Progress. Up to this point Blair has been certain that Islam had no problems at all, but that there was just this pesky Tiny Minority of Extremists that had hijacked the religion. Now for him to be asking if "Islam" -- not "radical Islam" or "hijacked Islam" -- can come to terms with the modern world is momentous. "Prime minister says Britain needs debate about Islam," from Associated Press, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
LONDON Prime Minister Tony Blair said Tuesday that Britain needed a debate about the position of Muslims, but that the faith also needed to decide how it comes to terms with modernity.At his monthly news conference, Blair said he supported a local school authority's decision to bar a Muslim woman from working as a teacher while wearing a veil.
He said, however, that should be just one issue in a broader debate about "the relationship between our society and how the Muslim community integrates with our society."
"There's a second issues which is about Islam itself, and how Islam comes to terms with and is comfortable with the modern world," Blair said.
Similar debates, he said, were happening around Europe and in the Muslim world.
Cue the calls of Islamophobia and threats of reprisals for 'humiliating' and 'alienating' muslims.
There's about as much hope for serious dialogue with islam as there is for this chocolate fireguard I'm trying to market.
Wow, this is an amazingly good development because the only way for Islam to reform it's hatred is to be pushed in the right direction. Consider this a full blown shove! I can't wait for American politicians to say similar.
This guy needs to realize they done want to integrate into society they want to replace society
He needs to tell them that we are the other and we are here to stay.
debate about "the relationship between our society and how the Muslim community integrates with our society." -
how many more debates are planned, as if it will make any iotta of a difference?
It is a waste of my tax money, because it will not bring anything new to the front.
In order to win this war - we should call this war, the war on Islamic Terrorists. We can focus and win it. We don't need to debate whether Muslims can integrate bla bla.
Mr. Blair, they could not integrate for one reason, they belong to the Army of Mohd. known as Islam. Their men will fight, as it now seems their women will also fight us, our way and our values.
How can the Muslim community integrate into British Society and the Modern world? Simple. The modern world and British society MUST change to "allow" integration. Sharia law would be a good start. Implement Sharia and you'll find no problem with them integrating. I think that's what Blair has in mind. Of course, he wouldn't say it, but he'll work towards it.
Implement Sharia -
Blair has not disappointed me about Muslims three much. He will scruthenize them without giving in. I could not believe it when I once heard, one Mr. Bikhari or what have you, representative of British Islamic Parliment, was planning to discuss Sharia law in Britain and their benefits!
Apparantly, there is a group of Islamic people who have set up an Islamic Parliment which they call it British Islamic Parliment.
I guess they some big plans on their mind!
Tampa used to be a place that British came to stay the winter. From what I am hearing now, many do not plan to return. They claim their government would rather have muslims. I was wondering why the early arrival, now I know. The ones with the money are headed here to “the colonies”. I guess the others will have a choice between a conversion to islam, dhimmi hood or a fight.
Our stupid politicians try their best to find any foolish-myself "solution" to deal with the shit the did create in Eurabia : massive muslim immigration to give companies low-paid labours and whom numerous children are now arrogants and behave like wolves in accordance with islam .
Last Sunday , i met an 80something old guy in the figures exhibition in Luneville .This retired nice person was exhibiting the range of wonderful wood models of napoleonic artillery and logistical devices he does skillfully manufacture as a leisure . We did spoke about islam and the sad prospect of Eurabia .This person was a prisoner in concentration camp during WWII and spent a few years in Algeria after WWII.
He told me that the Europeans living in Algeria used to say " if you put one muslim and one christian in a boiling pot and let them cook for a while , you will notice that their flesh and blood can not mixed "
He told me that the muslims had a say regarding the christians " if you behave like a wolf versus me ,i as a muslim will fake the sheep , but if behave like a sheep , i as a muslim will be the wolf "
He told me : "i should not say that because i spent some time as a prisoner in a nazi concentration camp , but if politicians go on betraying us like they do we will regret Hitler , and European countries will need a new dictators to clean all the mess "
Stupid politicians should listen to old-experienced average day people ..
By all means have a discussion. Explain to people what the islamics believe and what the koran teaches and says. Explain to them what the islamics are saying aloud to us dhimmi's. And be sure to explain to them what the islamics are doing. Actions speak WAY louder than words.
Until people realize they are not in our countries for a better life and to assimilate, we're at their mercy. When people also realize why they're here, we won't hire them, trust them in positions of any authority and won't let them have their way and say.
The islamics don't want us to know their plan. Even if they took over, they don't want you to know anything until they knock on your door.
I would like to see an open discussion with pictures. I know islam is not on everyone's mind, so they don't see articles, discussions or pictures and they don't realize how barbaric this cult of "people" are. They also don't realize how badly they treat their women and children. Most people are under the impression that muslims also love their children. Aren't they in for a rude awakening?
Aren't they in for a rude awakening?
Posted by: freewoman
That goes both ways. Thanks to islams miscalculations we now have almost a million combat vets just from the current fight. Many who are quite skilled at hunting muslims. We have been fighting long enough many have completed their tours and have reentered the job market and schools, some are entering politics. I think two groups are in trouble, the muslims and the dhimmi liberals. Times they are a changing.
The debates with Muslims will just be an opportunity for them to practice taqqiya. Words with Muslims mean nothing.
Action is needed.
atheling,
Peaceful men such as myself would never advocate violence but I think the action that is needed may take require a little force.
Through what exact mechanism or process does a "debate" actually solve a problem?
Through what exact mechanism or process does a "debate" actually solve a problem?
Posted by: del
de bat et um in da hed,
sorry weak moment.
Blair is one slippy b*****d I dont take a word he or his government say at its face value.
