Qatari women outraged as activist backs polygamy

If we neglect this area it can bring about serious moral problems,"

Talk about funny! Yeah, marriages of convenience (for the men at least) are wonderful. Yet another fine 7th century gift bestowed by the Koran on 21st century people. Aside from this Islam has no moral problems,right?

muslim women are depressing. They are inside their death cult and they get pissed about the main features of their cult. Drop the cult already! Oh I forgot, you might get killed. Too bad...

And quatar would fool us into believing thei are seeeecular.

yeah, that's the secular we need....

The four-wives dispensaton makes sense if you are on an orgy of killing and conquest. What to do, what to do, with the women and girls when the men are all killed? Why, marry them of course. Or if not, make them your concubines. So many extra women, so many men who need their diurnal urges, not to mention the night-time ones, satisfied. That's where the Infidel women, seized when their men are killed, or even without battle (think of the kidnapped Christian girls in Ramadi, or the Coptic girls kidnapped by Muslim Arabs in Egypt and forcibly "converted" by their captors).

But in most societies, the ratio of men to women is about 1-1. If some men have two or three or four wives, other men will have none. It has to be. In Qatar, one with a ruling family, the Al-Thani, at least one of whose members warned a local member of Al-Qaeda that American agents were about to pounce, and where the Al-Jazeera propaganda station, now taken over entirely by the Ikhwan al-muslimin (the Muslim Brotherhood)is supported by the Qatari government, one wonders. Who are these extra women? Might they be, could they be, the expatriates -- from Asia, from Europe -- whom the locals would like to have around as an extra wife or two, and is it the local Arab women, or some of them, who object?

Demographic analysis required not only, it seems, in Western Europe, to establish the rapidity of growth, past, present, and likely in the future, of the Muslim populations, but also within Dar al-islam itself. How did the Shi'a outbreed the Sunnis in Iraq, and in Lebanon? How do the Sunnis do something about that. And how do the Infidels make harder the overbreeding by Muslims, and then the exporting to non-Muslim lands, of a portion of that hideously burgeoning population of primitive people, who bring with them in their mental baggage, undeclared, an alien and a hostile and for Infidels a most dangerous creed?

This is from the CIA Worldbook for Qatar:

Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 2.24 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 2.84 male(s)/female
total population: 1.87 male(s)/female (2006 est

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/qa.html#People

Now I'm not very good at reading statistics, graphs etc. but this seems to be saying that at ages 15-64 there are more than twice as many males as females in Qatar. Even allowing for immigrant workers, surely this seems extraordinarily excessive. Do many of the women get 'honour' killed or die in childbirth, would that account for the disparity?

If this is the case that males outnumber females to such an extent, iow if I am reading this right, even the stupid argument of excess females falls by the wayside.

Muslims always say that back in pre-islamic times men used to marry scores of wives and that Mohammed 'limited' them to four, which was supposed to be 'a good thing'. Yet at the same time, they were supposedly burying all their daughters alive. Something didn't add up then, and something doesn't add up now.

Silvester,
I have been wondering about those stats before. It's the same about almost all the smaller states on the Arab peninsula. I too wondered first whether it's the honor killings and multiple childbirths that kill off so many women at young age. But according to those same statistics, women's average life expectancy is not lower than men's. So, the only logical conclusion is that many women just don't exist as legal persons. The more normal ratio among children could mean either that they have recently started counting girls too, or that women cease to exist legally only when they get sold... er, I mean married.

I'll marry a Qatari woman who leaves Islam. In addition to a warm, caring, compassionate and a professional husband, she gets full and equal rights US constitution.

Polygamy (meaning many wives for one husband) necessarily renders some number of males "surplus". These surplus males must look outward in order to find mates for themselves. As Islam allows a man to keep the women that he gains through his right hand (i.e., through conquest), it all works well for Islamic expansion via jihad. See, the Islamic warrier is well compensated in this world as well as the next.

Cheers,

From an article by William Tucker:

What differentiates Islam from the world’s other great religions—Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism—is that it sanctions and practices polygamy. How did this happen?

The consensus among anthropologists is that humanity spent the first 4-5 million years of our evolutionary history living monogamously in small hunting-and-gathering tribes. We know this because the few hunter-gatherers that remain—the Kalahari Bushmen, the Pygmies of Africa, the Australian Aborigines—are all monogamous.

What is so important about monogamy? Its principle advantage is that monogamy guarantees every man an equal chance of having a wife. For small, tightly knit bands of humans surviving in perilous environments, this was crucial for maintaining group loyalty. If a dominant male took more than one wife while others were left with none, dissention would arise and the solidarity of the group would be destroyed.

Polygamy eventually did arise in nearly all parts of the world, however, and anthropologists believe it had to do with growing prosperity. When the first farmers and herders began to accumulate fixed wealth, women began to be bought and sold as wives. The “brideprice”—a payment the wife’s family demands of the husband’s family—is universal in polygamous societies. As the accumulation of wealth grew unevenly, wealthier men took more wives while poorer men were left with none.

Polygamy is still practiced widely in West Africa, where leading men sometimes take as many as 30-50 wives. This leaves a huge residue of unattached men. It is probably the principle reason why so many African countries are beset by “revolutionary armies” living in the bush and raiding rural villages to steal women.

By the fifth century B.C., most of the world’s major religions had been established and had rejected polygamy as part of their social contract. When the Prophet Mohammad founded Islam in the seventh century, however, he inherited the polygamy that was still being practiced by desert herding tribes. Although Mohammed limited each man to four wives and required that he treat them equally, he did not abolish polygamy. That decision has had a tremendous impact on history.

The prohibition against more than four wives was not always honored anyway and the “Sultan’s harem” became a staple of Muslim culture. The counterpoint has been the large populations of unattached warlike men that populate Islamic history.

Islam has a long history of conquest, but it has also been plagued by revolutions from within. Typically a band of unattached men will go into the desert, decide that the faith being practiced by the urban elites is not the “true Islam,” and burst back upon the cities to conquer them—and take their women as well. Jihad has always been the faith of these efforts.

Today polygamy is not practiced widely in Islamic countries, and only accounts for about ten percent of all marriages. The country where the distribution of wives is most unequal—Saudi Arabia—seems to be the best at producing roving jihadists who roam the world in search of conflict.

The absence of a norm of a “man for every woman, a woman for every man” also creates an entirely different male psychology. At one extreme, men consider their own lives to be worthless and expendable because they will not have the chance to reproduce. At the other extreme, they are promised “72 virgins in heaven.” Sometimes the extremes converge.

Polygamy creates dysfunctional societies. Jihad, with its perpetual social unrest, is unlikely to disappear until it is eliminated. I would suggest the United States propose a “right to reproduce” be added to the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The UN would be the perfect place to initiate a global debate.

http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.18649/article_detail.asp

Hello,
Do we forget that in our society we do have sects that offer polygamy, like for instance Mormans do. If you don't understand something, what right do you have to judge it. Jesus has said "do not judge lest you be judged by the same staff". Polygamy was started for a reason, as a way to protect women when their, brothers, fathers, or husband were killed in wars. Back then, women did not work, and if their main support was killed, who would take care of them. This at least gives respect to women, knowing that they will be taken care of respectfully. In most countries, excpet Saudi, polygamy is discouraged. In Pakistan, for instance, there is a law that says that in order for the husband to marry a second wife, he needs his first wifes permission. Let me tell you that in Pakistan, there are not too many marriages that have 2 or more wifes. Instead of always believing just a few stories, really ask yourself why these women seem happy and content. Most are you know. I've been and know first hand. Most women have more than 1 maid to help with the housecleaning. How many maids do you have? I live in American, before we go judging another country,first we must fix what is wrong with our own country.

Muslim woman - would you allow your husband to have a couple of other wives if he could treat you all equally ( at least financially, that is...)

Thanks.

Where in the Koran does it sanction polygamy? What chapter?

"Do we forget that in our society we do have sects that offer polygamy, like for instance Mormans do. If you don't understand something, what right do you have to judge it. "

muslim troll, the mormons are 12 millions, you animals are 100 times more.

"Polygamy was started for a reason"

yes muslim troll, as we read from one post above to satisfy the lust of muslim animals.

"Back then, women did not work,"

there was a woman later taken by muhammad (your pedophile prophet) that was a worker, a sort of business woman. If she hadn't met your pedophile prophet she would have been able to take care of herself.

how do you put up with that?

"This at least gives respect to women, knowing that they will be taken care of respectfully. "

here's the typical way in which your muslim animals take care of women

http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002544.html

" Instead of always believing just a few stories, really ask yourself why these women seem happy and content. "

I have yet to see a muslim woman being happy, they all look angry, illiterate and beaten up.

You are merely stupid and we know stupidity is bliss, you probably like to be raped every night and beaten with a stick

" Most women have more than 1 maid to help with the housecleaning. How many maids do you have?"

yes we all know about how islam permits slavery

"I live in American, before we go judging another country,first we must fix what is wrong with our own country."

there's nothing wrong with the treatment of women in USA, otherwise you cow, why don't you get back to fuckistan where you belong?

If there was something wrong with USA why you decided to go there? there are millions of muslim crapholes around the world.

Dhimminite:

Qur'an 4.3
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

muslim woman:

You must have flunked U.S. history or weren't there on the day polygamy in Utah was discussed.

As a condition for entry into the American union, Utah had to abolish polygamy. The Mormon Church banned polygamy in 1890 and any sects that practice it are doing so outside of the Mormon church and against American law. So, sorry muslim woman, "our society" (which you don't seem to know much about) DOES NOT OFFER polygamy.

Also, in "our society," most AMERICAN women do not have maids. I myself CLEAN UP after myself and have trained my husband and two sons to clean up after themselves.

Since you seem to be proud of having a maid (the American dream for you, no doubt), I hope you are paying her a living wage and contributing to her Social Security fund. Also, do you provide health care? Two weeks paid vacation?

And pray tell, what is wrong with our country?

