The usually reliably dhimmi Philadelphia Inquirer has unaccountably printed this generally accurate overview of the present conflict: "One Last Thing | Post-9/11 conflicts rooted in history: It's not just Afghanistan, Iraq and a 'war on terror.' It's the West vs. the Islamic world, a clash that has never abated." By Jonathan Last (thanks to Kaosktrl):
Soon after 9/11, the Bush administration labeled the conflict into which it plunged this country the "war on terror." But this is no more descriptive than calling the fight in Iraq a "war on IEDs." The more pressing question is: Are we, or are we not, engaged in a larger clash of civilizations?If the answer is "We are," the clash long predates 9/11, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and George W. Bush. It predates America itself. It is a clash between Western civilization and the Islamic world.
Harvard professor Samuel Huntington first made this case in 1993, in his famous article "The Clash of Civilizations" in the journal Foreign Affairs. "Conflict along the fault line between Western and Islamic civilizations has been going on for 1,300 years," he wrote. After the founding of Islam, Muslims spread their faith by the sword. Islam conquered North Africa and pushed into Europe, where it ruled in Sicily, Spain, Portugal, and parts of France. Twice, the forces of Islam laid siege to Vienna. For 1,000 years, Islam advanced and Christendom retreated.
As Pope Benedict XVI explains in his book Without Roots, the very concept of "Europe" emerged as a reaction to the surge of Islam. Not until the failure of the second Turkish siege of Vienna in 1683 did the Islamic tide recede definitively. For the next 300 years, Western civilization was ascendant and the Islamic world stagnated.
But the conflict between the two cultures never fully abated. Throughout the 20th century, Western countries tussled with Islamic states or their non-state proxies. And, as columnist Mark Steyn points out, when you gaze at conflicts around the globe today, the one constant is Islam. Muslims are fighting, or have recently fought, Jews in the Mideast, Hindus in Kashmir, Christians in Nigeria, atheists in Russia, Buddhists in Thailand and Burma, Catholics in the Philippines, and Orthodox Christians in the Balkans.
Some argue that these conflicts arise not from a clash of civilizations, but from specific grievances, such as the West's support of Israel. This is an unsatisfactory argument. In his 1990 essay "The Roots of Muslim Rage," professor Bernard Lewis pointed out: "The French have left Algeria, the British have left Egypt, the Western oil companies have left their oil wells, the westernizing shah has left Iran, yet the generalized resentment of the fundamentalists... against the West and its friends remains and grows and is not appeased."
The cause of conflict is not what the West does, but what the West is. Lewis gives two examples. When Israel was first founded, U.S. support was less than wholehearted. Instead, it was the Soviet Union that, through its proxy Czechoslovakia, sent Israelis arms to defend themselves in their first war. In 1956, the United States intervened to help force the British and French out of Egypt. Still, through the '50s and '60s, the Muslim world joined with the Soviets in resenting America.
In November 1979, Islamic terrorists took control of the Great Mosque in Mecca. In Islamabad, a Muslim mob was outraged. The response was to attack and burn - the U.S. Embassy. If Western opinion on the clash is divided, many Islamic voices are quite candid on the subject.
"The war with Israel is not about a treaty, a cease-fire agreement, Sykes-Picot borders, national zeal, or disputed borders," Ayman al-Zawahiri explained this year. "It is rather a jihad for the sake of God until the religion of God is established."
Read it all.
Refreshing article. I hope to see more like this in the future.
Moose
Frightning and chillingly to the point! The problem is not so must what this vast an omonoius enemy, Islam, does but how the West decides to react and counteract this 1400 year threat once and for all.
'clash of civilizations?'
Of course NOT!
WE are the civilization and Mahammedanism is barbarism, pure!
How could they possibly claim to be a civilization?
They are exactly the opposite!
The writer of the article must be reading Robert's books and slyly visiting JihadWatch when the thought police aren't looking. Since he has noted that Islam spread by violence ("sword") I wonder if the demented will be threatening his life because he states a fact that believes in the Muslim belief-system pretend is not central (violence) to their belief-system. Ibrahim Hooper will be outside the newspaper any minute now with his "religion of peace" act that people originally saw as a drama but now see as a comedy. The process with Hooper and CAIR has been like watching Hamlet turn into a Three Stooges episode as the public learns about the Islamic belief-system from folks like Bernard Lewis or Robert. The public knows a lot now about the roots of Muslim rage as they watch The CAIR Stooges (Moe, Larry and Ibrahim) on TV.
The CAIR Stooges in the Religion of Peace episode..
http://www.three-stooges.com/3-stooges.jpg
l was in high school in mid seventies, and in our world history we were taught that "Islam spread by violence ("sword") ", it was a fact undisputed. l dont know when PC came into the schools, but l feel that it came in real fast by the 80's and 90's when our liberal government were so generous with immigration from cesspool islamic countries. you would think with all the oil money going into arab countries they would be enjoying such a great economy such as Alberta, Northern European countries with oil, such as GBritain, Norway etc. but these generous muslims just want to keep all that money for a few select. When will the stupid muslim joe wake up and stop blaming the West, Israel,Jews for thier poverty but look at themselves, their cult of islam, clerics.. Iran should be a gem of the oil belt in the middle east. wonder could it be ISLAM!
Robert: maybe this writer actually read some of your books..........now we're getting somewhere.
The 'religion' of the "dark ages" reminds me of events 10,000 years ago....ritual human sacrifice, child sacrifice, woman sacrifice, idol worship, etc., etc.
They sure haven't gotten very far since the good old days.
This is a good start. When islam loses the left it loses power in America. Finally the liberals are starting to see islam as a threat and not just except them blindly because they see them as anti government. They don’t have the numbers to replace the liberal vote. We need to help educate the rest, every time we see a member of the religion of peace murder someone, pass the information along. Even liberals don’t like reading about, pedophiles, child killers and rapists (basically islam) especially when it is encouraged.
Let's not be so culture-centric, please. A lot of Hindu blood has been spilled by Moslem attackers; a lot of Buddhist blood as well (and of course pagans and people of other faiths).
My point is that this clash is not bipolar, that is, Islam versus the West, but Islam versus the rest of the world.
That is a very important point. Just as the recent Moslem rage against the Pope shows (as we here already knew) that the problem isn't just Moslems versus Jews.
Thank-you and God Bless you, on this rainy Sunday morning after coming home from church, Philadelphia Inquirer for at last making a good discovery of what is TRUE that we are in a clash of cilvilazations of the Jewish/Christian west vs. the Islamic east.
Clash of civilizations?
No, it can't be true!
If you look at all the smiling faces in the picture at
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ramadan/2006/
which carolyn2 provided on an earlier thread, it is obvious that there is no such clash!
Look carefully at the caption below the picture, it reads:
President George W. Bush addresses the Iftaar Dinner with Ambassadors and Muslim Leaders in the State Dining Room of the White House, Monday, Oct. 17, 2005. White House photo by Paul Morse
Also notice the looking back section to the right.
Here is the caption from as far back as ramadan 2002. Notice the smiling "President of the United States?"
The caption reads:
President George W. Bush marks Eid al-Fitr, the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, with an address at the Islamic Center of Washington, D.C., Thursday, Dec. 5.
Now if there was a so-called "class of civilizations" that really existed, do you really believe that the President Of The United States of America, would attend such conferences?
Do you in your wildest dreams that your highest elected official would spend YOUR TAX DOLLARS, THAT YOU WORKED FOR, THAT RIGHTFULLY BELONG TO YOU, AND SHOULD BE MANAGED TO PROTECT YOU to build and maintain a website dedicated to the promotion of an ideology that proclaims your demise and the destruction of everything you hold dear?
You must be some kind of whacko conspiracy nut job if you believe that!
And if you believe there is a clash of civilizations, then you probably believe that Elvis and Monroe were taken on UFO's and that JFK was killed by more than one gunman!
Ask George and Laura, they will clarify the issue for you.
If you are troubled by such a specter, look at the soft blue hues at the top of the website to put your mind at ease.
George and Laura didn't spend a nickle of their money on the damn thing!
After all, it was YOUR money that paid for the website; so enjoy it!
Seymour Paine,
While it is true that many Hindus, Buddhists, and people with no faith have been attacked by Muslims, the greatest number of attacks have been made to Jews and Christians, not just only in Isreal and in the Middle East but also in the west.
witness,
Had the Bushes said the full truth about Islam like say for example, Pope Benedict XVI, those smiles would soon turn into frowns of anger and with verbal accusations of being against Muslims or worse threatened.
Recent events have shown how much MSM is confused over social and philosophical issues. It would be best for the reporters just to report the news without getting into moral and philosophical comments.
We do not expect reporters to be highly educated or even understand the issues they report in any degree of depth.
So called commentators are even worse. To comment on many issues one need the knowledge of history, philosophy, religion, politics and more. Very few of the commentators have such knowledge and what they have is very superficial at best. As Hippocrates said 2,500 years ago: “There are many in name, few in fact”.
One of the topics brought through the media with repetition deserving better use is the subject of “innocent Moslems” being killed or wounded by IDF, American or British forces. The assumption that if a person does not shoot at anybody proves his innocents is wrong.
I’ve had enough of hearing about “innocent Moslems”.
Everyone seems to forget that along with personal responsibilities we also have collective ones.
We do normally accept responsibility for the action of our children.
The law of many countries states quite clearly that one can be responsible for the action of a group if he is just a member of the group and even not an active one.
Moslem Sharia law prescribes collective punishment for non-Moslems for a crime“ of one of them.
Nobody would be surprised if a person is arrested for being a member of Al Qaeda.
A person is guilty in the eyes of the law, if he does not divulge his knowledge about a crime, even without being a part of it.
Any person bares a strong responsibility for his actions, less so for the actions of his children, less so for the actions of his nation and co-religionists. In fact there are no innocent people in the world. We are responsible for the action of our government as well.
All Germans and all Japanese were responsible for what happened during The WW2, even those who opposed Fascism and it does not mean that all Germans or Japanese were bad. Some of them, even the members of Nazi party were honest and decent people and as much as we should be grateful to them, it does not remove them from sharing the collective responsibility of the German and Japanese nations. The best of those people well understood such collective responsibilities.
A Moslem, who does not commit any crime, is responsible for the crimes committed by other Moslems and we, non-Moslems, are also responsible for those crimes.
People who died on 9/11 were also not innocent. Islamic terrorism had been going on for more then 30 years prior to 9/11 and people did not care.
We allowed our MSM to flood the air and the newspapers with pro-Islamic and pro-terrorist propaganda.
We watched Arafat coming to Europe and UN to a standing ovation and treated as a head of state.
We allow political, economic and military support to the Moslem states.
We go on holiday to The Gulf, Malaysia and Indonesia.
We do business with Moslems, employ them and even give them citizenship in our countries.
We elect politicians, who are not capable to protect our countries from Moslem threat.
We allowed a creation of an artificial Palestinian nation and have shown to the world that terrorism can work.
We all are not innocent.
We all are guilty.
That guilt varies not in essence, only in a degree.
A Moslem carrying a bomb is more guilty then a Moslem who supports Islam and keeps silent.
A University professor or a reporter is more guilty then a man on a street, who allows those people to propagate Islamic views.
And The Pope is more guilty, then a parish priest. But guilty there are.
At the same time a collective guilt also implies a collective redemption. A catholic speaking the trough, speaks not only as an individual, but for all the Catholics, a Jew for all the Jews and a Moslem for all the Moslems.
bigcatgirl13106
Point well taken!
Consider that Pope Benedict XVI didn't even say "the full truth about Islam " -- he merely hinted at it through a quote.
I am unhappy with George for a number of reasons -- his website is not at all amusing to me.
Simple arithmetic. Counting bodies. Who made them bodies.
Simple geography. Is there fighting there? Is Islam there? Yes.
We will see more such commentary as the sleepers awake. The PC media has reached the point where all it can say is that famous Marx Brothers line:
(said indignantly)
"Who you gonna believe, me are your eyes?"
I am unhappy with George for a number of reasons -- his website is not at all amusing to me.
Posted by: witnes
Witness name me one political group, politician who has done more to get rid of muslim terrorism than George W.Bush? and l am not talking about the past like Winston Churchill. dont you think in this this leftist pc climate that is Bush were to be half as open as the pope all hell would break out in DC, movemon.org for dummies? why the heck Clinton goes off to muslim countries like Bahrain and tells an eagrer crowd it was you bad Americans who are casuing all this muslim hatred, tell me what part of the "Hate America Crowd" has gone after muslim terrorist? and that crowd is just plain hate West crowd. please enlighten me about it? has any recent president done as much to clean up the middle east? did Bush W cozy up to Arafat? no! he knew he was a terrorist and did not want to work with him.. yeah Abbas is just more sneaky, but Bush is using these muslim idoits like a violin. They Israel weeks to totally destroy the Hezbos, what did Clinton /Carter offer? mmmmm l am waiting.. so when you say you are displeased with Bush, your list should not stop there.. you have Clinton and Carter who are so much more devious and behind the scenes to make sure muslims are apeased.
Pong...I dont agree with the concept of guilt by association. There are plenty of actions taken by government that I am not guilty of, regardless where I live. Somehow I just dont feel guilt laden...guess thats because I'm not a liberal...
Wonderful article.
Its about time the idiots in the mainstreammedia got it, and fools like Ibrahim Hooper were exposed.
Maybe the writer was influenced by that phenomenal docudrama "The Road To 9/11"
Now G.W. has to get it and locate the Saudis and Pakistan properly in this challenge from islam. John Bolton still talks about the "occupied territories".
Our grossest stupidity is to seek plaudits and approbation from the muslim populations. Barring capitulation, that will never happen. There will always be another demand.
