...which the Sydney Morning Herald reports as an expression of loyalty to Australia. "Sheik calls for 'ethical' trial," by David Braithwaite and Jacqueline Maley in the Sydney Morning Herald, with thanks to David:
Sheik Taj el-Din al Hilaly would quit and place masking tape over his mouth for six months if an impartial panel found him guilty of inciting rape.
While the masking tape might be a nice idea, of course he wasn't inciting rape. He was just saying that rape are the fault of the women who are raped.
In a statement released before he spoke today at Sydney's Lakemba Mosque, the sheik insists he was misreported as saying in a September sermon that scantily dressed women were like "uncovered meat" who invited sexual assault.
Of course. When has a jihadist ever, ever, been accurately reported when he made statements that jarred Western sensibilities?
"Any person, whatever his position may be, who justifies the crime of rape or encourages it under any circumstances, or whoever degrades Australian women for their dress, is nothing but an ignorant, foolish and crazy person who does not deserve to hold any position of responsibility, be it public or private, in our Australian society," the statement says.
Translation: "I am now under pressure, and am telling the Australian media what they want to hear."
Am I being ungenerous? This is a man who has praised Iraqi jihadists and 9/11. How anxious do you think he really is to assimilate into Australian society?
The sheik offered to be judged by an ethical tribunal made up of a judge and two lawyers, aided by two translators, to rule on the contents of the September 22 sermon.If the panel found him guilty of inciting rape, he would:
- "Retire from all religious work and positions."
- "Place a masking tape on my mouth in public places for six months to discipline this mouth for uttering these words."
- "Commit myself to public service duties (600 hours in any women's organisation which provides social services to Australian women)."
If acquitted, the sheik would make a decision about his future which "will serve democracy" and enhance "coexistence and harmony between the Muslim community and its Australian society away from extremism and racial fanaticism".
The sheik did not state he would step down from his current leadership role, but he asked the Australian Federal Imams Board to open nominations for the position and call an election.
"The issue of the mufti of Australia is an Islamic issue and therefore an internal matter. It must be for the Muslim community to deal with," he said.
"Therefore, I ask the secretary of the Australian Federal Imams' Board to open the doors for nomination for any imam wishing to nominate himself for this position.
The Sheik delivered a speech to a crowd of more than 2000 worshippers who filled the mosque and spilled onto its outside steps this afternoon.
He called on his followers to support Australia: "We consider ourselves as servants to Allah firstly, and servants to Australian society secondly."
When will Hillali martyr himself so he can have a personal chat with Allah? As always nuts like these want Allah's paradise and send thousands to their deaths yet scum like this live to a ripe old age and continue to spout the most ridiculous notions. If he insists on not putting his neck out on the line like his dopey followers then someone should put a type of veil on him known as a muzzle. At least then he will shut the hell up already.
I think he ought to be taken at his word, sort of. Except, he should be publicly asked if he will accept the same penalty if his sermon were found to "justify or excuse rape" of women based upon their dress.
"Incite" implies urging the commission of rape. No one is saying that he urged men to go out and rape. He did appear to justify and excuse rape of immodestly dressed women -- and that was very wrong.
And what would a "servant of Allah" -- the kind of servant who could imagine Allah saying at the end of a long day -- "well done, thou good and faithful servant" -- do to be, as well, though secondarily, a "servant to Australian society"? What is the best thing a Muslim can possibly do in any sociey? Why, it is to bring Islam. It is to bring the Qur'an and the Hadith. It is to remove all obstacles to the spreading of Islam, and then to work tirelessly to spread it. For only in Islam, only in the acceptance of Islam, is there any conceivable hope for Infidels, including those in Australia.
There is no contradiction here, no real loyalty expressed to the legal and political institutions of the Australian nation, no delcared lack of hostility to them, or to the social arrangements and understandings that also constitute that place called "Australia."
Both statements are worrisome. Both bristle with menace. But only the first one attracts attention. The second one is woefully, or wilfully, misunderstood.
He called on his followers to support Australia: "We consider ourselves as servants to Allah firstly, and servants to Australian society secondly."
for every muslim who declares this, send them back to the land of sharia where they can be themselves.
