T Thomas wrings his hands in the Business Standard of India over the widespread misunderstanding of Islam: not those committing violence in the name of Islam, mind you, but those who have the audacity to think that Islam may have something to do with inciting violence as a result.
We need to ask, is Islam perhaps a much-misunderstood religion. The 1993 bomb blasts, following the demolition of Babri Masjid, and the more recent July 2006 bomb blasts in Mumbai’s suburban trains have led many people in India to equate aspects of Islam with terrorism. The September 11, 2001, incident in New York turned most of the Western world to that way of thinking. Yet Prophet Mohammed never propagated violence while imparting his teachings. He urged his followers to fast and pray and to give a part of their wealth to charity. Many Muslims carry out these obligations very diligently even today. Muslims revere Jesus Christ as a prophet. According to Islam, Jesus did not die on the Cross and it will be Christ who will return on Judgment Day. In spite of this acknowledgement of Christ in Islam, the Christian West is more anti-Islam than even the Hindus of India, who suffered under Islam for five centuries.
"Prophet Mohammed never propagated violence while imparting his teachings." Except when he did. Get the whole story in my new book, The Truth About Muhammad. A couple of ahadith that T Thomas may have missed:
Narrated Abu Qilaba:Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ."
It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them....If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.
There are many, many others like that. You'll find them in the book.
In spite of this acknowledgement of Christ in Islam, the Christian West is more anti-Islam than even the Hindus of India, who suffered under Islam for five centuries."-
Here is a direct contradiction, if Islam was so misunderstood in a negative manner, then why would have Indian Hindus suffered for five hundred years?
TT is wrong, the Hindus are as anti-Islamic or more than the Christians. I heard if a Hindu girl marries a Muslim, she is outcasted, which is not necessarily the case if a Christian girl marries a Muslim.
Sikhism was born out of Hinduism, because Hindus hated Muslims, and Sikhs are anti-Islam, period.
What's to misunderstand? They, muslims, feel they have the right to separate your head from your body, your clitoris from your body and your girl child from your home. No. islam is not misunderstood. It's a death cult. The sooner our leaders understand that, the sooner we can rid ourselves of the scourge of islam.
Like T Thomas, I can understand his viewpoint. I thought the same way he did, until just the other day, when I got into a debate, here on Jihad Watch...
I surmise that we all hope, deep down in our hearts, that all religions are peaceful. And, it is this inveterated expectation of a peaceful religion that has been used so effectively as a double-edged sword against us...
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
We must thank Zeus that there is no compulsion in religion.
When ever i ask muslims or thier apologists about certain violent or misogynistic texts i am told
every time that they are innacurate translations
which have lead to "misinterpretations".
Muslim cleric Sheikh Taj el-Din al-Hilali`s
statement about Australian women deserving to be raped has apparently also been taken out of
context or misinterpreted.
aladdinsane57 is referring to this:
Addressing 500 worshippers on the topic of adultery, Sheik al-Hilali added: “If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it..whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?
“The uncovered meat is the problem.”
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2006/10/26/veilless-women-uncovered-meat
The problem is not that Islam is misunderstood. The problem is we understand it all too well-possibly better than even its followers. We see the evil that it does all over the world throughout the ages. Muslims do not. They claim we misinterpret the Koran. Really? The English they see is totally different than the English I see? Not likely.
The facts are simple. Islam seeks world domination. Anything or anybody that resists this prime directive is to be destroyed. Only Islam's believers are people-the rest of us are less than trash. Islam is anti-everything: anti-life,anti-rational,anti-compassionate,anti-forgiving,anti-constructive,anti-intellectual,anti-female,anti-etc. It destroys because that's what its god demands of its followers, lest they too be destroyed. Fear keeps Muslims in line-fear of the infidels, fear of new ideas, fear of questions,fear of replacement by their god for displeasing him. Allah sanctions any atrocity if committed for his goal-kill,rape,burn,lie,steal. The Koran preaches constant negatives-do as Allah says or else, infidels are doomed to hell,etc without offering anything positive for its believers (at least nothing that wasn't taken from the Jews and Christians and even that is incidental). What other religion is like Islam?
No, we definitely understand it far too well,T Thomas.
Here's some 'uncovered meat' that is the real problem:
Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
“During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys.
They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.”
Actually it's uncovered trash, not meat. Meat has value.
Saw this post yesterday which concerned the difficulty some posters where having in finding Robert's book and the ease with which Karen Armstrong's whitewashed bio of Mohammad could be found.
Poster said:
"Print out business cards that say "Don't believe the whitewash of Islam.Find the facts at www.jihadwatch.org " then covertly place them in Karen Armstrong new Mohammad book."
Posted by
@RED (October 25, 2006 02:55 PM)
=====================
I figured out, thanks to Red, that I could just as easily (more easily and more anonymously and more effectively) print out BOOK MARKS with my computer and laser printer. They fit nicely inside Quraans and misleading publications like the Karen Armstrong biography.
