French police official: "We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists"

They're just some mischevious, incorrigible youths!

Let us not needlessly sully the good name of Islam for our own personal gain.

From the article:

"..France's huge Muslim minority community has come under the influence of agents often influenced and financed by Al Qaida. These agents have recruited Muslim youngsters for urban warfare..."

Yet again, Al-Qaeda will be blamed and not Islam.

14 officers a day being injured and the French police unions ask for armoured cars! No, let's not ask for any OFFENSIVE weapons to destroy these l'il terrors. Just keep us safe as we drive through. Well, maybe a water cannon. Puhleeze. Until they give them the iron fist, this will only get worse.

I'd ask to bring in the French Army but...

Apparently, the Muslims have become persuaded that their numbers and their resolve are sufficient to go openly to war for the control of Paris...and he who controls Paris controls France.

If the French government regards the uprisings in the same way, then a military response will be forthcoming. That's not heartening news. Not only is it horrifying to think of open war in the streets of Paris, one of the world's most beautiful cities, but the French are notoriously poor at military operations of any sort and have been for about a century. It's why NATO's command structure wasn't displeased to see them go.

Truly, Europe stands at a cliff's edge. For whichever way France finally goes, the rest of the Old Continent is overwhelmingly likely to follow.

I guess we will see if france will stand up to the salami jihad as the muslim try to slice of a little gaza strip.

Great! Now we can see the way the two-state policy works in practice. For "France," read "Israel." For "Palestine," read "the Muslim suburbs." Somebody notify Secretary of State Rice: here's how people who deserve to be free of the humiliation of occupation practice self-government.

I reversed the terms in my second sentence. It should read "For 'Israel,' read 'France.'" Sorry.

Perhaps if we appeased them a bit more, they might start been nice to us.

As much as I enjoy french bashing I am going to explain slow enough for a frenchman to follow, exactly how to stop this.

1. First and foremost publicly announce a crackdown, let everyone know anyone participating or watching any riots will be rounded up and detained, if found to be participants they will be arrested, if they are illegal they will be deported. Everyone will be processed, until the perps are identified.

2. Round up everyone, squeeze them into box, photograph and fingerprint each one afterwards. All you need to is place their fingers on the sticky side of tape and place on a card. The plan is identify them later not on site. Fence them in with portable riot barriers and funnel them into controllable size groups. They will resist, gain control, if that can not be done shoot them dead. No more warnings, that has already been done in step one. You can use water cannon and pepper type sprays to get them into the cordoned area, most will go peacefully but plan on some to resist, violently. If they are still resisting at that point, they will never give up, except the fact you might have to kill them, you must protect your officers or they will just walk off the job and you are finished as a people. Sound too American for your french taste, too bad, gain control, one neighborhood at a time and keep it.

3. They use mass attacks your police must do the same, cordon off entire neighborhoods, portions of it if it is large. Place them, in churches as holding areas, not mosques, churches (easier to spot the radicals musilms from the more peaceful rioting ones) someone is organizing this, find them, they will be the ones throwing a hizzie over being held in the church. Make sure you protect the church. If there is not a church in the area any large open room will do. After they have been processed: checked for signs of violent acts like gas or something similar on their hands, fingerprints, photo, identification papers, etc. Arrest the obvious one, release the others slowly, very slowly make the process hard on them. Film them leaving, make that very obvious.

4. Film all of this, show this to your public, take away the argument these are just precious children out to have fun, they are enemies of your nation, fight or die, your choice. You have to publicly admit you are under attack and publicize your efforts to protect your cities, its people and your nation. Use the public to identify people, you have their pictures and it involves the populace in the defense of your nation.

5. Identify them, deport those who participated and are not citizens of france, prosecute the ones who are citizens. Many will just simply be warned, you were in the area of a riot, we have your photo and fingerprints, if you are ever in the area of another we will prosecute you as an enemy combatant.

6. Very public deportations and prosecutions is just the start of this clean up process, emergency laws made be needed to temporarily give police and the military more power. Expect people with an agenda to protest all the above actions, here is a hint, anyone pitching a hizze over the rights of these youths are part of the problem.

7. Expect terror attacks in response. The muslim leadership will blame france for these attacks because you cracked down. Deport them. If they are citizens close their mosque or detain them as supporters of terrorism and hold them until the youths claim down.

I can think of a few other simple methods but these are the quickest way to control your violent youths. Also, your welcome. I expect payment for my efforts to save your worthless hides. As soon as you get control I expect a check to be sent to the American Red Cross, The Wounded Warrior fund and The Veterans Administration to help treat our wounded Vets (ours not yours).

France's huge Muslim minority community has come under the influence of agents often influenced and financed by Al Qaida.

I knew it. It's only a matter of time before the "youths" receive training in weapons, explosives and urban warfare from foreign jihadists. Then the ambushes will be conducted with AK-47s and IEDs.

On the other hand, maybe they've decided not to go that far, because it's safer to stick to stones and baseball bats, because they're not as likely to provoke a serious response from the government. They'll reach their goal anyway, with or without assault rifles.

This is not a question of urban violence any more. It is an intifada, with stones and firebombs."

l think more French officials will appreciate what the Jews have been going through with their muslim infifada.

Ronin your proposals is very locial and can be used in any democratic society. l hope there are some French police, officials who are visiting this site.
anyone in Europe care to send it off to a French site? It is workable and will make even the appologist shutup.

These are not 'desperately poor' people. When they show the housing projects they live in, the windows bristle with satellite dishes and we all know about the enormous welfare benefits they receive not to mention the flow of drug money and myriad illegal enterprises they engage in as a matter of course. Its true that the apartments can be very crowded (with relatives, illegals, extra wives etc). Watch the movie 'A Tree Grows in Brooklyn' (which is actually a true story) to see what being poor used to be like.

"Not surprisingly, Muslim neighborhoods are becoming autonomous zones, with police and government workers too scared to enter".

Allowing this to occur could be the most serious of concerns.

No security apparatus in place to watch over the activities in those violent community sections could possibly allow them to become fortified even more with Al-Qaida operatives, and radical Islamists.

Allowing for these fortifications of Parisian Neighborhoods could bring in more serious and even ominous type weapons to confront the gendarmes or the real citizens of Paris who live in those areas and nearby.

No longer can the French put their collective heads in the sand ,no longer can they continue to make the politically correct comments, and practice the perversion of multiculturalism in an attempt to assuade the actions of an ideology that refuses to assimilate into the French Culture but chooses to control it by their totalitarian ideology. The excuse of referring to them as poor neighborhoods is what makes them ripe for these actions is shere nonsence at best, crime is crime,violence is violence.

We saw what happened in Los Angeles during the Rodney King Riots when the Los Angeles Police Dept. failed to act soon enough and not with firm resolve because certain city counselmen tried to get them to not be to aggressive in incountering the rioters, over 65 killed and several billion dollars in damages was the aftermath of a riot that not only spread from Central Los Angeles but into the suburbs all over the county. Los Angeles vows that this will never happen again and will come in with overwheliming force at the mere hint of a riot.

