Fitzgerald: Piet Hein Donner should go

Vell, in ze same vay, eef most of ze people in Holland voted to imprison ze Jews und have zem executed, zat too should be ze law! Sieg - I mean, long live Holland!

- Oberst Donner

Polls,polls, and more polls! Lately this is what are MSM political talking heads refer to on a daily basis when it comes political issues. Its as if the leaders of our countries should be driven by whatever the polls say, this is of course insane. Of course no politician is going to directly criticize those who respond to some of these polls and yet many really do not have a clue as to what the real issues are.

Sadly in America, many people couldn't find Iraq on an Atlas if you put it in front of them. Some of you may have seen a video where a man carried a world map around with him and he had deliberately changed the names of countries on it. The best one was that he had changed Australia to read Iraq and surprisingly many pointed to it and said oh there it is, some said they where surprised how big Iraq was,others said they didn't realize it was an Island while all the time they where actually looking at Australia.

A poll generated society is dangerous at best. If we had polls to determine our directions we wouldn't need leaders anymore.

62 years ago this week, the Allies were fighting at Arnhem, hoping to win the war against Germany by Christmas. Unfortunately, they suffered a defeat there, and the war in Europe was prolonged by 5 months. These were months when my grandad saw one of his friends blown up by a booby-trap bomb in Holland in 1945, at just 19 years old.

In one fell swoop, this fool has insulted the memories of those soldiers, sailors and airmen who fell in the liberation of Holland, not to mention the likes of Anne Frank and those other 105,000 Dutch Jews who were murdered in the death camps - a full 75% of Holland's prewar Jewish population. And his way of showing gratiutude is to talk about Sharia law being implemented in Holland, when people should be showing the same resolve to keep Holland free as what our troops showed over 60 years ago to give them back their freedom.

The backflip came quickly:

Dutch official warns of Islamic law

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands, Sept. 13 (UPI) -- The Dutch justice minister said Wednesday he was not advocating Islamic law when he said the Netherlands could be ruled by it if enough people wanted it.

Piet Hein Donner said on the contrary he was warning against it.

[...]
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060913-081001-8737r
===================================================

Piet Hein, however, is another matter. That is the pseudonym of a Danish writer, author of the famous collections of "Gruk" and still more Gruk, even "Gruk fra alle Aarene" ("med tak for alle aarene, fra Piet Hein" reads the inscription on the copy in front of me), known to all readers of Martin Gardner's old column in Scientific American, in the old days, the days of Courant's "What is Mathematics?" and Newman on Godel's Proof, the good old days remembered by those who have to be, by this point, somewhere between the ages of 58 and 98 because, you see, it would be impossible for anyone younger to have read any copies of Scientific American that appeared when he was still an infant, or before he was born.

The Dutch Piet Hein was a naval hero of the Eighty Years War, with a monument to him in the Oude Kerk, and "Piet-Hein" not rare as a first and middle name in Holland, between such first names as Marie-Josee, or Marie-Therese, or Marie-Claire, or Jean-Jacques or Jean-Pierre, and those where the first and middle names appropriate the full name of a famous figure, as in George Washington Carver, or the Joseph Stalin Vijayanathans found in Kerala, a holdover from the old days, before Communist sympathies in the state were replaced by computer software companies in the-world-is-flat mode.

Those two Piet Heins -- the naval hero (died 1629) and the composer of funny verses and clever games (died 197?)--can be honored in Holland and in Denmark. This other one, this Piet-Hein Donner, apparently thinks that should Muslims, so rashly permitted to settle in Holland (there were 15,000 Muslims in Holland in 1970, one million today), were by overbreeding to become a majority, that would be it -- and both kinds of legacies, the military legacy of Piet Hein the hero, specific to Holland, and the cultural legacy of Piet Hein the rhymer, left ot the entire West, would be lost.

And that is why this other Piet-Hein Donner should be attacked, should never be forgiven, should be voted out, for such a remark, and for what such a remark must mean.

"For me it is clear: if two-thirds of the Dutch population should want to introduce the Sharia tomorrow, then the possibility should exist,"

The muslim population of the Netherlands must be much higher than 10 or 15%..

Looks like the Netherlands is the first nation to join Eurabia.. Denmark is well on it's way, France then Germany.

The Genesis of the problem is the depletion of the population as a consequence of two devastating world wars..to meet the demand for labor, the corporate elite, the manufacturers, used their financial and political muscle to not only open immigration from the Islamic world, but to actively recruit muslims (and the policy is still in force, recruiting and subsidizing "professionals" and university students).