My handmade book marks have a nicely typeset quote from the Quraan:
"Slay the infidels wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush."
This is followed by:
"Don't believe the whitewash of Islam.Find the facts at
www.jihadwatch.org
www.thereligionofpeace.com
www.faithfreedom.org/
Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
“During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys.
They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.”
Actually it's uncovered trash, not meat. Meat has value.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at October 26, 2006 05:10 PM
If one acts like a monkey, does that sort of make one a monkey? If so, then they made a monkey out of this guy and he too should be stoned like any other ape or pig by Mo's minions,right?
And they say Islam lacks humor.
Well,I don't know,Wait!(misunderstood religion?) could it be public mutilation,beheadings,girls who's genitals are chopped off,mo and his 9 year old wife? one word thereafter; EVOLVE!
From the link above:
"A close associate of the sheik, Keysar Trad, said the speech was about adultery, not rape. “He wasn’t talking about standard norms of dress in Australia or any country, he wasn’t talking about the hijab, he was talking about people who engage in extramarital sex.”
Fact is, sexist and hateful gibberish like this is the stock in trade of Imams all over Dar Al-Islam. In his all-male world of Izlam, this diaper-head, shit-for-brains, ape-faced muzlim cleric would have gotten nothing but kudos and smiling, nodding prayer-capped heads.
Doctor Bulldog said
We also assume that all religions are peaceful. That has always been our experience, whether dealing with different denominations of Christianity, or with Judaism, Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Zoroastrionism, and all other "ism"s so far. Except Islam. Islam is different. I know of no other major religion with such a corrupt founder (thievery, murder, pedophilia, dishonesty), or with such a propensity towards violence.
I said "major", because I'm sure there are cults like the Manson family, or Reverend Jim Jones, or Aum Shinrikyo, and there were the ancient Nordic religions and the South American Incans. So, it's not like Islam is the first or only movement that combines religion and violence. They're just the most dangerous at the moment.
So, with our false assumption that all religions are peaceful, Islam has been misunderstood. But thanks to Robert, Hugh, Marisol, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others, we are learning about the true teachings of Islam.
MusHuntCowboy is right. The "[Hindus] suffered under Islam for five centuries" line does undercut the author's whole point. This author is just like the dhimmis who loudly proclaim that Islam is the Religion of Peace (tm), because they are fearful of what the Muslims will do if they say otherwise. It is a self-defeating argument.
Ynkedoodl2,
Notice how Keysar Trad puts his foot in his mouth when he said, "He wasn't talking about standard norms of dress..."
Just goes to show that He too believes women who dress, "immodestly" are responsible for being raped!!!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
special_guest,
Uhm, well, I wasn't really thinking about Cult religions, but you have a point.
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
quoted above: Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188: Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
“During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys.
They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.”
That was the pre-Islamic period; Arabs evolved, you see, from Arabs to Muslims: from stoning monkeys to stoning human beings.
Looks like another day in Muzzieland.
The natives are always telling the outsiders (infidels) that they are misunderstanding. The problem is, however, that the outsiders know what they are looking at.
Its really hard for someone living in the 6th century AD to tell time. Watches haven't been invented yet.
At lunch a coworker remarked that the outside world has a view of us that we are all like the participants of the Jerry Springer show. It is no wonder that they don't think much of Americans. My reply was that there are 30-to-40 countries with dictatorships and human rights records so bad they would be awful places to live. I really don't care much about what those countries think of us.
God willing, of course.
Bulldog;in eccence,sheik al-hilali,does not have the intellect to discipline himself from an attractive woman in shorts and a tee shirt.Why do many of them flock over to Western countries,where they have to put up with that garbage?(sarc)
It is not muslim we misunderstand, we misunderstand why more people have not caught on. They may, just may get a hint as their hair is pulled backward and they feel a knife on their necks. Some will still attempt to befriend them.
Mustang65,
Yes, it is very hypocritical of them, isn't it?
Ronin,
I re-submit to you my earlier comment:
I surmise that we all hope, deep down in our hearts, that all religions are peaceful. And, it is this inveterated expectation of a peaceful religion that has been used so effectively as a double-edged sword against us...
That's my theory, anyway...
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
The majority of people in the U. S. just assume, I believe, that Islam is something like Christianity in terms of its ethical level and couldn't possibly be as bad as it seems from the beheadings, terrorist attacks, stonings of women, the Beslan massacre of children, assassinations of nuns and other atrocities its adherents routinely carry out. Political correctness and multiculturalism have also made it very unacceptable to criticise or evaluate. Thus, for a number of reasons, people want to be reassured that all is well and are only too willing to accept Karen Armstrong's books and articles like the above white-wash as the way things really are so they aren't disturbed, inconvenienced or criticised for being prejudiced or judging.
The only way to change this situation is to keep publishing books like the ones Robert Spencer, Bat Ye'Or, Andrew Bostom and others are writing, to spread the word that such books exist and to use the facts in them to refute the white-washing, wishful thinking and outright disinformation that passes for critical analysis in much of the media.