Shall I tell you what the real problem is the Bride price is too high. I worked in Quatar 30 years ago and it was the same then as it is now. When Qatar became rich over night with the rise in oil prices after the Israeli Arab war. The Qatarian put up the prise of the brides. What did the men do, they went to Egypt and picked one up cheap. I worked for an Arab firm and lived in an Arab district and most of the people there, or at least my neighbours had catalogue brides or were going to get one. To get out of this problem they have to lower the price of the local tarts. It is the law of supply and demand. What they need is a good clearance sale with a good discount. They could learn a lot from the capitalistic west.

Muslim woman - I'm interested in hearing about the mechanics of the ménage a trois. How do you share? What if one lady has greater needs than other ladies? What if one lady is pregnant or incapacitated some way? What happens to the equal turns? Can you all ladies and the husband get together the same night, like if husband is going on a long trip and won't be taking the ladies Can more than one lady share the same bed with husband.... How about some details, I'd like to understand before I judge.

If a wife of a bigamist says she's happy sharing her man, she's a liar. Women don't like to share. In islam, they don't have a choice. If the muslim husband is scared of asking, he sends her a letter telling her he's taken another one.

Plague, I've wondered the same things. How do you decide whose turn it is? Is it for all night, or does the second wife get sloppy seconds?

There has to be a lot of jealousy in these arrangements. It wouldn't be pretty.

freewoman, I think I can answer this.

It doesnt take a muslim woman (and they are all liars, as we know) to answer you.

I have seen a movie about concubines in old china. It's a famous movie but I don't remember the title.

Basically as you would expect, the man, married to 2 or 3 women had sex only with the youngest or the prettiest, the old wives were mere housekeepers. Which man who has got an harem, would spend quality time with the oldest wife when he's got younger wives? that makes no sense

There is no justice or fairness in the deranged muslim brain, and no wife could held him accountable for anything, therefore why wasting time and efforts to equally please all his women?

The chance that a muslim man can marry 4 beautiful young girls is very small, unless he's very wealthy. Normally there's one older wife and one younger.

I can understand tho that the old wife can find some relief when he puts his eyes on another poor young wife.

It must be disgusting to be with a muslim man, so much that when he has no more sex interest in you, you take it as a heavenly break in your hellish life.

as i said freewoman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raise_the_Red_Lantern#Plot

"The film is set in 1920s China during the warlord era, years before the Chinese Civil War. Nineteen-year-old 頌蓮 Songlian (Gong Li), whose father has recently died and left the family bankrupt, marries into the wealthy Chen family, becoming the fourth wife — or, as she is referred to, the Fourth Mistress — of the household. Arriving at the palatial abode, she is at first treated like royalty, receiving sensuous foot massages, brightly-lit red lanterns, as well as nightly visits from her husband (Jingwu Ma), the master of the house. Songlian soons discovers, however, that not all the wives in the household receive the same luxurious treatment. In fact, the master decides on a daily basis which wife he will spend the night with; whomever he chooses gets her lanterns lit, receives the foot massage, gets her choice of menu items at mealtime, and gets the most attention and respect from the servants. Pitted in constant competition against each other, the four wives are continually vying for their husband's attention and affections, though the eldest one not so much.

The eldest wife of the household, Yuru (Jin Shuyuan), appears to be nearly as old as the master himself. Having born a son decades earlier, she seems resigned to live out her life as a forgotten concubine, always passed over in favor of the younger wives."

See? 100% accurate

Freewoman... I am curious and full of question as you are... I have many more... for instance: what if one of the older wives likes to get it on more than the younger wives? Can she pull rank on the younger one? Are the wives ranked? What's the criteria? What if a wife thinks she's not getting as much sex time as she should? What does she do? Can you marry twin girls? Can you shack up with three at the same time? I could get more explicit and mechanical with the questions, but I'll wait to see if muslim woman will reciprocate here and discuss the arrangements. She hints she has personal knowledge of the ins & outs ( so to speak ).

I'm all ears.

I'v lived my life long enough to know that the most important lesson from God is that our hearts and souls experience true love once in our lifetime. How can a man truly love more than one woman at the same time, likewise, how can a woman truly love a man who's banging other woman.I used to think the male elephant walrus was the most selfish being on the planet due to the fact that they will suffocate their own offspring for sex. This ansari creature and radical islam, win the prize.

Having lived for decades among Muslims I have observed that the outrage of Muslim women against polygamy almost never spurs them into action against the Islamic doctrine.
Mostly they blame their husbands, the greediness of men, claiming that it is against true islam or such misdirected complaints. But they avoid publicly talking about the origin of that practice, which is Mohamed's behavior becoming law.
I have yet to see them identifying their real enemy which lies at the very core of their religion.

A major drawback of polygamy is that boys with the same mother and different fathers can often be the best of friends but boys with the same father and different mothers are almost always bitter rivals, if not enemies. The Ottoman sultans incorporated this phenomenon into the process of succession: the selected successor was expected to murder all his brothers.

I have yet to see them identifying their real enemy which lies at the very core of their religion.

Posted by: rocky at October 2, 2006 09:50 PM

Muslim wives know well that criticizing Islam means blasphemy, which means a certain death, probably a cruel one.. say, by stoning. So, you see, the most muslim wives can do, if they want to live is to bicker and bitch. Slimy Mo made sure of that.

Dear Plague and others,

Let me explain how polygamy works, or is supposed to work. As in any religion, there is the way it's supposed to be and sometimes the way it is. Each wife is supposed to have her own seperate quarters, equal furniture, equal rights, and equal respect. I know of only one family that actually does this, so no I'm not experienced in this matter, at least not personally. In this family, it seems to work most of the time and they help each other out. In other countries, like Saudi, where this is more acceptable, that is only what they know. Having more than one wife is a high class status that actually makes many people happy. They have relations with each other seperate and not together, as each relationship is private. The husband is supposed to make sure that he has equal amount of time with all wifes, and makes sure that each one is satisfied equally. If he cannot make his wifes happy, then he cannot get married to another wife, that is why in most countries, you don't see polygamy.
As for me, my husband has only one wife, and I probably would not approve only because we come from an educated family that thinks that there is no reason for this arrangement in todays society. No one in my family, nor my husbands, nor anyone I know that does this, so for me it's a foreign consept that we usually only see in Saudi, and most people I know frown on this arrangement.
I do not have a maid, nor do I want one. I clean my own house, my husband helps with the housework, I own my own business, and get to keep my money, unless I want to contribute. I have 2 daughters that do their own laundry and have other responsibilities. I'm in Girl Scouts, executive board of PTA and volunteer in homeless shelters, as one of my daughters volunteers in a nursing home. I am not beaten, raped, or uneducated, I actually have 2 degrees and will hope to finish my 3rd degree someday. I do not look unhappy, I'm actually quite a happy person and have many friends, most who are christians.
Again, there are still sects that have more than one wife, even today in America. I do no some Mormons that have more than one wife.Polygamy in America is against the law, I know this. I have nothing against America, but I see the good in America and the bad. I'm not just onesided. I love America and was born and raised here, as are my daughters. There is good and bad in every country, including ours.

Sentimental platitudes of the "there is good and bad in every country" would have cut little ice during World War II or during the Cold War, though undoubtedl there were "good people" in Germany and Japan, and in the Soviet Union, and all kinds of "bad people" in the United States and in other countries allied to it.

The heart of the matter is not polygamy, but rather the doctrine, and the practice, of Islam as it relates to non-Muslims. What does the Qur'an, what do the Hadith, what does the figure of Muhammad, teach Muslims to think, and how to treat, non-Muslims? And how, ovewr 1350 years, have those non-Muslims, in the many lands conquered by Muslims, been treated? The evidence of the Qur'anic passages, the Hadith stories (from the most authoritative muhaddithin), and the example of Muhammad, are not hidden from view, but available for all Infidels to consider. The history of the Muslim conquests of the Middle East, North Africa, Sassanian Persia, Hindu (and Buddhist) India, and many other places, is also not hidden -- though long ignored or overlooked.

That is what counts. Not whether someone is a member of the PTA or the Girl Scouts. Sucjh details are irrelevant to the matter at hand, and the matter at hand is this: the division of the world that Islam teaches, between Believer and Infidel, between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb. All else is essentially irrelevant as far as Infidels, in comprehending Islam and in attempting to sensibly protect themselves, their legal and political institutions, their social arrangements, their moral understandings, are concerned.

Appeals to anything else are merely more attempts to focus on the trivial or the irrelevant, and to avoid the central questions, the things that matter.

Islam teaches kindness, charity, goodness, helping each other, humility, humbleness, respect for each other, your elders and to each other. Islam teaches this and soo much else. It's not say that all muslims follow this doctrine. They don't, and I will be the first to admit this, but many or most christians don't either.
You are right, one cannot ignore history, whether it's Islamic history or Christian history. Christian history has been spread the same way. Look at Alexand the Great, Constinaple, and many others in early christian history. Islam is not the only one that has spread it's faith by the sword. Does it make it right, for me at least, I think spreading anything by the sword is wrong. In Islam, one is not allowed to kill unless it's in self-defense. Jihad is a word that even many muslims don't understand, let along practice.
You are right, the heart of the matter is not polygamy, but the doctrine. Have you read the Quran? Have you read stories? Have you read the hadiths? What many, if not most muslims act does not portray the real Islam, neither does how christians act mostly today portray the true vision of christianity.
Most muslims are like me and follow the true meaning of Islam in their heart. I'm not so unusual, and yes, what we do in our everyday life does matter. How we show who we are is how people will see us, whether we are christians, Jews, or Muslims. Our actions mean everything. We cannot say we are one religon or another and not have the actions to back us up. If you honestly have the love of God in your heart, that the rest will follow naturally.
Again, don't look at the minority, but look at the majority. Look at the muslim doctors, muslim teachers, muslim store clerks, muslim nurses, muslim moms, muslim dads, muslim children, and really open your eyes and see that we are not that different once you take away the hatred and bashing some of us do to each other.
I'm not ignoring the central question, but trying to get you to see that I'm not any different than you. Our faith may be different, but inside we are the same. Look beyond the minority and look and focus with your heart and mind.
Everything matters, little and big. Our actions matter the most, and our religion. Most christians do not follow their doctrine properly and admit that, as do muslims. So, showing the properties of God is necessary if one is claiming they have God in their heart

From my reading of the Koran, Islam teaches very little kindness, charity, and humbleness towards infidels or apostates. No doubt all religions should encourage these benign sorts of things, but the Islamic sacred texts are just too contaminated. Haven't you noticed, Muslim woman, that whether a woman wanted to sleep with a man or not was immaterial to Mohammed. If she was his property in some way, then she had no say in the matter.