If we do not go on the offensive and choose victory, we will lose.If we do not identify and name our enemy, we will lose.
And if you lose , you will even lose the right to call yourself a loser.
But if we win, we win both the chance to write the history books and to discuss whether we won or lost.
Hindus are being forced to wear the Burkha, which is an Islamic dress:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2056498.cms
You'll never see any Hindu institution requiring Muslims to wear Hindu dress.
duh_swami,
I agree with you, I am guilty of nothing but I am committed to this fight. It would be nice to have support though. Pong does have a point about elected officials, we will soon have the power to replace a bunch of liberal politicians. If we daily readers keep asking about what the plan is to stop the world wide jihad the politicians will not be able to ignore this threat and will be forced too pick a side. As much as they want the next election to be about global warming we have to make them stay on our main point, our survival. We can worry about ice melting later.
From the Sunday Times by religious historian Michael Burleigh
I hope America cancels the visa waiver program for Britain. It may concentrate minds.
The last line in this essay portends trouble ahead- serious trouble ie a civil uprising.
I've been predicting a civil war in Europe, but that will take some time. A civil war requires that the protagonists are somewhat matched in power and numbers. That would mean living in this state of constant vigilance and insecurity for another 30 years or more. We just dont have the luxury for that. Besides civil life will come to an end long before then.
A revolution ie a civil uprising may happen, to knock out all the silly sixties and seventies PC multiculteralist dogma and detritis off the street. This also means a recognition that Islam and the West are mutually and dangerously incompatible. Its like sodium and water - bring the two together and an explosion occurs. An explosion will hurt everybody, and that is not what I want to see happen.
Once Muslims are back in dar al islam, we can become good friends, as neighbours ought to be. But living together is really not on.
bigcatgirl13106
The greatest holocaust to have taken place was the one in India when Muslims invaded India and the occupation after. Buddhism was wiped out in Afghanistan, as Buddhists never really grasped the sheer evil of Islam. They couldnt, and it is hard to blame them for it; many of us still fail to see this. There has never been such a scale of mass murder then what the Muslims perpetrated in India.
Coming to the present, have a look at the 'Religion of peace' site. You will find that the largest number of ongoing Jihadi murders are in India.
Wow, this line is so true:
'Second: No matter how frightening, sometimes you must take your adversaries at their word.'
And it is so obvious, and yet how rarely we hear it said!
"The cause of conflict is not what the West does, but what the West is." There is an exception. They hate us when we apologize for telling the truth. They hate us for being weak. They hate us for praising them after they attack us on 9-11. They hate us for continuing immigration after 9-11.
Why do they hate us? Because it works. We give way. We let them immigrate here. As Qaddafi says, they don't have to listen to us, because we won't be here in 50 years in Europe and a few more in America.
Hating the West is a strategy. Its always worked for them. We have paid them Jizyah tax, ransom, protection money, oil, etc. They lump them all together.
What will replace the oil revenue? Pakistan is working on putting nuclear warheads based on plutonium from their new plant that will make 40 warheads a year on cruise missiles on subs. Those subs will be off our coasts. They are going to sell those to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya, new Iraq, North Korea, al Qaeda, Hamas, Hizubullah, Egypt, etc. When all those subs are off our coasts, will they ask us to pay 1 trillion dollars a year Jizyah tax? Will this replace the oil revenue?
They can't make money without oil. Their leaders don't worry if we kill their followers. If they nuke one of our cities and we nuke one of theirs, its no loss to their leaders. Their people are not productive. As long as we pay to stop the nukes hitting us, they don't care how many nukes we toss on them.
The Muslim way of war is not mutual assured destruction, its Barbary Pirates. They don't care if some of their people die. MAD can't work against leaders who aren't loyal to their people.
Witness name me one political group, politician who has done more to get rid of muslim terrorism than George W.Bush?
Can’t. That is exactly the problem since I do not believe George has done enough in this regard.
and l am not talking about the past like Winston Churchill.
Tragically ironic that we can’t compare to the past when national interest meant something. But, you are realistic; there are no Winston Churchills on the horizon anywhere – except perhaps in the Islamic camp. How sad!
dont you think in this this leftist pc climate that is Bush were to be half as open as the pope all hell would break out in DC, movemon.org for dummies?
Yes. Too bad we don’t leaders who have the guts to stand up against them.
why the heck Clinton goes off to muslim countries like Bahrain and tells an eagrer crowd it was you bad Americans who are casuing all this muslim hatred, tell me what part of the "Hate America Crowd" has gone after muslim terrorist?
I wish I could revoke Clinton’s citizenship and force him to stay in Bahrain where he belongs. He’d love shariah law – especially Hillary who no doubt might consider a sex change under the circumstances just to retain power.
and that crowd is just plain hate West crowd. please enlighten me about it?
Clinton and Bush both had the “West” as far as I am concerned.
has any recent president done as much to clean up the middle east?
Clean up the middle east? Were any of the presidents of the United States elected to represent the interests of anyone in the middle east? When I read the US Constitution or the Federalists Papers, I get the mistaken impression that a president’s primary duties are not in the middle east, but rather in the United States and to the citizens there – not in the middle east.
did Bush W cozy up to Arafat? no! he knew he was a terrorist and did not want to work with him..
Could have been Arafat’s scratchy beard too; but then again Arafat preferred little boys.
yeah Abbas is just more sneaky, but Bush is using these muslim idoits like a violin.
While the United States burns because of porous borders, and a treasonous immigration policy. Kind of like ancient Rome, isn’t it?
They Israel weeks to totally destroy the Hezbos, what did Clinton /Carter offer?
They offered your hard earned tax dollars and Bush just gave several million of YOUR tax dollars directly to Hamas.
mmmmm l am waiting..
For a train?
so when you say you are displeased with Bush, your list should not stop there..
It doesn’t.
you have Clinton and Carter who are so much more devious and behind the scenes to make sure muslims are apeased.
They are traitors too as far as I am concerned.
I also think it would be a good idea to write a note of thanks to the author. His e-mail address is at the end of the article. There's so much nonsense being written and believed that when someone writes something that's on target they need to hear from us. Who knows, maybe it will continue and spread!
"l was in high school in mid seventies, and in our world history we were taught that "Islam spread by violence ("sword") ", it was a fact undisputed. l dont know when PC came into the schools ... " from Z.W.Princess
It simple, Dhimmi Carter kept atleast one campaign promise. He, along with willing Dhimmicrats, created the Detartment of Education. The decline of American schools began wiht that event.
Ronin,
Four times in One hundred years the press has hailed drastic climate change. One day we are facing an Ice Age the next we are all about to be cooked alive (add a little garlic to me for taste). Thirty years ago it was the coming Ice Age now it’s just the opposite. I am beginning to detect a pattern. According to Agor, Tobacco is the enemy of all mankind not the jihadis. And that brings me to my main point, how will Global Thermonuclear War affect the climate? I say,who the **** cares if GTW occurs. These people are so paralyzed with fear of the jihadis that they try to distract themselves with things they have very little control over. Want to stop global warming? Start cleaning up any rotting vegetation, next to the ocean that is the biggest influence of global temperature. I’m with ZenaWarriorPrincess, when I went to school before the modern PC crapthink.
"It is a clash between Western civilization and the Islamic world."
-- from the article above
Not a "clash." Not "Western civilization" (whatever that is). Not "the Islamic world." A permanent state of warfare between Believer and Infidel, Muslim and non-Muslim. All Infidels, and all Believers. Not about "Western civilization." Most of the trashy contents of television are the enemy, but so are most of what is contained in the Louvre or the Metropolitan. Gibson guitars and their twanging players are not to be endured, but you must count those Kochel numbers out as well. Paris Hilton is the enemy according to the good doctors of Al-Azhar, but so is the Hindu villager in Kashmir, the Buddhist farmer in southern Thailand, the Dinka tribesman in southern Sudan.
Not a "clash of civilizations." Just a war, prompted by the immutable texts of Islam, and by the attitudes that naturally arise from any Believer's encounters with those texts. It doesn't take special radicalisation. It doesn't require training in a madasa or steady attendance at a mosque, or hearing a series of hysterical khutbas. All of that may be sufficient, but it is not necesary. Islam alone, learned about in some King Abdul Aziz Mosque in Saudi Arabia, or with two or three friends in Manchester or Madrid, or all by yourself, in Portland, Oregon or Chapel Hill, North Carolina, can do the trick.
Same texts, same Jihad, same 9.29 and 9.5 and a hundred other Qur'anic passages, and hundreds more of "authentic" Hadith. And the figure of Muhammad. It can happen anywhere. Those born into it, those who are recent converts. No way of knowing who will put the doctrine into practice. But many will, if given the chance. And many others will defend them, will explain away their actions, will take offense at any attempt to limit the power to "remove the obstacles" to the spread of Islam, until it everywhere dominates, and Muslims rule everywhere. How many, out of every 100 Muslims, does one need to participate, actively or passively, in Jihad, for one to conclude that the security risk, the risk to the wellbeing, of the Infidels requires that Muslim emigration must everywhee be stopped, and the Muslim presence be discouraged, or constrained, in othe ways as well?
I agree with what Seymour_Paine wrote above. This is Islam vs. the rest of the World. More Hindus from India, the Hindu-Kush, and Buddhists have been butchered by these savages than any other people, including the Armenians (who have suffered centuries of genocide at the hands of these savages). And I am a Roman Catholic; I grew up in the sixties and early seventies in Catholic schools and we learned our history well. We were taught that Islam spread by the sword, and nothing but the sword. We heard about what it was like for dhimmis in Muslim countries.
Read about Tamerlane's butchery in India. This very aggressive and savage Muslim caliph piled up mountains of severed heads to emphasize his power and to terrorize the infidels in India and beyond. I highly recommend Andrew G. Bostom's book, "The Legacy of Jihad." I strongly recommend that all educated Americans read his, Robert's, and Bat Ye'or's books. Most of all, take the time to read he Qur'an. It's a difficult slog. I found it perhaps the most difficult book to get through - and I've read some challenging texts, like Martin Heiddegger's "Being and Time." All Americans who are capable, and have the time, should also get some exposure to the Sunnah.
Whether we like it or not, whether we believe it or not, and whether we deny it or accept it, we are in a clash of Civilization vs. the sacralized barbarism of the Arabian/Bedhouin culture.
Mo, I totally agree.
PLEASE write Jonathan Last at jlast@phillynews.com to congratulate him for his courage.
Also, please write the Philly Inquirer newspaper to congratulate them on the courage for posting Last's article: editor@phillynews.com, or http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/columnists/chris_satullo/qa_forum.htm#question_form
General letters go here: inquirer.letters@phillynews.com
As we all know, it is indeed courageous to write and publish these facts.
Witness,
Following up on one of your earlier postings,
I did look at the link:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ramadan/2006/
and while I did find there was also the link
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ramadan/2005/
there was no link
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/christmas/2005/
neither was there a link for
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/hanukkah/2005/
Interesting, isn't it?
tgusa,
On my list of dirtbags,
jihadi muslims
regular muslims
name only muslims (aka sympathizers)
politicians
lawyers
newsmen
The rest start with pedophiles and work through the rest of the criminal element followed by communists, cultists and the like. I wanted to post it just to let folks know where they stand. I do move a few around based on world events but for some reason muslims always top the list.
All this talk about Islam being an especially & uniquely violent religion is based upon prejudice and ignorance. Have you people forgotten your own history?
Let's see, during the 20th century there were two global wars: World War I, World War II. Who were the violent people who engaged in these global scale wars which killed tens of millions?
Europeans, including the children of Europe who inhabited the New World. The United States of America was especially involved in the violence. We incenerated 100,000 people with incendiary bombs in Dresden and Tokyo. We invented the nuclear bomb and then vaporized 100,000 civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Would anyone care to argue that the West is a peace-loving civilization?
Well, let's look back to the 19th century. The United States of America committed slavery against the abducted people of Africa, denied these same people human rights, and then we fought a Civil War (killing over 600,000 Americans in the North and South) over the issue. The war ended slavery but it did not end oppression, it took over a century of struggle before the Civil Rights movement finally succeeded in granting the oppressed an opportunity to live in a free society.
During this same time, the United States of America committed numerous acts of genocide against the Native Americans. Manifest Destiny meant that Americans had to right to steal the lands of the Native Americans and eradicate their cultures. During this same time, Americans nearly drove the magnificent bison to extinction in order to rob the Native Americans of their primary food supply.
Will anyone argue that the United States of America -- with its thousands of nuclear weapons and bloody past -- is a peace loving nation?
Now, to the subject of religion: Christianity has a bloody history. Christians should know this because one of the primary motivators of early American settlers was to escape persecution and attain religious freedom here. It is also one of the primary reasons why our constitution separates Church and State. In Europe, Christian governments with political and military power had oppressed minorities, restricted religions, and engaged in bloody warfare over doctrinal differences.
So much for the idea that Christianity is a more peaceful religion than Islam.
Although this article was rather refreshing from a big city newspaper, something was missing. Jonathan Last still did not elaborate on the cause. The wars between white settlers and North American aboriginies was a clash of civilations. The wars between British colonists and the Zulus was a clash of civilizations. Simply calling it a clash of civilations is a generalization that is not helpful. He could have simply stated that the cause of this clash is deeply rooted in the teachings of Mr Mohammed, but omitted this important fact. He had an opportunity to tell the reader about the aspects of Basic Islam 101 but for some reason did not. It could be that he does not want to be murdered by some insulted Sincere Muslim? Nevertheless this column was a step in the right direction.
ZenaWarriorPrincess-
"....muslims just want to keep all that money for a few select."