"Prophet Mohammed never propagated violence while imparting his teachings."
Muslims-are you really this sick? Do you have any sense of reality? Do facts mean anything to you?
"Prophet Mohammed never propagated violence while imparting his teachings."
Muslim apologists-are you really this sick? Do you have any sense of reality? Do facts mean anything to you?
Doctor Bulldog,
Once there was a theory the world was flat. We both know better, many have yet to learn islam can not, will not and could not change, modify or claim down. Some will learn and for some it will come far too late.
Ronin,
Amen to that, brother!!!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Islam is not hard to understand for those who actually take the time to do even a cursory study. It's too bad that most people want to believe the propaganda.
Evil is not good.
Oppression is not freedom.
Plague...that monkey quote...tell me that was a joke.
Please?
Prophet Geoff
“the Christian West is more anti-Islam than even the Hindus of India, who suffered under Islam for five centuries.”
That’s because we aren’t going to put up with their crap. We find their customs vile and barbaric. We don’t like being pushed around or told what to do or how to do it. We think their treatment of women is ogre like. One minute they are the mouthing the rop line, the next, someone is being converted at gunpoint. Then to top it off if you quit after being converted at gunpoint they hunt you down torture you and cut off your head . Gee what’s not to like?
Prophet Geoff,
Follow this link:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/denis_giron/islamsci.html
Good luck!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Why is this religion so misunderstood? The collection of individuals who produced the hadiths must have followed that man everwhere he went. They wrote down everything he said, did, and thought about. The Quran and hadiths are detailed and cover everything from prayer to butt wiping.
I have read questions from Muslims who ask if it is better to drink water sitting or standing, or if is is acceptable to use knives and forks.
Christians, Jews, Hindus and others cannot accept the fact that a religion, any religion, can instruct it's followers to commit such heinous acts of voilence. These good people, when confronted with the truth, still do not believe what they read.
This pseudo-religion is misunderstood because main stream, true believing jihadists want it that way. They are succeding.
In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful,
I really do feel sorry for you people. You are so blind to the truth. A veil has been placed upon your eyes and your hearts are closed to the truth.
Do not allow liars like Robert Spencer pervert you from the truth. Islam is a religion based upon logic, based upon reason, and every single rule in Islam has a basis upon fact. 1,400 years after the Quran was revealed they are finally discovering some of the science that was mentioned in it already by God. The Quran is a miracle in itself.
Do not believe the lies the media and people like Robert Spencer give you about Islam. Islam is a religion that is against the killing of innocent people, that is against violence and acts of cruelty.
You must be incredubly foolish to relate the actions of some so called Muslims to Islam. a Muslim does not equate to Islam. Just as for example, I do not see the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as ats perpertrated by Christianity.
I wondered when the next troll would make an appearance. It is, at least, more than the mahdi will ever do.
1,400 years after the Quran was revealed they are finally discovering some of the science that was mentioned in it already by God. posted by JihadJihad
Well, when do you think they will find that mud hole that the sun sets in?
Posted by PelayoPelayo
Is shia still around?
http://www.rferl.com/featuresarticle/2006/10/0d4961f5-8599-44ba-ba07-3feaf2077a9e.html
Gary,
Imam Mahdi(aj) will return from his period in occulation, alongside Prophet Isa (jesus) as , and they will conquer the world and restore justice. You mark my words. His re-appearance is near.
JihadJihad- "A veil has been placed upon your eyes and your hearts are closed to the truth."
Only moslems wear the veil and are closed to the truth!
Try looking in a mirror and say that again.
BTW, with a name like yours, we know where you stand, troll.
I am increasingly of the opinion that Islam is a cult, not a religion...
From the following link:
http://www.spiritwatch.org/cultdef.htm
"(A cult is) .. a group that uses methods that deprive individuals of their ability to make a free choice. They use deceitful recruitment techniques, they deceptively and destructively use the devotees' energies, and they capture the devotee's minds .. to advance the goals of the group leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community. .. Cults can include groups and organizations that are not typically viewed as cults".
And, now for an all inclusive, secularist definition of Religion:
http://www.darc.org/connelly/religion1.html
"Religion originates in an attempt to represent and order beliefs, feelings, imaginings and actions that arise in response to direct experience of the sacred and the spiritual. As this attempt expands in its formulation and elaboration, it becomes a process that creates meaning for itself on a sustaining basis, in terms of both its originating experiences and its own continuing responses."
Islam, it would seem, is more prone to the, "Cult" definition, rather than the "Religion" definition...
Anyone have any thoughts on this line of reasoning?
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
To educate western populations about the true nature of Islam it would be necessary to play on Muslim weakness: their hatred of ridicule and the de facto semi-divine status they afford their "prophet".A good start would to start a convention by which that word is always put in inverted commas.When Muslims protest they look ridiculous and menacing at the same time. They do not look like representatives of a religion of peace or of a great religion that would presumably supply its adherents with self-control mechanisms when faced with contradiction.
