Pakistan has a nuclear program based on the thefts of secrets by "Dr." A. Q. Khan, national hero of Pakistan, and willing sharer -- a Secret Sharer -- of such secrets with Iran and North Korea. Pakistan has been the incubator and promoter and supporter of the Taliban, the same Pakistan that has just announced plans to make 40-50 nuclear weapons a year.
Pakistan is a land of impoverished masses who find their solace in Islam and only Islam, while the anglophone families of zamindars and generals are hardly Muslims in their own lives. Their children enjoy English and American universities. Some of those children -- such as the son of the untrustworthy, but bearing-the-allure-of-rectitude Musharraf -- choose to remain (and why not? You would too), making their permanent lives in the Infidel West. (Did Musharraf himself pass out from the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurt, like so many of those "trustworthy" and "pro-Western" Terry-Thomas-mustachioed Pakistani generals who for decades won the heart of American geneals and civilian policymakers?) It is understandable that military men stay in Pakistan, for if you are not a zamindar, it is the best way to obtain power and money, but your children may head geographically Infidel-wards. English is not a problem. Musharraf’s son, when last he was in the news, was working as an accountant in Massachusetts.
Many of the richest Pakistanis, though they have chosen the sanity and safety of Infidel lands for their children (and for temporary frequent retreat for themselves), have apparently not used their mental freedom sufficiently. They have not bethought themselves about the nature of Islam and its connection to the hideous condition of Pakistan itself -- its political, economic, social, and intellectual failures. They have not considered the failure of Islamic countries in general, a failure directly attributable to the tenets and attitudes and atmospherics of Islam. Some of the most famous are sly defenders of the faith, even as they deplore terrorism. Ahmad Rashid, for example, for so long a correspondent for The Telegraph, and now made famous as an "expert" on the Taliban, declares in his "Jihad" that the word's primary meaning is that of the inner struggle rather than the outward war on Infidels.
Meanwhile, those zamindars permit or do not try to stop, and many of those generals support (see General Malik's book-length treatment of Jihad) the role of Pakistan in promoting terrorism against Hindus in Kashmir, and deep within India. And they offer refuge as well to Indian Muslims implicated in such terrorism. Where is that leader of the Mumbai underworld, the one now hiding from Indian authorities after the last terrorist attack? In Pakistan. Where is the ISI that has done nothing to stop, and much to promote, Lashkar-e-Toiba as it once promoted the Taliban? In Pakistan.
But it is not Pakistan alone that is the problem. It is India's appeasement of Pakistan, an appeasement possibly born of fear of local Muslim reaction. The Indian government, as Tavleen Singh points out in a recent article, continues to avoid admitting to itself, and is keeping carefully from the people of India, the existence of domestic Muslim terrorists who are self-propelled -- for fear of the reaction of Hindus, and what measures might then might be demanded, or might need to be taken. The government of India, just as governments of the Western world, is hiding the evidence of support of every kind for Muslim terrorists in Mumbai and elsewhere in India.
Pakistan is to blame, yes. But not Pakistan alone. A better formulation would be: Muslims, in India and in Pakistan, are working to terrorize the non-Muslims of India, and not only those in that part which gets attention in the West, the part known as Kashmir.
India and Pakistan began as independent states at the same time, under roughly the same conditions of development, and their different trajectories can be traced and compared. In political freedom, India has had steady or sometimes unsteady democracy, and Pakistan, a succession of mild or un-mild despots, zamindars or generals or zamindars-posing-as-men-of-the-people. In Hindu-dominated India, the Muslim population has increased, while in Pakistan (formerly West Pakistan), the Hindu population has gone from 14% to 1.5% of the population. In Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan), it has gone from 35% to 7% of the population.
In economic development there is no comparison. Pakistan is kept afloat, and has been kept afloat, only by Infidel aid -- whether through the disguised Jizyah of foreign, especially American, aid (which helped provide the money, beyond the level needed for subsistence, that was no doubt diverted for A. Q. Khan's nuclear project), or through the money received by Pakistanis, often in the form of welfare benefits, in England. The latter is a system riddled with fraud. These transfer payments within Great Britain is a kind of Jizyah as well, for it has led to unmerited transfers of wealth from the Infidel taxpayers of England to the Muslim recipients of every kind of benefit.
Socially, the position of women in both Pakistan and Bangladesh remains far below what it is in India, though in village India, among Hindus, it is hardly ideal. One has been made aware, by one famous example, of the continued mistreatment of rape victims in Muslim societies -- which are quickly attributed only to "cultural" factors.
Morally, the level of Pakistan and Bangladesh can be examined in the light of the attacks by the former on the later in 1970-71, and the mass killings by the Pakistani Army of Bangladeshis, in which local Muslim fanatics who believed that Pakistan had to remain one country “for the sake of Islam” aided them. They took pleasure, during the 1971 civil war, in killing fellow Bangladeshis. Nearly 2 million civilians were killed. Millions of Hindus fled, to be joined even by Muslims who were given refuge in India. These Muslim did not, however, offer the Infidel nation-state of India their loyalty; their loyalty remains, as it must, to Islam, and to the Umma.
Shall one go on? Shall the possibilities for art and literature, and a free press, be compared in India, and in Pakistan? Do it yourself.
Musharraf writes of those terrorists who managed to become citizens of England (England's great mistake) as if they were completely English. They are not. They are Pakistanis-in-England. By loyalty to Islam, to its tenets, by attitude and atmospherics, they have grown up in societies suffused with Islam, even if the streets they once played on were named Brick Lane or Balfour Crescent. They retain close ties to Pakistan, a source of brides, a place to send English entitlement money or even live on more cheaply than could be done in England. They are England's problem -- but they are also Pakistan's problem. Musharraf has spent much of his recent existence avoiding responsibilities, and not only to the United States, but also to Great Britain, to India, and to Afghanistan. Despite the ostentatious rectitude of his presentation of self, he is looking more meretricious every day. And now we will be treated to even more of the same, to study at our leisure.
Thanks to Simon. Thanks to Schuster.
I had to look up what you were referring to in my Funk and Wagnalls.
