From the Who's-Kidding-Whom Department: the head of the Muslim Brotherhood, from which has sprung Hamas and Al-Qaeda, and Sheikh Qaradawi, who has endorsed jihad-martyrdom suicide bombings, are demanding the Pope apologize for suggesting Islam is violent. And the Hizballah News Agency, aka Reuters, reports it all, of course, with a straight face. Lombardi's dhimmi backpedaling, meanwhile, is unlikely to mollify anyone. "Muslim leaders condemn Pope's speech, want apology," from Reuters:
CAIRO (Reuters) - Muslim leaders on Thursday condemned Pope Benedict over comments he made about Islam on a visit to Germany and demanded he apologize.The head of the Egyptian-based Muslim Brotherhood called on Islamic countries to threaten to break off relations with the Vatican unless the pontiff withdrew his remarks.
A top religious figure in Turkey suggested the pope should reconsider a trip he is planning to Turkey later this year.
The Vatican issued a statement to say the Pope had never meant to offend Islam.
[...]
The head of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Mahdi Akef, whose organization is one of the oldest, largest and most influential in the Arab world, said the pope "aroused the anger of the whole Islamic world and strengthened the argument of those who say that the West is hostile to everything Islamic."
"The general guide (Akef) expressed his surprise that such comments should come from someone who sits at the summit of the Catholic Church and who has an influence over public opinion in the West," said a statement on the Muslim Brotherhood's official Web site, www.ikhwanonline.com.
The Vatican press office said in a statement the pope had not intended to carry out an in-depth study of jihad (holy war) and Muslim thinking about it, "even less to offend the sensitivity of the Muslim faithful."
"It is clear that the Holy Father's intention is to cultivate a position of respect and dialogue toward other religions and cultures, and that clearly includes Islam," the statement by chief Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said.
He said a careful reading of the Pope's lecture would show that "what really matters to the Holy Father is a clear and radical rejection of religious motives for violence."
In Turkey, the Anatolian state news agency quoted Ali Bardakoglu, the head of Ankara's Directorate General for Religious Affairs, as describing the Pope's words as "extremely regrettable."
"I do not see any use in somebody visiting the Islamic world who thinks in this way about the holy prophet of Islam. He should first rid himself of feelings of hate," NTV's Web site quoted Bardakoglu as saying.
Bardakoglu, whose directorate controls all imams in Turkey and sends prayer leaders to Turkish communities abroad, recalled atrocities committed by Roman Catholic Crusaders during the Middle Ages in the name of their faith against Orthodox Christians and Jews as well as Muslims.
Benedict is due to visit Turkey, an avowedly secular state whose population is predominantly Muslim, in November at the invitation of President Ahmet Necdet Sezer.
In Qatar, prominent Muslim scholar Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawi rejected the Pope's comments and said Islam was a religion of peace and reason.
"Muslims have the right to be angry and hurt by these comments from the highest cleric in Christianity," Qaradawi told Al Jazeera television. "We ask the pope to apologize to the Muslim nation for insulting its religion, its Prophet and its beliefs."
Or what?
He should only apologize for not saying it a little sooner.
Ok. Let me get this straight. The POPE, should rid himself of hate. Hmmm...truth hurts, don't it? Everything this Bargakalu and Quaradawri said are a joke. There is no humor in islam. Just ridiculousness.
Or the usual.
But I, frankly, am very much getting to the point where I am in opposition to everything islamic on principle. A billion muslims are opposed to everything Western on 'principle'; I fail to see why it should be otherwise. I, moreover, have the right to be hurt and offended at the attitudes and comments of muslims worldwide, and I want an apology too.
Prophet Geoff
I want an APOLOGY from the moslem brotherhood for all the violence they have spawned in Egypt against the Copts, and all the violence that their offshoots have foisted on the west. I am OFFENDED that they do not allow Christianity and other religions to proselytize in any any Arab land or that old churches and synagogues are not allowed to be fixed. Frankly I agree with Geoff. STOP THEIR IMMIGRATION to AMERICA NOW!
Perhaps Qaradawi thinks that the Pope's comments fall under the category of "true, but hurtful statement to Muslims."
Qaradawi thinks aggressive jihad to spread Islam is okay, that killing apostates is okay, that killing homosexuals is okay. He thinks that women who don't dress as per Islamic dress code who get raped are partly to blame, and so on. Qaradawi is not upset by the fact that Islam is violent. He is upset that the Pope is essentially opposing Islam by pointing out facts about jihad in public.
To the murderers of the Muslim Brotherhood,I say go to hell with your hateful and vile prophet. Judgement shall come upon you, your lies and the murders done in the name of the wretched demoniac from the desert. There will and should be no apology to Muslims. Muslims have murdered millions and even now plan to murder more. To apologize to you wretched slaves of hell would be as vile as the Jews apologizing to the Nazis.
Enough is enough for years the propaganda about Islam has been fed to us. Many of us have eyes and can see clearly that what we are told are lies. You are merely angry, b/c the truth has come out. Your Taquiyya has hit a road-block.
The Muslim Brotherhood can join Muhammed and their sexually deviant mal-adjusted founder Sayid Qutb in hell. PISS BE UPON HIM. A watershed moment has occured and things are going get bad. Pray for those who will surely die at the hands of these animals. The train has left the station and Muslims are going go all out for blood on this one.
Let's hope, or pray if you are that way inclined, that the Pope doesn't recant, or make any more apologies for 'upsetting' muslims.
