Just days after running Ralph Peters' fearless screed against nobody in particular, the New York Post has had the temerity to run a piece by a bigoted Islamophobe who dares to say that in the Qur'an "there's enough there for someone of extreme tendencies to find their way to a global jihad." And even worse, this hatemonger is...an Arab-American. Call out the big guns: Ralphie, grab your quill! Ibrahim Hooper, contact Condi and O'Reilly! The dam is bursting!
Seriously, I am in daily contact with so many Arab-Americans who likewise only dare speak out against all this in private. I hope this article heralds a change in that.
September 12, 2006 -- WELL, here it is, five years late, but here just the same: an apology from an Arab-American for 9/11. No, I didn't help organize the killers or contribute in any way to their terrible cause. However, I was one of millions of Arab-Americans who did the unspeakable on 9/11: nothing.The only time I raised my voice in protest against these men who killed thousands of innocents in the name of Allah was behind closed doors, among the safety of friends and family. I did at one point write a very vitriolic essay condemning their actions, but fear of becoming another Salman Rushdie kept me from ever trying to publish it.
Well, I'm sick of saying the truth only in private - that Arabs around the world, including Arab-Americans like myself, need to start holding our own culture accountable for the insane, violent actions that our extremists have perpetrated on the world at large.
Yes, our extremists and our culture.
Every single 9/11 hijacker was Arab and a Muslim. The apologists (including President Bush) tried to reassure us that 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam, but was a twisting of a great and noble religion. With all due respect, read the Koran, Mr. President. There's enough there for someone of extreme tendencies to find their way to a global jihad.
There's also enough there for someone of a different mindset to find a path to enlightenment and peace. Still, Rushdie had it right back in 2001: This does have to do with Islam. A Christian who bombs an abortion clinic in the name of God is still a Christian, at least in his interpretation, and saying otherwise doesn't negate the fact that he has spent a goodly amount of time figuring out his version of the one true and right thing to do.
The men who killed 3,000 of our citizens on 9/11 in all likelihood died saying prayers to Allah, and that by itself is one of the most horrific things to me about that day.
And, while my grandparents never waged a jihad, their attitudes toward Jews weren't that much different than Mohammed Atta's. No, they didn't support the Holocaust, but they did believe that Jews were trouble in many different ways, and those sorts of beliefs were passed on to me before I'd ever actually met a Jew.
Read it all.
This is great news and the full article is good reading. I can only hope that more of his fellow Arab Muslims also speak out to the point where it "snow balls" to their community leaders.
The UN, E.U & the U.S need to understand what is written in the Koran and take appropriate action.
The author points out that he is frightened of consequences of speaking out against his religion.
Any religion that scares you to death is not a religion I would want to be a part of.
His religion does deal in death.
Since this is a fight to defend Western Civilization, we should act in the best ways of our culture and always welcome new participants. After all, the story of the West is the story of ever expanding freedom.
People of Muslim heritage who want to join us should be most welcome to the 21st century.
"...need to start holding our own culture accountable for the insane, violent actions that our extremists have perpetrated on the world at large."
-- from the article above
The sentiments of an individual who has been born into Islam, and who recognizes the problem of Islamic attitudes, are welcome.
However, analysis of how hostile attitudes toward all non-Muslims are rooted in the texts, must be forthrightly admitted, if there is to be anything beyond a collection of brave apostates, such as Wafa Sultan or Walid Shoebat, or as in this case, a Muslim-for-identification-purposes-only Muslim with the ethnicity of "Arab" being what continues to link him, in his own view, to Islam. It is not the "culture" out of which these attitudes toward Jews and other non-Muslims comes, but from Islam itself, which in turn gives rise to the attitudes that suffuse, and help to create, the attitudes to be found with particular virulence in Arab Muslim societies, but also among non-Arab Muslims as well, sometimes in a form slightly diluted by the tug of other identities, sometimes (as in the case of Pakistan) just as virulent.
I'm with you, exsgtbrown, about the nature of this "religion". But I'll shake this man's hand, if ever I meet him in person.
Aren't his words exactly what we've been asking for from the "moderate" Muslim population in America? Someone commented on DW, when I posted a link to this article, that it's probably taqqiya. I don't think so; those are vaguely-worded homilies designed to take the edge off one's fear of the Islamic world.
I imagine that he's looking over his shoulder a lot now. I hope he's, like Robert, in an "undisclosed location".
exsgtbrown posted
"The author points out that he is frightened of consequences of speaking out against his religion.
