Jihadist holiday video calls for jihad and slaughter of "Crusaders"

What I want to know is - how the American leaders have become so dumb?

Or is it me?

I'm confused [not]

its not you beth

Let us all smile while our female familiy members are being gang raped - and then after to witness the brutal deaths of the males.

Who believes?

Certainly not the ''''elites''' who have been given a voice in this world.

Boy - are they in for a surprise or what?

That is the 'silver lining - sad to say.

They believe they are the ones who are '''so smart''' and that the rest of us should listen to them.

Don't put me in with the group who feels sorry for them ----- when they get every thing they fought for.

Who ever said - God does not have a special sense of humor?

When it comes to the logic that any 10 year old can understand - it is not God - Who needs a valid excuse.

He the right - to Laugh hardy

I laugh too

It's truly funny

i think that shia guy is really goerge bush,trying to blow smoke up are *ss

I may be a loser

and a dummy

and a low-life sinner {That is a bona-fide fact]

a lousy writer

One thing that you can count on from me:

You will never ever ever ever hear me say.....

"Islam is religion of peace"

I will tell on those who say such things....

But you will never ever ever ever ever hear me agree with them

because

such a statement

is an obvious flat-out brazen lie

And I voted for Bush

Never again --- will I be dooped

"Are there no men in this nation?"

Evidently not. Only vicious beasts perhaps?

Note the total absence of muslim community condemnation for this.

In my view silence here is not golden, instead it merely taciturn support because they are not yet ready in sufficient numbers to agree openly.

Also IMAGINE if any western group came out with similar. We would here the outraged howl from the rooftops of evey mosque across the world.

The western states had better act soon as if they wait too long the popultion will deem it necessary to act and I do not mean via unprovoked acts on harmless peaceful muslims but by attacking rowdy demonstrators with OFFENSIVE placards even if only to destro the placards that would be a real first step.

However, we NEED to get the Universites etc in line very quickly.

If you wish to see how to act then you should read up on just how the Nazis took total control of the german state. This may seem extreme but until we control the vipers in our nest we really have no chance of forcing the state to act and we do not need a scapegoat as we have a CAUSE: Islam!!

I bet they show this video on PA TV for the kiddies. Comes on right after the "Mighty Jihading Power Rangers".

Are there no men in this nation?" and a masked individual declares:
this is an example of the "brave muslim man" he is masked to cowardly to his face, and he aquires his victims by ambush, these men are protrayed as heroes, in reality they are nothing more than cowards.

The film begins with footage of horsemen under the caption: "O ye who believe! What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter" (Koran 9:38).

"And when [the Lamb] opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, come and see. and there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword." (Revelation 6: 3&4).

"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." (Revelation 14:10).

these masked muslim men too cowardly to show their faces, let them try to stike, we will not be waitng to hear the outcry of the illusive "moderate muslim and their pathetic apologists of blaming everyone but tbe muslim"

Happy Ramadan. Infidel season is approaching. No limit. Attention all Jihad hunters. No limit on killing infidels. Happy Ramadan.

Some of you people need to ease up on the US and UK administrations. Do you honestly think they should come out and say what we know? That the statement that Islam is a religion of "peace" is misleading?

Or maybe you are under the impression that they "believe" that. Rice is a smart person. She has ten times the capacity to learn than any of most. Moreover she has ten times the ability to teach. She is "Bush's brain".

They may be slack on the rhetoric. They may even have too much faith in the average person's curiosity. Then again - you found this site, didn't you?

What are we realy mad about? That a lot of dumb liberals don't get it? You only have to remember that they DO NOT WANT TO.

Try to notice Bush grinding his teeth whenever he says Islam is religion of "peace".

I just saw a commercial tonight for a new Lexus that automatically parallel parks itself!! What does that tell you about the enemy's chances?

Anybody out there still wondering why we have to wipe these monsters out? There will be NO peace until the likes of this filth is completely destroyed.

Hate to tell you, but yesterday there was an article in the Chicago Tribune, where this idiot guy attempted to take some woman's head-scarf and was sentenced to re-habilitation at a CAIR office. This guy is the biggest idiot I've ever read about. Of course, he must represent all of us. Poor, dumb Americans who don't know that Islam is a "religion of peace." I loved the ending part in the article where it said the Iman at the mosque was talking about "togetherness and peace."

Check out the article if you can find it. It was on the front left hand side of the page. This guy was unbelievable... He was quoted in the newspaper as saying "Religion is a waste of time..." Also as calling a mosque, "a temple and a synagoue" (Maybe this offended the Muslims who would rather see Israel wiped from the face of the world map) And then this guy, according to the newspaper, did nothing but check his text messages during an Islamic prayer service.

I can't believe this guy. Of course... this must represent typical dumb western American.

(I was insulted by the article and that the Tribune would bother to write an article about a complete idiot. I don't condone of what the guy did, again..another example of being an idiot, but I don't appreciate the free coverage CAIR got either.)

I just saw a commercial tonight for a new Lexus that automatically parallel parks itself!! What does that tell you about the enemy's chances?

What does that have to do with protecting western civilization? The war with islam is not a military one, if it was, we could win it in 20 minutes. Our leaders and general population are unaware that a war is going on, a one-sided war, a war of demographic conquest, so our technological superiority is mute.

When our governments allow them to come here and multiply, and our own birth rates are so low, it is a mathematical certainty that they will surpass us in numbers and in political influence. Then you can say goodbye to the cars that park themselves.

Well, Japan will still have them.

What a lovely and inspiring holiday video ! Is this their equivalent of "It's a Wonderful Life"? Or maybe, "Miracle on 34th St." ? I wish the film had English subtitles. The sound of their music and their ugly, gutteral speech makes me sick.

It's truly a shame that Hollywood is filled with Islamaniac lovers. If that was not the case then it could produce something along the lines of that WW2 series "Why We Fight". Back then Hollywood on its own produced this series of films to remind everyone (as if people in those days needed a reminder) who the enemy was and why it was necessary to defeat them. In this day and age we really need such a series since too many people (including in Washington) have no idea who the enemy is and what's at stake. Instead of this Hollywood gives us apologists and Michael Moore. No wonder the fight against this scourge is so difficult.

Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists and it is only a matter of time that some of you will probably blow up a mosque or two in the USA...i think you should check your own hatred...

maybe Bush should just build a huge wall around you and the Islamists and let you two groups destroy each other...the rest of us can watch and eat popcorn at the spectacle...radical christian fundamentalists v. the radical Jihadists...great entertainment...

Januaryman,"I bet they show this video on PA TV for the kiddies. comes on right after the mighty jihading power rangers." but before that, they can watch, aqua jihadist man (ahlla, this wet head covering is smothering me! and where are my nards! for crying out loud!), super jihadist man,(with his glorious black cape and the cresant moon.) wonder jihaist woman (wonder what she's wearing under that tent), the bionic jihadist man,(high tech sticks and stones.) spider jihadist man,(those big desert spiders can mutate.) and the invisable jihadist woman(shrouded you know.that's why she's invisable) If nothing else in life , these people can make you laugh.

Well Mr. Spencer, the word is out -- thanks to your great work and effort.

What are the moderate muslims saying about this video?

The way I read things, moderate muslims don't have a legal leg to stand on in islamic jurisprudence; am I right?

When the islamists start coming for our heads, are we expected by them to do nothing? Can infidels get injunctions to stop the fatwas in islamic courts?

I don't think that will happen somehow.

Posted by Sayid:
"..maybe Bush should just build a huge wall around you and the Islamists and let you two groups destroy each other...the rest of us can watch and eat popcorn at the spectacle...radical christian fundamentalists v. the radical Jihadists...great entertainment..."

FYI, I am not a Christian fundamentalist and I venture to say many people who leave comments on this site are not either.
As for being as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists, I personally haven't beheaded, blown up, raped, mutilated, or threatened anybody, ever. Neither has any other "infidel" I know.

The Japanese tourist shows his fellow salarymen pictures of himself with a few dozen other tourists standing in front of the Statue of Liberty, or the Duomo in Florence, or at the Place de la Concorde.

The American tourist shows his friends and family pictures of himself sitting in a cafe, or with his (now former girlfriend) sipping a coke, or standing in an unidentified greensward that he tries to remember, but just can't, if at the time his travelling companion, also backpoacked and sneakered, took the picture, they were in St. James Park, or Hyde Park, or possibly that nice garden marked "Fellows Only" that they happened to step into when they were visiting Oxford, or maybe Cambridge, or maybe it is that nice big lawn he innocently bicycled across only to be chased by a man who, when he finally caught up with him, told him in no uncertain terms that he had just carved deep tracks in the soft earth on the carefully maintained cricket grounds of Peterhouse.

And the Muslim tourist? He has pictures to show: of this bridge in San Francisco, this skyscraper in Houston (oh, and here is one of the Sears Tower), and here is another of the Brooklyn Bridge, taken from underneath, at several different points. And this is the Statue of Liberty, and this is Walter Reed Hospital, and here's one of the Library of Congress, and another of the Supreme Court. From every angle, too. Oh, and here's the Naval Base at Norfolk -- I've got dozens of those.

And while the Japanesee tourist likes to take pictures of the famous site with himself in a group of others supposedly just like him, and the American boy (or girl) likes to take a picture just of himself or his companion, and they need not be at a famous site -- it is enough just to be there, just to be in Europe or someplace foreign -- the Muslim tourist doesn't need to be in the picture at all.

No, he wants to take a picture of that unscenic skyscraper, the girders that undergird that bridge, the lay of the land around Bartholdi's torch-holding lady about whom so many torch-songs have been sung, the monuments of our civilization, that express or uphold or defend the advanced Western liberal democracy that is America, set on its course -- a course from which some, in their idiocy about "not cutting and running" may, in the continued squandering of reosurces, and frenetic incoherent efforts at confronting by not confronting the full menace and instruments of Jihad, a central duty of Muslims everywhere, are actually -- cutting and running.

"Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists and it is only a matter of time that some of you will probably blow up a mosque or two in the USA...i think you should check your own hatred..."

I wouldn't waste my time.........as for checking my own hatred. I give everyone a fair shot, I only call it like I see it. Hate inspires hate.

"maybe Bush should just build a huge wall around you and the Islamists and let you two groups destroy each other...the rest of us can watch and eat popcorn at the spectacle...radical christian fundamentalists v. the radical Jihadists...great entertainment..."

Posted by: sayid

Whatever...!!! you want some cheese with that wine. Sounds like the next Michael Moore vid.

Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists and it is only a matter of time that some of you will probably blow up a mosque or two in the USA...i think you should check your own hatred...

Posted by: sayid at October 24, 2006 09:05 AM

maybe Bush should just build a huge wall around you and the Islamists and let you two groups destroy each other...the rest of us can watch and eat popcorn at the spectacle...radical christian fundamentalists v. the radical Jihadists...great entertainment...

Posted by: sayid at October 24, 2006 09:11 AM

1)It is only natural for people to not like those who try to exterminate them.

2)Most of us here have no interest in blowing up mosques and whatnot. We would much prefer to be left alone. However, we are not being left alone(as the article about the Taliban planning attacks in Europe shows).

3)I haven't seen too many beheading videos made by radical Christians. I have seen TOO many beheading videos made by radical Muslims though.

4)If the radical jihadists win the fight at which you will eat popcorn they will no doubt enjoy sawing off YOUR head afterward.

History repeats itself.

In Babylon (tower of Babel, Babylon), they worshiped Satan. Today they still worship Satan....they call him Allah - (their old moon god).

It's simple to see. Their behaviour shows that they are evil. A Freddie Kruger movie is no less bloody and barbaric as these folks.

Trouble is, the west has gone numb to what SHOULD shock them. They have gone blind to what SHOULD be clearly seen as evil.

Their passiveness and PCness has turned them into complete idiots.

Heard an excellent suggestion on talk radio.

Put our troops on the borders to stop all in/out flow of insurgents. Tell Afganistan and Iraq military to get busy and get rid of the insurgents.

THEN remove our troops.

"Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists...i think you should check your own hatred..."

Ignorant about what? And what is wrong about hatred? Is it wrong to hate those worthless and evil radical muslims? On the contrary, I'd say it is wrong (and possibly immoral) to not hate them, and you've made clear where you stand.

you can hate all you want...exterminate you...? who is trying to exterminate you? do you have any names...? has any Muslim come up to you personally and said they wanted to exterminate you? you all sound about as paranoid as those conspiracy minded islamic radicals...or maybe you have been listening to too many talk radio shows and I emphasis "shows."

Sayid,

"We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you. Hussein Massawi, a former Hezbollah leader."

I'll only post that one quote, but there are others I've seen.

I'll give you a little tip on posting at JW. Attempts to intellectually bully anti-Jihadists with claims that,

A. You have superior knowledge of Islam
B. Posters merely parrot Bush Administration talking points
C. Posters are rabid Christian fundamentalists
D. All religions are equally morally bankrupt/culpable for terrorism
E. US/Isreali policies are the root cause of Jihadi ideology
F. Jihadis have hijacked the 'Religion of Peace'

will fail. None of these points can withstand critical scrutiny by a thinking adult brought up in the Western tradition of critical analysis.

sayid asks:

"you can hate all you want...exterminate you...? who is trying to exterminate you? do you have any names...? "

Didn't you read the article? It doesn't sound like they just want to take us out for a nice lunch. Also, google some of Amhadinnerjacket's pronouncements in the last few months. I'll never apologise for hating anyone that makes threats like that against me and my family.

ok so take care of those crackpots who threaten you...and as long as you talk and act as though the world is yours for the taking you will have people who will hate and resent you...it would be like the big bully on the playground wondering why nobody likes him...