I think Robert has a very sharp needle with which to deal with the problem of Islam, and it needs to be used in whatever "debate" occurs, anywhere. It is the character of Muhammad himself and his actions. All of us are familiar with what happens to a public figure when an accusation of misconduct is floated: they are suspect, often forever, whether or not the accusation is justified. In Muhammad's case, there is ample justification. Once the truth about Muhammad comes out, infidels tend to change their view of Islam and Muslims. It is our job in our personal life and particularly online, to express this as reasonably and clearly as possible.
The evidence that there is something wrong with Islam itself is just about overwhelming. Only a few pieces of critical information are needed to cinch it in the minds of millions. I myself feel far from hopeless. I see a change of attitude and a great willingness to hear out what I have to say about Islam. This has occurred over the last year, on the tail of the cartoon Jihad, French intifada, and Papal death threats. Once a person knows what Muhammad was really all about, the genie is hard to put back in the bottle. It is a beneficial process because it innoculates them against self-censorship. It is quite OK to revile Muhammad's behavior, and the Islamic canonical texts, without reviling Muslims as people. That doesn't make you a racist, and most people know it.
Ronin, I think the majority of us are ready for a politician that will call a spade a spade and speak out on muslims. The world needs to acknowledge the atrocities these people practice. A person who will stand by his words and NEVER apologize because the TRUTH hurt someone.
"The evidence that there is something wrong with Islam itself is just about overwhelming. Only a few pieces of critical information are needed to cinch it in the minds of millions."
I think this observation is grievously mistaken.
1) More information, more data, more facts, will not be effective against the PC template by which millions in the West surgically detach Islam itself from the problems caused by Islam.
2) Sufficient information is already out there.
3) Millions of people whose minds are formed by the PC template already know that sufficient information about Islam, but their minds filter that information:
4) It is not the knowledge of information alone that forms a person's opinion: it is the interpretative filter by which that information is fit into various cognitive and analytical slots in that person's mind.
5) Unless we decontruct the interpretative filter of the PC template, no amount of information, no mountains of data about the perniciousness of Islam, will be sufficient to change most minds affected by PC.
Wow, Blair got his British balls back :)
There's a second issue which is about Islam itself, and how Islam comes to terms with and is comfortable with the modern world.
Oh great, it'd dialogue-with-the-Moslems time. A gabfest orgy in which the manipulative dine of the narrow brain pans of the gullible. A good way to waste a critical decade.
* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *
Say, didn't the Europeans already cover this ad nauseum in their vaunted European Arabian Dialogue (EAD)?
Maybe, instead of wasting hot air on such a counterproductive exercise, Tony can have a dialogue on how Liberalism comes to terms with and is comfortable with the forthcoming Moslem takeover (Sharia).
* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *
Dialoguing with the Moslem gets you two things:
1) The chance to give them more free money, and
2) The chance to give them more prerogative.
Slightly off topic, but news you don't get from the conservative corporate owned media.. The British have turned Southern Afghanistan over to the Taliban, saw this myself on BBC America just now.
Googled some terms and found this item British forces turn security duties over to Afghans in southern district
Saw video of British Commander in Southern Afghanistan (Khandihar?) shaking hands with the Taliban leader.. the exit deal was brokered by tribal chiefs.
Wonder if Bill Oreilly, Roger Ailes, MSNBC, CNN or any of the rest of the right wing media (which so does cover the arse of the RNC and the administration) will run this item. I somehow don't think so.
freewoman,
I would love to see politicians tell the truth about islam but they are scared. Who will protect them? The dhimmi politicians who would post his travel arrangements online would sell out Blair to save themselves. President Bush would awaken to find all his secret service had suddenly called in sick. No one is stupid enough to expect bravery from the French, even the Russians are starting to cower. I am still hopeful the young returnees from our own military will enter the political process. Many have had buddies killed by cowards hiding behind women and children, they understand both cowardice and the need to fight.
"Saw video of British Commander in Southern Afghanistan (Khandihar?) shaking hands with the Taliban leader.. the exit deal was brokered by tribal chiefs."
You were there right mate - saw it all first hand - you could tell it was a taliban by the eh turban on his head like eh? listen kid why dont you think before you mouth off - our lads are fighting and dying over there and are certainly not making deals with the Taliban - who do you think we are French?
johnmac,
You are right there is a difference between a tribal chief and the taliban, not much, as all are muslim but you can work with the tribes. They might be primitive but they maintain some measure of control over their misguided children.
There was a refreshing poll on cable this afternoon (Gibson, FOX). 70% of those polled think that an all out war is inevitable with Islam. It struck me as strange that the figure was allowed to be broadcast.
If Blair can manage to have a public debate, more power to him. That seventy- percent figure will head north as the Muslims go nuts. And maybe some politician will ride the tide to the Presidency in 2008. On an agenda of a new Constitutional Amendment.
33.36. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.
A note to Tony Blair: Dammit, Islam is not a University of Edinburgh debating club.
If Muslims start losing the debate, they start chopping heads.
The wearing of veils in England is a hostile act. Only a liar would pretend that is not so. The truth is that if this hostility continues then Muslims are going to have their citizenship withdrawn and they will be told to get out of the country. Their sense of reality is warped by their belief-system. (For example, they were "shocked" at the recent Israeli response to their aggression, though they were warned of "painful consequences" to them if the aggression continued-for at least six weeks before the Israeli response!) They just don't see the disgust, the growing contempt for Muslims, they don't see that people are fed-up with the tiresome and childish nature of their threats and their deceptions, they don't see that they are going to be first asked to leave and then told to leave many European countries. (Muslims are not only childish, they are also expensive. Their diper cleaning is a high-maintenance cost in the "host" countries.)
They can wear veils in Saudi Arabia. Their current "hosts" are getting bored with the insanity of the Islamic belief-system. It stinks.
Limes, thanks for the FOX poll, but I'm not sure I believe it. Look at FOX viewers--maybe 1/2 of the population that watches it via those who watch such things ie the conservatives. Dilute the 70 % with liberals and the "moderate" GOP wing like Condi and Hagel--the numbers would drop to 30 %. I would count myself one of those 70 % polled.
