Business as usual at the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence. From Al-Jazeera:
A deadly bombing on Mumbai's railway system was masterminded by Pakistan's spy agency and carried out by the Islamist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, Indian police said.
"We have solved the July 11 bombings case. The whole attack was planned by Pakistan's ISI [Directorate of Inter Services Intelligence] and carried out by Lashkar-e-Taiba and their operatives in India," A.N. Roy, Mumbai's police commissioner said.
Roy said the ISI had begun planning the attacks in March and later provided training to those who carried out the bombings.
Pakistan said India had shown them no evidence of Pakistani involvement in the blasts which killed more than 200 people.
"India has always chosen this path of pointing fingers at Pakistan without evidence," Tariq Azim Khan, the information minister, said. "If they have any evidence, they should provide us evidence and we will carry out our investigations."
In other words, please compromise your sources and methods.
Fifteen people, including 11 Pakistanis, have been arrested over the attacks. They include an engineer, a journalist, a computer software professional and a doctor.
India suggested shortly after the attacks that they might have been carried out by a Pakistan-based group and postponed scheduled peace talks with Islamabad.
During a news conference, Roy gave a detailed description of how the explosives were transported into India and by whom. He also described how the bombs were packed into pressure cookers and placed on the trains.
Seven bombs exploded on crowded passenger trains during rush hour killing at least 207 people and leaving 700 injured.
"Fifteen people, including 11 Pakistanis, have been arrested over the attacks. They include an engineer, a journalist, a computer software professional and a doctor."
This should negate a popular belief that terrorism can be eliminated by improving educational standards among Muslims - the line toed by many moderate Muslims in India.
Most terrorist attacks in India and elsewhere are actually masterminded by educated persons who have sophisticated knowledge of chemicals, electronics and explosives.
If even a highly educated person who apparently has a rational mind goes about bombing innocent people, then it is obvious that the problem lies elsewhere. I feel it all lies in a book.
ISI is not solely responsible for the bombing. Without domestic support, it is impossible for a foreign organisation to carry out its sinister activities. This means there are a lot of home grown perverts in India who actively and covertly support the activities of ISI. There are many among the Muslim community who plead loyalty to Pakistan in India. In some instances, when Pakistan beats India in a cricket match, some Muslims are out waving Pakistani flags, bursting fireworks and distributing sweets. These perverts belong to the much larger body of silent Paki supporters belonging to the Muslim community in India.
India like many other countries need to really take a serious look at islam, and when it gets so violent, they need to just boot them out. l dont know how you can legally do it, this is Clintonian thinking, but if your more agreeable you need to vote this theme in your governmnet. l dont know how long it will take the government, as they have become appeasers for so long, it unfortunately will take much more destruction before they go for the final solution. that is outlaw islam.
Christina Lamb has written a piece about Pakistan that every time there is a terrorist incident, they are the one involved. Musharra's book makes clear his resentment and that of Pakistan over the US stopping aid after the Soviets left Afghanistan c. 1989. Its almost like they thought of US aid as Jizyah tax.
Pakistan exploded its nuke in May 98, al Qaeda attacked our embassies in Aug 98, Musharraf attacked India in 1999, then he had his coup in Oct 99, then al Qaeda attacked the USS Cole in 2000, then WTC and Pentagon in 2001. Ahmed of ISI was in DC to collect 3 billion in US aid to control al Qaeda and also to roll over 38 billion USD foreign debt.
Pakistan was broke on 9-11 and couldn't pay its debts. Because of US Sanctions it was unlikely to get new IMF and World Bank loans.
In 1996, Pakistan's leader went to the UN and met with Stanley Fischer of IMF to get 80mm USD of loans from the IMF. Fischer insisted on what Pakistan considered harsh terms. Musharraf had to deal with the debt crisis when he took office in Oct 99 and also before that dealing with the army budget as head of the army.
