Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali dares to challenge the manipulative public stance of Muslims in the UK. By Christopher Morgan in the TimesOnline, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
THE Church of England’s only Asian bishop, whose father converted from Islam, has criticised many Muslims for their “dual psychology”, in which they desire both “victimhood and domination”.In the most outspoken critique of Muslims by a church leader, Michael Nazir-Ali, the Bishop of Rochester, said that because of this view it would never be possible to satisfy all their demands.
“Their complaint often boils down to the position that it is always right to intervene when Muslims are victims, as in Bosnia or Kosovo, and always wrong when the Muslims are the oppressors or terrorists, as with the Taliban or in Iraq,” said Nazir-Ali.
“Given the world view that has given rise to such grievances, there can never be sufficient appeasement and new demands will continue to be made.”
The failure to counter such beliefs meant that radical Islam had flourished in Britain, spread by extremist imams indoctrinating children for up to four hours a day, he said.
Nazir-Ali added that rigorous checks, from which the government had retreated in face of Muslims’ protests, should be imposed to ensure that arriving clerics were committed to the British way of life.
“Characteristic British values have developed from the Christian faith and its vision of personal and common good,” said the bishop in an interview with The Sunday Times.
“After they were clarified by the enlightenment they became the bedrock of our modern political life. These values need to be recovered to help us to inculcate the virtues of generosity, loyalty, moderation and love.”
Nazir-Ali, who was born in Pakistan and whose father converted from Islam to Catholicism, said radical Islam was being taught in mosque schools across Britain. “While radical teaching may not be happening everywhere, its presence is felt across the country. It affects all Muslims,” he said.
“The two main causes of the present situation [rising extremism] are fundamentalist imams and material on the internet.” He proposed to filter out imams who might whip up extremism: “They must be vetted for appropriate qualifications, they must have a reasonable knowledge of the English language and they must take part in a recognised process of learning about British life and culture.”
The government, after lobbying from Muslim groups, retreated from proposals to toughen entry requirements put forward by David Blunkett, the former home secretary, two years ago. Plans to require foreign clerics to sit a test on British civic values a year after arriving were cancelled along with the introduction of a requirement to speak English to conversational level....
Nazir-Ali, 57, was born a Catholic in Karachi, converted to Protestantism and was received into the Church of Pakistan at 20. He settled in Britain in the 1980s and became the youngest bishop in the world at 35.
Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said his comments were not “very helpful for community relationships”.
Right. Nazir-Ali should kowtow like a good dhimmi.
May there be multiplied numbers of leaders who will speak up like this and call for change---to require muslim immigrants to BE COMPATIBLE with the society they immigrate to. How can western democracies require less?
YET WE READ HERE:
"The government, after lobbying from Muslim groups, RETREATED from proposals to toughen entry requirements put forward by David Blunkett, the former home secretary, two years ago"
If you watched any of the Obsession expose on the islamic menace yeserday--one thing that was amazing is the vitriol spewed in the islamic protests under our treasured freedom of speech and expression we enjoy in the west. Of course in the lands these people come from--such would get them in prison or killed. Rants and chants of Death to America--allah curse the UK!" and so forth--I am confused here.
The talking heads said such speech should be protected---I don't get it. We can ban yelling FIRE in crowded building but, "Death to Bush" and such rants are protected--I think the time to GET REAL about just what is "off limits" with the RESPONSIBILITY that comes with freedom of speech.
I would imagine that an uprising of common folks and other leaders to demand the commonn sense requirements espoused by Bishop Nazr-Ali would do much good in this regard.
SPEAK UP you leaders--stop hiding behind the PC intimidation and traditions. SPEAK up while we still have a CHANCE to save our countries from this death wish of islam radicalism.
Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali totally, totally gets it. He is a true Briton.
