Anti-dhimmitude in Britain, which will surely be met with the usual outcry, and accusations of racism and Islamophobia. From Leeds Today: "Extremists must respect all faiths"
Extremist Muslims must respect other people's religions and follow British law, a senior Conservative said.
David Davis, Shadow Home Secretary, said that a small minority of Muslims living in this country do not share traditional British values of mutual respect.
And he said that Sharia law is "not an option" for the UK, rejecting calls made by some extremists for the strict Islamic code, which includes death by stoning for adultary [sic] and death by burning for homosexuality, to be used in the UK.
Mr Davis spoke out at the Conservative Party conference in Bournemouth where he said the West Yorkshire suicide bombers who carried out the terrorist attacks in London, did not see themselves first as British.
He said: "The 7th July bombers were raised and educated in Britain.
Opportunities
"This country gave them the opportunities and prosperity they would not have enjoyed elsewhere.
"And yet they slaughtered 52 innocent people.
"They saw themselves as Muslims only; not as British Muslims.
"Sadly a small minority of Muslims share that view."
But how small? No one making this assertion is ever able to be specific.
He said the country needs to make sure that this minority is reconciled with the rest of the country
"The reconciliation I am talking about is more than just tolerance," he said. "It means drawing on the long British tradition of mutual respect.
"I respect your religion, you respect my religion and we both respect our laws. Sharia law is not an option in Britain.
"Freedom of religion is a fundamental right in a modern western democracy. But it must be practised in a way that respects the same rights of others. Freedom of speech is an ancient right in this country but it does not mean tolerating imams coming to this country to preach hatred of this country."
Sharia belongs in two places-the Third World Muslim nations and the trash can.
Islamophobia=national defense.
No Compulsion in Religion
Allah said,
﴿لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّينِ﴾
(There is no compulsion in religion), meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear. Therefore, there is no need to force anyone to embrace Islam. Rather, whoever Allah directs to Islam, opens his heart for it and enlightens his mind, will embrace Islam with certainty. Whoever Allah blinds his heart and seals his hearing and sight, then he will not benefit from being forced to embrace Islam.''
It was reported that the Ansar were the reason behind revealing this Ayah, although its indication is general in meaning. Ibn Jarir recorded that Ibn `Abbas said ﴿that before Islam﴾, "When (an Ansar) woman would not bear children who would live, she would vow that if she gives birth to a child who remains alive, she would raise him as a Jew. When Banu An-Nadir (the Jewish tribe) were evacuated ﴿from Al-Madinah﴾, some of the children of the Ansar were being raised among them, and the Ansar said, `We will not abandon our children.' Allah revealed,
﴿لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ﴾
(There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.)''
Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i also recorded this Hadith. As for the Hadith that Imam Ahmad recorded, in which Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said to a man,
«أَسْلِم»
قَالَ: إِنِّي أَجِدُنِي كَارِهًا قَالَ:
«وَإِنْ كُنْتَ كَارِهًا»
("Embrace Islam.'' The man said, "I dislike it.'' The Prophet said, "Even if you dislike it.'')
First, this is an authentic Hadith, with only three narrators between Imam Ahmad and the Prophet . However, it is not relevant to the subject under discussion, for the Prophet did not force that man to become Muslim.
The Prophet merely invited this man to become Muslim, and he replied that he does not find himself eager to become Muslim.
The Prophet said to the man that even though he dislikes embracing Islam, he should still embrace it, `for Allah will grant you sincerity and true intent.'
Download
http://www.kafirnation.com/Kathir/ibnkathir.rar
Islam is the Religion That will dominate over all Other Religions
Allah said next,
﴿هُوَ الَّذِي أَرْسَلَ رَسُولَهُ بِالْهُدَى وَدِينِ الْحَقِّ﴾
(It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth.) `Guidance' refers to the true narrations, beneficial faith and true religion that the Messenger came with. `religion of truth' refers to the righteous, legal deeds that bring about benefit in this life and the Hereafter.
