Pope: "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address"

I'm glad the Pope didn't apologize. Now if he will only do what he says, begin a dialogue in truth and love about the failed Islam, maybe we can get somewhere. He'd better be tough.

I understand he did not like Pope Paul's weakness on this subject.

Analysis: The Pope Takes on the Prophet.

Let's face it, the Pope has to consider all the Christians who are effectively held hostage in Muslim lands in this situation. Despite this constraint and the apologies it requires, I think he's made his point, and am very grateful for his clarity and moral courage.
It's tough calling for dialogue with thugs.

I am happy that Pope B16 is standing up for what is truly right. But this response is not suprising because he has to take into consideration the harsh reality that there are still Christians in Muslim lands who have to deal everyday with a knife at their throats.

The Killngs, burning of churches have begun in earnest. What will the Christian reaction be? these Koranimals need to be challenged, are we to
continue to allow them to shape the 21st Century,
the future must be ours if humanity is to progress. Islam has brought the world nothing but
death and submission.

I am dismayed at the BBC's reporting.

The Pope said: "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims."

It is clear that this in no way constitutes an apology for his own thoughts or words, but despite that the BBC has just reported that "Pope Benedict XVI has apologised in person for causing offence to Muslims."

Is it that reporters simply have no critical insight these days, no textual criticism skills? Or is there actually a sinister agenda at work within the BBC?

Whichever, we need to challenge the idea that he has caved.

bravo...the Pope has done it,an apology without an apology..Will the muslums stop killing jews and christian and hindus and athiest now?I dont think so.

I realize he is put in a terrible spot and that peoples' lives (besides his own) are at risk depending on what he says. And of course the 'being offended' is just an excuse for violence, regardless of how many apologies are issued or how they are worded.

But I was still dismayed to read this.

Is there no one who will stand up to these murderers, these bullies who think they can intimidate the entire world? Is there no one?

The classic; I'm sorry you're upset (honey).

At the risk of giving the Pope too much credit, he has introduced and managed this debate masterfully.

The classic; I'm sorry you're upset (honey).

At the risk of giving the Pope too much credit, he has introduced and managed this debate masterfully.

All this talk of dialogue between cultures is utter nonsense. These kinds of dialogues have been held many times in India and here is how they went

Hindu/Sikh/Buddhist side: We believe all faiths lead to the same God.

Islamic side: We believe only in Islam. You have a choice: Convert to Islam or be ready to be beheaded

This is not a cooked up example; this is precisely what happened to Guru Tegh Bahadur, the ninth guru of the Sikhs

The hell with apologizing. When are the idiots who run the ummah going to apologize?

Prophet Geoff

The hell with apologizing. When are the idiots who run the ummah going to apologize?

Prophet Geoff

The Islamists will not accept anything except the total dhimminization of the Pope, and he can't do that, especially not in light of the activities that these idiots have been engaging in the past two days. They need to be dealt with like a schoolyard bully, with a very forceful, squarely place punch and a broken nose.

The murder of innocent non-Muslims is a pastime for them. The Pope cannot back down just because somebody might get murdered. If he backs down he's setting us all up to get murdered.

Now WHAT are we going to do to back HIM up and protect HIM?

When the pope made this speach I posted on here that the Pope would apologise for upsetting the Muslims but not for what he said. My words have been proved correct. I also saw the popes words as a trap that due to the nature of Islam they would prove the his words were correct and events did.

What has it done, well people on the left and those secular anti-Christians are now struggling with the concept of Christianity is as bad as Islam that they have been sprouting forth for years, in one speach he showed what complete and utter bollocks that comment is.

He has given the West the difference between what we are and what they (Muslims) are, logic, something that the non-believing left and Christians can all define as being the West.

When I read the speach I almost fell over with shock, this man is the Winston Churchill of the whole West, if we work on this message we have a concept or a idea or even an ideology that all free minded and democratic people can agree on as being why Islam is not acceptable.

Spread it guys...

Apology? Since when do they accept just an apology for any offence, real of perceived?
This is all bologna. It would just lead to other demands if the Pope caved. I said it before… the Pope is not going to apologize. That’s why they are making his regret for their actions, not his words appear to be an apology.