My thanks to the Pope for his statement.
Thinking in terms of what an uproar those cartoons of mo produced within the muslim world, how many street riots, murders of innocent Christians/Hindus/Jews and general mayhem will we see this time. As George B. would say, bring it on.
By which i do not mean that the murder of innocent Christians etc is something to be relished, but rather that the insanity of islam must be seen more clearly by many in the west before we are safe.
The following are only some of the verses in the Qur'an that can and have been used in the history of Islam in support of violence in the name of God and the glories of martyrdom in a holy war.
2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them ... And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God ..."
2:216 "Fighting is prescribed for you and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth and ye know not."
2:224 "Then fight in the cause of God and know that God heareth and knoweth all things."
3:157-158 "And if ye are slain or die in the way of God, forgiveness and mercy from God are far better than all they could amass. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! It is unto God that ye are brought together."
3:169 "Think not of those who are slain in God's way as dead. Nay, they live finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord."
3:195 "... Those who have ... fought or been slain, verily I will blot out from them their iniquities and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; a reward from the presence of God ..."
4:101 "... For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
4:74, 75 "Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God whether he is slain or gets victory, soon shall we give him a reward of great (value). Those who believe fight in the cause of God and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil, so fight ye against the friends of Satan, feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."
4:89 "They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they. But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them…"
4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit at (at home) and receive no hurt and those who strive and fight in the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).
5:36 "The punishment of those who wage war against God and His apostle and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter."
5:54 "O ye who believe. Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."
8:12-17 "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. This because they contend against God and his apostle. If any contend against God and his apostle, God is strict in punishment ... O ye who believe. When ye meet the unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day, unless it be a stratagem of war ... he draws on himself the wrath of God and his abode is Hell, an evil refuge (indeed)."
8:59-60 "Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly). They will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know ..."
8:65 "O apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred. If a hundred they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers, for these are a people without understanding."
9:5 "... fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ..."
9:14 "Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame ..."
9:29 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his apostle nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
47:4 "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks, at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) ... but if it had been God's will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (himself), but (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost."
61:4 "Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure."
The following are a few examples in the hadith collection of Bukhari, the most authoritative book in Sunni Islam, second only to the Qur'an (Sahih Al-Bukhari, 9 vols. translated by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Al Nabawiya: Dar Ahya Us-Sunnah, n.d.).
"Allah's Apostle said, ‘Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.’" (vol. 4, p. 55)
"Allah's Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me…" (vol. 4, p. 124)
"It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he has made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land…" (vol. 4, p. 161)
"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." (vol. 9, p. 45)
"An infidel spy came to the Prophet while he was on a journey. The spy sat with the companions of the Prophet and started talking and then went away. The Prophet said (to his companions), ‘Chase and kill him.’ So, I killed him. The Prophet then gave him the belongings of the killed spy." (vol. 4, pp. 181-182)
"Some people from the tribe of Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milk) camels of charity and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophet ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die." (vol. 8, pp. 519-520)
"The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." (vol. 4, pp. 158-159)
Read it all here:
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Terrorism/islam_and_violence.html
The entire non-Muslim world should sum up for the Infidel public the whiole history of Muslim conquest, of Muslim seizure of lands, of the way in which non-Muslims were subjugated to Muslim rule and to conditions so onerous -- when there was not outright mass murder, as in India -- as over time to force non-Muslims to convert. They should explain that Islam itself originates in an attempt to create, out of bits and pieces of pre-Islamic pagan Arab lore, Judaism, and Christianity, the "Arab national religion" that would both justify, and promote, the conquest by primitive Arabs of far more advanced, wealthy, settled populations -- first the Christians and Jews of the MIddle East and North Africa, then the Zoroastrians of Sassanian Persia, then the Hindus and Jains and Buddhists (the Sikhs came later) of India and Infdia extra Gangem, even unto the archipelago of the East Indies, the last conquered not by outright military conquest but by trading depots slowly converted into militarou outposts, and then local rulers in Java and Sumatra converted to Islam, thereby leading to the automatic conversion of their subjects.
Lay it all out: the massacres, the full onerousness of the dhimmi status (how many in the government even know what the word "dhimmi" means at this point, or know what the conditions imposed on the dhimmi consisted of? How many members of Congress, or of those running against current members of Congress, are prepared to add to their campaigns the slogan "NO MORE JIZYAH" starting with the grotesque idea that the Americans should renew aid to the "Palestinians" for any reason whatsoever, when the rich Arabs should be asked to support, if anyone is going to support (and why should they?) not only the so-called "Palestinians" but all the other Muslims who forgot to possess that oil wealth that is the only claim the Arabs and Muslims have on the world's attention, and the sole source of their ability to conduct violent Jihad?
Don't just have an exhibit devoted to the Bamiyan Buddhas. Have movies, have exhibits, devoted to the entire history of Muslim destruction of the art, artifacts, religious sites of all non-Muslims: Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus. Lay it all out. All of it. Force it into the consciousnesses of everyone, but begin with the non-Muslims. They need to know. When they know, the Muslims will know they know - know that they can't get away with the nonsense as before. This is a race to acquire, and to disseminate, knowledge. Every resource must be used. Time counts: will the advancement and dissemination of this knowledge outrun the masters of taqiyya-and-tu-quoque and their willing appeasers, their eager silencers of free speech?
Who will have the resources? Who will get there first?
Here are some real photos of Muslims destroying Christian churches in Kosovo.