"We don't need names however, because it is islam and muslims on a whole who want to exterminate all of us non-believers"

ok..whatever you say Hitler...maybe it is appropriate that you are in Germany...did you read your Mein Kampf today?

It is safe to say that if the US wanted to exterminate the Islamic world it would be rather easy. If a less tolearant nation like the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany would have been attacked 9/11 style Islam would most likely be gone from the face of the earth by now.

sayid - "Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists"

Takes one to know one wouldn't you say, troll begone!

*Don't feed the troll

you have no way of knowing that unless you carry around a deck of tarot cards...

We know our enemy. It is Islam.

How do we know?

Because the Quran tells me so.

"...fight and slay the infidels wherever you find them and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem..."

Sayid:

We'll be up earlier than you. We'll be watching and waiting...

Troll? Troll? Ok whatever...i think that you people and the Islamic terrorists are nothing more than the flip side of the same coin!!!you both are going to get us killed...you both are greedy and think you are superior with your culture, economics, and nationalism/religion...you both are crazed warmongers...good day if you can still have one...

Sorry, but when someone attacks what are we to do? Sit around and wait to be slaughtered? Any nation stupid enough to not defend itself should be destroyed. At least we haven't reached that point yet.

Only darkened minds can equate our just anger with those that call for our destruction. These same darkened minds equate Christianity with Islam and state that religion is the problem.

Sayid,

None of your arguments about moral equivalence between the West and Islam hold any water. Examining any of the reports by ex-Muslims on the dangers facing apostates and ex-Jihadis on the Islamic factors driving jihad would illustrate this completely, if you would only take the time to read them. There is such a thing as personal development and you have an opportunity to engage in it, starting right now, if you choose to.

Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists and it is only a matter of time that some of you will probably blow up a mosque or two in the USA...i think you should check your own hatred...
posted by above troll

It's called self-preservation.

Mohammed commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Mosems.
--- Tabari 8:38

33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 * 33:21 *

Same as it ever was.

"None of your arguments about moral equivalence between the West and Islam hold any water"

Obviously not to you they dont because you are a warmonger...you have no sense of morality and think that just cuz you are in the west that "the west is the best"...what happens in the USA? Justice is found in the bank roll not in the hearts of individuals...if you ask me, the capitalist west and radical islam are the same...try speaking your mind in the work place without the proper alliances and watch what happens to you...freedom? as far as self preservation it sounds like murder to me...you people think you are so morally elevated...and the jihadists think that they are so pure and mighty too...like i said, both groups need to be encaged together so they can destroy each other and the rest of us sane people can live our lives in peace and tranqulity...after all, and I dont really know, but who drew first blood in your silly war? ala rambo...

Sayid-

If you are a "sane" person who wants to live in peace and tranquility you cannot be a Muslim. In Islam is only darkness, violence and hatred. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

I applaud you for leaving the degenerate creed of Islam or preparing mentally to do so.

Islam, Feh!

Anyone who sits on the sidelines in this struggle will eventually have two choices-either cast their lot with the anti Jihadists and live another day to expound whatever drivel they like or be wiped out by the Jihadists for not believing and acting as they do.

Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists and it is only a matter of time that some of you will probably blow up a mosque or two in the USA...i think you should check your own hatred...

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave them their way free. Lo! Allah is forgiving, and merciful: (Sura 9:5)"

So, this is a love doctrine I presume? If it is, what do you mean by "hate?"

Is it permissiable then to "hate" someone who is not islamic, such as a Christian or a Jew?

If not, than how should one interpret:

"Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain hehind any Sariya (an army unit) fogin for Jihad and I would love to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again maryed in His Cause" Muhammed Iben Ismaiel Al-Bukhara.

Is this to be taken as a love doctrine or a hate doctrine according to your reasoning?

Sayid,

Anyone with an open mind will conclude that the West is the 'best', as you put it. There are definitely aspects of the West that lead people to self-destruction, low morals, etc. But, those are marginal to the overall functioning of society, not central to it. Overall, the West is the least corrupt society that's ever existed on the planet. I studied history to the Ph.D. level, so I know what I'm talking about.

Don't let molehills become mountains and reject the West for some presumed intellectually superior position of moral equivalency is all I'm advising. The summit of Western Civilization is also the summit of human achievement. Period. Compared to Plato, the Koran isn't even a footnote in intellectual history. But, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." If you don't want to make the effort to understand the West and what it offers vs. what Islam offers, that's your choice. The information is out there.

...try speaking your mind in the work place without the proper alliances and watch what happens to you

In the West, a possible punch in the nose at worst from a hothead.

In the Muslim world, at least one dagger in the back.

Compared to Plato, the Koran isn't even a footnote in intellectual history.

Moreover, as I am beinging to understand islam intellectual development could not advance beyond the Koran because it is thought that any description of nature would be to "limit" the god allah in someway.

Even if something is contradictory, so stating this would be considered blasphemy under islamic jurisprudence.

As a result, islamic societies never actually discovered things like algebra or zero or art or science -- and those in islamic societies that investigated such matters were heretics and regarded as infidels.

In fact, the Greeks and may others who woke up one day and found themselves under islamic rule; were forced to flee to Europe, where thanks to Christianity; art, science, and all manner of intellectual pursuit was encouraged and allowed to flourish.

RasoolalShaytan- Tis the season to kill Kafirs, fa la la la la, la la la la.

To the tune of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer
Enjoy

You know Ali and Achmed
And Rahim and Raza,
Sayeed and Yusuf
And Hamza and Haashim,
But do you recall
The most famous Moslem of all?
Mohomet the Blood-Stained Moslem
Had a very shiny Sword
And if you ever saw it
You would even say it glows
All of the other Moslem
Used to laugh and call him names
They never let poor Mohomet
Join in any moslem prayers
Then one foggy Ramadan Eve
Allah came to say
"Mohomet, with your sword so bright,
Won't you guide my war tonight?"
Then all the moslem loved him
As they shouted out with glee:
Mohomet the Blood-Stained Moslem,
You'll go down in history!

Infidel_Dog-

That was priceless!!!!
I gotta print that and hang it up now!

I heard a Taliban leader interviewed on TV last night, and to paraphrase his evil, disgusting mind;

"Ordinary people voted Bush and Blair into office, so it is their doing, thus they must die. It is the muslim duty to kill ordinary people because they are behind their governments."

Because we are free and Democratic, we deserve to die. Our natural rights of Life, Liberty, and Hapiness are being threatened by islam. Any action taken on a muslim would be considered self-defense.

Spoilsport hindikooks aside, this comes straight from mainstream friend and ally: The CIA & Saudi Arabia are co-founders of the contemporary nursery of jihad in Pakistan! It is called reaping the whirlwind. India didn't invent the Cold War. Its earliest ally was JFK, during the Tibet crisis. When the geopolitical chess board was redesigned, it was pushed into Soviet arms when adventurist Pakistan found itself as the Most Favoured Nation by the early sixties. The break up of India was a part of the gameplan, except, should it succeed now, the US will have no bulwark against the Jihadi-Chinese axis in the east! All we are sure of is that nobody loves the pagans, thank you, but may be, we gonna have the last snigger!

"Under the impact of Pakistan's post-Sept 11 American alliance, Pakistan's military ruler, Gen Musharraf, has become an apostle of something he calls "enlightened moderation". Pakistan faces an extremist threat. No doubt about it. In the darkest corners of Pakistani society lurk some of the most fervent votaries of jihad.

But let's not forget how this has come about. Past military rulers, with help from the CIA and Saudi Arabia, took pride in turning Pakistan into a nursery of jihad. We are living with the consequences. Musharraf, for his own reasons, is confusing the issue, reluctant to accept the fact that the answer to extremism is not his person or the abstraction of military rule but a return to democracy, no matter how unsteady on its feet that democracy in the beginning may be.

Let us never forget that the Pakistani variant of jihad is a direct product of military adventurism, Gen Zia being the father of the so-called Afghan jihad. We won't get rid of jihad and its sympathisers as long as the army, the ISI and Military Intelligence do not retreat from the political arena and leave governance to the political class." [http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm]

What I want to know is - how the American leaders have become so dumb?

Or is it me?

I'm confused [not]
Posted by: Beth'

Too many of them go to Yale.

Hi Venividivici..

in terms of islam and Aristotle, did'nt Avecinna keep Plato alive in the Islamic world? I have also heard that Aquinas used some of Avecinna's writings in the Summa...i mean, even if the Koran did not have the same influence that Plato had intelectually, I would think that it is a matter of choice. By that I mean just because the Koran may not have taken off like plato, there may still have been those who were drawn to its spirituality in a peacefull way, the sufis for instance, and been profoundly influenced by it. In other words, i dont think that popularity of an idea implies that the idea is better than one less popular...

Post by sayid:

"you can hate all you want...exterminate you...? who is trying to exterminate you? do you have any names...? has any Muslim come up to you personally and said they wanted to exterminate you? you all sound about as paranoid as those conspiracy minded islamic radicals...or maybe you have been listening to too many talk radio shows and I emphasis "shows." "

sayid, I guess you don't watch TV or the videos issued by Al-Qaeda, aired on arab networks and websites. It is videos like the very subject of this post you are posting to: "Jihadist holiday video calls for jihad and slaughter of "Crusaders"" and many other documented reports, where Muslim threats are made to the west.

No one has come up to me, but I have seen thousands in the streets in the east crying out "death to America" "death to the crusaders" "death to the infidels" and Iran calling for the destruction of Israel, amoung other threats. And No, I don't think anyone took down their names. It was not necessary. The message was heard clearly enough. Got a couple of names though: bin Laden, Al-Zawahiri, Al-Zarqawi. Their threats seem quite real to me.

You know, my country took in hundreds of thousands of Muslims, if not millions, helped them, fed them, found them housing & jobs, provided health care, schooling, human rights, security, opportinity for them and their families and these very same Muslims (spouses included) are now declaring how they hate the country & the so called infidels in it.

Granted not all Muslims are making these statements, but there are enough of them doing so all around the world and it is enraging our citizens.

Unfortunately, Muslims are "branding" themselves.

They may be slack on the rhetoric. They may even have too much faith in the average person's curiosity. Then again - you found this site, didn't you?

What are we realy mad about? That a lot of dumb liberals don't get it? You only have to remember that they DO NOT WANT TO.

Try to notice Bush grinding his teeth whenever he says Islam is religion of "peace".

I just saw a commercial tonight for a new Lexus that automatically parallel parks itself!! What does that tell you about the enemy's chances?
Posted by: Agrippa

Yes, but what if they are paying Bush and they are paying for the keys to the Lexus? And we use OUR money to feed them.. stupid us.

Please tell me what makes you so optimisitic, Agrippa.. some real good Koolaid?

Witness,

That is also my understanding of Islamic 'science' and jurisprudence. When they claim all 'science' can be found in the Koran, scientist in the West should cringe. Hugh had a post mocking this particular strand of Islamic thought a few days ago.

Anthropologically, my current hypothesis is that Islam is the most successful example of a 'traditional' society, mostly because it has spread so much further geographically than any other society based on following tradition, what Nietzsche called "the morality of 'mores'", as opposed to the West, which has continually challenged tradition, cf. "The Battle of the Ancients and Moderns". Islam, in this reading, is threatened by the fact that we in the West are always seeking 'the New', whereas Islam seeks to re-enact 'the Old'. My beloved Romans were also a 'traditional' society, as evidenced by the cry "O tempora, o mores!", along the lines of Islam, but I'm no more wishing for a return of the Roman Empire than I am for a return of the Caliphate, though I much prefer the Romans, obviously.

Well, Japan will still have them.
Posted by: August22

They and China will have to form a coalition to keep Islmas away from their two countries.. they will do so grudgingly.. I wish Russia and us could be part of said coalition but it is too late for us I fear.

Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists and it is only a matter of time that some of you will probably blow up a mosque or two in the USA...i think you should check your own hatred...
Posted by: sayid

I CAN'T WAIT!!!! Better yesterday than today!! They are IN OUR LANDS and we are the Resistance.

We will NOT be assimilated, sayid.

GOD WILLING. There is no GOD but GOD and Jesus is His Prophet, His son.. whateever.. Any religion is better than that death cult with the mosks.

"...like i said, both groups need to be encaged together so they can destroy each other and the rest of us sane people can live our lives in peace and tranqulity..." From a posting by Sayid

I would like to know a little more about the sane people living in peace and tranquility

1) Do they all respect freedom of conscience and expression?
2) Do they all recognize separation of religion from secular government and law?
3) Do they all reject cruel and unusual punishment?
4) Are these values held throughout the world, in the West and, say, in Saudi Arabia or the Sudan or anywhere you might think of?

Another thought, originating from the preceding list and the tone of the earlier postings by Sayid. Some folks think that being even-handed in a debate means making both parties equally culpable or equally laudable. To do this is either a sign of laziness -a carelessness in getting informed, cowardice -a fear of what the new information might do to one's mindset, maybe even a fear of rocking the boat, or duplicity -a deliberate attempt to prevaricate in order to advance one's own agenda. Even-handedness is none of these. Instead, it is the balanced weighing of the evidence within its context, even if the conclusions are inconvenient.

It would seem that Sayid has taken the time to level blanket criticism of the posters on this site and the individuals calling for slaughter. This moral equivalence is not helpful. Sayid might render service by pointing out to the posters on this site where the jihadis err in their interpretation of Islamic scripture. He would do a great service to establishing a sane world by pointing out to the jihadis themselves where their error is, turning them from bloodshed. Or will we hear, as we've heard before, some lame excuse about how acts of Islamic terrorism are reactions to the suffering inflicted upon the Moslem people? If so, where were the jihadis when Saddam Hussein ran Iraq? I'm dying to know.

chatillon...

