While Spencer's away, the mice can play.
Here is an article that needs no comment from me, but feel free to add your own. From AFP:
Al-Qaeda's Iraq chief threatened in an audio message posted on the Internet that the terror network will "blow up the White House."
"We announce today the end of a phase of the jihad (holy war) and the start of a new one... to usher in the project of an Islamic caliphate and restore Islam's glory," Abu Hamza al-Muhajer said in the message.
"We swear we will not rest from our jihad... before blowing up the filthiest house, dubbed the White House," in the course of establishing the caliphate which began with the proclamation of an Islamic state in Iraq, he said.
And from our "Smile When You Say That, Mister" department:
"I thank the most stupid and worst president America -- the country of slaves and drugs -- has ever had for giving us this great historic opportunity," said the voice.
"The American people have taken the first step on the right path in order to get out of their impasse and have started to realize the treachery of their president and his subordination to Israel, voting for a measure of reason in the latest elections," Muhajer said.
It must be a great comfort to the leftists to know that their views are endorsed and validated by Abu Hamza al-Muhajer and jihadists everywhere.
Didn't they already do that in the movie, Independence Day?
Oh, wait, that was the aliens...
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
While RS is away
http://www.americastruthforum.com/symposium.htm
Hmmm, I notice that Dean Esmay and his posse are not mentioned in this symposium.
/Sorry just had to.
Speaking of aliens attacking, check out the following article:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23373921-details/%27Aliens+could+attack+at+any+time%27+warns+former+MoD+chief/article.do
Weird stuff...
htttp:///doctorbulldog.wordpresss.com
Is anyone really surprised by these comments? What I'm waiting for is the leaders of Democrat party to publically repudiate the support of Al Qaeda and Iran.
How utterly appropriate that we should be called a "nation of drugs and slavery" when the Islamo-kooks fund their operations with heroin money and boast the only nations on the planet that still have slavery... Mister Pot you have a call from Mister Kettle...
If we learned anything from 9/11, we learned that these [people] mean business, and that they need to be destroyed. We need to go in a bomb the crap out of that country -- and soon!!
Meanwhile, in Iraq, both Sunnis and Shi'a have started firing mortars at each other's neighborhoods. Things, rightly interpreted, are looking up.
If only there were a little less scapegoating of the wrong man, Donald Rumsfeld, who was one of the least enthusiastic and least messianic and most eager, among the main participants in what turned out to be, but did not have to be (and still doesn't, if "victory" is interpreted to mean leaving Iraq in a state which will inevitably cause those sectarian and ethnic divisions to flourish, thereby dividing and demoralizing and weakening the Camp of Islam)to leave Iraq. One had the feeling that Rumsfeld never wanted the troops to stay, and he seldom engaged in the kind of rhetoric about "freedom" that Bush and Rice and Cheney all indulged in.
When will "victory" be defined correctly? When will this nonsense about abhorring "instability" and about the need to "avoid the catastrophe of civil war" stop, and sensible people see how this is not to be deplored, but to be received with grim, and growing, satisfaction.
There are articles in the archives about this, and a great many postings, going back to February and March and April of 2004, and boriingly repeating the same theme: the right definition of victory (to weaken the Camp of Islam) will lead, in the end, to an understanding that the stated American goal is false, is wrong, is the opposite of what the American government should wish to achieve, and that Iraq is a place where men, money, and materiel are being squandered, and the chance to have the two most unpleasant and powerful and malevolent Muslim states, Sunni (Wahhabi) Saudi Arabia, and Shi'a Iran, at each other's throats, through war-by-proxy or even something a bit more immediate (at least on Iran's side), is a chance that it would be criminal, utterly crazy, not to exploit.