Islam is no religion of peace.
See muslim hatred and violence here:
http://www.st-george-church.org/English/Kosovo_News.htm
See more Muslim hatred and violence here:
http://victimsofallah.blogspot.com/
Prophet Geoff
Great idea - like for like. It's about time we answered them in their own 'language' of victimhood, offendedness, anger and disgust.
Let's start right away. I'll be the first (?) to follow you, oh great prophet. Please let me know, how to dress, pray, eat, pick my nose, have sex, deal with opponents etc, so I can have clear instructions for every minute of my day.
http://tinyurl.com/j7uuh
The Lecture given by Pope Benedict in Regensburg is above.
It is factual, it is clear, it is much needed and it has worked !
It has flushed out Turkey as the Trojan Horse (where better !) by which Islam would entrench itself inside the European Union. It has shown that the difference between Muslim terrorists and Muslim non-terrorists is method not aim.
It has exposed George Bush, Tony Blair et al for their weak posturing. A simple exposition of a factual conversation exposes Islam for its militarism and imperialism
Who would have thought, an article from BBC about what a disapointment this pope is.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4902640.stm
A long-time Vatican observer, and chronic cognitive dissonance sufferer, Father Thomas Reese :
"If the Vatican says something dumb about Muslims, people will die in parts of Africa and churches will be burned in Indonesia, let alone what happens in the Middle East."
It is nearly 09:00am in the UK and there are still no reports of rioting, looting, murdering or all the other things the Muslim illiterate rent-a-mob are so apt to do. But I just remembered it’s Friday. “Holy” Imams throughout the world will be fine tuning their hate speech so watch out for action as the zombie-muzbot’s set out to destroy and kill later today to “defend” their death-cults Hell inhabiting founder and all because the Pope has told the truth.
Today is the day that our dear friend, Great Britain, celebrates its victory in the Battle of Britain. In the desperate summer of 1940, a free people demonstrated for the whole world what they could do against the drilled and deadly forces of unfreedom. Let us emulate the constancy and courage of "The Few."
And today we learn, that another great friend of freedom, Orian Fallici, has passed on.
In the mind of those that can recall such things, the Battle of Britain pitted the Spitfire against the ME-109.
Perhaps it's appropriate that on this day, a day that recalls the glory days of the Supermarine Spitfire, that another "spitfire," a woman who rose to do battle with all those that challenged her right to speak the truth, perhaps it's appropriate that on this day, she should have crossed the river.
But what a loss, what a loss.... Such losses, we can little endure.... Oh God how we need people of her high and noble courage.
This is great news. The previous pope went to far in the direction of trying to find some way for Islam and Christianity to coexist. However this is an impossiblility and he never realized that.
The new german 'panzer-pope' seems to be made of a very different material than his predecessor. I hope he continues making statements like these. Because the statement of a pope won't be ignored.
However this is an impossiblility and he never realized that.
You delude yourself...............he realised much but still tried the olive branch................once that is spurned you are only left to define what parts of Christendom you wish to defend so that Rome does not end up like Constantinople
Ever notice how these people are always DEMANDING things? The next time any of you see Sheik Qaradawi please tell him he can kiss my ass.
"If you do not apologize immediately for saying we are violent, we will kill you!" In a kind, peaceful way, of course.
its starting folks....
kuwait, pakistan, india, jordan, france
http://www.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=pope&btnG=Search+News
keep an eye on Saudi Arabia. you can guarantee thats where the rabble will be roused during friday prayers, and it will spread from there, with ever more hysterical demands for an "apology".
Apologise? I don't think so.
This book (link below) was written in the 1920s. Some of its revelations could have been written yesterday - like continual appeasement for fear of upsetting "the Muselmans", culpability of the media in not printing the truth (because they'd already published the lie and couldn't be seen to retract). Besides, all these "massacre" stories were so tiresome.
THE BLIGHT OF ASIA
An Account of the Systematic Extermination of Christian
Populations by Mohammedans and of the Culpability
of Certain Great Powers; with the True Story
of the Burning of Smyrna
By
GEORGE HORTON
For Thirty Years Consul and Consul-General of the
United States in the Near East
http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/HortonBook.htm
Muslim leaders condemn Pope's speech, want apology
September 15, 2006
CAIRO (Reuters) - Muslim leaders on Thursday condemned Pope Benedict over comments he made about Islam on a visit to Germany and demanded he apologise.
...
In Qatar, prominent Muslim scholar Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawi rejected the Pope's comments and said Islam was a religion of peace and reason.
"Muslims have the right to be angry and hurt by these comments from the highest cleric in Christianity," Qaradawi told Al Jazeera television. "We ask the pope to apologise to the Muslim nation for insulting its religion, its Prophet and its beliefs."
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/9/15/worldupdates/2006-09-15T032522Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-267636-1&sec=Worldupdates
.......
Friends:
Qaradawi, like many Moslem clerics, is a multimillionaire businessman. He is obviously shrewd and intelligent, but not reasonable, reasoning, or for that matter, fair. How do you think the Holy Father should feel about this fatwa by Qaradawi?
"Islam will Return to Europe as a Conqueror" (fatwa by Qaradawi) www.islamonline.net,[1]
source: Leading Sunni Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi and Other Sheikhs Herald the Coming Conquest of Rome MEMRI 12-06-02 http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP44702
IF the West wants to get serious about its own survival, we need to understand that the radical clerics and their mosques are the instigating, mobilizing, and facilitating centres of the enemy. The radical clerics are the inspiration, the recruiters, and the commanders of the enemy's irregular forces. The CIA should monitor them and deal with them as the IDF dealt with Sheikh Yassim. I'd bet most of the scurvy lot would tuck their tails and tone down their sermons pronto.
and britain
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6081902,00.html
the tidal wave has started.