The Blair issue(Jack Straw as well) point to the fact that Muslim immigration and integration(or the lack there of) as key issues in play in England(and Europe). The conservative Tory party is coming out with critiques against Islamic immigration ect . . . Labor will not be far behind.
Incidently, the welfare benifits in England are so grand Americans are now claiming sanctuary as aliens in England!
Just thought of something.
There is a very nasty race killing being tried in Glasgow at the moment which is not being much reported outside Scotland. Also the leader of the far right BNP goes on trial soon for saying Muslims were not nice and something like the 7/7 bombing would happen a year before it actually did.
Are Blair and Co creating a diversion?
I reject the notion of this debate as being progress. Indeed, this is an attempt at taqiyya. This is a chance for muslims with silver tongues to say all the right things in front of the camera, to help pacify the growing animosity. That is what it is all about. This is what Blair has up his sleeve.
He knows the public is losing patience with islam, so he knows that damage control is needed. This "debate" is a chance for muslims to do damage control. In fact, I am sure that the muslim leagues in Britain are behind this.
From last Oct, was this because of better jobs abroad or by immigration at home? The Brits here tell me it was the later.
"One in six British graduates has deserted this country to work abroad, according to the first major study of the 'brain drain' crisis.
It shows 1.4million graduates are working overseas".
BioRabbi; I don't trust any of the polls either, although it was not advertised as a poll of Fox viewers only.
The thing that struck me most was the numbers came out. We get daily polls on how we view Madonna's adoption, Tom Foley's e-mails, and bio-engineered foods. There is a deafening silence on poll data regarding Islamic issues.
The last one I can remember was shortly after 9/11 and it had to do with blacks supporting racial profiling of Arabs (they did at a higher rate than whites).
I agree with the first word of Robert's article. Progress.
Ronin:
I'm not sure the Brits should move to Tampa. Have you been to Westshore Mall lately? Its hijab-city.
bluezion, ours are tame, they look at ya mean (for wearing Support Denmark t-shirts) but so far except for evil looks they are harmless. I do expect one to trash my truck but so far traffic is worse on it than muslims are.
Fred:
Nick Griffin said"Islam is a wicked religion" in a private meeting. He also predicted within 7 city blocks where the Islamists who planted the 7/7 bombs would come from. For this he may get 20 years in Tony Blair's England. How many of us on this site have said so much worse regarding Islam?
The BNP stock is rising because from the start they saw the Islamic threat and spoke out against it while Tony Blair and his buddies kissed Muslim butt. Now that the the British people see the same Islamic threat, Blair seems to be jumping on the bandwagon to save his own political butt and that of his party. This same man who a few months before called Islam "a religion ahead of its time." Who would believe this poltical chameleon?
What's to debate? Islam sucks no matter how you look at.
Debate over and out.
I thought that Nick Griffin had already been tried and acquitted.
I think that Jack Straw guy got the ball rolling. They're definately getting warmer on this issue. I hope they go at this from the right direction, like criticism of Muhammad and stuff like that. They should televise it, saying the things that Muhammad did and how the Muslims respond to it. Shock the world there, Blair!
I should have added another point to my list. Besides the problem that "Millions of people whose minds are formed by the PC template already know that sufficient information about Islam, but their minds filter that information", there is the additional, related problem that --
Millions of people whose minds are formed by the PC template, even if they do not yet know the sufficient information about Islam, will filter -- through the interpretive filter of the PC template by which Islam itself remains forever sanitized -- all new information about the problem of Islam that is communicated to them.
I do not trust Tony Blair. As a politician he has been a very big disappointment. He, unfortunately is one of the bleeding heart liberals.
How can there be any talks unless Tony Blair and mob are willing to listen and take notes about what happens within Islam? There cannot be any progress unless Tony Blair abandons his PC stance.
The community as a whole is being hurt by Muslims who are trying to make us all into dhimmis, and by the PC liberals, who have a very warped view about tolerance.
The one thing you do not need in the UK is a far right organization such as the BNP gaining any form of credibility.
I think Tony Blair is being misrepresented in this article. I mean, he tried to pass tough laws against the Jihazis, but the bleeding heart libs in Parliment slowly whittled away at those laws until they were of none effect.
Now, he's trying to re-instate those laws. I covered this on my website:
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/tony-blair-tough-love
I know I'll probably be taking a lot of flak for this post, but I really think he is trying to do something about these Jihazis.
Even if you don't like him, there's no doubt that we would have been in worse shape in Iraq without his assistance and military backing...
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Islam won't come to terms with and isn't comfortable with the modern world.
The short version: Islam can't be reformed.
The long version: Islam can't be reformed.
Briars/
"Fred:
Nick Griffin said"Islam is a wicked religion" in a private meeting. He also predicted within 7 city blocks where the Islamists who planted the 7/7 bombs would come from. For this he may get 20 years in Tony Blair's England. How many of us on this site have said so much worse regarding Islam?"
Although I personally disapprove of the BNP there are some things which they do that I can approve of. Nick Griffin and the BNP will put the koran on trial and they will win - exactly as they did the last time. Last time they proved that that which they said was drawn from the koran and, therefore, accurate and they (he) were (was) acquited.
Mr. Griffin and the BNP are nobody's fool and I have no doubts that they will, once again, justify that which they said by referring to indisputable moslem source material. In British law this will gain them acquital on all charges (again) - if that which one says is provably true then it is true and one has a right to say it.
Turning to the wider issue of UK governance and islam then I think that one has to see in our Prime Minister's statements an open expression of that which has been realised in government circles for some years; videlicet that islam is incompatible with Western freedoms and Western democracy but that so many people in the UK have bought into the multi-culti ideal that even a Prime Minister has to move slowly if he or she wishes to change the ingrained mind-set.
I think that it came as a surprise to this government - and as a welcome fillip - that over ninety percent of the population supported Jack Straw's stance on the niqab. I don't think that the government, nor the higher eschelons of the Civil Service, had any inkling of the strength of feeling against some islamic (perhaps all islamic) practices as expressed in Britian today.
