Denial and dissimulation from the Saudis, broadcast with dismal credulity from AFP:
RIYADH (AFP) - The September 11 attacks in which 15 of the 19 suicide hijackers came from Saudi Arabia triggered a torrent of US accusations that the Muslim kingdom's education system was fostering Islamic extremism.
Five years on the debate continues. Saudi educators argue that the problem lies in misinterpretation of religious texts or their "exploitation" to justify intolerance.
One dares not blame the Qur'an itself, or the ahadith and Sunna, of course:
"The problem is not with the texts of religious curricula, which are largely based on the Koran and the Sunna (Prophet Mohammed's doings and sayings)," said Hamad al-Majed, an education professor at Imam Mohammed bin Saud University.
But some religious texts are interpreted by extremists to back up their thinking, while other texts fuel extremism when taken out of context, said Majed, who has taken part in dialogues with Americans on religious freedom.
Speaking of taking things out of context, and relying unquestioningly on someone else's interpretation:
One example is a verse urging Muslim faithful to "fight the infidels around you, and be tough with them."
Chapter and verse would be nice, but did it occur to the author to ask? Has the author ever picked up a Qur'an?
The quote comes from this Qur'anic passage:
O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him). (Qur'an 9:123)
Here's the nice professor to explain it away:
The verse referred to a situation in which the prophet was under attack by enemies and amounted to a call for self-defense, not to go on the offensive, the professor told AFP.
Feel better? No? Good.
Saudi officials, who started reviewing schoolbooks even before the 2001 attacks in the United States, should "look at this matter without sensitivity and remove whatever could be misinterpreted" from curricula, he said.
A red herring, unless they're prepared to call literal interpretation a "misinterpretation."
Changes have been introduced and continue to be made. Even "the dose of religious studies" fed to students is a subject of debate, he added.
Khaled al-Awwad, a member of the appointed Shura (consultative) Council and former education ministry undersecretary, said that since September 11, curricula have been reviewed by specialized committees which dropped some of the material that could be misunderstood or "exploited" to promote extremism.
Saudi curricula in general do not encourage intolerance of other faiths or extremism, he insisted.
But as always, the real catalyst for violence is never from within the Muslim camp:
Other factors are more liable to fuel extremism, such as "the injustice inflicted on some Muslim peoples" and US support for Israel, which creates hatred toward the United States, Awwad argued.
According to Aziza al-Mana, a US-educated professor of education at King Saud University, "the flaw can be traced to the insertion of personal views of the authors in religious schoolbooks."
"After a verse (from the Koran holy book) or a text from the Hadeeth (words of the prophet), the author adds his personal, fanatical views," she said.
Mana, who sits on a committee preparing the sixth round of a "national dialogue" on developing the Saudi education system, said it needed to be revamped to introduce more relevant sciences, change teaching methods and foster independent thinking.
Good luck with that.
"If we can create a student who thinks freely, he will not be unduly influenced by personal opinions featuring in some books ... Our students now don't have a critical mind," Mana said.
Makes one so look forward to the 15,000 Saudis to be enrolled in US colleges and universities, doesn't it?
After watching on Discovery Channel tonight on what happened on September 11, 2001 in the two doomed WTC Towers, after reading this and seeing the faces of the people who had died as well as the faces of those who survived, and seeing this article makes me realized that the Saudis are not really our friends. Ralph Peters should have seen what I have seen and realized there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.
Defensive? Doesn't sound defensive to me. Apparently refusing to pay zakat is an "attack" on the religion that requires a military response.