In Turkey the new book "PAPA`YA SUIKAST" - Who will kill the Pope in Istanbul? - is being published now before the coming Pope visit in November to Istanbul, which the Pope continues to call `Constantinople´.
From The Times.
"Anyone who says that Islam is intolerant or Islam is spread through use of force shows his ignorance. Islam is a very tolerant religion," said Tasnim Aslam , a spokeswoman for the Pakistan Foreign Ministry.
There you go. That answers it. I must be in wonderland. What colour was that pill again?
Yes, it is starting. So where is the backlash of angry non-Muslims who've had enough? NOW WE NEED TO START.
Let's also take back the name "Infidel". It was used by Crusaders to describe Mohammadans and I see no reason why we should surrender it to them, just because we are used to them lying about everything else.
This is an excellent development. Reality is closing in on the Muslim world. Perhaps this Pope is a kind of Macduff. If so, then lay on! Let it roll.
The Muslims are up shit creek without a paddle now that a figure with such spiritual clout and kudos has started to call their belief system by its true name and opened the can of worms that it is.
What's more, the rest of the dhimmified and dozy decadent West might now pay attention, given the Pope's authority, and start asking necessary questions about this deranged cult.
Let's hope for a rerun and more of what happened over the cartoons....demonstrations, riots, acts of destruction. Perfect negative PR to galvanise the West into some self-preservation.
"Anyone who says that Islam is intolerant or Islam is spread through use of force shows his ignorance. - said Tasnim Aslam , a spokeswoman for the Pakistan Foreign Ministry."
Apotasy , or leaving Islam, is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Yemen, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan and Mauritania.
And in Pakistan , the death penalty exists for "blasphemy".
yeah right - very "tolerant"...
DANISH CARTOONS PART TWO ALERT!
yes folks, its now spread to Saudi
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2359541,00.html
---------------------
"The 57-nation Organisation of the Islamic Conference, based in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, said it regretted "the Pope’s quote and for the other falsifications".
---------------------
and also Indonesia:
---------------------
"Muslims can’t eliminate jihad from the Islamic discourse, the same way Christians can’t do away with the doctrine of Trinity," said Fauzan Al-Anshori, spokesman for the radical Indonesian Mujahideen Council. He challenged the Pope to a dialogue.
----------------------------
ok folks. batten down the hatches - here comes the tidal wave...
its now the lead story on the BBC news site
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
and Al Jazeera
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage
this is just *so* predictable. trouble is , i really cant see the Pope backing down on this one. (because what he said was basically the truth)
....And I want an APOLOGY from Muslims everywhere for all the violence done to all non-Muslims done in the name of your religion. Muslims, get with the program and 21st century.
Response : crikets sound.
By the way here are a few comment from the BBC news concerning the Pope's speech, these by the way are the top 5 recommended by the readers
Please enjoy I think it gives genuine feel about how the ordinary Brit sees the situation
(1)oh look, muslims are up in arms. again.
(2)His comments weren't anti-Islamic, they were used to prove a point about the relationship between religion and violence, two things which should never be associated.
Yet again we see the Islamic community taking slight at the words before actually considering the point and context of them.
How many times have we seen Islamic leaders talk about the "evil west" and how we have "no morals" - the rules need to be applied both ways if a respectful balance is to be achieved.
(3)His comments were very timely and appropriate. It's time someone called a spade a spade and stop this drama of political correctness
(4)Sorry but when did constructive criticism of Islam become illegal. The Pope, or indeed anyone else has the right to make remarks (in this case not even his own) about any religion, it's called freedom of speech. We must stop Islamists from holding our rights to ransom under the guise of racism.
(5)No, the facts speak for themselves. It's time for the west to be less tolerant of religious fanactics of fundamental islam, fundamental christans and zionist jews. The common person is being affected by these religious doctrines and it is costing many their life.
They carry on in the same vein reasoned and dripping with contempt.
""If the Vatican says something dumb about Muslims, people will die in parts of Africa and churches will be burned in Indonesia, let alone what happens in the Middle East.""
Somebody tell this idiot at Be Be Ceera that this is the principle to legitimate mafia.
If you do what I say, nobody will get hurt.
Is the UK ready also for mafia domination?
Bravo! Benedict XVI for speaking the truth.
Latest Umma vs. Pope--Idiot roundup
Pakistan's parliament adopts resolution condemning Pope's remarks ...
POPE. KUWAIT MUSLIMS: HIS WORDS RECALL CRUSADES
POPE: FRENCH MUSLIMS, ISLAM IS RELIGION, NOT IDEOLOGY
The Pope must aplogise, demand Indian Muslims
Muslims in Britain condemns Pope's comments on Islam
Turkish religious leader calls on Pope to apologise
Islamic nationalists in Turkey protest against visit of Benedict ...
Jordan Islamists say Pope's comments reveal bigotry.
thing is - the Pope cant "apologise". He's infallible, according to Catholic doctrine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
That's actually a misunderstanding of the doctrine of infallibility, but this is no time to go into all that.