"Some folks think that being even-handed in a debate means making both parties equally culpable or equally laudable. To do this is either a sign of laziness -a carelessness in getting informed, cowardice -a fear of what the new information might do to one's mindset, maybe even a fear of rocking the boat, or duplicity -a deliberate attempt to prevaricate in order to advance one's own agenda. Even-handedness is none of these. Instead, it is the balanced weighing of the evidence within its context, even if the conclusions are inconvenient."

I will not be drawn into trying to say that one side is better than the other in this war...i do not take sides because i dont think, deep down, that the world is black and white the way so many in the world do. This is your silly war...You may say what you like or think what you will about me but to me you both have a lot to learn. for the most part i live my life to the best of my ability in peace...i dont need leaders or prezidents or a pope or mullah to give my life meaning..I think it is because people cant control themselves because they are too childish that they need leaders to draw inspiration from...me i dont need any of it...it is your war not mine...i can talk to a radical islamist just as i can talk to a crazed arrogant westerner...

Before someone will angrily blow up a mosque or two in the USA, please read the following :

It is a pity that many infidels fail to understand that it is the duty of a Muslim to foster and defend Islam even it means he has to lie and bullshit. In Islam, intentions are everything, for Allah knows what is in his heart. Intentions lie at the heart of taqiyya and martyrdom. That's the major difference between moderate Christianity and radical Islam.

It is always interesting to see people argue in the emptiness of the Internet. It seems that no one can ever win an argument here. You can't because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Well, suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is "non compos mentis." Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. Remember that when you do argue, attack the issue, not the person with whom you argue. Let a man save his face when you can prove he is wrong.

This ten-minute video, titled "Rise Up," was posted on Islamist websites on October 22, 2006, and was described as "a gift for 'Eid Al-Fitr."
.....................

Finally--a video gift for Eid! Friends who celebrate Christmas have so many choices--It's a Wonderful Life, Miracle on Thirty-Fourth Street, A Charlie Brown Christmas--and so much more. The pickings a a bit slimmer for Hannukah--Eight Crazy Nights, some adorable shots of little tots singing the Dreidl song--still good stuff.

Now we no longer need to leave our Islamist friends out of the festivities!

..............

still fed up...it is obvious you dont know where i am coming from...as far as i am concerned you are about as intelligent as a backward islamic goat farmer...to me, you and your haughty high brow western buddies and your MTV are just as sick as those radical islamist...so dont toss me into the mix with other Muslims...i am a free thinker and you follow the crowd..you leming you...

still fed up...since when is turkey a buddist country...yeah i bet you' dlove to imprison me you fascist dictator you...i dont need a country or religion to give me identity the way you probably do...

sayid-"still fed up...since when is turkey a buddist country...yeah i bet you' dlove to imprison me you fascist dictator you...i dont need a country or religion to give me identity the way you probably do..."

It's Official, sayid is STUPID!

sayid, If you can't keep up, shut up!

ok..whatever you say Hitler...maybe it is appropriate that you are in Germany...did you read your Mein Kampf today?
Posted by: sayid

There you go again.. :-)
A person is in Germany and they are a Nazi for saying something. right out of the lefty-liberal-jihazi playbook. Just like the palis who protest against Israel with swastikas all over the Israeli flag - BECAUSE THEY KNOW THIS IS THE GREATEST OUTRAGE THEY CAN INFLICT. You are an enemy that knows no no bounds.

Have you read "MEIN KORAN" today, troll sayid?

The Nazi, sayid.. let me tell you, the Nazi is you.

germaninamerica, It's no use, sayid doesn't have the mental compacity to comprehend rational thought.

*Don't feed the troll

Troll? Troll? Ok whatever...i think that you people and the Islamic terrorists are nothing more than the flip side of the same coin!!!you both are going to get us killed...you both are greedy and think you are superior with your culture, economics, and nationalism/religion...you both are crazed warmongers...good day if you can still have one...
Posted by: sayid

Uh-NO!
We are superior indeed and yet all we wish is to pursue our lives in peace. Next time you get in a car, sayid... next time you get on a plane.. in fact next time you see one flying over..

ALL THIS HAS BEEN CREATED BY THE WESTERN CIVILISATION!!

In fast next time you wipe your a** you may kiss the ground and thank us for indoor plumbing and toilet paper.

what is islam's contribution to these things? The automobile = car bomb. The airplane = hijacking, bombing and flying them into buildings. Buildings the likes of which you minstrels won't be able to build in a 1000 years.

Posting by Sayid: "me i dont need any of it...it is your war not mine." and: "..yeah i bet you' dlove to imprison me you fascist dictator you...i dont need a country or religion to give me identity the way you probably do..."

Is a little of our free thinking getting to you Sayid? you're joining in on a little war of your own Sayid?

"I will not be drawn into trying to say that one side is better than the other in this war"

Are you really Ted Turner?

"i do not take sides because i dont think, deep down, that the world is black and white the way so many in the world do."

Aren't you taking the side of people who don't think the world is black and white vs. people who do think it's black and white? Isn't that itself a black and white distinction? People think in binary fashion, there's nothing wrong with that, so long as that binary thinking isn't clouded with moral cretinism.

"This is your silly war...You may say what you like or think what you will about me but to me you both have a lot to learn. for the most part i live my life to the best of my ability in peace"

Ah, moral superiority complex at its finest. You know what, I used to live my life to the best of my ability in peace, too. In fact, after the Cold War ended, I wanted to go along with Francis Fukayama's theory that history was over. It was only when a bunch of Muslims decided they wanted to renew the fight that I got interested.

"i dont need leaders or prezidents or a pope or mullah to give my life meaning..I think it is because people cant control themselves because they are too childish that they need leaders to draw inspiration from...me i dont need any of it"

Armchair amateur psychology syndrome strikes! Most people who post here probably don't need leaders or presidents or popes or mullahs, either, except insofar as they serve as touchpoints of leadership in times when individual initiative is not enough and you need mass scale to accomplish an objective. As Western free-men, we make the tradeoff between individualism and collectivism on a pragmatic basis. Believe me, I look forward to the day when the word Islam ceases to be a word I need to know, because learning about it and knowing about it have added ZERO value to my life. I'm much happier reading Western, i.e. real and well-thought out, philosophy, than the writings of Islamic pseudo-intellectuals.

"i can talk to a radical islamist just as i can talk to a crazed arrogant westerner..."

Yeah, I'm sure those Fox reporters forced to convert at gunpoint thought the same thing. Until they were forced to convert at gunpoint, that is.

Hi Sayid:

Getting back to the sane people, living in peace and tranquility that you mentioned earlier: You haven't yet described what that world looks like. How do the people living in that world manage their differences? In that world of yours, what differences might exist?

If you don't want to make the effort to understand the West and what it offers vs. what Islam offers, that's your choice. The information is out there.
Posted by: venividivici

I'd like to add.. FYI, sayid.. there are many nice moslem countries you are free to live in if you hate us Westerners so much. WE no longer have the luxury of living in a land that is free of burka-clad swine and bearded loudmouths and caterwauling imams.

OUR LANDS HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED!

[http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm]
Posted by: pagandkapitat

Hey..

I resemble that remark! I love Pagans! I love all non-moslems!

Granted not all Muslims are making these statements, but there are enough of them doing so all around the world and it is enraging our citizens.

Unfortunately, Muslims are "branding" themselves.

Posted by: sounder

Don't forget the ones NOT making statements are still of the same opinions as those who do. Tacquiyya.

The troll du jour has been banned.

since muslim doesn't get SARCASM.

"yeah i bet you' dlove to imprison me you fascist dictator you..."

DAMN.. that was FUNNY. He really didn't get it. Who'd a-thunk?

I am still laughing.. can hardly write. islam truly has no humor.

hey sayid.. the world is flat. be careful you don't fall off the edge if you go too far...

Post by germaninamerica: "Don't forget the ones NOT making statements are still of the same opinions as those who do. Tacquiyya."

You are right, thats the scary part. It seems these Islamists can "flip" with a visit to a Mosque, a Mosque that we westeners allowed and extended their rights to include by the way!

"muslim doesn't get SARCASM."

I learned recently that people who suffer from autism have an inability to grasp figurative and metaphorical statements and can only understand things literally. Perhaps Islam inculcates a kind of mass autism.

All we are sure of is that nobody loves the pagans, thank you, but may be, we gonna have the last snigger!

[http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm]
Posted by: pagandkapitat

Hey Pagan.. WE didn't make this US foreign 'policy' - just as now WE are NOT in favor of the mufti immigration into our lands.

Our politicians do NOT speak for us. After the war, we may have to discuss a more pure and direct form of Democracy.. one where foreign governments cannot buy influence would be a good start.

But now we gather for war, Pagan, and I hope to count you among us. We will have your back as we expect you have ours.

We know the enemy and who he is. We know we face a devious and cruel foe that knows no humanity. When the time comes LET's FIGHT accordingly.

"The troll du jour has been banned."

Awwwww. Gee. I had some more questions for Sayid.

I think his feelings got hurt because he called me a "crazed, arrogant westerner." I'd like to know whether he got offended because I'm crazed, because I'm arrogant or because I'm a Westerner.

I can't believe I just checked in and missed the troll completely. Darn it! And you guys look like you've been having such a blast!

If Sayid wants evidence of Muslim terrorism, hatred, murder and the like all he has to do is read the links from this website, everyday, and he'll soon learn who is doing what to whom, who are the fascists, who are the dictators and who is doing all the lying.

I thought about this last night, that even though the news is controlled we still manage to get the truth about Muslim atrocities, day in and day out. And if the news outlets aren't publishing a fraction of what's going on, then I sure am glad I don't live in any of those Islamic hellholes masquerading as kinder, gentler places to live. Sayid can lie all he wants...we who study here at JWU have passed that test and know better.

Chatillon, a "crazed, arrogant westerner"? Stop it. You are getting me all hot and bothered.

Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists and it is only a matter of time that some of you will probably blow up a mosque or two in the USA...i think you should check your own hatred...
Posted by: sayid

Hey Mr. Sayid, WTF are we supposed to do here? Give in, convert, and or die? There comes a time when one must fight fire with fire. America appeased the muslims much in the 90's if you don't remember Clinton and Arafat and look what it got us, 9-11. You think we should just give the muslims everything they ask for and ignore the savagery?(Not that the West can't be a little savage at times.) Just look at achievements the West has made and compare it with the Muslim world. Trust me you don't want the West to focus it's energy on destruction. You think the Mujadeen are bad you haven't seen a renegade group of Americans. I don't want another dark age thank you very much Mr. Sayid.

It is always interesting to see people argue in the emptiness of the Internet. It seems that no one can ever win an argument here. You can't because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Well, suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is "non compos mentis." Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. Remember that when you do argue, attack the issue, not the person with whom you argue. Let a man save his face when you can prove he is wrong.
Posted by: kung fu fighter

Why should we let the islamists save face - UNLESS therein lies a benefit for US and our cause? I am here to learn as much as I can and to increase our numbers of the Aware. Thus it's good to do a little duck shooting whenever a troll appears. They resent more than our verbal triumphs. They resent the very triumph of our culcture and our civilization. And how would we hide those from them? I sure wish we could keep all these good things for ourselves.. now that I realize that sharing them is pearls before swine.

with freedom there is a price to pay, and there is always someone trying to take our freedom away so we need to be vigilant in our defense of freedom. We will and we have paid the ultimate price for freedom many many times in case you did not know. And we always win.
Posted by: Grunt

And you will always get more people to join you.

The troll du jour has been banned.

Posted by: MarisolJW at October 24, 2006 03:02 PM

Just wondering why? Just because he spouted drivel shouldn't get him banned-that would make JW look as bad as its opponents claim. If nothing else, he was quite entertaining (unintentionally, of course).

with freedom there is a price to pay, and there is always someone trying to take our freedom away so we need to be vigilant in our defense of freedom. We will and we have paid the ultimate price for freedom many many times in case you did not know. And we always win.
Posted by: Grunt

Actually You know what is sad?

An Indian [non-moslem] man told me years ago: "Why are all these Amrican kids unhappy and dissatisfied with living in comfort in the suburbs and then going to a nice college? They have so much to complain about and they are so angry to be living in the best contry in the world. I can tell you there are millions of kids in India who'd trade places with any of them at the drop of a hat."

These disaffected youth now are working for npr and cnn.. they are Hillary; and Barney Frank. They are in Hollywood. They play in bands and get to enjoy the "rockstar lifestyle". They work in media and in publishing and they hold tenured positions in teaching. They are in the arts in all its forms. They share a common disdain for this country and to a lesser extent - for Europe. They are convinced of the righteousness of their views when it's clear as water for the VAST MAJORITY among us that these people and their activities are nothing but a slap in the face to the good people who see this country as worth fighting for! People who risk and even give their lives to make the country safe for these people who have installed themselves at the top.

Too bad the troll is banned.. nothing but a good turkey hunt.. Thanksgiving is drawing near.

German,

"They resent more that our verbal triumphs. They resent the very triumph of our culture and our civilization. And how we hide those from them?"

And they use the triumphs of our civilization against us, things like fairness, consideration for other people's well being, as well as donating our time and treasure. I'm sick to death of hearing how America is bad and we're all bad. B.S. The American people are the most generous on the face of the earth. And if we go down the tubes, there will be no one to help any of these third world countries. Do they think Indonesia, China or South America will send them the aid that we do? They need to stick that in their pipe and smoke it.

Speaking of Obama..

I'm afraid a little googling under "obama muslim" reveals a SLEW of comments such as the one below:

[

No surprise here. He's black and he has a Muslim name. The feel good, hand wringing, breast beaters are just so overcome with the pure emotion of having an elected official that has so many minority facets to his make up.

