Even before the Islamic Courts made its recent appeal to expatriates to return and fight, "significant" numbers of Somalis in Canada have been doing just that. "Somali holy warriors coming from Canada: experts," from the National Post:
TORONTO -- A number of young Somali-Canadians have returned to their homeland and joined a hardline Islamic militia that some call Africa's Taliban, sources have told the National Post.
The Shabbab, a Somali youth militia whose leader is believed to have been trained by al-Qaida in Afghanistan, includes several Canadians in its ranks, the sources said.
Somali-Canadians are also said to be serving in other militias, as well as in senior positions in Somalia's interim government and its opponent, the Islamic Courts Union.
The Canadians are described as refugees who moved to Toronto and Ottawa in the 1990s, some of them university students, who have returned to Somalia over the past two to three years.
"Some of the militia members of the Shabbab are young diaspora members who returned to Somalia from Canada," a leading Somalia expert, who asked not to be identified, told the Post this week.
"The Somalis who are here, and others who have recently been in, confirm that quite a few of the Shabbab are in fact diaspora members, not just from Canada, but quite a few have come back from places like Pakistan."
Some analysts believe Somalia is on the verge of becoming the next big destination for young extremist Muslims who want to participate in armed jihad.
The participation of a significant number of Canadians in the conflict has raised alarms in Ottawa, which fears members of the Somali militias will escalate to terrorism or return to Canada and radicalize a new wave of extremists.
It was just such a scenario that unfolded after the Soviet War in Afghanistan, when foreign volunteers became the first generation of al-Qaida terrorists. Others returned to the West and began recruiting others into terrorism.
"I think that the real concern is that there's going to be blowback after their time is done in Somalia," the expert said in an interview. "It's very troubling."
To the muslim Somalis who left Canada, good riddance.
To those still in Canada, why dont you join your kids and return to the hellhole you came from ?
Muslim immigration is a curse upon the Western world.
when the full figures are realeased from this it will be horrific. i think africa is ripe for a quick spread of islam. it looks like ethiopia might be next. weve had quite a few (i don't know figures) somalian refugees here in oz.. i wonder if we'll be the next to see this?
This is actually good news for Canada, provided the authorities there are sufficiently sobered up from their seemingly terminal PC-inibriation to keep them out should they try to return to Kanuckistan to collect more welfare.
May the Muslim Somalis in the USA similarly depart for Sharialand, their natural home. It would be sad for the refugee-industrial complex (loss of government money), but a joyful day for the rest of us.
"Some of the militia members of the Shabbab are young diaspora members who returned to Somalia from Canada,"
these spoiled brats have lived most of their lives in Canada with some being born here. l say good ridance dont let the door hit your backside, and when you get maimed stay in your cesspools of islamic filth. this is what happened with the pakistani family l forget their names, they fought and killed Americans in Afganistan, and eventually came back to Canada in a wheelchair, and now my tax dollars are at work supporting these traitors! the liberal government allowed this travesty, and l know it woke up a lot of Canadians about how our government has condoned this disgusting practice in this great country of ours. l say once you leave to go and kill you are a wanted fellon, and will be arrested and jailed before being sent back your pathetic muslim country.
fair_dinkum
Here in the UK even the MSM occasionally report that the Somali community carry on pretty much as they do back home.
They head the field in violent crime, genital mutilation, slashing the face of schoolgirls and shooting the police. In fact in the genital mutilation and face slashing business they have the field pretty much to themselves. Most of these pastimes are accepted as “part of their culture” but the authorities have got a bit upset about them shooting dead one policewoman and wounding another.
We also had a short documentary series by our leading Somali journalist explaining that the resurrection never happened and Christ's miracles were a result of mass hysteria. Wonder if he will ever do a similar job on Mohammed?
Britain did at least govern part of Somalia 50 years ago but what did you do Oz?
americaningermany:
The Conservative party in Canada turfed out the Liberals some time ago, albeit they are in a minority situation. We can only hope they will remain in power and things will change - and so far they have been, as seen by our Prime Minister's stance on our involvment in Afghanistan.