It has begun, this is the lead story on every major news site. The war is on. At this point It doesn't matter what is said, the vast terror aparatis of the ummah is kicking into high gear. The vile Imams in Kutbahs across the world will do their damned best to insight the Muhammedian rabble into a hate-filled frenzy. The inbreed, first cousin banging mouth breathers will be in full sub-literate,inchoate, raging form. Stupid losers, Muhammed and is Islam are trash, get a life, drink some beer,enjoy life, get layed by adult women, get a life, and shut the hell up!
Well fellow Kufir pigs how will we respond? As we have not doubt how the orcs of Mordor will.
One proud,arrogant,filthy,infidel,kufir,pig ready for war. RIP Oriana Fallaci!!
Pakistan's Foreign Ministry also called the pope's remarks "regrettable."
"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.
Pakistan's Parliament has passed a resolution condemning the Pope for his comments as well.
My favorite line?
"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.
I love those statements...if you say I'm violent I'll kick your a$$!
Something tells me that this Pope won't be kissing any korans.
Assalamau Laikum all,
I think the muslims moderates especially need to say a few things in peace. Something like the following:
"The peoples of Islam forgives the pope for his rude transgressions. He is an old man who dreams of the past glories of christendom.
He thinks that he is master of a peoples living in the byzantyne times and can only offer quotes of what the emperor said many yesterdays ago.
Being old and of dull mind he cannot say what he himself thinks...this would take much time and we understand this.
We all know that christianlty is a religion slowly dying on it's feet. Church attendences are falling rapidly, with most christains only attending church on a wedding, funeral or christening.
We know that one day Islam will be the global premier religion of choice spread by peace and tolerence...which ofcourse Islam (especially the Ahmadi) is.
So we forgive and forget little indiscretions ...an apology would be nice but we understand all about face saving (in the political sense only).
Please take more care in the future".
It's a Tu-Quoque frenzy! Time for catholics everywhere to start rioting as well.
"His statement has been met by surprise by the head of Germany's Muslim Central Council, Aiman Mazyek. He expressed concern that the head of the Catholic church would preach about extremism given its "history of "bloody crusades in the Muslim world, the expulsion of Muslims and Jews in Spain, and the Catholic church's role in the Nazi regime."
http://euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=379855&lng=1
Naseem:
"I think the muslims moderates especially need to say a few things in peace."
Former Malaysian PM: 'No Such Thing as a Moderate Muslim'...
http://jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=4708
Listen to the wise words of Dr. Mahathir!
naseem -> the very existence of the Pope is in *itself* an insult to Islam, him being God's representative on Earth (that is Catholic doctrine).
He is also "infallible", according to Catholic doctrine - which of course, in Islam, is only reserved for Mohammed.
But that's just the nature of religion. One religion's doctrines are usually an insult to another religion's doctrines.
that's whats so ridiculous about this.
The Pope words preached peace and the incompatibility of violence with God's nature. Nevertheless apologies are demanded from the Moslem world. For what? He has spoken a simple truth but yet again the forces of dishonesty, anger and violence spring into action.
His words were measured, yet correct, to the point and courageous. His words could do much to remind the West of its spiritual heritage. His words may even begin a true dialogue between the West and those still in thrall to Islam but beginning to doubt, based upon their surviving ability to see the many lies and injustices that Islam embraces.
The condemnation of the Pope's words from the Muslim Brotherhood can be taken as a testimony to their truth and worth, signifying that he has overturned a rock, letting the light of day shine on the corruption beneath.
Pitiful old Naseem, I see today is not your day to use the half brain all you Paki women share. While muslims pretend to count their numbers in the millions, the truth is that thousands are leaving islam every day. People can see the failures of your inferior religion and are deserting it like rats from a sinking ship. Now we have a pope who is not senile like the last one. He is not afraid to speak the truth, and the muslims howl like jackals when he speaks. The truth hurts their ears as it always hurts Satan and his slaves. The last Crusades will be nothing compared to the ones that are coming. Enjoy your delusions while you still can.
Naseem wrote: " We all know that christianlty is a religion slowly dying on it's feet. Church attendences are falling rapidly, with most christains only attending church on a wedding, funeral or christening."
Sorry to burst your bubble Naseem.....but you are dead wrong.
Christianity is the fastest GROWING religion. Christianity is growing faster than Islam.
Check out these researched figures:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-fastest-growing.htm
"Muslims have the right to be angry and hurt by these comments from the highest cleric in Christianity," Qaradawi told Al Jazeera television. "We ask the pope to apologize to the Muslim nation for insulting its religion, its Prophet and its beliefs."
And we, frankly, have every right to be angry and expect apologies about every negative comment, action, slur, attack, etc. that Muslims make in the name of their damnable religion. Is it in our imaginations that no matter where one turns in the world, Muslims are creating havoc, mayhem and strife. Where are those zealot members of Western Civilization in the news today creating havoc?
Hard to find it in section A right?
Islamic religious leaders are the problem, not the Pope! A Byzantine Emperor tells the truth! He would know better than us. Thank you Pope Benedict. I'm not a Catholic, but we need some political leaders like you in every European country specifically, and every Western country generally.
I'm sure the Mosques and Masjids will be a ringing with calls of the "Evil Pope" today. Bet on riots and hellraising at 3.30pm!
NO MORE JIZYAH DHIMMITUDE BE DAMNED
Thank you for that link, SandiM.
I will circulate this as widely as I can, and I urge others to do the same. The civilised world should know more of the history of Mohammedanism.