Hercule Poirot would have beamed at the loquacity of the "meretricious" musharraf.
The Indian government wants to stay in power, hence the mollycoddling of muslims. It does not really fear the Hindus' reaction as the so called *rage* of Hindus is shortlived and can be doused by heavy doses of silly indian movies,(khans and ibrahims cavorting around) cricket, urdu couplets spouted in soirees and juvenile gandi styled interpretation of *religion*. The muslimes in India are further emboldened by the support of communists among Hindus. Add to that pc infected media. Unlike people who post here, a majority of Hindus in India don't know or care to know what islam means. Supinely lackadaisical. Charles Shobraj trenchantly observed:
"Indians are so stupid, I can sell them even wind.."
The same Tavleen Singh was a shilly shallying islam apologist imagining a dichotomy existed between "moderates"(sic) and fanatics. It took a couple of bomb attacks to jolt her senses bringing her current volte-face.
Muslimes be they in any part of the world, be they women or children are EVIL, period. No milk of human kindness sloshing inside them.
afghanisthan or beggardesh(bangladesh)or pukeisthan or within India, empowering them in any way (including meeting their calories and protein requirements when inshallah disasters strike them) tantamounts to endangering ourselves.
Posting an excerpt from Oriana Fallaci:
The "impure" means Hindus.And the 20,000 "faithful" are muslimes--women.
"To make you cry I’ll tell you about the twelve young impure men I saw executed at Dacca at the end of the Bangladesh war. They executed them on the field of Dacca stadium, with bayonet blows to the torso or abdomen, in the presence of twenty thousand faithful who applauded in the name of God from the bleachers. They thundered "Allah akbar, Allah akbar." Yes, I know: the ancient Romans, those ancient Romans of whom my culture is so proud, entertained themselves in the Coliseum by watching the deaths of Christians fed to the lions. I know, I know: in every country of Europe the Christians, those Christians whose contribution to the History of Thought I recognize despite my atheism, entertained themselves by watching the burning of heretics. But a lot of time has passed since then, we have become a little more civilized, and even the sons of Allah ought to have figured out by now that certain things are just not done. After the twelve impure young men they killed a little boy who had thrown himself at the executioners to save his brother who had been condemned to death. They smashed his head with their combat boots. And if you don’t believe it, well, reread my report or the reports of the French and German journalists who, horrified as I was, were there with me. Or better: look at the photographs that one of them took. Anyway this isn’t even what I want to underline. It’s that, at the conclusion of the slaughter, the twenty thousand faithful (many of whom were women) left the bleachers and went down on the field. Not as a disorganized mob, no. In an orderly manner, with solemnity. They slowly formed a line and, again in the name of God, walked over the cadavers. All the while thundering Allah–akbar, Allah–akbar. They destroyed them like the Twin Towers of New York. They reduced them to a bleeding carpet of smashed bones."
>>>Where is that leader of the Mumbai underworld, the one now hiding from Indian authorities after the last terrorist attack? In Pakistan>>>
Better he stays in pukeisthan as chances of he getting eliminated are brighter there. In India he would get overwhelming support of many muslimes and would end up a minister in charge of trade or whatever. Contemporary India is outrageoulsy corrupt.
muslimes within India enjoy the utmost protection. They need to be thrown out along with their supporters into the sands of saudi or pukiland.
If Islam is the sole source of solace for these people then they have my sympathy.
isnt it also true that pakistan is also one of the top 3 corrupt nations on earth
Many thanks Hugh.
Musharrif takes his playbook from the "liberals" of the West.
Great analysis.Great exposure.
I saw a video today on NDTV: children in Kashmir (both Indian and Pak-occupied) are training as militants. The Pakis are a bunch of losers whose sole purpose in life seems to be kill and die.
Give the Hindus some credit. It is the same Hindu nation that dismembered Pakistan and saved the world from a bigger trouble. It is a matter of time before Pakistan is dismembered again. There is no way they can keep antagonizing an economy ten times bigger (and slated to be one of the largest in another ten to fifteen years) and not suffer for it. Lets be patient, one day an Indian defence minister is going to call up the Pakis and threaten to bomb them into the stone age. The Paki dictator at that time will do a war game and meekly capitulate.
Pakistan that has just announced plans to make 40-50 nuclear weapons a year.
This impoverished country has enough money for such a program? There's the problem with Pakistan-screwed up priorities! Of course they think they need these weapons to keep those warmongering Hindus at bay,right? Something tells me that if India was as belligerent as Pakistan thinks India would have easily swept that place out of existence long ago, considering the huge disparity in size.
The problem of Pakistan has many implications for the rest of the world, but more so for India.
The Pakistani military, which is already heavily islamised, sympathises with, and abets the terrorists against India, as an important aspect of islamic Jihad against the dar-ul-harb. While Musharraf may be meretricious - at this point, he is strangely, an important, even if reluctant ally, in controlling the radical elements in Pakistan. But it is only a matter of time when the numbers supporting the terrorist outfits become overwhelming for any army or dictator to deal with. These groups are another Taliban, increasingly staffed with the otherwise economically unemployed youth of Pakistan. The Sunni groups funded by Saudis and Shia groups by the Iranians are providing a socially acceptable and, in fact, desirable, form of employment.
After Musharraf, we can be certain of a fundamentalist disaster overtaking Pakistan. Disaster, because islamic hawks and radicals will now have access to the Bomb, to be used to further islamic jihad around the world.
With the demographics in the subcontinent moving swiftly towards a muslim majority, aided and abetted by its own large and faster growing muslim population, India is really a low hanging fruit ready to be gobbled up by islam.
India's foolish governments have lulled their Hindu population into a state of benign stupor, oblivious of the viciousness and clear objective of islam in India: that of the subjugation of its Infidel population. This is thanks to a careful vetting of all history and text books by the government AND the PC media which goes out of its way to rake up any perceived wrong to the muslims, however minor and obscure it may be, while ignoring, playing down or distorting all news of muslim atrocities.