He and all others would be best serving allah in the middle east.
Just deport the weak-hearted bastard and move on to the next public 'servant of allah.'
If you can't deport due to humane laws a la Britian... set up a nice place on an island somewhere. Don't call it Devil's Island, however. Perhaps Iblis Island instead? Somewhere warm and tropical with an active volcano... Prevent all servants of allah and fighters in the cause of allah from leaving... provide them swords, machetes, knives and all sorts of firearms so that they can have 'meaningful communications' with each other. Plant hidden microphones and cameras all over Iblis Island. Set up a cable channel 24 x 7 x 365 and use the proceeds to further the anti-jihad efforts.
Iblis Island.
Why are there any Mohammedans in Australia (or in the West as whole) for that matter? Cut the dawa crap...go home and leave us alone!
Just an FYI by comparison--Christians are commanded in Scripture to "give proper respect to everyone FEAR GOD, honor the king.. etc"
Christians are to have their first loyalty to G-d too--the difference here is that the G-d they are called to be loyal to does not call for violent jihad as the pathway to conversions. Even in wicked tyrannical situations---protest is only to be by peaceful means.
I would have no problem with the fist loyalty to allah--if allah was not a murderous phony god. The problem is with islam itself--it means "SUBMIT" period. Well, I guess we all see the problem there.
One faith makes an appeal of conscience to the unconverted the other makes a threat of jihad. Hmmmm??
Why should the laws of non-Muslim nations apply to Muslims if they respect the laws of thier own Allah first?
This is where the laws of the New Testament prove that the Lord of the Bible is wiser.
The Christian Lord doesn't allow His followers to break western laws [which are humane]
Why bother comparing Islam to Christianity? That's like comparing a pile of poop to a chocolate cake. There is no comparison at all. Even Mo knew that. Why else would he steal Jesus for his cult? That alone should make Christians burn with rage.
Should I eat chocolate cake with my right or left hand? Please advise.
It sounds to me like they had just renounced their Australian citizenship.
Ship them back home.
Should I eat chocolate cake with my right or left hand? Please advise.
Posted by: Xero G at November 3, 2006 12:17 PM
One should eat it with a fork. Less messy and more classy. Otherwise, you might be eating Islamically.
I consider myself Christian first and Australian second.
Does this mean I should hand in my citizenship too?
I agree its a problem with Muslims putting islam as their first priority, I just have no fair way of saying its the wrong thing for them to do, without threatening my own approach.
I guess he wasn't paying attention to that sign from Allah:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sheik-released-from-hospital/2006/11/01/1162339891306.html
Or, maybe he just made up the whole heart-attack story... Kind of like the politicians do these days when they get themselves trouble - they check into Rehab until the dust settles...
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Ooops, another typo.
That should read, "when they get themselves into trouble"
Sorry about that.
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Re: "In a statement released before he spoke today at Sydney's Lakemba Mosque, the sheik insists he was misreported as saying in a September sermon that scantily dressed women were like "uncovered meat" who invited sexual assault".
This guy must have taken lessons from Bill Clinton. Clinton was taped saying Mario Cuomo was a mafia type but when the tape was played in public Clinton denied he said that on the tape but apologized to Mario Cuomo for whatever he said.
This sheik bum should be deported. Let Egypt have the mental case. They deserve him.
He and all others would be best serving allah in the middle east.
Posted by: freewoman
Beats me why they'd want to live so far away from mecca. Beats me why we would want them to do so as well.
I like the scene in "Total Recall" [great concept here for the umma-umma] where Arnie shoots his secret-agent wife who keeps trying to kill him between the eyes with the words:"Consider it a divorce"
Let the muftis know we want a divorce.
Payingattention:
Do you seperate what is of God's and what is of the state? Islamists do not. The state and religion are one.
Paying attention --
You bring up a good point. To articulate the difference more clearly, it might be helpful to consider how Islam and Christianity (as well as other belief systems) differ in their interaction with civil government.
The key is whether a separation between church and state is permitted; Islam aims to be religion and state at once, regulating not only trade, taxation, public safety, and so forth, but private matters like prayer and fasting. Then, one's allegiance is either to the secular state or the Islamic state, whereby to brush off the Islamic state is to brush off Allah himself.