We know that one day Islam will be the global premier religion of choice spread by peace and tolerence...which ofcourse Islam (especially the Ahmadi) is.
You must re-read The Book of Revelation Naseem and see what happens to the Beast.......
Islam has never spread by peace and tolerance and to assert otherwise is Deceit another cardinal sin.
The Pope referenced a Byzantine Emperor besieged by Muslim hordes and relayed a conversation which took place. Like Pavlov's Dog the response showed us the true face of Islam throughout the world - the snarl, the bark, the yelp, and the whine.
We have seen and we know !
Dont those fools ever stop getting offended - ?
High dudgeon seems to be a Muslim default - they are always asking for an apology for something or other - and the bigger fools in the West give it to them!
It was disappointing that the Pope - who, for a Pope, is right on - offered regrets that he upset Muslims...
Then we have Oriana Fallaci - she never bowed her head - she never apologized in order to calm the waters - what a splendid woman! How lucky we were to have her!
May she rest in peace.
Michelle Malkin has stated islam correctly. It is the Religion of Perpetual Outrage. Everything sets them off. Truth, cartoons, bikinis, each other, nail polish, Jews or infidels. You name it, they get outraged. They could use some heavy doses of birth control, valium or antidepressants. I don't know how they've kept from popping aortas as angry as they get. Their temper tantrums would make good targets. Maybe we need to make them scared to go to Friday prayers.
could we pass one single day without the delirium of the stupid cow?
not even today...
"He thinks that he is master of a peoples living in the byzantyne times and can only offer quotes of what the emperor said many yesterdays ago. "
and that makes it different from you sub-human quoting what a pedophile said 1400 years ago how?
"Being old and of dull mind he cannot say what he himself thinks...this would take much time and we understand this."
stupid nasheem, this pope (like the previous one) spent the whole of his life studying. He studied philosophy and theology and unlike a certain person who claimed she studied in the UK while she's only a retard that got a piece of paper because she comes from the 3rd world, he later got another degree in law.
Other than that what can you expect from a half-brained woman that is not even able to spell Bulgaria correctly?
Hey cow, don't you have a job in pakiland?
hey stupid cow, another news for you that you probably missed due to the depht of your immense ignorance
"Damir Mukhetdinov, first deputy mufti of the Nizhegorodsky region along Russia's Volga river, complained that there are more Muslims, especially Tatars, converting to Russian Orthodoxy than Russian Christians converting to Islam."
Enjoy your coversion, cow.
Isn't that the essence of being an Islamophobe? When the Pope rejects the use of religious motivation for violence, he is attacking the very core of Islam. It is one of the (if not the) principles at the heart of Islam as witnessed by the partial list of Qur'anic quotes that Jonathan provided above.
Based on the continuation of this story since the Pope spoke, I take it the Pope has not retracted his statements? Good. Finally a (true) leader who can state the truth about Islam and not be forced to cave in under pressure.
In turkey the minister of the cult said the cristian missonaries are threatening the unity of the country.
In a country of 80 million muslims, a few (a dozen? a hundred?) christian priests/missionaries are threatening?
Islam, the weakest realigion of history of mankind.
Naseem:
I snorted with laughter at your charactrization of the pope's mind as old and dull. Old sure but certainly not dull. . Benedict is actually one of the more learned popes and has studied not just theology but philosphy. I've had a chance to read the Pope's remarks. They aren't just aimed at Moslems but a radical secularists who also use violence to advance their platforms.
Moslem reaction is unsurprising and it merely underscores the pope's point. If Islam were truly self-confient and didn't have such a shallow theology, Moslems would be able to wash off his remarks off like water and prepare a thoughtful rebuttal. But no it's so much easier to snivel and make faces. When that doesn't impress the pope, threaten him.
xavier
Isabellathecrusader, Let's also take back the name "Infidel".
I agree and we need to figure out what to call them, jihadists/militants seems to kind. Radicals? Would we call a serial killer a radical? Fanatic seems to hit the nail on the head. Any other ideas?
The Pope deserves our appreciation for the truthful poke in the eye he just delivered for us.
The fanatical muslims will not be able to contain themselves. Look for major violence to begin immediately. I will not be surprised if they try to kill him. I doubt the Pope will apologize; he has to answer to God not this riffraff. And let’s not forget that it was one guy killing another that ignited WW1.
Nassem, we all know before 9/11 happened, almost of west people don't know the truth about Islam. They only knew that Islam is the same religion of peace like others.
But after 9/11 happened, you know for sure that the numbers of west people who realise Islam is not compatible with civilization and democracy have growing fastly, only in 5 years after 9/11.
We wait for 5 years in the future.
Nassem, you will see Islam collapse. Join us, join humanity, quit from your death cult.
Naseem...Soon the Pope will be your Pope. The Catholics are taking over the world. Imams will be out and Bishops will be in. The Pope is going to delete Allah, and put GOD in his place. Mosques will be excorcised of the demonic influences of Allah, and turned into Churches and adult book stores. Get ready for big changes Naseem...the Pope has awakened. MAHDI WATCH OUT!!!
can we lay off the "subhuman" jibes FedUp?
Considering its the Pope we're talking about here, and considering that what he was talking about was non-violence, i'm sure he'd appreciate that.
thank you.
Quasi muslim insight: We are not violent! but we'll cut your head off if you don't apologise!
I wish I had some comedic talent.
The opportunities for poking fun at Muslims and their overwrought reactions are too delicious to resist...
