A note from Fjordman:
I got some angry comments at Jihad Watch some days ago when I posted an essay saying that: "The welfare state is now just a big pyramid scheme where Leftist parties take our money and give it to Muslim immigrants in return for voter support. The welfare state in fact provides insecurity, since it is used to fund the Muslim colonization of the continent."Well, read this:
Half of the first immigrants to Norway in the first half of the 1970s are now living on state payments. The study focused on 2,500 immigrants from Pakistan, India, Turkey and Morocco born between 1936 and 1955, and compared with a control group of Norwegians of the same age. In their first ten years the immigrants were actively employed, and as many were employed as Norwegians. But after this period their activity declined sharply, and by 2000 half of the immigrants were unemployed, compared to 13 percent of their Norwegian peers.Yet despite this, the Norwegian Minister for Labor and Social Inclusion Bjarne Håkon Hanssen from the Labor Party was in Pakistan a few weeks ago and asked for more immigrants from Pakistan, because this would be good for the Norwegian economy. I think what he really meant was that it would be good for the Labor Party, since most Muslims vote for the left-wing parties because they give them more money:
http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=131085
Fjordman
people who criticized you, talked about how the united EU can be a strong political tool.
here you are talking about welfare state.
Do you think if the EU dissolves, there is no more welfare state?
The EU has nothing to do with welfare policies of each state that were there decades before the EU even existed.
Also the example of norway is misplaced since norway is NOT in EU.
what eve happened to the Norwegian Underground..? I am sure a few tough Norsmen with mayhem in their minds could be found.. show the vermin that Odin is a Mighty God!
Thanks for pointing me back to look at this thread Mr Fjordman. I found this by a Mr StillFedUp:
BTW, why your UK is rejecting bulgarians and romanians and keeping dirty pakis?
Thank you for demonstrating why I don't want to belong to the same country as you.
Mr StillFedUp also said this:
A united europe if the majority of states have enough balls can be a powerful tool against muslims.
Europe with balls? Ha!
And to Mr Voyager, who posted this:
Had Woodrow Wilson managed to get the US Senate to stand behind the program the President of The United States imposed at Versailles in 1919, the need to come to fight in Europe in 1941 would not have been necessary for Americans, and Britons and Poles could have relaxed in 1939
Are you one of those Anti-American, Anti-Europeans? A Little Englander in the truest sense? And did the notion of self-resposibility just pass over your head? So it was the Senate's fault for World War II was it? I thought that it was because the Nazis hated the Jews, and the Prussians were inherently war-like and expansionist. But then, I guess I am not a big history buff like you, and I, sincerely, bow down to your superior knowledge.
Mr Fjordman, I am afraid that the concept of the welfare state has become one of those politically correct concepts that noone dares to speak against, which makes you one of the good guys in my book.
It's the 13% of Norwegians who are out of employment who are being asked to carry the can for Muslim cynical exploitation of welfare provisions. Working people campaigned for years to have their lives freed from the chronic insecurity caused by booms and slumps or ill health. That a system that, on the whole, was not abused should be vitiated by incomers who regard it as a bran tub to be dipped into, is unacceptable but it does not mean the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater.
I have a feeling, based on some observation, that, after a while, a noticeable proportion of Muslims living in westerm societies become either psychologically unstable or unable to function normally outside a Muslim community milieu. It's possible that, given the teachings of the religion, (if they are taken seriously by the individual) this problem is insoluble. Re-patriation of these people would be doing them a favour.
It sickens me that the wing nut minister for the labor party, hanssen, could be such a sell out as to go to a 3rd world country that openly despise Westerners only to solicit for the support of his party. Does he give a different reason, or is he man enough to admit it's all about the vote? Maybe he's into mosques, burka's, and chanting over megaphones with a beautiful white tundra back drop.
what eve happened to the Norwegian Underground..?
Posted by: germaninamerica at October 31, 2006 01:34 PM
They're hiding in shame. One can't blame them for doing so given these circumstances.