How much American military aid do we give Ethiopia? Ethiopia does not quite have a Muslim majority; support for Ethiopia is crucial.
When a Somali leaves Canada to fight in Somalia, he must not be allowed back in.
americaningermany l never said Bush or the Republicans are perfect, but you see when the Democrats take control, you can look over to Canada and Europe for what will be in store for your comrades in the U.S. For those who like to bash Bush, that is fine, but be careful for what you wish for, for you just might get it.
It is not limited to just Canada, nor are Somali's the only muslims taking short jihad trips. This is happening, right now, all over the world. I don't know where all the "foreign fighters in Iraq come from but I would guess dozens of countries, including western ones. You could argue there is a difference in going to your ancestral homeland to fight and the random picking of the closest jihad war but is there really? Muslims by there own admissions are part of a global family and international boundaries are not existent. All of the surviving jihadi will return back to their new homelands and do what? I don’t think they will open donut shops and raise cute little fat children. They will gang together and attempt to control as much real-estate as they can. All the while partnering up with liberals and academics who will explain why we have to allow them religious freedom. I bought another 500 rounds of freedom yesterday. I am not looking forward to the return of these jihadis but preparation is the key to success.
Why are these Somalis in Canada to begin with? They don't belong in Canada, or the US, or Europe. This is not their home. This is our home. Send them back.
If the Government in Ottawa really is concerned that muslims returning from Somalia will start provoking mayhem in Canada, the WHY THE F*CK ARE THEY PLANNING TO LET THEM BACK IN AT ALL????
They've made their choice. They prefer fighting in Africa to living in "the Dhimmified Dominion", as Mark Steyn refers to it. Okay, fine.
Now they can f*ck off for good!!
Good riddance-any way to get rid of the Islamaniacs has to be a plus. Hopefully the Ethiopians won't be as kind to them as the Canadians were. Wiping them all out when these lunatics attack Ethiopia will only make the world a better place. Canada can send its thanks by sending weapons to the Ethiopians with which they can send the Somalis to glorious martyrdom.
Everybody gains something nice from this in the end.
americaningermany, again l will state for the record, l never said Bush was perfect, but with all his worts he is trying to do something, there are no one in the Demorats nearly as close to nailing that there are actually bad evil people in the muslim ranks. heck God help us when and if the Democrats take over, you will see the US constitution give protection to non American terrorists, and if you think Bush is not conservative enough, taxes will soar, more govenments handouts, maybe even soviet style health care like we have in Canada. yeah l just came from DC, and one of my friend got ill and went to emergency, he actually was taken care of, and had a catscan done within an hour of his admittance to the emergency. one of our other Cdn friends said geesh she had to wait five months for a catscan. anyhow there are far worse politicians than Bush.
as far as allowing those Somalie back into Canada, we need to pressure our government to not allow them back, and put those in prison if they get back. take away their Cdn citzenship and ship them back. l would say the majority of Cdn are thoroughly disgusted with these morons. l am hoping they will instead meet their allah while in somali.
I think the same than Pelayo.
I doubt the Somalis who have gone to join the Islamists were born in Canada or spent a significant part of their childhood here. Many Somali refugees who came here as adults have trouble finding work because they're often completely unschooled and illiterate. Most of those who returned to Somalia in recent years were probably just waiting for the opportunity to go home - ie, actual refugees. Now that the Islamists are in power they'll be working for them, as they run the government and civil services. Some might go into their army but they will be a minority. Few will ever return to Canada and the ones that do are unlikely to become threats to either Canada or the US. There's a community of Somalis near my home and they are much less religious than Pakistani immigrants. Somalis in Ottawa and Toronto who fall through the cracks are more likely to associate themselves with those cities' Caribean communities rather than radical Islam.
And for the barbs about Canada's healthcare system (whatever that has to do with this discussion), give it a rest. It's not perfect but it arguably works better than the UK's and US's. Like a lot of other services it just needs more money. I personally grew up poor and my province's healthcare system saved the lives of me and several members of my family (including a on-the-spot catscan, Zena; they give those right away unless you're complaining about headaches). My only complaint is the law against Canadians from paying for private US health insurance coverage.