But then, intelligence and the abilty to study Islam and relate that study to world events has not exactly characterized either the present set of leaders, or that curious collection of fixers with a long record of favoring "our friends in the Gulf" such as James Baker, and Lee Hamilton (the endorser of that Robert-Malley-behind-the-Gareth-Evans-scenes effort to have one more group signing of the need to force Israel to continue not to recognize the Lesser Jihad against it and to make further concessions for this monstrous "two-state solution" plan that ignores the Treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya and the entire history of Muslim jurisrudence and the Muslim view of an Infidel state on land once part of Dar al-Islam. And aside from Baker and Hamilton, there are others who offer the mixture as before.
Who, among these bakers and hamiltons, has ever demonstrated an understanding of Islam? Did James Baker ever do so? Did he ever worry about, or try in the slightest to diminish, the OPEC oil revenues that fund mosques, madrasas, and armies of propaganstists including Western hirelings much like...James Baker? Did any of them see our aid to the Muslims as Jizyah, both in the way it was given by the donor (fearful of ever diminishing it) and received by the donee (who always took it as a matter of right, and became furious -- see the "Palestinians" -- if the Infidel donors ever dared to cut it off even for a brief period, and of course not a single one of the poor Arabs ever thought that they should ask for support not from Infidels but from the fabulously rich Arab oil states, nor did any of those fabulously rich Arab oil states ever think that it should be they, and not the Infidels, who should be supporting any Arab or Muslim country that forgot to be born with oil under its soil).
Nothing good should be expected of this Baker-Hamilton Commission. If, however, despite all their "recommendations" about talking to our enemies Syria and Iran -- strange when you think about it, because Baker is the Sunni Arabs's man, but he is terminally confused about Islam, and perhaps he fails to realize that Syria is ruled not by Sunni Arabs but by Alawites, and the way to deal with that regime is to threaten to go around Assad to the Alawite officer corps, and to point out to them that Bashir al-Assad not only is promoting a very great number of Sunni Arabs (Alawites other than Bashir al-Assad know what that means for them), but has also given Shi'a missionaries from Iran free reign to convert Sunni Arabs in Syria). Is any of this known to the Baker Commission? I doubt it. The last time James Baker went to Syria, he revealed to the Syrian authorities information about two Israeli spies in Syria, enough so that his murderous hosts promptly located the men and had them executed -- in a day's work for careless James Baker, a combination of wily Texas fixer, though, when it comes to the Middle East and to Muslims, a permanent sucker, a permanent naif.
That's where we have it. The idiocy of the "all people want freedom" business of Bush and Rice, and the Iraq the Model (yes, a Shi'a-dominated Iraq that would somehow be a model for Sunni Arab states -- don't ask how), and then the so-called old hands, the wise old men, who are not wise at all, whose own histories show, inter alia, that they failed to understand Khomeini and did not sufficiently support the Shah, failed to realize what Wahhabi Saudi Arabia is all about, failed completely to realize that there is no treaty which the Arabs will sign with Israel that they can conceivably keep, for the basis of Muslim jurisprudence is Muhammad's treaty with the Meccans (Al-Hudaibiyya), failed to understand Islam's tenets, the attitudes and atmospherics of Islam.
And above all, they have failed to understand not only the doctrine and duty of Jihad, so central to Islam (what do you think the members of that committee have read? How much of the Qur'an and the Hadith do you think James Baker and Lee Hamilton have dipped into? How many "defectors" from Islam -- that is, apostates -- or witnesses to Islam from among the non-Muslims (Christians, Jews, Hindus, and others) who have grown up in societies suffused with Islma -- do you think they have spoken to, and whose revealing testimony they have taken in and understood?
I'll tell you how much. They haven't read a word of the Qur'an or Hadith. They know nothing about the figure of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil. They have given no thought to the main instruments of Jihad, any more than has Bush -- the carefully-targetted campaigns of Da'wa, the demographic conquest of Western Europe.
Western Europe? Do you think someone as provincial as James Baker is keeping his eye on the countries of Western Europe, or on the changes being wrought, the pressures being brought to bear, on both their foreign and domestic policies, by the large-scale presence of Muslims?
Of course you don't.