You hit the nail on the Muslim head. I was reading yesterday that one home in Aspen Colorado was bought by a Saudi prince (I think the figure was 135M) so he can go skiing. Money that could be spent on great universities (similar to MIT, Oxford, etc.) is spent on toys for such people while they throw bones to the clerical-watch dogs to the keep the people in-line and stupid. The Muslim folks don't put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4 and see that a tiny country like Israel produces more new and excellent science than all of the Muslim world because their minds are crippled by their belief-system.
I once compared the whole of Muslim education to Chinese foot-binding for the head. I think that is an apt description of what has been done to the minds of Muslims in the name of Islam. The foot-binding for the head begins early in life with them.
BTW, I once received a pat on the head from Hugh for the "foot-binding" analogy. He called it "a memorable description".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-36,GGLJ:en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=chinese+footbinding&spell=1
Benedict's remarks on the emergence of "Europe" are too simplistic and self-serving, like most of the propoganda that comes out of The Vatican.
Europe was goaded toward unity as a reaction to the Muslim expansion, but was also used as a concept more freely after the the Protestant Reformation moved the Catholic church to reform itself, which also permanently divided the totalitarian "Christendom." This forced more people to speak of "Europe." Not mentioning this significant factor is disingenous at best.
Having said that I still find Hunnington's book a good match for events not only in the 90's, but also today. It is hard to come up with conflicts in the world that do not involve Muslims against each other or picking fights with their neighbors.
Solutions to current problems need to be found:
http://www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com/
"David Matthews" seems to have forgotten that we are not given a universal injunction to kill or effect the submission of all unbelievers, as a command from God. Your anti-Christian screed is not historically-subtle and attempts to build a case against the West and Christianity based upon our exceptional bad behavior, not our doctrine and not the overwhelming good that Christianity has achieved, in juxtaposition to the ESSENTIAL and DOCTRINAL violence of Islam.
You are one of those moral-equivalizing adolescents who scolds Dad because he may have smoked a reefer or two in his you, when Dad is trying to keep his adolescent son or daughter away from bad habits and bad company.
BTW, that "ZenaWarriorPrincess" handle of yours conjurs up some pleasant images in my mind that I won't go into. Interesting name.
Ladies and Gentlemen, do not be alarmed but another Troll has been discovered on board. It is a venomous David Mathews snake. If bitten by this reptile, do not panic, symptoms include anger, and the uncontrollable urge to make obsene gestures at the monitor. These symptoms will pass along with Troll-Snakes.
Ronin,
I second that.
David Mathews,
The Civil War was the beginning of the end for Slavery. Any other country or people ever stand up for the rights of slaves? Did you know that Brazil had legal Slavery into the 20th century? The Indians were a noble Warrior culture but you would portray them as wimps that got hammered by whitey. Get your head in the now before you lose it altogether. The history of man is a bloody one yet you can’t seem to comprehend that through your bigoted microscope. You are also apparently unable to understand
“Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion” that is the separation of State from Church not the other way around.
Hello Fred,
Did Europeans kill 100 million people during their century of warfare (the 20th century)?
If violence is not commanded by the Christian god, exactly how is that Christians have such a long and bloody history of warfare throughout the world? Exactly how is it that the conquistadors exterminated entire civilizations as they sought to spread the gospel and steal gold?
If violence is not commanded by the Christian god, exactly how is it that Europeans made an industry out of abducting people from Africa and selling them as slaves throughout the New World?
If violence is not commanded by the Christian god, exactly how did it happen that the United States invented and used the nuclear bomb, and now has thousands of these genocidal weapons stockpiled and floating ominously throughout the world's oceans?
If violence is not commanded by the Christian god, exactly how did the United States of America kill over a million Vietnamese civilians during the Vietnam war?
If violence is not commanded by the Christian god, how is it possible that we have killed over 30,000 Muslim civilians since 9/11?
If you people are violating your own religion, won't you face eternal punishmnet from your own god for your actions?
All this talk about Islam being an especially & uniquely violent religion is based upon prejudice and ignorance. Have you people forgotten your own history?
If you people are violating your own religion, won't you face eternal punishmnet from your own god for your actions?
Posted by: David Mathews
`No we have not but you miss the point to do nothing is surrender. We will fight and as you pointed out we are good at it.
As far as violating any religion I might follow, I'll work that out with my maker, afterwards.
Hello Pelayo,
A discussion board which is devoted to fear, prejudice, bigotry and egregious historical ignorance is -- by definition -- populated only by trolls.
If you people become angry and enraged, will you behave in a violent manner? Would you kill a person for critizing your Christianity and your beloved United States of America?
Do you people really believe in freedom of speech? Do you really practice freedom of religion?
No, I don't think so. This website exist specifically to spread hatred and advocate violence against the Muslims. If you people were really peace-loving Christians, you would have love the Muslims and protect them from American violence.
I think our troll has us confused with some mythological caricature, since his insistence that we do not have freedom of religion is not drawn from current reality. Dealing in caricatures is bit too mind-cluttering and leads to faulty logic.
Hello Ronin,
"We will fight and as you pointed out we are good at it."
Of course, you will fight. You are already fighting and killing plenty of Muslim civilians. Haven't you already noticed 30,000 dead civilians in Iraq?
How many more Muslims do you want to kill?
Would you like to commit genocide against the Muslims?
Will you drop nuclear bombs upon the Muslims, just as you dropped them upon the Japanese civilians of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
So much with the idea that only the Muslims are violent. Evidently, you people are violent too.
Where are the peace-loving Christians with their aircraft carriers and nuclear bombs?
"Let's see, during the 20th century there were two global wars: World War I, World War II. Who were the violent people who engaged in these global scale wars which killed tens of millions?" Posted by David "The Snake" Matthews, with apologies to Ken Stabler.
World War 2 was started by Shintoists in Japan and an atheist in Germany. Don't like the answer, huh? Tough S**t.
World War 1 was started by Christians against Charistians. The causes of WW1 go far beyond my ability to explain them now or Mr. Mattherws' ability to understand them.
Hello Fred,
I am certain that you people are opposed to freedom of religion. You want to persecute, oppress and exclude Islam. You will revoke the freedom of religion and also the freedom of speech in order to eradicate Islam from the United States.
Otherwise, your prejudice, bigotry & fear are utterly pointless.
Well, do you believe in freedom of religion or not? Will you defend the American Muslims' right to freedom of speech, and freedom of religion?
Hello Pelayo,
Certainly, World War I is far beyond your ability to either understand or explain.
Wasn't it Christian America that invented and used the nuclear bomb?
Wasn't it also Christian America that engaged in slavery against the abducted children of Africa and genocide against the Native Americans?
Wasn't it Christian Europeans who killed each other during the anarchy of the Reformation?
Didn't Christian Europe persecute the Jewish citizens of Europe?
And ... did the Mayans and Incans donate their territory and gold to the Spanish Catholics?
Evidently there is an idiot posting lies and then trying to hide behind Freedom of Speech. Yes you have free Speech, you also have Free movement and Free thought. So do us all a favor and think about moving along somewhere else, you genocidal loonytoon numb skull.
Is that you King Tolerance?? LOL, you deluded fool!
Well, do you believe in freedom of religion or not? Will you defend the American Muslims' right to freedom of speech, and freedom of religion?
I'll answer that one - If freedom of religion means the right of Muslims to exhort the followers to jihad, murder apostates, or kill those who criticize Islam in my own country, NO!
The Inquirer is dhimmi because there are many Muslims in Philly, nearly all of whom, as far as I could tell, are black. Blacks have long been a reliable Democrat voting base there, and the Inquirer is nothing if not a schill for the Democrats. Many Muslim women in Philly wear the burka; it's quite striking to see black women walking down the street in black burkas during a hot Philly summer.
David Mathews it seems you are part of the Hate America crowd. if you talk about the US history, well not one country has achieved as much within 300 years. With the US constitution the rest of the world has much work to get up to par with it. the past North Americans Natives, in Canada they prefer "First Nations",but what the heck, most Natives died of disease brought over from settlers, that is a fact. the teachings of "Christianity" in Canada mainly at first by the Jesuits was peaceful. There were not good ways at how Native AMericans were teated, looking at history is full of such wars across the globe.
But you have to look at the end product and see how the US has managed to become as Pres.Ronald Raegan once said "the city of lights on the hill"..(ps not sure of exact words) but it has become such a great country that you have people from all over the world trying to move into the US. so all your demonizing the US does not work here. You need to really read the article above and see how Islam is a death cult, it controls every day life, and encourages violence and death on all those who do not practice it well enough and all who do not submit to it. that is a dangerous evil cult, and has to be taken out.
David,
I have in my past had the opportunity to both defend and attack muslims. Neither was done in the name of Christianity, I lived my life in the USA and never once have I heard any US politician order us into battle in the name of Christ, allah, or Barney the purple dinosaur. You attempt to spin this as a religious based war is nonsense unless your point is one sided.
Let's skip the history lesson and focus on now, the iraqis themselves admit they have no idea how many civilians have died. I for one, release insurgents are not soldiers they are all civilians. So, the questions should be how many of the civilians are hostile? I would also like to point out muslims are far better at killing muslims than we are and they killed most of those same “civilians”. As far as me and wanting a muslim genocide, nah, just to box them back in and stop their rain of terror. For all the faults of Americans we can’t take credit for fighting in every muslim country nor with its non muslim neighbors. It is hard to find a muslim country without an active insurgency or an war with it’s neighbors. Clean your own house before you worry about ours.
To David Mathews,
First if we are the same, is our dying equal to their dying, or do you prefer us to die, or us not to die?
Second, are we the same, or do you think we are worse?
Third, do you regard us as an aggressor on them?
Do you think they attacked us in 633 and then afterwards?
Was their ideology developed specifically to target the Western Superpower, the Eastern Roman Empire, Christianity and Judaism?
Does it teach to attack and defeat it?
Christianity was developed before Islam, so it has no command to specifically attack it. Nor does it have any to attack any religion.
There are words inside the Dome of the Rock that are specifically anti-Christian.
Mr Matthews, I have more important things to do now than to respond to your crap. You are so full of it that it is coming out your mouth. I have some football games to watch.
David mathews "Islam" is not a religion, but a cult.
you must be a moron, look at how islam spread across the world, mainly by the sword, who in their right mind would ever want to become a muslim. to those who are born and brainwashed, you have to decide which side of evil you belong. l say death to islam!
now l feel great!
David, what's your real name? Abdul, Mahmoud or Yassir?
For roiling, toiling, trolls the bell's been tolled. Do not send to ask for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.
To David Mathews,
Are you glad Pakistan has the bomb? Do you want them to have nuclear warheads on missiles on subs? Do you want those sold to Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, North Korea, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, etc?
If we have war, do you want it to be equal? Both sides have nukes, both sides have millions killed?
Do you want them to just win by immigration?
Should Muslims in the US, UK, French and Indian military have control over bombers with nuclear bombs, missile silos, submarines in their arsenals without supervision by non-Muslims? Is it bigoted even to ask?
Are you glad that some scientists like Klaus Fuchs and Bruno Pontecorvo game Russia secrets? Are you glad A. Q. Khan was educated with a Ph.D. in Belgium and got work there in secrets he used in the Paksitan bomb? Do you think we should continue to teach their students here and not let our students study science, math, engineering, or even economics and business at a Ph.D. level?
I am not ashamed of my country or my faith.
I will fight against evil.
I will not apologize.
You can FOAD.
Those seeking respite from the inanities of the troll may find humor in this.
Larger version available at http://thepugilstick.blogspot.com/
To David Mathews,
Are you glad there was no profiling on the morning of 9-11? Did you say when you saw the buildings burning, thank God there was no profiling this morning. Did you say that as the 2nd plane hit WTC?Did you say that as they hit the Pentagon? Did you say that as the passengers fought to stop the final plane from being a missile? Did you say that when the memorial was a Red Crescent?
Did you say, thank God for Norman Mineta, there will be no profiling after 9-11? Did you watch old reruns of All in the Family, thinking, Archie Bunker is a bigot who didn't deserve to be protected by profiling on 9-11?
Hugh, feeding trolls is fun and it works in our favor. Many of the rants are emailed around outside of JW/DW and it brings us new members. I’d bet your readership has sky rocketed over the last few years. I have sent many of your articles (and comments to them) to my military buddies. A lot of them are daily readers they can not comment as long as they wear the uniform but they are here and learning quickly.
Without a doubt Mr. Last is correct that we are in a clash of civilizations. Call it a war on terror if you wish, but the truth is Lash is hitting the nail on the head.
However, I have one comment to make. Last and others like him have overlooked the Balkans, and to a far lesser extent, Malta, as being Europe.
When will it be understood that it was not merely Portugal, Southern Spain, and Vienna that were under siege and indeed conquered to varying degrees?
The fact is the Balkans/Southeastern Europe is clearly past of Europe. The following is a non-exhaustive list of European nations that have also suffered (to varying degrees) far more recently under the Ottomans: Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Bosnia, Serbia, Romania, Croatia, Hungary, Cyprus and Malta. None were mentioned. All are European. To say otherwise shows a continuing ignorance of history and of geography. To continue to make mention only of those nations Last mentioned is to inaccurately, and by omission, incorrectly label vast areas of Europe as somehow outside of Europe. This characterization continues to diminish the worth of the nations that suffered far more recently under the Ottomans. Since Greece is in the EU, and soon will be joined by Romania and Bulgaria, one would hope those days of mislabeling would come to an end. Moreover, failing to mention Constantinople and the areas of the Balkans when discussing Islam in Europe plays directly into the hands of the Moslems by someone acquiescencing to this idea that areas like Bosnia are somehow not inside Europe.
David Mathews.
Do not make much of what Peloyo said about you. Express yourself the way you feel,
without being personal. I am sure Robert welcomes any opinion as far as they
honest and not abusive. It would also be nice if you state your position more clearly.
