Dave Hill gets shaken down -- and likes it. From The Guardian's Comment Is Free, with thanks to Antidhimmi:
On Monday night, just before ten, there was a knock at my front door. In my pulsating neighbourhood most callers at such an hour are either practised grifters or mentally unwell - or both. On this occasion, though, four medium-sized boys stood at the bottom of the steps: Asian boys, aged eleven or twelve, one wearing a Chelsea shirt, a couple, religious headgear."Hello," I said. My tone was a friendly lets-hear-it-then. They had "scam" written all over them - but what kind of scam would it be?
"We're doing trick or treat," said one voice. "But it's Ramadan trick or treat."
"We don't dress up an' that," said another, anticipating my next question, "Cos it's Ramadan. We don't scare people cos we're Muslims."
It was a prepared speech. I was intrigued and they seemed intrigued by me. Perhaps my door was the first to be opened to them. I was a white man and being friendly too. They advanced up the steps, quivering with excitement, feeding off each others' adrenalin. I noted trainers, a bum fluff moustache. The stench of adolescent daring rose off them, irreverent yet amiable. I didn't recognise any of them.
Note that Hill describes himself as a "white man," while those who are trying to get some money out of him describe themselves as "Muslims." This is the conceptual problem of the mainstream media and government in microcosm: they see this present conflict as a matter of race, while the jihadists see it as one of religion and ideology.
"Which school do you go to?" I asked. "We go-school in Leyton," one replied - the Chelsea shirt, I think. "It'sa Islamic school. Private," he concluded, pridefully.Where do you all live?' asked. "Just over there, innit?" one replied, nodding towards streets parallel to mine.
"So if I give you money, what will you do with it?" I asked.
"We're collecting it for mosque," said the Chelsea shirt and the others carolled agreement. "We're not scaring people, see. We're Muslims. We're good people, we believe in peace."
"Which mosque do you go to?' I asked.
"That one," they said, nodding their heads to their rear.
I know this mosque and named it to them. Yeah, that's the one, they confirmed.
"I'd like to go in there one day," I said. I said it to surprise them, but I meant it. The mosque stands, literally, just round the corner. From the top window of my house you can see its golden dome and minarets. But, anyway, what was I to do with these four young scallywags? Trick-or-treat Ramadan? Pull the other one. But I kind of liked their nerve. So I gave them a five-pound note and told them not to spend it all on sweets. They ran off, gloating like gulls in a Bird's Eye factory.
This morning, I walked round to the mosque: if some of its boy worshippers are bent on fleecing residents on their way home from prayers and implying that it is with their elders' blessing, someone at the mosque ought to be told. And, who knows, maybe they really did hand the money in. There was car in the front yard but no one answered the door, so I went home. Another time, maybe. My plan had been to tell my tale but to do so with good humour and ask that if the culprits were found, they shouldn't be rebuked too harshly.
Why my wish for lenience? Sometimes my neighbourhood fills me with dismay. Other times its plurality, the everyday overlapping of the different cultures in contains, embodies the most hopeful possibilities of a shrinking, globalising world. Of course, those Muslim lads were doing wrong and, should their activities continue on any scale, risk harming their mosque's and their religion's reputation. But, at the same time, maybe all five of us learned something valuable from the episode.
For me, what was striking was their insistence that Muslims are good people. Sure, it was all part of their spiel (to use a possibly Yiddish term) yet there was no mistaking the anxiety behind it; their obvious awareness that an English person (as they would probably call me) might well think of Islam as being anything but peaceful. True enough, they were cocky. Yet behind the front lay a defensiveness that all Muslims must surely feel....
Sure, they were defensive. How terrible. But they weren't defensive enough to keep from fleecing a willing dhimmi like Dave Hill. One would think that if they really had that much anxiety that Islam be perceived as peaceful, they would refrain from shakedowns like this one. After all, if strangers arrived at my door at 10PM asking for money on a transparently false pretext, I would be a bit suspicious of them no matter how loudly they affirmed their honorable intentions. But Dave Hill thinks that because he gave them money despite seeing through them, they will think better of non-Muslims next time. Good luck with that.
What is it about this story that evokes thoughts of Dickens's Oliver Twist retold, with the spiritual leader of the lads' mosque in the role of Fagan?
And yes, americaningermany, Mr. Hill is most certainly a fool. Would he have handed a five pound note over to some snotty young con artists seeking money for the synagogue they attend because it was Yom Kippur or for the local Hindu temple because it's Durga Puyja and have no tax slips to provide to the suckers... er... donors?