All told, I welcome the Prime Minister's comments on islam and integration. I would ask you all to remember that this incumbent will not be seeking re-election and so he can afford to state some of the truths which he, and his government, have so far, and for (hopefully) devious reasons, refrained from doing so.
I detect in what he said, however, only the slight whiff of a zephyr of current of air of a breeze - not an all out sea-change. However, in today's multi-culti UK what he said is tantamount to a revolution - it was, for some, shocking, unthinkable, disgusting. But then, all societies contain a significant number of people who are hard of thinking.
I rejoice because change has started. Did anyone actually expect British Cabinet Ministers to say what they have said over the past week. Let us not lose sight of how momentous even this tiny, tiny step actually is. Government in the UK has actually questioned the position of islam in UK society and the practice of some mohammedan beliefs. Good grief, this is significant. A tiny step, but the fight back has begun. Come on folks, blow on the glowing embers and help the fire to take hold. We might just win now.
For me this is a Churchill moment
"This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning"
"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival."
Dominic.
"There's a second issues which is about Islam itself, and how Islam comes to terms with and is comfortable with the modern world," Blair said.
This is jihad, they are attacking our religion, we must fight as our loving, noble, compassionate, sweet sweet prophet mOhammad has taught us... Sorry, I was just play acting and God-damn I've just chewed my arm off...
"We [American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan] have been fighting long enough, many have completed their tours and have reentered the job market and schools, some are entering politics."
-- from a posting by Ronin above
If the right lessons are drawn about Islam, and the misunderstanding of Islam that prevented those veterans from leaving as early as they should have, and forced them to remain on a fool's errand that was wasteful for them and for the country, and soberly conclude that what is needed before anything else is a comprehension of Islam, and of Muslims whom those soldiers saw, in all their meretriciousness and ingratitude and eagerness only to grab whatever they could from the Americans, but only for themselves, their families, and in some cases their tribes, and never for a fiction called "Iraq," and if that knowledge impels them into public life, that will be the one of the most important achievements of the otherwise stupid effort to create an impossible Light Unto the Muslim Nations.
Muslim radicals to justify violence at student debate
http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,,1924367,00.html
"Islamists will seek to justify the use of violence at a debate this week organised by students at Trinity College Dublin."
"There's a second issues which is about Islam itself, and how Islam comes to terms with and is comfortable with the modern world," Blair said.
There's the problem-Islam is barbarism from the 7th century existing in the 21st century. How can it ever be comfortable with the modern world?
Expecting that would be like expecting a cave man to perform open heart surgery.
Interesting how Maggie4Life is right wing, I am left wing, but we both agree on no support for the BNP.
I think the American posters here (in this post) are just getting in the way. We have an opportunity here to find like minded UK based anti-Jihadist people, and work out how to promote effective change.
Euro / UK posters know there is a debate forming here, with many people’s views ripe to be influenced and guided towards anti-Jihadist goals.
I want to remove the Jihadist threat through democratic means.
I want therefore to influence the agenda to encourage voter demands to mirror anti-Jihadist goals.
The myth around the political landscape is that only the media, PC culture and the politicians control the terms of the debate.
Mr. Spencer is ‘video-blogging’ to push the agenda. Podcasts, streaming media and the upload culture are tools we can use to get our message out there. The Jihadists have got hold of multimedia production and they have streamed radical content globally very effectively.
Our problem is we don’t have enough content.
Blair made an excelent presenation of this issue this year, early August, somewhere in California. I don't know exactly where. It was at least a 30 minute broadcast. I kind of assumed that this was the reason he seemed to get into trouble back at home.
PRCS; That’s a pretty provocative article. One side of the debate argues to justify Muslim violence. The other says violent means are not warranted.
In the name of equality and open exchange of ideas, it also seems appropriate to have a third viewpoint heard; regarding a host population’s right and/or duty to deport immigrants who refuse to assimilate.
In any case, let the debate begin…
[
Until people realize they are not in our countries for a better life and to assimilate, we're at their mercy. When people also realize why they're here, we won't hire them, trust them in positions of any authority and won't let them have their way and say.
]
They will use our anti-discrimination laws to get jobs and to get positions of authority. Their [our] Fifth Column guarantees them that much.
All we have left at this time is NOT TO BUY ANYTHING that would put money in their pockets.
I don't know whom I hate worse.. the islamofascists [since calling them mu*is is not allowed here] or the Fifth Column of lefties and multikulti useful idiots.
We may have to divide up ou countries between those who want these people among us and those who'd rather live in peace amongst ourselves.
I DEMAND to build Jewish Temples and Christian Churches in Paki-land and in SOWdi-land!!! Till then - no justice - no peace!
Wow, Blair got his British balls back :)
Posted by: EliasAlucard
Wishful thinking...
Bravo for Blair. He found his stones. Now his whole government need to be united. Dump the PC crap.
Posted by: Phximan
WE DON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN!!!!!!!
MEET THE NEW BOSS!!!!
If Blair can manage to have a public debate, more power to him. That seventy- percent figure will head north as the Muslims go nuts. And maybe some politician will ride the tide to the Presidency in 2008. On an agenda of a new Constitutional Amendment.
So far Tancredo seems like our best bet. leadership can only come from the AMERICAN PEOPLE this time!!
We are in DIRE STRAITS!!!
Don't believe a WORD of what this DHIMMIBLAIR is telling you!! They are playing for time!!
I really am dumbfounded as to why all of our western "leaders" are so keen on selling us out to the BEAST. THAT is our WEAK POINT!
VIVE LA RESISTANCE!!!
THANK YOU to all of you who've been posting speeches of Winston Churchill in this forum. Please do keep it up!
There is nothing more inspiring than to read this Man's Wisdom - which is UNIVERSAL.!!!