Your post, nevertheless, calls for some “critique.”
Islam IS “especially and uniquely violent religion.” Koran itself proves it beyond any doubt.
Yes, The Western history is a bloody one. Dresden and Hiroshima were devastated.
The difference between us and the Muslims is how we view and relate to those events.
We look at those events with regret and understand it was a necessary evil, or a
mistake.
We are not proud of what we have done wrong and we try to learn from our mistakes.
We assess our history from a humanistic and not a religious point of view.
If Islam could do the same, there would be no problems we are facing today.
Benedict's remarks on the emergence of "Europe" are too simplistic and self-serving, like most of the propoganda that comes out of The Vatican.
Self-serving propaganda??? Kind of like your ambiguous "commentary"....
Another second rate critic of Pope Benedict who has all the "answers" to the worlds problems....
In the book, "The Clash of Civilizations," the author lists the most pressing foreign policy problems in 1993:
Iraq
Iran
N. Korea
Ever notice even the trolls refuse to comment on the fact that more muslims kill muslims than we do? They are usually quick to point out muslim accomplishments (most are BS). I say be proud of your record, you are the number one killers of muslims worldwide, congratulations, job well done, keep up the good work.
While you continue to delude yourselves that all the worlds problems can be traced back to Jews or westerners (mostly US) we watch you destroy yourselves. We do so not with glee but with horror at the waste. Grow up and join this century.
Folks, having seen what went on with Pope Benedict XVI and the Muslims, plus this recent news commetary from the Philidelphia Inquirer, we can only imagine how Robert's new book is going to be received this month. I wish Robert Godspeed and all the best.
Want to thank you Ronin for your articulation of a powerful observation: when islam loses the left, it loses power in America.
When Lieberman goes independant, we know where the split is in the Dems.
Perhaps "The Road to 9/11" being produced for 40 mil(it is both dramatically and cinematically fantastic), and being produced by one of the normally benighted media, ABC, shows a few minds on the left perhaps starting to wake up.
When headbanger Zawahiri from Waziristan (thanks to and screw you Musharrif) actually attacks G.W. from halfway around the world, that snake understands that the left in America is right now his constituency and his ally.
When he loses the left, he might as well bang his head terminally.
(the symbolism is precious and outstanding - Chavez at the UN holding a book by idiot Chomsky)
DP111,
If my memory is correct, I think I have had bookmarked that website that you have posted. True, India has taken a beating from the Muslims. But other then for the Bombay train bombing, what has been going on in the Kashmir, ete., the bigger news focus has been made towards the attacks made against the west by the Muslims thanks in part by the msn.
Pelayo,
You are being singled out, I’m not sure why but don’t concern yourself with anyone who cant spell you name right.
PONG,
My, My, we dropped the bomb on a people who were actively engaged in bio warfare (search= Unit 731) and it was a mistake? Who is the bigger monster, the Bombardier of the Enola Gay or those who would sit by while the Black Plague was spread around the world?
Ot but fuuny,
http://www.dashboardmohammed.com/store.html
I am trying hard not to order one. I wouldn't want to appear islamaphobic.
David Matthews said
Would anyone care to argue that the West is a peace-loving civilization?
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that the West is a paragon of virtue or that in the past Western religious and civic institutions did not have blood on their hands. The point is David that as a civilization we have learned from the past and amended our societies so that gratuitous behavior is controlled through checks and balances and are maintained by the the rule of law with the emphasis being on man made law.
Your equivalence arguments have no credibility simply because of the fact that Islamic society is incapable of amending their own society’s legal and moral structures. The reason they are unable to do this is that the laws which govern Islamic societies are not open to amendment as they are believed to be the literal word of allah. Granted theological discussion does take place in trying to interpret particular commands but in some versus the meaning is very explicit, sura 9.29 for example. It is for this reason and this reason alone that we see the world wide conflict we have today.
The following is taken from your homepage and I assume is meant to reflect your own personal views.
May the Day Come When All the People of the World Choose to Live in Peace with God, Nature and Humankind. Until That day Comes I Choose to Live at Peace with All and Refuse to Hate Anyone.
What is painfully obvious here is that your moral equivalence glasses do not allow you to recognize right from wrong or civility vs barbarity, by trying to live in peace with all even those who commit evil you show your self to be a coward. Therefore as a consequence of your deluded thinking and cowardice you indirectly aid the Islamists who will want to see you living under only their particular god. Or it could be possible that by you saying God within your statement you actually mean allah.
Anyway if you are going to post here you are going to have to come up with a lot better than that, your last post was just nauseating.
David...I firmly believe in freedom of speech. An idiot should always be allowed to express his views. Welcome to JW/DW...
You have the 'Christian God' confused with government. All of your complaints were perpetrated by governments, the US or others. I will be the first (maybe) to tell you that governments, ALL of them, everywhere, everywhen, are the enemies of humanity. Who else runs around killing people with bombs and battleships? If you dont believe that, count the dead bodies. The US is NOT a Christian Government. The US operates outside Christianity. The Holy Bibical commandments do not apply to secular governments that I know of.
Islam is just another government. Or at least a government wanna be. An enemy of humanity. The Quran 'does' dictate behavior with Islamic governments and Sharia law dominates.
The Government of Allah has killed/murdered millions and continues to do so to this day.
I would agree that crusaders and others have committed many atrocities in the name of God...but that is their problem. The Christian God did not instruct them to act in that manner. But Allah DOES instruct jihadists in the art of jihad and makes it obligatory for all muslims...So David if you want to hold governments responsible for carnage, I am with you. If you want to blame the Christian God...we part company...cheers...
"Well, do you believe in freedom of religion or not?"-Mathews
Start with Saudi Arabia. Personally, I think freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, must be practiced everywhere-especially in Muslim countries. The free exercise of religion (including conversion)is not permitted in Muslim countries. Freedom of conscience in religion (or non-religious belief) is not a critical problem in the USA-and you know that.
After you demand that Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries give full freedom of religious practice (to Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, Christian, Atheist etc.)and freedom of conscience to all non-Muslims in Muslim countries, I'll believe you are an honest soul. Otherwise, I don't suffer bullshit artists very well.
Deal with the problem where it is critical. Don't be deceptive.
kamala -
Thank you, I have done that as well. Maybe if papers and individuals who write these things get good feedback and see that there is an interest, they will continue. That is my hope. I may be a 'nobody' at a computer screen, but whatever I can do to help in this battle we're in, I will do.
Has anyone else noticed an upsurge in Islamic humor recently?
Friday night - Jay Leno joked there have been so many Taliban deaths lately, Allah can now provide only one virgin for 72 jihadists. “Yuck! I’d hate to be number 71” he quipped.
Saturday night - Mad TV: first a spoof music-video with the Dixie Chicks dressed in burqas. Later, an animated “children’s” cartoon had the Pope beheaded by an angry Muslim with a scimitar. Then a “bridge” was built between Islam and Christianity (as the Pope wanted) and the Muslims simply ran across the bridge to invade and kill more Christians. (Priceless!)
It will be interesting to see if there’s any Muslim Outrage over this; or are we finally starting to see the exercise of our freedom of speech/humor?
David Mathews, One last response - This forum is not Crusade Watch or Re-Hash the Past Watch or I Hate Americans Watch. The subject is islam and the current resurgence of jihad with all its inherent violence.
Pelayo,
He moved to the next article and changed names
Mr Spencer and others. Sometimes I wonder if you are really serious about saving the west from Islam.
The reason is that you antagonize, demonize, call names to anyone and any publication or media outlet that doesn't whole hog embrace you and your knowledge.
Every think that the Philadelphia Enquirer editors are merely ignorant of Islam, and not dhimmi's. The same of course is true of CNN, the NYT and Washington Post and includes personages whom you choose to disparage and antagonize.
Most here, especially myself, remember how ignorant we were of Islam, how misguided we were till we bit into their texts, until we read books like yours, or listened to arguments from sources other than CAIR and the apologetists (muslim or dhimmi).
Point is Robert that in your spate of self righteousness, you alienate people who could be or would otherwise be allies..how does one make allies or educate anyone when one proceeds by hurling insults, epithets and threats.
And for the radical (antiliberal) right wingers, bear that in mind when you jump on your self righteous horse. and play choir to divisive, irrational, and self defeating muck rackers like Limpballs, Oreilly, Savage, Hannity, Pat Roberts, Jerry Falwell.
We need every warm body that we can reach in this paramount struggle, but how we can we reach anyone, change their mind, when you hurl epithets, ridicule, demonize and threaten them.
You can't win a war fighting battles on two fronts..especially when the most important front is within your own house..A house divided cannot stand.. Matthew 12:25, and Abraham LIncoln.
Threatening, demonizing, alienating peoples who by all rights should be allies and friends is not the way to unite a peoples.. just look at Iraq where muslim are killing muslim.
Ah Dave, the classic leftist with all the leftist talking points.
In the great wars, the violence was organized by presidents and generals to settle land disputes. Their respective religions had no bearing on their actions. The soldiers had no interest in fighting personally other than to see their country win. They all wanted to go home otherwise. There was no hatred. It was impersonal killing. No hatred, no religous intolerance, no rape, no murder, and the killing was one by soldiers to soldiers. It was not a bunch of French civilians killing German civilians in German towns. It was not a muslim-style war. Don't even think of talking about Hitler. He was not a Christian, he was a pagan, and he was a muslim-lover who rued the fact that mohammedism did not convert all of Europe for Christianity had made Germany soft.
The muslims kill because their holy book commands it. And their holy book commands it because it was written by a pedophile suffering from a bi-polar disorder at a time when lithium wasn't around. That's unfortunate for the hundreds of millions of non-muslims, all civilians, slaughtered by muslims, all civilians themselves.
There's the rub. When a muslim kills, he never wears a uniform, he just goes out of his house and butchers somebody who isn't a muslim. Doesn't matter who, just anybody, a woman, a child, a nun, makes no difference to a muslim.
Or, he may butcher a muslim because he is not the right muslim. As if there could ever be a right muslim.
In the west, someone that does that is called a spree killer and the police hunt him down and then we execute him.
In islam, someone that does that is called a soldier for allah and a good muslim.
But ultimately you are missing the point. The point is that wars exist in all cultures. But the wars you mention are not of cultures, but of nations. Nations have leaders and leaders have disputes.
In islam, you have no nation. Islam is not a nation, it is not even a race. It is a religion. And as a religion, it sheds blood.
That is the rub. That is what makes it unique. It sheds blood, and it targets civilians, for the exclusive purpose of not tolerating their religion.
But you know all this intuitively. All one has to do to know that islam is despicable is look at the nations that are islamic; look at the filth, look at the internal violence, look at the crime, look at their education, look at their I.Q, look at their personal hygiene, look at their GDP, look at their technological prowess, look at their laws, look at the status of their women, look at their civil rights and lack therof, look at who they execute, look at why they execute, look at any facet of the muslim world and you will recoil in disgust.
So is too far a stretch to believe that perhaps, maybe just perhaps, the one common denominator of all those muslims nations is their religion, and that it is the religion that makes them bad?
Still, the leftist talking points are made on cue. But why, pray tell, do you bother doing so on a site where we are educated on these little itsy-bitsy nuances?
Nariz-
How come there is no free exercise of religion in Saudi Arabia? Why can't a Jew, a Hindu, an atheist, a Christian, a Buddhist, proclaim openly their belief-systems? Why can't people openly convert to another religion in Saudi Arabia and try to persuade others to their non-Muslim beliefs there? Why can't they have the same freedom to preach in Saudi Arabia as all (including Muslims)have in the USA?
Tgusa.
“My, My, we dropped the bomb on a people who were actively engaged in bio warfare (search= Unit 731) and it was a mistake?”
It is a dirty trick to say something and claim it was said by someone else and then argue with your own statement.
From what I said it is quite clear that those events were viewed as a necessary evil, or mistake.
Although my personal view that it was a necessity, other views are also have their place.
When you write a post, please let your head swell not your balls.
Nariz-
I'd like a straight non-deceptive answer to my question. Why can't folks freely and openly practice other religions and proclaim their beliefs in Saudi Arabia as they can in the USA?
Curious that matthews disappeared, and nariz ahowed up to lend him support.
Save your Christian-hating war for AFTER the REAL war is over, nariz the muslim troll.
If you can wait 20-30 years.
Nariz get off your high horse, if you have a problem with the way Robert provides access to his work or opinions you always have the freedom to get it from elsewhere.
Also where do you get off with a statement like,
And for the radical (antiliberal) right wingers, bear that in mind when you jump on your self righteous horse. and play choir to divisive, irrational, and self defeating muck rackers like Limpballs, Oreilly, Savage, Hannity, Pat Roberts, Jerry Falwell.
Were it not for the so called right wingers, the Muslims with their lefty-liberal enablers would of stormed the barricades years ago. Stay on topic this is jihad watch, not right wing watch or Christianity watch.
...look at their laws, look at the status of their women, look at their civil rights and lack therof, look at who they execute, look at why they execute, look at any facet of the muslim world and you will recoil in disgust.
You fashist piece of shit, werent you the one advocating industrial killing on this site?
I recoil in disgust at the likes of you. 60 years ago you would have been nibbling on Hitler left testicle and now you just found the convinient enemy to project all your hate, your depravity, your ugliness and remorseless existence on. You are a sheep and a wolve at the same type.
Finally, the media gets one right. Now if we can get more pieces like this one maybe it'll show that the West is finally waking up and getting it.
Wow the trolls keep comming.
Karim-83 prove to us that the following statement is not true.
...look at their laws, look at the status of their women, look at their civil rights and lack therof, look at who they execute, look at why they execute, look at any facet of the muslim world and you will recoil in disgust.