Pakistan was running out of money while it was funding nuclear bombs, subs and cruise missiles, a war with India and paying off its accumulated debt of 38 billion. They blamed the US for that debt. In their minds, that debt was due to their supporting the US in Afghanistan. It doesn't matter how little sense that makes.
"Pakistan is the main ally. If we were not with you, you won't manage anything," Musharraf said according to Reuters. He is the egotistical meglomaniac he says that A Q Khan is.
Musharraf's book contains passages where he breaks out into anger. One is over calling Pakistan's bomb the Muslim bomb. He becomes unglued in his book talking about this as racist, etc.
And while all that goes on, some Hindus choose to accept jobs in Muslim organizations that require burkhas just don't get it, or worse, don't care.
Particularly galling was this statement towards the end of the article:
And all this in Mumbai, no less. A pity those intellectual whores weren't blown up on 7/11.p288 of Musharraf "In the Line of Fire"
"In May (1998) he (A Q Khan) had instantly become the father of the 'Islamic Bomb' to our public and to the world -- as if a bomb could have a religion. I find this description pejorative and offensive. No one else's bomb is called Hindu, Jewish, Christian, capitalist, or communist, yet somehow our bomb becomes 'Islamic,' as if that makes it illegitimate. The idea is illogical and essentially racist. This is an example of how Muslims continually feel unjustly singled out and alienated."
And we know what happens when that happens. It appears Musharraf had this reaction in May 98, before he attacked India in 99 and then had his coup in Oct 99. Musharraf in particular was behind the attack on India in 1999. It is clear that Musharraf had this feeling from May 98 to today when the book is published in Sep 2006.
even when provided evidence pakistan is very eluctant to act. many jihadi outfits operate openly in pakistan collecting money and recruiting people in prominent cities like lahore and peshawar. the authorities are definitely aware of it but they wont act on it.
and it is extimated that close to 600 people died in the mumbai blasts. 200 is the number of bodies that have been identified.
there are many traitorous muslims who live in india but pledge allegiance to pakistan. they povide al the logistics and inteligence about the ideal places and the ideal time to attack. India as ben compromised by traitors within india. shame on the government for going soft on terror, shame on manmohan. and then he does a u turn in indias pakistan policy calling pakistan a victim of terror!! unbelieveable dhimmitude!!!
India should tell their muslim community that those who will place Islam before their nation should leave and go to Pakistan.
Pakistan is a part of India given to those who believe that Islam comes before the nation.
Deal with it, India, and sooner than later for the threat will not go away by appeasement.
"India has always chosen this path of pointing fingers at Pakistan without evidence," Tariq Azim Khan, the information minister, said. "If they have any evidence, they should provide us evidence and we will carry out our investigations."
He forgot to add that Al-Qaeda and Taliban also still await even the flimsiest evidence acceptable to them regarding their involvement in 9/11, from the US and NATO.
There is obviously a sinister conspiracy afoot throughout the world to blame the muslims for all terrorist violence. Phillipines, Bali, Timor, Indonesia, Thailand, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, Balkans, Russia, UK....this is most unfair. The entire world must be quickly brought under islam very very peacefully, unless of course it resists, so that everyone can understand the truth and stop completely misrepresenting a religion that is all about peace, brotherhood of man and equality (esp of men and women).
"India has always chosen this path of pointing fingers at Pakistan without evidence," Tariq Azim Khan, the information minister, said. "If they have any evidence, they should provide us evidence and we will carry out our investigations."
He forgot to add that Al-Qaeda and Taliban also still await even the flimsiest evidence acceptable to them regarding their involvement in 9/11, from the US and NATO.
There is obviously a sinister conspiracy afoot throughout the world to blame the muslims for all terrorist violence. Phillipines, Bali, Timor, Indonesia, Thailand, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, Balkans, Russia, UK....this is most unfair. The entire world must be quickly brought under islam very very peacefully, unless of course it resists, so that everyone can understand the truth and stop completely misrepresenting a religion that is all about peace, brotherhood of man and equality (esp of men and women).