This is a time for Winston - NOT for Mahatma!!!
Galloway - got the F*** AWAY!!
All of us need Britain to STAND STRONG!!!!
Please, my Brothers, DO NOT GIVE UP THE GOOD FIGHT!!!
VIVE LA RESISTANCE!!!!
What's to debate? Islam sucks no matter how you look at.
Debate over and out.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS
TIME TO BUST SOME HEADS!!!
Go Scotland!!!
NO MORE DEBATES!!!
TIME TO GO HOME!!!
VIVE LA RESISTANCE!!
If the right lessons are drawn about Islam, and the misunderstanding of Islam that prevented those veterans from leaving as early as they should have, and forced them to remain on a fool's errand that was wasteful for them and for the country, and soberly conclude that what is needed before anything else is a comprehension of Islam, and of Muslims whom those soldiers saw, in all their meretriciousness and ingratitude and eagerness only to grab whatever they could from the Americans, but only for themselves, their families, and in some cases their tribes, and never for a fiction called "Iraq," and if that knowledge impels them into public life, that will be the one of the most important achievements of the otherwise stupid effort to create an impossible Light Unto the Muslim Nations.
Posted by: Hugh
GENIUS!!! Very much on point indeed! There is a "ray of light" after all and it's not coming out of Malawi either... You are so right.. the American Servicemen coming back from these God-forsaken places will indeed know "WHAT'S UP" and they should BY ALL MEANS get into politics!! That is a VERY HOPEFUL THOUGHT indeed!!
Okay, for you Blair bashers out there, here is Tony Blair's comments today at a press conference, discussing two escaped terrorists on the lamb:
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
HERE'S A GOOD RESOURCE: HOW TO DEBATE A MUSLIM BY IBN WARRAQ.
http://challenging-islam.org/articles/warraq-debate-muslims.htm
I do think the tide is turning. Look at the 'Most Recommended' posts on the BBC 'Have your Say' debates regarding anything to do with islam. Firstly, these debates are vastly more popular than any others I've looked at recently, showing a high public interest, Secondly, the most highly recommended posts often state our point of view.
So try and give 'Have Your say' a daily visit and recommend/add sensible posts on islami issues.
Assalamau Laikum all,
Sorry was away, but an interesting thread. Debates about Islam should be welcomed but in the right context. This is a way of living for millions...and is to be welcomed ...but not ridiculed which it inevitably is when "debated" by the kaffur.
No one wants to listen to the muslim view ...they only want it brought out in public...ridiculed and then shot down in flames. Put down, and kick it when it's down....that is the kaffur motto ...and no wonder Allah SWT in the Koran warns against polluted dis-believers.
I think muslim association with mail stream political parties like Labour and Tory will come to an end soon....they no longer serve muslim interests ....better that a new muslim oriented part is started ...one that will help the kaffur integrate with the muslim...labour and Tory parties have failed woefully in this regard.
Get them by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow.
Sounds like George Gallow's party is right for the Pakis, as the Brits so appropriately call you. Like I've noted so often, gratitude is totally lacking in Islam, and despite all the grovelling before Islam by Labour over the years, and despite Sayeeda Warshi's support to Pakistan over India on Kashmir, neither of these parties, according to you, should get the Fuckistani vote. Hopefully, the rest of the country gives the UKIP or the BNP a plurality, if not a majority, so that both Tories and Labour will be reduced to the size of independent parties. Imagine a UK where the electorate is Infidel vs Mussalman, and the usual conservative vs labour issues are totally irrelevant, and the only issue in the elections would be would Britain become the 5th province of Fuckistan - reverse colonization?
Anyway, while that probably won't happen, looks like the British lund is finally swinging into action. Aapka ga'and jilbab kay andhar chupkey rakho. (Keep your butt under your jilbab)
P.S. Naseem, no need to ever apologize for being away.
Dominic.
Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem
Mr. Griffin and the BNP trial.
"In British law this will gain them acquittal on all charges (again) - if that which one says is provably true then it is true and one has a right to say it".
If I remember, after the last election one of their candidates said Muslims had started a particular riot in one of his leaflets. He got 6 months jail because the Judge said while it was true; it would cause racial prejudice and was therefore illegal.
So much for truth in Blair and Co's Britain. Look at elsewhere at two examples of what they call truth and ask what sane person would trust them.
1. Public concern about foreign Aids and TB cases coming to Britain for free treatment. They put the Head of a Health Authority in an ”ethnic area” on R4 “Today” which everyone listens to in the morning. He says “The cost of patients who are not entitled to treatment in my Authority is £30,000 a year which on a budget of £X millions is absolutely nothing”. BUT the key words are “not entitled” because to stop the spread of Aids and TB, Blair and Co have told the Health Service to give foreign Aids and TB priority –SO as they are “entitled” the cost of foreign Aids and TB is not included in the £30,000 a year he quotes. Nice one Tony!
2. The Heads of the Armed Services see Blair to tell him they cannot fight more and more wars with less and less money. Blair says, “Well you have convinced me now see the Chancellor of the Exchequer and convince him”. He is the Boss Man! He could have said, “You have convinced me I will get you the money”. For heavens sake! He was giving them the run around; he knew they had more chance of getting the money from the office tea lady.
Who would trust such people?
Priests beheaded , nuns shot in the back.
Churches burnt down in muslim countries while
mosques are built everywhere.
Afghanistans kidnap an Italian muslim convert
and they want an Afghan christian convert returned
from Italy so that they can kill him as an apostate.
What is there to debate about evil ?
Appeasment and Nazis , remember that one ?
Would any"debate" just be a whitewash PC exercise or get down to the real nitty gritty
bearing in mind muslims will not accept any
criticism of thier "prophet".
As a ex-labour supporter i know who the real
nazis are in this country and it is not the BNP.
It is absurd to prosecute anyone for calling
Islam an evil religion as the evidence is
everywhere.
If you cannot see that you are either a liar or
ignorant....or both !