Mo writes: "Is there no one who will stand up to these murderers, these bullies who think they can intimidate the entire world? Is there no one?"

What has to happen, is that if a Western leader wants to speak out against radical Islam, then he has to get out in front of the inevitable violence and actually predict it ahead of time, and warn that it will happen, saying something like this:

"Now I'm sure that there are extremists out there who won't like my remarks. And after the Mohammed cartoon incident and the Pope Benedict incident, we have seen enough of the pattern to know what is likely to happen now: First, I predict that Muslim clerical leaders will denounce my remarks. Then, when Muslims go to mosques to pray for Friday prayers, they're going to be hopped up by the radical imams preaching violence. Then, starting Friday night and continuing the next few days, they're going to pour out into the streets, rioting, burning, and killing. Don't say I didn't warn you. But you didn't need any warning. By now the actions of our adversaries are totally predictable. Those who are in dangerous areas need to prepare for the inevitable outcome."

If it was only a "few passages" they were upset about they didn't read it fully or very carefully. His entire address refuted the Islamic perception of God.

“These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought."

I love the quote, but Mohammed was not the first to spread his faith by the sword. I am less sure he was not the first to produce an enduring command from "God" to do so for all subsequent generations. I am also not sure that he was the first to sacralize pedophilia and polygamy. And he was probably not the first to produce such an internally contradictory document requiring massive abrogation.

"Show me what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman."

Some of the things he "brought" that were new were not "evil and inhuman", such as which leg to stand on when you pee, and which way a toilet should face.

But he did a lot of things "evil and inhuman", making him untrustworthy not to be so.

Therefore, my personal opinion would be closer to "Mohammad was evil and inhuman".

I am also sorry the Islamofascists are so infantile, reactionary, thin-skinned and volatile that they became violent so easily.

So I agree with the Pope.

Translation:

“I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims,” he told pilgrims at his Castelgandolfo summer residence. "

-Please stop murdering nuns and burning churches down.
A. Kinda proves the Popes point does it not?

“These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought."

-Please stop murdering nuns and burning churches down.
B. Kinda proves the Popes point does it not?

“I hope this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue, with mutual respect,” he said."

-Please stop murdering nuns and buring churches down. The nature of your behavior proves I was right, but I have to recant or you'll continue murdering people and buring churches down.

C. Kinda proves the Popes point does it not?

This is right on.

Kinda like saying some guy's wife is butt ugly to her face. When her husband confronts you, you say that you are sorry that she is so upset over your comment, but it is a fact that she should accept since she is historically ugly.

Like I said, and to borrow a phrase from The Path to 9-11, who knew that the Pope had "balls of steel"?

ethoman,

You made me laugh.

Still, the Pope did not "recant" his comments. To do so he would have to affirm that

1) God is capricious
2) God's will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality
3) God is not bound even by his own word
4) God is not even bound to truth and goodness
5) God is not obliged to reveal the truth to us
6) God could have done the opposite of everything He has actually done
7) God could have willed us to practice idolatry
8) God is so transcendent and "other" that our reason and conscience do not "mirror" Him; i.e. we are not made in His image.
9) God is personally unknowable
10) God's actions cannot be understood by man (in terms of consequence of immutable qualities)

Thus, to recant (which is what the militant Muslims expect as an apology) he would have to publically profess acceptance of the Islamic perspective of God (crudely diagramed above by paraphrasing from the Pontiff's speech).

I'm not a Catholic, but trust me. Hell will freeze over first.

Here is another quote from Pope Benedict, where he quotes a series of others...

"Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God's will, we would even have to practise idolatry."

...and they are, in their obsession with Mohammad. As they say in Pakistan, say what you want about Allah, but be careful with Mohammad.

You guys seem to have glossed over this part of the Pope's apology:

"“These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought."

You guys seem to have glossed over this part of the Pope's apology:

"“These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought."

Translation. I'll say it again.