Ill wager that you can not, and like the little Muslim savage that you are you resort to name calling and threats, typical Islamo-psychosis.
Hmmm. Three muslim trolls in one thread: matthews, nariz, karim.
Just wondering, but don't they usually come out in force when they need to distract us from something important that is going on?
Of course it could just be ramadan celebrations...
You would never praise Hitler I agree. But you would
continue his "life work", that is killing on a massive scale. Stalin dindnt like Hitler. What is your point?
Since you probably have no… (never mind I won’t stoop to your level) I will give you a chance to let your head swell, Whom do you refer to that believe the bomb was a necessary evil, or mistake? Wait don’t bother, I already know the answer.
karim-83, don’t you have a puppy to kill somewhere?
It looks like the murderous behaviors of the muslims are doing a great job in waking up the Free World.
In my opinion this process is going a bit too slowly but...better late than never !
I recoil in disgust at the likes of you.
That just made my day. I destroyed your leftist talking points and made my mark on your pysche.
As the muslims would say,
lalalalalalalalalal
The sun has broken through the clouds here. There'a a rainbow overhead. What a wonderful world.
Atleast it is on my non-muslim street. I'm going for a stroll with the butterflies.
Uh, fascinating.
"FASHIST"
that's truly original.
I meant: fashinating...
Atleast it is on my non-muslim street.
Posted by: August22
It is a shame when that simple statement brings a vision of serenity.
Just one more thing, before I go for a stroll.
A "fashist" is someone who controls what people wear - the fashion police. And in what countries do you think such police can be found? Think hard now.
You have made a mark alright. But it is more of a shit streak. There are people like you in abundance.
Hate is really not so special and it has nothing to do with thinking.It is the easiest and cheapest emotion in fact. You know the saying," you become what you hate". Welcome to hell then.
Hate is really not so special INDEED.
There are at least 1.2 billions haters who spend their time chanting DEATH TO AMERICA DEATH TO ISRAEL every friday.
Not to speak about some hundreds of thousands of subversive idiots in the West who hate the West and Freedom exactly like they muslim brothers do.
Exactly like THEIR muslim brothers PIMF
You would never praise Hitler I agree. But you would continue his "life work", that is killing on a massive scale. Stalin dindnt like Hitler. What is your point?
Posted by: karim-83 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2006 01:42 PM
What is your point Karim-83, is the West just supposed to lay down and let Islam destroy it. Know this Karim we will kill as many as is necessary until you Muslims understand that you cannot come into the West and attack or remove our institutions and culture through Dawa or Jihad.
The West is waking up and so if I were you, I would move back to Ummah before you get forcefully put back there.
"There are at least 1.2 billions haters who spend their time chanting DEATH TO AMERICA DEATH TO ISRAEL every friday."
Really, is that true? Come on and prove it. 1.2 billion people come out every day and chant death to American and death to Israel. From Indonesia to the Balkan. What a ridiculous statement from a ridiculous person.
I know I know, I must prove that muslims chant DEATH TO ISRAEL DEATH TO AMERICA.
I must prove that the Earth is not flat, that we got on the Moon in 69, that antibiotics are not against the teachings of Muhammad the pedophile...
ETC ETC
Sorry, get a brain somewhere. Maybe in a sale at WalMart...
Hate is really not so special and it has nothing to do with thinking.It is the easiest and cheapest emotion in fact.
That will be why it is so prevelant in Islam then, Islam the religion of mysogyny, child abuse and savagery.
karim.83, the number 83 is that how many hairs you have in your nose? islam is a facists cult, hitler and stalin were both facists. the little muffy from Jerusleum was in bed with hitler's men.
islam is a controling cult, and loves their children dead, no wonder your women have to be breeders all their life. muslims kill more muslims. We just to get you penned in your cesspool countries, and muslims do the work for civilized nations. it seems muslims love killing and pratice early on with defenseless animals. then to prove your so manly you beat up on your women. yeah brave muslims.
And I must prove that on September Eleven nineteen racist bigots attacked unarmed innocent civilians and killed nearly Three Thousand People, using our Freedom in the only way that the muslims are showing themselves able to use it: to kill, to maim, to destroy.
And after doing all that, they want US to behave.
Sorry babies, YOU ended the time of "behaving".
Well, you have a problem now. I am ethnically more European then Arab(that is Palestinian), so where do I go and I live in Europe? Your wonderfull civilized nation is so fond of occupation and human right violations, that I am astounded by you civility every day. Killing innocent civillians doesnt seem to scratch your moral superiorty(again like Hitler). And Fed Up, I dont expect you to understand. Trust me, coming from you its not an insult.
Hate is such an ugly word, I do not hate muslims I pity them. In almost 1400 years they have yet to have a single accomplishment they can point too and be proud of. True they are the biggest killers of muslims but are they really proud of that? They are good at blaming others, changing subjects, distracting others and inventing history but what have they contributed to mankind? Although they claim to fight for the next life, when you watch one die they are terrified. In the final seconds they seem to question if paradise awaits or hell. So much for commitment.
What do muslims dads say to their children? Little mohammad you will have an explosive impact on others. Alisha you will make a fantastic sex slave for my brothers and uncles.
Just kidding muslims would never encourage their children to murder or enslave them. All those reports must be in error.
David Matthews -
Islam is a political faith. It makes no real distinction between church and state. Basically, in Islam, Spiritual strength is supposed to equate to Temporal power. The lasts words of Mohammed were, 'I have been commanded to fight men until my religion has been established and everybody worships Allah.' It seeks to GOVERN, and the laws it seeks to impose were set down in the 7th century. Those laws advocate gender aparteid, death to critics, death to apostates and the witness of women and non-muslims are often severely discounted. Despite the political character of this faith, our Islamic friends, and those who enable them (like YOU!) have determined that any honest criticism of that system and the genocidal rapist pedophile who brought them is somehow unsavory or even "Racist" (even though Islam is not a "Race"). Why do you suppose Islam is trying so hard to enact laws that make it a crime to criticize someone's religion and threaten death to anyone that does so? Could it be that they don't want this "system" to be fully examined or discussed, as is the wont of westerners - particularly when the matter discussed has a strong political component?
Go watch the movie
http://neoconcommandcenter.blogspot.com/2006/09/putting-it-back-into-context.html
FORTY years of muslim terrorism from the Philippines to Chechenya, from Italy to Madrid and London, from NewYork to Bali, from Israel to Kashmir.
And the trolls preach that the Free World must behave.
Late, little babies, late.
YOU have taken the JINN out of the lamp, NOW you get the payback.
See the long list of people murdered and wounded by the muslims in the last few years, worldwide at
http://thereligionofpeace.com
scroll down the page
Gary-
No matter what their beliefs (Muslim, leftist, whatever)people like Nariz and Mathews practice deception. I am surprised we did not see nonsense about "Zionist racism" from these twisters of reality. Jews and Arabs are Semite Caucasians and yet the Israelis are accused of "racism" by clowns like these two-while real racism is encouraged and practiced by Arabs in the genocide of black Africans in Darfur.
If I were an Israeli, I would propose that the "Palestinians" be evicted from the West Bank and Gaza and the Black Africans be brought in to live next door to Israel for the safety of both. I'm sure everybody in the Knesset (Arabs included) would agree the idea is imaginative.
n almost 1400 years they have yet to have a single accomplishment they can point too and be proud
Oh no! Except for advances in almost every field of science and practically developing mathematics(yes Algebra is an arabic word), navigation, astronomy, architecture,philosphy(ibn rushd anyone?) ecs ecs and giving your the numbers and decimal system you use to day. I suppose nothing.
I am ethnically more European then Arab(that is Palestinian), so where do I go and I live in Europe?
The question should be are you Muslim, if you are then go back to the Umma.
karim-83
"You fashist piece of shit, werent you the one advocating industrial killing on this site?
I recoil in disgust at the likes of you. 60 years ago you would have been nibbling on Hitler left testicle and now you just found the convinient enemy to project all your hate, your depravity, your ugliness and remorseless existence on. You are a sheep and a wolve at the same type."
Hilter had only one testicle, and his historic allies where muslims , Muslim do not get to appropriate what What Hitler did to Jews as a defense for what muslims are required to do to none muslims you lunitic.
Henry: you are quite right, but the source of the first of the quotations you mention is not Jesus but John the Baptist. Not that that changes much, since St.John the Baptist's statements are authoritative to any Christian.
David Matthews: my guess about his real name is something like Daoud el-Matthai. Seriously, though, what strikes me is the ease with which he rolls out his pseudo-historical arguments, along with the sheer horror he feels that someone might disagree. He is clearly the product of some detestable academic Ivory Tower stained with blood, where discussion is not invited or tolerated and texts serve purely to support the prevailing mindset. I am sad to have to say this, but the average educated Muslim would not be so familiar with all the subversive self-hating trash he airs with such confidence. They get it at second hand, but he clearly is at the centre of its elaboration. And speaking for myself, I frankly detest him, not even as a Catholic, a Westerner, or a free man, but as a historian: as a testimony of the degradation and prostitution of our learning.
n almost 1400 years they have yet to have a single accomplishment they can point too and be proud
karim-83
Oh no! Except for advances in almost every field of science and practically developing mathematics(yes Algebra is an arabic word), navigation, astronomy, architecture,philosphy(ibn rushd anyone?) ecs ecs and giving your the numbers and decimal system you use to day. I suppose nothing.
Conquering other cultures with violence then claiming their advancments is not an accomplishment in itself all the "muslim advances" are myths, every one of them.
Don't worry, soon you will be caught in some muslim neighbourhood with explosives and you will be jailed and hopefully sent back home to crapistan...
In a box hopefully, one lined generously with porcine offal.
My last sentence was not very clear. What I meant is: I am revolted by the mentality of David Matthews. And this is not because I am a Catholic, a Westerner, or a lover of freedom, but because I am a historian, and this man's mind is living witness to the prostitution of our traditions of learning. He makes the discipline I love into a nauseous cesspool of excuses for his hatred of freedom, Christianity and his country.
Even you cant change history! What on earth is this? Ofcourse the Islamic civilization was advanced, ofcourse they made advances in science and art.No more discussion is neccesary. Everything else is just low.
They are so boring.
They say they have invented things they didn't (they stole them from real civilizations, like India)and in any case they quote things of 1000 years ago. Ibn Rashid ? DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE LAST 1000 YEARS OF PHILOSOPHY ?
Can you quote to me anything from Pascal, Heidegger, Husserl, Voltaire ? Do you think phenomenology is a brand of soap ?
Where is your Renaissance ?
Where is your Michelangelo ? Mozart ? Beethoven ?
ALGEBRA ? And what am I supposed to do with it ? Have you have heard about calculus ? Leibniz ? Descartes ? Bertrand Russell ?
Do you now anything about microchips ?
Do you think a teraflop is a show gone really bad in Broadway ?
ARCHITECTURE ? What do you call architecture ? Slamming jets into buildings ?
Navigation ? Astronomy ?
WE ARE ON MARS, savages !
I am revolted by the mentality of David Matthews. And this is not because I am a Catholic, a Westerner, or a lover of freedom, but because I am a historian, and this man's mind is living witness to the prostitution of our traditions of learning. He makes the discipline I love into a nauseous cesspool of excuses for his hatred of freedom, Christianity and his country.
Posted by: Paolo [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 1, 2006 02:15 PM
Damn I wish I had written that, well said sir!
http://www.kafirnation.com/myth2.htm#civ
No you idiot, the numbers you use are West Arabic, while Arabs use the Eastern script. Indians didnt give you the numbers, they gave you the zero. Your education must be pretty high if you confidently delcare Ibn Sina to be the only Muslim thinker, which is just complete idiotic nonsense. Anyway, he was rehabilitated in his lifetime and that was during the decline of Islamic civilization.How long did it take for the Church to recognize Gallileo?
Oh god, just another Assyrian Idiot thinking he is the only native and confusing Arab with Muslim! Did
anyone ever tell this person that Arab is not an ethnic term and NO these populations were not annihilated they convereted and became ARABIZED, speaking Arabic instead of Áramaic and Coptic. Genetics says it all.
Oh sorry, he is not Assyrian. Just an Idiot.
And that hat ends our presentation "proving Islam is a mental disease"
The numbers we use are Indian numbers, the Indians didn't give them to me directly because the muslim invasion had already closed all the roads of the once rich cultural communications between the West and Asia.
And you are funny: you say that the Indians gave us ONLY the zero but that the muslims have "invented" algebra. Muslims have "invented" only the anme of it, HOW THERE COULD BE ALGEBRA WITHOUT THE ZERO ?
But evidently you are too ignorant about everything to understand this.
And, speaking about muslim "philosophy" (of course a joke, since you cannot speak freely without being killed by your imams) I could ask why the greatest center of muslim philosophical studies, the Institute of Henri Corbin in Iran , has been closed as soon as the islamic republic rose.
But you probably ignore even the name of Henri Corbin.
The mad mullahs didn't like the fact that Corbin and the Scholars of his Institute were developing a deep study of islam in which all the roads for massacres and killings were closed.
They needed the good old islam instead, to stone young girls (of course, you can't stone virgins in islam, so they raped them before stoning them)and move war against Freedom and the West.
Keep on talking.
In a few years on the blogs, all my troll opponents have talked so much that they have helped me to explain the details of the horrors of islam to tens of thousand of Readers.
karim-83,
Any rational person doing even a little research would be deeply ashamed to claim the title of muslim. You can deny historical facts but not change them. Enough victims of islamic persecution survived and wrote about their fate. We are onto this menace and preparing. I am islams worst nightmare an armed, free thinking American, dedicated to the Ideals of my forefathers and I value individualism over slavery.
