has reportedly focused on a white supremacist inmate.

While this is indeed plausible, the list of JDL enemies is a long one and also includes Islamic extremists. Such groups are known for honoring historically significant dates with fresh acts of violence and the strange timing of Krugel’s death fuels these suspicions. It just so happens that on November 5, 1990, JDL founder Rabbi Meir Kahane was murdered by an Egyptian terrorist. Then on November 4, 2002, JDL Chairman Irv Rubin’s "attempted suicide" occurred in federal custody. He died nine days later and on November 4, 2005, Earl Krugel was murdered while in custody. It’s awfully difficult to imagine these were all coincidences.

Although Rubin’s death was labeled a suicide, the facts speak otherwise. He was awaiting trial at the federal Metropolitan Detention Center in Los Angeles when he allegedly slit his own throat with a prison-issued razor and plunged 18 feet over a railing, dying nine days later. Despite the implausibility of this scenario, authorities somehow got away with ruling Rubin’s death a suicide. The fact that nearby surveillance cameras reportedly weren’t working is just one of the many suspicious aspects of Rubin’s case.

Both Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel were in prison for allegedly plotting to bomb the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, as well as one of Arab-American congressman Darrell Issa’s field offices. Although neither actually took place, they were arrested soon after Sept. 11, 2001 under the auspices of the Patriot Act. The arrest resulted from FBI informant Danny Gillis, who secretly taped conversations and delivered the explosive powder with which Krugel and Rubin were charged. Some suspect that Rubin and Krugel were entrapped by an overzealous FBI eager to show their evenhandedness in prosecuting terrorism.

Bail was denied both defendants and they spent many months in prison awaiting trial. In fact, Rubin’s "suicide" attempt occurred on the day that he was to have his eagerly anticipated hearing. The harsh treatment continued when Krugel was sentenced to 20 years in prison even though he’d signed a plea agreement, a move that even baffled news organizations. According to the Associated Press, "The reasons for the collapse of an initial plea agreement were sealed, despite a lawsuit by news organizations, including The Associated Press, to make the details public."

There are also indications that a previous case may have inspired the investigation into Rubin and Krugel. According to the affidavit of FBI agent Mary P. Hogan, JDL informant Danny Gillis initially came to the FBI with information about the unsolved 1985 bombing death of Alex Odeh, Western Director of the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) in Santa Ana. Interestingly, Hogan had also worked on Odeh’s case and then later was instrumental in going after Rubin and Krugel.

Pressure from the ADC has kept the FBI reward for Odeh’s killer(s) at $1 million for 20 years. The same pressure may have come to bear in finding the JDL responsible, although no one has ever been charged with Odeh’s murder. Earl Krugel was constantly leaned on in prison to give up information about the Odeh murder and his plea agreement included language to that effect. Solving the Odeh case seems to have been the driving interest of the government and the possible entrapment of Rubin and Krugel may have been an attempt to do so.

Despite all the questions surrounding the case, the silence from the American Jewish community regarding Earl Krugel’s murder has been deafening. Other than the JDL itself, not one Jewish group has called for an investigation. And they reacted in exactly the same manner after Rubin’s death. The truth is the American Jewish community has long been wary of associating themselves with the JDL, who they see as an obstacle to their own comfortable existence as non-threatening Jews. While Jews have shown concern in the past over the fate of Jewish prisoners housed with Neo-Nazis and such, when it comes to the JDL, it seems that some Jewish lives are deemed more important than others.

But perhaps the JDL’s reputation as hardcore extremists is off the mark. For instance, neither Rubin nor Krugel had ever been convicted of any violent crimes. Richard Rosenthal was a New York police officer who went undercover to investigate the JDL in 1970 and he wrote a book about the experience titled Rookie Cop. The picture Rosenthal paints of the JDL hardly demonstrates the ruthless and criminally skilled organization so often portrayed by its opponents. If anything, JDL members were beset by mishaps, petty infighting and a lack of experience. Such internecine squabbling continues today with a split within the JDL that shows no sign of letting up, even after Krugel’s death.

