Any genuine Islamic reform initiative depends on the success of efforts to deemphasize various Qur'anic passages, as well as some elements of the Sunnah -- and a complete reevaluation of Islamic jurisprudence. Some commentators point to the fact that for centuries -- notably, although not universally, in central Asia, Eastern Europe, and West Africa -- jihad supremacism largely lay dormant and even dropped out of the Muslim consciousness. But simply to point out that that happened is not enough anymore, precisely because jihadists are using chapter and verse of Qur'an and Sunnah to teach their vision of Islam to cultural Muslims. And they are doing so largely through the Internet. Here is one news story about just how that is being done.
From AKI, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
Berlin, 10 Oct. (AKI) - German police on Tuesday arrested near the western city of Osnabreuck an Iraqi national suspected of belonging to the al-Qaeda terror network. The 36-year-old man, identified as Ibrahim R. is accused of having over the past two years "spread worldwide over the Internet audio and video messages by the leaders of ... al-Qaida and al-Qaida in Iraq - namely Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi — and in doing so of having supported these groups in their terrorist activities and aims," prosecutors said in a statement....
What would help slow the spread of the absolute worst aspects of Islam would be if prominant clerics issue a few fatwas against Al-Qaida and their ilk. Instead they seem to be more interested in rehashing ancient history and hatreds. And yet the West lets Islamaniacs in and build more mosques and schools to spew out this garbage. Both Western and Islamic leaderships are a disgrace to their respective peoples.
Bonedigger: I may be a bit slow today but how is it this would be a big break?
Bonedigger, yes, I would be interested as well in hearing your thoughts as to why this could be huge......
"Any genuine Islamic reform initiative depends on the success of efforts to deemphasize various Qur'anic passages...."-Robert
That's going to be very difficult. One of the things I've learned from Jihadwatch, is that that the Koran, unlike the Old Testament, is considered by Muslims to be dictation from God to Mohammad via the angel Gabriel. Violent passages in the Old Testament are easy to dismiss or marginalize because, though they are considered inspired by God, they are not dictation from God. (The Koran is not like the book of Joshua-a story to be read and interpreted.) The Koran is allegedly God speaking directly, and therefore when God orders Muslim believers to kill the unbelievers-that's what God means.
People in the Muslim belief-system that advocate Jihad and the killing of unbelievers are on much firmer ground than the so-called "peaceful" Muslims on this matter. The advocates of violence against unbelievers can point to the Koran and ask: what don't you understand about a direct order from God? In that sense, Bin Laden and others like him, are right that they represent "true Islam".
CAIR style groups are running a scam when they pretend that the Koran is not dictation from God that mandates the killing of unbelievers and the establishment of Sharia law. Moderate Muslims are "Passive Terrorists" when thy don't admit that the Koran is dictation from God that mandates the killing of unbelievers and the establishment of Sharia law.
What don't Muslims understand about the facts?
What don't Muslims understand about the truth?
Islamisforloosers-
"What would help slow the spread of the absolute worst aspects of Islam would be if prominent clerics issue a few fatwas against Al-Qaida and their ilk."
Where can they point out that God did not give a direct order by dictation to Mohammad (Koran)to kill unbelievers? Once non-Muslim folks understand this, they understand the silence or deception of so-called "moderate Muslims."
I think (without any hate-really indifferently toward Muslims) that the Islamic belief-system is a collective mental illness. Anyone who treats a belief as if it is a fact and who will actively or passively allow unbelievers to be killed because they do not believe the Koran is dictation from God is mentally ill.
Islamisforloosers-
The so-called "moderate Muslims" can scam the unbelievers (I was one of them) that God did not say to kill the unbelievers by pointing to earlier passages from the Koran (like the one that said wine was good) that speak words of peace. But they have been abrogated (like the wine passage) by the final orders re wine and the final order to kill the unbeliever and force Sharia law on the world. The final word re wine and the mandate to kill unbelievers are direct orders-word for word-from God .