Tony Blair knows he is in for a mauling at next
Mays elections , hence his new stance.
I must say, I don't trust Blair.
Hopefully I'm wrong...my hope springs eternal regarding human nature, against all evidence.
Blair gives me the impression he is covering his bets...he is trying to distance himself from responsibility for what I expect will be Islamic/communist riots, followed by war instigated by Russia and China when their 'culture war' is exposed, in Europe and Britain in a few years.
Blair is big on talk but little has been done so far in Britain to curb the downward spiral, although lately we can see signs of the British Bulldog...awesome animal :)
He does seem to recognise a problem, but blames his inability to fix it on others such as the judges.
What happened to Blair's promise to extradite extremist Imams for example?
Oh the tied has turned, no question. It has for a long time now for your average British man or woman. Maybe not amongst your LarteWho I believe have had enough of the islamic situation for a long time now.
What has changed is the 'mood', this started with Jack Straws remarks and has opened the flood gates. The rules of the game seem to have changed, no longer will I or some of you be branded rascist for our views.
The genie is out of the box, and isn't going back. The huge popularity of these views has been picked up by politicians of both sides. Alot of this is pure political vote grapping, I'm damn glad they are doing it over this issue!
Labour has lost and the Tories never had the 'muslim vote'. Jack Straw realized he had more to gain playing to the non-muslim vote, probablly after seeing how popular the more hardline home secetary John Read was becoming. The labour leadership jumped on this in an attempt to blindside the new 'touchy feely' tory party. Hence all the various speeches, statements and articles from Tony Blair down. An article in last sundays Telegraph by the shadow home secetary David Davis shows the Tories have picked up on this.
I must say I am hugely relieved by this, as I could never have voted BNP. Yes they 'get' the islamic threat but they also talk alot of bullshit about other issues of race ect
I didn't expect this, I'm very suprised by it all and it helps me sleep easier at night. Our political class has woken up! and there is no way they will go back to sleep, democracy won't allow it!
Woops, ignore the third sentence beggining 'Maybe not' That will teach me to preview my post correctlly!!
ProudBritishInfidel
Sorry but I think they are just buying time.
Assalamau-Laikum AIG,
You ask "Can Naseem, or anyone else here, give us any good, sane reasons why the British need muslims in their country"?
Well there isn't much point in discussing a hypothetical question like this. I mean peoples in India, Africa, China,etc. hundreds of years ago would have been asking the same question about british occupation. In India, the british outstayed their welcome by over 300 years. When asked the same question...it was simply brushed aside....so I'll do the same....ask me again in about 200 years, we can compare notes.
You ask "Seriously. To what do they really contribute? Other than crime, I mean".
Once again, the same answer as above could apply but....I'll answer this one.
1)Islam brings about a superior way of living...a discipline admired by the Kaffur ...but they are not prepared to say it.
2) Islam brings about a freedom for womens that the kaffur womens do not (YET) understand. The veil and Jilbab bring about freedoms which they will understand slowly as the mini skirt and showiing off blond hair has polluted the kaffur womens so.
3) Islam bring faith to the kaffur faithless socities. The Kuffer thinks he does not need faith....but we muslims know better...you must have faith...and this knowledge of Allah SWT we will impart unto you...it is good for you.
4)new businesses that will generate honest clean revenue such as Islamic banking, halal butchering, cloth mills for the manufacture of Jilbabs and Hijabs (which does take more cloth than your average mini-skirt).
5)New farming techniques to grow dates in cold countries as well as new food delicies like the Kebab are all welcome additions to the kuffer tastless larder of "shepards pie".
Bringing discipline to childrens by getting them to learn the Koran from an early age will give an essential to your grandaughters education.
Is this enough ...or do you need more?
And then there is that lost forgotten great British politician, Enoch Powell, whose career was ruined by reaction to his clairvoyant comments.
A chilling comment from the past.
Mushuntcowboy: British islamic Parliment or B.I.P.
I don't know why I keep rising to the bait. I guess it's because s/he really really can't go unanswered.
Naseem says:
Well there isn't much point in discussing a hypothetical question like this. I mean peoples in India, Africa, China,etc. hundreds of years ago would have been asking the same question about british occupation. In India, the british outstayed their welcome by over 300 years. When asked the same question...it was simply brushed aside....so I'll do the same....ask me again in about 200 years, we can compare notes.
Well I think that question is are there any good reasons why Indians, Africans, and Chinese needed the British in their country?
Trade? How about that for a start? Alliancies with the British to conquer hostile neighbours? The ridding of the Death Cult (the name of which escapes me) in India. Good government, law and order, trains and rail roads, schools, Indian men at British university, I mean, what more do you want? I know there was a bit of a slave trade in Africa, but it was the British that stopped it. Apparently, the Moslems are still doing it. ANd best of all it gave us what we now call the Anglosphere. A group of countries united in language who believe in freedom, and government by the people for the people, and who are at the forefront of fighting the fascism of Islam.
I mean the sorry truth is that the British were exceptionally advanced, and that we should dominate backward cultures was only to be expected. The mystery is why we ever allowed ourselves to be cowed by backward cultures? Our culture, Naseem, is BETTER than yours, and it is going to reassert itself.
So, I gave you an answer as to why Africans, Indians and Chinese have benefitted. Now give us a bit more than the stupid t**tting kebab.
Can anyone please explain to me why naseem is so terrified of Blonds. From what I've seen, read, and heard, muslim men line up just to get the chance to marry one of those blonds. Sorry, I just answered my own question.
But seriously, I am glad that Naseem posts to this site. It gives us a chance to debate face to face in a rational, logical way. Perhaps this is the sort of thing old Tone had in mind?
naseem, need more. I come from the Pacific N.W. That's the reason we're chating online. Ever see one of those big silver birds in the sky? That's where I come from. Simplicity is simple, technology is technical, now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll eat a kebab. by the by, it's people, not peoples.
