Ayatollah Jafar Sobhani misrepresents the Pope's words and speaks of jihad as "effort to save mankind from idolatry" -- whether mankind likes it or not, of course. From Iran's Mehr News Agency, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
TEHRAN, Sept. 25 (MNA) -- Most Western jurists know that reason and wisdom are the main sources of Islamic jurisprudence, Imam Sadiq Institute Director Ayatollah Jafar Sobhani said on Monday in an open letter addressed to Pope Benedict XVI.“Normally, monarchs and tyrants refer to clergymen to legitimize their rule over the people. But now the opposite has happened, in that a religious leader has referred to the words of a medieval emperor to legitimize his own ideas, and thus accused a great community of ignorance and irrationalism,” the senior member of the Qom Seminary’s Council of Mujtahids stated.
Sobhani added, “You have in fact defied the text of the Bible, in which Jesus (AS) says: ‘Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.’
“You shouldn’t have based your words on a medieval emperor’s sayings.”
He explained, “Islam uses the appealing term of jihad, not massacre. Jihad means effort to save mankind from idolatry… Before, some tyrants did not allow preachers to promulgate their divine religion and used to kill the believers. Islamic jihad was meant to pave the way for the divine religion to be genuinely presented to the people...."
Is that the best they can do as a response?
I guess it is rather difficult to put it into words when an AK47 is the normal preferred option!
Sobhani added, “You have in fact defied the text of the Bible, in which Jesus (AS) says: ‘Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.’
How can we take thses delusional misfits seriously when they talk such absolute....CRAP! Is Sobhani an authority on all things biblical now? I'm no 'believer' but is'nt this verse taken completely out of context? Did'nt it have something to do with paying tax to Caesar's government? I'm blown away...
Their idiocy is the root from which springs forth the danger.
By the powers bestowed on me, sheik yer'mami, accomplished warrior of the global counter Jihad, I cast my fatwa over the Ayatollah Jafar Sobhani's misguided rants, which insult civilization, reason and common sense.
This misunderstander of Islam may be shot, beheaded, blown up or poisoned at a time and place of our choosing and his bones may be fed to the dogs...
Please call in for your reward at 007-9580 counter-jihad task-force!
Jihad means effort to save mankind from idolatry…
in what hell do you call the black stone in mecca? if that is not idolatry in the highest form, nothing else is!
Zena,
Try explaining that to muslims. And we know what happens when they get even slightly offended.
Sobhani added, “You have in fact defied the text of the Bible, in which Jesus (AS) says: ‘Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.’
How can we take thses delusional misfits seriously when they talk such absolute....CRAP! Is Sobhani an authority on all things biblical now? I'm no 'believer' but is'nt this verse taken completely out of context? Did'nt it have something to do with paying tax to Caesar's government? I'm blown away...
____________
You are correct; the original context was an attempt to get Jesus to either support the Roman Empire which would of angered his own people, or to denounce the Roman Empire; which would of placed his life in jeopardy. His solution was very simple: "Whose face do you see on this coin?" "Caesar's" was the response. Jesus responds then "Then render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and what is God's unto God." It has nothing to do at all with Pope Benedict's quote of the Byzatine Emperor.
The response from this Muslim leader is understandable, but sad. Jihad has, from my perspective, brought only blood shed and intolerance. Muslim leaders are clueless. The attempt to make Pope Benedict the next crusader Pope by the Muslims is laughable and deplorable. The sad thing is, a crusade will happen, not by choice, but by neccessity.
When we are forced to defend our lives, our families, our land, and our way of life; then the crusade will happen. Like the old saying goes... we didn't start this fight, but we will finish it.
"Jihad means effort to save mankind from idolatry…"
One more meaning again.
Sobhani - We know jihad means 'Kill or enslave".
The truth about jihad : either convert, be enslaved, or killed.