It will be mostly nonsense. But if it gives Bush the fig-leaf he needs to get out of Iraq, pocket it. And forget the rest.
Robert,
Will you make a thread about Congresswoman Ginny Brown-Waite letter condemning CAIR's attempt to stifle free speech. It's a breath of fresh air. Here's the link from LGF.
Response to CAIR
I think jihadis really give too much credit to Israel. Even the Jewish friends I know seem not to be anti-Islam, even though here we think they ought to be.
Roxane,
Wow, that is some response. How I wish we had more government officials like her.
Just now on Fox News, Steve Centani (of all people) reported the threat to the White House coupled with the endorsement of the election results. Almost as if Fox news staff is reading the blogs...
"How much of the Qur'an and the Hadith do you think James Baker and Lee Hamilton have dipped into?" - Hugh 'Huge' Fitzgerald
Probably about as much as the media folks - zero.
Speaking of which, I've been looking for good print collections of Hadith. Anybody have recommendations? All I've found at the bookstore is a brief 'Introduction to Hadith' by a Nigerian Muslim. I was a bit shocked by the Hadith proscribing the killing "hypocrites" but that the killing should be done with a sharp blade because killing should be kind - or some such.
I want to read more of the originals in good translation. Because so far, I'm appalled. And the small collection I'm reading was compiled by a Muslim - it wasn't 'cherry-picked' to put Islam in a bad light, and I'm afraid the Hadith gets worse.
If you do not need the Hadith in book form, why not go here:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
Hadith in Bukhari's auhtoritative collection -- easily searchable as well.
Tonight is a good night.
First, I prefer my jihadis emboldened and vocal. Al Qaeda seems to be feeling their oats after the election and this is good. Please continue to threaten to blow up the White House. It makes for good headlines.
Second, that letter from the Florida Congresswoman just established a precedent on congressional letterhead for all to see and hear. Congresswoman Ginny Brown-Waite for Vice President in 2008.
Third, someone posted a response a night or two ago in the style of the book 1984. I remember reading 1984 in school and thought it would be nice to read it again. Being too cheap to spend $14 at Borders, I went to the local used bookstore. The lady tending shop was pretty clearly a former flower child, and very nice when asked for help. What she said still has me feeling good.
She said that there was a surge in sales of the classic Western Literature. When asked about how big she said ‘wicked big’ (her words). She explained that young people were buying most of the books and that ‘they are reading the books on their own that we were forced to read in High School’.
Roxane,
That was very good .
We need more like this....
Where is every body?
the terror network will "blow up the White House."
Oh but what will they raise the flag of Islam over?
/Sarc off
Seriously though I don't blame anybody for voting democrat given the stupid mistakes Bush and the republicans made, but are the dems going to do the opposite and get tough? No there going to be even worse and proclaim themselves better. Hugs for terrorists! Department of peace!! More jizya!!! Open Guantanamo!!!!
Sigh
More delusions of grandeur from one of the worst losers in the cult of death. Bin Loser turning Jewish is more likely than this latest threat coming to pass. I'm impressed- I never figured mindless idiots had a capacity for dreaming.
Seriously though I don't blame anybody for voting democrat given the stupid mistakes Bush and the republicans made, but are the dems going to do the opposite and get tough? No there going to be even worse and proclaim themselves better. Hugs for terrorists! Department of peace!! More jizya!!! Open Guantanamo!!!!
Sigh
Posted by: JadeDragoness at November 10, 2006 11:05 PM
1)The Lite Dems (better known as the Republicans) did indeed shoot themselves in the foot. It was almost inevitable that they'd lose.
2)The Anarchists (better known as the Democrats) will probably spend a great deal of time crucifying Bush and company, neglecting more important things in the process. We can only hope they don't go too easy on the terrorist filth.
3)Open more Gitmos and fill them all, although I'd prefer more dead jihadists than captured ones.