They are the Party of "feel goodism" and they are sooo proud of having their very own black, Muslim sounding Representative that they can't stand it. You can bet they are all saying to each other "See, see we ARE the Party of diversity, look who WE elected" The only thing that would have given him a higher rating is if he had a congenital birth defect.

]

He says muslim sounding but that's enough for me. He's worse than Hillary or McCain. Muslim sounding = muslim lateron.

What's aggravating re: Sayid is that he gets to say "this is your war."

I hate to agree with Sayid (for obvious reasons)but what can I say in rebuttal? Nada, zip, zero.

Our collective hatred of Islam is one thing, but the effort to defend our idiotic adventure in Iraq is something else entirely.

Not one Islamophobe on this board would have spilled a drop of American blood to bring civilization to the Mohammadroids.

I am fully deployed in the War Against Terrorism, but Sayid's talking about Iraq which has become a War For Terrorism. The Iraq war is our war, Sayid's right, and you can thank Dubya The Dhimwit.

I am sorry if I divert the tread this deeply into it, but I wanted everyone to see this interesting article on Barack Obama. It's beginning to look like the man is a dvious snake. Too bad.. i'd thought of him as fresh blood and new ideas and that he'd be able to turn into a Rossevelt of sorts.

I have to admit that these hopes are being severely dashed. Thank you A.i.G. for getting me off my lazy to investigate the guy.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1189687/posts

Whatever...!!! you want some cheese with that wine. Sounds like the next Michael Moore vid. Posted by: americanmadestrat

I don't know of any right winger who has watched any Michael Moore Video, yet they still try to ridicule and defame them.

The great sin of Farenheit 9-11 is that Michael Moore condemns, and documents the involvement, of the Saudis in 9-11, and no he isn't kind to Bush (who should be, as he and his cabal lied like hell, cooked intelligence and insulted your intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq, creating yet another satrapy and ally of Iran (at our expense).

Moore relied on Craig Under (House of Bush House of Saud) to produce F 9-11. Unger's book could not be published in London because of the Brit libel laws (which have nothing to do with libel and everything to do with harm even if the info is the truth). Unger's book and Moores movie is an embarassment and indictment of George W. Bush and the Saudis (their family friends, patrons and business partners).And that is why the Right Wing media has demonized Michael Moore..they don't want you to think or know the truth about the Bush Saudi petroleum finance terrorism connection.

As regards bowling for Columbine, if you had seen that show, you would have a different opinion.. what he says is that there are as many guns in Canada as there are in the U.S. per capita, but Canada doesn't have our problem with gun violence, because Canadian news doesn't glorify violence.. there is no "breaking news" of shootings and muggings.. in fact Canadian news is very boring by our standards, and it doesn't incite violence. Michael Moore is not "anti gun" at all.

Ynkedoodl,

One of the reasonably good arguments for supporting the Iraq War as a war for democracy was the empirical research that someone did at the Kennedy School. My understanding of the backstory was that the researcher set out to show the connection between poverty and terrorism, but ended up instead showing that political freedom and terrorism were more strongly linked. The more political freedom, the less terrorism, although for populations just emerging from authoritarianism, there was an initial uptick in terrorism.

http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~aabadie/povterr.pdf

The idea that democracy equals less terror over time is not completely disproven at this point, at least not empirically.

Unfortunately, I can't get the PDF to open for me right now and I read it around the time of the 2004 US elections, so I can't remember if he explicitly controlled for the religious affiliations of the population. Of course, he should have if he didn't, but even then the statistical outcomes might have been the same.

Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter*.-

These people are soooo sick.

At the end of this study:

http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~aabadie/povterr.pdf

The researcher makes two points.

1) There is an "observed increase in terrorism in countries making the transition from authoritarian regimes to democracies"

and,

2) "the results show that certain geographic characteristics may favor the rise in terrorism."

Let me add my own two cents.

1) Iraq will never make the transition to a democracy. At best there will be a fundamentalist Sunni and fundamentalist Shia state. Each will be about as democratic as Iran or Saudi Arabia.

2)When the researcher talks about "certain geographic characteristics" impeding democracy, he is talking about geographical proximity to dar al-Islam.

Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter?*. -

No wonder these mothers don't give a f... to make their lives more comfortable. They should all be launched out of this world, and I don't care where.

If there is anybody here has any doubt that we don't have to fight these pathetic morons till they are totally annihilated, that person should have their head tested URGENTLY or that person is with the murdering MohD’s terrorists.

Not one Islamophobe on this board would have spilled a drop of American blood to bring civilization to the Mohammadroids.

I am fully deployed in the War Against Terrorism, but Sayid's talking about Iraq which has become a War For Terrorism. The Iraq war is our war, Sayid's right, and you can thank Dubya The Dhimwit.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl

I certainly think the Iraq war was a delusion at best. Saddam Hussein was a staunch enemy or Iran and he was brutally repressing islam - better than any of our governments could ever claim to do. Yes, from my POV, he was a useful dictator.

I'd much rather have bombed SOWdia a**rabia and Iran - just as a warning to them to stay out of Afghanistan - and as a warning to Pakistan to tread lightly while we ERADICATE the Teleban - no press allowed while we do either.

But yes, Dubya Dhimwit has to take all the baits thrown at his stupid self.

Is anyone here involved with the United American Committee? I'd like to know if they're a good outfit to get involved with.

Germaninamerica,

"Why should we let the islamists save face - UNLESS therein lies a benefit for US and our cause? I am here to learn as much as I can and to increase our numbers of the Aware. Thus it's good to do a little duck shooting whenever a troll appears. They resent more than our verbal triumphs. They resent the very triumph of our culcture and our civilization. And how would we hide those from them? I sure wish we could keep all these good things for ourselves.. now that I realize that sharing them is pearls before swine."

First, I admire your combined outspokenness, wit, and verbal skills -- which are second to none here, especially if you are indeed a German in America.

However, my perspective is different from you, though I am infidel myself like you. If war of any kind -- be it the Iraq War, or the verbal battle between you and Muslim troll "sayid" -- is won simply through strength, then America has already won the Iraq War and the US military behemoth has not failed so miserably in this war, the Vietnam War and the Korea War. As a kung fu fighter, I see war is won not through strength but through skillful manipulation -- a victory of the writing brush and brains over sword and strength.

To let an Islamist save face when we can prove he is wrong means to capture an enemy when you can destroy him. For, to win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skillful manipulation. Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy. In the cases of "sayid" and many Muslim trolls here, their strategy is to irritate and confuse infidel posters by luring you into endless arguments in the emptiness of the Internet. You become angry, hateful, and eventually as radical as the very Muslim enemy whom you try hard to destroy. Your day is ruined. They don't defeat you; you defeat yourself! They enjoy the last laugh behind you.

Remember the fine words of Richard Nixon : "Always remember that others may hate you. Those who hate you do not win unless you hate them. Then you destroy yourself." Hatred is a destructive emotion in your life.

To know your enemy without knowing yourself, you only have 50% of chance to win a battle. To know yourself without knowing your enemy, you only have 50% of chance to win a battle. However, to know your enemy and to know yourself, you have 100% of chance to win a battle.

Sayid, Happy Ramadan. There is a difference in the clash of cultures. As pointed out by the religion of peace website: "Celebrating the end of Ramadan in the traditional way. This year the Religion of Peace racked up well over 1600 dead bodies and 291 deadly terror attacks in 17 countries across the globe during its holiest month."
If you do not denounce this you become an accomplice!

I never met a crusader but If some one can show me where they hang out, I'll sign up just for the cool smock and sword.

maybe Bush should just build a huge wall around you and the Islamists and let you two groups destroy each other...the rest of us can watch and eat popcorn at the spectacle...radical christian fundamentalists v. the radical Jihadists...great entertainment...
Posted by: sayid

If you aren't a muslim yourself, you ought to know the crocodile will eat you too. It is just a question of now or later. So if you think you can be uninvolved, think again.

The problem with living on the other side of the world is that we miss out on the fun with trolls.

Sayid did have some good points, and I do think from his point of view that some of the comments do come across as though everyone here is a religious fundamentalist. I do think that people do need to temper the comments just a bit, otherwise the trolls will keep coming back and having a field day. Keep in mind that not all trolls are Muslim. They can be left wing moonbats like Cindy Sheehan.

I am going to state again, that it is inappropriate to make the claim that Allah is a moon god. This is a story that was made up by an associate of Jack Chick. It is not true. What is worse, this is the kind of comments that gets the back up of even the most moderate secular Muslim. Yes, there are secular Muslims and I have met quite a few of them. It is not in the interests of the Christian faith to continue to make this false claim. If you want to point out that Allah is a false god, then you need to concentrate on the fact that it is the Muslim perception of Allah that causes Allah to be a false god. By this I mean that Momahood is the one responsible for the way in which Allah is viewed - as a Master/Slave relationship.

One of the best Christian theologians of our time is Scott Hahn, and he was supposed to have a debate with a Muslim. Hahn has lectured about what happened, and why the debate did not take place. The Muslim got upset because Scott referred to God as our Father. Think about this for a minute, for it is the crux of the issue - the Muslim refused to debate with Scott Hahn because Scott referred to God as "Father". The Muslims have no concept of God that is like our own intimate understanding of God. Their concept is based upon that of a puppet Master, and slave.

By thinking on the way in which Muslims perceive Allah, one can see how Islam is a religion of idolators. They idolise Muhamood, even though they deny this charge. Let us face facts, they claim that no pictures are to be drawn of this false prophet. This is a command that allegedly came from Allah, but in reality it is something that came from the sick mind of a camel driver false prophet. The proof of the idolatry lies in the way in which they see this false prophet as the perfect man and they seek to emulate his exploits.

Anyone who has ever studied the pagan religions, especially that of Greece, Rome and Egypt, knows that the images of the pagan gods come out of the fertile minds of the worshippers. This is what happens in Islam.

Let us focus, not on false claims about Allah, but on how Muslims worship both Allah and Mohoomud, the camel driver and false prophet. This is the best way to deal with the hold that the imams have upon a people that has been kept in the dark and on strings so that when the imam says it is time to rage, they go stark raving mad.

"We know our enemy. It is Islam
How do we know?
For the qur'an tells me so...."

Sing along now....

Allah hates me, this I know
For the qur'an tells me so.
Little girls to him belong,
they are weak and he is wrong. {that line could use some tweaking}
Yes, allah hates me
Yes, allah hates me
Yes, allah hates me
The qur'an tells me so.

(Jesus will forgive me:) because He loves me)

Sayid if a FOOL.

Sayid IS a FOOL.

Typo...

Western Civilization is SUPERIOR to the Culture of Death called Islam.

Muhammad is a FALSE & FRAUDULENT "prophet".

Maggie4life,

This explains why muslims do not like the term "father" you are right, allah was not the moon God nor is he the same as the Christian God, but that's another story.

The highest god in old pre-Islamic Arabia was the moon god. He is called “bull”, or “father”, or amm= “uncle”, or kahil=”the old one”, hukm=”the wise one” or wadd=”the loving one”. Many amulets carry the inscription: abm wdm “Father is love". A tribe calls itself “the sons of Wadd”. He is also simply “the god”(=Allah).There is a whole cycle of lunar traces left in the yearly feast, Hagg of Arafa, acc. to Ditlef Nielsen (Handbuch der Altarabischen Altertumskunde, 1.Bd:Die Altarabische Kultur,1927,pp.213-24). But also Yhvh of the Old Testament has a cycle of feasts connected with the moon. At full-moon 13 young bulls are sacrificed at the beginning of the autumn-feast, the second day 12, the third day 11, etc. On the 7th day 7 (Num 29). As the moon becomes smaller, so does the number of bulls sacrificed (Nielsen, ibd. p.244)

Carolyn2, lol you could be the wierd al of islamaphobia :-) I loved it, thanks for the laugh.

Here is a link about the moon god.
Is allah decended from this pagan diety?
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

descended ↑

Jihadist holiday video calls for jihad and slaughter of "Crusaders"

A jihadist's holiday song - "Deck the Halls with Several Dead Bodies".

Thanks, Ronin :) {maybe Hugh won't see that emoticon}

pagandkapitat,
It is true pagandkapitat that there are Muslims or Christians zealots to save our souls, but Western style secular societies are our best allies. This is third world war and no one can afford to be neutral. Even without US, Pakistan-China axis would be as big threat to Pagans as it could have been with US aid to Pakistan. At least in western style democratic society, we can continue practicing whatever we want as long as it is harmless society. I am not a big fan of christians, but I would not be able to live in a Talebinised society.

SEcondly, nice that you mention Mein Kampf, it's the best selling book in TURKEY, which is a buddist country of course". - stillfedup

"..since when is turkey a buddist country.." Syeid the Troll.

These people are soooooooo sick, everything goes way over them.

Instead of fighting a war, I think we ought to find a medicine to cure Islam in their little screwed-up brain.

Dear Maggie4Life,

Sorry but your claim that "allah" was not originally a "moon god" is FALSE.

"Allah" was the chief god of the many gods among pagan Arabs in Arabia. Muhammad, was born in Mecca in the Quraish tribe around A.D. 570. The Quaraish of Mecca had a lucrative business as the guardians of the Ka'aba, an idol temple filled with some three hundred sixty images representing the various tribal deities worshipped by anyone who might be traveling with of the huge commercial caravans passing through Mecca. Allah (a contraction of Al-ilah, literally, "the chief god") was recognized as the chief of the idols in the Ka'aba. It had been the official god of Muhammad's tribe for centuries before he was born.

The chief god, "Allah", was the moon god. Even today you see remnants of that fact in the symbol used by the Muslims, i.e. the crescent.

Muhammad just eventually waged war against the other Arab pagan worshippers and forced (subdued) all in the area to worship his pagan moon god called "allah".