The Indian leaders and their media is a bunch of pussyfooting idiots when it comes to dealing with muslims. The recent blasts at a Shia muslim gathering in Malegaon were clearly Sunni sponsored, but no one in the Indian government or media ventured to even speculate publicly on this possibility, darkly hinting at Hindu terrorists, an imaginary breed, being responsible. The reason is not any subtlety on their part, but ignorance of even the basics of islam.
The much lauded democracy of India is being manipulated and perverted by its corrupt and ignorant leaders who are mesmerised by the muslim bloc vote - yes, muslims vote en bloc and this gives them an enormous power compared to the fragmented voting patterns of all others. India a Dhimmi state from its independence, is being led fast and steadily to subjugation by islam, through the democratic process.
An islamic India is the nightmare the rest of the world would not even want to think about.
Dunk has largely captured the situation as it stands today in India. I live in India and have an inside view of the situation. India is well on its way to become Islamic. The only reason why it is not yet so is because of its size and the fortunate happenstance of not being literate in the current sense of the word(of being able to read and write and earn for oneself by doing so). As it is becoming literate it is becoming Un-Hindu--mostly Islamic and now Christian(not that the two are same--but definetly they are not Hindu in spirit). You can largely see the effect on most literate states--Kerala(almost 100%) and West Bengal--both communist Govts--and large Muslim/christian majorities. The most Hindu states are Rajasthan/Madhya Pradesh etc--the most illiterate in the modern sense., Hindus in India face the predicament that Christians in America face. They are live and let live people not fond of fighting for the sake of fighting or even on provocation. But the thing to remember is that for 800yrs now they have been ruled by non-hindus(600 Muslim/200 Christian) and they are still Hindus. Is it anything funny that there are dhimmis here...the whole Hindu religion has become a dhimmi.Compare that with Muslim presence(just presence as in being there and not rulers--keep in mind) in Europe and now in US...and let us see if there will be any Christian left within 100-200 yrs. I hope there will be since I am as allergic to anything Islamic as anybody here, but is that realistic? Well looking at France, England and Sweden-- it does not seem to be so.
RT
Dunk:
"The Indian leaders and their media is a bunch of pussyfooting idiots...."
Absolutely. Even the non muslim ones come up with typically *islamic* (read intolerant)knee jerk responses.Instead of setting our own house in order.
Recently the Dutch Ambassador remarked about the chaotic state of affairs in India, which I completely agree with. At once people in 'high places' came out with angry responses.And one columnist wrote "this is the country that harassed a group of fidgety garment exporters..."
How did those 12 muslimes,potential terrorists refusing to obey rules and fiddling with cell phones in midair metamorphose into "fidgety garment exporters"?? When we the people of India are utterly disgusted with the anarchic conditions why flare up when the Dutch Ambassador point it out? Are our maladies to be cossetted and cradled?
Hugh
On your mention of AQ Khan's project, in his new autobiography, Musharraf claims that India stole Pakistan's blueprints for nukes and became a nuclear power that way.
Crows&Cows, Dunk & RT
This is some of the most depressing news I've heard in a while. Just yesterday, my spirits were brightened up reading in Wikipedia about how India is no longer interested in OIC membership.
Maybe I should avoid any dual citizenship whenever I take up US citizenship.
Musharrif appeared on the Daily Show with John Stewart (it should be repeated today). After offering him, with exaggerated Arabic hospitality, tea and a Twinkie, the first question was "Where is bin Laden?". The interview ended with "George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden -- be truthful -- who would win a popular vote in Pakistan?".
(Hint: the most popular name for babies in Pakistan is not "George W.").
The "serious" journalists may not get it, but the truth about Islam is obvious to the comedians.
I showed Hugh's article to a politically knowledgeable penpal in India and asked him if there wasn't some truth to the claim that India had been 'appeasing' Pakistan, especially on the part of the more left-leaning Congress party. His reply:
"You write 'some truth'. Some truth? No, it's all true. Allowing the creation of Pakistan qualifies as appeasement as nothing else does. Even the BJP started buses to Lahore ('confidence building') and received the Kargil war in return (orchestrated by then-only-General Mush). Hugh Fitzgerald's statement is fully true."
There is resounding confirmation for Hugh from my 'correspondent on the ground', who doesn't think too highly of Islam, by the way!
Infidel Pride,
American Citizenship is obviously to be desired for as "the mind can be without fear and the head held high". But don't foreclose India as an option for dual one. Some day, in the future,I fervently pray things would change. True to the Spirit of our Rig Veda "Noble Thoughts Would Flow To All of Us from all Directions" then.
I had no idea India was in this bad of shape until seeing these posts. Sad, depressing and frightening. A taste of what will pass in the West(if it hasn't happened yet).
Schizophrenic India's PM madmoron called pukisthan a "victim of terrorism like India" and talked about "joint anti terror mechanism". While the Defence Minister says (rightly) pukisthan "is the nursery of global terrorism".
The only anti dhimmi Daily Pioneer of India says "It amounts to a monumental appeasement policy, not seen since a British Prime Minister came back from Berlin in 1936, brandishing his umbrella and a bogus promise of peace".
The overly hyped Vajpayee went about hugging mullahs and none of the present so called "leaders" inspire much hope or trust.Even Modi, it gets reported is veering towards imperceptible appeasement to hold onto power.He harangued about terrorism but never mentioned islam.Instead said "terrorism knows no religion".
RT:
"the whole Hindu religion has become a dhimmi"
The truth--Spirituality which is what Hinduism is, has been turned into a HUgely lucrative marketable commodity by charlatans who Jesus Christ calls "false prophets".They have set up bases in Europe and America also conning many Westerners. George Bush was also seen in a photograph with one such self pimping *false prophet*.
India is pro muslim and anti Hindu .Spiritually & Ethically bankrupt.I will give you just two examples.
When bbc was going to air a no holds barred expose about a notorious paedophile *godman* of India, the Hindutva peddler Vajpayee armtwisted British government into heavy pruning and editing. And bbc had to comply as it was linked to the purchase of armamment(helicopter/pistol/whatever)from UK by India.