Hugh said
There is much to say about Rumsfeld, from the planning for invasion with an absence of any intelligence supporting the existence of WMD's, to refusing requests for adequate troop levels, to offering insufficient supplies (vehicle armor, body armor, even ammunition as we learned from the Tillman investigation), to refusal to attend soldiers' funerals, to censorship of the return of soldiers' bodies, to the security risks of including Iraqis in the planning of operations, and so on. But that point is moot now, or rather that is a debate for historians now.
But I agree with Hugh in this sense: we keep hearing stories about how Rumsfeld was responsible for the looting that took place after the initial fighting ended. How Rumsfeld was responsible for separating our troops off from Iraqi society by isolating them behind the Green Zone. How Rumsfeld allowed the Sunni-Shi'ite-Kurdish divides to fester (if only he had had the wisdom). How Rumsfeld didn't put pressure on the Iraqi government to set aside their differences and act with unity.
Never any mention of Iraqi responsibility for looting, tribalism, creating a culture of violence. No, it's always Rumsfeld, the figurehead WASP who is responsible for the state of Iraqi society, not the Iraqis themselves. It's DEFINITELY not the influence of Islam, that religion founded by a caravan-raiding, slave-taking, beheading-ordering, prepubescent-raping, hallucination-hearing madman Muhammad.
In that sense, Rumsfeld is a scapegoat, and is being used to divert attention from what is going on there in Iraq.
If the election of Democrats gets us out of Iraq sooner, under whatever pretext, that's a good thing. But I have no hopes or illusions that any politician, of any party, has any realistic plan to stop, or at least control, or at least identify the jihad. A half-step in the right direction is better than none, and the best that can be hoped for in 2006.
-Jan Sobieski
Hadith software
It has Bukhari, Muslim, and four others.
And now something completely different
/Monty Python
Doctor Bulldog,
Read the story from your link about the guy who set off a rocket from his bottom.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/mailFrameset.do?url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=415412&in_page_id=1770
A Rumsfeld comment, with the qualification that it is late: The man was in his late sixties when he took the job. He was a multi-millionaire plus that didn’t need to work on a public paycheck. He stepped into the hot seat, knowing that the The Late Show with Jon Steward would skewer him nightly.
People like Rumsfeld, and there are millions of people like him here in America, are the reason that you can sleep well tonight. Here’s to the men who step into the ring…
Jan Sobieski, here is a tactic that I have successfully used when confronted by an apologist either on line or in person. I have found three websites where opinions (fatwas) are searchable. Instead of pointing to a Quranic verse or something out of a hadith, I just cite an opinion from a Muslim "scholar." This avoids the "you-can't-read-Arabic" defense.
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php
http://www.islamonline.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=lI2P2A
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng
These are great resources and veeery interesting reading.
Concerning the USC site that Hugh provided, read this page first:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html#HEADING1
From article:
"We announce today the end of a phase of the jihad (holy war) and the start of a new one...”
Thank God, I was getting tired of the old Jihad. Ya know the rape, beheading, suicide, hiding behind women while dressed as women, firing missiles from schools, stoning rape victims, parading dead bodies in the heat for hours until someone with a camera filmed it, submission for non believers, lying, not bathing, drinking camel urine; I’m gonna stop because I don’t have any more vacation built up to complete this list!
Touch my Whitehouse, I dare you. Find out all about the second amendment!
-Pelayo,
Good idea. Let them hand you the ammunition themselves. Beats the hell out of wading through all that nonsensical gobbledygook and viscious mumbo-jumbo.
The lesson, delivered by a PA religious cleric, instructed Palestinians to strive for a violent death in which the martyred corpse has "no head, no legs, his body completely burned . . . intestines outside, fingers . . . gone.”
Gory to Allah...the god of grizzly gore...
Posted by: duh_swami at November 10, 2006 11:52 PM
Well, all that can be said about this is that an insane asylum needs to be placed across from every mosque. Next thing they'll probably do is set up a table at the mosque featuring an actual body in this condition with the mule-ah saying "strive for this-the greatest condition to reach heaven in". How such a body will perform with those virgins will require some explaining however.