Hindu backlash in Gujurat against muslims

http://www.himalmag.com/2006/october/cover_story.htm

Gujarat as another country
The making and reality of a fascist realm

At a time when a progressive patina is being painted over the rule of Chief Minister Narendra Modi, a reporter visiting Gujarat four years and six months after the pogroms finds a state where Muslims are being thrust forcibly into ghettos. The trauma of the butchery is as raw as ever. The active participation of the Hindu middle class in Modi’s agenda, and the silence of the few who think otherwise, will guarantee the social and moral poverty of all Gujarat, even as it secedes from the rest of Indian society. Meanwhile, the wilful turn of the communal wheel will deliver radicalised militants and, thereby, a further marginalisation of Muslims. The Gujarat of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi has become unrecognisable. Nothing short of a massive social movement is required to cleanse the state of Gujarat.

Text and photographs by | Prashant Jha

Ahmedabad is a divided city. On one side resides fear and anxiety, helplessness and anger. Walk across Jamalpur, Mirzapur, Dani Limda, Kalopur, Lal Darwaza and other parts of the Walled City. Go to Juhapura – one of the largest Muslim ghettos in India. Scratch a little, and people want to talk. An entire community feels under attack, with many resigned to their newfound fate of being second-class citizens. Rights are negligible, and the sense of representation non-existent. What remains strong is the cry for justice, and the knowledge they will not get it – not in Gujarat. Why? “Because”, explains one elder in Shah Alam, “we pray to Allah. That is our transgression.”

There are the borders everywhere. A patch of road, a wall, a turn across a street corner, a divider in the middle of a road – this is all it takes to polarise and segregate communities throughout Gujarat. Each town and city now has countless borders, forcibly making people conscious of their religious identity. Me Hindu, you Muslim. Or one could look at it differently: the borders on the ground merely reflect and reinforce the polarisation that has already taken place in the minds of ordinary Gujaratis.

Yet nothing prepares you for the certitude on the streets of the other Ahmedabad – in Navrangpura, Vastrapur, MG Road, Judge’s Bungalow Road, Satellite, Vejalpur. Many Gujarati Hindus think they have the answers to some of the most troubling questions of our times. The more subtle would say there is a problem among Muslims. Others argue that Muslims themselves are the problem. They look back fondly at the ‘Toofan’, the 2002 riots, and their reminiscences have a striking thematic unity. The Muslims deserved it. They are all bloody Pakistanis and criminals. If we had more time, we would have wiped them out. See, they are crushed and scared. We taught them a lesson. And now, the world should learn from Gujarat about how to deal with the miyas. The one sentiment that is almost wholly absent is remorse. What remains, 54 months after the pogrom, is an all-pervading sense of arrogance among Hindus in the public sphere. Those who think differently possibly keep silent.

The story of Gujarat as a whole, then, is a tale of pride and prejudice on the one side, victimhood and alienation on the other. In control of this divisive agenda is the fascist government of Narendra Modi, who happily builds on this evolving social reality, and reinforces it. The everyday tragedy of Gujarat, often invisible, is in many ways more telling than the state-sponsored pogroms of 2002. The high degree of alienation among Muslims, the stereotypes and discrimination they face, the fact that a substantial section of society is committed to the Hindutva agenda, the absence of justice and accountability, and the continued secession of the state from its basic constitutional obligations – these are all elements that go into making Gujarat, in the very words of the Hindu Right, its laboratory.

Babu ‘Bajrangi’ Patel
This is happening even as Chief Minister Modi, the principal architect of the 2002 killings, seeks to carve an image for himself as a development leader, and the chaperon of India’s best-governed state. While the former is true – that Modi guided the horrors of 2002 and the subjugation of Muslims in the aftermath – the latter is far from proven. Despite the loud applause that is beginning to be heard in New Delhi and elsewhere, the facts on the ground reveal that Gujarat is neither the embodiment of progress nor of good governance.

Babu’s bomb
If 2002 was an experiment in the Hindutva laboratory, men like Babubhai Rajabhai Patel of the Hindutva outfit Bajrang Dal were in the forefront of conducting it. The short, stocky Babu Bajrangi, as he is popularly known, would pass off as an average middle-class trader. He claims to be a social worker. Sitting in his second-floor office in the Ahmedabad suburb of Naroda, Bajrangi talks about his NGO, Navchetan, which ‘rescues’ Hindu women who have been ‘lured’ into relationships with Muslim men. “In every house today there is a bomb, and that bomb is the woman, who forms the basis of Hindu culture and tradition,” Bajrangi begins. “Parents allow her to go to college, and they start having love affairs, often with Muslims. Women should just be kept at home to save them from the terrible fate of Hindu-Muslim marriages.”

Bajrangi’s Navchetan works to prevent inter-religious love marriages, and if such a wedding has already taken place, it works to break the union. When a marriage between a Hindu woman and Muslim man gets registered in a court, within a few days the marriage documents generally end up on Bajrangi’s desk, ferreted out by functionaries in the lower judiciary. The girl is subsequently kidnapped and sent back home; the boy is taught a lesson. “We beat him in a way that no Muslim will dare to look at Hindu women again. Only last week, we made a Muslim eat his own waste – thrice, in a spoon,” he reveals with barely concealed pride. All this is illegal, Bajrangi concedes, but it is moral. “And anyway, the government is ours,” he continues, turning to look at the clock. “See, I am meeting Modi in a while today.”

One might dismiss Babu Bajrangi as a bombast when he claims proximity to the chief minister, or describes the beating of Muslim boys. But for a man of obvious stature in society he is also accused of burning Muslims alive. As the chief accused in the infamous Naroda Patiya case, one of the worst instances of brutality during the 2002 violence, he is alleged to have led the mob that killed 89 people in the area. It is a burden that rests lightly on Bajrangi’s shoulders. “People say I killed 123 people,” he says. Did you? Bajrangi laughs, “How does it matter? They were Muslims. They had to die. They are dead.”
Evidence of Bajrangi’s complicity was so overwhelming that even a pliable state administration could not save him from an eight-month stint in prison. “They cannot reduce my hatred for Muslims with that, can they? While in jail, I demolished a small mosque that was located in there,” he says with a sly, childlike grin. Bajrangi’s views on what is wrong with Muslims are unabashedly straightforward. “They are all terrorists. Refuse to sing even the national song. Why don’t they just go to Pakistan? Now, our aim is to create a society where we have as little to do with them as possible.”

Bajrangi is now out on bail. But what has allowed a man accused of such a heinous crime to walk and operate freely? Perhaps it is the manner in which the Gujarat government has, since 2002, consistently violated its constitutional obligations to safeguard life and liberty and provide justice.

Juhapura, Ahmedabad’s largest ghetto
After there was fire in a train compartment carrying Hindutva activists on the morning of 27 February 2002 at the Godhra railway station, killing 59 people, Narendra Modi decided to unleash a reign of terror against the state’s Muslims as a ‘reaction’. The cause of the fire is still not certain, though a central government enquiry committee has reported that it was accidental, and not the result of a conspiracy. In a vulnerable political position, and unsure of future electoral prospects, Modi felt this was the right spark to ignite communal passions through the state, and blamed the incident on ‘Muslims’. He instructed senior officers to let the Hindus express their anger – he was essentially asking for the rioters to be allowed a free hand. Modi’s state machinery and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) jointly planned the attacks, with the police themselves in many places firing on the victims rather than the rioters.

