A taqiyya-fest from the Gwinnett Daily Post (thanks to Twostellas):
A lot of your questions concerned the Muslim view of women. M. J. O’Rourke of Savannah asked: “What do Muslims believe about the rights of women?”Soumaya Khalifa, the female member of the group, said women enjoy special status. “A woman cannot be married off to someone of whom she disapproves. She is not required to spend any money that she brings into the marriage. That is the husband’s responsibility.”
Yousef Burke said Muslim women are required to dress modestly, but so are men. In a dig at Western culture, the panelists said Muslims look at women who are uncovered as “oppressed” because they are valued as “sex symbols” rather than for their intellect.
Mansour Ansari wanted you to know that four Muslim countries have had female prime ministers: Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh. Jabari Alexander said a female currently heads up the Islamic Society of North America. All the panelists said there is nothing in the Quran that justifies treating women as second-class citizens.
Khalifa, Ansari, and Burke don't seem to have mentioned the fact that rather than regarding women as human beings equal to men, the Qur'an likens a woman to a field (tilth), to be used by a man as he wills: "Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will" (2:223). It declares that a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man: "Get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her" (2:282). It allows men to marry up to four wives, and have sex with slave girls also: "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice" (4:3). It rules that a son's inheritance should be twice the size of that of a daughter: "Allah (thus) directs you as regards your children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females" (4:11). Worst of all, the Qur’an tells husbands to beat their disobedient wives: "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them" (4:34). It allows for marriage to pre-pubescent girls, stipulating that Islamic divorce procedures “shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated” (65:4).
Now, if they had mentioned that there were some elements of the Qur'an that made things difficult for women in Islamic societies, and that these needed to be rejected, they would be sincere reformers. But when they don't mention them to infidels who almost certainly don't know that they're there at all, they're just leaving a false impression.
Deanna Cox of Sugar Hill asked the panel to define “infidel.” Amin Tomeh claimed there is no such word in Islam. The panelists say the term “infidel” has its origin in Christianity, when Pope Urban urged Crusaders to kill “infidels.”Tomeh said if any Muslim refers to a Jew or a Christian as an infidel, “They don’t know what they are talking about. God will judge those who judge others.”
Isn't an "infidel" someone without the faith -- an unbeliever?
"The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!" -- Qur'an 9:30
"They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary." -- Qur'an 5:17
All the panelists said Muslims should be tolerant of other faiths and vice versa. Soumaya Khalifa, who operates the Islamic Speakers Bureau, said she has spoken in both synagogues and Christian churches and believes Jews, Christians and Muslims to be “96 to 97 percent together” on many issues and concerns.Ansari says Muslims, Jews and Christians are “of the book,” meaning they all believe in the same God. Tomeh said Saudi Arabia has no basis in the Quran to prevent people from practicing whatever religion they choose.
That's true. But there is this hadith, in which Muhammad says: "I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim" (Muslim 19.4366). It would have been nice if Ansari had mentioned this and explained why it should be rejected, and current Saudi laws revised.
Fred Hahn of Roswell asked if a Muslim can leave the faith and accept another religion. Yes, said the panel. Tomeh said the Quran has ample references for allowing people to believe what they want, and that if “God wanted everyone to be of one religion, he would have created that religion.”
Did Tomeh mention the hadith in which Muhammad says: "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" (Bukhari 9.84.57)? If not, why not? After all, apostasy is a death penalty offense in many places in the Islamic world today, so obviously many accept that hadith. Why not address this?
After all that, they reassure questioners that they would side with America in a war against the Islamic world. In light of their record on these other questions, that's perhaps not as reassuring as it could or should be.
"She is not required to spend any money that she brings into the marriage. That is the husband’s responsibility.”
ROFL!
Finally, a reason for me to revert.
Mansour Ansari wanted you to know that four Muslim countries have had female prime ministers: Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh:
This is incorrect. Malaysia has had a few female Ministers, but never a female PRIME Minister!
Gotta go gag!!!!!
The argument, the Koran does not call unbelievers 'infidels' has been made before. I was wondering about that. But then what is the meaning of 'Kafir' or 'Mushrikeen'?? Are we supposed to feel better to be described as 'unclean, the worst of beings', between feces, urine & cadavers?' This, according to the Grand Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani, who has this up on his official website?