Ibn Kathir, Tafsir of verse 9:123 http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=22240
"The Order for Jihad against the Disbelievers, the Closest, then the Farthest Areas
Allah commands the believers to fight the disbelievers, the closest in area to the Islamic state, then the farthest. This is why the Messenger of Allah started fighting the idolators in the Arabian Peninsula. When he finished with them and Allah gave him control over Makkah, Al-Madinah, At-Ta'if, Yemen, Yamamah, Hajr, Khaybar, Hadramawt and other Arab provinces, and the various Arab tribes entered Islam in large crowds, he then started fighting the People of the Scriptures. He began preparations to fight the Romans who were the closest in area to the Arabian Peninsula, and as such, had the most right to be called to Islam, especially since they were from the People of the Scriptures. The Prophet marched until he reached Tabuk and went back because of the extreme hardship, little rain and little supplies. This battle occurred on the ninth year after his Hijrah. In the tenth year, the Messenger of Allah was busy with the Farewell Hajj. The Messenger died eighty-one days after he returned from that Hajj, Allah chose him for what He had prepared for him [in Paradise]. After his death, his executor, friend, and Khalifah, Abu Bakr As-Siddiq, may Allah be pleased with him, became the leader. At that time, the religion came under attack and would have been defeated, if it had not been for the fact that Allah gave the religion firmness through Abu Bakr, who established its basis and made its foundations firm. He brought those who strayed from the religion back to it, and made those who reverted from Islam return. He took the Zakah from the evil people who did not want to pay it, and explained the truth to those who were unaware of it. On behalf of the Prophet , Abu Bakr delivered what he was entrusted with. Then, he started preparing the Islamic armies to fight the Roman cross worshippers, and the Persian fire worshippers. By the blessing of his mission, Allah opened the lands for him and brought down Caesar and Kisra and those who obeyed them among the servants. Abu Bakr spent their treasures in the cause of Allah, just as the Messenger of Allah had foretold would happen. This mission continued after Abu Bakr at the hands of he whom Abu Bakr chose to be his successor, Al-Faruq, the Martyr of the Mihrab, Abu Hafs, `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him. With `Umar, Allah humiliated the disbelievers, suppressed the tyrants and hypocrites, and opened the eastern and western parts of the world. The treasures of various countries were brought to `Umar from near and far provinces, and he divided them according to the legitimate and accepted method. `Umar then died as a martyr after he lived a praise worthy life. Then, the Companions among the Muhajirin and Ansar agreed to chose after `Umar, `Uthman bin `Affan, Leader of the faithful and Martyr of the House, may Allah be pleased with him. During `Uthman's reign, Islam wore its widest garment and Allah's unequivocal proof was established in various parts of the world over the necks of the servants. Islam appeared in the eastern and western parts of the world and Allah's Word was elevated and His religion apparent. The pure religion reached its deepest aims against Allah's enemies, and whenever Muslims overcame an Ummah, they moved to the next one, and then the next one, crushing the tyranical evil doers. They did this in reverence to Allah's statement,
(O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you,) Allah said next,
(and let them find harshness in you), meaning, let the disbelievers find harshness in you against them in battle. The complete believer is he who is kind to his believing brother, and harsh with his disbelieving enemy. Allah said in other Ayah,
(Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers...)[5:54],
(Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those who are with him are severe against the disbelievers, and merciful among themselves.)[48:29], and,
(O Prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them.)[9:73] Allah said,
(And know that Allah is with those who have Taqwa), meaning, fight the disbelievers and trust in Allah knowing that Allah is with you if you fear and obey Him. This was the case in the first three blessed generations of Islam, the best members of this Ummah. Since they were firm on the religion and reached an unsurpassed level of obedience to Allah, they consistently prevailed over their enemies. During that era, victories were abundant, and enemies were ever more in a state of utter loss and degradation. However, after the turmoil began, desires and divisions became prevalent between various Muslim kings, the enemies were eager to attack the outposts of Islam and marched into its territory without much opposition. Then, the Muslim kings were too busy with their enmity for each other. The disbelievers then marched to the capital cities of the Islamic states, after gaining control over many of its areas, in addition to entire Islamic lands. Verily, ownership of all affairs is with Allah in the beginning and in the end. Whenever a just Muslim king stood up and obeyed Allah's orders, all the while trusting in Allah, Allah helped him regain control over some Muslim lands and took back from the enemy what was compatible to his obedience and support to Allah. We ask Allah to help the Muslims gain control over the forelocks of His disbeliever enemies and to raise high the word of Muslims over all lands. Verily, Allah is Most Generous, Most Giving."