Now that the country that gave the world Auschwitz and Treblinka are threatening to try Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, and Co for war crimes (i.e. foiling jihad), it'll be interesting to see if that good ol' German efficiency can turn them into lampshades or bars of soap before the White House goes blitzenpoofen.
"How such a body will perform with those virgins will require some explaining however."
I believe Bart Simpson asked a similar question of his Sunday school teacher in one of the older episodes:
The last time the enemy Muhajer opened his hamhole, he claimed that coalition and Iraqi forces had killed over 4,000 "foreign fighters" (read Islamic terrorists) in Iraq.
Does it sound like we're losing?
Where should we send the troops?
It doesn't make sense to leave.This bozo sounds desperate with his threats to the White House.
Not only will many innocents die if the coalition takes off too early, this nutjob and his buddies are free to sharpen their swords and hit the road.
Victory is an option we must embrace.It happens when Iraqis can stand on their own and the way to do that is to continue engaging the enemy.
Jan Sobieski
The sites Hugh, Eisenhund and Pelayo gave you are good. Besides that, here's a search engine used by the Islam Online mobots that let you scour not just Quran and Hadith, but also Usool, Fiqh, Sayings, Beliefs and certain other items.
http://www.muhaddith.org/cgi-bin/e_Optns.exe
Pelayo
The page you stumbled across on the USC site is a Gold mine, and useful for the refutation handbook. I'll copy it into the resources.
Question for anybody - is there an online version of NJ Dawood's Quran translation out there? So far, I've generally been using Pikhthall, but the 16th century English is annoying to manage. Looking at the FAQ page of this site, looks like Robert mentions Dawood and Arberry. If I could get either of those translations online, I'd prefer to use that instead.
Doctor Bulldog said:
I read the article, and since it piqued my curiosity, I searched further and found an interview where Nick Pope answered audience questions. The discussion was moderated by ABC News' Chris Wallace. Here's one interchange that stood out for me:
That answer makes rather weak Pope's case for aliens visiting Earth in UFO's. Still, the interview I linked to is interesting, because Pope sounds disinterested and reasonable, and he studied UFO sightings for the British Ministry of Defense. For now I buy into the skeptical debunking of alien UFO theories, but if given enough evidence, I admit I might be prepared to suspend disbelief in anything that's fun to believe in. Extraterrestrials in UFOs would fit that bill, but I can't say I've seen any solid evidence that doesn't collapse into uncertainty at best, once open-minded inquiry is applied.How off topic! The mice will play!
Sorry, I gave the wrong link to the interview. Here it is: Nick Pope interview
Al-Qaeda's Iraq chief threatened in an audio message posted on the Internet that the terror network will "blow up the White House."
...............
But wait--how are they going to fly the flag of Islam over the White House if they blow it up? Wait--maybe that wasn't the White House, maybe it was Big Ben, or the Houses of Parliament or something--it's so hard to keep track...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/012166.php
To Pelayo: thanks for those links, I've put them in my favorites.
infidel pride:
Arberry's translation, together with seven others, is at www.quranbrowser.com
I'm sick of their warnings but take them for their word. It took them eight long years to come back and finish the job on the World Trade Center which they were hell bent on destroying.
If they say they won't rest until they have blown up the white house, be afraid. Enough said. And in the interim, people forget while we are trying to fight a warm and fuzzy war. I hope the people who voted for the wrong side are satisfied and of course, who will be crying first? Dhimmiwits.
When Iraq or any Muslim nation wont help their own from the billions they earn from oil, I cannot understand why the west pours our hard earned money into these countries, especially as it doesnt go to the people... I want to help the people in desperate need in my own country not help these people who hate our guts and who openly say they will slaughter us...
It is no wonder they think we are fools and they are right... Surely Americans dont really think that the hell will stop once our boys are called home, it is islams aim to take the whole world for Allah, and it might stop for a while and only while Muslims gain more in weapons and numbers, and they installed more Muslims in the lands of the people they hate..enemy behind the lines..