But even if you disbelieve the above, "allah of the Quran" is not the true God of the Bible. When the God of the Bible is compared with the "Allah of the Quran", you can see they are totally different in who they are and what they advocate.

"Allah of the Quran" is a false god, a creation of Satan, whether or not you believe that allah was originally a moon god.

Christianity & Judiasm have nothing in common with Islam, but that Islam has hijacked prophets and Jesus from the Bible, conterfeited them, and made them out to be something entirely different then what the Bible says of them.

But don't take my word for it. Pick up the Bible and read it. I have. Then pick up the Quran and read it. I have. The statement that we worship the same God is a horrific laughable outrageous lie. Also it is a big lie to claim that "Islam is peaceful". The "radical" Muslims who declare jihad and demand that the world subjugate themselves to Islam or die are in fact true faithful followers of Islam as it really is.

Muslims who claim Islam is a Book of peace are either liars, as the Quran instructs them to lie, or are apostates who will face death too for not following the Quran as it is written.

Nice link Carolyn2

The chief god, "Allah", was the moon god. Even today you see remnants of that fact in the symbol used by the Muslims, i.e. the crescent.-Levi

Interesting - Muslim's were really touchy about Neil Armstrong after his moon landing when he went to visit various countries. Islamic countries put out news that he heard some Islamic prayers on the moon and converted to Islam, which was all BS. It took the State Dept. some effort to tell them NA did not convert to Islam.

I think it could be related to 'Moon God' concept.

Ok, lets forget about where allah hangs his peanut sized hat and get back on the whole these clowns want us all to be scared thang. It is not working because we have moved on to wondering if muslims howl at the raising sun or at full moons. Personally I could careless. I like the crusader thing so much I just ordered a “crusader ring” on line, probably nothing like it was ever worn by a crusader but it will no doubt cause muslims to be uncomfortable. One plus to this site is when they (evil muslim sun worshipping, moonbats) monitor it and see we are really not afraid it will cause them to make even bigger threats and we laugh at them and the process starts all over again.

These current threats seem to me to be a cry for help, he is begging someone to do something so he can take credit. The only danger is some clown will see himself as a great mujahid and hurt someone. The speaker is not giving permission for an attack he is begging for one.

I posted this long proposal before on an earlier thread, but I think most here did not see it. So if you read it before, my apologies--please scroll on past.

I think that for us to win, we must attack the ideology. But for practical reasons we cannot do that directly. The key thing is we must focus on Mohammed as distinct from Islam. Here is my proposal, once again:

I am sure that we all agree, for the good of all mankind, we need to vigorously defend our civilization against the ideology that produces jihad.

We in the west have been stymied in this effort because of our inability as a society to recognize that Islam, as it behaves globally, does not distinguish between religious ideas and political ideas. The deliberate propaganda (dawa) and deception (taqiyya) by the Muslim apologists are therefore quite effective in confusing us into inaction.

Generally, Muslims use our good will and freedoms as weapons against us. In particular, they inflict political paralysis through deceptive wordplay: They make deceptive statements like “Islam forbids violence,” for instance, when they really mean that violence is forbidden only against other pious Muslims but okay against infidels. They say that “Islam is a religion of peace,” where, to them, the term “peace” means the peace that comes only after the entire population of the earth has been conquered and forced to submit to absolute Islamic rule.

We have to fight back using wordplay also, but wordplay based on the historical truth and some loose conceptual ties to some of the typical Muslim dawa. Robert’s recent book on Mohammed provides the key clue on how to do this.

Here, simply, is what we must do: In all our communications and actions, we must SEPARATE the definitions of Islam and Mohammedanism.

[Note that I am not trying here to proselytize for Christianity—it is just that Christianity fits the bill here, because the Muslims consider Jesus to be an Islamic prophet. They don’t think of Buddha that way, for example; otherwise, I would be using Buddha in this proposal. Also, I think it would be good to fold in more of Moses and the Jews in here somehow, but that is an exercise for another time, perhaps.]

We must broadcast globally the following point of view--that “Islam” means, as it started out long ago to mean, followers of the Muslim prophet Jesus (Isa). In our promulgated official understanding, “Islam” does not mean “submission” to the corrupted, violent, and self-serving warrior doctrines of Mohammed. Rather, “Islam” is the combination of “Isa” plus “salam.” Isa (Jesus) was the Prince of Peace, and salam is the Islamic word for peace (Note that the Muslims never tire, in their endless dawa, of telling us about the salam thing). So yes, “true Islam” is a “Religion of Peace,” and by the way, it is, at root, the same religion we call “Christianity” in the West. However, the holy book of “true Islam” is actually the New Testament, not the Koran.

After being shunned in Mecca, the sometime merchant Mohammed, jealous of Isa, blasphemously declared himself a prophet, superior to Isa and Moses, and fooled everyone into joining his personal quest for power and sex. He took the teachings of Isa, and added violence, misogyny, and intolerance for others. Thus, he turned Islam upside down, introducing mortal sins into Islamic doctrine, as if these attitudes were somehow noble.

So our message to the Islamic world is that true Islam—the teachings of Isa and Moses--is constructive and good. Mohammedanism—the teachings of the deceiver Mohammed—is destructive and bad.

Here is why this point of view is potentially so useful and practical.

1. As has been observed on this web site many times before, piecemeal reform of Islam, by excluding certain Hadiths, or reinterpreting certain Koranic verses (suras), won’t work. One would have to throw out almost everything. And one of the doctrines says that the Koran is the literal Word of God—so reinterpreting is not permitted in any case. This latter restriction is just another one of the “Mohammedan” ideas, so clearly concocted to serve Mohammed himself.

So what is a moderate Muslim to do? Where can he go with his faith? To adapt to the modern world, he either has to become an apostate to Islam and face punishment by assassination from fellow Muslims, or accept absolutely everything in the Koran and Hadiths.

Well, positing that Islam is really a sect of Christianity by another name gives the Muslims a way out!

In our counter-dawa campaign, we have to convince them they need only reject “Mohammedanism.” They do not have to become “apostates” to Islam itself. True, rejecting Mohammedanism means tossing out lots of stuff, like the Koran, the Hadith, and sharia law, but all of that is built on Mohammed’s fully documented corruption of the faith (see Robert’s book, for instance). Muslims everywhere are inspired by religion—they wish to live righteously, and that is good and noble. Rejecting Mohammedanism means dumping the vices that Mohammed added to Islam--the self-serving quest for unbridled power and unrestrained sex--and returning to the roots of Islam—the peaceful and tolerant teachings of Isa.

2. What does this point of view do for us in the west?

Today, we find that we cannot erect laws to restrain Islam, because it is a religion, and we have freedom of religion enshrined in our constitution. And so it should be.

But there is nothing to stop us from legally restraining “Mohammedanism,” which we can say with confidence, is not a religion (Sura 8, the chapter in the Koran on how to distribute loot, is enough to prove that for me). Mohammedanism embodies all the “bad parts” appended onto Islam by the false prophet—violence, intolerance, misogyny, etc. Mohammedanism embodies egregious violations of civil rights and fundamental freedoms, freedoms that our constitution, at its very foundation, protects.

Therefore, we can leave “true Islam” alone, and ban “Mohammedanism.” Indeed, it is our constitutional duty to do so.

Without abrogating existing law or amending the Constitution, we may write immigration laws that exclude “Mohammedanism” from our shores. During an immigration interview, we ask the prospective future citizen “what does verse 33:21 of the Koran mean to you? If he says it means “Mohammed lived the perfect life, and should be emulated in every way,” then that person does not immigrate—period.

The “Mohammedan test” becomes the means by which we distinguish between moderate Muslims and the others. Moderates unreservedly reject Mohammed as an exemplar of personal behavior. The others are jihadists. Those who lie about it are also jihadists, and subject to administrative and/or criminal punishment, as appropriate. Anyone who insists on taking an oath on Mohammed’s Koran instead of the Bible, is also a jihadist.

With similar laws and regulations, we can quite properly keep Mohammedans off the police force, out of the military and security services, and out of any public office. Mohammed did not accept separation of church and state, or the rule of secular law, or equal protection under the law, or consent of the governed, and neither do his followers. Followers of the example of Mohammed are indeed a security threat in any public office of the land. We must deal with this truth.

With similar laws and regulations, we can quite properly keep Mohammedans from holding academic positions, and stop them from preaching sedition in mosques. There is no problem with “true Muslims” preaching the peace of the true Islam—the doctrines of Isa. But the Mohammedans, when they reveal their spots, get decertified and deported. Mosques and madrassas that teach Mohammedanism get shut down, without apology.

If the ACLU challenges any of these new laws and regulations, they will have to posit that Mohammedanism is an inseparable part of the religion of Islam. At that time, we produce Robert’s book (and other source documentation, of course), and Mohammed’s vile historical record is then exposed in the national press in a giant “Scopes Monkey Trial” for all to see. We demonstrate how Mohammedanism means religious tyranny for our nation and severe and unacceptable limitation of constitutional freedoms for all citizens. In short, the ACLU either exposes itself as the traitorous enemy of freedom it is, or it loses the case by default.

3. Another benefit of conceptually separating Islam and Mohammedanism is that it gives us in the west not just a passive defense capability, but an ideological offense capability.

As long as we permit the conflation of Islam and Mohammedanism to persist, we in the west artificially limit our range of responses in dealing with the Islamic world. As Mohammedanism continues to grow without ideological challenge, eventually we will either have to quarantine all Muslim countries in self defense, or, after appeasement fails, wage massive total warfare on them—the “pyramid of skulls” approach. Neither of these outcomes is appealing to our peaceful and generous nature. Neither is necessary if we confront and defeat the ideology.

If we separate the two ideas of Islam and Mohammedanism, we can take action now rather than wait to be slowly drawn into a draconian and endless bi-polar global conflict.

We will be able to take actions like the following:

Translate the New Testament into Arabic (and other languages), slap a cover on it with the title “True Islam” (Isa plus salam), include in it a preface with a refutation of the false “Mohammedanism,” and distribute it everywhere (by air drop, if necessary).

Set up radio transmitters and web sites to broadcast this message across the globe, much like radio free Europe during the Cold War. Keep repeating the message over and over. Undermine the power mad imams, clerics, and ayatollahs by presenting a hopeful alternative, based on historical truths and the rejection of Mohammedan thought.

Confidently speak and write about our official policy towards Islamic thinking for the benefit all foreigners, in all venues, including the U.N. and other international organizations, for them to see, to hear, and to understand--that we accept true Muslims, but never Mohammedans—and why.

Unabashedly tell countries whom we offer financial or other help that we will not support them should they ever put sharia law, which is based on Mohammedanism and not on the true Islam, into their constitutions or other legal constructs—and why.

4. There is a final domestic benefit of separating the concepts of Islam and Mohammedanism. Doing so provides a “fig leaf” for our misinformed politicians, who have for decades been declaring that “Islam is a noble religion of peace.” We know that if Islam is defined to include any Mohammedan concepts at all, then that phrase is clearly ignorant and utterly false.

If, on the other hand, we strip out Mohammedanism from the definition of true Islam, our politicians can say “See, that is what I meant all along! That nasty Mohammedanism—political Islam—had hijacked a noble religion of peace, just as I, in my great wisdom, always asserted. I was always so thoughtful and informed, but nobody would listen to me. I was so misunderstood.” Our “leaders” can thereby avoid political embarrassment, and move forward confidently taking practical legal actions in our defense.

If we do not provide such a fig leaf, we will never, ever get the politicians to join the good fight, barring a nuclear attack on the homeland. That’s the kind of fig leaf we should not wait for.

5. To summarize: Conceptually separating Mohammedanism from Islam does the following:

It helps Muslims who genuinely want to reform by giving them a place to go in their faith (back to the true Islam, the teachings of Isa and Moses), while retaining some dignity (they were deceived by a manipulator, a common tragedy in history);

It provides us in the west and elsewhere with a practical means to identify and isolate extremists and keep them out of our lands (the sura 33:21 test—do you believe all that uswa hasana al-insan al-kamil stuff?—if so, you are an extremist);

It creates the foundation for an effective ideological counter-attack to undermine the jihadists globally (promulgate that the false Koran is basically a Mohammedan monstrous corruption of the New Testament--the true basis of their faith, Islam, which is merely a sect or minor offshoot of Christianity);

And finally, it gives our politicians a path to evolve policy and law from where they are now—based on fuzzy untruths and wishful thinking—to something effective and practical for protecting our civilization, without having to attack a “great and noble religion,” and without forcing PR-conscious politicians to publicly admit their previous ignorance on the matter.

Stendec, I can tell you thought this through but it has problems. The koran mentions Isa but he is under muhammed and therefore not important. They had plenty of low prophets and follow none of them, some sects of islam even read the Bible, doesn’t change them.

Well, positing that Islam is really a sect of Christianity by another name gives the Muslims a way out!

This idea would cause even more problems, Christ was not meant to be worshipped, he was placed under muhammed to properly place Christians under muslims. He and Christians do seem to hold a slightly higher position than Jews but not much of one.

Ronin; I think that Stendec's intention is to give politicians and Muslims in name only a fall back position, not so much for the crazies.

It would make it easier for any solution to pass Constitutional muster. Mohammedism = Cult; Islam = New Testament = Legitimate Religion.

Those who go for it earn a get out of jail free card. Those who don't are on record. Makes sense to me as a starting point.

NEWS FLASH: ISLAM IS INSTITUTIONALIZED MURDER!!

The latest in proof is offered by none other than al-Qaeda itself; you can see it in the above article for yourselves. Al Qaeda commands are usually adopted by most Islamic nations sooner or later; Christians and Jews are being subjected to massacres all over the Islamic world ALREADY. The Muslim world is now in the early stages of adopting al-Qaeda's latest commands thereby offering hard proof that Islam is clearly and indeed institutionalized massacre of non-Muslim 'unbelievers.'