When saudi decreed the eye of a muslim from India be gouged out as punishment for an equally heinous premeditated crime committed by him, the influential ndtv crew(unmitigatedly communistleftist rent a cause) along with a muslime minister travelled to saudi, exerted pressure and wangled a blanket pardon for that muslime.
India, it gets reported is flush with money. But money in the wrong hands empowering wrong people is cause for alarm.
@Cross&Crows:
But don't foreclose India as an option for dual one.
India has been swallowed by Islam. This July i was in India visiting my ancestral home Alibaug which is lies just south of Bombay. The town now has a Muslim majority population. Burqa clad women, Urdu/Arabic sign boards, 2 eyesores of mosques and a madrassa... i broke down.
Secular India has not only systematically destroyed sense of unity amongst Hindus but also let this Islamist monster grow from within and without.
V. S. Naipaul is a lone truth-teller. He can afford to be, some might argue, but I think there is also the desire of so many non-Muslim Indians, who live in the West or become famous in the West, to demonstrate that they, at least, have not a bit of soi-disant "communalism" about them. This means, for those who do not know the secret code, that they must demonstrate, as non-Muslims, that they absolutely have nothing at all against Islam, have nothing to do with -- are mortally embarrassed by -- anything smacking of Hindutva, and Sita Ram Goel, and even the work of such historians as K. S. Lal.
Western students of Hindu India, such as Francois Gautier and Koenraad Elst, on the other hand, have nothing to prove, no need to show that they are not fellow-travellers of the crudest, crassest (as Muslim propaganda manages always to make it seem) expressions of Hindutva sentiments. It maddens. It maddens intelligent Indians of the kind who are not busy polishing their credentials in the West, and do not feel the need to play to Western received opinion but who, rather, prefer to explain to Westerners what Islam did to India, and what it is liable to do as well to the West.
One hopes -- dreams -- that Indian academics and businessmen from Route 128 to Mountain View will slough off that attitude (for one embodiment, just look at Amartya Sen and his vaporings, in recent years, about Islam -- often smuggled in in what appear to be more general discussions, but always ending up as whitewashes of Islam), and begin to see India, and Islam, clearly -- without any desire to curry favor among, by repeating the same baseless banalities about the essential goodness and harmlessness of Islam, that infect so many in the West.
One hopes.
Former Muslim-turned-secularist and private secretary to Jinnah, and later Indian Ambassador to Iran, M R A Baig ('The Muslim Dilemma in India' 1974) nails it by identifying the mindset:
"I am fully aware how difficult it is for Muslims to accept new ideas and concepts in the rigid structure of their dogma-bound minds, especially if such ideas are unorthodox and heretical. But if I hurt religious susceptibilities, I am unrepentant. I am examining why the Muslim Indian is the problem child of the Indian family... The belief that no social progress is possible without revelation has led Muslim Indians into a blind alley. It is true that there are provisions in Islam for ijma, ijtihad and qiyas, but these processes of change have been claimed by the ulema with their blinkered arrogance as their exclusive responsibility..."
Baig goes on to identity reasons for the growing disparity between India's Muslims and non-Muslims, pulling no punches:
"Mortgaging the mind to the imam", "the practice of mnemonic memory which attributes great virtue to knowing by heart lengthy paasages in Arabic...such practices certainly diminish independent thinking and intellectual curiosity. In fact, enquiry does not arise since the Quran and sacrosanct traditions have provided the answers before the questions are even raised."
He goes on to cite Muslim Indians' arrogant unwillingness to try to understand the spirit of Hinduism, an inability to grasp the linguistic and educational and vocational opportunities available to both sexes, content instead to blame everyone but themselves for the disparities.. "To this day Muslims have not caught up the educational gap that was created while they either slept, sulked, or mourned the past", noting "the ulema were always opposed to modern education...".
"There can be no sin in progress; but there is great sin in stagnation. One has merely to travel through the 'Muslim World', as has this author, to be forcibly struck by the fact that whether individuals or nations the less they observe the social precepts of Islam the more they are evolved and, one cannot avoid the word, civilized".
Thirty years on, has anything changed?
Hugh,
Cant blame those Indians in US, most of them unlike Naipaul undervent through dhimmi indoctrination in India socialist dominated education system.
Hugh,
Cant blame those Indians in US, most of them unlike Naipaul undervent thorough dhimmi indoctrination in India socialist dominated education system.
Vikrant & Crows&Cows
Last time I visited Calcutta and was channel surfing, one of the channels I stumbled into was QTV. It was one of those 24 hour Quran recitations - in Arabic and Urdu. I was shocked that such a thing has a market - the only Hindu equivalents of those are the Astrology channels; one doesn't see Ramayana or Mahabharata recitations.
I don't know what to think as far as trends go. In the early 90s, the rise of the BJP was cause for hope, even though some of their policies, like Swadeshi, were idiotic. Problem within the BJP remains that the dhimmis within the party - Jaswant Singh, Vajpayee, et al - are the main hope for reform; the Hindutva section (with the exception of Arun Shourie and now dead Pramode Mahajan) was tightly linked with the Swadeshi jagaran. But the bigger problem is that to come to power, they need to be allied with regional dhimmi parties, who are no different from the Congress or even Marxists. Therefore, when the BJP depends on those parties while it is in government, it's unable to take an aggressively anti-Islamic stand because of such 'allies'.
Here in the US, if guys like Dinesh D'Souza, Ramesh Pannuru and Bobby Jindal can take the first steps, that would be an improvement.
I don't think Dinesh D'Souza is a likely standard-bearer for Hindu India.
As for BJP, methinks it has been effectively neutralised, Shiv Sena is on the wane, Hindutva is a dying movement with papa RSS busy discovering 'patriotic Muslims'.
I think when BJP was in power it should have systematically destroyed leftist/Marxist control of intellectual discourse in India. That alone would have ensured its grip on power. But with Congress and Commies consolidating i doubt whether BJP will be back in power in 2009. Most probably in 2009, we may have a three way split between Left Front, Congress and BJP. Left Front might then go on to woo regional parties and New Delhi will be theirs. And that my friend would sound a death knell for Hinduism accelerating the Islamic takeover of India.