﴿لِيُظْهِرَهُ عَلَى الدِّينِ كُلِّهِ﴾
(to make it (Islam) superior over all religions) It is recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah said,
«إِنَّ اللهَ زَوَى لِي الْأَرْضَ مَشَارِقَهَا وَمَغَارِبَهَا، وَسَيَبْلُغُ مُلْكُ أُمَّتِي مَا زُوِيَ لِييِمنْهَا»
(Allah made the eastern and western parts of the earth draw near for me ﴿to see﴾, and the rule of my Ummah will extend as far as I saw.) Imam Ahmad recorded from Tamim Ad-Dari that he said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah saying,
«لَيَبْلُغَنَّ هَذَا الْأَمْرُ مَا بَلَغَ اللَّيْلُ وَالنَّهَارُ، وَلَا يَتْرُكُ اللهُ بَيْتَ مَدَرٍ وَلَا وَبَرٍ إِلَّا أَدْخَلَهُ هَذَا الدِّينَ، يُعِزُّ عَزِيزًا وَيُذِلُّ ذَلِيلًا، عِزًّا يُعِزُّ اللهُ بِهِ الْإِسْلَامَ وَذُلًّا يُذِلُّ اللهُ بِهِ الْكُفْر»
(This matter (Islam) will keep spreading as far as the night and day reach, until Allah will not leave a house made of mud or hair, but will make this religion enter it, while bringing might to a mighty person (a Muslim) and humiliation to a disgraced person (who rejects Islam). Might with which Allah elevates Islam (and its people) and disgrace with which Allah humiliates disbelief (and its people).) Tamim Ad-Dari ﴿who was a Christian before Islam﴾ used to say, "I have come to know the meaning of this Hadith in my own people. Those who became Muslims among them acquired goodness, honor and might. Disgrace, humiliation and Jizyah befell those who remained disbelievers.''
﴿يَـأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ إِنَّ كَثِيراً مِّنَ الاٌّحْبَارِ وَالرُّهْبَانِ لَيَأْكُلُونَ أَمْوَالَ النَّاسِ بِالْبَـطِلِ وَيَصُدُّونَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ يَكْنِزُونَ الذَّهَبَ وَالْفِضَّةَ وَلاَ يُنفِقُونَهَا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَبَشِّرْهُمْ بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ - يَوْمَ يُحْمَى عَلَيْهَا فِى نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ فَتُكْوَى بِهَا جِبَاهُهُمْ وَجُنوبُهُمْ وَظُهُورُهُمْ هَـذَا مَا كَنَزْتُمْ لأَنفُسِكُمْ فَذُوقُواْ مَا كُنتُمْ تَكْنِزُونَ ﴾
(34. O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the Ahbar (rabbis) and the Ruhban (monks) who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And those who hoard up gold and silver and spend them not in the way of Allah, announce unto them a painful torment.) (35. On the Day when that will be heated in the fire of Hell and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, (and it will be said unto them:) "This is the treasure which you hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard.'')
David Davis should have been Tory Leader - not Cameron. Davis has some common sense and back bone.
I fear Cameron in a cultural tory with not very strong beliefs about anything.
Anyway, welcomed comments to go hand in hand with Jack Straw's
islam is EVIL.
@ KAOSKTRL
take your izlamic mumbo jumbo and shove it up your arse where the sun never shines.
Verily allah is a rock god. Blind, deaf, dumb.
"The Prophet said to the man that even though he dislikes embracing Islam, he should still embrace it, `for Allah will grant you sincerity and true intent.'"
How is that consistent with "No Compulsion in Religion." ?
Anyway, I too cannot tell whether it is pro or anti-Islam. It sure doesn't make me feel all fuzzy and warm about Islam, and I can see that there lies a threat in the text. I guess that we just take statements like "Islam is the Religion That will dominate over all Other Religions" at face value, and we let it be known that we are not intimidated, and that we reject slavery, and we choose to be free, and we will always choose to be free.