Although I am not from Missouri I say “show me”. Show me a benefit to islam, just one. Your children are murdering animals, your daughters and sisters, sexual slaves. Your entire economic base was established, built and in most cases operated by your betters. So show me, something, anything, or be an adult and question what you have been taught and attempt to fix it. Any muslim who claims to be a moderate and is not actively working to end radical islam is self delusional. Show me, translate web pages, inform on radicals in your neighborhood or start a non wahabbi mosque. If you do some research and still hate us and you are still convinced your way is the right way then be a man and head to iraq. Lacking that you are a self delusional liar or a coward. Your choice, it is your life but show me something.
I have to admitt, you are right. The numbers do have their origin in the Gwalior script. Just looked it up before you. But still, what is your point? Every culture takes from the other and builds on it. Since when is that stealing? It is the normal way of history.What is Christianity, if not a ripoff from Judaism, a Middle Eastern Religion,mixed with a good dose of paganism, to soot Roman tastes?
Finally, a newspaper article that is starting to call a spade... a spade. A step in the right direction. We can not find a solution if we fail to correctly identify the problem. More of this is needed.
Folks,
I think this thread has been hijacked by a troll or a group of trolls, who take on the nics of David Mathews, Nariz, and Karim-83.
I hope Robert or Hugh will ban the troll(s) soon.
Just ignore them and they will not futher hijack this thread.
Ofocurse Muslims will admitt that they based their works on Platon,Hippocrates,Aristotle ecs and that
they eagerly read the knowledge of civilizations they conquered. It is in every history book. Their achievement was that they build and vastly improved on this knowledge.
ronin,
A minor correction.
Your active duty buddies can comment here.
Typekey doesn't identify who they are.
Perhaps some of your buddies should post here, so that others can know, first hand, what the troops really think.
PRCS
USN (Ret)
I have to admitt, you are right. The numbers do have their origin in the Gwalior script. Just looked it up before you. But still, what is your point?
The point is Karim that this is not the only thing about Islam which is based on a falsehood. You are defending a savage ideological engine of war that subjugates it's victims through a dehumanizing process.
You are defending the indefensible and as such propagating the evil.
Bigcatgirl
you're right.
The trolls keep repeating slogans and don't speak about facts.
It is enough to look at ANY muslim country in the last 10 centuries and compare it with the West...THAT (that is, that NADA, NOTHING) is the "big improvement" that islam contributed to the world civilization.
But they kill you if you say that in public.
THAT is the islamic "civilization".
Nariz:
You say: "The reason is that you antagonize, demonize, call names to anyone and any publication or media outlet that doesn't whole hog embrace you and your knowledge."
I don't believe I mentioned myself in this post in anything I said about the Inquirer. Please quote examples of my doing this.
You say: "And for the radical (antiliberal) right wingers, bear that in mind when you jump on your self righteous horse. and play choir to divisive, irrational, and self defeating muck rackers like Limpballs, Oreilly, Savage, Hannity, Pat Roberts, Jerry Falwell."
Please provide specific quotes in which I have promoted any of the people you have named. Some of them have been kind enough to have me on their shows. Some haven't. In actuality that's the extent of my dealings with any of them.
You say: "We need every warm body that we can reach in this paramount struggle, but how we can we reach anyone, change their mind, when you hurl epithets, ridicule, demonize and threaten them."
I said the Inquirer was reliably dhimmi. I stand by that. I don't think that is either ridiculing or demonizing. It is describing matters as I see them. Please provide a specific quote in which I have ever threatened anyone.
You say: "Threatening, demonizing, alienating peoples who by all rights should be allies and friends is not the way to unite a peoples.. just look at Iraq where muslim are killing muslim."
You are making a serious charge in saying I am threatening someone. Please specify, or take your slanders elsewhere.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
bigcatgirl13106,
Where do you think the liberal reporters get their material? They visit sites just like this one and read the articles and comments. They maybe liberals but they can recognize a muslim smokescreen when they see one. The trolls give us a reason to counter the same tired muslim propaganda the press normally runs without questioning the source or the sources agenda. We need the trolls. I would rather they run Robert and Hughs articles but even if they wanted to do so their liberal bosses wouldn’t let them. Here they can develop articles using both sides of the arguments. Look at how many posts are on this thread. Proof positive people are taking notice. I only post on this blog but have seen comments from it on many others. We have at least one more reporter convinced islam is a threat. A journey of a thousand miles starts but with a single step.
n almost 1400 years they have yet to have a single accomplishment they can point too and be proud
Oh no! Except for advances in almost every field of science and practically developing mathematics(yes Algebra is an arabic word), navigation, astronomy, architecture,philosphy(ibn rushd anyone?) ecs ecs and giving your the numbers and decimal system you use to day. I suppose nothing.
Posted by: karim-83
Navigation ? Yes, I get it, after all muslims did discover America. Astronomy ? You stole the science from some culture nearby, but it is so messed up now that your ramadan falls all through the year. You are celebrating in Oct., and in 1995, you were celebrating in April. Some years from now, you will be back to Apr, again. Architecture ? So that is why all the mosques look like Byzantine cathedrals. And 90% of muslims live under tin roofs. Yeah, beautiful architecture.
Advances in science indeed. Following a paedophile murderer looter blindly is about it. And all the booty that you got, you are trying to brandish now. Only, your achievements sound so hollow. And, unfortunately, the butchery that you did is not enough to convince the world now that you are just that ; followers of a paedophile, murderer, rapist and looter.
Hi Dave. How's the band?
We were born in a war. We will always be fighting. Don't worry about us being a peaseful nation. We aren't. We have been fighting for 400 years. Our Marines were invented from a battle with pirates of the Middle East. Our birth started as a revolution throwing of the Yoke of Oppression. We will do it again. We know what it looks like. It looks like Islam.
God willing, of course.
Yo Naseem, you got a job yet?
PRCS,
You are right they could but most will not they are trained to follow orders even ones that don't always make sense. By admitting they are on active duty any posts would be considered as coming from a government spokesperson. I wouldn’t take the risk if I were them. It would fuel the muslim propaganda machine. It follows the same logic that we can not use Psychological Operations troops here at home. It is not the military’s job to use propaganda on Americans. I see your retired and already know this, this is more for the benefit of the others.
You might add one more value of islam to your diary. You make your kids saw off the heads of animals. It is the basic part of being muslim ; and yes, we are all going to understand how important this act is, and how much of our science is based upon it, the act of emulating al-insan, al-kamil.
Who invited the morally inferior to this jihad watching party anyway? The truth about Islam is starting to reach the masses, and this article by Jonathan Last is a latest example. There are no redeeming qualities to Islam, unless one believes that women are second class citizens, that men can engage in perverted sexual practices, or it is O.K. to kill those who do not believe. This is not a clash between civilizations, but rather a clash for civilization.
There is no question that Christianity and Western enlightened civilization have produced the best that humanity has to offer, and that it is still the best hope for the future advancement of mankind. Islam is an inferior, stagnating and retrograding belief system that has no place in the world of tomorrow. I hope I live to see it wiped out of existence.
My name is my wish -- Cross over crescent moon.
If Islamic culture is as good as these trolls say, then I can hardly wait to move to Palestine and enjoy Islamic paradise...Somalia might make a great second choice...
David Mathews:
You accuse us of "egregious historical ignorance".
If you want to use such words against someone, please do it while looking in a mirror. You are clearly relying on prescripted versions of history that are designed to support foregone conclusions. If you want to know the facts of history, look at the primary documents written by eyewitnesses to the methods used by Islamic expansionism and the handling of non-Muslim peoples under Islamic domination. There you will find violence, slavetrading and oppression that beggars the worst atrocities committed by Christendom. Much, if not most, of the violence you castigate Catholic history for, including the brutality of the Spanish inquisition, was a response to centuries of aggressive and unprovoked attacks by Islamic armies who, not content to destroy Christianity in
the Middle East and North Africa, brought their Jihad to Spain (resulting in over 800 years of brutal occupation), France, Italy, Sicily, Greece and the Balkans throughout the 8th and 9th centuries.
You take the West to task brutally for its imperialist violence, but do you have any idea of the kind of sadistic violence committed by the Imperial Japanese in China? Do you think that other societies, given the opportunities that opened up before the West over the last 300 years would have acted more virtuously, committing fewer crimes than Western powers did if they'd been ascendant during this period? If you think so, you are either completely ignorant of the facts of history, or completely mad! Even pre-colonial aboriginal societies, whom fuzzy-headed liberals like you hold up as denizens of unsullied paradises, committed appalling violence within their respective societies and against their rivals.
The facts of history, which are available but have evaded you (or which you simply don't want to know), suggest that if the Muslim world, led by the kind of fundamentalist fanatics now taking control of it, had been the first to develop the bomb, they would have used it not to end a viscious war of aggression by bombing two enemy cities, but would have unleashed it on a global scale.
Get with the reality of what's happening all over the world today before your very eyes, and stop bending over in these gruelling ass-backwards mental gymnastics designed to justify your cringing mental state of desparate denial. History, if Islamist aggression doesn't first bring an end to it, will condemn those who think like you as surely as it condemns Neville Chamberlin and others in the West who stubbornly refused to see the reality of what Naziism was.
I too have been enamored in the past of ideas such as you are spouting, and perhaps a great many others who post here were at one time as well, but we have recognized that these ideas aren't working and the world can't go on this way, any more than it did when it was a matter of trying to explain away and philosophize over the Nazi threat in the 1930s. Its time you and others in your camp woke up as well.
well, it seems to be getting a bit bloody in here, but yes the Philly article is encouraging, and it will be interesting to see how the fundies react.
and i agree with everyone who has said that this is really a war of Muslims against the rest. in the West, we really need to understand that Hindus and Buddhists have just as much history with Muslims as we have, and more. and we need to show more understanding towards Christians in the Balkans and elsewhere whose histories were for so long shaped by Muslim rule - read how Rome so often worked to weaken Constantinople, and weep.
it has long been a popular theme of science fiction that if a race of blood-crazed aliens arrived on earth to subdue humanity, then we would finally unite to fight the common foe, develop new technologies, and eventually find a new common destiny in the stars. well, maybe one day we will get lucky and a race of blood-crazed aliens will arrive, but until then i think we will have to make do with Muslims.
I think the trolls have made a retreat, hard facts, logical argument and cognitve-dissonance I am sure begin to hurt after a while, especially if your critical thinking skills have been crafted from following the koran.
"Every culture takes from the other and builds on it. Since when is that stealing?"
Posted by Karim-83
Yes, Karim, but every culture does not impose the kind of repressive restrictions on the other and slowly strangle it to death with them while using the wealth and experience that it provides as Islam does with the "dhimma" that it imposes. What restrictions Christianity did once impose on Judaism were less harsh than Islamic measures against them, and modern Christians have renounced them in favour of wide-open religious liberty. In the Umma, this repression continues, even though we in the West are good enough to welcome Muslims into our lands and let them practice their culture and "religion" unmolested. If its not "stealing", it is EVIL nonetheless!
Get with the reality of what's happening all over the world today before your very eyes, and stop bending over in these gruelling ass-backwards mental gymnastics designed to justify your cringing mental state of desparate denial.
Ouch
Bigcatgirl
Sorry, you're wrong. During the Muslim invasion of India, and the Moghul empire that followed it, something between 70 and 100 million Indians were killed, many thousands of Temples and places of learning were destroyed.
In the past five years, India has suffered more Islamic terror attacks than any other country in the world. Sure, Iraq is fast overhauling it - but India's had it the worst - and they seem to have a special kind of sadism when they make attacks against Hindus and Sikhs.
The thing is - we don't get to hear about it. Our MSM keeps us in a dreadful state of ignorance about anything that's not directly related to us and our interests (I'm Brit. By us I mean the Western world), and even that is only on a country-by-country basis - you hear more about attacks on Americans, we hear more about attacks on Brits, Russians about Russia etc. This keeps us all from realising that we're all in this together, and especially India, so internationally, it never occurs to us to get organised for this war - and a war it is - on a world-wide basis. Why the American and British administrations are so buddy-buddy with Pakistan I'll never understand. INDIA is our natural ally in that part of the world (yes, I know - "but you would say that wouldn't you; you Brits are known to be fond of India".), and India is becoming increasingly a part of the Western world on a day-by-day basis. It's got nothing to do with geography - witness Japan as a part of the Western world. If we don't hang together, then Islam will surely hang us all separately.
Please, please, I really really don't want to argue with an ally, or give you offence. But your post above was just wrong in fact. I don't just pay lip service to Religion of Peace's records of Islamic Terror Attacks lists since 9/11, by scanning my eye over them every now and again - I've read every single entry word for word - India gets it the worst. At one point when I was in the middle of reformatting them in Word for easier reading, I was even dreaming about them (truth), and they were disturbing my sleep. I still can't get my mind off them for long. I sometimes fear I may have, as we Brits say, "done my head in" by reading them all in detail. They are bloody horrifying. Go to Reconquista, and email me, and I'll send them to you in my reformatted files. If you're not into reading 284 pages A4, I'll just send you my "SPECIALS" file. That's only 47 pages. I compiled it so I could show people the perversion of morality that we're up against. It is decidedly not pleasant reading, and should definitely be kept out of the way of children. Then again - maybe not. I'll leave it to your imagination to consider what I mean by "SPECIALS". You wont be wrong. These Islamic attackers have a serious mental problem involving sadism. "Nazi-like", might about describe it. Then again - maybe not. I initially forgot to put the email link up on Reconquista, but it's there now.
Up for it? Go to:
http://gandalf-reconquista.blogspot.com/
and contact me through my name on the right-hand sidebar under Contributors. That's an open invitation to anyone.