Fjordman nailed it:
EVERYWHERE in the west we see the left pandering to the Mohammedans, who vote as a block, whether it is the Major of London Red Ken, the despicable Gallow-swine or Jack Straw, whether it is a Morris Iemma in the Lakemba area in south Sydney: They all owe their mandate to the Mohammedans who should have never been given the vote!
The Germans didn't make that mistake, not yet, anyhow and even to this day the predominantly turkish minority doesn't have the vote, much to the chagrin of the greens and the rabid left who keeps promising that giving these turkish 'Mitbuerghers' the vote would basically buy their loyalty, in spite of the increasing Islamisaztion and the militancey that comes with it.
The left as useful idiots, the left as traitors, the left as Judasses who sell your country for 30 peices of silver, yet noone has openly come out and accused them. Why not?
Re: "compared to 13 percent of their Norwegian peers."
And 13% is supposed to be good? The U.S. rate in July was 4.8% and for Canada about 6.4%. Nothing like state control of the economy to bring prosperity.
This is an indication of skill level of the immigrants, including follow on generations. It shows their ability is sufficiently low that welfare is more attractive.
This also indicates they are undesirable as long term natives.
The same applies to third world immigrants in the US from Mexico.
Hanssen is making his move to surpass Quisling as Norway's biggest traitor if he really believes what he said. One day all those immigrants he wants to keep on importing will thank him by removing his head in gratitude.
americaningermany, ISLAMSFORLOSERS and others are right. We should go to the source, Saudi Arabia.
Remember the redacted 27 pages from the first 9-11 investigations?
"Saudi Government Provided Aid to 9/11 Hijackers, Sources Say"
begin quote
However one interprets the 27 pages, all who have read them agreed on one thing: If they are made public, they will prove extremely embarrassing not only to the Saudi government but also to the U.S. government, particularly to the FBI for missing so many clues pointing to Riyadh and for not aggressively investigating them, sources said.
"If this comes out, it will blow the top off the relations with [the Saudi] government because the American people will just be outraged," said one source familiar with the report.
"People don't know how much is in there and how specific it is," the source said. "The public hasn't gotten anywhere near the meat of it."
end quotation
See following link to get links to Congress's report which had 27 blank pages to express their frustration with Bush for protecting the Saudis.
References middle to bottom on Graham work
As of January, 2005 Norway's total population of 4.5 million included 75,761 Muslims, seventy-six percent of whom live in the Oslo metropolitan area. They hail from Pakistan, Bosnia, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Somalia. Some immigrated in the 1960s to work in mills and ship factories. (Norway saw another immigration surge in the 1990s from asylum seekers from Bosnia and Kosovo, also.)
"...and by 2000 half of the immigrants were unemployed..." ( from this thread's head, by Fjordman).
So, if half of all the immigrant moslems are now unemployed that makes a grand total approximately 40,000 people in 4.4 million of a total population (excluding immigrants) - as of January, 2005. And that is somehow a big deal? Well, excuse me if I sound unimpressed by Fjordman's reason for wanting to abolish the Welfare state!
I stand by what I said at:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/013742.php
Furthermore, would Fjordman please explain just how he would compensate the taxpayers of Norway for the decades of high taxation that they have paid in order to secure their benefits from the Norwegian Welfare State - how would he give the money back, exactly?
Fjordman's analysis is faulty. The Welfare state is not to blame for moslem immigration to Norway. What is to blame is the reluctance of the elected (by universal suffrage, remember) government of Norway's inability and unwillingness to control moslem immigration that is to blame. It is his fellow countrymen's blind, stubborn, deliberate and wilfull ignorance of all things moslem that is to blame.