How do you like that. No one can figure out whether KAOSKTRL is pro or anti-islam.
I'll help.
There's no compulsion in religion. allah-babba, the muzlim god, figured out whether you're good or evil even before he created you. and you can't change.
Helluva god, eh?
so if you're bad to the bone you won't appreciate the devil mohammad or his god allah and then you go to hell and burn.
makes a lot of sense?
great religion. join today!
I don't understand. What's the point of quoting the text of religious documents in the hope(?) of converting non-beleivers, when the non-believers have no belief in the document quoted?
It's like saying, "This book by Alan Smithee proves that the world is flat, and you should beleive it," without first showing why I should take anything Alan Smithee writes as true. It is illogical.
It reminds me of my college days, when Christian street preachers and Christian students would harangue each other on the quad about the "true meaning of Christ" while Hindu students strolled casually by, bemused by all the consternation caused by a book which held no power over them.
Forget quoting the Koran or the Hadiths or any other Muslim teachings to Christians or other non-beleivers. They hold zero power over us.
We will judge Islam by how its followers ACT, and, so far, we are unimpressed.
Finally some commonsense, enough of multicultural relativism. Sharia law is a disgusting and violence form of justice that should be banned in the West. There is no room for theocracy in Western civilization.
forget the koranic troll.
No Sharia Law in the UK.
There it is. It's a Rubicon, a bench mark for others and it is a political slogan. Because of Sharia's fundamentalism to living the Muslim pious life, a UK stand against even the recognition that Sharia laws could be implemented in part or in full, is one way to coalesce the voting population of an EU state around an issue that advances the anti-Jihad / anti-islamisation of Europe cause.
Ive been at this for more than 4 years,
My site is http://www.kafirnation.com
Im hosted on Ali Sina's server how runs http://www.faithfreedom.org/
I think if you are going to object to Islam you had better know what the scripture says about the fate of infidels and why its wrong ,so you are not a rank and file bigot.
If one wants sharia all they have to do is get on a plane and move to that paradise known as the Islamic Republic of Iran. The rest of us don't want it in the West and will not be on the plane with you. After all, it's not like there isn't any sharia at all in this world; you just need to move to it and leave the rest of us alone.
Every experience I have had with moslema and their ilk leads me to the conclusion: there may be soft approaches or hard ones, but they all want to convert you. Wear you down.
Actions speak louder than words. Look at the will of the ummmmmah, we see it in all the tragedies they have visited on westerners and western countries. From beheadings, rapes, and slavery to bombs on trains and planes crashed into buildings, what have these people done that merit intellectual response. They wax poetic about the Koran which appears to be nothing but rape, plunder forced conversions and slavery, i.e., the same thing they are doing today.
Listen to moslema clerics. Do you think they know the least bit of our scriptures? Further do you think they care? They use deceit and guile and try to infiltrate and insinuate themselves into western society and then subvert them.
No I say. Kick these people out. These are our lands. They do not belong here. Multiculturalism be damned! RAUSS!!!
It amazes me how the West keeps saying "it is only a small minority." BS. 70% say that they support the suicide bombers. 10% said that they would do it. They live in muslim only areas that they claimed. This area was not given over to them. They invaded it. They practice sharia whether anyone likes it or not. They want more and more consessions. They live off of the government. Have multiple wives and children. How do they afford this? Easy, the good people of the West pays for the welfare that they all live on.
One needs to remember that they practice NO birth control. They are simply going to out breed the rest of the population. Once they are a majority they can then put real political pressure on their host countries to become islamic. I, for one, will not convert or live as a dhimmi. No matter what the EU says, it is lost. They have a great foothold and will out vote you soon. I think by 2050. For muslims of today, that is two whole generations, the way they breed.
The US is next.
What KAOSKTRL has to say about knowing what the Islamic scriptures have to say is critically important. I have been able to convince, or at least introduce doubt into many "religion of peace" convinced minds, by referring not to the works of Muslims but rather the Islamic scriptures themselves, in their irrationality, anti-Semitism, immorality, evil and triumphalism. The very canonical texts of Islam should be the rop by which we hang Islam. There is plently in there that even many Muslims would be ashamed of.