Ibn Abbas (9:123) (O ye who believe!) in Muhammad (pbuh) and in the Qur’an (Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you) the Banu Qurayzah, Banu’l-Nadir, Fadak and Khaybar, (and let them find harshness in you) toughness from you, (and know) O believers (that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)) Allah helps the believers: Muhammad (pbuh) and his Companions, by making them victorious over their enemies.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 388:
Narrated Abu Huraira: When Allah's Apostle died and Abu Bakr was elected as a Caliph after him, some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, 'Umar said to Abu Bakr, "How dare you fight the people while Allah's Apostle said, I have been ordered to fight the people till they say 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah' And whoever says: None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' waves his wealth and his life from me unless he deserves a legal punishment lusty, and his account will be with Allah! Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, I will fight him who discriminates between Zakat and prayers, for Zakat is the Compulsory right to be taken from the wealth By Allah, if they refuse to give me even a tying rope which they use to give to Allah's Apostle, I would fight them for withholding it." 'Umar said, 'By Allah, It was nothing, except I saw that Allah had opened the chest of Abu Bakr to the fight, and I came to know for certain that was the truth."
bigcatgirl13106 writes:
"...there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. "
You've got it. And while legally I'm wrong, I
don't think there's such a thing as an American
Muslim either. Or a British Muslim, or a Dutch
Muslim...
According to Aziza al-Mana, a US-educated professor of education at King Saud University, "the flaw can be traced to the insertion of personal views of the authors in religious schoolbooks."
"After a verse (from the Koran holy book) or a text from the Hadeeth (words of the prophet), the author adds his personal, fanatical views," she said.
.............
Here in the US, textbooks are endlessly vetted before a new edition is issued for use in the schools. Teacher's unions, school boards, focus groups of all sorts get into the act. (Of course, this doesn't mean they are all good--there's a lot of PC junk and the inevitable tedious, bureaucratic tone of the books after being written by committee).
I know that the situation is similar in Canada, Australia, and most European countries.
If this is the case in largely free countries, how then are we to believe that centrally issued textbooks in autocratic Saudi Arabia are full of the author's "personal, fanatical views"? Of course this stuff is officially OK'd.
The Saudis know that they can endlessly stonewall on this issue. Every so often, a few small articles will appear in the West on the subject. There will be a (numerically) small amount of outrage, then most people just forget or move on to something else.
How much money does it cost to take out a quarter page add in USA Today? Are there civic and/or religious groups that have the ability and will to take out informative newspaper ads? I'd bet that they'd get financial help if it was asked for.
In Lewiston Maine, Islam purchases local newspaper space to tell residents about the faith (shockingly, the ad I saw called for violent suppression of other faiths by the ‘Sword of Islam’, not a good way to make new friends).
It would be nice if the majority of commuters and office-goers who are focused on family obligations had the opportunity to get a glimpse of what is going on within Islamic ‘education’.
Sure. And they meant teh verses about cutting off their heads, hands and feet and striking terror in your enemies in a gentle, peaceful way. It all reminds me of the movie "Mars Attacks" where the Martians are running around killing people and at the same time using translators to say "Do not run, do not be afraid. We are your friends. We come in peace." Islam is the "religion of peace". Bet they got their translators from the Martians.
"Saudi curricula in general do not encourage intolerance of other faiths or extremism"...
but the government does. No visitor can bring a Holy Bible into the country. No preaching of any faith but Islam. The Saudis are not our friends, we are Jews and Christians. We all know the Sura.
When the Saudis are through reviewing their schoolbooks, perhaps we should examine the ones being designed for use in American Islamic Schools.
The Islamic Schools' League of America has a lofty goal for the young of this country. Probably getting help from the Department of Education, too.
Quoting from the main page:
"The Islamic Schools' League of America envisions and works towards the day when Islamic schools will be the preferred centers for learning and leadership that nurture and encourage America's youth to develop their innate creativity and inquisitive nature in the pursuance of academic excellence while anchoring their hearts and souls in a moral framework of a God-centered life."
Quoting from the curriculum page:
"The second approach [for curriculum writers] is to attempt to rewrite the curriculum of every subject so that Islamic knowledge/thinking is integrated into every subject."
The "Entire Curriculum Approach":
"Proponents of this approach argue that Islamic studies should be an integral part of every subject, not related to just one Islamic studies class. Instead of studying the seerah of the Prophet in the religion class, for example, this approach would have it taught as an integral part of the history class. And the history class would not focus on American/Canadian history as it does in the secular books, but would focus on world history with an emphasis on the history of Muslims."
Are they going to write sharia into the U.S. Constitution, or perhaps put mohammedans on the Mayflower? Maybe the Founding Fathers consulted the quran while writing the Declaration of Independence. . .