A discussion at URL indicated by Old Atlantic on this post of whether Musharraf knew about 9-11 before hand.
The following quote is from the discussion page. Its pretty stiff, but deserves our consideration.
"
RE:Did Musharraf know about 9/11
I think US deserve 9/11 and hope they get some more for their attitude towards Paksitan. What a crap this US is. I have never seen anyone helping the very people who killed his men. People in US lack knowledge abt. outside world who beleive what their govt. says. Things will not get changed unless and until some more of 9/11's happen in US (under the auspices of Musharraf and co.).
Posted by Ramanathan on 04-AUG-04"
The US paid Pakistan 3 billion after 9-11 and rolled over 38 billion USD in debt.
Another writer concludes:
"
Time for honesty.
Mush knew. End of story.
"
One can then look at the main article.
p288 of Musharraf "In the Line of Fire"
"In May (1998) he (A Q Khan) had instantly become the father of the 'Islamic Bomb' to our public and to the world -- as if a bomb could have a religion. I find this description pejorative and offensive. No one else's bomb is called Hindu, Jewish, Christian, capitalist, or communist, yet somehow our bomb becomes 'Islamic,' as if that makes it illegitimate. The idea is illogical and essentially racist. This is an example of how Muslims continually feel unjustly singled out and alienated."
excerpt from posting by: Old Atlantic on October 1, 2006 09:51 AM
It is quite amusing that Musharraf gets incensed by the use of the term 'Islamic bomb' when the term was first actually coined by a previous Prime Minister of Pakistan, Mr. Zulfiqar Bhutto (who was eventally hanged to death by the military government under Zia ul Haq).
The late Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who was then Pakistan's Prime Minister, warned that "we will eat leaves and grass, even go hungry" to build the country's own weapon. "There's a Hindu bomb, a Jewish bomb and a Christian bomb," Bhutto once wrote. "There must be an Islamic bomb."
Note: this is an excerpt from the July 9, 1979 issue of Time magazine
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,920461,00.html
"They include an engineer, journalist, computer software professional, and doctor." There's an oxymoron for you. "educated criminals."
Razdan,
That is quite interesting to know. Thanks.
"There's a Hindu bomb, a Jewish bomb and a Christian bomb," Bhutto once wrote. "There must be an Islamic bomb."
Note: this is an excerpt from the July 9, 1979 issue of Time magazine
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,920461,00.html
Posted by: Razdan at October 1, 2006 11:37 AM
So much for occupying the moral high ground that the West is always expected to hold. At least the first 3 bombs are under control of rational people. Can the same be said of number four?
The Pak bomb design was actually given to them by the Chinese, so its probably fair to classify it as a Buddhist bomb. Their missiles are of North Korean design, so again no indigenous capability there.
This raises a question BTW, why was Islam not as successful in China where the pre-dominant religion has been Buddhism ?
bajirao (incidentally, your namesake (the first) is one of the Hindus that I most admire throughout Indian history)
Communism deserves to be categorized as a separate 'religion' in its own right - it's completely wrong to describe Mao Zedong, Zhou Enlai, Deng Xiaoping et al as Buddhists, just as it would be to describe Vladimir Lenin or Josef Stalin as Russian Orthodox Christians, or Jyoti Basu or Prakash Karat as Hindus. They possess a belief system that's not only different, but aggressively hostile to these religions, almost on the scale of Islam. If Buddhism was the reason China is a nuclear power, then why not the Sinhalas in Sri Lanka, or the Thais, or the Burmese? Similarly, if Russian Orthodoxy is the reason that the Soviets were a nuclear power (whose nukes were inherited by the Russkies), then why isn't the same true of other countries that are Eastern (albeit not Russian) orthodox, such as Greece?
All the Islamic bombs are bombs purchased from the Communist empire.