I guess at this point it would seem like naval gazing and trying to find the true meaning of life.
Is there a possibility that Pakistan and India, both nuclear powers, would go to war with each other? I have surmised that after the Muslams make their impact on the west, or conquered it, that they would have a civil war with each other. They bascially have a case of rabies/syphilis and will consume themselves. Would they do it with the nuclear power that they already possess? If we kept Iran from attaining a nuclear weapon status, could they then buy it from an Islamic India?
Enquiring minds want to know!
God willing, of course.
I really hope this is not true. aq might have access to pac's nukes.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/TonyBlankley/2006/09/27/a_battle_lost_in_the_war_on_terror
A battle lost in the war on terror
By Tony Blankley
With little reporting, and almost without media or governmental comment, the United States has suffered a substantial defeat in the war against radical Islam. Three weeks ago, Pakistan signed the terms of the Waziristan Accord with the northern region of its country called North Waziristan. It was, effectively, the terms of surrender by Pakistan to the Taliban and al Qaeda, which dominate North Waziristan. Pakistan has negotiated a separate peace -- the eternal danger to any wartime alliance.
Assalamau-Laikum all,
Pak has it's problems yes...just like other countries. Significant peoples are investing but we have had the problem of the Sardars in Baloch and the death of Bughti..the founding father of Baloch has not helped.
Muslims in Pak have a never say die attitude....but also die as shahids.
Despite India's size and power...they are ruled by hindus...who for generations have had the mentality of being ruled over.
They cannot help it...for over 800 years ...it's always been ...yes sultan ji, nawab ji, sardar ji or sahib ji.
So it is left for the Pak to dominate the regional area not India. The dynamics will change significantly once Mushi is replaced....and the lathargic hindu will look on in horror but accept the situation ...as he always has...isn't that right Vicrant.
So, the challenge for Pak is how to handle Afghanistan...and Nato is doing that for us, leaving the whole of South Asia ...Islamic....truly Allah works in wonderous ways.
"Pakistan is on the edge of chaos." said a leaked report by an MoD think tank, reported by the BBC's Newsnight tonight. Besides stating that the ISI was hand in glove with al Qaeda and the Taliban it also maintained that Musharraf, by his alliance with the MMA, was running with the fox as well as hunting with the hounds.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Pakistani army was committing mass rape in Baluchistan - it's their style. Perhaps, when the Pakistan does slide into anarchy, they will try the same technique on their Ahmadis. Better watch out, Naseem.
Naseem
Doesn't look like Ahmadiyas are doing any better. Maybe invent a tomb of Mohammed in La-Whore - Christ's tomb in Srinagar did squat.
Also, India isn't ruled by Hindus - they are ruled by quasi-Leftists - from Nehru to Sonia. Even the NDA government that was there previously had too many regional Leftist dhimmi components to be effective. Had India been run by Hindus, such as Rana Kumbha, Shivaji, Baji Rao, or by Sikhs such as Ranjit Singh or Hari Singh Nalwa, they'd have made Pakistan Kabarstan - a 340,000 sq mile dargah.
But don't worry. A few more of these 7/11's (we all know they'll happen), and India's dhimmi politicians won't survive. All of them will go down the tubes.
Hmmmm... Convert to Islam or die?
Let me think... OK I choose death, but you first.
160,000,000 muslims in Pakistan
147,000,000 muslims in India
trouble is brewing
Constantine
Number for India is 133,000,000
Shouldn't alter your conclusions, though.
My data is from the CIA world factbook here https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html#People
13.4% of 1.095 billion = 146.73 million
But I'm not sure it isn't higher than that as that is only an estimate. I wouldn't assume it was lower.
And reading this stuff is scary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OIC#Future_membership
Islam is conquering the world one county at a time.
Who will stand against it in the west?
Constantine
I thought that was one silver lining in an otherwise ugly situation. Given the grovelling before the ummah that India had been historically doing, even those cretins read the writing on the wall that the OIC wouldn't take India's side against Pakistan on Kashmir, and what was worse, recognized the whole state - Kashmir, Jammu, Ladakh - as Fuckistani territory. After they went on to condemn India for the counter-terrorist measures in Kashmir, India snapped relations with them, and ended its long quest for OIC membership. (What I don't know is whether this was before 9/11 or after - not doing it after 9/11 would look like a no-brainer, since such a move would have suggested India's endorsement of the Jihad against the US.)
For once, I'd have to thank Fuckistan - after all, countries like Surinam, Guyana and Mozambique, which have Muslim populations of 15%, are members. Had it not been for Fuckistan, India too would have been a member.
As for the last question, it'll have to be a grassroots campaign. I wonder how many US congressional candidates have taken any positions against Islam?
Constantine,
My number was from a recent India Today magazine article. It's by no means the last word, but those numbers look more credible.
There's an interesting note on the controversy over the political incorrectness of India's 2001 Census population figures that show a sharp increase in muslim population.
"The Census 2001 statistics have attracted so much attention partly on account of the security and economic implications of illicit immigration from Bangladesh, and partly because the growth rate of most native religious groups [HINDUS, SIKHS, BUDDHISTS,JAINS - Dunk] has stagnated or declined.
The Muslim community scored poorly on development indices such as literacy and employment, and virtually confined its contribution to the national kitty to demographics [THEY ARE CONSISTENT IN THIS REGARD ACROSS THE WORLD - Dunk].
This has understandably frightened the Hindu majority, especially since the Minister of State for Home, Mr. Sriprakash Jaiswal, went so far as to demand a ban on release of population figures of different religious groups. Some politicians even foolishly asked the rationale behind collecting such figures." Lovely PC bastards!
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0904/34.html
After listening to this guy call everyone a liar in an interview I really have no reason to trust him.
It has been well over 5 years since 9/11 and the rodeo clown Bin Laden and his lackeys are still alive. What a disgrace. And don't tell me the head of the beast is not important anymore, or that the leadership deaths would not make a difference in the long term fight. We know that. Instead of finishing the mission, our soldiers are yanked and forced to become slow moving targets in Iraq.
It all makes me sick and Pakistan's peace deals makes me even sicker.