Any religion that scares you to death is not a religion I would want to be a part of.
His religion does deal in death".
Which strikes me as a very fair comment
But there is good news in this, this man is speaking out, it got published in the MSM and as Robert points out there are plenty more like him who at present are to scared to go public.
We need more like him to come forward and challenge the Jihadist version / vision
The Anti war crowd have a saying, "not in my name"
Maybe Islam might want to borrow it?
Why is the 'fraction' of Islam, who are radical heard while the alleged majority is silent?
It's cultural. It is culturally unacceptable to speak out against fellow Muslims/Arabs, whether they are right/wrong/insane, and those who speak out are treated worse than the nut cases who button the explosive vests onto their children in full view of the neighborhood.
Extremists of every race, creed and culture, need to be forced to the fringes of society -- literally and figuratively -- so they can be watched, seen, and scrutinized by all.
Allowing the extremists to blend-in to the crowd of the majority of the culture does what to the rest of the culture?
My mother taught me a simple principle: "Guilt by association." She said, "it doesn't matter that you didn't do anything, people know you hang out with that guy, and they know that he has a reputation. Now you share his reputation, because you are associated with him!" That is a hard lesson to learn as a child/teen, but in your heart you know the truth of the message.
Likewise, Jesus said that the person who enters a shepherd's field by climbing over the fence and not entering through the gate is a thief.
We have power of discernment to gauge people's intent by their actions. When you are hanging out with people who are extremists -- well, you're painted with the same brush that is used to discern extremism. If the terrorists "blend in" with Arabic/Islamic culture, what does that say about the culture!?
Islam: overhaul your culture! Oust the extremists, stand up for peace, and do not allow the terrorists to blend in with you OR face the fact that all Arabs will be treated as *potential* terrorists, because there's no way for the rest of us (or even for you) to know who is and who isn't.
This isn't a "race" issue, a religious, or even a freedom of religion issue. This is a cultural issue, where extremists are *allowed* to blend in to their surroundings.
This is a call out to all societies, races, cultures, states, cities, countries: Reject them! Send them out! Cast them away like a leper in times of old - mark them as unclean, and they will float to the surface like a dead fish, where they can be pulled out before they pollute the rest of pond with their disease.
I agree, Hugh, except that Islamic tenets and "culture" are so intertwined throughout the Muslim world (as expected by Islam, of course), that one must start somewhere to untangle the knots.
I see your writings, and Robert's, to be one (very, very important) aspect of the fight. Having a Muslim speak words such as Dabul's are another. Baby steps are better than no steps.
(I am still waiting for the signs to go up in the Muslim-owned delis in NYC that explicitly disapprove of Islamic jihad before I spend a dime there. Ever heard of "when Hell freezes over...."?)
Please, ANYONE WITH SOME MEDIA TIES, DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO GET THIS GENTLEMAN ON THE MEDIA....WE NEED TO SEE AND HEAR THIS ON TELEVISION.
On the Fox News program, Mara Liason started that "Islam and what we're fighting are two different things".
I sent an email with my objections. I included the link and two passages from the letter for her information:
"Yes, our extremists and our culture."
"Every single 9/11 hijacker was Arab and a Muslim. The apologists (including President Bush) tried to reassure us that 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam, but was a twisting of a great and noble religion. With all due respect, read the Koran, Mr. President. There's enough there for someone of extreme tendencies to find their way to a global jihad."
I don't think she knows more about Islam than Mr. Dabul (the author of the letter), and perhaps this will help change her mind.
"...in the Qur'an "there's enough there for someone of extreme tendencies to find their way to a global jihad."
So, it really doesn't matter if they speak out or not. That is why this book should, and must somehow, be buried. It contains words not welcomed in, or compatible with, Western civilization and the 21st century. For "Qur'anic truths" to be realized, the elightened truths of our Constitution must be denied. That's the choice to be made.
From article: Quran... "There's also enough there for someone of a different mindset to find a path to enlightenment and peace".
Enlightenment? Where are the 'enlightened' muslims?
What is an enlightened muslim? The only 'enlightened' muslims are apostates.
According to the author, 'extreemists', are the problem.
This: "that Arabs around the world, including Arab-Americans like myself, need to start holding our own culture accountable for the insane, violent actions that our extremists have perpetrated on the world at large".
And this:"With all due respect, read the Koran, Mr. President. There's enough there for someone of extreme tendencies to find their way to a global jihad".