The word "Muhammadanism" accurately describes the atavistic cult that worships and idolizes Muhammad. In no way is Jesus Christ and any Old Testament prophet elevated like Muhammad is. Elevated beyond absurdity, exemplified in cartoon riots and mass communal disturbances
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1513012/posts --->>>
In all of existence, there is no greater dichotomy than between the way Islam is portrayed by its Western admirers and the way it’s practiced by its more enthusiastic adherents. Wherever large numbers of Muslims come in contact with “infidels,” all jihad breaks loose. That’s as true on the West Bank as it is in the Kashmir, as much a reality in the Philippines as the Balkans and as sure in West Africa as it is in Indonesia.
There are two possible explanations for this phenomenon:
1) Islam is indeed a religion of sweetness and light which, for some inexplicable reason, tends to provoke the wrath of non-Muslims of every variety.
2) Islam is an atavistic cult (more ideology than religion) whose tenets glorify holy war, teach contempt for other peoples, foster toxic resentment and inspire megalomania among its followers.
Which of course, is something any mohammedan so-called 'scholar' would be expert on, since they claim (in defiance of their own kran) that the the text of the bible is 'corrupted'. Or does that only apply when its convenient?
Most Western jurists know that reason and wisdom are the main sources of Islamic jurisprudence....
Huh? This first sentence doesn't make any sense at all. It looks like a big fat lie.
The muslims tell us peace and wisdom arise from the spreading of islam and the source of islam is allah. Now they want it the other way around. I guess allah's formless form allows what it allows. Allah willing. I think.
islamic jurisprudence is derived from the fear struck into the soul of the victim. Fear, and blood, and heads, and body parts. That's how you get "justice" under islam. Human sacrifice.
I am still waiting for the muslims to end their violent occupation of Constantinople.
Spain is waiting for an aplogy, too.
"Jihad means effort to save mankind from idolatry…"
Yup, please, save yourself from those killer idols that are running around in commercial jets in New York, commuter trains in Mumbai, and school buses in Tel Aviv, exploding at will, and killing thousands of men, women, and children! Come to the only stone in the world that does not walk on its own, and be saved.
Re: Islamic jurisprudence based on reason and wisdom: clergyman
That's the same difference as Oxymoron.
Because of the general absence of logic based on facts aside from the Muslim belief-system there is a strong tendency to bad judgement in Islamic culture. For example, for many weeks before the recent Israeli reaction to the attacks from Gaza, the Israeli government stated very clearly that if the attacks continued that there were going to be "very painful consequences" for Hezbollah and the region. That "very painful consequences" warning was repeated many times by the government in Tel Aviv. Yet the attacks continued, the Israeli soldier was kidnapped, and then Muslims in the region were surprised when the Israeli response had very painful consequences for them.
For some reason many Muslims don't listen to the background music. They only listen to Islamic tunes. This will cause a catastrophe for them in the future.
This is one of the funniest things yet said by an Islamaniac. Reason and wisdom are 2 alien concepts to that cult-that's why it's one of the most deadly scourges in the world.
Once again, this marvelous philosophy is here for the world's benefit (so says one of its adherents). Thanks, but no thanks for your concern. I'd just as soon be an idolator then be "saved" by this irrational way of "life".
These Ayatollahs are just self-righteous puffed-up toads.
What do they know about the Pope and how can they have balanced views of Christianity if they are religious fanatics?
Ayatollahs cannot stand being contradicted and crack hard on anyone who would do so. So their comments on the Bible are of no value.
For a good picture of an ayatollah check out this link:
http://www.iran-e-sabz.org/news/cartoon.html
Read what happened to the cartoonist.
ITS SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, STUPID!
How hilarious that the Ayatollah can quote scripture without understanding its meaning.
"Then render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and what is God's unto God."
This is the scriptural/cultural underpinning of our American First Amendment. What Muslim majority country has put true separation of church and state into practice?