The state’s support to the perpetrators of the pogrom has continued through the four-and-a-half-years since the carnage. Out of the 4252 cases registered in connection with the violence that gripped Gujarat in February, March and April of 2002, the files for more than 2100 were closed without the filing of chargesheets. A few senior police officers have revealed the manner in which the state subverted justice at every stage – by distorting and manipulating complaints at the police station, assigning investigations to the very officers accused of assisting in massacres, and allowing the accused free rein to coerce witnesses into changing statements. With several public prosecutors simultaneously in the ranks – or even the leadership – of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and its affiliates, the prosecution itself silently assisted in getting approval for bail applications. 345 cases have been decided so far, with convictions in only 13 of those cases.

After a severe indictment of the Gandhinagar state government by the National Human Rights Commission, the Supreme Court of India passed a landmark decision in 2004, ordering re-examination by a high-level, state-appointed committee of the decision to close more than 2000 cases. The court also ordered the transfer of investigation from the state police to the Central Bureau of Investigation in select cases, and moved two cases out of Gujarat entirely. Muslims and secular groups are clinging on to these small victories as their last hopes for justice.

And what of the social and economic condition of the victims? The state government’s own conservative figures put the total loss of property at INR 6.9 billion. The government has distributed INR 563 million to the affected persons, which makes up about nine percent of the calculated damage. At the peak of the riots, more than 150,000 people were in relief camps, which were summarily shut down by the government after four months. With the state washing its hands of any rehabilitation for the affected, those who could not return home have had to live in resettled colonies constructed by community organisations. Almost 10,000 families are said to remain internally displaced in Gujarat.

Pathological normalcy
Shakeel Ahmed heads the legal cell of the Islamic Relief Committee, an

offshoot of the Jamaat-e-Islami (JeI), a conservative Muslim organisation. A well-read man who can hold forth as easily on Islamic precepts as on Indian sociology, Ahmed stares incredulously when asked about relief and justice. “It would be so foolish to expect it from the state!” he exclaims. “This was not a riot; it was a systematically planned pogrom. If the accused get prosecuted and if relief is provided, then their entire political purpose will be defeated.” Ahmed’s suggestion is confirmed from a diametrically opposite direction, that of a senior Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) member of Parliament from Gujarat: “Compensation, relief, regret – these are meaningless issues. We wanted to crush them, and we crushed them. And most Hindus are with us, as was clear from the subsequent elections. Forget about this now.” For a man of vehement convictions, it was nevertheless interesting that the MP requested anonymity. He must still fear something.

Memory is a convenient, subjective tool. While Hindu extremists tell anyone who raises uncomfortable questions about the killings to ‘move on’, they do not mind evoking the Toofan of 2002 in the most minute detail in order to get the Muslims to ‘behave themselves’. They also evoke the butchery as a ‘feel-good’ factor among themselves. The continuous discrimination against Muslims is part of the same strategy – and it is not subtle in the least. Explains Ahmedabad-based sociologist Shiv Vishvanathan: “What happened in Gujarat was a mini Rwanda: your neighbour raped you; people killed between 9 and 6 and went home singing. It was like a football match where the Hindus won. There remains festivity around it, the state denies victimhood, and there is no erasure.” State acquiescence and connivance can only partially explain such an overriding phenomenon of exclusion.

Indeed, in the Gujarat of today, among the Hindus it is considered normal to harbour and exhibit hatred for the Muslims. To those who may ask how is it possible to paint an entire state of a population of more than 50 million with such a broad brushstroke, this point is exactly what makes the evolving Gujarat of today different from all other areas where excesses have happened in Southasia. Here, the discrimination against Muslims has the state administration’s support without even a fig-leaf of political correctness, as well as broad-based agreement on this matter among large sections of the Hindu masses. Talk to the common Hindu person on the street, from the neighbourhood guard to the autorickshaw-wallah to the shopkeeper, and the refrain is alarmingly deafening: Muslims are goondas, always doing illegal things. See, they are now bombing people everywhere. The pathological has become the normal. That is what makes societal evolution in Gujarat unique in India – and exceptionally lethal.

As elsewhere in India and Southasia, polarisation has always existed in Gujarati society. Since time immemorial, Dalits have not dared to stay inside the village core. Muslims and the intermediate and backward castes have been a bit more advantaged, but have still been kept away from the privileges of the Hindu upper castes. But even if the notion of a composite culture is at times over-romanticised, there was at one time an undeniably pluralist culture in Gujarat. In part,
this stemmed from its coastal location and trade-based economy, which inevitably forced diverse communities together for mutual economic advantage.

Achyut Yagnik, influential author of an authoritative book on modern Gujarat, believes that communal polarisation between Hindus and Muslims began after the 1969 riots in Ahmedabad, and accelerated after the rath yatras and political mobilisation by Hindutva forces in the early 1990s.

If some had hoped that the national and international condemnation would make Gujarat’s communal rabble-rousers (with Modi as their cheerleader) pull back from their extremist agenda, this has not happened. In fact, the polarisation has intensified across the state in the last four-and-half years. If it was difficult before the riots for a Muslim to find a house to rent in Hindu areas, it is now impossible. Sophia Khan would know. A leading women’s activist in Ahmedabad, she has had to undergo significant changes in her personal and professional life since 2002. To begin with, the polarised atmosphere in the city led Khan to shift her residence to Juhapura, the city’s large Muslim area, although her office remained in the upmarket Hindu locality of Narayanpura.

Sophia’s identity had remained a secret in Narayanpura because the office had been rented in the name of a Hindu trustee of the NGO she runs. A month ago, when neighbours in her office complex came to know of Khan’s faith, she was asked immediately to pack up and depart. She tried to put up a fight, but gave up in the face of constant harassment. “Imagine, they were not even willing to let me use the lift,” she says. Khan moved her office to a flat in Juhapura, but with that came a new complication. A Hindu employee who was working with Khan was pressured by her family to resign, for they did not approve of her going to a Muslim area. She is grim as she intones: “My house is in a Muslim area. My office is here now. My only Hindu employee is resigning, and my work revolves around Muslims. This is exactly how they want to push an entire community into a corner.”

Vis-a-Vis
All over, people are beginning to shift to areas in which they are a part of the majority. M T Kazi is a young executive with F D Society, a Muslim trust that runs educational institutions. “Everyone is insecure,” he says. “What if a riot breaks out again? Both Hindus and Muslims would prefer to be in areas where they are surrounded by their own kind. That way, the possibility of attack is reduced.” But the ramifications of such a trend can be drastic, says Shakeel Ahmed of JeI: “Social polarisation inevitably leads to some kind of economic polarisation. And this will have a more pronounced impact on the Muslim minority, because we are too small to create a self-sufficient unit.”