Muslim woman thinks her taqiyya will work magic on infidel fools. Like we don't know that 'Islam teaches kindness, charity, goodness, helping each other, humility, humbleness, respect for each other, your elders and to each other. Islam teaches this and soo much else' reserved for Muslims and muslims only!

She does not reveal that for infedels, there are:

Qur’an:9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an:8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

Qur’an:9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah’s Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place.”

Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”

Qur’an:8:72 “Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them—these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so.” [Another translation reads:] “You are only called to protect Muslims who fight.”

Qur’an:8:73 “The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah’s religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid—these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise).”

Qur’an:48:16 “Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: ‘You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture.”

Qur’an:48:22 “If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah.”

To list a few..........

"Have you read the Quran? Have you read stories? Have you read the hadiths?"
-- from a posting above

Yes.
As far as the crazed compilation of taqiyya-and-tu-quoque above, where the kindnesses of Muslims to Muslims are confused with the permanent hostility, even murerous hostility, which is not tangential but central to Islam (start with 9.5 and 9.29, or indeed all of Sura 9 -- and read it as if you were not a Muslim but a non-Muslim, and then go on to many of the Hadith, and do the same, and ask yourself what you would think), one has nothing to say.

It makes no sense. The blend of taqiyya -- or dissimulation -- and the usual tu-quoque (or: you all do it, everyone does it, all religions are the same -- no they aren't) depresses and dismays. Yet one more hopeless example --hopeless and at the same time, for us the Infidels, most telling, most instructive.

How much do you expect us to ignore -- of doctrine, clearly set out, of the model of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, and of the grim history of Muslim mass murder (60-70 million Hindus, for example) and of mistreatment, as dhimmis, of every conceivable kind of non-Muslim -- Christian, Jew, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jain, Confucian, and later the Sikhs as well -- from Spain to the East Indies, over 1350 years of history, do you expect us to continue to ignore?

How much? How intolerably stupid do you think we are?

Poligamy is an attack against the nuclear family. It is a civilizational regress.
Pligamy withdraws the right of equal status for both partners since it privileges the husband to break the vow of loyalty towards his wife, thereby breaking the original bond of marriage.

Christians consider both partners to become one flesh, so do Hindus by laying down codes of conduct that ensure that husband and wife will remain faithful to each other.

But Islam opens a window of corruption of the original contract by allowing a potential second (or third, or fourth) to interfere with the contract that one man and one woman have gone into.

"THIER PANTIES WILL SET THEM FREE!"

You have to laugh don't you ? it's the only way you can keep sane.
I used to "entertain" a rather attractive pakistani girl many years ago. What really amused me was the complete lack of ability to reason with logic.

I won't go into all the gory details, however just enough to give people the picture about how moslem women are so indoctinated that they accept this state of affairs and why the moslem world is so well basically .....buggered !
Basically the story goes like this I pulled her at a nightclub (Samanthas)off Oxford St.
Brought her drink (non alcholic, she is a moslem after all), she then leans forward and says to me
"would you like to show me your place".
I didn't really want to argue with her or have a confrontation so I "reluctantly" (honest)agreed to take her home.
The first thing she says to me on arrival is "I don't do anal"
which was fine, I asked her why she mentioned it. Her reply (and I did laugh at the time)was moslem men like that, she said that because in islamic society men and women are segragated they often turned to these things and then expected it from their wives.
I said but doesn't islam punish homosexuality with death ?
Silence no response.

She then says will I convert to islam ?
After 1-2 seconds off deep thought I said to her what is so great about islam ? if we were doing this in an islamic country we would be killed,you are free here why do you want to convert me ?
Silence no response.
She tells me that she like Indian guys because we are "nicer and kinder than moslem men"
I ask her the logical question "then why do you want to convert me ?
Silence no response.
I then raise the rather interesting prospect of 4 wives ( I was in my early 20's at the time)
And she goes into a tizzy, I explain that it is allowed in islam and her prophet had between 12-14 (who would want that many mothers in law?)
Silence no response.

When I used to drop he off near her student digs she always wanted to be dropped of near an fast food place.
The reason was and I looked in her bag was she had to go to the ladies to put her veil on !!

I think I actually could have, given enough time made her turn away from islam, however time was not on my side.

I know of a moslem girl who got pregnant and had a termination and wears a full veil, I asked her do you not realise that if you lived in a moslem country you would have been killed ?
Silence no response.

However I am sure they do "think a little bit"

By the way guys the nightclub chages it's name to "Jacqulines" occaisionally and this very long and maybe boring story illistates why I believe that

"THIER PANTIES WILL SET THEM FREE!"

Regards

AI

Muslim woman - why would be part of a 'stable' of women, kept in your own stall furnished with separate hay, oats and the like be something to make a woman feel 'high class' and special? The women in a polygamous marriage are several. They are unique, only the man is one.

The idea that a man can permanently satisfy more than one woman simultaneously is comical to me. Most men can't satisfy one! It's like trying to hit a moving target with a medieval seige engine. It can't be done consistently. I suspect any statement that says all the women in a polygamous marriage are happy with the arrangement, all together and all at once, is a statement that comes from the imam or the husband.

The idea that polygamy can be just fine in some foreign place, but is not really acceptable to educated persons and to a small minority of women tells me it's not supposed to be the order of things. Why would an all-knowing god permit such arrangements when they seem to be the last choice when women have options? Why would an all knowing god allow unequal treatment of women and their needs from one place to another? Why would a merciful and all-knowing god his mouthpiece to humans some extra women? Doesn't that god realize that his mouthpiece would be held in high esteem and his life would be scrutinized? Then why would a real god allow that example of men, the best of men, to have more than the prescribed number of women, why would that man penetrate a nine-year-old when he had several wives with adult genitals? Why would that god allow the example of men to steal his daughter in law and have sex with her? Why would a perfect god change the rules for wives and sex as his example on earth indulged himself? Why would a god who created all men and women from the same dust allow men to keep women as slaves and sex partners against their will?

I have doubts about all these relationships. Any god who would sanction a 1:4 ratio between men and women forgets that 103 boys are born for every 100 girls. It doesn't add up...

First of all, thoses verses in the Quran was stated for a reason and for a certain time. There had been a peace treaty between certain tribes, and one the tribes broke the treaty, therefore not allowing the Qurashy to go to the Kabah as was supposed to be allowed every year. When this happened, they were ambushed first, and then these verses were revealed concerning this ambush and breaking of the treaty. Even when christians took over countries, they allowed other religions to live in peace, as did the muslims. The muslims taught Islam, and then if the people did not convert they were to pay a tax of protection and everyone lived in peace.

Again, concerning polygamy, most people do not have polygamous marriages, as was stated above, only about 10% marriages are this. Most muslims realize that the Quran allows and did allow this for the protection of women more than 1000 years ago when there was war and many women were left all alone in the world with noone to take care of them. This at least gave them protection within Gods law and respect and a means to be taken care of. There are situations where there may be a reason today in villages where a woman has no one to take care of her and her only means may be prostitution. I'm not saying that many muslim men do not take advantage of this situation, they do, especially Saudi. I've already stated that. What I meant by educated people is that we realize that what was necessary back than may not be necessary today. Fro instance, in the Bible, in Corinthian, (I forget the chapter, I think it's chapter 11) it talks about having a woman covering her head when she prays or prophesieth, but pastors say that doesnt pertain to today. So, what is the difference? I will get the correct verse for you. Read the Bible, pastors are constantly saying "oh this doesn't apply to today", or "that doesn't apply to today". Women in the Bible (New Testament) were not allowed to talk in church and had to be submissive to their husband, they were not allowed to work, but to teach other women, they were not allowed to usurp authority over men. There are many, many verses about the do's and don'ts of women in the Bible. Can you explain these?

Mrs. Taqiyya said:
Christian history has been spread the same way. Look at Alexand the Great (sic), Constinaple, and many others in early christian history. (emphasis mine)

Too funny!

Muslim Woman

The standard muslim way of looking at the Qur'an is that it is the eternal, unchangable, direct word of God. It is valid in all times and places. I agree with you when you say parts of it are situational and apply to specific times and places... like Allah commanding people talk quietly around Mohammed and allowing Mohammed to steal his daughter-in-law because he got a look at her hot body one afternoon. You're right... the Qur'an should be considered a historical document and large parts not appropriate for modern living.

Unfortunately you are in a tiny minority with this idea. Your fellow faithful don't agree and you don't get to dismiss things in the Qur'an as "out of date". Here's an explanation from the Southern California MSA group:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

The Qur'an ("Qor-Ann") is a Message from Allah to humanity. It was transmitted to us in a chain starting from the Almighty Himself (swt) to the angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad (saas). This message was given to the Prophet (saas) in pieces over a period spanning approximately 23 years (610 CE to 622 CE). The Prophet (saas) was 40 years old when the Qur'an began to be revealed to him, and he was 63 when the revelation was completed. The language of the original message was Arabic, but it has been translated into many other languages.

The Qur'an is one leg of two which form the basis of Islam. The second leg is the Sunnah of the Prophet (saas). What makes the Qur'an different from the Sunnah is primarily its form. Unlike the Sunnah, the Qur'an is quite literally the Word of Allah, whereas the Sunnah was inspired by Allah but the wording and actions are the Prophet's. The Qur'an has not been expressed using any human's words. Its wording is letter for letter fixed by no one but Allah.

Prophet Muhammad (saas) was the final Messenger of Allah to humanity, and therefore the Qur'an is the last Message which Allah has sent to us. Its predecessors such as the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels have all been superceded. It is an obligation - and blessing - for all who hear of the Qur'an and Islam to investigate it and evaluate it for themselves. Allah has guaranteed that He will protect the Qur'an from human tampering, and today's readers can find exact copies of it all over the world. The Qur'an of today is the same as the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad (saas).