You know, guys, trolls like them are very likely trying to set us up in such fashion as to generate the very kinds of 'quotes' that CAIR enjoys using. Remember: Respond with facts, Drop the ad-hominems and violence rhetoric.
well, it seems to be getting a bit bloody in here,
Agreed the koranimals and their sick enablers have certainly taken a beating.
\smiles approvingly at screen :-)
ronin,
The posts I would be interested in, from active duty personnel, would be what they have learned about Islam and Muslims, and what tactical/strategic errors they think have occured due to the ignorance of upper leadership concerning same.
I think our biggest error in prosecuting this 'war on terror' is that senior civilian/military leadership was, as in past conflicts, clueless about the enemy's motivation.
During the VietNam era, active duty personnel were permitted to march in anti-war rallies, so long as they were not wearing the uniform and did not identify themselves as members of the armed forces.
I don't think it would be propagandistic for those on acdu to express their anonymous points of view.
I retired many years ago. Are there instructions/directives/orders/regulations currently in effect which prohibit the troops from doing that?
arjun-sevak l think your onto something.. when the left finds out about what muslims do to animals.. like the animal rights people should be sent information of " muslims making their kids saw off the heads of animals, there is no wonder what will be unleased onto the muslim horde by the PETA crowd!
we need to show more understanding towards Christians in the Balkans and elsewhere whose histories were for so long shaped by Muslim rule -read how Rome so often worked to weaken Constantinople, and weep.
Posted by M Al-Content
I couldn't agree more. Though a Catholic, I have sometimes used the name "Patriarch Michael Cerularius" in these pages, so you can readily see the Eastern sympathy in my theological position.
I have sometimes touched on this same point myself, so thank you M Al-Content for again reminding readers of it here.
Moreover, though somewhat OT for this thread, I take this opportunity to again pitch an idea I've discussed elsewhere, namely that the Islamist threat needs to be faced down by all the non-Muslim nations of the world acting in a powerful mutual alliance and that this should certainly included nations like Russia and India, if they are willing and can be viewed as reliable. Western leaders, including the next US president (even the present one could do if he'd clear the "a-great-religion-has-been-hijacked" cobwebs out of his head), ought to be working to design this coalition and bring the rest of the world in.
namely that the Islamist threat needs to be faced down by all the non-Muslim nations of the world acting in a powerful mutual alliance and that this should certainly included nations like Russia and India,
Noble, but I fear ultimatly wishful thinking. The responsibility will fall to the Anglosphere.
As far as Muslim contrabutions to the west, they were the Johnnies-come-lately at the time because in truth the one culture that did truly saved the west were the Irish. Reember the book that came out in the 90's, "How The Irish Saved Western Civilization" ? The latter were the true preservers of ancient Greek and Roman writings and other achievements.
Zena,
I am not onto something new. They do it daily. And they eat the meat of animals who have been killed in such a way (halal). The animal rights people are silent for years (why?), and I don't have any reason to think that they will be more vocal now. This is done in every single mosque, everywhere. PETA has not even mentioned halal once. It is true, Zena, the law always bends for muslims, here as well as where you live.
" this should certainly included nations like Russia and India, if they are willing and can be viewed as reliable"
Posted by Templar
By way of clarification, for those interested, the last part of that statement ("if they are willing ...") is an editting mistake, meant originally to refer to moderate and sensible Muslims, whom I'd intended to include, but then reconsidered, as I'm becoming increasingly pessimistic that such people can be a significant or reliable hope for any improvement in the problem of Islamic violence and expansionism. I meant to delete these words, along with the reference to Muslims, but obviously left them in by mistake.
So, what I meant to say is that Russia (despite its present involvement with Iran) as well as India ought to be lobbied to join the broader front was advocating in my last post. Period.
Sorry for the confusion caused by my error.
bigcatgirl, that may be so, but St Patrick was a Brit ! (from the Bristol area, captured by Irish pirates...)
Zena,
my problem with the halal concept is that it does not just apply to animals. the halal way to kill a goat and a kuf is exactly the same...
" ... wishful thinking. The responsibility will fall to the Anglosphere"
Posted by km
I understand your reasons for saying this, but I'd suggest not ruling it out too soon. It took years to build the alliance that defeated Germany and Japan in World War II, largely because of the kind of factors that are hindering us today, including a great deal of apathy and pacifist sentiment in the United States. The USSR, which was later to become a key ally, first participated on the side of Hitler in devouring Poland and the the Nazi-Soviet defence pact, but Hitler's treachery awakened them to where their true interest lay. Beslan, Chechnya and other Russian grievances against Islamic aggression need to be used as ideological foundations in the struggle to win the Russians over. Not only that, but demographic trends in Russia, and the growing possibility of other Islamist headaches for the Russians in the future will likely continue to soften them up for this.
'Second: No matter how frightening, sometimes you must take your adversaries at their word.'
yes it takes TWO to Tango.
The west is not at war with Islam but islam is certainly at war with the west.
And that is the CORE of the Problem.
This is in fact an eternal Conflict. There is no solution that is not merely temporary, a Hudna if you like, whilst islam licks its wounds and rearms for attack. Each act of appeasement by westerners, either for violent aggression, intimidation or bowing to Islamic social demands, simply emboldens islam and generates more aggression.
Israel has learnt this long ago and because it defends itself firmly has become the pariah of western appeasers, who are happy to call for its destruction for a few moments of hudna.
Bat Ye'or has written so well about the slave state of mind of dhimmies after generations of submission to Islam, who live in a world of self abasement and quasi slavery.
But the west is actually living in a similar state without being enslaved in the land of the Ummah , simply in response to threats and intimidation. This is the tragedy , that evem with an extremely low level of threat, the west is already showing alarming levels of dhimitued.
Early experiments in the 60s showed how ordinary folk could be persuaded to give strong electric shocks to actors posing as victims, with only the lighest of psycholical pressures. And no intimidation whatsoever.
So it is with appeasement, islamists know too well that only the lighest of pressures are necessary to dhimify the west into submission.
Those who do have the guts to resist will be condemned and ostracised by the hordes of appeasers and cowards that our universities have churned out.
Its a fair point templar, only time will tell, but I would like to add and I hope no one takes this the wrong way but to be reliant on Russians just doesnt sound like good forward thinking, particulaly with their past record (No offence meant to any liberated Russians who value freedom of expression and thought).
Chechnya is a prime example, the Russians even after a crime like Beslan (a crime I actually found more heinous than 911) continue to supply arms to Islamic theocracies in the hope that they can continue to destabilize the west.
Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests'
In 2001, while he was a cardinal, he issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church's interests ahead of child safety.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369148-details/Pope+%2527led+cover-up+of+child+abuse+by+priests%2527/article.do
I'm not sure what to make of this but if it is true and there is any substance to it, then I think I can understand why Benedict wouldn't take a strong stand against islam on Christian grounds.
Why?
Because, if these allegations prove to be true, then how could it be argued that such an individual believes even the basic tenets of Christianity in the frist place?
In that case how could he invoke those tenets to protect Western Civilization?
To do so under these factors, would be a flat out lie.
But then, there is this coming out of London too:
Muslim teacher in carol concert tirade is made Ofsted inspector
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369152-details/Muslim+teacher+in+carol+concert+tirade+is+made+Ofsted+inspector/article.do
Are you people CRAZY?!
If either of these are true, then along with the White House Ramadan greetings, I'd say the class of civilzations is over.
The West simply rolled over and killed itself and the islamics simply took over what has been gifted to them!
Gary,
Does just the mere thought of what a terrorist front group CAIR may or may not do force you to surrender your right to free speech and do some voluntary self censorship? We have had enough of this tip toe through the tulips approach to murder and murderers. Violence rhetoric? Did I miss something? If you find the truth about islam presented without the sugar coating offensive you won’t like JW. Sometimes the truth hurts.
witness,
Surrender now before its too late!
The Arabs did not invent Mathematics. Mathematics has a long history of development in Greece, China, India and Mesopotamia. It is typical of Arab/Muslims to claim that Mesopotamians were Muslims. They were not.
To be fair, the Arabs did introduce the decimal number system and the concept of zero to Europe. But both these inventions were the product of Hindu mathematicians. The Arabs were the messengers rather then originators of knowledge.
The one mathematician that the Arabs claim as their own is Al-Khwarizmi. He certainly lived in the area of Baghdad but was not an Arab, but Persian. The title of his text on Algebra text on algebra, got distorted in translation to Arabic, and thus we have Algebra. But even in the field of Algebra, the Greeks and Hindus, several centuries prior to Al-Khwarizmi, were more advanced then he. For instance Al-Khwarizmi solved quadratics but these were developed by the Hindu mathematicians who gave general solutions rather then particular ones. Given the trade routes of the time, it is conceivable that Al-Khwarizmi got most of what he wrote from India. It is also conjectured that Al-Khwarizmi travelled to India to study Maths. Quite possible.
I find the Arab mentality of stealing other people's ideas and claiming it as their own, very distasteful. Though it seems to go with the general nature of Arab tribal society, where brigandage is considered a honourable profession. It is unfortunate that such a trait persists even to the modern era, and has been taken up by non-Arab Muslims in their futile attempt to be regarded as Arabs by Arabs.
Witness,
That's old news. The link you provided won't load. Here's a response from a Canon Law Attorney, Ed Peters:
"Perhaps you’ve seen recent press stories about then-Cardinal Ratzinger's "secret letter" to all bishops in May 2001 wherein the one-time head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, now Pope Benedict XVI, allegedly ordered black-out grade secrecy on ecclesiastical investigations of clergy sex abuse allegations. Depending on which version of the story you encounter, you might also hear that leaks of Church investigations will be punished with papal excommunication, that the Church claims secret jurisdiction over such cases for ten years, etc., etc.
Folks, from where I sit, it seems much ado about not much.
First, the CDF letter is so secret that it’s been posted on the Vatican website for some time now. I noticed it months ago. It’s in Latin because it is addressed to all the bishops of the world, and it is common Vatican practice to send out important communications in one common language rather than in umpteen vernacular versions. For those whose Latin is rusty, some versions of the CDF letter include links to websites that translate Latin vocabulary.
Second, the CDF letter had as one important aim to settle certain procedural questions among canonists as to which canonical crimes are “reserved” to CDF per 1983 CIC 1362, that is, which ecclesiastical offenses are considered serious enough that Rome itself could adjudicate the case instead of allowing the normal canons on penal jurisdiction to operate (e.g., 1983 CIC 1408, 1412). These canons were on the books long before the clergy sexual abuse crisis erupted, but their interpretation had been disputed. CDF’s letter cleared up much of the confusion.
Third, in extending jurisdiction over these cases to 10 years past the alleged victim’s 18th birthday, CDF actually increased the amount of time that Church officials (whether diocesan or Roman) had to prosecute these offenses. Before CDF’s letter, canonical prosecutions were complicated by unduly short statutes of limitations—the very same problem, by the way, that state prosecutions encountered in many pedophilia cases. CDF was hardly obstructing justice; it was trying to make justice more available.
Fourth, keep in mind that most ecclesiastical crimes are not crimes under civil law, and that the Church obviously legislates for the majority of cases she encounters. For most canonical offenses, then, secrecy in criminal matters (1983 CIC 1455, 1717) accomplishes several goods: 1) protecting the integrity of the investigation; 2) shielding victims from untimely or unwanted exposure; 3) protecting accused, especially the wrongly accused, from devastating publicity; and so on. Need I say that numerous civil authorities conduct secret investigations for exactly the same kinds of reasons? More importantly, though, nothing whatsoever in CDF’s letter prevents or discourages victims (or their parents) from going to the police, private attorneys, or even the press with their stories. CDF, it seems, has a lot to learn about how to obstruct justice.
Of course, a few ecclesiastical crimes are also crimes under civil law. Where two great powers overlap in a very serious matter, as happens when Church and state are confronted with evidence of child sexual abuse by priests, genuine legal and procedural questions can arise. Again, there is nothing new here. Working out the best manner of accommodating the rights and duties of both systems might require some discussion, but there are no insurmountable obstacles to doing just that. In the meantime, the process is not helped by plaintiffs’ attorneys hurling accusations of medieval secrecy at Church leaders."
Here is the link to that response:
http://www.canonlaw.info/blogarch05.htm
There you can click on the links he provides to find the actual letter.
DP111
While the Hindus were the originators of the mathmatical concept of zero, lets give the muslims credit for being the originators of the sociological concept of "zero".
pismopal
I agree. Only the Muslims know how to make much about zero and of zero. 'Much ado about nothing' sums it up.
Fedup:
I fear you may be right. They'll roll over and let Islamofascists walk all over them, yet hunt for anything to condemn hated "papists".
DP111
While the Hindus were the originators of the mathmatical concept of zero, lets give the muslims credit for being the originators of the sociological concept of "zero".
Posted by: pismopal
snortle yeeehaw!
Sir Henry Morgan
I had a look at your link.
You are to be commended for all your hard work, and I imagine it was not a job for the faint-hearted.
(Have to admit on some days I am so overloaded with anything to do with islam!)
You have all the graphs etc proving what I have been thinking. I believe we are seeing more and more aggression every day.
Many years ago there was not much in the media re islam. It was more "contained" to the "palestinian problem".
Now, as you have recorded on your site, it is a world-wide problem.
Thank you for all your hard work!
SHM
Great work BTW.
PD111/DP111
Gramfan, PD,
Thanks. It will be ongoing, with updates.
I've had one reader asking me for the raw data to check it for himself. I've asked him to mail his results back to. Be grateful if a couple of others would do the same, because I don't know that he'll mail me back.
What I'm doing has to be correct or there's no value to it, and if I'm wrong, I need to know it so I can correct myself.
But don't forget, it's Religion of Peace that compliles the data I'm using. Three cheers for them please.