Beyond all the accusations of extremism, it appears the JDL’s real crime has always been standing up unequivocally for the Jewish people. They are Jews who refuse to be victims. They believe in armed self-defense as the best means of combating anti-Semitism. For this they are shunned by the mainstream Jewish community to this day.

JDL founder Rabbi Meir Kahane’s biggest offense was calling for the forcible removal of all Arabs from Israel and the disputed territories. Yet today, Israel forcibly removes Jews from Gaza, Palestinians burn down synagogues and kill more Jews in gratitude, and the world turns a blind eye. The transfer of Jews is an acceptable solution, but the mere suggestion that the warring Arabs go back to the countries from whence most of them came is a crime against humanity. The fact that the remnants of Kahane’s work, the Kach movement in Israel and the JDL in the United States, are both still vilified is a testament to the world’s double standard when it comes to Jews and self-defense. Jews are the only people on the planet expected to simply lie down and await slaughter.

Indeed, there is such a strong prejudice among Jews against displays of strength that those who stray from the party line are immediately ostracized. This is why if one dares mention the JDL in Jewish company, they are sure to be met with either immediate dismissal or a barrage of animosity and disavowal.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has been particularly strident in its denunciation of the JDL, going so far as to commend the FBI for arresting Irv Rubin. As they put it on the ADL website, "For more than a quarter of a century, [the] ADL has been monitoring the contemptible activities of the JDL and its leadership."

Rabbi Myra Soifer of Temple Sinai synagogue in Reno (where the JDL recently held a conference) told the Reno Gazette-Journal: "There is nothing about the JDL I think as acceptable…I think, in the end, they are harmful to Jews and Jewish survival."

Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino, said of the JDL: "They're extremists. They really have been marginalized. None of the credible (Jewish) groups would have anything to do with these people."

In answer to such criticism, Irv Rubin once said, "Those critics of JDL's action have no concept of righteous anger…they prefer to be targets; they love tears and sympathy; they stand up for the rights of their killers." He may have been on to something.

Some have simply written off Rubin and Krugel’s deaths as the deserved end to lives of controversy. But the point isn’t whether Krugel and Rubin were the "terrorists" they’ve been labeled, but rather that prominent Jews in federal custody have a curious habit of dying under mysterious circumstances. In a time when liberal organizations such as the ACLU and Amnesty International devote an inordinate amount of energy to defending the "rights" of Islamic terrorists at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib, one would think that Jewish "extremists" would garner as much concern. But the overriding attitude has been one of silence, dismissal, and even contempt.

If there’s anything the JDL can teach the Jewish community, it’s the principle that Jews must stand up for other Jews. Unfortunately, this has not been the case with Irv Rubin and Earl Krugel, whose deaths are being largely disregarded because of their unpopular politics.

Perhaps it’s time to right that wrong.

WeatherPermitting said: "You noted that Christan clergy joined with the Muslims in their wretched counter demonstration . And then they wonder why their churches are emptying and claim that America is becoming a 'post Christian' society .
No , it's their OWN lack of faith that became apparent to the congregation , who largely merely go elsewhere to where the true Faith is preached and not just the latest LLL drivel. I certainly would not tolerate a preacher who clearly sides with the country's sworn enemies."

I have the same problems with SOME so-called mainstream clergy who are so naively wishy-washy and lacking in moral leadership in their dealings with radical Islam. However, the people who are leaving mainstream churches are either not going to any church, which is their right, or else turning to fundamentalism and going to those shopping-malls of religion that spoon-feed them a largely 19th Century-invented hallucenogenic fiction, namely, premillennialism/ dispensationalism, with its lunatic and obsessive focus on the Rapture and the Apocalypse, which is a perversion and and utterly blasphemous and offensive, irrational, hateful, dangerous and unrecognizable corruption of the true message of Jesus Christ. This is what you posit as the only alternative to "LLL drivel." Thanks, but I think I'd prefer to stay home and pray on my own.