The same policy that is being followed by the REAL Republican Party, the corporate elite, the people of whom Bush said at a $10,000 a plate dinner.. "we have here, the haves and have mores, some folk call you the elite, I call you my base"..laughter.

Someone explain to me, why a conservative president that is fighting a war on terrorism against Islamic fascists, would permit Hojat e Islam Khatami (I didn't know that he had been promoted from Ayatollah) to visit the U.S., while declaring that Iran is the core of the Axis of Evil, and also solicit 15,000 Saudi Jihadis err students to enter the U.S., this just after 12 EGyptian (Students) disappeared into the population immediately after showing their passports and visa's to Customs.

I am not a believer of the demographic nightmare scene like Nariz above me. The current 7% of the population is good enough to start a vicious civil war.

Ontopic:
Piet Hein Donner is a mainstream conservative politician. He is unhandy in his communication to the nasty outer-world beyond The Hague and I do not seriously consider he is a true supporter of Islamic Law. He wants to be a political philosopher _and_ the minister of Justice while he can't be both at the same time. These stupid remarks give radicals the idea that the Dutch constitution is on the edge of collapsing en therefore these remarks energizes them.

That is a shame. But who cares, he will be gone after the next elections.

Mr. Piet Donner is insane. What is failed when we think about democracy in a Musslim controled society is that democracy, in most of those countries is viewed as: Nine wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner, in a western country we see democracy as: Nine wolves and one armed sheep making the choice. "mmm, grass doesn't sound bad." We arm the sheep with a Constitution and in the U.S. we arm them with arms,if they so like. Desiring sharia only because the majority chooses it, is suicide.

Back in the Stone Age when I took civics we discussed "tyranny of the majority" at length. At the time, people were sitting in at lunch counters, trying to get Negroes, as they were then known, the right vote in the south. Up in our safe Massachusetts classroom, we were trying to figure out why it was, exactly, that it was wrong to prevent people from voting, just because there were more of them on that side. And as it turns out, of course, there are plenty of places in the south where blacks are not, in fact, the minority race, but I digress. We did decide, more or less intuitively in the sixth grade, up in Massachusetts, that if our system, any civil system, were to have any force, people couldn't club together to do certain things to their neighbors, even if there were a very great many of them in agreement. We thought, for instance, that lynching might be a bad thing.

Donner apparently acquiesces, in theory, not merely to denying people rights and liberties, but to taking them away from people who already have them. It's too bad my sixth grade civics teacher isn't able to explain it to him in words of one syllable.

Netflix has sent me "When Worlds Collide" for tonight. Seems appropriate.

Just remember:

THERE IS NO GOD BUT DEMOCRACY, AND ITS PROPHET IS BUSH (PBUH)

Face Crawford and get on your knees!

What can one say in the face of such abject surrender of Dutch values? Pitiful? Disgraceful? Reprehensible? Shameful?

Yes, all that and more.

It's not enough to reassure us all but few people remember that after the Van Gogh murder and the subsequent riot of police and muslims the mosque in Utrecht has been burned.

Not only that, there was an attempt to burn the mosque in Huizen and to an islamic center in Breden (don't know if it's the right english name) and the mosque in Rotterdam, several leaflets anti-muslim have been found.

Doesn't seem to me that the dutch are THAT de-sensitized.

Does this mean that if a majority of Dutch citizens voted to slowly saw this man's head off, he would find the result acceptable?

Anyone from the Netherlands want to put this to the test?

Hugh and others--The original Piet Hein would be rolling over in his grave over his namesake's capitulation. The original was a typically stubborn 17th century Calvinist; and a bold warrior whose outnumbered fleet hijacked the Spanish treasure fleet off Cuba in 1628--disrupting the flow of Spanish gold used to fight the Netherlands during the Eighty Years' War.

Both the Dutch one, and the lively later Danish one. Rolling over.

The Netherlands is a country without a backbone.
It would not matter if the world would be full of peaceful people.
But Muslims are quietly invading Europe and The Netherlands is not ready to meet the challenge.

It will be paying for it dearly in the future.

Hugh,

I vaguely remember (I am of the old Martin- Gardner-Scientific American generation) but isn't there some refrain chanted by Dutch children about Piet Hein?

Piet Hein, Piet Hein . . .

The rest escapes me. I guess I can look it up.