The task is to give them plenty to protest about. If people are going to print business cards, why not go the whole hog and print Mo cartoons on to adhesive address labels with your computer printers. These could be fixed to virtually any and every surface in the urban landscape. Muslims would either get so used to seeing them that they ceased to care or they would explode in fury at the insult, demonstrate about it and look silly yet again - until, of course, they announce their intention to behead the perpetrators.
The Quran is a miracle in itself. - JihadJihad
I agree. It is a miracle that so many ignorant people still memorize and practice the hate and intolerance contained in that vile text. Join the 21st century. Your belief system reached its zenith 1400 years ago.
Islam -- the religion of submit or else.
What kind of Kool-Aid (tm) has T Thomas been drinking?
When ever I ask muslims or their apologists about certain violent or misogynistic texts i am told every time that they are innacurate translations which have lead to "misinterpretations".
-posted by: aladdinsane57 at October 26, 2006 04:48 PM
That is why I try to find English versions printed by Muslims for Muslims. They seem to be pretty inaccurate leading me to misinterpretations too.
I found out a co-worker is a member of the Nation of Islam today...
Doctor, if you google for cult recruiting tactics and compare it to islamic teaching it is similar. One could argue that cults do serve a purpose but that would be mean, so I will resist the urge.
"incident in New York"
You're kidding, right? How about carnage and slaughter on a mass scale?
Never propagated violence?! How can they say such falsehoods with a straight face? Especially after all we've seen from September 11 onward? (To say nothing of ancient history.)
And yeah, they teach Jesus will return - to turn the whole world (or what's left of it) to Islam!
Wallyuk your idea has some legs.
The Univeristy of Arkansas mascot is the Razorback HOG. There is a mountain in Arkansas that has a hog painted on the side of it. The image can be seen for miles from interstate 40. It would be easy enough to use something like this as a base for the cartoon.
I guess that they might like to take on the entire population of the state of Arkansas? Believe me......FAT CHANCE.
God willing, of course.
JihadJihad
Is that you again Aisha? You really should resist your penchant for leg pulling.
I really do feel sorry for you people. You are so blind to the truth. A veil has been placed upon your eyes and your hearts are closed to the truth.
-posted by: JihadJihad at October 26, 2006 08:05 PM
Jesus' (Isa's) follower Matthew quotes Jesus, saying:
Take heed that no one decieves you. If anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ (Al-Messiah)!" or "There!" do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to decieve... . See, I have told you beforehand. Therefore if they say to you, "Look, He is in the desert!" do not go out. -Jesus, quoted by Matthew (Bible, Matthew 24: 5, 23-26)
Jesus' follower John said that an Antichrist, an Anti-Mahdi would come who would deny that the Eternal Father has an Eternal Son. (Bible, First John 2:22-23) And before you say that this is a corruption of his teaching, Christians have trustworthy sources going back to within the lifetimes of Jesus' followers. I can also read Jesus' teaching in it's origional language, Koine Greek—the meaning of these sayings is unchanged in Greek.
St. David, King of Georgia,
Save your breath, if he were a true believer he would be in a sack in iraq. He might fool himself with his cyber warrior crap but a true, pious muslim would not be able to resist testing himself in battle. We know that didn’t happen as he is here.
hey l like those business cards printed and placed in books! wow great idea.
T.Thomas who is the idoit? people who never had a clue about islam can smell its putrid evilness, they at first know instinctively its evil, and upon reading about islam with the help of people and websites like Roberts truly are able to understand the stench that comes from islam.
Ronin l am getting to think the only way muslim men think they are brave is to kill unarmed civilians, and ambush others. what kind of test is that, it is the most cowardly act. l read on a bbc website about how these taliban fighters are so brazen. well they wear civilian clothes, mix in with civilians and use them as human shields. that to me shows that they are cowards to the core.
Zena,
I have heard the same and worse, like shooting over the top of their own children. Don't worry our Troops are used to it and can hit them despite the shield. I think it is safe to say there are very few muslims cities or villages anywhere that have not felt the wrath of jihading against Americans. To quote a friend “we are piling them up”
Yet Prophet Mohammed never propagated violence...
That such ridiculously false statements can be made with a straight face demonstrates how acceptance of such cognitive dissonance between statement and easily provable reality is possible.
Used to be a time when ridiculous assertions got a professor run off campus, a writer run out of a newspaper, a politician ousted. But no more. Now such clowns are taken seriously.
Maybe we just don't have the stomach to publicly state what we all know. To do that would be to accept the need to fight, and nobody wants that fight. Except the Moslems, of course. Therein lies their power.
* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *
And just what did the Prophet Mohammed (as Tim Russert and Brit Hume call him) actually prophesy? He prophesized the end of the world in 1015 AD, as I remember, and that prediction flopped.
