Women need only "cover their head and a little of their face." There now, don't you feel better?
"Islam against Talibani veil: Sadiq," by M Hasan in the Hindustan Times:
SENIOR VICE-CHAIRMAN of the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) and renowned Islamic scholar Dr Kalbe Sadiq today announced that Islam was against ‘Talibani Purdah (rigid purdah system imposed by the Taliban in Afghanistan)’.Coming to the rescue of film star Shabana Azmi over her statement on ‘purdah’ (veil), Dr Sadiq said Shabana was right in her interpretation of veil in Islam, as Islam never talked about the purdah system as prevalent in Afghanistan.
While mullahs have been trying to hound out Shabana for her comment that there was no Quranic injunction about the present form of veil, Dr Sadiq said, “There is no mention of Talibani ‘purdah’ in the holy book.”
Dr Sadiq said while dealing with the issue, the Quran had only said that women should cover their head and a little of their face. He said there was no need to cover the whole face.
Actually, this is all the Qur'an says about it. It has been variously interpreted, although most scholars agree that it does involve a head covering: "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss" (24:31).
Is there an 'Islamic scholar', that is a 'scholar' of Islam who is also Muslim, that media (I mean almost any media) would not characterize as 'renowned' or 'respected'?
Boy, talk about splitting hairs! This would be totally laughable if not for the fact that people will end up dead from arguments over this kind of trivial detail. Even if all the infidels vanished overnight these peaceful ones will still be killing-only it will be each other and over trifling matters such as these.
In the Indian context, Shias are more progressive than the Sunnis
Shias tend to educate their women
Kalbe Sadiq is a Shia cleric and is considered a progressive mullah
Kalbe Sadiq even asked for muslims to do family planning and stop producing too many kids
The Sunni mullahs hate him
The Sunni mullahs are Deobandis
The Deoband Seminary near Delhi is the spiritual headquarters of the Taliban
the shia produced the islamic republic of iran and hezbollah
there is no hope in islam, even the "best" part of it, it's still a menace.
OK, the Quran says one thing, but then Ibrahim Desai quotes from SURAH AL-AHZAAB – VERSE 59:
‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way)…’
Desai also cites this: Ibn Ábbaas states that the Muslim women are ordered to cover their head and faces with outer garments except for one eye.’
If Muslims are obliged to obey the Sunnah as well as the Quran, what is going on? Is a full face covering required or not?
Shia vs Sunni
In Shia islam, women are allowed to be educated
Women in Iran have more rights than in Saudi Arabia
It is Hezbollah vs Taliban
and Hezbollah is the lesser evil
It is Hezbollah vs Taliban
and Hezbollah is the lesser evil
Posted by: Shyamsunder
The key word being “EVIL”
Lesser evil is like sort of a demon. Evil is Evil!
Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way)…
Stumbling, stupid, stupid ,stupid.
Too bad they can't just put the woman's privates in their pockets and keep them. It makes as much sense. The whole culture is obsessed with a womans' parts. .
islamsforlosers stated:
Just one example of how correct you are:
Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress
"...the shame of sex" (24:31)
Well! There you have it. If that short and well-hidden little phrase doesn't tell one all that one needs to know about the attitude of moslems to being human - to being the human animal on this planet - then I don't know what will.
There is no shame in sex. If you are a believer in a more rational religion than islam then you will know that God gave us the impetus of sex and its hugely pleasurable - sometimes risible - expression in order to joyfully procreate future generations and to cement deep and abiding relationships between two individuals. If you are not a believer in any religion then you will still acknowledge that the pleasure of sex encourages us to procreate the future members of our race and you will acknowledge that it cements together two individuals in a loving compact. Need I rehearse all the arguments here? I think that I need not for the average reader and poster on JW/DW can fill in all the gaps for him/herself.
I am more interested in what that one trite, idiotic, loathsome little phrase says about the islamic mindset. Can you imagine it, an entire religion that is ashamed of sex, ashamed of the act of love, ashamed of the act of procreation, ashamed of the pleasure that God (or evolution, depending upon your point of view) saw fit to endow this act with.
Does that one tiny phrase not explain why moslem males seek to destroy female freedoms. Of course it does. They are ashamed of the pleasure of sex, of sex itself, and therefore they project onto the female the responsibility for their own God-given carnality. Does that one revolting little phrase not explain why moslem females acquiesce in the charade. Of course it does. They too are ashamed of their own bodies and the desires that they engender in the male.