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I had an interesting thought: killing to the Muslim world's leaders appears to be much less of an offense than is THINKING.

So, what are we left with? Moralism that only a killer-Zombie could love...

memo to everyone out there: Islam is 100% UNRELATED TO JUDEO-CHRISTIANISM.

We're not even sure that Islam IS a religion. It may well be a political ideology dressed up to resemble a religion.

The first and most telling difference between Abrahamic religions (Christianity and Judaism) and Islam is that Muslims do not worship the Judeo-Christian deity, Yahweh. Al-lah is al-lat, the Mesopotamian moon-god which clearly is NOT Yahweh.

Islam's cultural affinities are Mesopotamian especially with Babylon and Sumeria and not Israel. Much of these cultural beliefs revolve around the moon (as for, example, Ramadan, which begins after the Harvest moon) and the moon-god. Babylonians also practiced human sacrifice and most likely this practice is the real origin of Islam (I have been told that human sacrifice was practiced on Babylonian ziggurats in accordance with positions of the moon; there have been claims made that Babylonians drank human blood....unbelievable and far-fetched until one reads claims made by HAMAS leaders bragging that they will drink the blood of the Israelis, and, examples of Muslim parents strapping bombs onto their children). Notice how Muslims have no taboos against killing. That is an acquired trait which a heritage of human sacrifice could easily explain. It would also explain Islam's desire to massacre out of existence the people who believe strongly in non-violence (buddhists, Christians, Hindsus, and Jews).

Muslim theology and ideology have nothing in common with Judeo-Christianism, either. Muslims believe that murder, bearing false witness against thy neighbor, lying, mutilation of the human body are all acceptaptable under certain circumstances. In Judeo-Christianism these things are NEVER ACCEPTABLE BY DECREE OF YAHWEH!

Islam is about as Abrahamic as the man in the moon! It is a relic of extinct cultures of the Mesopotamian region and is in dire need of being put out of its misery.

Do NOT believe the lies told by Muslims and their apologists. Their explanations for Islam's inherent violence and crimes have more holes in them than a typical slice of Swiss cheese.

After reading the just the first 6 -8 words in a post, I recognize the mind of Striker, Hugh Fitzgerald has struck again, and I immediately perk up with anticipation and he never disappoints. I enjoy deciphering his keen, subtly worded insights.

The Moochers and Looters and Cutters and Runners maybe be lurking and murking, but Strikers like Hugh and Robert will flush them out.

This was the topic before Sayid made its appearance: "Jihadist holiday video calls for jihad and slaughter of 'Crusaders'"

Well the British had a tank in WW2 named Crusader

The US Navy had a fighter named Crusader and another one named Crusader II.

Isenhower named his WW2 memoir "Crusade in Europe."

I think we should use that word as often as possible.

I sometimes wish that the US named its warships the way the British do. How about naming the next boomer sub USS Crusader?

Robert, CAIR is inadvertantly becoming one of your biggest advertisers...

On the CAIR site, they published a piece entitled: "CAIR: ROBERTSON CALLS QURAN 'FRAUDULENT,' REMARK ANGERS MUSLIMS"

http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=41378&theType=NB

Then they left the following link-Which leads to a video conversation between you and Pat Robertson discussing your new book.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/44498.aspx

Geniuses...

CAIR: ROBERTSON CALLS QURAN 'FRAUDULENT,' REMARK ANGERS MUSLIMS

WASHINGTON (AP) -- An American Muslim group is criticizing Virginia Beach religious broadcaster Reverend Pat Robertson for suggesting that the Quran, rather than being a divine revelation, was a fraudulent creation of Muhammad to justify his own actions.

On his television show "The 700 Club" last Thursday, Robertson also said "violent jihad" is a core Islamic teaching, and he said Islam is not a religion of peace.

SEE: http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/44498.aspx
(Note: video may take time to load.)

Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, says Muslims who hear such statements may conclude that their faith is under attack from America.

Ronin; I think that Stendec's intention is to give politicians and Muslims in name only a fall back position, not so much for the crazies.
Posted by: limes

limes, I salute his efforts but no practicing muslim cares what a non pious muslim or if you prefer “moderate” has to say. There is no single moderate voice anywhere in islam with the power to makes changes, or that has an audience. Talking to moderates and working things out is a waste of resources and distracts from the real mission of saving our way of life. It also gives non muslims a false hope that we can simply work things out slowly and peacefully, 1400 years of history should have taught us better.

kung fu fighter wrote:

It is always interesting to see people argue in the emptiness of the Internet. It seems that no one can ever win an argument here. You can't because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Well, suppose you triumph over the other man and shoot his argument full of holes and prove that he is "non compos mentis." Then what? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. Remember that when you do argue, attack the issue, not the person with whom you argue. Let a man save his face when you can prove he is wrong.
..................

Thanks for your perspective.

You are right that many on-line arguments turn into pointless scream fests where no one can win. But then, this happens face to face, also. I also agree that it is pointless (and often cruel) to savagely demolish another person's well-intended argument just because you can. I don't think we want to scare anyone away from an important site like JW/DW by exibiting bad manners.

That said, though, I think it is generally possible to disagree with someone respectfully (as I am doing here, incidently).

Also, while I try not to post unless I am fairly certain of my facts, I can and have made errors. While I prefer that other posters point any errors out to me in a polite manner, I do actually want to be set straight if it is warranted. I also welcome alternate conclusions, although I may not agree with them.

I feel I am here to learn as much (or more) as I am to enlighten others. My ego is not so fragile that I will resent someone that sets me straight on some point.

JW/DW represents a quest for the truth (in this case, about Jihad). Goodness knows, I rarely come here to feel better about things. I come here to find out what is going on.

Hmmm and I never would have thought I would ever agree with Pat Robinson, strange world this.

Opps my fingers are faster than my brain. That would be Pat Robertson, sorry Reverend and DC.

Ronin, you said,

"The koran mentions Isa but he is under muhammed and therefore not important."

That is true, but (as we should insist, when dealing with Muslims) that Mohammed himself made up that very rule in order to serve his selfish quest for power and sex. He cared nothing about salvation of souls. He fooled the Muslims into fighting for his worldly empire. That story of deception should be part of our government's counter-dawa campaign.

What I am saying is that we should not accept the present terms of the debate--this boxes us in. We should not let the Muslims control our policies by controlling word definitions. We must take their words and some of their common assertions and turn them around to put them on the defensive.

We tell the Muslim world that we consider--as a matter of official policy in dealing with them--that all the Mohammedan parts of Islam are false. They are the violent appendages to the peaceful "true Islam." It was Mohammed who "hijacked Islam."

To be accepted in the civilized world, a Muslim has to reject Mohammed as a life example--all his sayings and doings. Obviously, that includes much (if not most) of the Koran, the sharia, and the doctrine of jihad against non-Muslims.

Pythagoras wrote:

"We're not even sure that Islam IS a religion. It may well be a political ideology dressed up to resemble a religion."

I myself believe the latter is true.

But our current political leaders say Islam is a religion, and it will be impossible to get them to "unsay" it. So, as a practical defensive strategy we should assert--as official policy--that Mohammedanism (all the violent stuff, especially but not exclusively) is the "political part of Islam."

Said another way, all the doctrine that Mohammed added to Islam was political and we reject it because 1) it is not really religious and deserves no protection under our laws or automatic divine respect from our citizenry, and 2) it absolutely conflicts with our most cherished legal traditions.

Those who say otherwise, that Mohammedanism is religious, are the self-declared jihadists who must be excluded, monitored, and, where necessary, fought.

If we do not make such a distinction, our Constitution will prevent us from interfering with the Islamic "religion." -- we are then stuck in political paralysis. The Mohammedan spider has paralyzed its prey prior to sucking out all its life juices.

I think that separating Mohammedism from Islam would be the basis of a clear and actionable strategy to win. That strategy, to be workable, has to be simple to understand, from the highest ranking general and diplomat to the lowest ranking foot soldier. I think this scheme is. At the same time, the tactical details can be as complex and nuanced as each situation requires.

Sorry to be so wordy. Limes summarized things for me pretty well. Thanks, Limes.

Stendec: What you do not seem to realize is that Islam itself IS killing as much as it is totalitarianism. Killing is the nucleus of Islamic doctrine.

Although Islam predates Muhammed (a mosque unearthed in Israel during the 1950s proves this), it is not possible to know precisely which parts of Islamic dogma predate Muhammed.
Since Islam likely originated in Babylon, as human sacrifice it is EXTREMELY UNLKELY THAT KILLING CAN BE EXCISED FROM ISLAM! Most likely the killing is the basis of Islam, rather like what a sacrament is to Christians.

Killing is seen by Muslims as business as usual for their 'religion.' Killing is as integrated into political and religious aspects of Islamia in much the way that the Aztecs and Mayans integrated killing into their civilization. The Spaniards were right to get rid of these 'civilizations', because you cannot just take part of a society like these and discard the remainder. You are forced to eliminate the entire thing and start all over.

Forget it. As long as Islam exists, it will continue to kill people en masse. Human life means NOTHING in Islam. This would appear to be the legacy bequeathed to mankind by the Mesopotamian world.

Regarding Islam, we must get rid of the whole thing ('religion' or whatever you want to call it)--lock, stock, and barrel. Or it will get rid of us.

Ronin wrote: "...no practicing muslim cares what a non pious muslim or if you prefer “moderate” has to say. There is no single moderate voice anywhere in islam with the power to makes changes, or that has an audience. "

I understand all that. The practical question is how we are going to defend ourselves? Specifically, how will we 1) write laws to protect our nation at home, and 2) how will we mount an ideological offensive abroad?

It should be possible to write laws against "Mohammedanism" and restricting Mohammedan immigration. But we cannot write laws against the "religion Islam" and restricting Islamic immigration--not without a consitutional amendment (it would take 20 years to achieve this result, even if we could get enough politicians and the citizenry at large to support such a major change and to agree on effective verbiage). Paralysis.

Our counter-dawa campaign (do we have one?) cannot work if we permit Mohammedan concepts to remain ideologically undamaged, even in some attempted allegorical interpretation. The world needs to be informed that we will not tolerate Mohammedanism--period. The Muslims can either adapt, or have nothing to do with us. Their choice. In the meantime, they will have to listen our propaganda whenever they turn on their radios and TV sets. If we were to try the same thing to ideologically damage "Islam," without distinction, we would get nowhere. And nobody in the west would support such a frontal attack anyway--once again, we would be attacking a "religion." Paralysis.

Stendec, may last thought for tonight. I would never say not to test your theory but in doing so first try it at a taxi stand in the US. You may survive the beating as security should be nearby. Do not try it in a muslim land, you can not insult, discredit or even hint mohammad had any faults not even seemingly insignificant ones. The police would probably respond and help the crowd rip you apart.

Your plan makes sense from a western perspective but they are not, reasonable nor western. Remember they want Robert’s head and I have never seen or heard him say anything in anger or which he could not point out in their own historically excepted religious references. Bottom line is unless you are a muslim, do not discuss mohammad with one. Exceptions are made for non practicing muslims and while armed. Also, keep in mind the biggest killers of muslims worldwide are other muslims. That should clue you in they do not tend to talk for long. If you want to try your theory I suggest a website, allow emails and see what type of responses your receive and how quickly.

I have met many types of muslims and although some were friendly I wouldn’t turn my back nor discuss religion with them unless I had known them a very long time. There is a limit to my bravery, at some point self preservation has to take over.

Again, do try it just be careful and go slowly.

Pagan, Momma says you gotta be careful of your friends and allies, or don't complain when you get caught up in the shindig!

Whoever said the pagan gods came out of fertile heads, there's a thunderbolt comin' your way.

Stendec, premise 1 is flawed. Freedom of religion ought to apply only to those who grant that freedom to others!

Hence, a thorough vaccuuming of the attic is now due for the era of body parts. All self-respecting societies have to reinvent their basic premise if they want to survive holy jihad!

Pagan, are we involved yet in the policy making? Take a look at our allies. We are all groveling before the RoP anyway! At least, the governments and the policy makers are. If Momahood (i hope this is not a copyright term) had discovered oil in 7 BCE, we'd all be slaves in eternal paradise just now!

Opps my fingers are faster than my brain.

--Thanks Ronin, I didn't quite know before now how to describe my painful delivery.

Stendec: What you do not seem to realize is that Islam itself IS killing as much as it is totalitarianism. Killing is the nucleus of Islamic doctrine.

Eureka! Eusaid it, Maan. Allah lowes da killings. Its a verk of aart. Seen any videos of late? Its slitting throats actually, like sacrificial goats. Do they eat them brains or wot? Gawd in Arabia is Grreat! Alla-hu-Akabarrr!!!

Counter dawa Campaign? Brring on more toons, puleehz.

Islam is not just about politics. The Mullahs and the ladens and the omars keep the flooze. They're rolling in it. Zakat, earthquake aid, Slamming charities, dawa, you name it.

Chengiz Kahn the Buddist rode out of Magnolia to capture loot, burning down 40 million Muslims in Damascus. Damascus never recovered from it. Kahn just razed it down. He hated the Mozzies. Then he proceed to Makkah. Lo and Behold! He had surgery performed on himself, became a Mozzie, convinced that this was the best way of upward mobility, and took a bash at the Bamian Buddas on his way back home, the first one to try it. 'Ghanistan was all Buddist-Hindu until then. That is when his lieutenants began the hoary practice of slitting Hindu throats and making big Magnolian Pyramids of skulls.

Chengiz Kahn deserves the next Peace Nobel. Just as well Gandhi was nominated 5 times but never won it! Should have been a Mozzie!