"We will judge Islam by how its followers ACT, and, so far, we are unimpressed."
Funny, same could be said for christianity. We will judge Christianity by how it's followers ACT and, so far, we are unimpressed.
The difference is one is NOT allowed to judge. ONLY God has the right.
The Bible says "do not judge, lest ye be judged by the same staff".
First, follow the Bible, then come talk to me.
Why should I follow any book of faith, muslim woman?
I have science and logic on my side.
god = fairy tale.
"No I say. Kick these people out. These are our lands. They do not belong here. Multiculturalism be damned! RAUSS!!!"
Who does this land belong to? I thought it belonged to the native americans. By the way, what about the 1 million plus converts who are born and raised in America with generations of ancestory in America. Where do they go?
This world does not belong to anyone, but everyone. Sounds a little racist to me, like we whites belong here and not the blacks.
Mr. Davis to put it quiet bluntly is flying a political kite to see which way the political wind is blowing , and he is doing it for who, his political boss Cameron himself. Davis gets a good response and Cameron will be mouthing the same next week. They are mapping out the political terrain, another shadow something or other will be doing the same on another subject next week, They are trying work out a political agenda that will gain them the most votes i.e. win them the next election. For all those on this Blogg who do not understand politics. The first law of politics is to gain power, the second law is to maintain that power. Politicians usually have a very short shelf life. They usually have one shot at gaining power, if they fail then it is the dustbin of history and if they win it is very unusual that they retain power more than five or six years, and very few even to ten. The only two that I can think of who have maintained power in Britain for approximately ten years in the last hundred years was Atilla the Hen ( Margret Thatcher) and Tony Blair.
"Why should I follow any book of faith, muslim woman?
I have science and logic on my side.
god = fairy tale."
I'm a science buff, and it's common knowledge that the more they find, the more they can't explain. Recently, there's been a new move in the science circle, it's scientists that are religious and can actually explain science and religion together.
"Common knowledge"....what a vapid argument you have there. Post some 'common knowledge', a link perhaps? I also like the use of "As we all know..." and "I'm sure we can all agree.." when dancing on thin ice of religion.
If science can't currently answer a question we know it will shortly and it will have nothing to do with religion.
Life is becoming harder and harder on an almost noticeable daily basis for us non Muslims living in the UK.
Sadly we are being led by a government hell bent on destroying this nation (especially the nation of England)!
Life in the UK would be so much better if the cancer of Islam was not infecting it.
There are signs however that the native population are waking up and starting to smell the coffee.
The British National Party are increasingly seen as the only political party willing to stand up and be counted on the threat to us... the government failed earlier this year to prosecute its leader, Nick Griffin for telling the TRUTH about Islam... needless to say, rather than admitting defeat, the government are going for a retrial!! How stupid are the people who lead us?!?!?!
Still, so long as the likes of Anjem Choudhary and Abu Izzadeen and their ilk are around and free to spout their poison without fear of reprisal the closer are the people of this island to taking back their country.
RULE BRITANNIA, BRITANNIA RULES THE WAVES. BRITONS NEVER, NEVER, NEVER SHALL BE SLAVES (to Islam).
I'm a science buff, and it's common knowledge that the more they find, the more they can't explain.
What a load of crap Muslim women please give one example where mysticism supercedes knowledge gained through scientific investigation and research.
take your izlamic mumbo jumbo and shove it up your arse where the sun never shines.
Verily allah is a rock god. Blind, deaf, dumb.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at October 6, 2006 09:50
May-be it would help if more commentators where exposed to the Koranic Verses so as to get a better in-site as to what motivates the followers of the Religion of Peace.
Let the un-believers perish, they scorn the prophet, they want to molest your women. They care not about our stone abodes,
They must be repelled to their caves, on a track of blood. Back, yes, back.