It is not even that the mental and physical dislocation of Muslims is an urban phenomenon, as many think. The rural areas in north and central Gujarat, in particular, are presently seeing a spurt in polarisation. There are 225 talukas in Gujarat, the local-level administrative divisions that encompass about 70-80 villages each. Before the riots, there was a Muslim majority in five to ten villages per taluka, a smattering of Muslims in another 40 percent, and the rest almost completely non-Muslim. “Now, those five villages which had a Muslim majority have become concentration camps, especially in villages in the Panchmahal district,” explains Gagan Sethi, who runs Jan Vikas, an NGO working with Muslims. “Muslims in the surrounding area, who feel insecure or have been pushed out of their own places, come to these villages.” Such rural ghettoisation is also problematic because it allows for the possibility of easy monitoring of Muslims by the state agencies, adding to the tensions within the community.

In the cities and towns, the segregation of residential locations has sharply reduced shared spaces at all levels. A visible example is the decline in the number of schools that have a fair mix of Hindu and Muslim students. Children generally attend schools that are close by, which means that these institutions are increasingly segregated. With the newfound sense of insecurity, parents feel even more strongly about sending their kids to schools with more of “our people”. Some reports also suggest the existence of discrimination along religious lines in admission to elite schools. This troubles concerned citizens, who are worried that children may graduate from high school without having made a single lasting friendship with someone belonging to another community. The absence of contact since childhood can only accelerate the evolution of Gujarat as ‘another country’, where Hindus and Muslims live starkly separate lives and where intolerance becomes the defining characteristic.

Silent underclass
The 2002 riots were a tragic tale of visible violence, under the glare of the national media, which provoked outrage. But Gujarat 2006 is the story of invisible violence – systematic and subtle, at the state and social levels. Prejudice against the Muslims grows by the day.

Salimbhai Musabhai Patel is happy he can introduce himself as S M Patel – at least it gets him an appointment with bankers. “People think I am Hindu that way,” he says. A young entrepreneur, he runs the Patel Finance Company, with offices in Ahmedabad and Bharuch. “But that is as far as my initials can get me,” Patel continues with a resigned smile. “Once they know I am Muslim, they treat me like dirt. Forget about getting a loan.”

It is dusk, and Patel is standing with a group of other Muslim men on ‘their side’ of Mirzapur in Ahmedabad. Patel’s comment unleashes a torrent of similar complaints from the others gathered. We have no hope of getting a job in Gujarat. Government service is impossible. If we get in, we are relegated to the lowest level. The courts are against us. Muslim vendors are harassed, while Hindus get away with crimes. Even private companies prefer Hindus. The ordinary folk think all of us are Pakistanis. The riots are long over, goes the common refrain, and sure we are willing to ‘move on’. But what do we do about the daily injustice? They want to create a society in which we just don’t matter.

This perception among Muslims, of being disadvantaged because of their faith, seems based on the hard reality of daily experience. Being Muslim in Gujarat is now a recipe for continuous harassment if you want to be anything but a member of the silent underclass. Activist Sophia Khan had to wage a struggle to get a phone connection from the local Tata branch, because the company had black-listed certain areas. Banks have similar systems for loan applications. Most Hindu businessmen would rather not employ Muslims, due to a combination of personal prejudice and pressure from the VHP.
For its part, the government ensures that Muslims are deprived of the most basic of amenities. Juhapura has a population of more than 300,000, with a large middle-class base. Yet it does not have a single bank, its former primary health centre was shifted to a Hindu area, and public bus transport routes now take a detour around the locality. Muslims constitute less than five percent of the high-level officers in the state’s police force, and even those officials who serve are shunted to marginal posts.

Baroda: guarding a deserted Muslim street durng Ganesh Visarjan
Yagnik points to how the two influential centres – the bureaucracy and local power structures – have been saffronised in the recent past. Muslims have been essentially ousted from local Panchayats, cooperatives, agrarian produce markets, government schemes and other services. There are more than 20 sub-communities among Muslims categorised as OBCs (‘other backward classes’) in Gujarat, but they face enormous difficulties in getting the required certificates that would make them eligible for various services. Again and again, it has been revealed how municipal action is deliberately used to communalise an issue so as to hurt and provoke Muslim sentiment, which is then used as a pretext for counter-violence. Recent instances of such provocation include the demolition of a dargah in Baroda in May, and the diversion of a sewage pipe towards a graveyard in Radhanpur in north Gujarat in August.

Schools have become sites for propagating hate, with social science textbooks tailored along ‘Hindutva’ lines. Even public examinations conducted by the state government are framed not to evaluate a student’s competence, but to judge his political preferences vis-à-vis the Hindutva worldview. In early August this year, the Gujarat State Public Service Commission conducted an exam to recruit Ayurvedic medical officers. Among the questions asked: “‘Christians have a right to convert’ – who made such a claim?”, “Which day is observed as ‘Black Day’ by minorities and ‘Victory Day’ by the Sangh Parivar?”, and “Babar, who established the Muslim empire, was a devotee of whom?” (the options were Krishna, Buddha, Shiva and Ram).

There is a point of view sometimes expressed against those who see Gujarat as Armageddon – that there are enough traditional linkages among Hindus and Muslims, despite the strains since 2002. Some will point to the fact that a web of economic relationships still binds the two communities, and they will refer to how Muslims and Hindus interact in a variety of sectors, from firecracker-making to rakhi-weaving to motor vehicle repair, all of them monopolised by the Muslims. Muslims also make the kites that dot the Gujarati sky on the Hindu festival of Makar Sankranti in January. Sheikh Mohammed Yusuf, a kite-maker for the last 32 years, says that the communalisation has not turned away his Hindu customers. “But that’s because only Muslims make kites. Where will they go otherwise?” While there may be advantages in the economic necessity that has Hindus and Muslims at least nodding at each other, it is doubtful that the perfunctory transactions can act as a bridge in a society as divided as Gujarat has become.

Why here? Why Gujarat?
These instances of polarisation and discrimination are not mere aberrations, or restricted to pockets. The trend spreads across class and caste lines through the entire state, though it is relatively more intense in Ahmedabad, Panchmahal and Baroda – the core areas that shape Gujarat’s political discourse. Certainly, there are Hindus who would prefer a society that is not so mired in conflict and mistrust. But what is important, as this reporter found out in his travels through the state in early September, is that this voice is mute. It is the Hindu Right that is setting the agenda for Gujarat, and amidst the extremism the moderate who remains silent becomes irrelevant for his inability to guide events.

AMI VITALE
What led to such a situation? The Hinduisation of Gujarat has surprised many observers: this is a region that had a pluralist culture; the people are driven largely by a mercantile ethos; it did not undergo the troubled Partition experience as intensely as did some other states; and, despite being a border state, it does not have any special reason to harbour intense bitterness towards Pakistan, a fact that could have led to animosity towards Muslims within. Instead, the answer perhaps lies in its political evolution and economic competition.