He persists in believing that the abolition of the Norwegian Welfare System will remove the moslem problem from his society - or, at any rate, curtail its growth - whilst exhibiting a complete disregard for the fundamental assertion of millions of his fellow countrymen, expressed in election after election, that they are prepared to pay higher taxes for better care. He persists in confusing immigration policies with welfare policies in a deliberate attempt to mislead and, obviously, to further his own right-wing agenda by slurs against those who believe in government led social welfare and innuendos about the gross statistics in his own country - which he then extrapolates, on no basis whatsoever, to the other countries of Europe.
What is more, he is making comparisons with the EU - an organisation that Norway isn't even a member of. Yes, that's right folks. Norway is NOT a member of the EU. Its citizens rejected membership in a referendum. Every man, woman and child inside the EU pays just over two-and-a-half dollars every year to support Norway's anti-EU stance - $1.3 billion per annum in uncharged support - use of road networks not paid for, use of ferries not paid for, use of rail networks not paid for, use of other countries' health services not paid for, unfair subsidies on certain industrial sectors that are not paid inside the EU but paid in Norway by the government, massive subsidies to the press, to farming, to heavy industry that are paid by the government in Oslo but not paid inside the EU, and on, and on, and on. All this gives Norway a huge and unfair economic edge over the other countries of Europe that exist inside the the EU and allows the Norwegian government to post surpluses into the billions every year.
And then he cavils at forty thousand cheats and blames it all on the Welfare State and the EU. The blame rests squarely, I'm afraid, Fjordman, on the Norwegian people and their continuing elections of dhimmi governments. Nefore telling us to pluck the mote from our eye how about plucking the beam from your own?
Dominic.
Also, Fjordman, whilst you're defending the indefensible, perhaps you would explain to all the good folks here about the 'suicide pact', vis-a-vis the EU, that exists between all your political parties; you know, the one that would be constitutionally illegal in any other democracy but yours.
Dominic.
"The Germans didn't make that mistake, not yet, anyhow and even to this day the predominantly turkish minority doesn't have the vote, much to the chagrin of the greens and the rabid left who keeps promising that giving these turkish 'Mitbuerghers' the vote would basically buy their loyalty, in spite of the increasing Islamisaztion and the militancey that comes with it."
No aliens in Germany have the vote, including my parents when we lived there. Didn't drive us to terrorism!
If you want to attract businesses to your area, lower taxes. If you want to bring in dependency, offer generous welfare benefits. Works every time its tried.
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a man and a dog. –Mark Twain
Modern times make it possible for anyone with $500 in their back pocket to be anywhere in the world in a few hours. There are 5 billion people in our world who make in the range of a dollar a day. That number is projected to double every few decades. And they’ll all want to move in when the food runs out.
If immigration reforms are not instituted democratically now, they will be introduced at some time in the future by less civil means. A logical first step would be to ban all public forms of welfare until new citizens have been present for ten years.
Half are on welfare and the other half are probably in jail.
Dominic- Word gets around fast. 100,000 muslims poured into the state of Maine after finding out the welfare benefits were better than the state they were living in originally. If you think that they don't move to get benefits, you are mistaken.
Borg/
I didn't say that moslems wouldn't move to get benefit. I said that confusing welfare provision with immigration policies is not the way to go. If Maine is stupid enough to pay benefits to undeserving moslem immigrants then that's Maine's problem with immigration law - it is not the fault of the welfare system which Maine's ordinary taxpayers have paid for and should therefore expect results from.
I wouldn't have thought it beyond the wit of Maine's population to devise a system of entitlement to welfare which would keep out the moslem benefit tourists. But no, you advocate throwing out the system instead of excluding the barbarian moslem horde in some way. Wrong approach - and all the taxpayers of Maine who have paid for their entitlements over the years need to know precisely why you would advocate an approach which would be nothing more than the grossest of theft of their tax contributions to their State's welfare provisions. They would have to be repaid if welfare was summarily withdrawn - after all, that would only be justice.
My point: don't confuse welfare policies with immigration policies. From now on I'm calling that 'The Fjordman Error'.
Dominic.