"Islam teaches kindness, charity, goodness, helping each other, humility, humbleness, respect for each other, your elders and to each other. Islam teaches this and soo much else. It's not say that all muslims follow this doctrine. They don't, and I will be the first to admit this, but many or most christians don't either. "

muslim woman, stop your propaganda, charity stuff in muslim countries are run by christians. In egypt the only people taking care of MUSLIMS sick are christian nuns, the same nuns you gladly shoot in the back

you muslim do nothing that remotely resembles goodness

there is NO comparison between what christians charities do in the world and muslim charities.

muslim charities only help muslim people.

Alexander the great DIDN't SPREAD CHRISTIANITY AT ALL.

your 3 degrees serve you nothing, you have a master only in muslim propaganda

"Again, don't look at the minority, but look at the majority. Look at the muslim doctors, muslim teachers, muslim store clerks, muslim nurses, muslim moms, muslim dads, muslim children"

when they chant death to israel or when they celebrate 9-11?

"I'm not ignoring the central question, but trying to get you to see that I'm not any different than you. Our faith may be different, but inside we are the same. Look beyond the minority and look and focus with your heart and mind."

i am appalled by the extreme arrogance and superiority of this "being", I should know better since she's muslim.

You are DIFFERENT than us, you praise poligamy and blame other religions for crimes that are extremely lighter respect the crimes of islam and islam.

Muslims, your actions SPEAK louder than words.

muslim woman, I don't even reply to you because other people before me did it perfectly but you are the living proof that having 2-3 degrees doesn't save you from deep stupidity.

muslim woman, the bible is not a manual for every aspect of life like how to defecate and how to clean up yourself after it.

that's why some things written in the bible are not supposed to be followed like a manual like your koran.

please stop spreading muslim inventions about the bible and christianity. You wrote a collection of stupidity they are not even fun.

First of all, the Bible is Word of God that you ARE supposed follow like a manuel. How can you say otherwise? That is blasphemous. I don't have to follow the Ten Commandments because I don't have to follow the Bible like a manuel. How ludicrious.
I would like to thank at least Plague, for at least quoting from the Quran when she has something to say and at least saying something with some degree of intelligence.
I can compare Christianity and Islam, and their people. The people are the same if their moral values are the same, and you don't have to agree with me if you don't want. It's the power of American speech. At least I'm trying to get people together, have some degree of understanding, while you all are trying to spread hatred and lack of understanding. All these things come Satan. Hatred directly comes from Satan, so do tell me about christianity and how christian some of you might be and have Satan in your heart and blackness.
The Bible is supposed to be a Word Of God, for today, tomorrow and yesterday, and I've been to enough churches to know the truth in what I say, anything else is unchristianly. The Bible does and will always represent what and how we should act, just because modern people don't approve of it and are trying to explain the Bible away doesn't mean anything. The Quran is for yesterday, today and tomorrow.
I'm not praising polygamy, nor was I ever BUT trying to explain the circumstances where and when it WAS needed, but you choose not to see what I'm saying.
Don't tell me that christian history is ligh on the crim. Get real. Look at not soo long ago and how christians treated African American, and even their own women. Women could not vote, until the 50's were not even allowed to wear pants. African American's were not allowed to vote or sit anywhere near whites, or drink from the same fountain, or go to the same schools. Don't forget about slavery, good ole slavery. Last, but not lease, look at what christians did to the native americans when they did not convert to christainity, they stole their land, even so, that raped, murdered, stole their children, forced conversion and lied to steal their land, they starved them and more. Do I need to go on? I'm no condoning any wrong, it doesn't matter whether one is muslim, christian, or anything, but don't come down like your holier than thou. I know better than that.

Muslim woman - this site is Jihadwatch. It's about the jihad, sunnah, qur'an, ahadith and siratrasullah. To counter your 'Christians are just as bad' argument here is something a poster at Jihadwatch said months ago which I cut out and saved:

“In the end , the words and actions of Mohammed dictate what is a proper Muslim response just as it’s Jesus for Christians. Jesus was above all, a man of peace, while Mohammed was anything but a man of peace.

A Christian may try to use scripture to justify or incite others to violence, but because Jesus himself would not have acted in that way and the words will never attract more than a handful of listeners, like David Koresh or Jim Jones [narcissistic but charismatic sociopaths].

The opposite is true for Islam. While there may be many within the Muslim religion that want to live peacefully with their neighbors, Mohammed himself did not live that way. I’ve read the Sira and the Ahadith, so you can’t fool me. Moderate Muslims are not Muslims. Their opinions mean nothing in the nation of Islam. After all, how can one Muslim, with any authority, tell another not to do what Mohammed did himself? Mohammed, cut out moderate tongues by the example of his own life and in the canonical texts of his created religion. Islam never was and will never be a ‘religion of peace’. Mohammed himself was not a peaceful man and by the example of his own life, the most violent element in any Islamic community or society has carte blanche. I know you are doing this because it’s okay by every tenet in your religion and by the example of its sole prophet. You can’t be any more “peaceful” than, as a man, Mohammed was himself.

Muslim woman - the example you have in Mohammed forces your believers to behave badly. Those christians who behave badly are not following the teachings and example of Jesus Christ.

This is a huge difference.

Muslim woman - your example condemns you:

Bukhari:V8B76N537 “The Prophet said, ‘Allah will say, “Adam!” “I am obedient to Your orders.” Allah will say, “Bring out the people of the Fire.” “How many are the people of the Fire?” Allah will say, “Out of every thousand take out nine-hundred and ninety-nine persons.” At that time children will become hoary-headed and every pregnant female will drop her load. You will see the people as if they were drunk. Allah’s punishment will be very severe.’”

As explained the "hell fire" torture room is also in Allah's heaven, these fires kindled by Allah himself. 999 of every 1000 muslims end up in hell anyways.

If you're a muslim woman... it's even worse than 1/1000 odds:

Bukhari:V1B22N28 “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.’”

Muslim woman - why defend something that puts you in hell as a believer anyway? Drop the burden and pull your chains off. Leave it - it offers you nothing in the afterlife.

"First of all, the Bible is Word of God that you ARE supposed follow like a manuel. How can you say otherwise? That is blasphemous. I don't have to follow the Ten Commandments because I don't have to follow the Bible like a manuel. How ludicrious."

BULLSHIT

Those are the wikipedia DEFINITIONS

BIBLE= Many people who identify themselves as Christians, Muslims, or Jews regard the Bible as inspired by God yet written by a variety of imperfect men over thousands of years.

KORAN = Muslims believe the Qur'an to be the literal word of God

and the 10 commandament are a small part of the bible

so check your facts, I have checked MINE.

Christians have the church that helps interpreting the bible, and the church collectively can decide if a part of the bible is there just for narrative purpose or it's a basic trait of the creed.

You muslims believe the koran is 100% correct on everything.

I brought EVIDENCE. Now who is the stupid? who is the one talking out of his ass?

Restrain yourself from playing the bully here, the 80% of people writing here are REGULARs that knows the koran very well as well as the bible.

So you know NOTHING about other religions and probably not even of your own.

"The people are the same if their moral values are the same"

ok, the moral values are NOT the same.

"At least I'm trying to get people together, have some degree of understanding, while you all are trying to spread hatred and lack of understanding."

how NOBLE, yuo are bringing people together on LIES.

I rather have TRUTH and separation than union and LIES. But I am talking to a muslim so I should know better

"The Bible is supposed to be a Word Of God, for today, tomorrow and yesterday, and I've been to enough churches to know the truth in what I say, anything else is unchristianly. The Bible does and will always represent what and how we should act, just because modern people don't approve of it and are trying to explain the Bible away doesn't mean anything. The Quran is for yesterday, today and tomorrow."

proven to be LIES!

"Don't tell me that christian history is ligh on the crim. Get real. Look at not soo long ago and how christians treated African American, and even their own women. "

3 degree of stupidity

I don’t think anyone here is arguing that the West is a paragon of virtue or that in the past Western religious and civic institutions did not have blood on their hands. The point is that as a civilization we have learned from the past and amended our societies so that gratuitous behavior is controlled through checks and balances and are maintained by the the rule of law with the emphasis being on man made law.

Your equivalence arguments have no credibility simply because of the fact that Islamic society is incapable of amending their own society’s legal and moral structures. The reason they are unable to do this is that the laws which govern Islamic societies are not open to amendment as they are believed to be the literal word of allah.

Remember that it's mainly muslim people invading OUR lands and lecturing us and DICTATING us what to do and say, not the other way around.

Let's take a religion that doesn't have blood on his hands: Buddism . Why muslims in Thailand are killing buddist?

Are yuo suggesting that "even buddism have dark past and DESERVES to be exterminated by pious muslims"?

Give me a break. Your equivalence arguments are PATHETIC.

You are telling us islam is all pious, we haven't said that about our religions. THErefore you should back up your arguments BEFORE accusing others.

"Women could not vote, until the 50's were not even allowed to wear pants. "

there's a canton in Switzerland that granted this right (women vote) in 1990. Can we say switzerland is a country where women rights are suppressed?

NO

You said USA granted women suffrage in the 50s

Well, another LIE

States and territories of the USA (not at the federal level), one after another starting with the Wyoming Territory in 1869. The USA as a whole granted women's suffrage in 1920

not only that.

THe first countries giving this right weren't MUSLIM at all

here's the list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_suffrage

it started in 1776 (austrialia, sweden, uk, new zealand, denmark, austria etc) and to arrive to the first MUSLIM COUNTRY we have to wait til 1919 with azeirbajan then turkey in 1930 but the first ones were NON muslim countries.

"African American's were not allowed to vote or sit anywhere near whites, or drink from the same fountain, or go to the same schools. Don't forget about slavery, good ole slavery."

because what muslims are doing to black africans in darfur is something to be proud of?

slavery still exist in saudi arabia, mauritania, mali and sudan. ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES. Muslims STARTED the slave trade in africa.