To the good people of Holland....Remember these three words:

Theo van Gogh

This the refrain about the naval Piet Hein the Dutch children recite:

Refrain:
Piet Hein, Piet Hein, Piet Hein sin Nam is klein.
|: Sin Daten, de sünd grot, :|
Un he hett wunnen de sülwern Flott.
Un he het wunnen, ja wunnen
De sülwern Flott.

Roughly translated:

Piet Hein, Piet Hein, Piet Hein his name is small
But his deeds are tall

Anyway not the type of Dutchman as this present-day dhimmi genuflecting to the invaders of his homeland.

A better translation quizas:

Piet Hein, Piet Hein, great are his deeds but short is his name.

"Wyatt Earp, Wyatt Earp, brave, courageous and strong/Long may he live, and long be his glory/
And long may his story be told."

If it's good enough for Wyatt Earp, perhaps it will do as a partial version of the Dutch children's song about Piet Hein.

Thanks for the Wyatt Earp rerain, Hugh. I shall note it down for appropriate use.

I think this is, in English, what should be recited about the naval victor Piet Hein (who defeated the silver fleet [I think]):

Piet Hein, Piet Hein, short is his name, but long is his fame.

I read it in some old tome about pirates, privateers and other seafaring adventurers.

Piet Hein Donner is one of those dessicated lawyer types and he was answering questions put to his as a lawyer would and what he has said is unanswerable from a legal point of view. He stated the facts but then the Pope has just done the same and is being castigated by every carpet kisser from here to Mecca. The truth hurts. If you don't like it remember he was only telling it how it is, he wont be in parliament after the next elections in November.

Here by the way is a Grook from the Danish Piet Hein
please enjoy it I think it is applicable

Defence Wanted

In international consequences

The players must reckon
to reap what they've sown

We have a defence
against other defences

but what is to defend us
against our own?

In response, Donner said he was not in favor of Islamic law in the Netherlands, noting parts of Sharia conflicted with the Dutch constitution.

But he said that if enough people wanted Sharia, then the constitution would have to change. Source Which I assume is a statement of fact, just like in the U.S.A of the Senate passes a constitutional amendment (even a new constitution, or one that makes Shari'a the law of the land), and then 2/3rds of the States Legislatures vote and ratify it, then it becomes the law of the land.

I can understand

Piet Hein, Piet Hein, Piet Hein sin Nam is klein.
|: Sin Daten, de sünd grot, :|
Un he hett wunnen de sülwern Flott.
Un he het wunnen, ja wunnen
De sülwern Flott.

but it in no way represents current Dutch *at all*.

Sounds more like mix between German and Dutch.

This is the more current form:

Heb je van de zilveren vloot wel gehoord,
De zilveren vloot van Spanje?
Die had er veel Spaanse matten aan boord,
En appeltjes van Oranje.
Piet Hein!, Piet Hein!,
Piet Hein, zijn naam is klein,
Zijn daden bennen groot,
Zijn daden bennen groot:
Hij heeft gewonnen de Zilveren Vloot,
die heeft gewonnen, gewonnen de Zilveren Vloot.
die heeft gewonnen de Zilvervloot.

Did you hear about the silver fleet
the silver fleet of Spain
it had many Spanish mats (ingots?) on board
and oranges
Piet Hein, Piet Hein
Piet Hein, his name is short
his deeds be big
his deeds be big
hij has won the Silver Fleet
hij has won, won the Silver Fleet
hij has won the Silver fleet.

"For me it is clear: if two-thirds of the Dutch population should want to introduce the Sharia tomorrow, then the possibility should exist," according to Donner. "It would be a disgrace to say: 'That is not allowed!'."
...........

I've never understood how so many people, including our well-meaning President, can so fundamentally misunderstand Democracy. Democracy without checks and balances, and especially safeguards of rights for minorities (especially that ultimate minority, the individual) is no more than mob rule.

I am appalled by the spectacle of Bush and others warmly looking on as Iraqis and Afghanis vote in Islamic constitutions. He does mean well--it is just that he conflates the simplistic idea of voting with the much more complex concept of a fully functional, representative Democracy.

I misunderstood this myself at one time. When I was a child, I remember being completely stunned when I first found out the Hitler had been *elected* to the German Chancellory. (Before that I had assummed that the Nazis violently overthrew the last of the weak Weimar democrats).

Later I came to realize that even the fundamentally anti-democratic will at times use democratic institutions (the ballot box, the courts, media, etc) as shortcuts to acheive their goals--often laughing at the poor stupid "civilized" people who let them get away with it.

I hope the Dutch stand up to this idiocy at last.