The rest is the usual claptrap, worthless taqiyya. Thanks to Robert & Jihad-watch easily and often refuted Islamic agit-prop, baseless lies and beautification of the RoP...
People who know are no longer fooled!
What an aroma from this fresh, steaming pile! Big green flies are swarming to chow on it.
http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=infidel&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
these pathetic cows of islam like to act superior about how they dress modestly, can they answer why would a god make them cover their hair, how is that modest? and those burkas with the full window over the faces, how does this liberate women? and men covering themselves up for what? yeah you see the how they avoid to tell the truth, you need someone with knowledge like Robert or Hugh to ask the questions about when do they take the Hadiths seriously?
unbeliever
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=unbeliever&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
disbeliever
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=disbeliever&chapter=&translator=4&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
Modest? Spare me. When I was in Dubai at one of their WONDERFUL malls (they do have beautiful buildings), I witnessed the women in their long garb buying trendy clothes at a trendy fashion shop. They dress like the rest of us under those black blankets. When they are at home, they remove the blankets and look like us.
It's just that their men are pervs so if they cover up the women then they don't have to worry about some other guy looking at their women. Of course, I saw other women tourists who wore sleeveless dresses and the men were giving them a good stare! It's OKAY for the men to drool over other women....even if they belong to someone else...so long as no one looks at their woman. Hypocrites.
BTW, can anyone tell me how the men get their sheets such a BRILLIANT white? ???????
Mountebanks of all kinds offering their wares in the press for the credulous, inquiring Infidels, who merely would like a straightforward and truthful answer to a simple question: how are women treated in Islam? And that is what they will not get.
Instead, there is every kind of verbal swindler on display: one person is selling snake oil, another offering passersby to "get your taqiyya-and-tu-quoque here" and still a third is playing three-card monte. And still a fourth is playing a shell game, putting a button under one of three big walnut shells, then shuffling them around, and asking you to guess.
And at that Bartholomew or Country Fair, that last person, who keeps winning dollars from those who choose now this shell, now another, as the one under which that button must lie concealed -- is naturally shouting "Button, button, who's got the button?" After all, this is the fair sponsored by the Gwinnett Daily Post, in Gwinnett, Georgia.
A taqiyya-fest for sure...
*hack spit*
I swear, it is downright astounding to me that the 'real world' hasn't yet absorbed this yet, the fact that Muslims can and will lie right to your face in defense of their 'religion'.
What is even more scary is that the mainstream media still buys their bullshit.
I've said it before, and unfortunately I still believe that it will take 2 more 9/11's to get the civilized West to recognize that Islam is not a religion at all - that in fact it is a political movement designed to rule the world and circumvent our way of life and our authority over the people.
At least we have ppl like Mr. Spencer here at JihadWatch and Charles over at LGF and whoever it is that runs WesternResistance and whoever it is that runs the ReligionOfPeace website to put forth the truth as it is for us (shame on me for not knowing their names.)
Again, I state the extreme importance of Robert and Charles and those like him that attempt to educate the masses to this threat we, and our children and grandchildren, face.
If we do not face them and fight them NOW, we leave it to the future generations to do so... for this is a battle for the generations.
These presenters forget that in the Koran, verse 4:34 promotes violence against married women.
JenBee,
This article simply shows what the non-Muslim world is up against. We have to face the reality that it is not just only physical warfare that the Muslims do, but mental and spiritual. It was a miracle I did not scream when I had seen the words that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God. Good grief that is not true. Thankfully because of the internet, the truth about Islam is now starting to come out.
I hope these guileless suckers didn't fall for this taquiya fest, but people who ask muslims generalized questions aren't really looking for the truth, they're looking for comfortable reassurances. It makes me sick that people are stupid enough to fall for these sucker sessions sponsored by deceitful, arrogant muslims. They should be shunned and ignored. Why give them the satisfaction of recognition and legitimacy, which only further inflates their delusions of supremacy and encourages activism?
The truth about islam can be found in the historical record spanning the 1350 years of islam's existence; in islam's canonical texts; in the words and deeds of muslims, and in the weekly sermons of islamic clerics. The weekly sermons emanating from SAudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, and even right here in America expose islam's diabolical dogma, and MEMRI is kind enough to publish translated transcripts of them. These alone should scare the hell out of the Bush administration, but apparently they pay no attention to what the dying-for-democracy-and-freedom hordes lap up in the mosques every week. IF they did, they would understand that "freedom" to these people means subjugation and submission to muhammad's delusional allah, the antithesis of democracy.