Ronin,
I know that Jihadjihad is probably just some bored college student who decided to try to stir up some people. But you never know who is reading. If I can cause one person to question the veracity of the Quran or Islam I am happy.
When have Hindus ever distorted or attacked anyones religion? Give me a break, Islam is the only religion that attacks all other religions. Islam respects no religion, accept Islam. That is why it can not be construed as a viable religion. Islam needs to learn respect for other religions, to gain respect for Islam.
Islam is a religion that is against the killing of innocent people, that is against violence and acts of cruelty.
At last, a 'real' muslim. Not just a 'so-called' muslim. Unlike all the other muslims who are misunderstanding their religion all the time.
So - real muslim - please tell me where the koran says "killing of innocent people" is against islam? I would really, really like to know exactly where that phrase is, because I haven't been able to find it.
If I can cause one person to question the veracity of the Quran or Islam I am happy.
Posted by: St. David, King of Georgia
I stand corrected, drive on.
If I need to learn about camel urine, and how to deal with flies, and how to deal with lambs and backstabbing, snoring, and the likes, my existence means null. Update, hmmm, seems to me the bible needs no updating. These people realy believe in Sharia? I would have thunk that literature and education would have revealed the shortcomings of a failed religion. And if it is not failed, then why portray it as such?
"The Quran is a miracle in itself."
It certainly is. It's a miracle there are still idiots who buy into it after all this time.
clearly T.T. hasn't read the Quran or the Hadiths or studied Islamic history..... no one could state such gross inacuracies unless they were wildly ignorant or cravenly dhimmi.......
any one with a brain, that read and educated should know that islam is so flawed, ilogical, inaccurate, and downright evil. so that is mostly likely why muslim's brain are fried, and they can only act out in violence when ever questioned about their cult. any sane brave muslim usually leave this cult.
Glad to see you all are so active..
Nothing I could possibly add.. everything that needs to be said has been said - much more eloquently that I could so I rest my case. My case is in very good capable hands :-)
Anti-Semitism is illogical
Islamophobia is logical
I still have no idea WHO it is that is guilty of "misunderstanding" this so-called 'religion'.
Is it islam's jihadists that misunderstand Islam? Or is it the mosques that don't understand Islam? Or, maybe, is it the 'infidels'? Could it be the govermnments of the Islamic parts of the world? Is it our lying eyes misunderstanding Islam?? Was it Muhammed who misunderstood Islam?? Is it the Kuran that doesn't comprehend Islam? Is it the Arabs who "misunderstand" Islam??
What is it that they or we aren't getting? Islam kills people. What else am I supposed to "understand"??? What else do I need to know???
I give up. Somebody must be getting this thing right. If it is the mosques and jihadists that are understanding Islam, then we have Islam down correctly at this website. Anyway,I actually do NOT care if I "misunderstand" Islam. Islam institutionalizes murder; it always has. THAT part of it I understand.
I went to my local Borders today and noted that Karen Armstrong's biography of Mohammed, along with other biographies about him, were all found in the religion section under Islam. Robert's book, however, is far away from these, in the Middle East history section. I was too dispirited and too busy to complain to anyone at the store today, so I merely moved the two remaining copies of Robert's new book; they are now side by side with Armstrong's opus. I was aggrieved to see that I was the only one thus far to have bought Robert's book from this Borders store, as there had been three copies initially and two remain unsold. Anyway, I will return to Borders in a couple of days to see if the copies of Robert's book were moved back to the history section. If so, I will discuss this with the store manager and will follow this up with an e-mail to corporate. I was gratified, however, to find that a copy of Islam Unveiled was present in the Islam section, somewhat to my surprise. Good. Let the curious and the skeptical have ready access to such books along with the egregious agitprop of Armstrong, Esposito, Chomsky, Zinn, Amy Goodman, Norman Finkelstein, et al.
Somewhat OT - Ralph Peters in today's New York Post wrote a column that demands to be read. While Peters came a cropper a few weeks ago, this article redeems him. Please, readers, try to get his article (Oct. 26).
I bought an old Koran, an English translation, at an antique book shop in 1967. Never bothered to read it until 2004 and 2005.
Of course it is an amazing text, as is the religion based upon it.
After much study, I have concluded that islam is simple in principle. It is like a horseshoe.
Islam is hard. And crooked. And has holes in it. It is unyeilding, rigid, heavy, and cumbersome. It is made of base substance. There is nothing beautiful, valuable, or comforting about it. It is to be worn, or rather affixed. For those to whom it is affixed, it is the only means by which they touch and are touched by the world.
Further, it is not to be honored. It is fit only to be underfoot, slapped on the pavement, drug on the ground. If raised too high, or elevated, it is likely to be let loose and it will injure someone.
It doesn't take long to understand that islam is like a horseshoe.
The only confusing part, if there is one, is that muslims are not like horses. For one thing, horses are independent thinkers. Horses also respond to love, and are willing to work hard for reasonable masters and for fair rewards. Horses do not intentionally hurt innocent people. They protect their young.