My prediction: Indonesia is going to become another Pakistan in the next few years.
Crows&Cows..
The point I tried to make was that India(with a majority Hindu but very large minority Muslim) is no more dhimmi than any of the current Christian(Spiritually & Ethically uncorrupt, I presume) nations. My point was that probably it is less Dhimmi if you look at History. Another point Paedophile Gurus(Prophets as you call them--Hinduism does not have prophets) don't represent Hindus anymore than the current crop of paedophile priests increasingly defrocked in American churches(and some do escape as the one who was moved to Rome insted of facing the music in America).
Hugh..
Affordability of a VS Naipul does not stem from being away from influence of India(am presuming that it is your argument) but probably breaking through the shackles of self imposed dhimmitude as another poster pointed out there are millions of Hindus around the world who have nothing to do with India but shackled in their minds. Ram Swarup, Sitaram Goel prove that it is affordable to do so being in India. I guess it is similar to the self imposed chains that bind the Muslims out of which a very very few courageous--Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq kind of people break through.
RT
Problem of Islamic terror started with the creation of Pakistan. And it can only be blamed on the cowardice of Hindus. The fucking scriptures of Hindus, tell that all paths lead to God, no one has monopoly on God. Fucking Hindu God has said, that God is only one, and whoever worship HIm in any way and any form, God is intelligent enough to know it. Similar is the tolerance of fucking Buddhists, Jains etc. As South EAst ASia (PRedominantly BUddhist and Hindu) has become Muslim, China become communists (considered as cousins by Muslims, becuase they feel that communists are most likely converts), so India will also be a Muslim country long before Inshallah, or would be divided between Christians and Muslims.
Hugh is right about Naipaul. Also right in his assessment of amartya sen and dinesh d'souza.
However, a word of caution about Francois Gautier.Generally his columns are balanced.But he has become a promoter of the indian (international)self pimping charlatan.Francois has been writing Hindus worldwide should unite under the conmanguru who would issue fatwas/edicts binding on all of us.The background of that Nobel Peace Prize chasing "charlatan":
His father, a truck cleaner while living in Chennai(Madras)promoted a dubious chit fund scheme(akin to lottery).To chase away the creditors the entire family moved over to Bangalore.This *son* promised to bail out his family by becoming a 'godman'; grew a beard; of course rehashing and recycling of Scriptural Truths with characteristic panache and spicing it up with Pranayama kriyas(breathing techniques)built a huge empire with the mandatory charities & donations.Many Westerners have had their money siphoned off by him.He owns a private jet too.
Such is the murky background of all our charlatans.Narendra Modi too genuflects before him. Underworld don dawood's paramour-an indian film actress is one of his pet proteges. So is yasin malik of JKLF(Jammu& Kashmir Liberation Front).He has a lot of lynch mobs to "take care" of whistle blowers. And I am very much a Hindu living in India.
Reason for my writing this is linked to my respect and admiration for America and truth loving, plucky Westerners in general(Internet too).The hindu bloggers muzzled me when I wrote about him.It was an American who has been in this "gurubusting" who gave me the forum to speak out the truth.
"Waziristan Accord"?
Well, isn't that special. How about, up your Wazirs, Pakis!!
Could that be Paki for Was-he-ever-here-istan.
They claim there are 1.something billion of them world wide right now. Well, so what. By very good accounting there are now about 2.2 billion Christians world wide. There is nothing new under the sun. History repeats itself and if they succeed in doing something big in the USA, the sleeping giant will arise again, just like Pearl Harbor, and smack em down real hard.
Like Old Sarge said, its time for some real whoop-ass!!
pagan,
Did I call you 'chicken' once ?
RT,
America HAS defrocked paedophile priests.It was again America that cracked down on rajneesh.Indians (yes hindus)apotheosize them.
Be they judges,lawyers,police,government officials,army personnel--most of them are followers of indian charlatans.They wield ENORmous money and muscle power.One of the charlatans has a crematorium inside his precincts for dissenters.
And Indians when cornered, would istantly do finger pointing blaming everything on British Rule. But not a whimper about islam. Or self introspection.
Vikrant_Camberleykar,
Lol...yes "rss is busy dicovering patriotic muslimes"..and coming up with 'sagacious' conclusions like:
"...they participate in hindu festivals, eat sweets made by us,hug us...hence our own brothers..patriotic..mmm..."
I am sure all those trillions of Hindus slaughtered by muslimes must have celebrated all festivals with more gusto.The Hindus of Kashmir before being raped and having their throats slit
are ordered to cook a meal,make tea and play the perfect hosts. The muslimes are quite consistent as Devils. It is we,the indians who are adamantinely hell bent on servicing them.
IP, Constantine
The Indian 2001 Census gives a muslim population of 138m. With a decadal growth of ~30%(rest of the Indians are at under 20%)that should make it a little short of 160m now, after 5 years.
www.censusindia.net/religiondata/Summary%20Muslims.pdf
http://www.censusindia.net/religiondata/Brief_analysis.pdf
As a consolidated vote bloc, that's a huge number which is beginning to set the political direction in India. The muslim tail is already wagging the Indian democracy. Two of the four states with a muslim pop of over 25%, Kerala and West Bengal (Assam and Kashmir are the other two) have COMMUNIST governments permanently propped up with muslim support. This is a smart ploy for the time being - help the obliging left as long as it suits you.
Could that also be the reason the left parties and the leftist staffed, heavily biased media in India, go out of their way to take up cudgels on behalf of the muslims on all issues, including rubbishing all concerns about the muslim population growth?
>>>Could that also be the reason the left parties and the leftist staffed, heavily biased media in India, go out of their way to take up cudgels on behalf of the muslims on all issues, including rubbishing all concerns about the muslim population growth?>>>
Dunk, you are right. muslimes of India recently proclaimed they are going to ally with communist parties having lost "trust in congress".
What is intriguing and shocking is antonio maino alias sonia gandi has not uttered a syllable of support in favour of Pope Ratzinger after he quoted the Byzantine Emperor. What vermins are these...that are solely and excessively loyal to money and power alone??