Actually, this is a ploy to deceive gullible Americans. Muslims think that Americans don't know about Quran or any religion. They get their knowledge by watching TV. Hence, if Muslikms can lie their way and get away with it, the better.
I am wondering why no American asked about Quran(009:029), (047:004) and (005:033).
In the meantime, on a different note the following newsitem
NYT Report: More Muslims Arrive in US after Sept 11, 2001
The situation will get worse in USA, unless checks on Muslim immigration occurs. I don't know how the visas are given to Muslims when US Govt. knows that the terrorists who have attecked USA are Muslikms, and with the disclaimer that not all Muslims are terrorists.
Golly folks,
Did anyone actually read the article?
Follow along here, and you will then know just how badly the Gwinette Daily Post sponsored meeting was rooked:
"Why don’t moderate Muslims speak out on Islamic terrorism?
My panel said they do...Finally, in the interest of continuing this dialogue, they asked me to refer you to their Web site (www.cair.com)...
Is anyone still surprised?
We have to understand and feel sorry for these poor Muslim men...
The real reason that they have to keep their women covered and in bondage is because they are very weak and can't control their sexual urges. We have to understand that in their culture that if a woman is raped she is stoned to death, so if the women didn't keep themselves covered they would all be raped and there would be no women left for their men...
I was once told by a Muslim man that the reasons that men have more than one wife is so as he wouldn't go out and be unfaithful to his wife's as when they have their monthly he has a choice of who he can sleep with, he said that western men go out and sleep with anyone, he obviously didn't know that Muslims men still do that when they can and many of our men are faithful.... it seems a shame that their men are once again so weak that they cannot control themselves until after their wife is clean again.. poor dears....
"In a dig at Western culture, the panelists said Muslims look at women who are uncovered as “oppressed” because they are valued as “sex symbols” rather than for their intellect."
-- from the article above
Isn't it a rather oppressive view of women to regard any female person (regardless of age, style etc) who is not covered by a burkha "a sex symbol"?
A nice little fairy tale written by a name familiar to these pages, and posted on Up Pompeii:
religion of pieces said...
As I paddled through the streets of Manchester one evening, the rain stopped falling!
The shocked populace paused from their customary activity of shooting one another, and looked aghast at a rent in the grey firmament - a blue patch in the sky!
As if this wasn't miracle enough, the clouds cleared in the west and the setting sun illuminated a huge multicolored rainbow emblazoned with the words 'Welcome to Moderate Islam'.
Many hundreds of sleeping moonbats hung upside down from the rainbow. I followed it to where it reached the ground in the idyllic village of Moss Side, and there I found two pixies, four elves and a Moderate Muslim.
The Moderate Muslim said "I denounce all forms of terrorism without reservation", then he jumped on his unicorn and galloped off to where the sun was setting in a muddy pool in the west, probably Pennington Flash near Leigh.
As the customary downpour resumed, the rainbow faded and the soggy moonbats fluttered angrily as they woke up and found they had no visible means of support.
Flying just above roof-height to avoid the sodden clouds, the moonbats squeaked to all who would listen "We must respect Moderate Islam" and "It's a peaceful religion hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists"
..............................
No stereotypes have been harmed in telling this story.
12:37 AM, September 10, 2006
DON'T FORGET THAT COURAGEOUS WOMAN BRIGITTE GABRIEL......TURNED DOWN BY THE MAJOR BOOKSTORES IN MANHATTAN FOR A BOOK SIGNING.......THEY DON'T WANT TO OFFEND MUSLIMS.....THEY DO NOT WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW THE TRUTH. YEARS AGO THESE SAME COWARDS WANTED TO SUPPRESS SALMAN RUSHDIE'S Satanic Verses. MANY DO NOT KNOW THAT PUBLISHERS ARE RESTRICTED BY MUSLIMS. ALSO CBS, ABC, NBC TURNED THEIR COWARD FACES AND REFUSED HER INTERVIEWS.
Jenbee says: Again, I state the extreme importance of Robert and Charles and those like him that attempt to educate the masses to this threat we, and our children and grandchildren, face.
Here is a wonderful little fairy tale posted by "Religion of Pieces" ( a name I first encountered here on JW)on the Up Pompeii site. I live in Manchester, so the references to rain and gun-related activities strike a chord with me. As it happens, so does the rest of the story:
religion of pices said...