If the state is now considered the lab of Hindutva, a century ago a British ethnographer is said to have termed the state the ‘laboratory of Indian casteism’. After Gujarat became a state in 1960, carved out from the then state of Bombay, the Brahmans, Vanias and Patidars held sway over the political structure. This hegemony was broken in 1980 with the Congress’s KHAM formula, which encompassed the Kshatriya, Harijan, Adivasi and Muslim. The erstwhile ruling-castes retaliated, initially by instigating caste conflict. But they soon realised that the ‘lower’ castes could not be discarded, and thus began attempting to carve out a broader Hindu coalition where the ‘enemy’ would not be the Dalit, but the Muslim.
Sections of Dalits and Adivasis were slowly co-opted into the Hindutva-guided system, induced with promises of upward mobility and enhanced status, along with other political and economic dividends. The BJP also seemed like an attractive alternative to these groups because, despite voting for the Congress for five long decades, they had little to show in terms of improvement in livelihood. These developments in Gujarat took place at a time when the Hindutva forces were consolidating themselves at a pan-India level through the late 1980s and 1990s.

The significant organisational work put in by the Sangh Parivar in Gujarat over the previous two decades bore fruit, creating a political base for the BJP that spanned across all sections of society. “While we were writing op-ed pieces and organising college protests against communalism, they were distributing millions of leaflets all over and building a base on the ground,” says an introspective Shabnam Hashmi, who runs ANHAD, an NGO that works to build communal harmony. The decline of textile mills, especially in Ahmedabad, destroyed common employment spaces shared by working-class Hindus and Muslims. These changes created an unemployed segment of society looking for a cause, and this provided the foot-soldiers of the Hindutva movement.

There are some other specificities of Gujarati society that made the polarisation easier here than elsewhere. For example, the fact that Gujarati Hindus are publicly and obsessively vegetarian has helped to create a visible marker of difference with the Muslims. First, this creates a social barrier in and of itself, and makes it possible for Hindutva outfits to capitalise on the matter of cow slaughter by Muslims. ‘100 percent vegetarian’ restaurants crowd the market streets of Hindu Ahmedabad, and the very fact that Hindus and Muslims rarely dine together in restaurants drastically reduces the possibilities of social engagement.

Mani Chowk border, Ahmedabad
While the chief agent of the polarisation was the Hindu middle class, it found its natural ally in the Non-Resident Gujarati. This group constitutes an extremely prosperous section of the Indian diaspora overseas, and flushes the RSS and its affiliates with enormous sums of money. Supporting this dynamic have been the various religious sects and preachers who crowd the spiritual market in Gujarat, as well as large and influential sections of the Gujarati-language press.
The trading culture of Gujarat might have created a pluralist, inclusive environment in the past, but the economic advantages of social cohesion seem to have been sacrificed at the altar of Hindutva. In fact, the relative affluence and stability of the economy is one reason why – based on Hindutva propaganda – a large section of the middle class veered towards religious chauvinism. The well-off had another reason to join the Hindutva bandwagon. They saw it as an opportunity to push their Muslim economic competitors into a corner with hate propaganda. Economics played a critical role during the pogrom in 2002, when those Hindus on the rampage were keen to destroy the property of some of their rivals.

It did not help that, unlike some others states of India, Gujarat does not have a tradition of left, Dalit or even progressive student movements – which not only provided space to the Hindutva campaign, but also ensured that there was no culture
of protest.

Muslims constitute around nine percent of the state’s population, but have never had an effective political voice, as they do in UP or Bihar – another reason why the Hindu Right could so easily ride roughshod over their basic rights. The Congress Party, since the 1970s and through the 1980s, had taken the easy way out to win the Muslim vote, by encouraging conservative elements among them; it also protected certain hardened criminals who happened to be Muslims. The Sangh Parivar cleverly used this as a pretext to convince the Hindus in Gujarat that minorities were being appeased at their cost. While Muslims were and are being targeted elsewhere in India as well, these factors have combined to create a rather unique situation in Gujarat.

One-man state
The critical state support for communal extremism following the rise of Narendra Modi, the fact that a large section of Hindu society harbours extremist notions about Muslims, and the absence of an effective political opposition to this discourse makes Gujarat stand out in the broader Indian context. Fortunately, the particular mix of societal factors that have made Gujarat ‘another country’ – while they may exist in small areas elsewhere – do not come together at a statewide level anywhere else. Gujarat has gone into its extremist cocoon willingly and alone, and there is the hope and expectation that no other part of India will follow where Gujarat has gone.

Sauyajya (R) and a friend. Hindutva catches them young.
The elevation of Narendra Modi as chief minister in late 2001 has everything to do with what Gujarat has become. He provided the match to the communal powder-keg that the state had already become. Political psychologist Ashis Nandy (along with Achyut Yagnik) interviewed Modi in 1992, and Nandy has written about how he was left shaken by the experience. Emerging from the meeting, Nandy told Yagnik that Modi met all the criteria of an authoritarian personality, and was a clinical and classic case of a fascist. A decade later, that assessment proved correct, when Modi systematically engineered the carnage against Gujarat’s Muslims.

Faced with the outrage that engulfed India after the Gujarat massacres, rather than take a defensive approach, Narendra Modi has aggressively introduced a potent mixture of Gujarati parochialism and Hindutva to cement his political foundations. His trick has been to construct a four-fold binary – of the insider versus outsider, Gujarat versus Delhi, Gujarati media versus English media, and Hindu versus the ‘pseudo-secularist’. Any criticism can be easily deflected by using this matrix.

While manipulation of the mass mindset may have helped Modi turn vilification to advantage, in intervening elections at the state and local levels the image of the Hindutva ogre is something he has decided he can do without at present. This is because Modi has his vision firmly set on the national BJP leadership, for which he has now to coin a new image for himself – that of a strong, anti-terrorism leader, focused on development and good governance. And this explains the recent brand-building exercise to portray Gujarat as the most developed state in the country.

Gujarat has always been a relatively prosperous state, and for Modi to try to hog credit for the traditional achievements of an entrepreneurial class seems excessive. If anything, Modi can be faulted for not being able to build substantially upon this base.

Economists of varied hues have doubts about the idea of Gujarat as a new economic haven, yet another of Modi’s propositions as he tries to reposition his image. Investment in the state is largely restricted to a few large players pumping in huge amounts of money in capital-intensive units, which have little trickle-down effect. Gujarat has missed out on the new economy, with a weak Information Technology base and few of the outsourcing units that are all the rage in other successful states. In addition, the state’s educational system is in a rut, the crucial local co-operatives are riddled with scams and divisions, and the state is quickly slipping on the human development index scale.

The idea of Modi as a good administrator, too, is a bogey that has its roots in his strong-leader image. In interacting directly with the state’s far-flung hierarchy, he has been accused of undercutting the authority of ministers and legislators alike. Modi can be ruthlessly efficient, but only when he wants to see results in his pet projects. “His is the efficiency of the emergency era. This fear-induced work culture is not sustainable, because it is weakening public institutions. Gujarat has become a one-man state,” says Javed Chowdhury, a former bureaucrat of the Gujarat cadre. The good-management myth was severely bruised with the late-August floods in Surat, which were entirely due to faulty dam-water management by the state administration.