Infidel Pride,
Your mention of "intellectual whores" is very true. Lots of hindus in their pathetic cowardly attempts at ingratiating themselves to muslimes observe fasts during ramadan in Varanasi. I know of many who visit their darghas for wish fulfillment; travel for a dekko at tipu sultan's breeches; Would not be surprised if they also circumambulate it:)) Hindu Temples' funds are diverted to finance haj travel. Even the *black hole* would be eclipsed when you take into account the gargantuan charities in the form of money and materials gobbled up by them. hindus in overwhelming numbers prayed for and demanded the release of terrorist cum film actor salman khan. hindus queue up to "donate blood" for muslimes.
dhimmis are impervious to wisdom.
Old Atlantic,
>>>I have never seen anyone helping the very people who killed his men>>>.
I think honourable Ramanathan was referring to india.
On the very day of Mumbai train blasts, indian dhimmis handed over a cheque for some millions to pukis across labelled as "earthquake relief funds" embellished with sheepish grins and handshakes that only indian dhimmis can excel in!
india is no longer even a worthy opponent who evokes admiration or respect from pukis I feel...but lots of contempt....yess!
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=151&page=33
“Pakistan wants to destroy Hindu civilisation"
India's shameless appeasement of muslimes remind me of the typical ubiquitous indian actress who is prim and coy but soon goes overboard in baring all as the "role demands it".
Unfortunately Muslims are favorable voters in the eyes of Indian politicians. Candidates woo the Muslims because they are potential supporters of their electoral programme.
I cannot see how India can get around that.
Hindu civilization is vulnerable to the Islamic onslaught. I once visited Belur and Halebidu in Karnataka. The Hoysala kingdom there was destroyed by Muslim hordes 700 years ago and the cities were flattened. When I saw the lovely and refined sculptures, some unfinished, I could not avoid thinking:
"They didn't know what swept over them."
Rocky,
The mention of Hampi Ruins opens up searingly painful memories.....
Crows and Crows
Yes, Bajirao is the Hindu leader I also admire. The Marathas (and to some extent the Sikhs) were the only race who not only stopped the rise of the Islamic forces but reversed an almost 800 year trend of dhimmitude. Their example is worth studying solely because this is the only instance in history where this has happened. Not only the Marathas reversed the tide but they managed to subdue the Nizam and Bijapur Islamic kingdoms and even extract taxes from them. At one point, Bajirao invaded Delhi, the heart of the Mughal empire for centuries. And but for the Maratha's valiant efforts at Panipat, the West would have had twenty more Pakistans to deal with. The debt that India and the world owes the Marathas and Sikhs is immense.
I think Communism is the weaker force vis-a-vis Islam (note the trouble the Russians are having). That is why I am curious about the Chinese. Besides, communism is a recent pheonomenon, China withstood the Islamic forces for centuries. The reason could be that India was a more attractive target.
The debt that India and the world owes the Marathas and Sikhs is immense.
Posted by: bajirao on October 2, 2006 10:54 AM
Don't forget the great Rajputs who, along with the Sikhs and the Marathas, faught valiantly against the Muslim invaders. See for example:
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_and_Invasions_of_India
Razdan,
I am familiar with the bravery of the Rajputs. However, I feel they were mostly in the defensive. The Marathas and Sikhs knew that purely defensive postures were not enough and often attacked pre-emptively. This is why I rate them higher than the Rajputs.
Bajirao, good point! Agree 100% that one should ALWAYS be on the offensive, especially when it comes to something as malignant as Islam.
In light of the recent "request" for clemency for Afzal, the chap who was indicted in the Indian Parliament Attack case, I thought that this little piece I wrote a few days after the attack might give some perspective to all the "human rights" activists.
We Shall Overcome
==================
All Indians have greeted the December 13 attack against the Indian parliament with cries of indignation, angst, fury and a quiet determination to exterminate this repugnant menace of terrorism. Quotes have been flying around thick and fast about how an attack on the Parliament is an attack against our country’s soul, our democratic institutions and democracy in general. Politician after glib politician has appeared on television to air his glib views on how there was a security lapse and to make bombastic statements about how we Indians will never bow down to terrorism.