I don't think the Saudis are our friends. Does anyone think they are our friends? Islamist nations are ruled by the people. Islamists complain about how corrupt their nation's rulers are... and the Left says that the Saudi ruler's are the cause of the effective totalitarianism there... but, of course, it is the people.
The rulers there are as liberal as they get. The problem is with the people.
Iran is different in this way. As was Iraq, to a degree. (However, as secular and civilized as Iranians, Iraqis, or Turkish may be... theirs is still a civilization founded on the vastly inferior principles of Islam.)
Surely, the Left's view of Arabia is as depicted in the entirely fictional movie "Syriana": it is all America's fault... we force them to be Fascist-Islamists because somehow this increases our oil profits. According to that movie, all Americans are also incredibly rude and most Saudis only turn to Islamo-Fascism because they are poor and their jobs were stolen... by evil American corporations.
All of this is how the Left sees Saudi Arabia.
Of course, like the movie, it is all fiction which claims to be fact.
[Syriana is supposedly based on a CIA memoir called "See No Evil" - even that author gave his stamp of approval - however if you read it you will find not a single shred of similiarity between the movie and the film. The screenwriter made it all up. The actual book had useful stuff in it like that Iran was behind the Lebanese marine barracks and embassy bombings -- posing as terrorists. Important facts the people should know about... just more importact facts laid to the wayside by the Left's whitewashing, prettying up, of the Islamist PIG.]
"Saudi curricula in general do not encourage intolerance of other faiths or extremism, he insisted"
Oh yeah ! My friend's elder sister was foolish enough to take up a job in a saudi hospital some years back. She was told not to take any photos of Hindu gods over there. When she landed in arabia, she was made to surrender her gold Om bracelet, because signs of any other religion other than islam are forbidden in arabia. She managed to pass 6 months over there, after which she broke her contract, and came back. She says the 6 months she spent there were the worst of her life. "Do not encourage intolerance of other faits" indeed.
Arjun,
The Saudis are no friends of those who are not muslims. Right here in our city one guy was formerly working in Saudi Arabia and living in a compound with other Indians in Dammam. The Indians were supposed to be in before sunset, but one day he arrived late, the sun set and he was walking the streets when the Maghreb prayer call began. Two Mutawain religious policement stopped him. They asked him. Why you don't go to mosque. He answered he was not a Muslim, but a Hindu. Then one of the Saudi policemen spat him in the face.
Funny that these same wretches have the nerve to talk about... "the injustice inflicted on some Muslim peoples" and US support for Israel, which creates hatred...
What about THEIR injustices towards Hindus and Christians? When will the hatred the Muslims have so steadily stoked reach boiling point?
When will this hatred hit back and blow up mosques and madrasahs?
A Saudi delegate to a UN trade commission (around 2000) at a drinks party thrown by the American delegates having consumed to much alcohol, which he wasn't used to, freaked out and started shouting and screaming at the Americans "You Americans are really gonna get it, everyone hates the Americans" and turned to the British observers shouting "and you are too!" which was quite upsetting for them. The Saudi delegate was a lawyer for the Saudi government. This implies that either the Saudi had a premonition, or that he had foreknowledge of the 9/11 or a planned offensive, and perhaps even that the Saudi government were involved. This story is from a reliable source!
Root Cause
Yes. Spot on.
Even Muslim leaders over in Europe are saying that there is no such thing as European Muslims.
Only Muslims in Europe.
And still our sixth column wont accept it (the MSM and current batch of politicos).
The books aren't the problem. The friday spew of "Death to America" is the problem.
"If we can create a student who thinks freely, he will not be unduly influenced by personal opinions featuring in some books ... Our students now don't have a critical mind," Mana said
So true. However, a free thinking eventually dismiss most if not all the tenants of Islam. Islamic students do not have a critical mind because they have been brainwashed and have surrendered their individual conscience to indoctrination.
Sorry:
Shoulree thinking student will eventually dismiss all or most of the tenants of Islam.
Free thinking!!! Someone is sabotaging my typing
between posts.
Welcome to The Saudi School of Islamic Enlightenment. Please choose from the following course offerings, the three "R's" you would like to study:
Revisionism
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Islam is professional in Lies and untruths. If deception has a description, it would be Islam. Ask the Saudi Embassy in D.C. With all their wealth and knowledge, why haven't they invested in Palestine?....oh, sorry, just another deception. I promise you, you can't gain entrance into the Saudi Embassy, I found out.