What, no pork rinds to be kept for such occasions?
"...their obvious awareness that an English person (as they would probably call me) might well think of Islam as being anything but peaceful. True enough, they were cocky. Yet behind the front lay a defensiveness that all Muslims must surely feel...."
-- from the nauseating article by Dave Hill above
What a perfect mixture of sentimental gush and self-regard (the hero of the tale is the teller, congratulating himself for his large-heartedness, his capacious sympathy), this presentation of these young Muslims who are not charming and pitiable young boys, as he seems to think.
What is the point of the tale? That Muslim teenagers, pretending to collect "money for Ramadan" arrive, four at a time, knocking on the doors of non-Muslims, and essentially trying to extort, not with express but always with implied threats (for threats need not be stated, but will be assumed by many,when four teenage males knock at your door asking for money, for any reason), moneyfor themselves. That they made up the ridiculous story of collecting money for Ramadan might have led someone else, but not Dave Hill, to wonder about "Muslim charity" and why Muslims never contribute to non-Muslim causes. He might have bethought himself and asked why Muslims never participate in any non-Muslim holiday, including Hallowe'en, and indeed might have mentioned the cases of elementary schools ending the old practice of allowing students to have a little parade in Hallowe'en costumes because a handful of Musliim students (10 or 20 out of a total student body of several hundred), and he might even have looked in Al-Qaradawi's guide to what is Haram and what Halal to find out that Muslims are not supposed to offer non-Muslims any greetings on non-Muslim holidays (though some rules can be broken, apparently, where it is necessary to shore up the position of Islam; in case of need, it is alright because Jihad is war, and "war is deception," and everything that needs to be done to strengthen the position of Islam can, therefore, be justified (just as Al-Qaeda members could shave their beards, or even drink at strip joints). He might have done that.
But instead Dave Hill offered us only large-hearted sympathy -- his large heart, his sympathy. That sympathy apparently did not extend to others who might have been similary shaken down by these four Muslim "boys." He might have wondered what effect they would have had on an old-age pensioner, male or female, opening at night to four teenage Muslims asking (asking? or is the implied threat of doing something if the money is not forthcoming so obivous as to make the "asking" really a "demanding"?), and either fearfully surrendering money, or fearfully denying it, shutting the door, and wondering what would then happen, if not that very night, then on another night. No, none of that for Dave Hill.
The moral Dave Hill drew from his willingness to have five pounds taken from him? The moral he finds in five teenage Muslims with a preposterous story who should have been told "at Ramadan money is not collected" and "you don't collect from non-Muslims for Ramadan, period" or "come back at Hallowe'en in costume and then there will be treats for all those pariticipating.
Yes, one can imagine those reading the story and thinking to themselves something like -- oh, how sad. How telling. These young boys (all of a sudden they become "young boys" in that kind of mind, with that incipient mustache, that delicate fluff, so carefully referred to, merelly adding to the empathy), those "poor young Muslim boys" who "want so much to be part of our society, who wish they could participate in some way, wish they could truly trick or treat" but "they can't." Why can't they? Because Muslims must not take part in, must not even recognize, any non-Muslim holidays, and indeed, in some school districts, in order "not to offend" a handful of Muslims, hundreds of children have now been deprived, in each case, of the traditional Hallowe'en costume display (google for examples).
As for the appeal to our sentiment of pity, to feel how sad it must be for these "young boys" who behind their "cocky" money-demanding front, were merely -- so unlike all other boys who come, four in number, and knock on your door and ask for money for entirely phony reasons, and who, in their numbers, might so obviously be seen as threatening (threatening, for example, in what they might do to your car, or your house, that night or another night, if you were to refuse them).
Yet Dave Hill sees through -- he thinks -- what he thinks is their hollow bravado, to the tender and wounded Muslim souls beneath, and "that defensiveness that surely all Muslms must feel." Is he crazy? Looking around the world, looking at Muslims everywhere, and especially in England, from the official Muslim organizations constantly making demands and laying the blame for Muslim violence on the government and non-Muslims, to the huge percentages of Muslims who openly declare that they would never collaborate with the police or that they support terrorist acts against non-Muslims, to all the other incredible demands being made, and yet this brain-damaged Hill draws the conclusion that "
surely all Muslims must feel" a "defensiveness" that he detects in these youthful practitioners of extortion.