Even Europe fails in this regard like Italy allowing prosecutions (a la Oriana Fallaci) for "insulting religion". Its interesting that these "blasphemy" laws were thrown as a bone to the Catholic church when Italy took over lands previously ruled by the Pope.
Which brings us to the real questions, where are the Muslim "Protestants"? Time for a Reformation, Ayatollah dudes, else you should just flush the Koran down the sewer of history as another idolatrous cult.
There is no reasoning in islamland.
This laughable statement is almost as priceless as the one from Vietnam that went "we had to destroy the village in order to save it". That's Islam-destroying the world to save it from idolatry. Thanks for the efforts pal, you might just succeed.
He starts off with a most amazing statement that is totally incorrect, when was the last time a Western Jurist sentenced someone to be stoned for adultory. Then seems to try to accuse the pope of doing what they are doing, acting as a tyrant and clery in one go, misquotes a verse from the bible, criticises the pope for basing his words on a 14th Centaury Emperor, but of course he can quote a 7th Centaury false prophet.
Tries to justify Jihad by saying Islam is the victim of those nasty infidels that stop the truth from being spread so we are only killing you to save you from idolatry, well I really wonder how many of the commuters in London were worshipping idols. I can not see any reason in this statement at all, just confirmation that Islam kills to further their religion.
A bit of pathetic grandstanding on the Israeli conflict with Hizbullah, to stir up the victim mentality a bit more and that nasty pope did not say anything about the death of innocents. Did I hear anuthing about Hizbullah deliberately targetting innocents?
Tries to lie about Mo being able to reason with thinkers, when the number of intellectuals in Islamic countries is shrinking alarmingly every day. And of course we should not mention MO's habit of having people assassinated if they disagreed with him...
What is a good dialogue partner for this guy, someone who lick his feet and agrees with everything he says?
Ohhhh and there we go the 1.5bn Muslims makes me right.
What he did not do was make a serious attempt to go through the popes points and refute them, why, because it's the truth, instead we get a political speach with typical Islamic gymnastics intending to stir up the Islamic masses.
Once again, the quote clearly explains the gulf between what a Muslim sees and what the non-Muslims see. To the Muslims, jihad is a necessary thing in Islam in order to remove all obstacles to the islamicization of the world ... it doesn't require that everyone become Muslims (at least not at this point yet, where al-Mahdi and Isa has not appeared). And jihad in it's violent manisfestation is also one of the component, as Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia so clearly showed :
On Truth & Lies, Justice & Injustice
Zenawarriorprincess said:in what hell do you call the black stone in mecca?
If that stone broke open and out popped their god
to tell them that they've been wrong for 1400 years in all their bloody deeds Islamic "reason" would be applied: the god would be swiftly beheaded followed by riots and protests against this "profaner".
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Sobhani added, “You have in fact defied the text of the Bible, in which Jesus (AS) says: ‘Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.’
“You shouldn’t have based your words on a medieval emperor’s sayings.”
***********************************************************
So now he embraces separation of church and state?
Pathetic, really.
Prophet Geoff
Regarding the foreiners attempting to assert thier will on me or anyone i know... Don't tread on me..
http://www.foundingfathers.info/stories/gadsden.html
Most Western jurists know that reason and wisdom are the main sources of Islamic jurisprudence
Islamic Jurisprudence comes from Shariah laws. If Western jurists "know" it's wise and reasonable, then expect to see the following laws coming soon to the West:
Punishment for adultery: If unmarried; 100 lashes and up to 1 year in prison. If married; Stoning to death.
Punishment for (male or female) sodomy: Stoning to death.
Punishment for Theft - 1st offense: amputation of right hand
2nd offense: amputation of left foot
3rd offense: amputation of left hand
4th offense: amputation of right foot
Punishment for a woman who accuses a man of rape but cannot produce 4 male witnesses: Stoning to death. (A husband can never be charged with rape if the victim is one of his wives)
Marriage is legal for 9 year old girls.
Drinking alcoholic beverages: 80 lashes and imprisonment for 6 months.