Crows&Cows/Hugh
I originally overlooked Hugh's comment on Dinesh D'Souza. Anyway, my point about Dinesh D'Souza and Bobby Jindal - both Catholics - wasn't that they'd be the standard bearer of Hindu India, but rather, that they, being Right wing advocates, would be more in line with the GOP mainstream in criticizing at least 'Islamo-Fascism', if not Islam. I don't know what Ramesh Pannuru is (Hindu or Christian), but she (at least I think it's a she, from her voice) does sound like a very strident social conservative. Between the 3, they could at least make a case against the Islamic threat, even if they didn't choose to take up cudgels on behalf of Hindus. Since Hindus don't tend to do it for themselves, I don't expect others to do it for them.
Also, Sonia Maino Gandhi has a major job on her hands proving that she isn't a foreigner, so it's very unlikely that she'd bat for the Pope. I don't hold that against her, but I do blame her for allowing the Congress to continue to play dhimmi despite the escalation of the Jihad since 2000.
Infidel Pride,
sonia the superconslut, also a muslime appeaser won't last long.Have not much idea about other names mentioned by you. Hindus will get a taste of islam in the days to come and the pain WILL ensure that they wake up.
Crows&Cows
I hope the fissures between the Congress and the Left - accelarated by the swollen heads of the latter as a result of their thumping victories in Kerala and Left Bengal - will bring down this regime soon. And while I don't wish it, I think another terror attack will embolden the more aggressive Hindutva section of the Sangh Parivar. I think you and Vikrant are writing them off too fast - this is the organization that got rid of Advani after his inane comments about Jinnah. While I don't condone what the RSS is doing, I think it's easier to pull their constituency out of a pro-Islamic stupor, than it is to do that with the backers of either the Congress or the Left.
Dinesh D'Souza you mentioned - he's a right wing author here in the US, and has attracted opprobrium from the Left due to his uncharitable description of race relations in the US. Bobby Jindal is a Republican congressman from Louisiana, who narrowly lost the last governors election there: if he were to try again, he might do better, given Kathleen Blanco's bungling of Hurricane Katrina. Ramesh Pannuru is a conservative activist who recently released a new book called 'Deathocrats' (about Democrats and their fascination with issues like abortion and euthanisia). My original point was that if these India born people, like Naipaul, took the lead and spoke out against Islam, others might follow.
Infidel Pride,
Thank you.
Sangh paivar or any organization, Hindus are unable to forge solidarity among themselves. One of the important reasons was pointed out by Hugh earlier--lack of intellectual cogitation.
"I think it's easier to pull their constituency out of a pro-Islamic stupor"..Agree with you.
Someone like Naipaul who truly FEELS from within for Hindu civilization's demise was denied due recognition in India by a lot of "intellectual opium eating" Hindus.
Being a South Indian,I was aghast when many well known writers were carping and slinging mud on him (in the regional press) just because he happened to know much more about India than those born-bred-died in India idiots. Also because he unhesitatingly told the truth upfront to the pc infected zombies.
Some jingoistic hindus write "we should tap into indigenous knowledge systems like Ayurvedam etc to economically exploit(sic)the West(sic).
This bluster of becoming a "superpower of 21st century" ought to be rooted out from a Hindu's mind. Agendas bearing plotters seldom achieve anything.
It is the Same Creator who takes Splendid Care of the West as much as the 'love-hate West' syndrome afflicted India.
Infidel Pride,
About "race relations in the US".
Well ,I don't buy that anymore.Living in India in the midst of Indians,I feel so alienated and have become a recluse by default.If at all a Westerner says something not very complementary about an Indian I would be inclined to agree with him.
Crows&Crows,
It is probably because you don't try to be genuinely friendly with them.
Have you tried learning their language?
It helps. Language will give you a deeper insight into their ways and a special relationship with a culture. Nothing beats it.
JC Levi Strauss (the French ethnologist)said that the European civilization and the indian civilization could have met each other and enrich each other, but Islam became like a wedge between them, putting a distance that would have not been there.
He points out the many points in common between classical Greek theology and Hindu theology and laments that Islam came in between.
Rocky,
Sorry. Can't get you.Learn whose language? Whose culture? Mother tongue is Tamil.Fairly ok in Hindi& Bengali.
Crows&cows,
You won't get the meaning of what any sane person states. And it would be good for us if you just migrated to Lanka, instead of India.
Good for a.s like you as well.
arjun.sevak,
you wrote:
"pagan,
Did I call you 'chicken' once ?
Posted by: arjun.sevak "
I do not remember.
Crows&Cows
Sorry, You sounded like a foreigner living in India.
Rocky,
Thank you for clarifying.It is alright.Point I am trying to make is Hindus unlike Jews and many non pc Westerners are not able to function as a cohesive unit.Lack of clear objectives/vision and erosion of ethical values are the main reasons I feel.If you read my earlier posts, you would understand.
Aside that, I completely agree with what you have written that Hindu philosophy and Vedaantham are not antithetical to European civilization and Jesus Christ's Spoken Words of Wisdom.Agreed,I was denied access to Sanskrit and our Classics by marxist mullah nexus inspired indian education system.But the silver linings in the cloud were access to English Literature(Carlyle,Edmund Burke,Shakespeare,Milton,Tennyson,Goldsmith,JonathanSwift and so on) and the valuable lessons learnt at my grandparents' and parents'knees at HOME( Srimad Bhagavatham,Upanishads,Ramayanam and so on)No institution or indoctrination can really thwart one's 'Education', if one's quest for Truth is sincere and God's Grace operates then.
Nice talking to you! May islime perish leaving us all in Peace!! Amen!!!
Guys, Hugh especially, you need to calm down.
I agree with most of the analysis of Pakistan and it both saddened and disgusted me to see Musharraf parade around the world blaming everyone and everything but himself for his problems. But he did say one revealing thing - that the interests of Pakistan were uppermost in his mind. And I believe that the interests of Pakistan are completely divergent from the interests of all the other parties it is currently in an alliance with. The President's biography was so full of playing-to-the-gallery semantics and outright lies that it made for very aggravating reading. But, to stay on topic, I believe that all your dire forecasts for India are way out of the ballpark.