Burn their homes, destroy their lives, puts to death their wives, crush the heads of their children so that their type for eternity perish
Wars now! Wars always! Wars against the living! Wars against the dead! Do as the prophet taught us: kill kill kill !!!!
Learn the koran
Thanx KAOSKTRL seems folk here dont really understand what they are up against
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2005/12/politically-incorrect-guide-to.html
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/03/politically-incorrect-guide-to-thank.html
European victims of Islam
Warning very graphic
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/03/politically-incorrect-guide-to-balkans.html
@ moslem woman
"By the way, what about the 1 million plus converts who are born and raised in America with generations of ancestory in America. Where do they go?"
That's easy. If they don't renounce the evil death cult of izlam, then they get sent to "Re-Education Centers" to get deprogrammed. If that doesn't work, send them to a muzlim penal colony.
Any questions?
"Funny, same could be said for christianity. We will judge Christianity by how it's followers ACT and, so far, we are unimpressed. "
I am sure there are 100% muslim countries that would welcome you in a heartbeat, why don't you move?
"Who does this land belong to?"
While USA and australia might be an exception, I can guarantee you that the whole EUROPE continent belongs to native European people.
"By the way, what about the 1 million plus converts who are born and raised in America with generations of ancestory in America. Where do they go?"
When they will be declared mentally brainwashed, we will think about it.
"This world does not belong to anyone, but everyone. "
Then I can call people in Israel and tell them to get back to GAZA and west bank?
"I'm a science buff, and it's common knowledge that the more they find, the more they can't explain. Recently, there's been a new move in the science circle, it's scientists that are religious and can actually explain science and religion together."
please muslim woman tell us about the great koranic theory that the earth is flat...
Our politicians and lawmakers have invited them in, gave them citizenship, allowed them to use OUR own laws against us, paid them to be here, and implemented strict PC laws so that you can't even identify them for who they really are!
Posted by: americaningermany at October 6, 2006 01:20 PM
... and more foolishly, this when no muslim country takes non-muslim citizens. Talk about racism. Should our politicians not use common sense and lay down the same and equal rules? But no.... our politicians areso corrupt for wealth (wahabbi wealth) and votes (muslim votes) that they will sell out a country, a generation or even a civilization in a moment, pretending to be 'unaware' of the intents, motives and goals of the enemy. Infact, pretend to be 'unaware' of an enemy, even praize the enemy (Izlum is a religion of peace').. even use government against it's own citizens (against Minutemen). And possibilities of betrayal are endless and make no mistake... politicians will sell-out anything for a few pesos or votess.
Thanks for raising a sbtle but a critical issue.
I'm a science buff, and it's common knowledge that the more they find, the more they can't explain. Recently, there's been a new move in the science circle, it's scientists that are religious and can actually explain science and religion together.
Posted by: muslim woman at October 6, 2006 02:55 PM
Actually, your 'new move' was observed by Albert Einstein:
'There is no necessary conflict between science and religion if the nature of religion is properly understood'.
More about it here: http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/irrec.html
Looks like you and your 'new move' have a lot of catching up to do, muslim science-buff!
I just love these two quotes from muslim woman:
“Funny, same could be said for Christianity. We will judge Christianity by how it's followers ACT and, so far, we are unimpressed.”
and
“Who does this land belong to? I thought it belonged to the native americans.”
My dear, how many Christians and Jews go into cafes and malls blow themselves up along with innocent muslim children? How much money poured out from predominately Christian countries to predominately muslim countries after the Tsunami of 2004 and the Pakistan earthquake? As I recall the wealthy Persian Gulf states really didn’t contribute all that much, and what was given sure didn’t go to a single Christian. Just remember that the tree is known by its fruit.
As for that Native American crap, muslims love to throw that one at us…but what they forget is that Turkey, Egypt, Syria, Persia, Central Asia, North Africa, etc. were non-muslim before good ‘ol bloody mo’s cult took over. Tell you what: If muslims give back all the formerly Christian, Animist, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Buddist, and Jewish territories that they committed genocide for and stole, us white folks will give everything back to the Native Americans. That means that muslims have to stop killing all those poor people in Darfur right now as well. Deal?