Please stop murdering nuns and buring churches down. The nature of your behavior proves I was right, but I have to recant or you'll continue murdering people and buring churches down.

I think the Pope is an educated guy both literally and historically. I think the speech was written knowing full well what would happen. He knows the civilized world must be woken up to the threat it faces. By traveling to Turkey and making these remarks he is, in my opinion, going martyr himself. Why else would an educated man make these remarks then head to Turkey. Think broader contex here EU open bordrers. I doubt dialogue with Muslims was his intent.

I didn't gloss over it, I tried to address it in #270836 above.

Concerned Citizen, your interpretation does not do justice to the Pope's "in any way". The phrase "do not...in any way" means just that: "in no way" -- including your way.

THE POPE DID NOT HAVE TO EVEN CLARIFY, IT WAS SELF EVIDENT FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN UNDERSTAND ENGLISH. SAD DAY IN THE HISTORY OF CATHOLICISM AND OTHER PEACEFUL RELIGIONS AROUND THE WORLD

"which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims"

"Sensibilities" of Muslims, thats funny !

Concerned Citizen:

"Thus, to recant (which is what the militant Muslims expect as an apology) he would have to publically profess acceptance of the Islamic perspective of God (crudely diagramed above by paraphrasing from the Pontiff's speech).

I'm not a Catholic, but trust me. Hell will freeze over first."

-Where have you been? Hell froze over back during Vatican II.

The phrase "do not in any way express my personal thought" was, I hope, no less carefully selected than others in the Pope's statement. The phrase tells us nothing about his personal thoughts, which may in fact be either more or less appreciative of Islam than the erudite emporer!

As for the phrase "I hope that this serves to appease hearts", I have seen it suggested that this in itself it appeasement, in the worst Chamberlainesque sense of the word. I think not; my hunch is that the word "appease" was again selected quite deliberately, as it highlights the horrendous reality of the fact that to save Catholics worldwide from violent recriminations, some degree of appeasement (i.e. subservience, dhimmitude) is expected by Muslims.

I am cautiously positive. This feels stage-managed by the Pope. It is interesting to note that he intends to comment further; a note at the foot of the text of his original address on the Vatican's website reads: "The Holy Father intends to supply a subsequent version of this text, complete with footnotes. The present text must therefore be considered provisional."

Erratum: "this in itself is appeasement"

Null:

"Or is there actually a sinister agenda at work within the BBC?"

Are you serious? Where have you been for the past decade or so? The BBC has become the Islamic interests standard bearer in Western media, together with most major media outlets.

I have tremendous respect for the courage, in every respect, of Pope Benedict. I didn't realize his scholarly background. He seems quite the academic.

My one gripe is his age. His brother(also a Catholic Priest)joked that he hoped his brother would not be elected! to Pope, saying something to the effect, He's an old man). Another vatican watcher said that he(Pope B)enjoyed lots of rich pastas with wine(sounds good to me). I pray for his health. No need to pay for his mind; he's got more brains than most . . . far more.

Although I'm Jewish, if Pope B calls for another crusade, sign me up as a honarary zionist crusader.

Robert

The Pope may have had another purpose in focusing attention on the Byzantine Empire, a highly cultured, Christian- Roman civilization that pre-existed in the areas conquered by the Islamic Empires that replaced it. Not for Byzantine’s record for religious toleration, but rather by the consideration that historic evidence found from its very existence and final bloody ending, contradicts several modern Islamic claims. For example, that Islam has a legal and historical claim to enforce its religious control over certain regions.

The Byzantine emperor expressed fear and abhorrence of Islamic violence for valid historical reasons. His civilization was under brutal assault by the Islamic armies.

Islamic leaders have a tradition of ignoring the prior claims of other religions and civilizations that pre-existed Islamic dominance. Part of the Imams' anger may have also been provoked by their consternation that Byzantine's historical message has been brought to world attention.