No, muslims are not like horses. Muslims are like field rats. They live in warrens and congregate in mobs, and are forever trying to gain entry into your house. They breed without cease, and their environment eventually deteriorates into squalor. They seek out and hide in dark places, steal for a living, and eat what others have saved. As with rats, muslims do the most damage not by what they eat, but by what they piss on.
All of this is in the Koran. Not just my Koran, but every Koran. It's all there, right between the lines. You simply have to read with an understanding of what a horseshoe is.
"The Quran is a miracle in itself. "
The real miracle is not the Koran, but the Bible. The Bible not only combines history with faith, prayer with poetry, but even teachings with science. While the Bible is not a science book, it is correct in the science area.
texan,
You are wrong my friend muslims have more in common with pigs. Cleaned up and raised inside like housedogs they seem to be like any other pet dog but in their heart they are still wild pigs. Given a chance they will root around in any manner of filth and squeal loudly when cornered. They will bugger both male and female pigs with seemingly no preference. You can attempt to clean them up just to have them soil themselves all over again when they get a chance.
"Do not believe the lies the media and people like Robert Spencer give you about Islam. Islam is a religion that is against the killing of innocent people, that is against violence and acts of cruelty. "
Oh, really?
If Islam is so peaceful, why is the Koran and the Hadith so full of teachings that not only COMMAND, but bless VIOLENCE against others, be they non-Muslim or even wives. There is a command in the Koran that husbands are to beat their wives, a chapter 4:34.
Vacation plans in Kuwait? Book now. All is secure.
Maid Caught Red-Handed Doing Black Deeds
Ummah News Links
"Do not allow liars like Robert Spencer pervert you from the truth."
If Robert Spencer is a liar, why is it that his books and website is doing quite well?
If Robert Spencer is a liar, why is it that his books and website is doing quite well?
Don't go there. The Koran is a huge seller in Islamic communities, as is Mein Kampf, a German bestseller based on the Koran.
Ronin, I think you have a couple of great points there. But pigs might be too intelligent, and would certainly be offended by the comparison. I don't want that on my soul.
If I have to hear another muslim or muslim apologist use Jesus as a means to lend credibility to Islam, I think I'm going to throw up. T.T. reasons, as if he is incredulous that the "Christian West" doesn't just fall all over itself to embrace muslims because Islam accepts Christ (or some distorted version of him) as a prophet:
"Muslims revere Jesus Christ as a prophet. According to Islam, Jesus did not die on the Cross and it will be Christ who will return on Judgment Day. In spite of this acknowledgement of Christ in Islam, the Christian West is more anti-Islam than even the Hindus of India, who suffered under Islam for five centuries."
I'm currently slogging through Dawood's Koran and it's not a pleasurable experience, but I'm determined to get through it somehow. I think of Mo as being sort of a religious namedropper, constantly mentioning Jesus and the prophets in order to make himself seem more important in the eyes of people who want to believe in something and who already had some limited understanding of the scriptures of the Jews and Christians. He positioned himself at the center of it all, though, make no mistake about it. The distorted versions of the prophets that he uses curiously resemble none other than old Mo himself. They are just empty names under which he tranfers his own situation and beliefs in order to give them more seeming authority. What a rip-off.
The Christ of Islam is nothing more than a prop for Mohammed, in my opinion.
I really do feel sorry for you people. You are so blind to the truth. A veil has been placed upon your eyes and your hearts are closed to the truth
posted by doublejihad
You're just jealous because we have hearts and muslims don't. Since you are heartless, you are incapable of pity, so save your hypocrisy for allah.
No, our eyes are not veiled, we hate veils. Veils are for muslims, who hate women and everyone else except other muslim males. Muslims are incapable of love; they don't even love allah, they only fear him. Allah does not want the love of muslims, only their submission, but allah is jealous and forbids muslims to love anyone; not themselves, their wives, husbands, children, parents. Since muslims do not have hearts they cannot love, but they can hate with the utmost intensity and fervor of all living creatures.
I have a heart so I can feel emotions like compassion, love, and pity. My God is not a wicked monster who wants me commit mass murder in His name, or sacrifice my children to sate His bloodlust. He does not want me to hate my fellow man or to judge others. He does not require rote, mechanical, meaningless rituals; He is all knowing and expects me to adhere to a simple set of rules which do not include hate; intolerance; murder; lying; stealing; envy; rape; genocide; pillage; plunder; slavery; torture; or beheadings, but these heinous atrocities are a muslim's guaranteed ticket to paradise. Allah's idea of "good deeds" would send me straight to Hell so yes, my heart is closed to allah and the evil that is islam.
Evil cannot be hidden under a cloak of lies and platitudes, and something as hideous as islam is far too conspicuous to disguise. Whatever "pity" can be squeezed from your cold, unfeeling heart should be lavished upon the poor, lost souls of islam, not us.