Lesbianism: 40 lashes and imprisonment for 6 months.
Insulting Islam: Death
Leaving Islam: Death
Islamic jurisprudence came from the diseased mind of a megalomaniac. That and pig poop.
Here's an example of some wisdom from Mohammed and His Gang:
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=7500
Answer 7500 2002-12-20
What is the area of shaving the pubic hair for a male and female?
A: The area immediately under the navel is not to be shaven. The area of shaving for a person (male / female) is above and around the private parts. If possible, it is commendable to shave around the hind private parts as well. (Al-Kaamil, commentary of Muslim; Imaam Nawawi vol. 1 pg. 128).
It is Makrooh to leave one’s pubic hair for more than 40 days. The word, ‘Makrooh’ literally means disliked and it is a degree of impermissibility.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Here's some wisdom from Pelayo: I recommend that men try one of those chemical hair removers, it should be applied in a very, very thick layer. A hot wax treatment would be good also.
Ladies and Gents, that posting is for Muslims only, and should not be tried by any sane person. I once committed the grave error of spraying insect repellent (Off) there when I was a teenager on a camping trip. NOT RECOMMENDED!
Islam's salient trademark of reason is about well-established as the presence of talking trees and talking rocks on earth, the ones that are mentioned in the Kuran (yeah, THOSE).
Some people have apparently even been duped into believing that the Kuran's depiction of the earth being flat is divine knowledge passed onto humanity by none other than God Himself...
Islam's salient trademark of 'reason' is about as well-established as the presence of talking trees and talking rocks on earth, the ones that are mentioned in the Kuran (yeah, THOSE).
Some people have apparently even been duped into believing that the Kuran's depiction of the earth being flat is divine knowledge passed onto humanity by none other than God...
I think my head is actually going to explode from reading this garbage....the same way it wanted to explode when i tried to read the qua'rap...(LORD,please send down your angels to destroy this abomination of a religion)amen.
Pelayo,
My friends and I check that site regularly for laughs. Its amazing what you find there. Too bad these guys are dangerous.
and here is another one
Maldives staged military operation to seize the Pope
"reason and wisdom" No Way! No way do they have any. The only true Wisdom comes down from the Father of Lights. The Bible says, "If any man lacks Wisdom let him ask of God who gives liberally and upbraids not" Notice: ANY man! The "One True God" the Apostle Paul spoke about in Athens, Greece will always give a liberal portion to you and He wont fuss at you for asking.
They won't find the wisdom they so desperatly need by marching around some big black rock OR looking down some well in Jamala,Iran waiting for this so-called 12th Immammy to come up out of his hole and give forth some sort of wisdom to bless the faithful. What they will get will be something he got from some pit alright- Hell itself!!
One really effective way to converse with a Moslem is to ask them if Allah or Mohammed has done anything for them lately. When they can't give an answer, the True Christian can always testify about how THE ONE TRUE GOD (who lives inside)has blessed them and provided for them and guided them (with the still small voice) and protected them (huge Warrior Angels)and is right now providing the very exact words to say to them by the
"GUIDE INSIDE"
"The World is flat"??
That one statement alone proves its a false book. The Bible ( the B-I-B-L-E thats the Book for Me ) says that the World is round and when Colombus found the Scripture that says so, showed it to Queen Isabella and sailed in 1492.
Also the only thing I shave these days is my face. I wonder if that cream she mentioned is the old blue ointment I heard about as a teenager lo these many years ago!
Excuse please, Pelayo as I don't know for sure your gender.
"makrooh"?? Guess I've been makroohed for some time now.
Islamic jurisprudence is based on Mohamed being power and sex-obsessed.
"I am still waiting for the muslims to end their violent occupation of Constantinople.
Spain is waiting for an aplogy, too."
What, just Constantinople and not all of modern day Turkey. Oh and DO mention Cyprus.
And just Spain?
;-)