The so-called "moderate Muslims" know that the final word from God is the order that counts. They know that Bin Lasden is on firm ground when he says that he represents "true Islam".
jihad supremacism largely lay dormant and even dropped out of the Muslim consciousness. But simply to point out that that happened is not enough anymore, precisely because jihadists are using chapter and verse of Qur'an and Sunnah to teach their vision of Islam to cultural Muslims.
And what should - prey tell - have we expected?
The Koran has free reign - no?
[That's a problem]
Beheadings?
Cuting of hands and feet?
Crucifixions?
Gang rape of female captives?
[ALL commands of the Koran]
We can forget the leaders now.
Obviously - they agree with those teachings
No?
What kind of a person does it take to support such wickedness?
How do they sleep at night?
How do they sleep at night?
Beth-
They sleep soundly in the belief that God ordered them to do it. 72 Virgins and all that...
It's mental illness.
But the truth is that we should at least respect Bin Laden for speaking the truth that God orders Muslim believers to kill unbelievers. The frauds (CAIR etc.) quote Koranic scripture re peace that is equivalent to quoting the abrogated verse re wine (that drinking wine is OK with God) when they deceive. They are worse than Bin Laden.
But the truth is that we should at least respect Bin Laden for speaking the truth that God orders Muslim believers to kill unbelievers.
Posted by: Frank at October 10, 2006 07:39 PM
Well, that is something I never really considered. I guess I tried to find something "redeeming" (relatively speaking) that some cleric could use to counter the bloodlust this cult seems to espouse. That probably is as fruitless as trying to find a needle in a haystack.
And I agree that these crazies have some sort of mental disorder. One would have to be crazy to buy a lot of the nonsense that they think God told them.
Any genuine Islamic reform initiative depends on the success of efforts to deemphasize various Qur'anic passages...." -Robert
Um, I think we gonna have a problem with that one.
In Ahamd ibm Naqib al-Misri's "Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law," translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller and warranted by two Sheiks regarding its accuracy of translation and the qualifications of its translator to do the work, there is a section dedicated to Jihad that spells out the obligations of Muslims under sacred law.
Section O. Justice, 9.0 Jihad covers the subject very thoroughly, and one can validate my summary through reference.
The "lesser Jihad," warfare to establish/expand the religion, is conducted until it is no longer necessary. Only then can the "greater Jihad," warfare against the "lower self," become the obligatory focus for Muslims.
Jihad is a communal obligation that -must- be performed by -all- Muslims (with a few well-defined exceptions), whether actively with the sword, or "sitting behind" by supplying arms, food, etc. to those who conduct Jihad lawfully.
The caliph may make war upon Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians (provided they have first been invited to the faith) until they become Muslims or pay the jizya. All other peoples are to be fought by the caliph until they become Muslim and are not permitted to settle with the jizya. (This means, being an atheist, I am automatically a dead man under Muslim rule.)
With the exception of temporary truces, Jihad is mandatory until its ends are achieved (the establishment of Islam everywhere). And this is according to a mainstream text of Islamic sacred law.
So, Robert, how do we turn this off? I don't see a de-emphasis of the worst Qur'anic passages solving the problem as the law is and has been well-established. One might win a few over to reason, but for most Muslims, we're talking about major changes in Islamic jurisprudence (and therefore major changes in interpretation of the Qu'ran) on a global scale to achieve a halt to Jihad.
It ain't happening. I think we need a policy of:
a) overwhelming demonstrations of superior warmaking capability;
b) a demonstrated willingness to use force to contain Islam;
c) aggressive containment aimed at jailing Islamic leaders (Imams, etc.) who preach the use of physical force in conjunction with Jihad;
d) if necessary, a forced pork diet.
OK, d) above is more in jest, but I think we get the point.
-- Cincinnatus
Darn it, I left out the title of the book!
Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri's "Reliance of the Traveller" ('Umdat al-Salik), published by Amana Publications, Beltsville, MD USA, 1991 and revised in 1994, in Arabic with facing English text, commentary, and appendices edited and translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller.
*Whew.* That's a mouthful.
-- Cincinnatus