"“Too much importance is being placed on the terms ‘extreme’ and ‘moderate’. We must be clear: a Muslim is a Muslim..."
Every Muslim believes the koran is the eternally valid word of Allah. So the commands to kill, rape, torture and mutilate unbelievers are as valid now as the day they were written.
Any Muslim who does not believe he has a duty to kill, rape, torture and mutilate unbelievers is an apostate.
So my respect towards Islam and Muslims is the same respect I would give to a seething mass of extremely angry and venomous snakes.
My respect for the koran extends to my advice to the Mayor of Manchester
(isn't that un-PC - surely it should be Personchester) to buy an easily rolled-up paperback copy of the koran, lubricate it with bacon fat, and insert it where the sun don't shine.
12:00 AM, September 10, 2006
religion of pieces said...
As I paddled through the streets of Manchester one evening, the rain stopped falling!
The shocked populace paused from their customary activity of shooting one another, and looked aghast at a rent in the grey firmament - a blue patch in the sky!
As if this wasn't miracle enough, the clouds cleared in the west and the setting sun illuminated a huge multicolored rainbow emblazoned with the words 'Welcome to Moderate Islam'.
Many hundreds of sleeping moonbats hung upside down from the rainbow. I followed it to where it reached the ground in the idyllic village of Moss Side, and there I found two pixies, four elves and a Moderate Muslim.
The Moderate Muslim said "I denounce all forms of terrorism without reservation", then he jumped on his unicorn and galloped off to where the sun was setting in a muddy pool in the west, probably Pennington Flash near Leigh.
As the customary downpour resumed, the rainbow faded and the soggy moonbats fluttered angrily as they woke up and found they had no visible means of support.
Flying just above roof-height to avoid the sodden clouds, the moonbats squeaked to all who would listen "We must respect Moderate Islam" and "It's a peaceful religion hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists"
..............................
No stereotypes have been harmed in telling this story.
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
" In a dig at Western culture, the panelists said Muslims look at women who are uncovered as “oppressed” because they are valued as “sex symbols” rather than for their intellect" - from the article.
They don't see them as oppressed. They see them as prey. This covering-up is less to do with modesty and more to do with hiding your property from view. Just like a miser with his hoard. He doesn't want anyone else to covet it.
BTW how can men value women for their intellects if they're not allowed to even talk to them.
In a dig at Western culture, the panelists said Muslims look at women who are uncovered as “oppressed” because they are valued as “sex symbols” rather than for their intellect ---
They don't see them as oppressed. They see them as prey. And how can they value a women's intellect if they're not allowed to talk to them?
Covering has little to do with 'modesty' and all to do with male ownership. Like any miser, the male muslim does not want anyone else coveting his property.
the panelists said Muslims look at women who are uncovered as “oppressed” because they are valued as “sex symbols” rather than for their intellect."
-- from the article above
WHAT, these poor Muslim women are not allowed to be educated, nor are they allowed to do anything or think anything other than a man says she can. A woman is counted as half a man, she is not worth anything, even in court she is counted as to stupid to answer for herself, and they talk about valuing their woman's intellect, come on who are they trying to hood wink....
"the panelists said Muslims look at women who are uncovered as “oppressed” because they are valued as “sex symbols” rather than for their intellect."
I sense that in truth, the Muslim women in silence view us Western women with envy because we are more realistic with what we wear and most of the time it is moderate and ressonable.
Mr Spencer,
The multiple posts - the early warning sign from last time. They've started again. I've also noticed it takes forever to get a comment in ...
I also gat a spate of "High incident count" i.e. malicious, probes every time I go to my anti-Mulim sites. This doesn't happen when I go to my non-anti-Muslim sites.
Maybe it's just me and my friendly paranoia ... ?
"Mansour Ansari wanted you to know that four Muslim countries have had female prime ministers: Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh."
and this didn't prevent those countries to be shitholes. Well done half brained women!
"I was once told by a Muslim man that the reasons that men have more than one wife is so as he wouldn't go out and be unfaithful to his wife's as when they have their monthly he has a choice of who he can sleep with"
this is the proof that the muslim men are more stupid than animals. Women living together synchronize their period so a certain week the 4 of them are unavailable.
Muslim man = half a brain of a normal man
muslim woman = half a brain of a muslim man
the muslim woman has got 1/4th of a brain of a normal person...