MM States, quoting me:
""We will judge Islam by how its followers ACT, and, so far, we are unimpressed."
Funny, same could be said for christianity. We will judge Christianity by how it's followers ACT and, so far, we are unimpressed.
The difference is one is NOT allowed to judge. ONLY God has the right.
The Bible says "do not judge, lest ye be judged by the same staff".
First, follow the Bible, then come talk to me.
Posted by: muslim woman""
There is a problem with your form MM: I ain't a Christian. I ain't a beleiver in any religion. I don't take any religious text for anything other than a philosophical treatise to read and consider as I would any other philosophical treatise and accept or reject the advice found in it on its own merits.
Moreover, I will judge the behavior of Muslims according to my personal standards and pronounce them to be barbaric whenever and however I feel as is my right as a thinking human being, no matter what the Bible or any other book says. And so far, their behavior as reported by this page is not just unimpressive, it is downright disgusting.
I look around the world and see violence in both word and action practiced by muslims who say that they are commanded to do this violence BASED ON THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THEIR RELIGION, ISLAM. I take them at their word that they understand the commands of their religion better than I, an atheist. If that ruffles your feathers, tough, talk to the perpetrators of the violence, not I.
I judge Christians by the EXACT same standards as I do the Muslims, and, surprise, I have yet to find any modern violent group of Christians who say they are commanded to do violence by their religion. Please, feel free to enlighten me.
Please, also, feel free to judge atheists by these same standards. You can even have you own webpage full of stories of rampaging, bombing, terrorist Secular Humanist, atheists. I probably would even read it.
KAOSTREL posted
"I think if you are going to object to Islam you had better know what the scripture says about the fate of infidels and why its wrong ,so you are not a rank and file bigot."
I appoligize to KASTREL for misunderstanding his intent, though my original posting still stands. Don't try to convert people to your religion using a text they do not believe in. It's silly.
I think KAOS is mostly right about having a familiarity with the teachings of Islam before you reject it, but, again, if O.B.L. says he is obligated to kill me because his religion says to, I will beleive him without first asking him to justify it to me by pointing out chapter and verse in the Koran or Hadiths. It's only polite, after all. And if not knowing every nuance of Islamic religious thought before I say, "nope, it's a sucky belief system" makes me a bigot, then I am comfortable being a bigot.
@bigbird
that's a big turd you dropped on us. yuk!@
OH I agree , Kwowing the scripture helps shut up taqiyya artists and explain to those on the fence Islam is genocide.
Shirk is worse than Killing
Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:
﴿وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ﴾
(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:
﴿وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ﴾
(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''
izlam is a polytheistic creed. allahu akbar means allah is bigger. in order to be bigger than other gods there have to be other gods.
izlam ordains the murder of disbelievers. therefore izlam is not even montheistic. If anyone believes we are all created by the same god, then good and kind behavior follow and not the killing of disbelievers who are just like us, but at a different point in the evolution of their beliefs.
what is izlam?
a jumble of nonsense written by a mentally ill con artist.
izlam is crap.
KAOSKTRL, you're not the first to have been insulted for posting quotes from the Qur'an .... here on a website dedicated to showing the Qur'anic basis for Islamic violence.
It's like going to a huntin' and fishin' website and not being allowed to mention animals or fish. But you want to rant about how liberals don't discipline their kids right, or how lefties hate their country and themselves, or how Democrats want to turn us all into Muslims, then nobody seems to mind if you blather on for page after page.
Some of the views expressed at JW/DW are perplexing, and not at all related to jihad.
KOASKTRL:
"I think if you are going to object to Islam you had better know what the scripture says about the fate of infidels and why its wrong ,so you are not a rank and file bigot . . . "
I know from your prior posts that you are with us. Like many of us, however, I do not like to be forced to read all that Islamic crap. I know about "Know your enemy," and all that. How deeply do you have to know your enemy? I mean, if I don't read the scriptures, I don't know why they are doing what the are doing? Frankly, I don't gve a fig WHY, they are doing it. They are doing it. I am just a rank-and-file bigot.