Pythagoras,

"Regarding Islam, we must get rid of the whole thing ('religion' or whatever you want to call it)--lock, stock, and barrel. Or it will get rid of us."

I agree. But, short of killing (or personally threatening to kill) every Muslim on the planet, how would you accomplish this result?

The approach I am suggesting is--through continuous positive propaganda--to change Islam, over time, into something else, something consistent with some of their current beliefs and dawa, and based on stories that they are all familiar with.

"...it is not possible to know precisely which parts of Islamic dogma predate Muhammed."

I am not suggesting we try to figure this out line by line. Rather, we should declare our position that the Koran is a false Mohammedan corruption of the New Testament. So the New Testament is really "the Muslim Koran." They should throw out the Koran!

In other words, turn around the story that Muslims preach today--the one that Mohammed supposedly produced the final divine revelation to "perfect" the corrupted teachings of the earlier prophets. The "excellent, if not perfect" revelations in the New Testament, were hopelessly corrupted by Mohammed! You were fooled! Come back to the true Islam!

I believe that the Muslim psychology is susceptible to such propaganda. That susceptibility is why the Muslim world strives to shut out the rest of the world. That is why they believe all kinds of conspiracy theories about the Jews dominating the world, and the Great Satan, etc. So let's work on them with a consistent story that is better than the one they are getting from their imams.

On the "killing" theme, yes it is central to everything the Muslims do. We want them to reject all the killing. So, in our positive propaganda, emphasize that the killing rules were put there by Mohammed only for Mohammed's sake. Whether 100% of it was put there by Mohammed does not matter--we can say it was, for all practical purposes--certainly no killing stuff was put there by Jesus, for instance.

Of course, I don't figure this effort would work overnight. It might take centuries. But we need to have a strategy of continuous counter-dawa that confronts the violence of Islam, without explicitly declaring war on Islam. The violence of Islam is Mohammedanism--that would be our story. And we reject Mohammedanism.

Stendec/

"And nobody in the west would support such a frontal attack anyway--once again, we would be attacking a "religion." "

That, surely, is the point. First we have to persuade people that we are not facing a religion but a set of irrational psuedo-religious beliefs and constructs which bear no relationship to the concepts of religion as our enlightened western societies envisage them. We have to make it plain to as many people as we can that islam is not a religion, that is a belief system about human governance that is inimicable to the western experience of society and humanity; further, that islam itself exists in defiance of all that we have learned about the human condition. The western mistake has been to let islam define itself, in our societies, as a religion, when such a definition is manifestly absurd and untenable. It is a supremacist, fascist political belief system which has very little, or no, spiritual content - as we understand those words.

Having once allowed islam to define itself in such a way then islam's use of our existing laws about religion, and its support for the promulgation of new and ridiculous laws about religion (especially in my country - the UK), which make a mockery of all that the western enlightenment stands for today, is inevitable, and tragic, in its long term, potential, consequences.

For too long we have allowed islam to define itself. No longer, please. Our definitions are better and more sure. Let's use them.

Dominic.

Boy, am I late - missed out on the troll action. Incidentally, people did a good job ignoring Qasim in the other thread - what made them notice this one?

I sometimes wish that the US named its warships the way the British do. How about naming the next boomer sub USS Crusader?
Posted by: Pelayo

One of the Carlyle Group companies - United Defense (?) - had a missile system project of $30b called the Crusader. It was one of the projects that got canned during the 'transformation' of the Pentagon before 9/11 - a decision that was thought to be behind Congressman JC Watt's decision to retire. In Farhenheit 9/11, when Mike al-Moore claimed that the Bush admin was joined at the hip to the Carlyle Group and United Defense, the response that the United Defense spokesperson provided was that that was something the company wished was true, since it would have helped them realize their $30b gamble.

I have a different suggestion. Why not name military hardware after Mohammedan honchos, like Mohammed, Ali, Abu-Baqr, Sahih Buqhari, Sahih Muslim, Umar, Uthman, Imam Hussein, Saladin,... - hardware meant to be used in future military conflicts against countries like Iran. That way, if peaceniks try to get such projects canned, just arouse Mohammedan rage by posing the question, "What - you want to kill Mohammed,Ali,Imam Hussein, et al? Then just watch Muslims vs. the PC DailyKos/MoveOn/Berkeley crowd wage pitch battles.

A sight to behold...

Ronin, Pythagoras, Limes, and others:

Thanks for the comments regarding my proposal above, concerning Mohammedanism versus Islam.

Certainly, it is up to the Muslims to reform themselves, if they can. We can only give them a push here and there. In the meantime, we need to think of practical ways to defend ourselves.

Since the best defense is a good offense, we somehow have to attack the underlying ideology. At the moment, we do not even have a practical vocabulary to do that.

It seems to me this deficit in language hampers our ability to construct defensive legal codes, to fight back in the media war, or to craft effective foreign policy.

It is in the spirit of correcting that deficit in some small way, by opening up defensive possibilities otherwise denied, that I offered up a single suggestion. It seems we have a long way to go on the home front. So, let's press on.

Dominic,

I'm with you. A belief system that has rules, in its holy book, for dividing up the loot from conquered infidels fails the "religion test" as far as I am concerned--not that that is the only reason.

Stendec your post has certainly great points for the "moderate muslim",for one that has been born in a western country. unfortunately islam is not for the rational logical mind and muslim born and bred in this ideology explode in rage and violence with any hint of remark on mohummad that is not of praise and peace and nice things on his head. l think if we first educate the non muslim, we will have a united front, ps all the bush bashing does not work.
with a united front islam will be stopped ,destroyed sooner with less blooshed.
just yesterday l got a ride to work as my van was in for repairs, the driver had put on the local cdn talkshow, the liberal cow who does the show asusuall] was defending the burqa, blah blah.. so it gave me a lead into talking points about what the koran really says, about the haddith, suras, and how its a muslims duty to push for sharia law, and what sharia law really means.. etc. you can read this guy's mind really get disgusted at how muslims will not try to assimilate into Cdn society, and how he will look into it with more of an educated knowlege. and l gave out this blog..
so its one infidel at a time,andsoon it will be rush of infidels arming themselves with knowledgw on how to defeat this blight on humanity.

It is important to understand that we have SOME POWER here. We must BOYCOTT all Muslim stores and businesses. Flea market stalls, and all products that come from Muslim countries. We must buy gas at stations that get their oil from Canada or the United states and only buy goods or services from non Islamic sources. The Power is in our Money.
Since we can not get the stupid government to get rid of these people we must start a revolt. The other thing we need to do is make citizen arrests for Muslim hate crimes and abuse. Report every move they make. Try to get recording devices into their meeting places and prayer rooms have it translated and get them charged with hate crimes. Every time you see a women in a Burga complain to the store that you don’t feel safe and them tell them if they continue to allow abuse of this kind and lack of security for your family that you won’t shop there. Don’t get into their cabs or shop in any store where they are employed. If they try to bring their pamphlets to your school report them for trying to influence your children! Send a letter or fax that states you want to have the right to do that too AND DO IT !! Also if their is a women wearing a full Burga in your area start shopping in a ski mask and let them arrest you and tell them, if they can do it so can we. We have the right to fight this in our own way. Send a link to this video to every minister you know, to the pope, and to any politician that you know and ask him what he is going to do to stop this type of violence from being on the internet. Call the RCMP the FBI and let them know that these people should be charged with hate crimes and also with inciting a riot and with trying to induce people to kill people. TAKE ACTION and TELL ALL YOU FAMILY and YOUR CLOSE FRIENDS start talking about this. We all need to work together to rid ourselves of this horrific ideology.
Maggie

Some comments for Nariz;

"And you are typical of those who make conservatives look like irrational idiots....
I don't know of any right winger who has watched any Michael Moore Video, yet they still try to ridicule and defame them."

I think it is funny that you automatically coined me as a right winger, the only time I was a full on right wing was when I played in my squirt hockey league. But I understand the "intellectually supreme" left mindset, which is to call anybody with a conservative viewpoint an idiot. The only M.Moore movie I liked was Roger & Me.
I only responded to Sayids comments, after all it was my man sayid that responded irrationally read.
"Wow...so many of you folks sound about as intolerant and ignorant as radical islamists and it is only a matter of time that some of you will probably blow up a mosque or two in the USA...i think you should check your own hatred..."

Posted by: sayid

ZenaWarriorPrincess (aka Lulu?),

Yes, I agree that unvarnished education about the doctrines of Islam is critical. That project is what JW/DW is dedicated to (thank you, Robert), and we should help spread the word, as you and I both try to do in everyday contacts.

Basically, what I have been looking for is a term, a practical, technically correct, and meaningful "handle," to refer to "all the bad stuff" in Islam. Such a "handle" would have many practical uses in everyday conversations as you described, in legal codes (especially in immigration law), and in diplomacy.

It seems the consensus in this thread is that "the bad parts of Islam" is just Islam-- all or nothing. I understand that position completely and very much sympathize, but it is a spartan approach.

And I do not really care what the Muslims do in their perverted rage. We must tell them exactly what we don't like about their ideology, in terms they understand. Then, let them decide what they are going to do about it. They either have to reform their "religion," if they want any access to the west, or else go away to stew in their own juices.

The trouble is, we are verbally hamstrung in this communication process, because the only word we are permitted to use when framing these issues is the word "Islam." That happens to be the same word we are NOT allowed to use. For us, it is verbal checkmate.

Robert,

I really get a lot of useful information from your site; but can't you do something about the idiotic posters who label all Muslims as "rotten" and give this cause a black eye by calling for genocide? Do us all a favor and excise their nonsense from the site.

If all Muslims are "rotten" as one poster stated, is the poster therefore arguing that Christians are also "evil" because Christians (and others) have produced what he calls "rotten fruit"?

Last weekend my wife and I went down to Palm Springs and stopped by a Starbucks. A group near us had two people loudly complaining about "Jews" and how they were "doomed to hell for not accepting our Lord." My wife is Jewish and Israeli and I gritted my teeth to keep from responding angrily to these morons. I can assure you that this is NOT the first time we have had these encounters. (Alas, they are rather common.)Am I to conclude that all Christians are bigots just because I've met many who are? After all, there ARE verses in the Gospels that justify anti-Semitism.

People, think about what you say. Stop trying to prove your point that Islam is bad by calling for mass murder, or by stating that "all" Muslims are bad.

I don't know of any right winger who has watched any Michael Moore Video, yet they still try to ridicule and defame them.".......

Well, I don’t want to miss my chance.

As regards bowling for Columbine, if you had seen that show, you would have a different opinion.. what he says is that there are as many guns in Canada as there are in the U.S., per capita, but Canada doesn't have our problem with gun violence, because Canadian news doesn't glorify violence.. ~ Nariz

1997 data
11 million guns in Canada, Population 30 million = 36.7%
230 million guns in America, Population 270 million = 85.1%

See how easy that was, he pleads to be ridiculed and defamed.

desertdawg29palms

A man with a jewish wife should not spend a lot of energy defending islam or the people who think the tenets of islam make sense (that would be muslims). Having the opinion that some group or another are going to hell is a very subjective and actually, very harmless idea. Killing people because they are not muslim and referring to the koran for justification is a little more serious....don't you think?

ps Thanks for your service!

You are confused if you think that condemning calls for genocide and blood-guilt is the same as defending Islam.

As far as the "harmlessness" of the idea of apportioning hell to non-christians is concerned:
THE ROAD TO AUSCHWITZ WAS PAVED WITH SUCH BELIEFS.

Think about it, and stop defending genocidal morons.

Thank you desertdawh29palms for that observation...I just joined this site but think i will leave because these people are actually frightening me. I dont know what to make of this site...maybe we should start a Jihad Watch Watch...

THE ROAD TO AUSCHWITZ WAS PAVED WITH SUCH BELIEFS.
Posted by: desertdawg29palms at October 25, 2006 12:31 PM

Desert: I do not advocate mass destruction of any group simply be virtue of their affiliation nor do I believe 98% of the rational posters on JW would either. However, the Nazis were in no way, shape or form using Christianity to justify THE ‘ROAD TO AUSCHWITZ‘ I think you might find it harder to make such a distinction with the so called ‘radical’ or ‘fundamentalist’ Jihadist’s who seem to have such an affinity for chopping off the heads of those who do not subscribe Islam.

“maybe we should start a Jihad Watch Watch...”
Posted by: sikhy at October 25, 2006 12:37 PM

And ‘sikhy’: before you make rash judgments about this site, I think is would be an excellent idea for the both of you to first watch the video that began this thread.

kung fu fighter

I read what you wrote above and am giving it some serious thought. I am indeed a German living in America. All I miss from "back home" is the flavorful food .. the fresh-brewed chemical-free unpasteurized beer.. the French, Spanish and Italian cuisine I've enjoyed on my many travels..

But when I GO there now.. I see burkabots on every street corner.. my own fam husing me when I say something like WHAT IS THIS??! Like they're afraid someone might hear me speak.. Almost like this what it was like during Nazi-times.. husshh.. DON't speak about this or that.. you'll lose your job.. and worse will happen to you.. DON'T THINK FOR YOURSELF!!

We must speak to our own to get them to THINK!! To let them know.. if they EVER had any simillar misgivings about this enemy presence in our lands.. THEY ARE NOT ALONE!

I've heard similar discontent as I feel from Spaniards and from Poles. The latter don't have the problem at home as much as we do, but they are aware of it when they go to Wester Europe.

So I ask you, kung fu fighter.. how do I stay on message with those who are in need of saving themselves and their lands..?

I am mistrustful, as you well know!

Greetings from Baden-Württemberg!
Kellann
Posted by: americaningermany

Greetings from New York, American in Germany.

I won't give my real name on here and I suggest neother do you.. FHM.. Feind hört mit = Loose lips.