Funny that the bully you are you point the finger of what whites/christians did, while MUSLIMS STILL DO IT NOWADAYS

" Last, but not lease, look at what christians did to the native americans when they did not convert to christainity, they stole their land, even so, that raped, murdered, stole their children, forced conversion and lied to steal their land, they starved them and more"

replace christians with muslims and instead of native americans put GREEKS, ARMENIANS, SERBS, BERBERS, INDIANS and you have a wider picture.

How come that someone with 3 degrees doesn't know HISTORY?

There's only one difference, native americans nowadays are citizens with equal rights while non-muslims in muslim lands are persecuted, harassed, with less rights. See copts in Egypt, christians in turkey, chaldean in iraq, not to mention christians in pakistan or afghanistan or indonesia or malaysia.

LOOK AT YOURSELF

"Do I need to go on? "

yes please, it's gymnastic time for us.

Again Plague,
Thank-you for at least having things to fall back on, and being respectful as a whole.
First of all, "Hell Fire" means Hell. What is being refered to is what will happen in the end of the days, and will happen on earth, not in heaven. There is also many references in Revelations about the end of the days coming, so this hadith is not the only one. "Hell Fire" is not a room in Heaven.
Secondly, you are right, it does say in the hadith that more women will be in the hell. I agree. I've always wished I lived in the 1800's where women weren't so gung ho on women's lib. Whether it's a christian marriage or a muslim marriage, a proper religious marriage is one where the husband is head of the household. Women today, as a whole, do not conform to proper christian marriage, or proper muslim marriage. I know many, if not most people do not agree with me, including muslims, this is my personal opinion.
Fed up, once again, you are only looking at what you want to see. Have you been to many of these countries. I have been to Pakistan, and some of my friends have been to other countries, and I was treated wonderful in Pakistan, and my friends (who are christian) were treated like gold in the countries that they visited.
I do know history, and if you want we can go back and forth about the atrocities of both muslims and christians. Don't tell me that US has made amends, some of these things that have happened was not that long ago. There have been no amends for the slaves, nor the Japanese-Americans, nor the Native Americans. The Native Americans live in horid squalor on reservations and suffer from depressions, poverty, and many other ailments. I for one have already stated that I DO NOT condone anything wrong, whether it's muslims or christians. I DO NOT condone terrorism, or suicide bombing, or murdering of innocent people. Again, whether you want to believe this yourself or not, most muslims do not condone this act. Terrorism is not condoned in the Quran.
Women may have started having some right back in the 1800's, but they legally did not have the right to vote in elections until the middle 1900's. My grandmother did not have the right to vote. There's a difference between women sufferage, and a right to vote in an election. Women's rights even started in England in the 1800's.
You are defaming Islam, and I have a right to defend. Why is that being a bully? You are the one name-calling, not me. So, who's the bully. Presenting my opinion does not mean being a bully, unless I'm pushing my views down your throat, which I'm not. There is no superiority coming from me, but is coming from you. In the dictionary, you fit a closer description to a bully, not me.
You talk about muslims invading "our land". Who's land does this belong to anyway??? It originally belonged to the native americans, and we invaded their land. Immigrants have been coming to this country for a very long, and belongs to us all. In this day and age, we live in a melting pot, and we live everywhere. It doesn't matter what religion you are or not. The world belongs to us all.
The Wikapedia can define the Bible any way it wishes, but ask any christian, and they WILL NOT say that the Bible was written by imperfect people. How can the Bible be written by imperfect people if they were written in the old testament by Prophets, and the new testament by Jesus and his disciples and apostles. The disciples were filled with the holy spirit and nothing came out of their mouth that was not inspired by God.
Again, there is not bullying being done on my end, no name-calling or put-downs. I do know my religion and christianity because I converted and was once a very religous christian who knows alot about the Bible. I can hear the outrage coming now. No one has the right to even begin saying that I was not a religous christian if I converted, because noone knows me. 3 out of 4 women are the ones converting to Islam. I wonder why?
Also, you are right christianity is based on Jesus's teaching, I cannot nor will deny that, because that is the truth. Also, on the other hand, Islam is based on Muhammeds teachings, which is alo good. I know you don't believe me, and that's OK. I will bring verses from the Quran that show the good moral values that Islam trys to instill. One should not look at the people to see the truth in the religion because most people whether christian or muslim do not adher to their religion. Look at the moral values in western socity, not very christianly, and my children are going to public schools, so I see what is happening. Look at the divorce rate, the affair rate, teenage sex, drugs, suicide has sky-rocketed in teenagers, look at pre-marital sex, gays & lesbianism, look at racism, hatred and intolerance. Yes, this is not only in christian countries, which is my point exactly, who really adhers to their religion today? One needs to look at the basic tenets, and yes the "Ten Commandments" is as basic and a big part of christianity as you can get.
I can point out what people think is the good and bad in both the Quran and the Bible, can you? At least, I can see both sides, you on the other hand is blinded by your hatred.

Here's a quickie question: if you were a woman, which would you choose, to be the second wife of a man, and thus enjoy a plethora of rights, or a 'one-nighter', something to be used a couple o times like a kleenex, and then discarded? Think about it, then come back and we'll talk about it, 'k? :)

The beauty of polygamy is that it addresses a social dilemma in a very pragmatic way. The actual 'available' female to male ratio is much higher. Its a fact that there is an alarmingly high rate of unmarried women compared to men. And unlike the hypocrites here, who like to talk by day and bang by night, Islam gives a permanent solution to this problem. The fact that a woman may not accept a second wife for her husband does not make the solution impractical. Of course, such a reaction is understandable, but I think if you consider the alternatives, then it's probably not that bad, is it, eh?

Muslim Woman,

We Christians do respect the Bible, but there are enormous differences between the way we take the Bible and Muslims take the Coran. Nowhere in the world there is the command that we have to worship towards a certain stone or city, or that we have to read the Bible in a certain language.

For us the spirit is important, while for Muslims the letter is more important.

There fore our faculty for reasoning remains open and we can question principles that are against our conscience instead of following them blindly. Do you think polygamy is in your favor? Poligamy is an attack against the nuclear family. It is a civilizational regress.
Pligamy withdraws the right of equal status for both partners since it privileges the husband to break the vow of loyalty towards his wife, thereby breaking the original bond of marriage.

Christians consider both partners to become one flesh, so do Hindus by laying down codes of conduct that ensure that husband and wife will remain faithful to each other.

But Islam opens a window of corruption of the original contract by allowing a potential second (or third, or fourth) to interfere with the contract that one man and one woman have gone into.

Please forgive the people in this site who are being rude to you. You are welcome here.

Americaningermany = Bigot and hypocrite of the worst kind.
Hey 'enlightened one', if you can't say anything nice, then go join bush; didn't your mom teach you that? Oh, wait, you already have. Figures...
Back to the topic. Practice what you preach, americaningermany, what the heck are you doing in Iraq? Why don't you just go quietly home? Hmmm? Oil is too addicting, isn't it? ;)

If what the poster says about the 'muslim' girl in the club is true, then Islam is innocent of her kind. So don't go showing us some lost soul as an example of Islam, ignoramus. Shows your level of knowledge, or lack thereof.

Unfortunately you took me literally. But it's ok, seeing your level of conversation, I'm not surprised. I mean, you're so full of it, nothing I say will change your mind.
Its pretty obvious who's an idiot, and on his high horse!
Keep repeating the lies, Americaningermany. Till you believe yourself. Oh, and nice to see you talk about sickos, seeing its the good old US of A which allows all sorts of perversions, you pervert ;).
Hypocrite. Peace.

The truth is that all of you are just repeating well known fallacies and distortions that the enemies of peace keep spreading. Nothing new there. Now what *will* be new is someone with half a brain who actually knows what he's talking about. Not some demented bigot (yes YOU! ;)) on this forum who throws in a few insults just for kicks.
Honestly guys, do you really believe the drivel being said here?! For one moment activate that frontal lobe, think! Will anyone even DREAM of converting to a religion which has all this ghastly stuff you claim?? Are you people insane? Or just haters, racists, and bigots?? (probably the latter, IMHO)

LOL

Geez. These muslim nuts sure are brainwashed, aren't they? Even when you present them with tons of facts, they still don't believe it.

I really don't know how anybody can read about Mo the Baby Raper's life (may piss be upon him) and want to get into the islam cult. That sick excuse for a human being was so blatantly discusting.

I really feel sorry for those brainwashed idiots...

Muslim woman - I'm not here to try and convert you to some other belief system. But if you insist on comparing Christianity to Islam... you have to compare the teachings, sayings and actions of Jesus to the teachings, sayings and actions of Mohammed.

Mohammed was about jihad, booty, and women's booties....

Jesus was about relationship, reconciliation and giving of self.

There is no comparison. Mohammed as portrayed in the Bukhari ahadith and in his Sunnah and in the anecdotes of the canonical Sira, Mohammed's biography, was a thief, conspirator, liar, rapist, murderer, cult leader a la Charles Manson, and an idiot, to be honest. He is not worthy of respect nor should he be used as an example of holy behavior. So what if he said, "pay the poor tax", treat other Muslims well... Pagans said that and more.

Mohammed broke every one of the Ten Commandments. He rejected the Golden Rule. He was plain evil.
A few platitudes spinkled into the Qur'an don't make his alter ego, Allah any better. They are both evil manifestations of Mohammed.

MEMO

TO: Muslim woman and Kalam

FROM: Voltaire

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

Bukhari:V8B76N537 “The Prophet said, ‘Allah will say, “Adam!” “I am obedient to Your orders.” Allah will say, “Bring out the people of the Fire.” “How many are the people of the Fire?” Allah will say, “Out of every thousand take out nine-hundred and ninety-nine persons.” At that time children will become hoary-headed and every pregnant female will drop her load. You will see the people as if they were drunk. Allah’s punishment will be very severe.’”

Muslim woman - this is talking about Allah's punishment. "People of the fire" means those consigned to Hell. Permanently. That's 999 out of 1,000.

This is nothing but a threat Mohammed used to eat into the minds of his followers. Allah is little more than 'the monster in the closet' on many occassions.