BUT my bigotry targets only one ideology: Islam and those who carry that disease. One-trick bigot?
Not one tin-soldier though.
special_guest
you know that from time to time there's an uprising of new muslim trolls.
Some of the members here aren't everyday here and mistook those for propaganda.
My personal interest in reading the comments however is not finding pages and pages of koran quotes , not to mention in original arabic, because those quotes are easily googled.
I'd rather have personal commentary than static quotes, UNLESS it's strictly required.
If the conversation goes:
"I hate Islam and its violence!"
"Islam is not violent. The Qur'an teaches peace towards all. Are you some kind of bigot?"
"Yep, and proud of it!"
That's not going to win over too many people. As opposed to:
"You are lying. The Qur'an teaches [insert violent, perverted, hateful Qur'anic quotes here]. Muslims are the bigots, as shown by [insert racist, violent, anti-Semitic Qur'anic quotes here]."
True, old timers have heard some of the quotes often enough to memorize them, but there are newbies coming all the time. And even old timers are surprised by new quotes sometimes.
Without knowledge of the true motivation, the majority of Westerners will continue to believe that the latest attack is just the work of another lone fanatic suffering from mental illness, and by the way, let's increase immigration quotas from Islamic countries, and allow Arabs to run our ports, and send more financial assistance to our "staunch allies" in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
I think what got people mad this time was the Arabic script. To some, it looks like swastikas all over the page, and it's upsetting in that way. Understandable.
Bigbird, I copied that posting of yours into Word Perfect, it was 3755 words of pure, unprocessed crap.
The question then is why when a Danish newspaper depicts Prophet Muhammad in a ludicrous manner, or previously when a Pakistani author goes on a fictive rampage denigrating the sacrosanct moments of a people's history, some Muslims, particularly those suffering the terror of tyrannical rulers at home or else the indignities of labour migration abroad, are outraged.
Why do you people keep excusing the outrageous reactions to a satiracle cartoon?
The primary and principal target of these cartoons, with the denigration of Muslims they entail, is in fact labour immigrants of Muslim descent suffering the racism of their host country in one shade, shape, and form or another.
I can tell by your spelling, that your are British. I'm not; however, I have enough of a British heritage to be really embarrassed by your writing.
From Muslim Woman: Who does this land belong to? I thought it belonged to the native americans.
I have traced my ancestry to a Thornhill family in Virginia in 1690. I am a also a native American, dammit.
Then I can call people in Israel and tell them to get back to GAZA and west bank?
Posted by StillFedUp
No, we can give the Jews Egypt, they built most of the "ancient wonders." They could place a mechanic's lein on everything built before the Exodus.
Muslim Woman rights:
"We will judge Islam by how its followers ACT, and, so far, we are unimpressed."
Funny, same could be said for christianity. We will judge Christianity by how it's followers ACT and, so far, we are unimpressed.
The difference is one is NOT allowed to judge. ONLY God has the right.
The Bible says "do not judge, lest ye be judged by the same staff".
First, follow the Bible, then come talk to me.
Posted by: muslim woman at October 6, 2006 02:49 PM
Nice Try but not a correct rendering of the meaning of Matthew 7:1!
Take you fingers to Strongs Concordance of the Bible and look up the word "Judge" for the verse you quote! It has in my concordance the Strongs number #2919 ( "krisis". When you then look up the Chaldeean usage of that particular word from the original scriptures the overwhellming majority of the usage is associated with "Condemnation" "Judging at law" "legal law suit" which has the inference of a FINAL Condemnation". As support look up: I Corinthians 6:2 "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge (2919) the world? and if the world shall be judged(2919) by you, are ye unworthy to judge (2922) the smallest matters? Here the word judge, kriterion, (2922) is contrasted with judge (2919) and the word kriterion (2922) is used to indicate a rule of judging or in english, criterion! The word judge used in "judging the world" means to condemn, punish avenge etc.