This is for it'sallAmerica'sfault whingeing indians:
"However, having established terrorism as India's major concern, New Delhi is yet to spell out its course of action in the event of Islamabad reneging on its January 6 commitment.
Ahead of the India-Pakistan Foreign Secretary-level talks starting Monday, New Delhi says it does not hold the people of Pakistan responsible for terror acts in India. "We have problems with terrorists. We never said we do not want a relationship with Pakistan," said official sources. For the moment, therefore, even as it readies to present Islamabad with "credible evidence" of Pakistani involvement in terror attacks on India, New Delhi says people-to-people contacts shall remain unbroken".
Today's news report from Daily Pioneer
A South American despot made the mistake of threatening the USA in a speech at the UN. A very quiet battle was mounted by ordinary American Citizens. Using the weapon of our Almighty dollar that everyone claims to hate; loves to get.
Count the cars at the pumps when you drive by a Citgo station. Multiply +++.
The MSM mentioned last week that the numbers were -15%. Do we really belive them?
It has occured to me that these Terror-moonies think they understand how we will react to violence against our country.
They need to remember that we are the country that invented the A-bomb. We are also the only country to have ever dropped them.
I never got the object of the second bomb, wasn't the point made with the first one?
Take care not to "Awaken the sleeping giant"
And remember, our government has yet to take our weapons away from us as indiviuals. And we taught the Brits what gorillia warfare was back in 1770's. How dare we shoot from behind trees?
I'm thinking that a full veil would be a great place for a woman to conceal an automatic weapon, just in case of a rape and there are no male eyewitnesses as required by Sharia Law.
Today we honor not only the living veterans but those who made the great sacriface. A goodVeterans Day (USA), and for those who live in Canada and Western Europe, Rememberence Day to those who post here at JW/DW.
In Flanders Fields
Li Col John McCrae | 1915 | Lt Col John McCrae, MD, (Canadian Army)
IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
"Al-Qaeda in Iraq threatens to blow up the White House"
I'm sure the democrats will help them do it.
Hugh, thanks for your ever interesting and intelligent comments, your knowledge is as good as Roberts... I have pinched some if it sometimes...
I also notice from the your comments that you don't lower yourself to nastiness and I admire you for that...
Thank goodness we live in Australia, would hate to be in America now, however as our right winged government has been in government for 12 years and the media is totally left, as is most of the world media, I suppose we will be in the same position soon. All our states have a left government, and of course probably because the usual vote rigging goes on. It appears to me that our media and left winged governments are hell bent on destroying us...
Hugh says "And above all, they have failed to understand not only the doctrine and duty of Jihad"
Actually l had a mistrust of islam even before l read it's literature. This is called "common sense". When something looks, smells, and acts bad, something in your being should say..there is something wrong with islam. then a person with any insight looks into and reads more. Where is the common sense with most in the government? you might blasts Bush, but there is far less common sense with the Demorats, Nancy Pelosi, clintons, and l fear that the end as what has been written in parts of the Bible will come to pass. If people think the numbers killed were high after WW2, you aint seen nothin yet, and it will come sooner than you wish.
These islamic moonbats are in for a real shock if they think that even a democratic whitehouse will result in American removal from Iraq.
Once Saddam was removed, the only bulwark against Iran, that opened up the floodgates of islamic extremists, especially shia, that wish to take over and align with Iran. Bush did not count on that. Saddam as bad as he was, served a vital anti-islamic function.
High ironic, then, that in his struggle to fight islamic extremism, set off by 9/11, Bush removes the only secular arab leader in the middle east, one which served as a barrier to Iran, and who ruthlessly suppressed the islamic extremists in his own nation. There was a reason why Saddam was so despotic and cruel.
How even more ironic that under the guise of preventing proliferation of WMD, Bush did a huge favor to the one middle east nation, with an actual nuclear program, by removing its nemesis, which did not.