Including the time after Mohammed was found banging the Coptic maid Mariam while his wife was sent out on a false pretense. The wives got really pissed off at Mohammed. He was scared of the fallout. So Allah came to his rescue and put a piece of scripture in the Qur'an to deal with this very specific situation... again, how is the Qur'an 'eternal' when you have junk like this in it? It applies only to Mohammed and his problem with wives. And it introduces the idea that men can "disolve their oaths" when they get an erection. I'd like to think that, since I'm a man and like my hard-ons too... but the idea that god says it's okay to break vows is bullshit!

Surah 66. Banning, Prohibition

1. O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

2. Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths (in some cases): and Allah is your Protector, and He is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

3. When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and Allah made it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."

4. If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe,- and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.

5. It may be, if he divorced you (all), that Allah will give him in exchange consorts better than you,- who submit (their wills), who believe, who are devout, who turn to Allah in repentance, who worship (in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast,- previously married or virgins.

This is a direct threat from allah that specific wives in a specific situation 1400 years ago should "shut up" or Allah himself would replace them.

What kind of god would do that? What kind of god would interfere in a man's soap opera drama?

Hey americaningermany.... I live in the middle of the United States where we had many Germans settle the region in the 1830's and 40's... my wife and I went to a town founded as a kind of German uptopian idea in the late 1830's and spent the night in a B & B. Beautiful river town. They settled in that place because it reminded them of the Rhine river valley. We got up the next day and went to the wineries in town... went to one where people could sit out under the vine trellises and listen to the waltzes on an accordian. Old people and children danced, the rest of us ate Thuringer and cheeses with our white wines and sat out in the brick courtyards of the winery and enjoyed a beautiful moment of life for a while.

It occurred to me that under sharia none of it could happen: no wine, no music, no men and women touching while dancing. No women laughing. No smiles from my pretty wife, since her face would be hidden under a veil as if it were something sinful.

Pathetic really. I pray for muslims, especially the young girls, since I have two of them. They are the first victims of Submission and always suffer the worst. God help them.

I looked them up americaningermany. Anything against art of that nature is fucked in the head & heart.

"Fed up, once again, you are only looking at what you want to see. Have you been to many of these countries. I have been to Pakistan, and some of my friends have been to other countries, and I was treated wonderful in Pakistan, and my friends (who are christian) were treated like gold in the countries that they visited."

pakistanis come to our countries and they murder their daughters if they behave as westerners, which only means, going around not like ghosts, interact with wester guys and possibly wanting to have a family with them to escape muslim barbarism.

we have moroccan and egyptian embassies SCREAMING at muslim women that want to marry western guys saying "you cannot marry a dirty CHRISTIAN, you are a dirty person yourself" and they deny those women the bureacratic papers to be able to marry.

I'd rather die than travelling in those barbaric countries, where they GET my money as tourist, make me their fake smiles and call me dirty christian when I turn my back.

"Don't tell me that US has made amends, some of these things that have happened was not that long ago. There have been no amends for the slaves, nor the Japanese-Americans, nor the Native Americans. "

yes they have, they are CALLED REPARATIONS.

"I for one have already stated that I DO NOT condone anything wrong, whether it's muslims or christians. I DO NOT condone terrorism, or suicide bombing, or murdering of innocent people. Again, whether you want to believe this yourself or not, most muslims do not condone this act. Terrorism is not condoned in the Quran."

I heard those stories. Problem is that they condone when TV camera is ON. When it's HIDDEN, they say it's ok to murder jews with suicide bombers.

"You are defaming Islam"

I am stating simple TRUE FACTS taken from today's newswires.

If telling the truth for you is defaming islam, you are living proof that muslims have a distorted view of reality adn the truth

"Presenting my opinion does not mean being a bully, unless I'm pushing my views down your throat, which I'm not. There is no superiority coming from me, but is coming from you."

that's the point, I am presenting FACTS, DEFINITIONS from encyclopedia, therefore quoting those it's simply stating FACTS and DEFINITIONS. IT cannot be considered being a bully.

Otherwise passing opinions as FACTS, that's a lie, it's misleading. It's passing one thing for another. It's being a bully about the group you belong to.

"You talk about muslims invading "our land". Who's land does this belong to anyway??? It originally belonged to the native americans, and we invaded their land. "

stop assuming we are all talking about america, I am from EUROPE and sorry for you EUROPE never BELONGED TO MUSLIMS.

Secondly. You always play this card of the native americans (as the average muslim gives a shit about anybody else that's not muslim), what about the NATIVE PEOPLE of lands muslim conquered?

The arab empire was spread with violence, murder, and I don't remember any muslim leader apologising for it.

On the contrary, in the western world, there's MONTHS AND MONTHS of history classes to explain how the white men are bad for what we have done to native americans and africans.

now, WHERE ARE THE MUSLIM EXCUSES for THEIR CRIMES?

"In this day and age, we live in a melting pot, and we live everywhere. It doesn't matter what religion you are or not. The world belongs to us all."

then you have a VALID explanation on why ALL THE MUSLIM COMMUNITIES IN EVERY EU country are ASKING FOR SHARIA and they want to consider their ghettos as MUSLIM LANDS.

I am eager to read your reply on this.

"The Wikapedia can define the Bible any way it wishes, but ask any christian, and they WILL NOT say that the Bible was written by imperfect people. "

unlike ISLAM, christianity is not made by the single christian. We have a HIGHER AUTHORITY that takes care of drawing the lines.

Christianity is an ORGANIZED RELIGION, there is NO ANARCHY, and when there is dissonance sometimes, we split, sometimes there's heresy.

The gospels are written by men, you won't find any christian with a sane brain telling you Marc or John are perfect men to imitate. Our prophets are not ROLE MODELS like your PROPHET.

"How can the Bible be written by imperfect people if they were written in the old testament by Prophets, and the new testament by Jesus and his disciples and apostles. "

Jesus never wrote the bible.

The concept of PERFECTION is an islamic stupidity. You believe your child molesting prophet is perfect, christians KNOW BETTER

"I do know my religion and christianity because I converted and was once a very religous christian who knows alot about the Bible. "

I have just shown you all your mistakes. Your opinion doesn't make it a fact. YOU are simply ignorant of christianity. No wonder you turned into islam, usually, the people mentally unstable and insecure need a totalitarian cult that requires total subjogation.

There is no wonder in knowing you once were a christian. Many christians don't know jack shit about their religion. Just reading the bible doesn't mean anything. The bible as all other holy books needs understanding, otherwise it's a very obscure book. It's a book to handle with care, because it can be misinterpreted. And that's what happened to you.

If you just google "imperfect men" and bible you come out with 10,000 pages where it's explained WHY the bible is defined like that.

What ignorant christians think of it, is none of my concern.

Also, the church organized Vatican Councils I & II where a lot of things have been stated as well as other events where the pope issues special papers. One has to keep up with that, to see where and how the church UPDATE itself for times. Being in Italy, those stuff have so much resonance that we give for granted it's worldwide known stuff, but many many many christians ignore those.

So reading the bible means not much. Actually it means NOTHING.

"No one has the right to even begin saying that I was not a religous christian if I converted, because noone knows me. 3 out of 4 women are the ones converting to Islam. I wonder why?"

it's a brainwashing cult very effective, it tells you what to eat, how to clean your butt, what to believe, how to work. Other religions are too soft, they actually leave you the free will to DECIDE and (oh, the HORROR) eventually do wrong things, but give you another chance. There's no denying that a woman in islam is in a protected enviroment, unable to do anything without someone else's permission, and as stupid as it sounds, some women like it.

Mentally weak people are attracked to it. Some weak women that have serious guilt complex are attracted to it.

There are also women that likes to be beaten up, so they feel loved and appreciated.

Sick minds work that way. Why women went into submission of DAvid Koresh, why people go into submission of scientology? why there are people joining cults that preach suicide? Why people join satanism and are victims of rituals?

"Also, on the other hand, Islam is based on Muhammeds teachings, which is alo good. I know you don't believe me, and that's OK."

being obsessed with sex is not a good teaching. I am not absolutely a fan of the "turn the other cheek" philosophy, however I have to admit that any prophet/deity that wants to spread positivity is not very credible if he indulges in orges of sex.

There are detailed description of the incredible penis muhammad had. I ask, was that NECESSARY for spiritual ACHIEVEMENT?

Do you have similar stories on the sexual adventures of jesus, Buddah?

NO, there must be a reason.

Also being a WARLORD. Why Buddah, Jesus didn't have any army? didn't murder anybody?

because it gives CREDIBILITY to their MESSAGE. If their message had to be peace. Otherwise muhammed message was about DOMINATION, SUBMISSION, LOOTING etc etc

It seems to me so crystal clear that I feel even stupid in writing it.

Why we have no record of the sexual activity of ZOROASTER? why no record of his land conquests?

"Look at the divorce rate, the affair rate, teenage sex, drugs, suicide has sky-rocketed in teenagers, look at pre-marital sex, gays & lesbianism, look at racism, hatred and intolerance. Yes, this is not only in christian countries, which is my point exactly, who really adhers to their religion today? "

LOL, you talk of teenage sex, what is worse, 2 kids at 15 having sex or a old man having sex with 9 years old?

Suicide has a very high rate in turkey too because girls are forced to suicide after they dishonored the family.

racism hatred and intolerance are spread mainly from pious muslims. We are taught from DAY ONE of our lives that being RACIST is wrong. On the other hand muslims are OK with their supremacist religion.

You are so ignorant that i am shocked.

Gay and lesbianism. Do you know that homosexuality existed millennia ago in greece and ancient rome?

I fail to see how homosexuality is a threat to humanity. Sorry, it's just your HOMOPHOBIA TALKING. WHat do you suggest? let's HANG them?

"Here's a quickie question: if you were a woman, which would you choose, to be the second wife of a man, and thus enjoy a plethora of rights, or a 'one-nighter', something to be used a couple o times like a kleenex, and then discarded? Think about it, then come back and we'll talk about it, 'k? :)"

if the men is a stupid backward caveman like yourself, not even ONE NIGHT, not even ONE MINUTE

"The beauty of polygamy is that it addresses a social dilemma in a very pragmatic way. The actual 'available' female to male ratio is much higher. Its a fact that there is an alarmingly high rate of unmarried women compared to men. And unlike the hypocrites here, who like to talk by day and bang by night, Islam gives a permanent solution to this problem. "

kalam, please check your brain before writing.