So Islam is really is a religion of peace and enlightenment. It is only these darn extreemists (mis-interpreters of Islam) who cause problems...If you believe that, I have a few bridges for sale.
The author also ignores the FACT that ALL muslims are OBLIGATED to participate in jihad.
I see this as a luke warm apology for Islamic behavior and would NOT like to see this shucking and jiving on TV.
I would like to thank the author for his courage and honesty. No doubt that was hard for him to say. A man like that, who recognizes evil, is someone that is welcome in our society.
This may be a small bit of good news, but good news nevertheless. We need more American Muslims to come forward like this, instead of the silence and usual complaning about Islamophobia. Like Hugh, I welcome any Muslim who rejects the violence and intolerance ingrained in Islam.
Given the way Islamists deal with those few brave Muslims who dare to criticize the evil acts done in Islam's name, this man is a brave soul indeed. Hopefully, more will be encouraged to speak out.
I don't believe in collective guilt. We are all individuals. However, it has to be a nightmare for Arabs who use their God given powers of reason to see Islam's mandate to deceive the unbeliever, to do violence to the unbeliever, to have their reason and logic attacked as unorthodox. I'm sure raising questions can be very dangerous for them.
Freedom and freedom of speech is really about the unlimited right to reason and to express thoughts based on reason. Freedom is in danger from both a licence that abuses it and a totalitarian attitude (Islam, e.g.) that seeks to control human reason.
Freedom of conscience, freedom to express ideas and opinions based on reason, is the exception and not the rule in history. We must be honest with ourselves and recognize that history is not on the side of those who want the unlimited right to reason, it is on the side of those who seek the totalitarian control of the person.
Two things must be said about this letter:
1. Bravo!
2. We need more like it from moderate muslims from around the world.
I hope this writer is not killed or terrorized in any way.
If he is not treated poorly, we might finally be able to calculate the percent of the likely 7-8 million muslims (or 2.8-10 million, depending on who you read) living in the US that wont turn on us someday (like the muslims in Britain recently warning that treating muslims with suspicion will make them attack).
If no other muslims living in the US take sides with this author when they see they have nothing to fear, perhaps there are NO TRULY PEACEFUL ones. Then he could see how right or wrong JW.org and all the linked sites have been.
Then maybe we can ask this writer to draft legislation in a manner that is skillful, fair and respectful to Muslims to have all the rest of them deported. Peaceful people that don't want to extinguish or enslave others can stay and everyone else should be deported.
Since the Koran was written at least 700 years after Mohammed died...
www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-koran-manuscripts.htm
...all the fluff about illiterate Mohammed dictating Allah's words to scribes should be dismissed. Assuming any of it's true, "what Allah really meant to say" is going to be as well written now as 700 years after he died and certainly more in keeping with the times. This author could take out the verses that can be used to call believers to violence and take out the parts of Sharia law that apply to anyone other than muslims. There are some good parts in the sharia laws if applied to themselves. For example, the stuff about them ringing up debt on credit cards being against Allah is a great feature of sharia law, but all the parts about the non muslims shouldn't be in there at all.
Hopefully this all happens soon before any more young black males or occupants of our prison system (who are turning to Islam at the fastest rates of all groups in America) wrongly join ranks with Islam out of upset with white america who did in fact purchase and use black slaves many years ago, without knowing that it was Islam that captured all those black slaves and millions more that were sold to Brazil and other non-USA countries for decades before the slave market dried up in those countries and then came to the USA. The largest Genocide ever conducted on this planet was perpetrated on black Africa to the tune of at least 14 million and likely 20 million killed on the death marches where 95-99 percent of blacks captured died before sale to other countries. Any black in the USA that approaches Islam should know it as the religion that enslaved every one of their ancestors and switching from the Christian religion of their parents in anger makes no sense.
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html
Abed is the arabic word for slave and its also the arabic word for a black person...that's a bad sign for a black person heading into Islam dont you think.
Read this google link out to read more about it. It's the side of slavery education that our kids are not being taught.
Slavery in Africa and America
Black Muslims push Islam as if their ancestors had not been enslaved for centuries by Arab Muslims. "Abed" means "black" or "slave" in Arabic. ...
www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/comp/cw25slavery.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
Yes, If only this writer would only pen what he thinks Allah meant, the next generation of muslims can truly live in peace...Inshaala (God willing).
"It is not the "culture" out of which these attitudes toward Jews and other non-Muslims comes, but from Islam itself..."