We as children of God can use criteria to judge between issues what we cannot do is condemn the individual to his final fate yet for disobediance to God. That judgement must wait until after Christ returns!
Politely I say I do follow the Bible just not the in accurrate translation which fits your agenda!
Sure we can judge, If you join a genocidal hate group (like islam/muhammadism)you support gencide and are not a good person from a western POV.
muslim woman said:
"By the way, what about the 1 million plus converts who are born and raised in America with generations of ancestory in America. Where do they go?"
They get to live by our Constitution, and our laws passed Democratically within the constraints of that Constitution, or go to jail.
They can have their religion, but insofar as that religion leads them to crimes--crime being formally defined by the above constraints which work marvelously well for maintaining an advanced, prosperous, creative civilization (standards which are historically derived from a theology that understands God to be a rational creator)--they will be imprisoned. Just like people who break the law for non-religious reasons.
(And note that sedition counts as a crime. Encouraging overthrow of the Constitution for sake of replacing it with a totalitarian religious law is sedition. This should be getting, for example, various CAIR officials thrown into jail. And it will, eventually, as the situation progresses, becoming more and more clear to more and more people.)
No, we can give the Jews Egypt, they built most of the "ancient wonders." They could place a mechanic's lein on everything built before the Exodus.
Posted by: Pelayo
Not accurate.
The Egyptian peasants built most of the things in Egypt. Given the nature of agriculture in along the nile at the time, there were long periods in the year in which the peasants did not farm. The state had them build things like the pyramids at these times.
The Jews were a relatively small presence in Egypt before the Exodus, in terms of labor (relative to the Egyptian peasants, who were themselves basically surfs, as the Egyptian state would use its stored wealth to buy up property in times of drought). You'll notice in particular that the Moses story has the Jews building things out of straw and mud bricks : this indicates that any stone work being done at that time was not being done by them. And in the time of Ramses II, stone work was being done.
There's a (Jewish) Prof. Brier who is an expert on Ancient Egypt, and goes into some detail about the evidence for the Biblical claims about the Jews in Egypt. Overall he says that the story is internally consistant. But the story certainly doesn't have the Jews building all the temples, and the evidence doesn't suggest that any more than the Bible does.
On the issue of giving things back to who they belonged:
How about we give back Britain to the Celts? And Western Europe to the Basques, the remnants of the first people to settle it?
Of course the Egyptians with Arab blood will have to be quartered and sent part back to the Arabian penninsula. Europeans with a genetic profile like the bulldozer driver who pestered Aruthur Dent will have to likewise be slice up, with small portions of them being sent to Mongolia.
Mexico, again, lots of slicing and shipping back body parts to Spain. Quite like many of both the white-looking and Native-looking people of North America.
Oh, and don't forget the Inu (spelling?) in Japan. They'll have to be given the whole Island. ...Any anthropologists know exactly where we'll have to send the rest of the Japanese?
...Hmmm, you don't think less human suffering and destruction would be involved if we basically let people stay put, tried to prevent future takovers of land, and did the best we can to encourage economic and educational opportunities for people so that they could make the best of where and what they are now?
muslim woman said:
"By the way, what about the 1 million plus converts who are born and raised in America with generations of ancestory in America. Where do they go?"
Hell!
This is really fairly lame anti-dhimmitude, and wrong headed in its pronouncement that one must respect all other faiths. One is only required at most to respect another’s right to practice freely (within the nation’s laws) his or her religion – one is NOT obliged to RESPECT any religion. And if one doesn’t respect a particular religion it is his right to say so and why, and this is a human right. Why can’t politicians see and say this instead of the crap about respecting religions. Unfortunately, with the recent Robert Redeker case, it is clear that muslims are trying desperately to destroy any right to criticize Islam or Muhammad. I suspect their violent reactions are defense mechanisms stemming from their subconscious awareness of how vulnerable their moronic 7th century cult is to criticism.