Ashamed, mark you, of our God-given carnality, of our God-given pleasure in procreation, of our God-given pleasure in cementing our unions. It might be that that one little, revolting, abnormal, psychologically aberrant phrase is responsible for the whole, the total, moslem stupidity with which we civilised peoples are now confronted. For if one is ashamed of one of the most basic necessities imposed by God (or evolution) upon us how can you possibly have a healthy approach to all else that is human?
Dominic.
What a bore the whole thing is.
Hugh/
Mes excuses. "Le secret d'ennuyer est ... de tout dire.
Dominic.
Having chosen to duck taking on the ummah in India, while taking free potshots at Hindu activists at the same time, Shabana Azmi is someone who deserves little to no support. Having gotten to where she is, she's now up to making up Islamic scripture as she goes along. However, what her Mullah critics said isn't tough to verify, leading one to wonder whether Azmi read these portions of the Quran, or are Muslimah's explicitly forbidden from reading them?
I scoured Islamic websites like Islam-online.net, and in their Hadith page, stumbled upon this al-Muhaddith search engine. There, I entered 3 terms that one might expect to find - 'jilbab', 'niqab', 'hijab' and 'burkha' (Don't use 'veil', since that throws up results about covering ones soul). This is what I found:
So I decided to look up 33:59; here it is:So in addition to Q24:31, I'd add Q33:59 as well. Indian Muslims who are making blank claims don't have a leg to stand on, and should either put up or shut up. Wear the burkha, and attract the ridicule that it richly deserves, or else, shed the burkha, and Islam with it, and behave like other normal Indians - be they Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, et al.
Hugh, I agree - this whole thing is getting boring.
Dominic --
Comment not directed at you. At the need to wear the veil. Or the non-need to wear the veil. What is halal and what is harm. The whole thing. Bores. Yet must be dealt with, must be discussed. Just a last-line-of-Nevsky-Prospekt outburst. I thought it spontaneous, but possibly quasi-calculated. Note how in the last phrase of the previous sentence, I appear to have minded my P's and Q's.
It is Hezbollah vs Taliban
and Hezbollah is the lesser evil
Posted by: Shyamsunder
Please, Shayamsunder, go take a look at Ali Sina's faithfreedom website and check out your kinder gentler Shia Islam as practiced in Iran today, where women accused of "chastity crimes" are being hung or stoned to death.
How very progressive!
I fully agree that atrocities are taking place in Iran
Except that in Saudi Arabia, women are even more oppressed
In Sunni Islam, the gates of Itjihad closed 1100 years ago, whereas it is still open for Shias
All women are oppressed in Islam, however the degree of severity decreases as one goes from Sunni islam to Shia islam
Most of the Bollywood muslim actresses are Shias
In the Indian context, shias educate their women and dont put their women in full veil
In Iran, women are allowed to drive a car, unlike in Saudi Arabia
Which eye can remain uncovered? Doesn't that throw off depth perception? No wonder muslim women need escorts, to keep them from bumping into things.
Shyamsunder,
I agree with you. Historically the Shias were the liberal Muslims. They accepted pictures and shrines and, because of their adoration of Fatima, gave women much higher status than did the Sunnis.
However, for political reasons, Khomeini and his ilk imported Wahabhi/Deobandi ideology into Shi'ism completely transforming it into the monstrousity we see today. That is why, today, there is very little difference between Shias in Hizbullah and Sunnis in Hamas. Iran and Saudi Arabia have become sickening reflections of each other.
There is nothing inherently wrong with women covering their heads. Orthodox Jewish women also cover their hair. There are various ways of doing this, depending on the community. Some wear wigs; others use a scarf covering all hair. Some have some hair showing. Others wear hats with some hair showing. Others don't cover their hair at all. Concerning clothes, the norm is long skirts and long sleeves, though some women wear sleeves to the elbows. The reason for all this is actually the same as the Muslims - to protect women's modesty. It is really awful the way young wome go around today with nothing left to the imagination. Orthodox men and women also do not go swimming together. But we Jews are free to decide how we want to live.
You all missed the most funny phrase of all in that Quran quote above...the one about women can unveil in front of their male servants "free of physical needs". Yep no need to walk around in a drape for your eunuchs, ladies.
I have been reading about Islam and the Muslim world for 5 years now and I still can't decide if it is a farce, a tragedy or a black comedy.
I'm an actress so I like to know these things.