To make an analogy, it's as if Bush, in a war on the IRA, and the proliferation of excessive drinking, attacked London, and removed Margaret Thatcher.
Regardless, if, hypothetically, America was to remove itself from Iraq, Iran would waste no time in filling the vacuum. Nature abhors a vacuum, and so does islam. (Nature also abhors islam, but that is beside the point.)
You can be assured that the powers that be today, will not allow the US to leave Iraq. Primarily Saudi Arabia. In fact, the middle east, with the exception of Syria, would be secretly opposed to letting Iran move into Iraq, and from there, to be emboldened further. You can also be assured, that Europe, secretly, does not want the US to leave. They don't want to be saddled with any peacekeeping duties in Iraq, duties they know they can not provide, and do not want to provide. And they are much closer to a bellicose Iran, and its missiles, once Iran moves westward.
The US is going nowhere. Figuratively and literally. Indeed, no democratic candidate, but the muslim ellison, no surprise there, has advocated pulling out of Iraq. The democrats got votes by being assumed to be in favor of a pull out. They are not. For the next two years, they will talk about a withdrawal, but only on a timetable, and only under certain conditions, conditions that we know will never be met, because Iraq will never be able to secure itself, either from the Iranian armed forces, or from belligerent islamic extremists, both internally, and externally.
Consequently, by 2008, Nov, there will still be talk of a pullout, but a pullout that will not happen, no matter who wins the whitehouse. Indeed, should a democract win, like Clinton, she will be interested in appearing resolute, and not "cutting and running". Soon, even President Clinton will be giving excuses as to why the troops were not home for Christmas 2010.
As long as Saudi Arabia calls the shots in Washington, and long as Iran is lead by the warmongering Madhat, and bent on islamic imperialism, as long as the iraqis themselves are unable, or unwilling, to fight islamic extremism and remake their country as a secular state, with its own powerful military loyal to an Ataturk-style leader, the US will stay in Iraq.
Think about it. We are still in Germany and Japan 60 years later, and there is no pressing need to be there. But we remain because of political concerns, concerns not a fraction as relevant and intrinsic as what the middle east, led by saudi arabia, and all of Europe, has about Iran.
Hugh wrote:
"(The) American goal is false, is wrong, is the opposite of what the American government should wish to achieve, and that Iraq is a place where men, money, and materiel are being squandered, and the chance to have the two most unpleasant and powerful and malevolent Muslim states, Sunni (Wahhabi) Saudi Arabia, and Shi'a Iran, at each other's throats, through war-by-proxy or even something a bit more immediate..."
Hugh has moved me to his way of thinking. Let's just leave. Iraq has the government it deserves.
I thought the policy of trying to foster democracy in Arabia was thinking outside the box and that although unlikely to be achieved, a good objective nonetheless. When we look at Germany and Japan today it was virtually unthinkable as what they would become from what they were in the 1930s and 1940s. There comes a point where a strategy that is not working should be abandonned.
The Iraqis have shown themselves to be too corrupt a people to respect eachother and are unable to set up a consensual government. The culture of Islam is too destructive.
The history books my be kind to the West showing the West won the war in 15 minutes, but that the Iraqis were unable to give up their fondness for a 8th century life style and the West decided after all its largesse and wasted treasure and resources, the Iraqis would have to fend for themselves.
May the Iraqis in working out their internal differences among themselves obtain the martyrdom they desire.
Mr. Fitzgerald is right. It all works out for the best. The Islamic dynamic in Iraqi society made it impossible for the religion of peace to make peace among its adherents. It will not know peace and prosperity because it is a savage, insidious and evil culture. This is despite the fact that Iraq is endowed with some of the greatest natural resources on the globe. Allah Aqba, Allah N'aqba!
Re: "We swear we will not rest from our jihad... before blowing up the filthiest house, dubbed the White House," in the course of establishing the caliphate which began with the proclamation of an Islamic state in Iraq, he said.