What Modi’s dictatorial style of functioning has done is to create massive dissension within his own party, as well as in the broader Hindutva parivar. But while that may somewhat upset Modi’s own political trajectory, it has had little impact on Gujarat’s communalism. The dissidents are more radically ‘Hindu’ than even Modi. Their differences with him are about power and patronage – not about Hindutva.

One of the reasons the Gujarati political discourse has been so completely captured by the saffron agenda is the abject political and ideological surrender of the Congress party. Flirting with a variety of soft Hindutva itself, the party’s Gujarat unit has decided not to take on Modi’s fascist state directly. Congress workers, after all, were also part of the marauding mobs in 2002, and even today the party refuses to take up issues of discrimination against Muslims publicly. This has left Muslims despondent, but they have little choice. Usmanbhai Sheikh, a Muslim activist in Ahmedabad, explains: “Congress treats us like its mistress, knowing we cannot turn elsewhere.”

But the Modi government is not invincible. If the Congress is able to put together a proactive, secular agenda, and consolidate an alliance between Dalits, Adivasis and Muslims, it has a good chance of ousting the chief minister and his party, and of reversing his divisive agenda. At the peak of polarisation during the 2002 assembly elections, after all, more than 50 percent of the population voted against Modi – a figure that would have to have included a substantial number of Hindus. A change in Gujarat’s government would come as some relief, for the state would not be as active in engineering everyday hatred. But even if the Congress party state unit were to muster the energy to take on Modi, it is doubtful that this alone would help to restore a social fabric that has been left in tatters. The communalism in Gujarat has not only become deeply entrenched, it has become bolted to the plank of fascism. Politics-as-usual can hardly be the panacea; what is needed is a social movement for Gujarat to cleanse itself.

Modified society
It is early September. Baroda is tense. Its Muslims are scared. It is the last day of the Ganesh festival, when Hindus will take part in large processions before immersing their idols. Trouble is anticipated. Only four months ago, the demolition of a dargah had triggered riots here. Security has been beefed up across the city – the state government does not want another blemish on its record, at least not now.

Yusuf Sheikh is sitting in his house in Tandalja – also derisively called ‘mini-Pakistan’ by local Hindus, because of its Muslim majority. Worried about what might happen, he explains the undercurrent of tension: “If Muslims are out in these areas where processions are being taken out, there is a high possibility that a VHP person will throw a stone at some idol, and blame it on us. Muslims will then be called the instigators and there will be riots.” The city’s Muslims have shut their shops, stocked up on supplies and huddled down inside their homes.

Sheikh is a ground-level political activist in Baroda. An officer of the central government’s Intelligence Bureau, based in Baroda, pays him a visit to get a sense of the Muslim mood. Sheikh’s request to him is to keep an eye on the younger elements in the Ganesh processions. The intelligence official is fairly confident that no incident would occur today. “The state government is determined not to allow violence.” he says. The government’s decision could have to do with the fact that with no elections around the corner, and Modi seeking to carve a new image, allowing a riot at present would not be politically astute. On the broader communal situation, the officer has a ‘realistic’ take: “It is ok. See, in UP, Mulayam Yadav supports Muslims, and so Hindutva-wallahs have no say. Here it is Hindu rule. So it is the Muslims who are down.”
‘Afraid’ might better capture the sentiment of Muslims, for the Hindus in Baroda do not seem to be merely celebrating a religious festival. Trucks and minivans carry huge idols, followed by hordes of people. Blaring music resonates from all corners, and those gathered dance aggressively to the tune of hit Bollywood composer Himesh Reshammiya. That in itself would be the nature of a Hindu festival anywhere else in India. But here, the saffron flags seamlessly merge with the Indian tricolour. Harshad, an ecstatic-looking 18-year-old, explains: “We are Hindus. And Hindus are Indians. In our festivals, you will see the Indian flag also.”

In Baroda in Modi’s Gujarat, the Ganesh festival is treated – and exploited – not as a cultural but as a nationalist event. Those excluded accept their status quietly. Silence and deserted streets greet an observer in Muslim areas of the city. Here, there is a curfew-like atmosphere. A few local elders stand outside to ensure that no trouble ensues, while state police guard the city’s invisible borders. But while the day of Ganesh might be one when insecurity among Gujarati Muslims comes forth most visibly, they remain fearful, helpless and alienated throughout the year. We don’t have anyone. This is not our government. Who do we turn to?

But this is not a saga only of victimhood. When a community is pushed into a corner, there are bound to be consequences. Frustrated youngsters will inevitably react one way or the other. The easiest is to leave the state, but that would entail entering as a member of an underclass in an alien society in another Indian state, and few of the poorly-skilled and -educated Muslim youth would venture forth under such circumstances. Much more likely is that some will take matters into their own hands, to fight the oppression that is an all-pervading reality, or follow the siren call of militant leaders. Where will Narendra Modi be to take the blame when the exclusion of yesterday and today invites the conflagration of tomorrow?
The response of the richer Muslims, who also have nowhere else to turn, has been to try and strike up a deal with the state government. Those belonging to the Bohra and Khoja communities, for example, are trying see if they cannot run their businesses unhindered in return for offering their political support to Modi. But the most positive response would seem to be an emphasis on mainstream, modern education among Muslims as a means to responding to the Modi challenge. Indeed, Muslims across class and sectarian lines have turned to education as a passport to a self-confident future. “There is a realisation that we must have more skills and make ourselves more useful. That is the only way out,” says M T Kazi of the F D Education Society.

The Gujarati Muslim is realising the importance of education, of learning the language of rights, of asserting his or her presence in the marketplace. But there will remain the question of whether the larger ‘Modified’ society is willing to accommodate this pool of people when it is ready. And that is why there has been another simultaneous trend in the opposing direction, marked by the increase in the influence of conservative Muslim organisations. “They are all going into the laps of mullahs. Imagine what will happen if all these people get radicalised,” says Mahesh Langa, an Ahmedabad journalist worried about the end result of what Modi and his ilk have wrought. The continued persecution, direct and indirect, makes it fairly easy for these outfits to expand their influence among Muslims.

When this reporter, with his longish beard, walked into an elite government colony in Ahmedabad to meet a senior official, three children suddenly got off their bicycles. One screamed aloud, “Terrorist!” Why? “Because you are a Mussalman,” he responded. So? “All Muslims are terrorists. My father is a judge. He will call you terrorist in court.” Really? “Yes. Now get out of here. This is a Hindu area!” Sauyajya is 12 years old and has not met a single Muslim in his life. No one knows how many Sauyajyas are in the making in Gujarat.

No disrespect to the French, but I hope Paris burns while London watches.

My question in this whole mess is, are we going to let the jihazi take over France? I know how some of you here feel about France but I can’t seem to bring myself to turn my back on them completely. They did after all assist us in our battle for Independence at substantial expense to them. I am however only one and will go with the majority decision on this. If we are going to let them slip away, what are we going to do about our brave fighting men who are still buried there? Surely we won’t leave them there for the jihazi to dig up and desecrate. Surely we won’t allow them to rip out the headstones of those heroes and turn them into urinals? I find it interesting that America and England were once at war, with the French standing back and trying to figure out what to do. Now America and England stand back, together, and wonder about the French. My how things change.

