More anti-dhimmitude from Australia, where it is getting to be quite a common sight. From Australia's ABC News, with thanks to Rosie:
Federal Treasurer Peter Costello has called on Islamic societies to disconnect church from state.Mr Costello has said Islamic states should adopt a secular view free of all religion, in an address to the Australian Christian Lobby at a Christian Conference in Canberra today.
He also says Muslim societies should allow robust debate, after reaction to comments made last week by Pope Benedict XVI that sparked outrage across the Islamic world.
"How can one religion exercise the freedom to speak on its values, its faith, without prompting a violent response from other religions?" Mr Costello said.
"It can only happen where we all accept a set of rules, the right to freedom of speech without receiving violence in return."
Mr Costello says separating religion from government allows religious freedom.
"Now, I have argued that separation of church and state is good for both and further consistent with Christ's teaching," he said.
"I believe that a secular, national state can be adopted by Muslim societies and what is more, in doing so, will lead to greater technological and economic progress."
"A secular, national state" - kinda like the old Iraq then?
More like Turkey, perhaps. I don't think Costello is a big fan of dictatorships.
Peter Costello has the right idea, but he's asking the impossible of Islam.
Islam not only has no conception of a separate civil realm, but it also has no ability to create the concept. It is simply not in its epistemology.
Islam is a political ideology masqurading as a religion. It cannot allow for separation of Church and State.
Good luck to the guy, but I hope someone explains this to him.
I expect he'll be accused of racism any time soon.
Sigh. More racist breathing. When will these dhimmis learn that islamofascism will only be cured by the incredible fairness of stooping and bending and pleading?
Prophet Geoff
Sigh. More racist breathing. When will these dhimmis learn that islamofascism will only be cured by the incredible fairness of stooping and bending and pleading?
Prophet Geoff
Geoff don't let the state of England get to you, I know, I feel just a depressed as you. There are times when I cringe and am ashamed to call myself an Englishman. Have no fear we will get a dynamic duo like Howard and Costello, cometh the time cometh the men. There is a sea change coming in Britain. I don't know if you feel it but I do. One day soon we will have regained our backbone, when the Government finally realises that you cannot compromise with these people and they have to be confronded head on. We will be able to say how we feel about things, and not suffer from shout at the television syndrom, when we see some Dimmi politician or so called expert waffling on about multiculturism, moral relativism, or any other such twaddle.
The trouble with Australia is that the Australian people have already been dhimmitized where it counts--in and through the legislative sphere of their government. The Muslim sector of Australia's population has already been catered to by dint of the law and now receives the special treatment it clamors for.
Anti-dhimmitude is unlikely to reverse the general situation for the moment at least, welcome though it may be.
If you think that old Iraq or turkey are the answers you are illuded.
Both places had their share of honor killing, barbarian behaviour, and mistreatment of minorities.
Plus it seems to me that with people like muzlims who like to feel superior, the change from islamist to nationalists doesn't change situation to better.
They always need a reason to feel superior to others and to be able to harass whoever is not from their cult/nationality
These words should have been said by Condi and Bush as well. It's a shame they are not.
I think I'll look this chap up and take him out to lunch next time I visit down under. Then again, it's easy to be brave when you aren't living in some place like the Islamic republic of Holland, where you'd probably have a fatwa put on you within hours if you stepped out of line.
Brett, Turkey is a military dictatorship with the superficial apparatus of democratic trappings.
Secondly, Saddam's Iraq was not "secular": even a tyrant as brutal as Saddam had to kowtow to Muslim clerics and adopt puritanical laws, such as beheading prostitutes and posting their decapitated heads in public as a warning against public "immorality". Saddam had to kowtow, because the pathogen of Islam was so prevalent on a grassroots level, he would have had to imprison and/or execute almost everybody in Iraq in order to effectively subdue it. (A similar dynamic has pertained in Turkey, where Islamic culture and psychology remains strong among the masses of people -- so strong, even the secular military dictatorship cannot suppress it nor has been able to change it through cultural and educational programs over the past several decades --, and a sophisticated quasi-secularism exists mostly only among certain professional classes in two major cities, Istanbul and Ankara.)
Costello is correct, but he may not realize how difficult it is for Muslim mass psychology to separate mosque and state. The two are so fused in Islamic culture and psychology, it would be like asking a person to cut himself in half. The surgical operation of separating mosque and state, to the Muslim mind, is a deep affront of a blade into the flesh, bone and heart of Islam. And if that isn't bad enough, it is a surgical operation that most of them know is a uniquely Western idea -- and therefore cannot be received by them as anything other than an imposition of an external Infidel rule upon Islam.
I told you blokes that our leaders in Australia arent as gutless as the ones in some other western countries (note my diplomatic tone). Bush/Blair/Chriac/etc etc should pay attention.
Enjoy your sunday.
I think Peter Costello knows full well that islam cannot be separated into "church and state".
I think he was doing what the Pope did: saying these things for non-muslim audiences who don't know enough about islam.
It is a subtle way of spreading the word that islam is not good.
Yes, some concessions have been made to muslims here, but I think the federal government is aware of the threat of militant islam. They must have been warned by Blair etc etc!
They are aware that muslim infiltration, and its demands have got to be stopped.
Even at the memorial service for Croc Man Steve Irwin the Prime Minister went to great lengths to enforce what he, and Steve Irwin, believed in:
family and love of one's country.
I believe he strongly made this point for a reason.
When the war in Lebanon was on many Lebanese Aussies have dual citizenship, and possibly divided loyalties.I am sure he had this in mind.
Anyway, we know how the PM feels, we know how Costello feels and we know how Cardinal Pell feels - and it is a GOOD thing!
remote_control, agreed; of course Turkey is not a great example, but then again what muslim country is? Singapore has a large muslim minority (?), but then again it isn't a democracy (Democracy, Immigration, Multi-culturalism - pick any two, as Jim Bennett says).
I think Costello's remarks were aimed at the West - pointing out a failing that an enemy cannot easily address is a good tactic. It's called keeping the upper hand. It also helps remind us that what we have in the West is something a bit special.
The reaction here from the kooks, who thereby further marginalize themselves, has been quite gratifying.
Holger: I hope so. I'm afraid of saying anything for fear of jinxing it. Let's pray things move along swiftly; minimize the damage.
God Save the Queen.
Prophet Geoff
bbuh
Holger, Geoff
I have a gut feeling, that we in Britain are moving in the right direction. I will say no more.