This belief-system is a mental illness in which beliefs are treated as if they are objective truth. People who espouse beliefs as if they are facts should be placed in mental hospitals, especially if they believe they have a mandate to force unbelievers to accept their belief-system. In the future, what is written here will become mainstream thought. It's realistic: people who cannot separate belief from fact and behave as if belief is fact are mentally ill.
americaningermany-
I think your comparison of Jihadists with Son-of-Sam is valid. It fits. He was a classic example of mental illness: he had a supremacist attitude based on a belief-system and proceeded to kill people on the basis of the belief-system.
Jihadwatch has caused me to think very hard re the nature of beliefs and how they affect self-perception and behavior. Beliefs have measurable consequence even though they are not facts and in many ways are more predictors of behavior than facts. It's not a person's ethnicity, their socio-economic roots, intelligence, that is key to behavior. I've come to the conclusion it's the belief-system that creates core self-perception and resulting behavior.
Aside from Robert and Hugh, there are several very smart folks who post. I think you are one of them. The comparison with Son-of-Sam with Muslim supremacist attitudes in terms of belief affecting behavior is valid.
Iraq is the armpit of the world, but Iran is the asshole.
americaningermany,
Thanks. I am a gem-LOL
Frank
Another Veterans Day poem, this one for our American armed forces men who are serving in Iraq, Afganistan, and througout the whole world and stateside.
It Has Always Been The Soldier
It is the soldier,
not the President,
who gives us democracy.
It is the soldier,
not the Congress,
who takes care of us.
It is the soldier,
not the reporter,
who has given us Freedom of Press.
It is the soldier,
not the poet,
who has given us Freedom of Speech.
It is the soldier,
not the campus organizer,
who has given us the Freedom to Demonstrate.
It is the soldier,
who salutes the flag,
who serves beneath the flag,
and whose coffin is draped by the flag
that allows the protester to burn the flag.
By Father Dennis O'Brien
Chaplain
United States Marines
Never any mention of Iraqi responsibility for looting, tribalism, creating a culture of violence. No, it's always Rumsfeld, the figurehead WASP who is responsible for the state of Iraqi society, not the Iraqis themselves.
That's because the predominant view of the PC West of Third World peoples in general -- and those Third Worlders par excellence, the victimized Muslims -- is as precious Noble Savages or animals or forces of Nature, who have no ethical responsibility, whose actions are driven by what we, the West, do to them, and how they simply react with their animal instincts -- much like how beautiful lions on the Savannah might react, with understandable savagery, you see, to the intrusion of the white man doing his usual, callous Western things.
"I thank the most stupid and worst president America -- the country of slaves and drugs -- has ever had for giving us this great historic opportunity..."
What? He's thanking Saudi Arabia? As well he should, I guess.
The US made slavery illegal about 150 years ago. Slavery is still legal in Saudi today, essentially.
Silly fellow.
Geoff
You know, I was fishing through the Gospels looking for Jesus death threats. What is that?
To name is to know; to know is to control.
There is nothing radical about the Jihad war terrorists; nor is there a goddamned thing Islalmist about them. They are not Moslemists. They are Moslems pure and simple.
They are Moslem activists acting on the commandments of Koran, to wit:
“Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
610 * 623 * 732 * 1066 * 1215 * 1453 * 1492 * 1683 * 1928 * 1938 * 1948 * 1996 * 2001
Until we get our naming right, we cannot defend ourselves because our hands are tired by false language.
To name is to know; to know is to control.
There is nothing radical about the Jihad war terrorists; nor is there a goddamned thing Islalmist about them. They are not Moslemists. They are Moslems, pure and simple.
They are Moslem activists acting on the commandments of their punk-ass "god" from the Koran, to wit:
Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
610 * 623 * 732 * 1066 * 1215 * 1453 * 1492 * 1683 * 1928 * 1938 * 1948 * 1996 * 2001
Until we get our naming right, we cannot defend ourselves. This is because our hands are tied by false language.