So to consider oneself to serve Islam first and Australia second is quite a different thing than the Western tradition, where one can be one's "own man," answerable first and foremost to one's own conscience, insofar, of course, as public health and safety (and government with the consent of the governed) are not threatened. As Oliver Wendell Holmes (I think) put it, "Your right to swing your fist around stops at the end of my nose."
Hope that makes sense, as I'm dashing off some thoughts in a hurry.
From Australia’s laws categorizing treasonous acts (previously posted but appropriate). A person is guilty of treason if he does one of a number of things; item (f) is applicable:
(f) engages in conduct that assists by any means whatever, with intent to assist:
(i) another country; or
(ii) an organization;
that is engaged in armed hostilities against the Australian Defence Force
Salami from Qaradawi!!
What would happen to an Aussie Muslim who wanted to leave the cult of Islam?
Dr. Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, a world-renowned scholar and head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, president of the International Union for Muslim Scholars and participant in the InterFaith Cultural Organization says the same thing Mohammad said:
"Whoever changes his religion, then kill him."
In the good doctor's words:
"The greatest kind of danger that faces Muslims is that which threatens their moral aspect of existence, i.e., their belief. The ugliest intrigue the enemies of Islam have plotted against Islam has been to try to lure its followers away from it; they have even used force for this purpose.
"The third and most dangerous and cunning kind is the secular invasion, which still plays its role in the Muslim world, sometimes openly, and sometimes in disguise.
"The duty of the Muslim community -- in order to preserve its identity -- is to combat apostasy in all its forms and wherefrom it comes, giving it no chance to pervade in the Muslim world.
That is why the Muslim jurists (including the four main schools of Sunni and Shia jurisprudence) agree that apostates must be executed."
http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2006/11/death_to_the_apostates_if_it_i.php
Have a Nice Weekend!
the hell with tape ship a brank knowen as a shcolds bridle from dixie gun works down to oz and lock him in for the next 6 mounths on a slim fast diet that might remove some of the fat between his ears and the fat around the tiny brain in his ass
Thanks for Briars and Marisol, I see your point and it makes sense.
I even feel better about myself thanks so much.
Kind regards
Imam must be having a fun!
Any how; it’s a matter of covering of human body parts. To what extent; we say exposure is acceptable; that may be the issue; specially exposure of women body.
In western society too; we may be free and very promiscuous but people don’t stroll in the streets with out clothing. In the nature birds and other mammals have got their beautiful plumes and hair and fur coats. Birds show off their plumes; their display of colours and spread of it; looks very lovely; a body gesture… just to attract opposite sex.
Like wise; all women wear makeup, dress up very elegantly, ornamented and show off their bodies and figure. Men also dress up handsomely and want to be seen refined and aristocratic.
We all want to show off but always stop short of; to a limit from where it is said; No to; too much exposing of bosom and other private parts of body. A limit is prescribed and understood by all; a cultural unspoken limit; beyond that…It’s No.
It is matter of concern where this …No business starts. Imam may be sta..rting his No earlier.
After all; Janet Jackson was also taken to the task…when her accidental show of bosom in a stage play was; some how… taken as disgusting!
Why bother comparing Islam to Christianity
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS
ISLAMSFORLOSERS
This is 'probably' THE most important question that could be ask in our times - in this present time. [you can even take out the word ''''probably''''' in that reply if you like]
Bottom line:
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Anyone can call themselves a Christian till blue in the face and the cows come home. But in the end - that is NOT what makes a Christian.
Same can be said of Muslims. Unless you are willing to carry out the commands of the allah that you have chosen - you can call yourself a Muslim till blue in the face or the cows come home - THAT STILL DOESN'T make you a Muslim - and it is allah who says so:
004.095 Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons... those who strive and fight hath He distinguished above those who sit at home by a special reward.
002.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing [war] which is good for you and that ye love a thing [peace] which is bad for you?
004.104 And slacken not in following up the enemy: If ye are suffering hardships, they are suffering similar hardships.
009.039 Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place.