Robert Spencer does not lie. Every word he writes about islam comes from the canonical texts of islam, the same ones your rabid mullahs, imams, ayatollahs, and sheiks quote from during their malicious sermons and vitriolic diatribes, in which they extoll suicide murders, jew-killing, jihad, terrorism, hatred, intolerance, dhimmitude of non-muslims, and death to the Christians. If he is a liar, so are they.
"Yet Prophet Mohammed never propagated violence while imparting his teachings.'
Typical Islamic Lies. Mohammad never taught peace is a more accurate statement. His last words, which abrogate any peaceful clause that may have been in the sira and hadith were:
sura 9:5: "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)....."
sura 5:33: "For those who do not submit to Allah their punishment is . . . execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, from the opposite sides, or exile from the land".
The revered Islamic work "al-Nasikh wal-Mansukh" (The Abrogator and the Abrogated) deals in great detail with many subject matters addressed in the Qur’an wherein there appears to be some conflict or contradiction. The book goes through every sura (chapter), pointing out in full detail every verse which has been canceled, and the verse(s) which replace it. The author notes that out of 114 suras, there are only 43 which were not affected by this concept. As an example of the scope of abrogation in the Qur’an: there are 125 versus that call for tolerance and patience which have been canceled and replaced by sura 9:5 and 5:33.
Do these Muslim apoligists really think us "infidels" are as dumb as the brainwashed muslim masses and we do not know how to read these Islamic books?
We realize that many so called "journalists" don't that are employed by terrorist supporting media, but that's the exception, not the rule.
Islam's so called "scripture" and the actions of it's followers are what prove what Islam teaches, they aren't "lies" told by Infidels who are merely point out that these grusome barbaric bloody acts of murder ARE what the Koran and hadith teach.
JihadJihad said
Robert writes long articles, even complete books, all well documented and with careful references to original Islamic sources.
And, again, the best the Muslims can do to refute it is to say "nuh uh". My three-year-old can come up with more cogent arguments. But thankfully she's not as into using beheading as a debating tactic as the Muslims are.
Let me guess, if we don't accept your assurances and your invitation to join the Religion of Peace (tm), your Allah has sanctioned you to murder us, removing limbs from alternate sides of our body?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go have some pizza pizza.
T. Thomas of the Business Standard may criticize Christians more than Moslems, but he also wrote this: "In spite of this acknowledgement of Christ in Islam, the Christian West is more anti-Islam than even the Hindus of India, who suffered under Islam for five centuries." So, it turns out that the Hindus suffered under Islam, the religion of peace and tolerance, for five centuries. That's some admission.
" I do not see the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as ats perpertrated by Christianity."
Posted by: JihadJihad
You would be correct, The U.S. has many faiths, and some follow none, and yet all here will fight as one once attacked. The followers of islam have yet to see.
Prophet this word..
Islam, and it's followers are the army of the anti-christ. You who follow islam have been led not with truth, it is a great lie.
Time for you to still change, but it is short. Consider your fate, it is your choice.
Islam is a religion based upon logic, based upon reason, and every single rule in Islam has a basis upon fact.
Posted by: JihadJihad
Please, by all means, explain this "fact"
Qur’an 18:83“They ask you about Dhu’l-Qarnain [Alexander the Great]. Say, ‘I will cite something of his story. We gave him authority in the land and means of accomplishing his goals. So he followed a path until he reached the setting place of the sun. He saw that it set in black, muddy, hot water. Near it he found people.”
The only true fact about Islam is that the people that follow it must have part of their brain missing.
Borg asks, "So - real muslim - please tell me where the koran says "killing of innocent people" is against islam? I would really, really like to know exactly where that phrase is, because I haven't been able to find it."
Oh there's some line in the koran like 'If you kill one person unjustly it's as if you've killed all of mankind'. Nice sentiment. Too bad it's so non-specific, unlike the many explicit and targeted instructions like "Kill the Unbelievers wherever you find them". Now you can really sink your teeth into that!
It's also made quite clear that innocents such as might be covered by the golden rule on unjust killing are few and far between in lands outside of Islam's grip. THOSE people, those INFIDELS, are to be converted, subjugated, enslaved, or killed, period. Welcome to Islam!
"Islam is a religion that is against the killing of innocent people, that is against violence and acts of cruelty."
Posted by: JihadJihad
Please, by all means point out where it says that in the Koran.
You can't, because it doesn't say that anywhere.
The Korans says to:
sura 9:5: "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)....."
sura 5:33: "For those who do not submit to Allah their punishment is . . . execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, from the opposite sides, or exile from the land".
Those are the final commands given by mental Mohammad (may he rot in hell forever)
Go, run along to your Lying Imam, and ask him to explain the "al-Nasikh wal-Mansukh" to you.
If you have the nerve to, which I doubt. It IS one of Islams well respected books on the subject of abrogation, all you need is the will to learn the lies of Islams apologists.
Save your soul, stop worshipping Satan and his prophet, otherwise you condemn yourself to hell.