Somewhere in the Quran (I forget which verse) it says that it is okay to deceive your enemy.
If you noticed, as I have, those answering the questions, didn't fully answer them with the truth. They were telling half truths or deceiving those listening and asking the questions.
I'm glad that most Americans can discern that which is true and that which isn't.
It has been said, "Don't listen to what a man/woman says, pay attention to his/her actions."
No matter what they say about their love for America, their actions speaks louder.
Golly folks,
Did anyone actually read the article?
Follow along here, and you will then know just how badly the Gwinette Daily Post sponsored meeting was rooked:
"Why don’t moderate Muslims speak out on Islamic terrorism?
My panel said they do...Finally, in the interest of continuing this dialogue, they asked me to refer you to their Web site (www.cair.com)...
Instead of "infidel" she should have asked for the definitions of "kafir/kafur" and "abeed".......
Saudi Arabia and Islam is full of Deceptions!
Yes, woman are special in Islam. Their word in trial or law is only accepted when 2 give the same testimony; their worth is 1/2 that of a man in death compensation or inheritance. Yes, they can say no to marrying a certain man, and she can be raped into submission, or just honor-murdered by her father or a relative. Yes, men are to dress modestly, but how many are pulled off the streets and arrested for what they are wearing, in Iran, Packistan,the middle east etc.
Have you ever heard of a man being beaten anywhere, anytime, in any country for the way he was dressed?? And what of the epidomic of the,"Rape of the Unveiled woman" in the EU, both Muslim and non-muslim like by Muslin men?? In the courts of law in Muslim lands it takes 4 Muslin men in good standing who have observed the rape to valaidate the rape of a muslin woman. I do have a question at this point in time what were 4 muslin men in good standing, standing around observing a rape?? Enjoying the view?? Checking for penatration?? Checking for virginity?? And then there is the wonderfull "beat them lightly" law, if they displease you.
Oh Yeah Muslim woman are held in high high honor.
Yeah being raped, honor-murdered, beated.
And theres old Mo, who stated:1 woman in 1000 gets into heaven because they are: morally, spiritually, and mentally deficient!
I'd say why don't these woman leave, but then as a medical professional I relize Islam is a 1,400 year old case study in abuse of woman,(and children), and the physcological effects there on. It proves the loss of self, the pit into which these abused souls decend.
Yes, woman are special in Islam. Their word in trial or law is only accepted when 2 give the same testimony; their worth is 1/2 that of a man in death compensation or inheritance.
Yes, they can say no to marrying a certain man, and she can be raped into submission, or just honor-murdered by her father or a relative.
Yes, men are to dress modestly, but how many are pulled off the streets and arrested for what they are wearing, in Iran, Packistan,the middle east etc. Question?? Have you ever heard of a man being beaten anywhere, anytime, in any country for the way he was dressed??
And what of the epidomic of the, "Rape of the Unveiled woman" in the EU, both Muslim and non-muslim alike by Muslin men??
In the courts of law in Muslim lands it takes 4 Muslin men in good standing who have observed the rape to valaidate the rape of a muslin woman. I do have a question at this point in time ,what were 4 muslin men in good standing, standing around observing a rape for?? Were they: Enjoying the view?? Checking for penatration?? Checking for virginity??
And then there is the wonderfull "beat them lightly if they displease you" law, in that wonderful book called the "satanic holy koran,.
Oh Yeah Muslim woman are held in high high honor.
Yeah being raped, honor-murdered,& beaten.
And theres old Mo, who stated: 1 woman in 1000 gets into heaven because they are: morally, spiritually, and mentally deficient! Good old Mo the lover and elevator of woman everywhere! What can you say about the guy except "What a guy"!!
I'd say why don't these woman leave, but then as a medical professional I relize Islam is a 1,400 year old case study in thr abuse of woman,(and children), and the physcological effects there on. It proves the loss of self, the pit into which these abused souls decend.
Benazir Bhutto was one of these female Muslim leaders when she was the prime minister of Pakistan. But I remember reading an article about her at the time that made a HUGE impression on me -- the reporter witnessed her husband slap her when she and her husband were traveling together. SLAP her. How much status can Muslim women have when even prime ministers are subjected to spousal abuse?
What a waste of time! Listening to Muslims. What's next? Show and Tell with (real) Suicide Bombers!