The terrorists and their puppeteers, watching all this on TV might be chortling with glee at the familiar (and to the Indian public depressingly familiar) scenario being played out in India after any and every terrorist attack. They might even think that with a bunch of bumbling idiots for leaders, India is easy pickings for them. Thankfully for us and unfortunately for them their dream of realizing their invidious designs will remain just that; a pipedream. Not because we have exceptionally brave, courageous and decisive leaders. No. But because we have brave, courageous, patriotic and dutiful citizens.
In all this talk of an attack against the foundations of democracy, there is not much talk of the brave men and a woman who gave their lives to save that principle, that ideal of democracy. The terrorists will fail, not because of any particular superiority on the part of our security apparatus, but because, the men and women making up these forces are a breed apart. They are not fanatics willing to kill for a cause. They are however patriots who will fight and die defending an ideal. The men and the woman who died were not highly paid members of the police. Instead, they belonged to that much-reviled branch, the members at the bottom of the police force, the hawaldars. They belong to that lowly paid bunch that try and make a living from the pittance that the government doles out to them. A few of them, unable to make ends meet, prey on the hapless citizen for their “chai-paani”, thus earning the ire of a majority of the population. Their portrayal in movies is that of the bumbling cop, terrorized by the goons of the mafia as well as the goon-like politicians.
Despite all that, most of them persevere. Cometh the hour, cometh the man (woman) they say. And when the Parliament was attacked, these same, much loathed members of the police, gave up their lives to protect that emblem of Indian democracy. They didn’t have any sophisticated weapons. They didn’t have any special training to deal with terrorists. All they had was a sense of duty towards their job, their fellow citizens and their country.
Let us tell the terrorists why they will fail. They will fail because India is made up of people like Kamlesh Kumari, a mother of two, wife of a tailor and a member of a CRPF. Armed with a self-loading carbine, she faced down 5 or six armed terrorists with Kalashnikovs. If that isn’t bravery, then I don’t know what is. At that moment when she faced the terrorists, one wonders if the thought of her husband and her kids went through her mind. Most probably not. What she tried to do was to stop the nation’s enemies from laying siege to that hallowed portal of Indian democracy, that essence of India. At that moment, the patriot took precedence over the mother, the wife. She paid for it in blood, but she and her comrades achieved their aim. The Parliament was safe.
The terrorists should be told that we in India are like that. We are a peaceful race. We don’t want to subjugate nations or to force people to our way of life, our line of thinking. To outsiders, it might appear as if we are a disparate lot. We tend to bicker a lot amongst ourselves. Again, to outsiders it might look as if we lack unity, that we can’t stand each other’s guts. But our bickering is like the bickering within a family. We might yell and scream at each other, but if even one of us is attacked, we will band together. We will fight, to preserve our present and more importantly to preserve our future and the future of our kids and their descendants.
We have been in this land from time immemorial. We have faced countless invasions from rapacious invaders. We have survived that and we will survive this too. Ultimately, we will triumph, because we have had people like Rani Lakshmibai. And people like Kamlesh Kumari. We have love in our hearts, but we also have steel in our spines (even if our elected leaders don’t show any of it). Don’t mistake the love in our hearts for weakness. We will survive because of our citizens, our innate goodness and decency, the spirit of “let-live” and the capacity to brave any trials and tribulations that an outrageous fortune and vicious beasts like you (the terrorists) might throw at us.
So let us Indians, stand today and honour these brave men and the brave woman. Let us shed a tear or two for their families and in their memory. The government will most probably forget them within a week or two. They might hand out ex-gratia payments for the next of kin, mouth some platitudes about their bravery and then consign them to the dustbin of history. Let us, ordinary citizens not make the same mistake. Let us share the sorrow of their families. Let us imbibe their virtues, their patriotism, their heroism so that we too never bow down to this threat of terrorism and that when the time comes, we may find that hidden reservoir of staunch bravery to resist these enemies of a civilized life.