The actual male/female ration WORLDWIDE is the following

a range of "normal" sex ratios at birth of between 103 to 107 boys per 100 girls has been observed in different societies, and among different ethnic and racial groups within a given society, though more extreme ratios documented in some populations should be attributed rather more to cultural preferences than to biological variation in the propensity to bear boys or girls

----------------------------

Boo hoo, there are more MALES than FEMALES, does that mean that I can have 2 stupid boys like yourself at the same time?

if someone is still reading this page.

americaningermany, I appreaciate your post, but when a troll like kamal is appearing, it just takes one SECOND to shut him up.

He says there are MORE women than MEN?

easy number to find on the internet.

Now I can't wait for his reply about what to do when MEN outnumber women.

Fed Up - we do have some places in the world where a woman has two men or more in marriage:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Polyandry.html

It's pretty rare.

sorry - here's one which refers to the human arrangement. The previous link was on animals not human.

http://www.umanitoba.ca/anthropology/tutor/marriage/polyandry.html

I knew about it.

But those are peaceful BUDDIST!

big difference.

Fed Up... I've noticed a tendency of the Muslims on this site to bluster and state opinions and wishes as facts. These things, like the ratio of female:male live births in the world can be easily found, I agree.

Reasoning with them isn't working very well. I like to try sometimes so that I practice and so I have answers to give to non-muslims when I bring these things up. It's about practice when talking to people in the free world who may listen and adjust their ideas to the reality of the threat that I'm interested in. I don't think anything short of utter defeat and an isolation from all that the free world offers will really change the bulk of the muslim world. Their world view and agenda has to be knocked into the dirt before they'll reconsider. They are like the rest of us - stubborn. If we don't force them they'll never change their ideas.

Plague, if reasoning doesn't work ( = presenting with undisputable FACTS) nothing will. Forcing makes no sense. As confirmed by many missionaries, it would be easy to extort conversion from (mostly mentally deficient muslims) in poor muslim countries, just by giving them health care or food, after all, if they have been brainwashed once, they can be brainwashed twice.

However, we must not accept cheap christians, cheap buddist, cheap hindu etc.

I am all for "let them die in their own stupidity".

As I said many times, just by boycotting totally their countries, products, even avoiding conversation to them, it's like killing them.

Of course together with dropping the aid customs and the oil money.

Does it matter that we convince the nazis they were wrong? NO

Do you think the convicted satanists are convinced to give up satanism? NO, they are simply LOCKED.

Same with the muslims.

You cannot expect something out of people with an IQ lower than 80.

The average non-muslim you are talking to is einstein compared to people like naseem or kamal or whatever. I am asking, is it necessary to welcome people like those as cheap converts? I say no. They deserve their shitty life.

One thing is the people who experience it first hand and DECIDE to leave the cult like the hijacker of turkish airlines, but I guess this guy is a genius compared to the average muslim.

We are not stubborn, we have EVIDENCE on our side.

StillFedUp - I agree.

Thanks to all the bigots and racists on this forum. You've shown to everybody that you are no better than some of the very people you claim to be better than. Your words reek of lies, inaccuracies and distortions. It's ok, keep repeating your disgusting and shameful lies. It seems to make you feel better about yourselves. Although in reality, I'm sure your self-esteem and self-worth is ZERO! What do YOU live for? Sex? Money? What is your life worth?
Sit there and type away, little liar. Feel smug and satisfied. But you will NEVER, EVER blot out the TRUTH and LIGHT of Islam!
I do not care for the barrage of garbage and lies that some of you will surely dispense. It's only a reflection of your sad and diseased hearts.
Stop and think before you trash talk a religion which you know NOTHING about! The thousands and thousands of Western WOMEN who are embracing Islam daily have given this great religion much thought before conversion.
And that's much more than I can say for your sorry lives...

First of all, ApostateIslam, IF that is a true story, how sad for both of you. First of all, she would be a minority, a muslim by name only. Secondly, how many christian women have you picked up in a bar? Are christian women supposed to be in bars? I don't think so. Are chrstian women supposed to be wearing mini skirts? I don't think so. Are christian women supposed to be having sex before marriage, I don't think so. Must I go on??

Rocky, thank-you for being so kind and apologizing for the others and welcoming me. May God bless you. I personally disagree with you about christains being able to queston their principles. Catholics are not allowed to question their principles, nor are they allowed to ask questions, they have to just accept what is and be quiet. They themselves have many rituals, not unlike Islam. It's only the Protestants that don't adher to rituals and have the right to ask questions. In Islam, we are allowed to question, and it's our obligation and duty to ask questions and to find the answers on our own. We are not allowed to follow blindly.
You people don't understand, that just like the Bible, the Quran is written historically, and what was necessarily allowed today may not be in the best interest of todays marriage. Polygamy was necessary back than, and maybe, instances, may be necessary today, but in rare cases. I personally do not agree with polygamy, not do I know ANY muslim that agrees with this. We understand that the Quran is not only a way of life for us concerning moral values, but a look at history, just like the Bible. Most christian women do not adher to what the Bible says concerning how women should act, they say "oh, that's history, that has no place here today". Now that doesn't make sense if they can say that, then condemn us for the same thing.

"being obsessed with sex is not a good teaching. I am not absolutely a fan of the "turn the other cheek" philosophy, however I have to admit that any prophet/deity that wants to spread positivity is not very credible if he indulges in orges of sex.

There are detailed description of the incredible penis muhammad had. I ask, was that NECESSARY for spiritual ACHIEVEMENT?" ::

I ask you, where in The Quran have you found this? Where in the Islamic stories have you found this? Please tell me. I have never come across this. I'm interested in your answer.

"yes they have, they are CALLED REPARATIONS":

Where are the reparations for the native americans, they are not seeing it? Are you calling reparations the reservations they live on? I hope not! Where are the reparations for slavery? The African Americans are still fighting that one! Where are the reparations for the Japanese-Americans that were made to live like cattle, supposidly for their protection. Again, I don't see this. It's only the JEWS who got REPARATIONS, it's called Isreal.

"pakistanis come to our countries and they murder their daughters if they behave as westerners, which only means, going around not like ghosts, interact with wester guys and possibly wanting to have a family with them to escape muslim barbarism.

we have moroccan and egyptian embassies SCREAMING at muslim women that want to marry western guys saying "you cannot marry a dirty CHRISTIAN, you are a dirty person yourself" and they deny those women the bureacratic papers to be able to marry":

How many pakistani families do you know, and how many have murdered their daughters? Don't go around talking with your mouth unless you have seen this with your own eyes. Again, have you been to these embassies, all of them, amazing. You manage to talk about things you have no personal knowledge of. How can intelligent people believe everything on the news? They are mostly one-sided, and they even admit that, depending on who's running the show and their own personal views.

Ask any SANE christian and they will say the Bible is perfect, then they will haul you off to hell. I've been to many, many churches, and they all preach the same thing, the perfection of the Bible. All Prophets are perfect, like Moses, Enos, Essua, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Jonah, the list is endless. I said the Prophets were perfect, I never said the disciples were, I said that what they said and did was inspired by God through the Holy Gost. Of course Jesus never wrote the Bible, everyone knows that, that doesn't even need to be mentioned. "Ignorant christians", why, because they believe in something and you don't? The Bible means everything, and you would know if you have read the Bible. For christians, the Bible is THE way of LIFE.
Again, don't tell me about Islam spreading by the sword, read your own christian history, and you will find the same. Stop being the hypocrite and open your eyes to your own history.

Fedup, you don't know why these women are converting to Islam, and to say these women have issues is a pretty pathetic excuse for saying you don't know why. You can't explain, so it must be because they have issues, or are weak, or don't know any better. Now that's a lame excuse, if I've ever hear one. Don't talk to me about muslim men abusing their wifes when there is soo much abuse going on here between husband and wife, concerning christians. That's why there are shelters for abused women in America, why, because it's prominent. So, don't get holier than thou with me, please. I know better.

Yes, I know it existed then, it also existed before then in the Bible. Sodom and Gomora. Ring a bell? They were destoyed. I personally don't have a problem with gays and lesbians, it's between God and them, but in America, it's field day for them, gay marriage, mardi gra is famous for gays and lesbians, they are constantly marching and forcing their life style down our throats and trying to change Gods law to suit them.

Also, one can give evidence credence to anything we like. You can give creditbility to your side and I can give credibility to my side. It's so sad that you people believe everything you see instead of trying to find the truth. Now finding the truth is true spiritual freedom, you on the other hand have shackles on and don't even realize it. Open YOUR eyes to the truth!!

Muslimwoman,

"First of all, ApostateIslam, IF that is a true story, how sad for both of you. First of all, she would be a minority, a muslim by name only. Secondly, how many christian women have you picked up in a bar? Are christian women supposed to be in bars? I don't think so. Are chrstian women supposed to be wearing mini skirts? I don't think so. Are christian women supposed to be having sex before marriage, I don't think so. Must I go on??"

1/it is a true story
2/why is it sad ?
would it have been better if I had converted to islam, "beaten her" as proscribed in the koran, taken another wife or maybe kust said tilak 3 times ?
3/ I have never picked up a christian woman in a bar.
4/sex outside of marriage is perfectly ok for moslem men as long as the woman is not moslem, consent is irrelevant, rape is permitted (right hand possesions etc)

You know the only probem with moslems claiming that islam is so perfect is the word "results"

Where are they?
Why is it that moslems are so keen to run from moslem countries to non moslem ones ?

Why are your economies in such a shambles ?
Why do you spend so little money on education and so much on weapons ?
Why do you have to travel to non moslem countries for education ?

Try to google the following words
"arab human development report" it is available in PDF it is dire reading indeed.

You pakistanies can kiss arab arse all you want but gues what the arabs will always hate you.

Now on to the interesting subject of moslem girls in the west.
They can wear their stupid veils if they wish, however they are free not to if they wish.
It is UK/infidel law that protects them not sharia law.