Here's a local German organization that is NOT right wing or fascist but one that simply INSISTS on Cologne maintaining its character. They are being tarred with the Right-wing brush, of course. They are doing things like collecting signatures against a GIANT MOSK being built right in Cologne.. Can you imagine the tears I'd cry seeing those dreadful minarets next to our BELOVED DOM [kathedral]!! They have collected 15000 signatures so far...

I can't find an English entry to the site so I hope you know enough German. I am in touch with them and I will request they have their site available in English and French at the very least. Remember, this is NOT a fight that is fought within only one nation. WE are ALL TOGETHER in this - or we can forget it! The enmy knows no bounds nor borders. that foes for the Fifth column as well.. the libs.. the sozis.. the Greens.. The only Greens I like a collared.. er I meant Collard!

Apologies to the people who don't speak German here - which i am sure is most. I just wanted to let American know so she can have a look.

She seems to know the language. I do feel they need to get with it and have English and french translations on there.

Apparently the established parties have put them on some kind of an "unconstitutional" wtachlist and the German Secret Service is watching them instead of using its resources on the ENEMY!! Things are TWISTED in GERMANY indeed!

Having them under this official surveillance is bound to have a chilling effect on things like collecting signatures - which have to be notarized and verified - against the mosk-building.

I have not seen anything anti-Semitic in the Pro-Köln website but I will keep looking for stuff like that. But I think all the established parties in Germany [maybe not the CDU] now cater to anti-Isreal sentiments.. which means anti-Semitic in a coded way in my opinon.

http://www.pro-koeln-online.de/

There is also a nation-wide one that bears following, a.i.g.:

germaninamerica,

"I read what you wrote above and am giving it some serious thought..... So I ask you, kung fu fighter.. how do I stay on message with those who are in need of saving themselves and their lands..?"

You know, your counterpart "americaningermany" asked me the similar question before, to which I gave her an enlightening answer which she agreed :

In my humble opinions, the ultimate solution to today's conflicts between Arabic Islam and Western Christianity (or Infidels) lies in Eastern Buddhism, which is the only religion that allows the practitioner to have a completely opened mind to SEE and END the sufferings of both your Infidel self and your Muslim enemy on an equal standing. Currently both Muslims and Infidels knock themselves up in endless arguments with their own critical minds and prejudice, which are "distractions" they don't seem to let go, like we see the posters here. They miserably get "hooked" deeper and deeper in some form of "verbal seduction" until they are completely blinded from reality in which they live. They need meditation or some form of solitude to wake up their minds from detrimental "distractions." Otherwise, Islamic terrorism will go on and Infidels will fight back in a vicious attack/revenge cycle which brings more suffering and anger to both sides.

Let me tell you from a Buddhist point of view that in the West we have been struggling for many years with the problems of evil. How is it possible that evil should be there? It seems that it is difficult for the Western mind to understand. But in the light of non-duality, there is no problem : As soon as the idea of good is there, the idea of evil is there. When you perceive reality in this way, you will not discriminate against garbage for the sake of a rose. You will cherish both. You need both right and left in order to have a branch. Do not take sides. If you take sides, you are trying to eliminate half of reality, which is impossible.

For many years during the cold war, America tried to describe Russia as the evil empire as President Reagan said. Some Americans even had the illusion that they could survive alone, without the other half. But that was the same as believing that the right side could exist without the left side. And this very same feeling existed in Russia. The American imperialists, it was said, were on the bad side and had to be eliminated for the possibility of happiness in the world. But that is the dualistic way of looking at things.

If we looked at America very deeply, we saw Russia. And if we looked deeply at Russia, we saw America. If we look deeply at the rose, we saw garbage. If we looked deeply at garbage, we saw the rose. In this international situation, each side was pretending to be the rose, and calling the other side garbage. The history now repeats itself in the current international situation between Muslims and Infidels.

So the idea is clear : THIS IS BECAUSE THAT IS. You have to work for the survival of the other side if you want to survive yourself. We are not separate. We are inextricably inter-related. The bottom line is that we have an inter-relationship with our enemy, whether you like it or not. Today America and Russia are friends, a fact which was so hard to believe 20 years ago.

BTW, I hope you can tone down your anger, and begin to come to your sense and THINK FOR YOURSELF. You know your Muslim enemy very well. And if you know yourself too, you'll certainly defeat them.

Thank you desertdawh29palms for that observation...I just joined this site but think i will leave because these people are actually frightening me. I dont know what to make of this site...maybe we should start a Jihad Watch Watch...
Posted by: sikhy

They already have one. LOL
I am frightened by the people who fly planes into buildings and who cut your head off because you happed to believe in a different God than they do.. or maybe none at all.. Trivial things in my mind.. but things that compel this enemy to mass murder.

That said: There is NO ROOM in any way for anti-Semitism.

Anti-Semitism is illogical. Islamophobia is logical.

TAKE ACTION and TELL ALL YOU FAMILY and YOUR CLOSE FRIENDS start talking about this. We all need to work together to rid ourselves of this horrific ideology.
Maggie
Posted by: Silly

I am with you on that and I do watch out where I buy, what I buy and from whom I buy. I am making inroads with family and friends. Others have stopped speaking to me altogether.

I have to consider them lost.. or they were never realy friends. If they were they'd listen to my warnings. After all, I am concerned about them as much as for myself. I don't wish to go to my grave one day and having to think I was witness to our dosnfall to this inferior cult of death.

29 palms

I don't defend genocide or morons and I have not the time to give you a history lesson. Suffice it to say that Christians were not in charge of the nazi death camps. This blog is not about death...it's about living free. Get on board or you could move on to something more to your taste..your call.

kung fu fighter wrote:

...When you perceive reality in this way, you will not discriminate against garbage for the sake of a rose. You will cherish both. You need both right and left in order to have a branch. Do not take sides. If you take sides, you are trying to eliminate half of reality, which is impossible.

...If we looked at America very deeply, we saw Russia. And if we looked deeply at Russia, we saw America. If we look deeply at the rose, we saw garbage.
..............

Oh good God! This is idiocy. I will never "cherish" suicide bombers and people who behead journalists. I don't believe that the killers of 9/11 somehow just made a nice September morning prettier. The idea that if you look very deeply at a decent person, you will see reflected a murdering monster is grotesque.

If you don't stand up against evil you enable it to thrive. I intend to stand up. You can embrace evil if you want to. I never will.

kung fu fighter:

Those who forget the lessons of history...

You have forgotten the lessons of history vis-a-vis Buddhism in Mongolia, Afghanistan, Tibet, Nepal, Pakistan and India under the jihadi (and communist as of now. Qi Gong is banned and subject to genocide in China) advance 7th century onwards. You have forgotten the lessons of the Bamiyan Buddhas and the great art and culture of Gandhara (now the rubble of Kandahar). You have forgotten the lessons of Nalanda and Takshashila, the great centres of Buddhist learning in ancient India. You got too far away from your Vedic roots over the years, unlike Buddha and the great martial arts gurus who migrated to China and then Japan!

The jihadi mindfuck emanating from the land of the 'Pure' made you believe in the collossal lie that it was Hindus who wiped out Buddhism in India -- through whose agency? -- the great theologian and ascetic guru of Monotheism, Adi Sankara!!! And his sole weapon was peaceful debate. But at least, he did ensure in the 12th century CE that Hinduism survived the worst of jihad in India. Even until then, for 5 centuries, the marauding hordes had not managed to reach India in earnest, being repelled from its boundaries. For Five Centuries!!! But Buddhism had no defence whatsoever, as universities, libraries and monasteries were razed and torched with impunity. The Baltis of north Pakistan are converted Tibetan Buddhists!

The great Buddhist sculptures had their arms, noses and even heads chopped off by the idol breakers, and the Marxist historians of India continue to lay this crime at the door of the Hindus--people who did not run away, but rebuilt each temple after each wave of looting, arson and pillage.

As a Buddhist, you can hope to eradicate human suffering, not as coward who refuses to face the naked truth of jihad. What are your martial arts for, my friend -- certainly not the tool of cowardice in the face of dire provocation? Where will you run to this time?

gravenimage, pagandkapitat, americaningermany,

I am very impressed by your informative posts which embody the great spirit of an anti-Islam fighter. However, I've just presented my egoless view of the current conflicts between infidels and Muslims, before I am forced to exercise my kung fu which should only be used as a last resort. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of kung fu.

Remember Bruce Lee in his kung fu movies? He didn't get provoked to fight at the very first sight of aggression from the enemy. He looked as if it was no big deal. Sometimes he even pretended to be a coward so as to encourage the enemy to be reckless. In his deliberations, he carefully considered both favorable and unfavorable factors. He was wise and flexible. He bore in mind all possibilities. Unless his judgment was not confused, how would he have been able to respond to circumstances without coming his wits' end? When he fought, he fought like a lion. The enemy was in shock and awe. Within a few punches and kicks, the enemy was dead! Bruce Lee is someone, the like of whom I aspire to become an anti-Islam fighter.

Americaningermany, please focus your anti-Islam anger at Naseem, not me. I am on your infidel side and my positive personal feelings of you haven't changed.

Kung Fu Quixote:

You see 9/11, 7/7, 7/11 as acts of 'Verbal Seduction'?

Does Islam grant the 'other side' the option of staying alive?

Beware. When verbal sophistry enters a debate, kung fu flows out the window. Better to practice noble silence at times when you are sure you are not a coward. Less words, more action.

But when you use words, there should be illumination and not perpetuation of the mindfuck.

Meditation is an act of silent knowing. It clears obfuscations. If you are on the side of the infidels, as we all are, duty lies in fighting the untruth, sadism and terror of gory Islamic jihad, which, it is true, seems to be Islam itself!

Bismopal,

Save your history lessons; I do not need them.

My remark about "genocidal morons" applies only when the purse fits, and was directed at those who can not tell the difference between individual Muslims and jihadi fanatics. Anyone calling for the murder of individual Muslims BECAUSE they are Muslims IS a genocidal moron. If you are not such a person then the term does not apply to you and your comments to me are unnecessary.

You claimed that I stated the nazi death camps were run by Christians. I did NOT make that remark. I said THE ROAD TO AUSCHWITZ WAS PAVED WITH SUCH BELIEFS (referring to notions of religious superiority to which Europeans had been indoctrinated against Jews and which later morphed into racial anti-Semitism) and I was answering a Christian poster who stated "A belief that a person of another religion is going to hell will not cause anyone to kill another person." Wrong! History is filled with examples of such perverse notions morphing into murderous actions. THE MIND SET IT CREATES, THAT OF "US VERSUS THEM, BELIEVERS AGAINST INFIDELS" CREATES SUFFERING AND HATE. Understand?

I suggest posters stop pissing on one another, and that they stop engaging in the moral cowardice that hides its head against hysterical calls for murder and mayhem against others. Anyone advocating such nonsense is as bad as al quaeda and the other Islamo-nazi groups.

kung fu fighter:

Russia and America are both countries and inhabited by human beings who do the same things every day.

All similarities STOP THERE.

What you did not see was that the United States was fighting theCold War to save the world FROM state-imposed ideology while Russia was fighting to IMPOSE its STATE ideology on the world.

It is safe to say you have never been to the United States. If you had been, you would know Russia does not exist within America.

If you had, you would know that we are not an ideological society and hold that human life is more important than ideologies--something that Russia today (under Vladimir Putin) still has not learned.

Unless you can see that, you are NOT on "our side" despite your claims to the contrary.

BTW-I have Buddhist friends in the United States, so you're not going to BS mw on this. Russia wouldn't even have permitted the practice of Buddhism twenty years ago--you DID know didn't you that Communism outlaws ALL RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS?????

pagandkapitat,

Re : Your post above at October 26, 2006 11:58 AM

Whoever you are, if you look for a fight with a kung fu fighter, you will be disappointed. Because I only write in the 12th grade English, and come here to learn about Islamic Jihad, the truth of which can be argued.

However, I do see we have some similarity in our Zen-like expressions and terms. The most distinguished one is : my "verbal seduction" vs. your "mindfuck."

After all, we are both on the same infidel side.

desertdawg29palms,

Re : Your post above at October 26, 2006 02:34 PM

Thank you for your uncommon perspective. I think you are on neither the infidel side, nor the Muslim side, but the "right" side. People on the right side of the stock market always make money!

:-)

pythagoras, the philosopher :

Re : Your post above at October 26, 2006 02:46 PM

If you are so "analytical," there is no way I can argue with you. I just hope that you still can see the forest through the trees. Many stock market traders/investors fail to do so, and they lose money as a result.

29palms

You are soo interesting...please yawn..go on with your story.

Yet another reason for not entering blogs: Some make their maladies so apparent that observers do not need to comment. But I will comment anyway.

Kung Fu Fighter........talk is cheap. I'm not going to talk about what I do for a living, but I can assure you making money on the stock market isn't what I do. Until you carry an M16 or volunteer a summer in Israel, I suggest you follow a train of thought to its conclusion before you shoot your mouth off. Put your money where your mouth is: spend a summer on Perris Island and see.

As far as you go, Bismopal, you're another reason for never entering blogs. Being overly concerned about what despicable fools like you think isn't high on my list. It is apparent that you are here only to deliberately twist what others say and to work out, in a twisted way, some deeply buried neurosis.

This will be my final posting on this blog for the reason that I am pretty much tired of looking at what fucktards like the two above have to say, or reacting to how they twist what I post. Who needs the aggravation?

Mr. Spencer: I have really enjoyed your postings and will continue to buy and read your books. Thank you.

Kung Fu: You are too much on dangerous ground for your own good. What's it that you're smoking in your pipe? Anyway, you'd be bad enough confused even without a pipe! You are sorely in need of a one-way ticket to N. Waziristan to go argue jihad with the Taliban!