Islam is a culture.
"That is why this book should, and must somehow, be buried."
Of course, it's not so simple. The book itself is not the problem; it's the culture that conceives of that book as the literal and apodictic and direct word of God, perfectly transcending all imperfect mediation. That culture either has to be deconstructed, or destroyed.
I think this bloke has spoken from his heart and he’s given an apology. Does he lie? I don’t care because it still gets that behavioural message out there.
I don’t think the posters at JW are too keen on a ‘Reformation of Islam’ campaign…but it’s much closer to what the mass public would support.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s recent book, ‘The Caged Virgin’ calls for a social reformation on how Islamic men treat women, the concept of honour in Islam (and humiliation / disgrace), and a hierarchical-authoritarian mentality of Islamic peoples (which explains why they’re not keen on democracy, and allow such appalling leaders to rule over them).
I’ve heard the arguments for the untrustability of Islam in total, and people seem to end up asking for mass deportations and extermination of active jihadists as a policy. Well it may come to that. But the USA will probably have had to change quiet considerably to reach that point.
I can’t speak for America, but maybe the UK will ‘force’ its Muslims to reform (life imprisonment for honour killings, convictions of families for suppression of intelligence, the use of the treason laws etc), in order to allow co-existence with them. I do not support mass deportations of Muslims from the west. I fear that the government bureaucracy we set up for this will be the very people we never want to give power to.
I do support the deportation / execution of convicted terrorists.
So, 1+ Million Muslims in the US, multi-million in the EU + Oz, if not deportation, then what? Well surely it makes sense to include some drives towards a reformation of Islam? Not least as a tactical move towards an end-game of no Islamic threat.
Mr. Emilo Karim Dabul, thank you for your refreshing commetary. It is time for your own to start accepting responsibility to weeding out the radicals. God Bless you and stay safe.
Just imagine that one day some lady in Saudi Arabia says to herself: "How come I'm walking around swaddled in a tent? Just because I don't want to be in a tent doesn't mean I'm a slut. Why can't I dress like Margaret Thatcher? I think I'll do that and I'll tell folks that freedom is really about the unlimited right to use reason and that it's threatened by any licence that abuses it and a totalitarian attempt to control it. I'll tell folks that the first principle of freedom must be its limitation by logic and reason, that it must be exercised with responsibility. So I'll preach freedom and responsibility like Margaret Thatcher did."
She's toast. I'm sure an Adam Gadhan type will be there to goddamn her and put her in her place.
Some people here have to contain themselves. By speaking out, Ibrahim Hooper indicates an awakening of Muslim Arabs to the truth of this world. However, this does not mean if every single Muslim adopts his stance and remain Muslim, they will no longer constitute a threat to Western societies. No, we must purge Islam of all its followers in the West. Jesus said a house cannot stand divided amongst itself. And nothing can more clearly divide us than Islam.
Sorry not Ibrahim Hooper, but EMILIO KARIM DABUL
And this too. Another brave muslim.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Sep-10-Sun-2006/opinion/9542296.html
I anm afraid you will have to copy and paste the url as I don't know if this board uses BBScode.
Read it all.
Is this guy still alive ?
Or has he written out a fatwa beforehand saying he would involve himself in taqiyya ?
A muslim saying this to us is crap. Has he said it to his own people ?
Can he supply us with a transcript of his speech in a mosque ?
Oh Yeah, the writer Emilio Karim Dabul, the enlightened muslim, lists as his profession "PR consultant".
If the Quran is the very word of Allah, then all muslims are obligated to Allah, to believe in, and act like they believe in, everything Allah says, and his prophet Mohammad as well. This does not leave much wiggle room for muslim apologists to apologise and still remain muslims. Why should any one of them apologise for following directions from Allah?
So what you get is an apology like the one above...luke warm. In order to stay a muslim the apologiser must defend Islam (produces enlightenment) while at the same time chiding those darned pesty extreemists. Allah still has him in his clutches and he is still a submitter. It's not Allah, it's not the Quran, it's those awful extreemists who mis-understand Islam that give all those 'enlightened' muslims a bad name.
Excuse me for being sceptical...I have heard all this before and people are still getting beheaded according to Allahs instructions...
"A Christian who bombs an abortion clinic in the name of God is still a Christian, at least in his interpretation"
No way.
Not only he's not a christian by any standard, but no church cleric would condone this behaviour.