Hi Naseem:
Thanks for that list of Islamic contributions to the West. It was very instructive, but I think you missed a few other important contributions:
- Islam has brought freedom from the truth. It is no longer necessary for anything ridiculous statement to be true or verifiable, so long as it furthers the advance of Islam
- Islam has brought freedom from from personal responsibility. All evil in the world can now be attributed to those who do not believe in Islam, who in turn cannot believe because it is Allah who causes one to believe or not to believe. What an advance in morality!
- Islam has brought freedom from left-handedness. We now know what that left hand is for (and don't you ever forget it).
Is this enough...or do you need more?
If I wanted to cover my blonde hair, I wouldn't continue to color it.
Naseem has never experienced what we free women enjoy when we get facials, pedicure and manicures, get our hair done and shop for great clothes. It's so sad that women there have to cover what God has given them. Why bother with washing your hair, getting a great haircut, coloring it, if no one can see it? Why bother with buying new clothes if you have to cover and no one see it??? Oh, and not everyone wears miniskirts. That's just stupid.
Poor Naseem. She doesn't know what it's like being a woman.
An addition to Naseem's list of the benefits of Islam:
It allows men to rape women without fear of being punished, unless the woman can produce four uninvolved male witnesses.
Islam's farming techniques? Farming techniques???
Islam's founder was a nomad. A nomadic pirate, to be more precise. No farming techniques there. Rape, pillage, stealing... that's what Islam excels at.
Naseem, are dried up chewy kebabs are all you can boast about as a "delicacy"? What about sheep's eyeballs? Goat's head? The food you people eat are considered forms of torture (i.e. Fear Factor) here.
Now, a nice juicy rack of babyback pork ribs.... YUMMM!
I do not usually bother reading your posts as they are seldom worth a reply. But as you have mentioned items of history, which happens to be my speciality I thought I would answer a few points.
Firstly I would not dare to ask the question, “What have the Muslims brought to British society?” because an MP called Enoch Powell asked that 40 years ago and he was hounded by every liberal Englishman for the rest of his life.
In the matter of history you say “The British outstayed their welcome in India by 300 years”. If you take a look at a Hindu website you might be surprised to find that however racist the British may have been they treated the Hindu great deal better than the Muslims. Specifically they did not murder Hindus who openly questioned Christianity while Muslims did murder Hindus who questioned Islam. They did not take any Hindu woman they fancied for their personal property and in if any English girl married a Hindu they might not have approved, but they didn't murder the man which was apparently normal practice if a Hindu dared to marry a Muslim girl.
It might also interest you to know that an Indian scholar who wanted British rule to end, could still write a book when it did and thank Britain for the benefits they had brought to his country. He doubted if any country had benefited so much from foreign rule since Britain itself was ruled by Rome. You have heard of the Roman’s? The educated Indian view is that however bad the British may have been, they actually freed India from Muslim tyranny.
Your points on Islamic banking and business practices I find quite extraordinary as Muslims seem to have earned quite are unenviable reputation in the short time they have been in Britain. An Englishman who has dealt with most of the new communities took the following view - and the Sikhs and Chinese are dead straight (honest), the Indians God you've got to haggle BUT you'll get your money. The Muslims - forget it.
However as I believe in continuous learning I wonder if you could advise me on a number of aspects of Islamic teachings,
The Ayatollah Khomeini wrote a guide on the correct Islamic procedure for sexual intercourse with goats. Essentially if a good Muslim reached a climax he was allowed to kill and sell the goat for meat provided he did not eat it himself or sell it to anyone in his own village. We do not have too many goats in Europe and I'm curious to know if sheep or other small animals are an acceptable substitute and do your men have any difficulty disposing of the meat in the circumstances described above?
In the matter of Halal meat I have been told that the reason for this is to ensure that neither the meat or the animal has not previously been dedicated as a sacrifice to pagan gods. Are there any people in Europe who would be so insensitive as to offer animal sacrifices to false gods and pass the surplus meat on to good Muslims? If so what punishment would you recommend for them?
There is in interesting difference in the approach to adultery between Christians and Muslims on which you might enlighten me. A woman taken in adultery was brought before Christ and they asked him whether it was correct to stone her to death in accordance with Jewish law. Christ replied “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. There are few other lines but essentially Christ instructed her to go away and sin no more. There is a photograph on the web of a middle-aged Iranian woman being buried up to the waist before being stoned to death. She does not look too happy at the prospect which I think you would agree is quite reasonable of her. Could you tell me how Mohammed’s reintroduction of a first century punishment in the seventh century could be described as progress? Would you cast the first stone or is that not allowed to women? Afterthought, you think it would be a good and liberating idea to stone Muslim male adulterers to death?
Finally I eat and very little takeaway food and consequently I have never eaten a kebab. But if I were to consider it, could you absolutely guarantee that it did not contain the flesh of some Kuffur woman a good Muslim had finished with and wished dispose of? This has happened in at once case in Britain possibly twice.
Always willing to learn.
Last should start - Naseem
Poor Naseem. She doesn't know what it's like being a woman.
Posted by: freewoman
freewoman, that is the point, they can eat all they want, gain as much weight as they want, they don’t have to brush or even have any teeth. Body odor is not a problem, it is expected under those hot clothes. They compete with no one. Pretty or ugly they are all the same. The other women do not know or care what they look like nor do the men. The men all lie and claim their wives are pretty, the other men realize the lie but they are polite and agree.
My theory on this is they must have incredibly ugly women for all this to be necessary. With the hard lives and pain they have to endure in their short and painful existence you can’t blame the way they look on them. Add in all the inbreeding and covering them is an act of mercy. When I see a hajib, I see a slave. I wonder how many scars both physical and emotional I can’t see. I am not a fan of muslims, that is obvious to all the regulars but even I feel deep sorrow for their women.