Of course, I'd have to be the "Unknown Comedianne"!
I dont think Naseem is 'sub-human' at all, she is a victim of a pzz poor religion, based on the pzz poor rantings of a pzz poor prophet, about the pzz poor words, and pzz poor demands, of the pzz poor god Allah. She lives in a pzz poor country and is daily subjected to pzz poor conditions. She has been in this pzz poor condition so long, that she thinks it's normal...even preferable. Naseem does not deserve our wrath, but is entitled to our laughter...
I love it, 'threaten to break off relations with the Vatican'.
Well then how are all of the muslims going to come into America if they do that? It is Catholic Social Services that is sponsering in more muslims into western countries faster then even the official goverment can do it.
Thanks to Catholic Social Services, muslims are getting here fast.
So I say 'go ahead and break off relations with the Vatican'.
I want an apology for Islamic terrorism and the silencing of rational debate.
Holding my breath.
"can we lay off the "subhuman" jibes FedUp? "
why? do you think in spite of the fake assaliama whatthehell greeting, she's not insulting us?
By the way I am sure with my "language" I did less damage in the world than her with her fake "peacefulness".
This I am sure 200%.
"even unto the archipelago of the East Indies, the last conquered not by outright military conquest but by trading depots slowly converted into militarou outposts, and then local rulers in Java and Sumatra converted to Islam, thereby leading to the automatic conversion of their subjects."
Sort of like when Tony Soprano and his henchmen pay a visit to a grocer and never lay a finger on him, but make veiled threats against him, his business ("Hey, Tony, these wood foundations could easily go up in smoke if, God forbid, there were a fire here, doncha think?"), and his wife and daughters. And the grocer will know those veiled threats are serious from the neighborhood reports of others who have been killed and businesses destroyed by Tony. I.e., I doubt the "colonization" of the SE Asian archipelagos would have been possible without a low-level and strategically applied use of actual, and threatened, physical violence. The reason this worked in the SE Asian archipelagos is because they were far more simple and primitive societies than the societies of India, Persia and Asia Minor: the SE Asian archipelagos were pushovers, and didn't require outright military conquest, though they did require some degree of physical violence.
The newest deadly sins:
1) 12 cartoons
2) Israel defending itself
3) the USA trying to save the free world from itself
4) a pope who in a weak moment tells the truth.
What will the newest sins be?
Naked women in Irans parliament?
Radio free america in the PA?
Oh, come on, you muslifaschismos - get over it. Whine, whine, whine. I personally am sick of it.
BBC Guilty of the Sin of Omission
In their article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5348456.stm,
titled "Key excerpts: The Pope's speech",
the paragraph under On Holy War
omits his citations to the Qu'ran, and his concluding
stance on the use of violence.
---BBC quote---ON HOLY WAR
I was reminded of all this recently, when I read... of part of the dialogue carried on - perhaps in 1391 in the winter barracks near Ankara - by the erudite Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an educated Persian on the subject of Christianity and Islam, and the truth of both.
In the seventh conversation...the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. ( BBC does NOT include the Pope's following 3 sentences* ) .....Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God," he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats." ---end BBC quote---
BBC also did not include Benedict's last sentence in his paragraph .. "To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...".
The Big Three omitted are so powerful; it's like using NLP - say indirectly what is too aggressive to say directly, but the message gets delivered anyway, i.e. "I, Pope Benedict have read the Qu'ran and I know the sleazy circumstances under which it was written and how abrogations work; for crying out loud, we know exactly what your holy duty is, so shut the f*k up with the religion of peace crap.
*1.) "The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: "There is no compulsion in religion". 2.) According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. 3.) But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur'an, concerning holy war."
-from the complete text on the Vatican website.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html
Why muslims aren't coherent once in their lives and DEMAND apology from the real guilty one which is the Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus?
Nasseem misinterprets the empty pews in "Christendom" as being fertile ground for Islam. One hopes that we will see ferocious resistance to Islam, and it won't be from just the church. There is increasing evidence of it. In the instant case, the Pope was correct in his analysis of Islam and his statements were benign. Moreover, he has every right to voice his opinion. One just wishes the criticism had not come from the same entity that launched the crusades. We need liberals and atheists echoing the Pope's sentiments. As the Pope essentially said, Islam is violent and it commands violence from its adherents. In that sense, the Ahmadiyya vision of Islam clearly falls under the category of heresy.
Quote: "The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God," he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats."" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5348456.stm
Here is the real offending quote from Pope Benedict, "without violence and threats."
So how do Muslims respond to this 'unreasonable' demand? With violence and threats! They are so childishly petulantly unreasonably depravedly laughably stupidly absurd. Their ridiculous howls and burning effigies only proves him right.
The Pope had guts and the Muslim fear him. Good! No apologies necessary, none forthcoming.
The Pope said
If Allah is so powerful, and is pleased by blood, and wants to smite the infidels at their neck, then let Allah smite their necks. We infidels couldn't blame the Muslims if God was making our heads pop off. If Allah is all powerful, why does Allah need poor, unemployed, uneducated, and disenfranchised (according to our leaders) henchmen to do Allah's dirty work?
Kafir Nonbeliever said
This liberal atheist couldn't agree more with what the Pope said. I will keep repeating it, though I may appear a little mad, muttering to myself. See, the Pope is a world leader, so people listen to what he says, his words have consequences. Me? Not so much.
I agree with your sentiment, that the outcry against Islam should include atheists, Protestants, Hindus, and really anyone who values human life and basic human dignity.