So while he, Dave Hill, sees beyond their behavior that did not require explicit threats to be taken as threatening (four boys, a knock on the door at night) to what it surely in his view was -- a "defensiveness that all Muslims must surely["surely"? "Surely" only if Muslims have the same world-view as the craven Dave Hills of this world]feel" -- intelligent readers will see something else. We see a man who was afraid to say no but pretends to himself that it was not fear, but genuine sympathetic curiosity, and his sense of himself as a superior moral being to reassure us, and to present him as a superior moral being who, in this cruel age of stereotypes (about Muslims, bien entendu) and a refusal to simply "see each other as human beings" (or some such twaddle that ignores the belief-system of Islam), manages to transcend those mental barriers that some non-Muslims have thrown up. Hands across the table. All gods chillun. The gush of bomboggery (brotherhood of man, fatherhood of god) dangerously misapplied.
"The defensiveness that all Muslims must surely feel." Surely they don't. Surely a look around the world, a look at Muslims on the march everywhere, attacking Buddhists here, Hindus there, setting off bombs in undergrounds in London and Madrid, assassinating political figures and moviemakers and threatening to murder still other political figures, and cartoonists, and writers, and publishers, and translators, and the Pope, and anyone else who does not parrot the Muslim view of Muhammad, of the Qur'an of the Hadith, of Islam, anyone who dares to suggest that just perhaps, just maybe, there might be things in those texts, in those tenets, in those attitudes, that are not healthy for Infidels and other living things, not to meniton the declared opinions of Muslims in England, many of whom say they would never turn in a terrorist or help the police with inquiries about them, others who admire the London bombers, still others, including all of the leaders of all of the major Muslim groups, that have consistently engaged not in self-criticism but in menacing verbal attacks on England, on its security services, on its foreign policies, on its everything -- implying that millions of Muslims could "be radicalized" if their demands are not meant. "Defensiveness"? What "defensiveness"?
The real story here being told is not that of Dave Hill as a superior moral being, capable of unusual, and admirable, empathy. It is rather the story revealed, unwittingly, by Dave Hill, the story of how he came to possess not a mind, but a bowl full of mush. And how that bowl-full-of-mush-of-a-mind endangers him, about whom we need not care, but also endangers the rest of us, who deserve not to be endangered by the dim-witted and ignorant among us. Yes, a bowl full of much. But with no old lady, or by any lady at all -- Britannia herself -- nearby whispering "hush!"
Goodnight, Moon. Goodnight, cows jumping over the moon. And Goodnight, Great Britain. It was swell while it lasted.
Of course, those Muslim lads were doing wrong and, should their activities continue on any scale, risk harming their mosque's and their religion's reputation. But, at the same time, maybe all five of us learned something valuable from the episode.
This really opened my eyes. Prior to reading this story I thought Islam was peaceful and nice. These kids really ruined my perception-was I ever fooled!
I too learned something from this episode. I learned that there are some infidels who are even more stupid than the politicians who pander to Islamaniacs whether they say "give Iran more time" or keep the doors open for more riffraff to come in and cause mayhem. Maybe next year the roaming Ramadamn riots will be hosted in his neighborhood. Then Dave Hill will really learn a few things!
Those boys will be back....and it won't be for ramadan.
Muslims "defensive" ? Silly me, here I was thinking they are offensive !
Uhmm, I think that this is just another case of cultural misunderstanding. What the boys were doing is something very common and familiar *traditional* practice, mainly in the arab and gulf countries. It's called "Gir-gi-aan" and it is done in the middle of ramadan. It basically involves young children dressed in traditional garb, moving from house to house, and asking for any sweets or such-like. Actually its just something which has come up in modern times and is not related to any Islamic teachings. And yes, even in the arab countries, the kids can sometimes be very annoying and persistent, to the extent of being a nuisance. But it's a traditional practice, which the children really look forward too.
Would this Mr. Hill have responded in the same foolish manner if 'four' youthful skinheads came-a-knockin' at/after 10pm for 'charitable' handouts? how about 4 not so youthful bikers?
Even if four nuns were to knock on my door after 10pm 'seeking charity' - I would offer to call the police.
Americaningermany was most concise: "Mr. Hill, you are a fool."
I had a Jewish landlady once. I was in her apartment paying rent when Jehovah's Witnesses arrived. A nicely dressed, cheerful, friendly black family. Kids dressed like they were going to church.
My landlady slammed the door in their faces with the following words:
"Go away, I'm Jewish."
====================================
Believe me the muzlims wouldn't try this crap at a Jewish home.
I would have closed the door gently, but my message would be equally unequivocal:
"Go away, I'm Christian."