With disrespect to the French, I hope Paris burns while the whole world watches.

Why does this act of war not create a military response by the French government? I have said it before: Chirac is a traitor and if the French ever survive the agressions of the Muslims, he should be tried as a criminal.

A modest proposal:

Shut off electric power, water and natural gas utilities to the autonomous neighborhoods. Inform the community leaders that these services will remain turned off until the intifada ends and the leaders are handed over to the authorities.

Set up checkpoints at every entrance to the autonomous neighborhoods. Inspect the papers of every person leaving or entering. Arrest and deport all person found to be "out of status".

These regions have already effectively ceased to be part of France. If Muslims residing in France want their own West Bank/Gazas, the French authorites should respond accordingly.

It's ugly, but I see no alternative.

I have no sympathy for the French. Instant karma is a b*tch isn't it, and what you sow, you reap. France has provided weapons and been involved with Saddam. They have oppossed the US any chance they could. You lie down with dogs you wake up with not only fleas but disease. They have always arrogantly viewed themseles as a more civilized branch of humanity then their backwrad neighbors across the pond. Let them eat cake, when the cake runs out let them eat falafel. Viva le France' .One would think after WWII these frogs would have gained some wisdom and humilitity. They have gotten dumber and more arrogant.

Arm the police with video and cameras, anyone I.D.ed as involved in attacks on the police should be deported, and have the state funded support stopped.

France, come back to us and the world.

Shyamsunder

What are muslims (traitors to their fore-fathers) doing in India in the first place

Not surprisingly, Muslim neighborhoods are becoming autonomous zones, with police and government workers too scared to enter.

Too scared because it's organic. Posing as a community, a culture, it's actually a military operation, when it's not a government agency or a legal system or a religion.

If it's a military, then send the French Army.

If it's a culture, then send in the police but with orders to enforce the law every bit as much as would be done to white persons running chaotic violence their neighborhood.

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

Chameleons are organic. Always changing colors.

Give them a choice, death or deportation. They don't get to stay. Do not pass GO, do not collect your next welfare handout from the government. Give them 24 hours to pack up and report to a deportation center or they will be executed. Don't waste taxpayer's money putting them in jails. Bulldoze the projects and start all over again building new suburbs

Well, I have mixed emotions about it all. On the one hand I think the French have been so duplicitous and anti-American that I like to see them being slapped around a little.

On the other hand, the people doing the slapping are muslims, who should be denied that pleasure on general principles.

And on the third hand, I would certainly like to see those beautiful girls at the Lido a few more times before the place is burned down.

Even the NAZI army kept the Lido open, and did so for their entire occupation of Paris. I don't think the muslims would do that. Those poor girls won't stand a chance.

The NAZI's were better to the French than the muslims will EVER be.

Next they will declare sharia in these "autonomous" areas!

The police union is demanding the Interior Ministry supply officers with armored cars.

What is it with the French? Why are they hopelessly, terminally defensive when offense is called for? 2500 officers injured so far this year and the police union only wants armored cars for their defense when what they really should be requesting are Bradley Fighting Vehicles and SWAT teams armed to the teeth to END the violence, not tolerate and prolong it.

But ze French are so much more evolved and superior than the rest of us, I suppose I'm simply too barbaric to understand the inspired reasoning of; "Just wait it out, and eventually, the poor, underprivlidged, misunderstood, youth will eventually stop the violence on their own."

Pathetic...the French deserve all they reap.

Posted by: Shyamsunder

After there was fire in a train compartment carrying Hindutva activists on the morning of 27 February 2002 at the Godhra railway station, killing 59 people, Narendra Modi decided to unleash a reign of terror against the state’s Muslims as a ‘reaction’. The cause of the fire is still not certain, though a central government enquiry committee has reported that it was accidental, and not the result of a conspiracy

With all your clip/paste/spam you failed to give the cause of what is happening and and throw the blame onto Narendra Modi

Also, if anyone has blood on there hand from Gujurat it would be Maulana Hussain Umarji. This is the infamous-but-not-so-famous man who engineered the torching of the Sabarmati express, in which 53 women and children — Hindu pilgrims — were burned alive. If anyone had blood on his hands from Ayodhya, it’s Babar, who destroyed at will the birthplace of Shree Ram, 7th Avatar of Lord Vishnu, along with countless and countless other temples and Buddhist and Jaina monasteries.

Did Godhra town, in the desolate tribal belt of eastern Gujarat, witness a pre-planned terror attack funded by foreigners on February 27 last year? A year after the incineration of 59 passengers aboard bogie S6 of the Sabarmati Express train, the investigators seem confident of unveiling the "conspiracy" behind the ghastly act. The Special Investigation Team (SIT) of the Gujarat Police recently moved the sessions court in Godhra to invoke provisions of Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) against all 123 accused in the case, including seven who are out on bail.

The investigations had come a full circle after the February 6 arrest of Maulana Hussein Umarji, the most influential Muslim from Godhra and the leader of the Deobandi-Tablighi Jamaat. The police say Umarji, 55, was the prime conspirator and financier of the 'premeditated' crime.

http://www.the-week.com/23mar09/events1.htm

So to get back on topic may-be the French have a lot to learn from Narendra Modi,and adapt to how the Hindus are treating the muslims.

Dhimmisoftheworldunite (DIOTWU) has some good suggestions.

He knows how to lay a siege. And the French have to do this before it is done unto them.

Shutting off the water is the key. (NOTE: France uses more water per capita than any nation except the United States.) Without water, the toilets won't flush. A few people are going to start bringing in water in bottles and buckets. That's OK. It keeps the boys occupied and uses up some of their energy. Who knows? Maybe they will be so busy that they will not notice that garbage collection and regular telephone service have been stopped, too.

After a few days of this, if the problem is still going on, it's time to shut off the power. This blacks out the televisions and radios. Most importantly it stops the elevators. This makes carrying water much harder, and lets them see that you can ratchet the system. After about twelve hours, their cellphones start shutting down from battery drain. Lack of communication isolates one building from another, and interferes with communications even between floors.

The lack of electricity stops refrigeration, which can adversely affect infants and the elderly, but, Oh Well!! After two days, all perishable food has spoiled and, coupled with those full toilets, mohammad's apartment is smelling pretty bad. Home will never be the same. He will have beaten his wife at least twice by now. By this point in time, at least 25% of the women of childbearing age will have begun to menstruate, and this discomfort and inconvenience will be an additional burden on frayed nerves. If the women are packed in close proximity (as is known from those kept captive on hijacked aircraft for days on end), the women will begin to cycle together, en masse, but I do not have any data on how densely populated they must be to exhibit this effect.

Shutting off the gas is problematic, because many older buildings rely on bottled propane. Even for those buildings with piped gas, having to later re-light hundreds of pilot lights in each building is dangerous and costly. It's probably best to leave the gas alone.