Sorry, forgot to add: How about the "vast majority of moderate Muslims" echoing the Pope's sentiments, expressing their outrage at the violence committed in the name of their peaceful religion? That might help too.
He is also "infallible", according to Catholic doctrine - which of course, in Islam, is only reserved for Mohammed.
But that's just the nature of religion. One religion's doctrines are usually an insult to another religion's doctrines.
that's whats so ridiculous about this.
Before you continue commenting on Catholic doctrine with which you dont like, such as the Pope and infallibility, check out this link so you understand it first.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm
Many posters have defined that doctrine, I enourage you to check out the link. For the quick synopsis, it applies to teachings on Faith and Morals.
If you need to understand Christianity itself, and how it differs from islam and other religions, I highly recommend the classic book by C.S. Lewis "Mere Christinity". Consider it Christianity 101 and a starting point for all Christians (except ultra-liberal) to agree upon.
http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/sr=8-1/qid=1158364472/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-6525709-7961617?ie=UTF8&s=books
I want an apology for Islamic terrorism and the silencing of rational debate.
Holding my breath.
Posted by: EnglishBlondie
For the latter, you'll have to request an apology from the West and those who participate in, and support, its dominant PC Multiculturalism.
So the constant denunciation of Christianity in the mosque, the endless damning of that horrid "equalization" in the shahada, the ongoing oppression of Christians in the ummah...that's still all ok, then?
Whew! I was afraid we were going all PC there. Where's my scourge and scimitar?
Imam Geoff
The Pope told the truth and the muslims can't stand it. Benedict quoted criticism of Islam and the Prophet Mohammad by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who wrote that everything Mohammad brought was evil and inhuman, "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Benedict, who used the terms "jihad" and "holy war," repeatedly quoted Manuel's argument that spreading the faith through violence is unreasonable, adding: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul."
And how do muslims respond?
The head of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Mahdi Akef, ...said the pope "aroused the anger of the whole Islamic world and strengthened the argument of those who say that the West is hostile to everything Islamic."
Non-muslims aren't suicide bombers. Non-muslims aren't kidnapping and beheading people. Non-muslims aren't rioting over cartoons and murdering people. Non-muslims aren't threatening to kill anyone who disagrees with them or refuses to convert to their religion. Muslims are doing all these things and worse and using their false prophet and false religion to justify their sins. The Pope has spoken the truth. If the muslims can't take it, too effing bad.
It was interesting to note that Naseem felt it was all right to "forgive little indiscretions" along with the request to "please be more careful".
I suppose this is the face of Ahmadianist Islam: 'forgiveness' - and a little threat.
It's like they say - open up an Ahmadi and you find a little Sufi; open up a Sufi and you find a little Shi'ite; open up that Shi'ite and you find a little Sunni; open up the Sunni and you find a little Wahhabi.
Perhaps not that surprising: the most abrasive, evil and anti-semitic fellow I ever debated online was an Ahmadi.
What is odd are the demands for equality and tolerance from a religion that bases 1/3 to 1/2 of its doctrine on the vicious rejection of Christianity. Where is the reciprocation? Does islam not accept that?
Prophet Geoff
The pope is against violence! What a shock!
He should offer his excuses an resign!
If you want to know what the protests are all about, check this
http://tinyurl.com/k4qba
I read it as "Dhimmi, stay within your limits"
Johnathan,
Folks like Naseem forget that the Christian faith is growing like wildfire in the global south. 2.1-5 billion Christians cannot be wrong.
God Bless Pope Benedict XVI for speaking out in truth.
remote_control
yes, indeed.
The apologies that are due are from the Muslims and the people who have enabled this madness.
I want so many apologies I really don't know where to start.
Perhaps this week an apology for the attempts to censor academic/political debate is relevant.
It is all too true islam & Muslim is beyond the comprehension of those outside the faith .I am from a region where there is alot of chances to have interactions with Muslim in everyday life .For 45 years now , I found that that islam is a religion that is more prune to be self righteous .It is very hard to meet some Muslim who can argue & debate with you about Islam with logical mind , with human view point , with common sense . Theirs is something that is NOT SUPPOSE to have room for arguement .And they can get offended very easily , even you are their good friend , for long time .They appear to me as though they do not have an independent mind , although they are educated .Most of them although appear to be religious , but , they often harbour hatred , dissentment , envy , lust , greed , the list goes on . Just like anyother persons you may bump into on the street .if they are affluent , adultery , immorality is just too common . But they can appear to be very religious , go to mosque every Friday , pray 5 times a day .they do not donate to victims of natural disaster of other faith .But they expect others to give donations generously to their fellow believers .They will anyhow park their vehicles along the roadsides during Friday prayers ( which is illegal parking ), But because they are praying , therefore they think & believe they can ignore the law .There are too many things in their lives which I see is sinful & unlawful by common sense ; but they are disguised behind the veil of religion .In Islam , most important is your out front face that you show people . If you have been to Meccah , done the Pilgrimage , you are of holier status than those who have not been there,( Although it is because they are poor )although they may live a more righteous life . Very often I ponder in my heart & my mind , do the Muslim themselves never think about those things that are so obviously ridiculous ? I dont know .This sort of questions is not something that a Muslim will like someone to ask them . Even if you are his friend - close friend - or , it is as close as it can be .What can we do ? A very big population of the Earth is living in a different space & time & dimension with the rest ?Only GOD can help .