India is not a monolithic entity. If one were to draw some kind of commonality out of the divergence of India, my personal answer to the question of 'what does it mean to be indian' would be the cult of personal advancement.
Democracy has not survived for so long in India because we are a people who stick to principle. It has survived because it is the fastest and most convenient way to material prosperity and personal advancement. The average indian citizen cares more about making his way up than anything else. And all these questions of dhimmitude, islamic appeasement in policy and all else will run up against the giant wall of self-advancement.
We are going to see politicians turn volte face on questions of islamic appeasement once the cash register stops ringing. And we all know the economic benefits of an islam-dominated system. That will NEVER fly in India. They'll be kicked out on their asses before they even warm their chairs.
It will take a long time. And the indian public will accept a lot of abuses, but it only has to touch the bottom line before it blows up in their faces. So don't worry my friends, the indian democratic system is safe. We are in no danger of becoming a muslim state.
Hugh, sorry, I kinda wandered off topic there. I didn't mean that you should calm down in any way. I'm new to the site, but I have read a lot of your writings and I admire the clarity and conviction in them, though we do not agree on some things. I look forward to more articles and, possibly, exchanges.
Respectfully,
H.
eternal vigilance
I wish I could have agreed with you, but you are talking about the response of the non-muslim population for which democracy offers hope of economic growth. For the muslims, all this is irrelevant unless it leads to political domination over the rest.
My submission to all Indians is that you guys are in trouble and don't even realise it, blessed as you are with an obfuscating media, a half-witted, PCness paralysed government and even more unfortunately, afflicted with a historically enduring belief in human rationality, despite all historical evidence that should have disabused the Hindus, more than any other people, from this foolishess in face of islam.
Economic growth for the muslim means more ability to harm the rest of the world and its people - islam is a parasitic cult par excellence and sanctions the illegitimate grabbing of the wealth built up by Infidel others. It does so in the name of alla and mohamed. Witness all the rich muslim countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran - what have they brought to the world except misery, violence and unmitigated evil?
If you care to visit the Indian Census pages linked above, you will come across some revealing figures. For instance, you will see that the state of Assam had a muslim population numbering 48% of the Hindus in 2001, but the ratio of muslims to Hindus was a dramatic 72% in the under 6 years group. The projected demographics in the years to come are clear, as are the implications for the triumph of democracy you are hopeful of.
You guys are behaving like the frog put into water that is heated slowly - it gets used to the gently increasing temperature and does not jump out, even when the water has become hot. Eventually it is boiled alive. Please do something about removing the steadily building heat. Soon it will be too late and you ignore it at your own peril. History and India's future generations of non-muslims (if any) will not forgive you, if you persist in your illusions.
This is correct. What Eternalvigilance is talking about is the Sharansky theory that Democracy alone assures peace. It's a sound theory, and one that would indeed work in places like Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea and Laos, amongst other places.
However, as Ali Sina pointed out (can't link to it right now), this theory doesn't hold good for Muslims because it fails to factor in Islam. This is because for us Infidels, the understanding of democracy has been refined to acknowledge the rights of minority groups, regardless of the categorization. To par it down to the bare minimum, if you had 16 men and 4 women on an island, and there was a vote on whether the women should be raped, which went down 16:4 in favor, most of us today would not call that a democratic arrangement. However, in the ummah, it would be. For the same reason, few ever described the Apartheid system in South Africa as democratic, despite the fact that every South African government was democratically elected.
The theory above that democracy would take care of Islamization tendencies is symptomatic of the adage If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem will look like a nail. Bilad ul Kafir - be it the West, India, Thailand, Phillipines or anywhere else - needs to note the diverse ways Muslims wage Jihad: not just beheadings and suicide bombings, but also massive immigration, overbreeding, dawa, as well as putting PC movements on steroids and using them against Infidels in Bilad ul Kafir.
Problem is this is a global malaise - I wouldn't say that the West is much better off than India, or vice versa. Granted, the magnitudes vary - does 133m vermin in a population of 1b pose a greater threat than 2m in a population of 300m? Might look like it, but there are variances in the way Islamic aggression is dealt with that make them more or less equivalent.
For Hindus in negationism about perils of islam and india's appeasement:
From Daily Pioneer:
In two more months, it will be five years since terrorists attacked Parliament House. The final verdict in the case, is out. Of the four arrested for conspiracy, one has been sentenced to death. Two have walked free and one has been sentenced to 10 years imprisonment. It's now season for a debate whether Mohammed Afzal deserves the death sentence. Human rights groups have their knives out, calling the sentence barbaric. Peaceniks fear the sentence will hamper the never-ending peace talks. But nobody is talking of the 10 brave Indians who sacrificed their lives in defence of Indian Parliament.
Kamlesh Kumari, aged 32, left behind a three-year-old daughter with her tailor husband Avdesh, to stand guard at Parliament on December 13, 2001.
She saw the ambassador, DL 3C J 1527, heading from Vijay Chowk towards the gate. Kamlesh was the first security personnel to walk up to the car, laden with a deadly cargo and driven by men with the sole agenda of spreading terror and mayhem.
Alert and reflexes working double time, Kamlesh, realising something was amiss, ran towards the gate to shut it. The terrorists, their cover blown, opened fired. Eleven bullets from the blazing guns caught the Mahila CRPF constable in her stomach.
Kamlesh's bravery prevented a human bomb among the terrorists from executing his dastardly deed. For, the closing of Gate No 1 and the alert that Kamlesh raised gave enough time for other security personnel to take position and down the human bomb in a hail of bullets.
Avdesh, Kamlesh's husband, and their daughters Jyoti (15) and Shweta (7) have returned to their native village Sikandarpur in Kannauj in Uttar Pradesh.
Avdesh seethes at those who want the Parliament attack mastermind Mohammad Afzal pardoned. "He should be hanged. Not only him, but all those who have been acquitted should also be given death".
Interestingly, Avdesh is yet to receive the Rs 4 lakh the Delhi Government had announced for Kamlesh's family. He waits".