We had some race riots back in the late 1960's. Some cities were basicaly war zones. Texas was almost completely spared, but few understand why. I became a police commissioner a few years later and learned some of what went on. First, the state police intercepted the organizers who were coming in from other states. We set up road blocks and "talked" to out-of-state drivers in about "safety conditions" and "polite driving habits" and advising them of the lack of accomodations, etc. They made other vacation plans, deciding that Texas was too hot at that time of year.

And the concentration camps. Well, we didn't call them that. Of course not. But there wasn't one jurisdiction out of twenty that had enough jail space to handle arrestees from even one sweep through a good-sized riot. The French have this problem already.

No. Most jurisdictions had to be creative. The community where I lived very, very quietly contracted with a local lumber yard. That was the only place with a HIGH FENCE ALREADY CONSTRUCTED. Fences take time to build, so we found an existing one. Plans were made to move some lumber, and Voila' we had a concentration camp. I think it already had barbed wire at the top of the chain-link fence. The yard also had some great weatherproof floodlights, which are absolutely necessary for effective containment of prisoners. A few officers with shotguns could have contained twelve hundred prisoners. A portable metal building would have been set up for prisoner identification and processing.

Fenced tennis courts work well, too.

Oh, for the good old days!

Have a nice day, Pierre!!

Shiva, the Himalmag article is from a commie site
I was just posting this here to show how the Modi model defeats islamism

The only good point is that now western countries can realize that what this 'minority' has been doing in other non western countries. And my only advice to French people (I doubt there is any reading this site) and westerner is this that, it is going to be tough, tough, tough fighting these. And do not live under the illusion that vicotry will come easily, it will not definitely come that way, and it may not come at all.

Shyamsunder

Thanks for the link.

Setting aside the pro-Muslim aspect of the article, what is more important is the aftermath of having large numbers of Muslims in any non-Muslim society. Muslims like to live in their own neighbourhoods, and this we see all over the West, even though there was never any necessity for Muslims to do so. Then the Intifda starts.

Slowly the native population becomes restive. Then there are the bomb outrages, and eventually the natives get riled enough to take rough and ready action. The Muslims then immediately go into victim mode, trying to elicit as much sympathy from the Liberal and Marxist parts of society. This is the scenario we see in Gujerat and are seeing in France, Europe, and soon, in the US as well.

Coming back home.
It is not for us to tell Muslims in the West, what to wear, or what is acceptable as regards homosexuality or other issues. Muslims believe what they believe, as their religion tells them to and have no real choice in the matter. But we do have the right to tell them to take their attitudes and go where such attitudes are acceptable. In other words what Peter Costello and John Howard have said. It must be time soon enough, that such words are not just words but policy. This should be done in a humane manner, with financial assistance and over time.

As much as I hate to see this happen, there is poetic justice in that Iraq Chirac is one of the morons who brought us the European-Arab Dialog, one of the most disastrous public policies in world history.

As much as some hate him, and with some justification, Jean-Marie Le Pen called it.

610 * 623 * 732 * 1066 * 1215 * 1453 * 1492 * 1683 * 1928 * 1938 * 1948 * 1996 * 2001

When they take over France, 20 or 30 yrs from now, what will happen to the treasures housed in the Louvre?

Chirac has done much more damage to france than muslims have. He is a role model to them.

Pagen we will win because we simply have to just like our grandfathers did,the Japs wanted to die they loved death but we still prevailed and yes it will be a tough fight but it will be eaiser than the rubbish in Iraq and afganistan where we have to watch what we do because it may not look good on CNN.

there will be no rules.

From another commie site
Hindu landlords now refuse to rent to muslims

http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2006/08/no_entry_for_na.html

ANANYA SENGUPTA

Mumbai, July 27: Working with one of the country’s top news channels, Nafisa Islam thought she knew her city. But nothing in her professional experience had prepared her for the prospective landlord’s reaction.

“It was just after the train blasts. They were educated people with a nice home in Kandivli, which I really liked. But they rejected me outright as soon as they heard my name. Even my identity card didn’t convince them,” Nafisa said.

“How can we be blamed for the actions of a small fraction within our community? Now I have rented a house in Bandra that costs me double what I had in mind. But what can I do, I don’t want to be treated like that again.”

“This isn’t new. Since the 1993 blasts, people in Mumbai have been averse to renting their homes out to Muslims,” said Nasir, a broker who operates in Malad in suburban Mumbai.

“It’s very difficult for us to arrange houses on rent for Muslim clients. Even if they want to buy a property, there are problems with the builders. The situation has worsened since the train blasts and nothing we say convinces the owners now.”

When Muslims approach brokers, they are usually taken to Muslim-dominated areas such as Malvani, Mahim and Jogeshwari. Among upwardly mobile Muslims, Malad, Kandivli and Borivli seem popular choices. There are also pockets in upscale Andheri, such as Millatnagar and Yari Road, where people from the community can get houses, but they are not first choices as they are far from the Andheri railway station.

“We can’t take a risk. If anything happens, both the landlord and police look for the agents. So, I don’t take on Muslim clients without a good reference,” said Narendra, who makes it a point to check up on his clients.

The problem is worst for the hundreds of young men and women who come down to the city on their first jobs or internship.

“I wanted to rent a flat with two Hindu college friends. A broker showed us a couple of flats, but we had to stay at a friend’s house because of the blasts. Later, when we started looking again, we were refused because I was a Muslim,” said Sameera Jafri, an intern with a reputable company.

“When I said we would draw up the contract in the names of my friends, they said they still couldn’t let out the house because I would be staying with them.”

Most agents say the situation is worse than it has ever been. “No Hindu landlord in the city will entertain a Muslim tenant. They don’t consider it even if the house is to be taken on company lease,” said Rohit Gangwani who has been a broker since 1995.

“When Muslim clients approach us, they too tell us to make sure the landlord knows they are Muslims. They say, ‘We don’t want any hassles later on’. There’s no point trying to convince anyone now. Both parties have accepted the situation, and after the 7/11 blasts, it’s as bad as it could get.”

About the deportations: is there any precedent for deporting French citizens, i.e. those born in France to immigrant parents? I understand that they are a big part of the problem.

Also, I saw a French documentary on a day in court with a famous judge. She ordered one man to leave the country, but doing so was entirely up to his own devices: it seems that French law doesn't allow for the government to grab people and physically deport them, they have to deport themselves. Not much of a method...

I think we need an " Operation Catapult" on France again, except this time for their nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, we have no one with the balls of Winston Churchill to save the world this time.

Don't you love how the perpetrators are still called "protesters" in many media outlets?
They're not RIOTING, they're merely protesting.

"The French Interior Ministry has acknowledged the Muslim uprising. The ministry said more than 2,500 police officers have been injured in 2006. This amounts to at least 14 officers each day."

Actually it amounts to about 7 officers injured each day, but that's still 7 officers per day too many.

Shyamsunder

SORRY

I was a bit confused as to where you stood,as the clips where very pro-islamic

Regards

Shiva