Islam has a long way to go before it joins the rest of the world in the 21st century. What angers me, is that we are being dragged back to the medieval age, just to catch Islam by the shirt collar, and drag it kicking and screaming to the modern age. It is not a task that we volunteered for but have been forced to, because of the idiocy of our politicians who allowed in millions of Muslims into the West. Were it not for that, we could all have lived happily in our own domains, and there would be no clash of cultures/civilisations, or what have you.
Ronin, I DO pity muslim women in the middle east. They have no clue or chance of a great life. I don't pity Western women dressing in the garb....they can toss their burkas if they wanted.
If Naseem would stand up (of course she'd have to have a few thousand other women standing with her holding guns) for changes, she too, could color her hair and show it off. Changes start at home.
Assalamau Laikum all,
Some few points of note to debate but as I said in my opening post...peoples like Ronin, Aethling, Fred ...they have nothing to offer but ridicule and derision...is it really any wonder that muslims want to better a society that takes this stance.
I would like to answer a point Free Lee made "As for the British"...he said "they have a better culture than Islam so it was OK to impose it on us backward peoples for so long".
Free Lee, ofcourse only the Kaffur will agree with this point...your forefathers had the upper hand, and their faith served them well in that distant time.
But what goes round ...comes round. Now it is us muslims who say "we have the better culture, only you don't know it yet...you shaped the past ...but we will shape the future....Free Lee the 21st Centuary is Allah's time ...it is Islam's centuary....it is the winner's centuary...and like you gave us the railroad...we will give you the Jilbab....like you took christianity to a distant land...we bring you Islam ...from a distant land".
I suspect that your greatest fear is that your "superior culture" will be ruled by "Barbarians"...well let me assure you.. IT WILL, as it is Allah's will.
Free Lee, go tell your cousins in the deepest depths of Kuffar land...go prepare for conversions, reside in the sea or go to outer-space ...Islam will be there.
This flat earth of ours my dear friend...is Alla's preordained destinty....this is stronger than atom bombs my friend...grow that beard and prepare that special shelf that is the highest in your book case for the pride of the Koran.
You have my best wishes and the power of Islam behind you...Allah speed!
Naseem
Ridicule! Ridicule! Those are serious questions please answer them to the best of your ability.
Otherwise I will suspect you are a hairy hippy somewhere in LA winding everyone up and enjoying it.
it would have been better to have had this sort of public debate at least 20 years ago, when it might have all been resolved with much less pain.
the writing was clearly on the wall back then, but by now the wall has been damaged, perhaps beyond repair.
at least it does now seem that Britain is awake, whatever the political motives, and i do think that we can still win, if we stand firm.
and win we must because, as Naseem (out of his infinite compassion) has explained, our future is planned to be a new Dark Age, one from which there will be no recovery.
Although, I should have mentioned the inbreading was more the tribal groups and not all muslim women are ugly, fat or scared my post was an honest assesment of muslim women and the mindset of the men. I really do pity the women. The men have it made, I could deal with a throw away wife, just trade them like they do fatwas and threats, they are about equal in value, oops I know better, threats and fatwas are forever, wives are temporary (only in islam).
Naseem,
I will think of you as I tear up the last copy of the Koran in the world and scatter the worthless scraps on the grave of the last Muslim.
The least you can say about Naseem is that she is consistant. Allah has his knee on her neck and she is helplessly held in one position. She has been in that Allahcrumpled position for so long, she thinks it's normal. Do you know what happens to a chicken if you place it looking down a long straight line? Thats Allahcrumple, and thats Naseem.
By the way, when I mentioned the grave of the last Muslim in the previous post it should not be taken as an advocacy of genocide. I just meant that their religion is on its last legs. Islam is in a desperate condition -feeling increasingly maladjusted and slightly ridiculous in the modern world. The very existence of a free, contented western world, with no need whatsoever for their obsolete and vaguely barbaric religion, represents a death threat to them. Why live in an unecessarily vicious Islamic hellhole when you could lead a free and prosperous western style life? Artificially stimulated fanaticism is like benzedrine - the effect doesn't last. Once their current wave of petty pinpricks is over and they've failed to restore their sense of self esteem with a really satisfying grand massacre, their religion will roll over and die.
I was kinda wondering if a group of Policemen would turn up at number 10 and warn Blair for stoking up racism against Muslims.
But seriously the politicians are running scared because the population is making it quite clear that they see a huge problem with Islam and their patience is running rather thin.
Good old Naseem says:
I suspect that your greatest fear is that your "superior culture" will be ruled by "Barbarians".
You bet it is my greatest fear. I don't want to have the moral police sniffin around if I even sit in the same car as someone of the opposite sex (which is something that happens in Iran). I don't want to be falsely accused and hung by a crane in the Town square. I don't want to be mutilated for the slightest misdemeanour.
My understanding of History is that the Scandinavians and the Anglo-Saxons developed ideas of individual freedom and justice in this country and in other places (I know that Iceland had a an early democracy) approximately about 1500 years ago. Some of these ideas were already inherent in the tribal psyche, I guess we inherted Roman and British ideas too. A lot of it was to do with the message of Self-Responsibility as taught by Jesus Christ, your saviour.
We had a Parliament as early as the 12th Century (if I remember correctly) which, in it's different incarnations, has made sure that no one man or woman can rule us without any moderation. There has never been the machinery or appetite in the country for a tyranny. When we sing "Britons never will be slaves" its not just a lyric, its a fact based on historical precedence.
Can you get hold of a Bible? I am sure that there are centres/a library in your town where you can go and read one. Get hold of a history book too. There's lots of learning to be done, and when you learn this stuff, you will understand why being an individual is a thing to be cherished, and fought for.
FREE LEE
Excellent!
However your Bible suggestion is not likely to be taken up as to even touch a Bible is forbidden in Isalm. I read that at the conclusion of a "bridge building" visit to a mosque an Austrian Catholic Bishop was presented with a Koran. He attempted to present a Bible in return, but imans reaction to the gift was the same as Count Draculas.