"Imam Mahdi(aj) will return from his period in occulation, alongside Prophet Isa (jesus) as , and they will conquer the world and restore justice. You mark my words. His re-appearance is near. "
Posted by: JihadJihad
Again, you believe the lies of Satan's prophet Mohammad, and worse, further lies of Scribes who write things that weren't even in the Koran, such as this "hidden Imam crap, which is B.S> that was fabricated around 1200AD.
Christ is returning alright, and He's returning to smash the Prince of Persia's Army and alliances to dust.
If you read revelations, you'd realize that YOU are on the wrong team. That army which consists of MUSLIMS is the one which rises in the east (MUSLIMS) against the west (US Christians, Christ's Church) The are commanded by the a false prophet who is the BEAST. The beast and all his armies are destroyed, cast into the burning lake (HELL) to burn for all eternity.
It's Amazing you haven't at least checked what Christ has said about these times, but instead believe what a murdering baby raping pedophile prophet Mohammad says.
'If you kill one person unjustly it's as if you've killed all of mankind'. Nice sentiment. Too bad it's so non-specific,
Posted by: alexon
And also abrogated by later 'revalations' made by Muhammad the murderer.
How about one Mohammed ibn Abdullah ibn Abd al Muttalib? Better known to scholars like you as Prophet Muhammad? Did he equate to Islam?
Also, are you the same guy as the other poster Jihad we had the other day?
Back to T Thomas, what's an article like that doing in Business Standard? Why don't they simply monitor the Sensex, rather than go into something they have no clue about? He is at least nominally a Christian, so why doesn't he just convert to Islam, if he thinks that Islam has a better depiction of Christ than the Bible does?
Here's a relevant quote from a print media interview that can be found at US News & World Report website:
"Protecting this country is the number-one issue. And you talk to – admittedly, my focus groups are not broad, but people always say to me, thank you for protecting us. I view this as a struggle of good versus evil, by the way. I don't think religious people murder. I think people are misusing religion to justify their murder. And a lot of Americans understand it that way. Maybe it's not nuanced enough for some of the thinkers and all that stuff – that's fine. But that's exactly what a lot of people like me think. And my job is to make it clear to the American people the stakes, and to spell it out as plainly as I can. And a lot of people understand it."
President Bush
We need to ask, is Islam perhaps a much-misunderstood religion.
Yes it is. Far too many people consider Islam a religion of peace. Far too many people take the word of the apologists over actually researching the subject. Reading any of R. Spencer's books or any of the books listed here at JW/DW should be a minimum requirement before forming an opinion.
Dear JihadJihad,
Non-Muslims have no veil covering their intellect. But you seem to have a doubly thick veil over your soul itself.
The contradicions in the Koran are plentiful proof that the book is a sick thinking of a hallucinating man.
My only advice to you is - wake up from your Koranic stupor and enjoy life and freedom.
alexon- You mean this?
---
27 Recite to them the truth of the story of the two sons of Adam. Behold! they each presented a sacrifice (to Allah.: It was accepted from one, but not from the other. Said the latter: "Be sure I will slay thee." "Surely," said the former, "(Allah) doth accept of the sacrifice of those who are righteous.
28 "If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds.
29 "For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine, for thou wilt be among the companions of the fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong."
30 The (selfish) soul of the other led him to the murder of his brother: he murdered him, and became (himself) one of the lost ones.
31 Then Allah sent a raven, who scratched the ground, to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. "Woe is me!" said he; "Was I not even able to be as this raven, and to hide the shame of my brother?" then he became full of regrets-
32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
34 Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
---
Nothing about "muslims not killing innocents" that I can see. This is only for the Children of Israel. And even then, it doesn't say that either brother was "innocent". Only "righteous", in an unspecifed way, but presumably in a religous manner that pleases allah. That could just be that he prays and asks forgiveness dozens of times a day. Kind of like the 'raise hell all week and ask forgiveness on Sunday and it's ok' mode.
Does that indicate that only the religiously "righteous" are innocent? The "selfish" are not innocent? Selfish in what way? He gave a 'scarifice' but it was 'rejected'. Why was it rejected. He murdered because he wanted 'allah's' favor, didn't get it, and was jealous?
And since 'allah' controls all things it could have stopped the murder if it had wanted to.
So I looked here
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/4.html
for further clarification of what this story is about from the 'corrupted' book. Supposedly muslims read it also, so they say. It seems the sacrifice was rejected not because of his behavior but because of the item that was given in sacrifice. Rejection of the gift? No reason given. That wasn't very nice of allah.
For TWO opposing looks at the koran-
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
http://www.searchtruth.com
JihadJihad: You will have better luck talking to the Kuran's famous talking trees and talking rocks than trying to fool any of us here. Because YOU CAN'T!
Someone has already nicknamed you the 'Taqiyya Mockingbird'. So you may want to fly on out of here and go slay yourself some 'unbelievers.'