You may think that moslems are more virtuos than us infidels, however you are not, you just hide it better.
Criticise the UK/west all you want the mere fact you choose to live in a non moslem country proves you are a hypocrite.
And lastly
"Take them off, your panties will set you free, as I said earlier the club is called Samanthas/Jaquelins and it is just off Oxford St,

Regards
AI

PS
American in the army what makes you think I am "strange"

kalam, still no words on how the women are more than MEN when the ratio shows the opposite?

oh you can reply only with your "supremacist" religion.

I see, bye, hitler, and I apologise to hitler for matching is name with koranimals

"Are christian women supposed to be in bars? I don't think so. Are chrstian women supposed to be wearing mini skirts? I don't think so. Are christian women supposed to be having sex before marriage, I don't think so. Must I go on??"

what kind of victorian puritanism have you experienced when you were a christian.

never heard about the motto "don't judge a person by his clothing?"

What acid bitch you are.

You were probably one of those repressed bible thumpers lecturing everybody about morality...

It's not a loss that you turned to the fascist religion.

"Catholics are not allowed to question their principles, nor are they allowed to ask questions, they have to just accept what is and be quiet. "

pretty pathetic to make up false stories about a religion you don't know anything about...

"In Islam, we are allowed to question, and it's our obligation and duty to ask questions and to find the answers on our own. We are not allowed to follow blindly. "

all the retards in pakistan protesting the pope, not only they didn't understand german, latin or english, but they are probably illiterate too.

So much for "not follow blindly" stuff

"I ask you, where in The Quran have you found this? Where in the Islamic stories have you found this? Please tell me. I have never come across this. I'm interested in your answer."

that's because you know nothing about anything

**********************************
Bukhari,Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:

“Prophet was given the strength (sexual) of thirty men”.

Apostle could make love (continuously) to all his wives (9 to 11) in one night.

Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:

"The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number. Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)."

Bukhari,Volume 7, Book 62, Number 6:

The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night

Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 5, Number 270:

Aisha said, "I scented Allah's Apostle and he went round (had sexual intercourse with) all his wives."
****************************************

I know it's the hadith and not Koran, but still, it's there.

"Where are the reparations for the native americans, they are not seeing it? Are you calling reparations the reservations they live on? I hope not! "

where are the reparations given to locals by the arabian conquest? are you calling reparations the dhimmi status non-muslims live under? I hope not.

As for reparations for slavery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slavery

look at point

2.1 to 2.4

Plus, I know that in USA there are special laws to favour minorities (and black people) entering universities and job applications.

Which is surely more compared to what muslim countries do with minorities.

"Where are the reparations for the Japanese-Americans that were made to live like cattle, supposidly for their protection."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#Compensation_and_reparations

I collected this informations even if USA is not my country. I suppose an honest american (not an ignorant mentally subjugated person like yourself) surely knows better about this.

however, you are looking pretty stupid, in pointing the finger to what americans have not done yet or have not done properly, you seem not to care to what islam never did and will NEVER do.

"It's only the JEWS who got REPARATIONS, it's called Isreal."

oh yes, and the jews are bad people that just needed to be exterminate, right?

Compliments, you are in full muslim mentally brainwashed mode.

But anyway, beside your anti-semite venom the reparations for the jews wasn't israel (or isreal as you call it) but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_reparations

I learnt this when I was 10.

What kind of degrees you took (allegedly)?

degree in taqquia
degree in brainwashing

"How many pakistani families do you know, and how many have murdered their daughters? Don't go around talking with your mouth unless you have seen this with your own eyes. "

many and the local paki community when INTERVIEWED, they said it was right that the father killed the girl because she wasn't a good muslim.

"Again, have you been to these embassies, all of them, amazing. "

THOSE muslim women (evidently less brainwashed than yourself) came out in the light, asking for HELP to authorities, because as it was likely to think, those embassies were acting AGAINST THE LAW.

Pretty stupid for you to think it's all things staged up.

I remind you that the practice of manipulation and staging fake deaths to blame the jews, is a muslim speciality.

"Ask any SANE christian and they will say the Bible is perfect, then they will haul you off to hell. I've been to many, many churches, and they all preach the same thing, the perfection of the Bible."

that's in your backward rural area, where acid puritan women judge people by the lenght of their skirt.

"All Prophets are perfect, like Moses, Enos, Essua, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Jonah, the list is endless."

that is still in your backward rural area.

Listen, backward acid granny, I live in italy (LAND OF THE VATICAN, ok?) and we never heard that stuff.

Nobody ever asked anybody to "imitate" moses perfection.

Unfortunately for you, your folkish knowledge of christianity has something to do with backwardness, bigotry, being a zealot and your only aim is to raise yourself above the other due to a self-proclaimed higher morality.

According to this islam being a supremacist religion that's all about pointing the finger to supposed non-morality it's a better religion for you.

Christianity is too open, generous and forgiving for a repressed like yourself.

The inital description of the Bible I posted talks about "written by imperfect men". Since some prophets did take part in the writing of the bible, see how easily your bullshits are dismissed.

It's written by imperfect men, some of which are prophets.

Nobody said that jesus wrote the bible?

strange, you wrote it earlier

"How can the Bible be written by imperfect people if they were written in the old testament by Prophets, and the new testament by Jesus "

""Ignorant christians", why, because they believe in something and you don't?"

no, because you are showing OVER AND OVER, that you know nothing about hystory, religion, bible and life.

And now you are pretty stupid, you say 2 things that just contradicts etch other

"The Bible means everything, and you would know if you have read the Bible. For christians, the Bible is THE way of LIFE.
Again, don't tell me about Islam spreading by the sword, read your own christian history, and you will find the same. Stop being the hypocrite and open your eyes to your own history."

so if the bible is a way of life and christianity is spread by the sword, it means that CURRENTLY there are wars all over the world, with missionaries and nuns murdering people left and right and converting them

Thanks for proving what a low idiot you are.

I see just islam army murdering everybody including jews, christians, hindu, buddist, zoroastrians, bahai etc

And little repressed under meds, tell me about the army jesus had, and tell me how many militias jesus had and how many lands he conquered with such militias.

Then repeat after me "I don't know hystory" ad nauseam

"Fedup, you don't know why these women are converting to Islam, and to say these women have issues is a pretty pathetic excuse for saying you don't know why. You can't explain, so it must be because they have issues, or are weak, or don't know any better. "

Not at all. It's the same psychological mindset that drives women into the arms of wrong men.

Why there are women that are "serial abused"? They have the ability to select semi-willingly men that beat them up.

Same thing with children that wants to stay with the abusive nanny even when she's proved to be abusive.

Same thing with the austrian girl that had nothing bad to say about the man who kept her captive for 10 years.

It's a form of stockholm syndrome and many doctors wrote about it.

The English author Fay Weldon has noted that “For women, there is something sexually very alluring about submission.” And as Hedegaard dryly notes, if submission is what many women seek, the feminized western men are boring compared to desert sheikhs who won’t allow you to go outside without permission.

Basically todays' women are required to be educated, to be able to work and at the same time to take care of family duties.

It's hard. It is a lot easier when your only duty in life is to be a sperm holder and take care of the home.

Even easier in a poligamous relationship... more people are taking care of the house.

A normal woman in today's world has to face TESTS OVER TESTS, pass exams at school, then find your job, being twice as good as a man to be deluded with a monetary reward that's lower than a man. In this path, the woman can do wrong, like selecting the wrong class, selecting the wrong job, selecting the wrong man.

Regardless if all this is worty or not, it's great that women HAVE a chance.

The muslim woman instead don't have to use her brain to do anything. The umma rules everything, the imam orders and the man commands.

Basically at the end of the day she can proudly say to herself "I have done everything good". Of course, anybody else BUT her is in charge of her life.

This mindset is easier to handle for weak people or people without any ability except breeding. People that have no ambitions, no creativity, no aim, no thinking, no will, JUST they love the idea to be SUBMITTED.

There is the only "reward" that is to be able to look at other non-muslim women and call them whores by the lenght of their skirt, because being modest for whatever that means is their only pride.

This is being very weak minded.

A beautiful woman can find out the cure for cancer and you stupid muslims would say only "her skirt is too short".

This is a 7th century mindset that's pathetic.

"Don't talk to me about muslim men abusing their wifes when there is soo much abuse going on here between husband and wife, concerning christians."

I know you were going on with your written stupidity.

Has any of the christian (or western) men said "I am beating you because God is ok with it, or because jesus taught me to do it?"

The backward mentality in islam allows muslim women to be considered with half a brain, and reading your posts I cannot say I disagree...

"That's why there are shelters for abused women in America, why, because it's prominent. "

that's why there are no shelters for abused women in the muslim world, because abusing the women is allowed in islam...

"Yes, I know it existed then, it also existed before then in the Bible. Sodom and Gomora. Ring a bell? They were destoyed. "

even eating the heart of your fighting enemy was popular back 2000-3000 years ago and drinking his blood, but part of humanity has evolved.

You muslims are still 2000-3000 years beyond civilization.

"I personally don't have a problem with gays and lesbians, it's between God and them, but in America, it's field day for them, gay marriage, mardi gra is famous for gays and lesbians, they are constantly marching and forcing their life style down our throats and trying to change Gods law to suit them."

it's more disturbing to me that the muslims are showing down our throats their superiority and supremacism

I suppose gays are a very low percentage in the population and they don't breed like rats like you muslims, therefore they don't represent a threat.

I'd rather have a gay son that a son that explodes himself in Tel Aviv.

But I am sure you disagree.

"Also, one can give evidence credence to anything we like. You can give creditbility to your side and I can give credibility to my side. "

the difference is that you spread lies, not backed up by anything rather than your "opinion". I bring real FACTS and EVERYDAY news and information.

"It's so sad that you people believe everything you see instead of trying to find the truth."

that's pretty stupid. It's like saying the holocaust never existed because I wasn't phisically in Aushwitz.

Oh I bet you probably believe the holocaust never took place...

apostate_islam

your questions were brilliant.

as for the muslims being morally better, I have never seen other group of people being so hypocritical on drinking (for example) like the muslims.

They drink in hiding, but they drink a lot.

And their use of prostitution is large. Always in hiding.