Its not like they were preaching or something. They were just kids going 'round asking for sweets'n'stuff. And, in some sense, they were probably wrong to go to this chaps house. But look at it from the kid's point of view, how were they to know which is a muslim's and non-muslims house? Should they knock and ask rudely "are you a muslim?", I think that too would be inappropriate. If he wanted he could have just politely refused. No harm done. Really.
No harm done. Really.
Posted by: Commonsense
With no history of jihad in the UK, it would be no harm done. But now it is intimidating at the least to have 4 nearly grown (mustache?) muslim "youths" at your door at 10 at night. The muslim community should make sure the youths stay at the mosque for their treats.
When in Rome, do as the Romans Do! Kick these people out if they do not conform. On second thought.. just kick them out!
This article describes the situation we experience. Yes, the mullahs do send their chileren to beg of infidels ; in fact substitute "White" in the article above with "Hindu", and you can get the situation here.
Yes, what a bunch of scalliwags, and now they have an easy mark.
What a vomit-inducing article.
Not entirely OT:
From the daily paper – called “The Daily” -- for students and faculty at the University of Washington in Seattle, Washington:
“All together at the Ramadan table”
Members of the Muslim Student Association (MSA) and the Jewish organization Hillel have come together to feast.
Members of the two groups organized a cross-cultural breaking of the fast for Yom Kippur last Monday. The union between the two groups was such as [sic] success that Hillel students have been invited to attend nightly Ramadan celebrations at the HUB [a student union building].
“I didn’t know before they had fasting like us,” said MSA member Mohsen Algabbani. “I think we have something in common.”
...
Fasting is a way to discipline the self and to increase willpower, said Zakariya Dehlawi, public relations officer for MSA. Dehlawi helped organize the exchange with Hillel to break the fast of their two religions together.
“Ramadan is a month of reconnection to your faith,” but this year it is also a way to connect with another faith, he said.
“It was a chance for everyone to get to know each other in an informal way,” said Sarah Lawson of Hillel, who helped organize the event.
As an icebreaker, each table had note cards with similarities between the two faiths, such as dietary restrictions, emphasis on charity and monotheism.
“So many people were surprised with how well it went,” said Haneen Ahmad, internal relations director for the MSA. “It is a good way to communicate with another religious group on campus without getting political.”
...
The MSA is also holding a Fast-A-Thon for 13 hours next Tuesday, Oct. 10. A breaking of the fast will take place that evening at 6:50 p.m. in the HUB East Ballroom. Proceeds will go to Northwest Harvest.
-- The Daily, 10/5/06
Talking of handouts to Muslims, I notice tha international appeals are still out for money to rehouse people whose homes were destroyed in last year's earthquake in Pakistan. The government may even have had to make a few economies in its atomic bomb manufacture programme, Kashmiri terrorist training activities and the on-going Taliban / ISI co-operation project, to help towards the costs.
Commonsense is a muslim
You don't go around at 10pm knocking at doors.
When kids (KIDS, not teenagers) do it at halloween they either KNOW all the neighbourhood or go around with an adult.
Why they don't ask money to muslims?
of course, jyza is asked to non-muslims
remote-control,
That "cultural exchange" that went on for Ramadam-Yom Kippur tugged at my heartstrings. I am still wiping a tear from my cheek. Oh happiness, finally the Hillel crowd has recognized the commonality between Islam and Judaism. The name of Jews is often mentioned by Moslem youths, like in kaleb yahud, itbaq al-yahud, etc.
This love feast might be the beginning of a new understanding between the umma and the Jews. This is so exciting (I think I just wet my drawers!) it might mean there will be peace between the--whatchumacallit? The Zionist Entity and "Palestine." Oh wish that the prophet Mohhammmed were here to see this! How his teachings about the Jews (I mean not his teachings exactly but Allah speaking through him [like a ventriloquist with his dummy on his knee] are being ignored by the faithful. And during Ramadam yet!
But, wait, wait, perhaps, maybe, it's deception as taught by Allah (via Gabriel via the prophet)? Could it be? Could the stupid yahudis have been taken in again?
But no. No! No! No! I am so cynical. Even Moslems know how to reach out to Jews (other than to cut their necks). You tink so?
Nobody gets it. Dave Hill knows within himself that he gave up the money from cowardice. There were no highflown thoughts about Muslim 'defensiveness' etc - that all came afterwards. He gave them money because he was frightened of them, and of possible consequences if he refused.
He also knows damn well that the behaviour of the Muslim teenagers was unacceptable, to put it mildly, and only an idiot would ever make excuses for it.
He has decided that its better to be perceived as an idiot than a craven coward,