What they need to do is identifing the Somali who have gone back and bar them from reentering canada.
We can stop them if they are still refugees claimants. We can't stop them from coming back if they are residents or citizens. There are laws on the books to charge anyone who takes up arms against Canada or one of its allies - a lot of Serbians ended up doing jail time here after going to Kosovo to fight against Nato. To my knowledge there haven't been any Canadians charged for going to Iraq... probably because they don't make it back, or if they do they're being watched by CSIS and US agencies.
Whoever leaves should not be allowed to return. If they wish to engage in terrorist activities or affiliate themselves with groups that are supported in any way by Al'Qaeda, they should all be considered enemies of Canada (as well as the US, Australia, New Zealand, European nations, and all other civilised societies).
If they do return to our shores, they should be immediately charged with treason, that is if prosecutors aren't doing their jobs have charged them with treason already, as in the case with that Adam Gadahn (Azzam the American) psycho.
It really seems to me that there are people from countries that simply by dint of their beliefs and the country's culture, that they are totally unssuitable to any Western democratic country. I have just returned from a couple of weeks in the Philippines, and here i was, an Aussie who has never travelled before at all overseas, and i had no worries mixing in with a people and a country where the whole society is eminently like any Western society with similar values, ie the concept of just living openly, respect for people, the beauty of the country (And the girls of course!) the importance of family and the fact that the way the country operates is really along the same lines of any normal society.
While sadly Somalia and many other nations of it's ilk are just total anarchy, there is no seeming respect for the golden rule, and the people have no idea (Or have long since had any notion killed off) of living in a normal society. Western countries should be much more open to nations like the Philippines and other Asian nations rather than helping basket cases like Somalia and other Muslim first, society second peoples. As many have mentioned before, it seems almost a given that a problem in any given area of the world seems to be Muslim inspired. Maybe a key to entering a Western country should be to renounce Islam by prospective migrants...but these so-called Canadians unfortunately are as Canadian as A.F.L footy i'm afraid.
P.S...it's nice to see the words 'Fair Dinkum' here, maybe us Aussies are starting to get motivated....lol...
I don't know if the Somalian government is in cahoots with Al Qaeda or any other terrorist organization (I haven't followed them in the news too closely). If they are, then yeah I say block any collaborators from returning to Canada or charge them. My opinion is probably in the minority on this board but I don't think Muslims are immediately incompatible with the West due to their religion. The trick is to only accept the wealthiest and best educated - but I say that about all immigration, not just Muslims. Catholics have only really recently been allowed by the church to marry other Christian faiths; Jewish and Orthodox still can't marry outside with their faiths' blessings. Forty years ago that might have meant something but nobody bats an eye about interfaith marriages now. I will concede that few Catholics or Jews would have to worry about being killed over it but you don't see "honour" killings in North America. The best strategy towards integration at home is to only accept the best and the brightest.
There are flaws in my point of view because most of the Toronto terror cell we rounded up were from relatively successful families. Pragmatically I can put aside my liberal ideals and agree we should limit immigration from countries which Canada might find itself at war with in the foreseeable future. It would be nice if we could just build a big bubble over my country to keep out the rest of the world. I don't think I'm alone in that wish - most Canadians are actually pretty isolationist, despite what that Pierre Trudeau guy tried to tell you.
But back to the Somalis: just by returning home and looking for civil service jobs doesn't make them bad people. We took a bunch of them in as refugees and for the most part they haven't caused trouble. The real breeding grounds for Islamofascism in the West are the North Africans in Europe and the South Asians in the UK. Until Somalis start acting worrisome or causing trouble in Canada (or by extension the US) I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. To do otherwise, if there's no evidence of them going over to join Somalian terror groups, leads to fascism of a different kind. When I was younger I might've said otherwise but now I think it's better for a democracy to be REactive rather than PROactive when it comes to limiting people's rights.
Surely our main task should be to supply the Ethiopians with the hardware needed to send these soldiers of allah up to their happy humping ground, as quickly and efficiently as possible.