BTW it would be useful if all commenters - but especially Brits - could go to Up Pompeii and sign the @No to the Mosque' petition.
There are plans to build a 70,000 capacity mosque on part of the upcoming Olympic village, in London. At the same time there are plans to demolish a church with a 12,00 congregation where the Olympic village is going to be. I'm sort of surprised I haven't read that story here, but then again, if none of us tell Robert, how can he know. I'll tell him straight after this comment.
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
You'll have to scroll half way down the page then click on the story title for the full story. You could go straight to the petition:
http://www.ultraguest.com/sign/1159622294
But I sort of reckon you might want to read the story.
SHM
I have put up a post on LGF to 'No to the Mosque' petition.
Also a post for you on the Reconquista site.
Sir Henry Morgan, l have sent your peititon to some of my UK friends who are definetly Brits, and want no part in muslim love. one thing about mosques they serve as a recruiting centre, and when things get bad, the government will know where to go to find the criminals.
Sir Henry Morgan,
Seems like more of a Fort than a religious site.
If I were a future Olympian I would be very nervous. You know, that trouble we had back in 72.
Greatest irony of the clash is reflected in the last sentence of the article where author asks what do we do about it. Islamic warriors will never have this dilemma, they have this simple formula, 'kill or get killed'. I think we should all be aware that if the Islamic countries were so armed and developed like US or europe, they would not have hesitated even for a fraction of second, before nuking infidel countries.
The Leftists and Muslims who post on this weblog all too often characterize Robert, his site, and his books as inciting racism and bigotry. They call him an Islamophobe. I've read all his books and articles and those labels do not apply. He uses the very words of Islamic scripture and jurisprudence to proove his points. He does not incite violence and hatred. He calls our attention to it where it truly is. If our Left and the Muslims cannot stop their ranting and fulminating, then the point is fairly established that they are what they are: haters.
Apparenly, we are supposed to stretch out our necks and await the swooosh of the scimitar if we are among those who refuse to convert or submit to the Dhimma. Since most Leftists are atheists, communists, and anarchists (Trotskyists) they are not even given the option of the Dhimma. Their lives are forfeit.
You aim to kill us or at least obliterate our liberty and our rights. We are not all united yet, but when we are you will not be able to withstand our power. And al illah will not be able to rescue from the righteous retribution THAT YOU HAVE BROUGHT UPON YOURSELVES.
David Mathews:
I am entering the fray a little bit late here but I'd like to chew up and spit out what is left of you.
1. You mention 30,000 dead Iraqis. Do you acknowledge the majority of those dead are from sectarian violence? That is, Shia Muslim killing Sunni Muslim and vice versa. I thought not. Americans are killing violent Muslims. There are a few civilian casualties which is unfortunate but we do not destroy or bomb indiscriminately. We may yet, and when we do, you wilol know the difference, believe me. Then you will really have something to whine about! Of course, we will really have to be drastically attacked for this to happen but it will be justified. I think it is justifiable already considering the Islamist threat and actions perpetrated against infidels.
2. Secondly, you have said that America and Christians have a violent history. Please show me where in the Bible that violence is expressly permitted or even encouraged. Unless you read the Qur'an, Hadith or Sunnah, you will not find such permission. As for America, every nation has an aspect of its histpory it is not proud of. However, America learns from her mistakes. She airs them, grieve them and then does her utmost to ensure it is never repeated.
The cycle of violence and stagnation in Islamic Republics is never ending because it stubbornly refuses to acknowledge its inherently primitive tenets that forake progress and peace with those who would be former enemies. The Qur'an is arranged so that you will be in a perpetual state of war with all those who do not believe as you do. You will never have infrastructure (we will keep bombing it), equality (for women andfor other religions), peace with Israel and neighbours who are not of the same Islamic sect...do i really need to go on.
There wouldn't be a clash if the Islamaniacs simply stayed home and left us the hell alone. We don't want to bother them and we don't want them to bother us. Just leave us the hell alone. They can stay in the 3rd world and work to improve it rather than coming here and destroying everything. How hard is that to comprehend? If we want to be "infidels" and not be saved according to their beliefs that's our business, even if they are certain we will go to hell. We will stay out of the Islamaniac world if they stay in theirs. Just leave us alone. Pure and simple. Is that asking too much?
FredIsinglass,
"Since most Leftists are atheists, communists, and anarchists (Trotskyists) they are not even given the option of the Dhimma. Their lives are forfeit."
I was seeing some video by some Dr.Zakir Naik, so called moderate muslim preacher and he says that he preferes atheists to believers in other religions. The reason he gives is that atheists alredy believe in half of the declaration required for being muslim, which is 'there is no God but Allah' and he says that atheists beleive that 'there is no God' so they have already covered half the way. And everywhere I have seen strange affinity between the two.
"Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
Jesus answered: "Watch out that NO ONE deceives you. For MANY will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the CHRIST,' and will DECEIVE many.
You will hear of WARS and rumors of WARS, but see to it that you are not alarmed.
Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
Nation WILL rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There WILL be famines and earthquakes in various places.
ALL these are the beginning of birth pains.
"Then you WILL be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be HATED by all NATIONS because of me.
At that time MANY will turn away from THE FAITH and will betray and HATE each other, and many FALSE prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Because of the increase of WICKEDNESS, the LOVE of most will grow COLD, but he who stands firm to the end WILL be SAVED.
And this GOSPEL of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation, 'spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house.
Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak.
How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!
Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the CHRIST!' or, 'There HE is!' Do NOT believe it.
For FALSE CHRISTS and FALSE PROPHETS will appear and perform great signs and miracles to DECEIVE even the elect—if that were possible.
See, I have told YOU ahead of time.
"So if anyone tells you, 'There HE is, out in the desert,' do NOT go out; or, 'Here HE is, in the inner rooms,' do NOT believe it.
For as lightning that comes from the east is VISIBLE even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be DARKENED,
and the moon will NOT give its light;
the stars will FALL from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be SHAKEN.'
"At that time the SIGN of the Son of Man will appear in the SKY, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with POWER and great GLORY.
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
Even so, when you see ALL these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.
I tell you the truth, THIS generation will certainly NOT pass away until ALL these things have happened.
Heaven and earth WILL pass away, but my WORDS will NEVER pass away."
Nuff said!!!
"Appearances can deceive, and even the wise can be wrong. Second, even if this is a clash, it still could be short-circuited via unforseen events (such as the invention of a hydrogen fuel cell, or the rise of a great Muslim teacher who persuades millions to reject fundamentalism."
-fromthe Philadelphia Inquirer
I'd put my money on the former (hydrogen fuel cell) instead of waiting for the latter (long after hell freezes over).
The latter: a great Muslim teacher who persuades millions to reject fundamentalism
I am so glad that the
"...usually reliably dhimmi Philadelphia Inquirer" has printed that.
My wife says that it's not good for me to read this site because my mood goes too fast between hopeful and frustrated.
But I like to be hopeful now.
Are we at the onset of a trend?
Gary said:
I agree 200 percent. In fact, I think the "trolls" won this round hands down, because they provoked people into foolish behavior and insults. All the people here that think they help Robert Spencer's cause by giving vent to hostility and insult are, to the extent they think that helps Spencer, living in a dream world. Do you guys ever see Spencer or Fitzgerald behaving that way? Spencer never insults people. Even when they insult him, he keeps his cool, avoids the temptation to respond emotionally or disproportionately, and sticks to facts. I never detect hostility in him. Hostility is notoriously corrupting of the mind's objectivity and balance, and outsiders are naturally suspicious of opinions larded with vitriole. What I detect in Spencer is responsible concern and fearless determination. Fitzgerald can be a bit more biting sometimes, but the bites are extremely clever and restrained, and for every bite he permits himself, he first offers a thousand carefully researched facts and precisely considered ideas.
The fact is, internet anonymity tempts us to behave like scoundrels, because we can get away with it. We shouldn't give in to the temptation. Another thing that causes misbehavior is the notion that if what you are fighting is hateful, you are liberated from having to meet any kind of decent standard of conduct. But then you become too indistinguishable from that which you are fighting.
I would say I suspect that some of the anti-Muslims on this thread are really Muslims seeking to make Jihad Watch look bad -- except if I said that I would start to sound like certain Muslims who are forever blaming Islamic terror on anyone and anything but Islam (e.g., the Jews did 9/11, etc.).
A lot of you guys would do well to look a little more often to Mr. Spock from Star Trek as an exemplar -- or Joe Friday from Dragnet -- "Just the facts, Ma'am, just the facts..." -- or at any rate, more facts, less emotional incontinence. And if you don't know or aren't sure of the facts, then shut the hell up and go research them before you speak. Or else let others do the talking. What are we, animals in cages that we respond like screaming monkeys simply because someone, often in good faith, starts stating errors here? Too often people here see only the worst aspect of what someone says, and then that person is attacked like some kind of a monster. Anyway, even monsters or people acting in bad faith should be fought with a certain dignity and decorum, and whenever possible with a backdoor open to the possiblity that they might be converted and come around. Robert Spencer fights dragons with remarkable decorum and irenic hope every day. He'll fight to the death for the facts, yet he always seems to have one hand at least a little open in the hope that even the implacable opponent might somehow become an ally. We should more often try to follow that example if we don't want to hurt this site's purpose.
traeh,
You are basically right, but I believe that this site is more than what you wish it to be.
Some of us sometimes lose our cool because we are living among Muslims (my case). Or live in very PC environments.
I doubt your theory that Muslims write here to make this site look bad.
Islam is at war against everything we hold dear. Rections are not because "internet anonymity makes us behave like scoundrels", but because we know where we stand in this fight.
Talking about decent standard of conduct: Have you seen first-hand the face of Muslims when they utter the word "Kafir?"
Frank, their reasoning is a one way street. What's good for the goose is not necessarly what's good for the gander.
Rocky said:
Actually, I wasn't espousing that theory. My post even disavowed that theory, albeit not entirely explicitly. All I meant to say about that theory is that the effect of some of the posts on this thread was the same as if that theory had been true. I was pointing to the irony of the fact that "you always hurt...the one you love," i.e., the allies of this site sometimes hurt it every bit as much as if they were enemies of the site.
"I agree 200 percent. In fact, I think the "trolls" won this round hands down, because they provoked people into foolish behavior and insults. All the people here that think they ."
trolls never win on this site, as they cannot discuss the issues brought to them. they cannot answer plain simple answers.
if you think passionte responses consisting of one liners is when a troll wins, then you need to go back to school of debate.
This mosque must NOT be built!
If nothing else...to honor the memory of those lives lost on 07/07 in the London tubes.
London would basically be allowing a "jihadi-office" to be opened in the middle of one very large and fruitful target, for jihadists who wish to plan and execute attacks AT this very olympics!
Will spread the word....this must NOT happen!.
Talismen
So someone wants us to use Mr. Spock as a role model. That has to be the dumbest idea ever posted here. Star Trek was a TV show, it was not real life. Spock was an emotionless half human, that is your prescription, behave like an emotionless half human? Go ahead and pretend that you are Joe Friday or Spock, the rest of us will behave like human beings. I don’t recommend you try the Vulcan mind meld against the jihadis. You have you ideas of how everyone should behave, well the muslims like to tell others how to act and what to say as well as how to say it as well. We are trying to keep the jihadis out but you would let them in the back door while we were not looking. Why don’t you put the same effort toward those who behead little girls for sport. Probablly because you are incapable of dealing with real life events without consulting your TV guide first.
To zena and tgusa:
In your responses to my post, you paid little attention to the points I made in it, and thus unintentionally and ironically proved those points, which concerned how people sometimes pay too little attention before responding.
Zena, your response to my post is to throw out a oneliner expressing support for debate that relies on "passionte" one-liners. Well, at least that's consistent.
Tgusa, in your response you make yourself a judge of intelligence, but if care and attention have anything to do with intelligence, then I'm not sure you're a good judge, because you didn't pay attention to my post before responding to it. If you had, you would have seen that I did not say to take Mr. Spock as a role model -- I said some commenters at this site would do well to look a little more often to Mr. Spock and Joe Friday as exemplars. That is very different. I also emphasized Spencer and Fitzgerald as exemplars. If you are going to respond to this, please respond to what I said, not to something I never said, and please avoid insult. That only hurts this site and loses us potential allies who are looking for intelligent discussion, not a drunken brawl. I'm assuming you care about increasing the number of this site's allies. Anyway, maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Zena, in your response you spoke as though heat were as good as light and as if it were okay to win regardless of what you win. I think heat devoid of light hurts this site's reputation. Passionate one-liners full of hostility serve mainly to open this site to unfounded charges that it's a hate-site. You thus lose potential allies in a time-sensitive crisis. I doubt you really care more about passionate one-liners and what you call "winning" than you care about the site's reputation and enlarging the site's audience. But perhaps we'll just have to disagree.
traeh,
If you took my post as an attack on your intelligence I assure you that was not my intention. It was one bad idea, One. Joe Friday lived in a time/era in the USA where there were no jihadis. Believe me I wish we could return to those days but sadly that is not possible. This battle is not a popularity contest and some posters here are fed up and possibly have had jihadis affect them directly. I believe that it is always best for people to say what’s truly on their minds, we are capable of sorting it all out.
Muslims never win here. Their argument is based on a lie... we have the truth.
To understand how everyone is looking for answers to this demise of war, even the reasons, shows that we don't understand how many people are addicted too Heroin! Hell, even the people in Ukraine are addicted to the mess! I couldn't believe it when I visited, and all the depression I saw is all traced to this mess! Here, in the West, we deal with it vigorously, but over there, the Police could care less! It's unreal!
The only Jihad I see, is a war to keep distributing this mess of Heroin towards the West! Ah, but it ain't gonna happen!