If you are a person who would not ever carry out the acts of
Beheadings
Gang Rape
Crucifixions
The Cutting off of limbs
and Treason... you're not a Muslim - no matter how much you claim to be one.
This is the difference - and it is HUGE!
The Amazing part - is that the "Wise men" of this world have yet to figure it out.
Now that - is AMAZING!
We are witnesses to it all
That 'Australian' imam is challenging all to prove his words were wrong. [women not dressed according to Islam - with a 'bag']
No - they [the teachibgs of Islam] and he were not wrong in what he said.
The part that he [the imam] is missing - is that what his allah is teaching him - is very very very very very very very SICK! It's wrong!
A Holy man does not lust after women. They lust after God.
Oh - and by the way...
It is God Who does the calling
{Don't expect the "O wise ones" to understand]
Why would a 'Holy' man [only God is Holy] defend those who would lust after women? - no matter how they are dressed?
If the imans are so wise - why isn't it - they aren't able to see the horrid contradiction?
A Holy man of God - is not tempted by anything or anyone.
If they're not Holy - then why defend them?
The 'Gang Bangers' are not known to make sure the 'whore' they are so readily willing to rape - is not a virgin.
Woe!!! Woe!!! Woe!!! be unto all of Islam - for making any virgin a whore by their thugs! WHETHER SHE BE A MUSLIM OR NOT.
WOE BE UNTO THEM AND THEIR TEACHERS ALSO - COME JUDGEMENT DAY!
This creep is getting so much attention.
However, he has opened the eyes of many here in OZ and this is a good thing.
It could be argued that what he said was fine: it IS fine according to the koran!
Islam first,,then whatever laws suit you.
Aussies are getting sick of this.
Aussie Turkish muslims are distancing themselves from him.
He wants a special trial? Hell no! Why should he get one at tax-payers' cost? Why in fact should he call the shots as to how he is treated?
Great article by Andrew Bolt yesterday - heaps of comments.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_backing_a_bigot/
ESPECIALLY - their teachers!
That Day - is coming!
And they know it!
Why in fact should he call the shots as to how he is treated?
Posted by: Gramfan
I for one - like that question - very very much!
I want an answer!
He called on his followers to support Australia: "We consider ourselves as servants to Allah firstly, and servants to Australian society secondly."
________________________
Then they should have their citizenships revoked and deported.
It was writen lomg ago
They have ears - but they don't hear
and eyes - but they don't see
The Knocking on the door in the deep of the night.....
-
-
-
Might Change Their Minds
The Silver Lining is Fine - it's great
But where does that leave the future for our children?
ALL parents are willing to die for their children.
The sad part is - Most don't know what it is - they have to die for.
Al-Hilali: "We consider ourselves as servants to Allah firstly, and servants to Australian society secondly"
.................
This statement indicates a mindset so accustomed to the idea of unquestioning submission to some authority that it cannot conceive that Australians do not consider themselves "servants" to Australian society.
Like most Westerners, they consider themselves *citizens*, very much a part of their society, not subservient to it. A worldview like this is not only incompatible with Democracy--it also doesn't understand the first thing about it.
* [Hilali] called on his followers to support
* Australia: "We consider ourselves as servants to
* Allah firstly, and servants to Australian
* society secondly."
If Hilali truly seeks to serve "Allah", Australia
is not the place to do it - we are clearly "infidels" in "Allah's" eyes, for our Parliament opens with a prayer that honours God, and includes
the Lord's Prayer. "Allah" has no son, but Jesus Christ, God the Son, gave us the Lord's Prayer as
a model.
Standing orders
Chapter 8 - Sittings, quorum and adjournment of the Senate
49 - Meeting of Senate
The bells shall be rung for 5 minutes prior to the time appointed for a meeting of the Senate, and the President shall then take the chair.
50 - Prayer
The President, on taking the chair each day, shall read the following prayer:
Almighty God, we humbly beseech Thee to vouchsafe Thy special blessing upon this Parliament, and that Thou wouldst be pleased to direct and prosper the work of Thy servants to the advancement of Thy glory, and to the true welfare of the people of Australia.
Our Father, which art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.