Islam Attempts to Silence an Historic Warning
http://loathlylady.blogspot.com/2006/09/imams-attempt-to-silence-historical.html

Ragnell you are right the demise of byzantium flys in the face of poplular culture depiction of Islam being peacefull or provoked. Also the history of byzantium sheds light on the truth about the crusades. It wasn't a fanatical war in the heart of islam. It was a war of defense on the edge of the christian world. Both muslims and dhimmis conveniently wish byzantium never existed.

ovidius_naso: New visitors find this website daily. Many are still blind to the reality of Islam, and that in no small part due to the wilful bias and/or ignorance on display at the BBC and elsewhere. I sometimes wonder if such visitors must find rather impenetrable or off-putting our use of words such as da'wa, takfir or taqiyya, and our in-jokish references to the RoP or New Duranty Times. So if I pose a rhetorical question the answer to which seems obvious to you, I am doing so in the interests of readers who might benefit, and not in the expectation that it will be slighted by those who won't.

Frankly, this whole incident illustrates the refusal of the west to engage Islam ideologically. Intellectually, that religion is a house of cards, but no one in the west is willing to blow, instead they tiptoe around it and prop it up. Militarily, it is a tough customer. If the west continues to refuse to engage ideologically, they will end up in a bloody military confrontation instead.

1. Muhammad - clearly, murder, rape, theft is immoral - Muhammad engaged in all of them, it is hardly reasonable that the Creator would be pleased with such acts since these are all essentially acts of destruction

2. Quran. Common, if Quran existed eternally in heaven as "is", how do you explain that earlier suras contradict later suras? Shouldn't Allah's law be eternal, not relative and chronologically dependent, and coherent, that is not contradicting itself? If you took the Quran, applied modern hermeneutics, the variety of styles, its' contradictions, its' jumbled versions of Judaic and Christian beliefs, the suras the meaning of which is completely obscure, its' lack of any organizational structure indicate that it originates in a variety of post-Muhammad sources among his followers, likely few suras actually are Muhammad's. Modern hermeneutics applied to the Christian Bible, even after full "demythification", still conclude that the Old Testament is the product of a Jewish comunity and the New Testament of a "heretical" segment of that community - Jesus was really a Jewish "rabbi", Paul was a pharisee, and so forth, so there is a real historical tie to Moses. However, the completely bizarre and jumbled accounts of Old Testament events in the Quran, (on which both the Jewish and Christian canons agree), indicate that Muhammad and his followers were completely outside both traditions. Further, concepts such as holy war (unknown in 9th century christianity and judaism), polygamy and concubinage (again, not practiced by 9th century Christians or Jews, or probably as far as concubinage I should rather say believed to be illegitimate by religious authorities of those traditions), indicate that Islam is really Arab raider tribal culture dressed up in misappropriated Judeo-Christian concepts that neither Muhammad nor his followers understood. Further, even if you don't believe in the parting of the Red Sea, or the Resurrection, the moral code at the heart of Judeo-christianity is rationally defensible, that of Islam is not. Aside from forced conversions, what about the absurdity of polygamy? Seems like allah is messing up again, since he makes men and women at a ratio of 1 to 1, not 1 to 4. Any society practicing polygamy is bound to have major social tensions from this, but hey, they can always send the excess males on suicide bombing missions and then they get 72!

Benedict is clearly showing the way forward here - during the course of a rational ecunemical dialogue, many muslims would come to the conclusion that they can't rationally justify many of their beliefs - which is why they won't take part, and threaten to cut off the head of anyone like Benedict who asks them to "think" about why they believe what they believe. But that shouldn't stop the west from subjecting Islam to intellectual scrutiny and demand that Islam rationally justify its' beliefs, since Islam IS demanding the west accepts its' beliefs.

At the risk of giving the Pope too much credit, he has introduced and managed this debate masterfully.

With a compliment like that who needs criticism.... You give yourself too much credit for the attempt at a "clever" yet backhanded compliment....

Pope = Hitler, another example of muslim overkill

http://www.catholicleague.com/06press_releases/quarter%203/060915_overkill.htm

Muslims unhappy
http://www.catholicleague.com/06press_releases/quarter%203/060914_muslims_unhappy.htm

It is unfortunate that the Pope apologized for telling the truth. It is only bowing to the fear and pressure and is playing in to the hands of the Jihadis and encourages them. I feel he may have done it only to save Catholic lives, however this accomplishes the Jihadi goals.