Muslims' venting would be more effective without misinterpreting other religions. Of which they don't know jack shit.
about the link of the other "moderate muslim".
Here's 2 sentences.
"When you talk of killing of Americans, you first have to kill 6 million or so Muslims who will stand for every American's right to live and enjoy the life as commanded by God. "
this guy is stating that among the 6 million muslims in america ALL of them are modern, moderate, secular and all? I don't think so
As a matter of fact at the end he says
"We will condemn you once again the same way we have been doing ever since 9/11 because we are Muslim Americans."
Muslim americans with Muslim before american.
You hear of American christians, American jews, but Muslim americans...
Not only he's not a christian by any standard, but no church cleric would condone this behaviour.
FedUp, I think the distinction we need to make is that the person committing the acts may be a Christian, but he is not following any mainline/orthodox Christian teaching. The problem with Islam is that the jihadists are actually following the Koran. The only way to convince them otherwise is to make them apostates or have them follow some minor Islamic sect that tosses out virtually all historic and authoritative interpretations.
Muslims' venting would be more effective without misinterpreting other religions.
This is the same thing that set my baloney detector off. There seems to be this incessant need to drag other religions into the discussion of Islam. I could understand it if you were comparing views on women between the different religions. But, when discussing spreading a religion by the sword, Islam stands alone. Even looking at the OT doesn't help since none of the calls for violence are open ended. Last I checked the Jews weren't tracking down the Moabites and Amalekites.
The statment is an improvement, but I still get the impression of moral equivalency with other religions in regards to jihad.
Hold on a minute, folks - nowhere is Mr. Dabul identified as a Muslim - he is described merely as an Arab-American. He could be a Middle Eastern Christian, whose grandparents, being dhimmi Christians, internalized the antisemitism of the dominant Muslim population.
Hasn't anyone noticed this - that the man might not even be a Muslim at all?
true but it could be that he wants to parallel himself with african american, italo-american, putting his ethicity and not his religion.
Just because he mentioned the abortion clinic matter shows he is muslim, if he was a christian or jew he wouldn't have bothered to write this parallel.
duh_swami posts: Enlightenment? Where are the 'enlightened' muslims?
What is an enlightened muslim? The only 'enlightened' muslims are apostates.
I was ready to believe this was the beginning of the too-long awaited appropriate Muslim response to Jihad terror but after reading duh_swami's posts, my fire has been doused (rightly so) by cold water.
duh_swami,
Agree with you. No "extremists". Only muslims following the koran.
FIRST OF ALL, THERE IS NO SUCH ANIMAL AS AN ISLAMOPHOBE.
The dictionary defines a phobia as a persistent, irrational fear.
There is nothing irrational about fearing what Islam can accomplish in the terrorist mode.
As the Koran says time after time to Kill, Kill, Kill, there is nothing irrational of being supremely wary about all things Islamic.
Again, the enemy attempts to define the parameters with which the war of words is being waged. The MSM are always willing to aid and abet anything Muslim by letting them set the rules of discourse.
As my understanding of Islam grows (thank you JW!), I move out of the denial-shock and horror-pain-anger and rage phases into the sphere of realisation. I can now distance myself from what amounts to the behaviours I expect of the Zarquawis and OBL's of the Muslim world. I also accept that their numbers are growing, perhaps dramatically. Certainly, they seem to be outstripping the numbers of "moderate Moslems" who preach on Fridays etc.
The further back I stand, the more I can see the forest as well as the trees. And from where I stand, I see predominately petulant, beligerent wannabe-just-like-Saddam's. True, he is Ba'ath and fascisto, but he proved to be no better than other fascistos. After all, we don't normally think of mass murderers as being gradeable, from being just norty to being evil. I guess the point I am trying to make here is that I can feel the horror of someone else's suffering, without owning the pain etc that victims must endure. I can also feel in some tiny way responsible, perhaps because the evil one shares with me the title of human being. But this doesn't make me feel guilty, just heartsick, and angry.
If I do not discipline my child, s/he will not experience the reality of consequences. As an adult, being just norty can prove expensive. Imagine if that child goes on to being full blown evil! If moderate Moslems do not start acting out against the tyrants of Islam, and very soon, then the transition from norty to Saddam will be swift indeed. What, then, the consequences! Either Islam begins to show signs of maturation or... I shudder to think.
So, MM's (especially in the US). Will you start to follow the example of one Arab's apology and become responsible adults? Or do you need to have the potential consequences of your continuing silence spelled out for you? Adults must choose...