The one good thing is that everytime the Muslims are publically offended someone in the world sees their true colors.

Never thought I would say this about a Pope, but he has absolutely nothing to apologize for. He told it like it is, and in the Muslim community, the truth hurts.

How can any group say they are peaceful, then turn around and produce terrorists, go after the Pope and want to wipe out the Western world. As someone earlier said, it has to be mental illness. Maybe too many weddings stemming from family picnics?

Quote: "Benedict is clearly showing the way forward here - during the course of a rational ecunemical dialogue, many muslims would come to the conclusion that they can't rationally justify many of their beliefs - which is why they won't take part, and threaten to cut off the head of anyone like Benedict who asks them to "think" about why they believe what they believe. But that shouldn't stop the west from subjecting Islam to intellectual scrutiny and demand that Islam rationally justify its' beliefs, since Islam IS demanding the west accepts its' beliefs." --godfreyofbouillon

This is right on, a very strong point. Islam must rationally justify itself, if we in the West are to accept its beliefs. This point cannot be stressed enough, and it should be the centerpiece for all future dialogue between Western cultures and beliefs, and Eastern cultures and beliefs. Pope Benedict XVI opened a tiny crack in a very large door, to see into their world with rational reason, but also for force them to see our world not with blind beliefs but with rational reason. Reason must win. For this opening between two diverse worlds, His Holiness Pope Benedict has no reason to apologize.

Ragnell, excellent Blog. I also find it particularly irksome that the indigenous Christians of Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, etc. have Arabized themselves. In fact, these regions of the Moslem world, were entirely Christian until the Pedophile Prophet Patrol came in and stole and slaughtered and subjugated.
I have many friends among the Syrian and Lebanese Catholics and Orthodox, and they almost always side with the Moslems (at least against the Jews). In my humble estimation, they have embraced more than merely the language of Islam, but have embraced many of its cultural aspects, such as demeaning women, tolerating adultery (wink-wink), and taqqiya.
I would rather that they embraced their Syriac and Byzantine heritage, their glorious Christian tradition instead of throwing parties with belly-dancers to entertain. Yeeeech!

More on-topic:
Pope Benedict is brilliant. He knows exactly what he is doing. He is a gentleman and a scholar, and he is nobody's fool.

Yes, I'm sorry muslims around the world respond with violence, destruction and so on. I'm sorry that they have to do these things when someone quotes a 14th century person.

I'm glad that the Pope has set these guys up and snared those feral creatures like he had planned. Thanks for meeting with Oriana Fallaci and listening to her, as did the Pope long ago who listened to another Tuscan, Saint Catherine of Siena, and moved the papacy back to its home. This Pope has listened and is moving the papacy back to home too.

Thanks for having the strength to give them the rope they need, holy father. They will surely hang themselves. Keep it up and God Bless. Do it enough and you'll start a movement among leaders of the free world. Be the trendsetter. What is old is new again. Jihad Jihad Jihad! What a trip. The absurdity would be more fun if real people weren't in real danger around the world. This is why France is reserved on the subject as well. They've made a horrible bed partner in the Muslims. Kind of like laying with a terribly ugly woman from the pub. The French have two alternatives - wake it up and push it off.. and incur the wrath and trouble or chew their arm off to get out of bed.

Islam is coyote ugly.

Thanks for showing the world that, Holy Father, in a mature and rational way. Peace be upon you, Benedict XVI

Memo to the Pope: Appeasing Islam has never been an option. I dare say it never will be. They won't listen to non-Muslims and their wussy apologies.

Basically, the reality is when Muslims approach, one just runs for cover.

Null: Thank you for the link to the text of the Pope's speech. I am awestruck by his intellect AND his courage. He is challenging islam to an intellectual and cultural contest based on the use of REASON. Of course, islam cannot make a good showing in such a "debate" without resorting to violence, which it always does.

I have printed out his speech, and am going to review it with my family. This is an important philosophical, and ultimately political, statement.

And the war goes on.