Those who were born into Islam and became apostates, or as in the case of Nazir-Ali are the children of apostates, and raised in societies suffused with Islam, are the most valuable of analysts of Islam, and of the psychology of Muslims. For "the psychology of the Musulman" (the Englished title of Andre Servier's polemical study), is a peculiar psychology which proves for Western man, the man of ordinary intelligence, and conventional upbringing, finds so difficult to comprehend, given the penchant of that ordinary Western man to make false analogies and discover false similarities between Islam and other faiths.
Listen to Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Wafa Sultan and the other apostates. Listen to Walid Shoebat and Bishop Nazir-Ali.
They should be heeded. And publicized.
Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said his comments were not “very helpful for community relationships”.
_____________________
I an sick and tired of hearing honest dialogue being rejected as "not very helpful for community relationships."
No, here is what is truly NOT helpful in dicussion; whether it is inter-religious dialogue or political dialogue.
Lying and being un-truthful about your honest stance on an issue is not helpful. If you truly believe that non-Muslims should be 2nd class citizens and forced to pay a tax ... then be honest about it.
If you believe that the Bible and the Torah are corrupt ... then by honest about it.
If you desire Islam to be the only religion ... then be honest about it.
In my mind, at this time, inter-religious dialogue and politcal dialogue are pointless.
I realize that the Catholic church repeatedly calls for dialogue, but for dialogue to be of any use you must have honesty. Right now, there are not two equal and honest parties. Dialogue is meaningless when the other party has no compunction about lying to you; and then turning around and play victomhood while beheading one of your citizens.
Whether one lives in the United States, or in the United Kingdom, or Europe; one should be loyal to that country. I might be a Christian, but as a United States citizen I also am willing to respect and follow a the constitution. If I don't like a particular law; I have the right to politely and respectful voice my opinion and attempt to persuade others through reason and logic the validity of my argument. Muslims, it would appear, seem to believe that protests; throwing rocks, beheadings, and other violent acts are the accepted means of social discourse.
Any citizen that chooses not to reject such actions should be removed from this country. Violence as means of social discourse is anti-democratic and yet, the so-called Left, has done nothing but graval at the feat of Islamic-fascists.
Well,said and this is absolutely “very helpful for community relationships”.
Although he better watch out that he does not end up like Nick Griffin BNP leader.
On trial this week for Race Hate.
Perhaps some readers would like to follow his plight.
Nazir-Ali is a highly influential leader, so this is excellent news. But just watch the Anglican Church abandon him if Muslims now start to kick up a fuss.
“Their complaint often boils down to the position that it is always right to intervene when Muslims are victims, as in Bosnia or Kosovo, and always wrong when the Muslims are the oppressors or terrorists, as with the Taliban or in Iraq,”
This is why if the West falls, Islam goes with it. The West always stupidly saves Islam from the jaws of victory. Serbs attack Muslims, the West demands they stop it. Earthquake hits cesspoolia, the West sends aid. Civil war in cesspoolia- the West sends peacekeepers. West criticizes terrorism-Look Out! What WOULD they do without us?
Interesting programme on German TV tomorrow
ARD
1529 Gates of Vienna
I believe this fellow was on the Dennis Prager show some months ago.
He was extremely imformative and Prager was going to have him return, though I'm not sure that happened.
He may be one of the reasons that Prager 'gets it' more than most.
Muslim Women
Go Asian man, kicking ass! Wooooo!
Nazir-Ali, who was born in Pakistan and whose father converted from Islam to Catholicism, said radical Islam was being taught in mosque schools across Britain.
An apostate? The answer is simple: saw his head off, and his dad's too if still alive.
Anybody got a butter knife?
Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said his comments were not “very helpful for community relationships”.
I couldn't agree with you more, but they were spot on
The good bishop may be in need of some support, as it is quite likely that the dhimmi Anglican clergy led by the Archdhimmi of Canterbury may pressure Bishop Nazir-Ali to recant.
So here is his email. I'm sure he will appreciate your letter of support.
Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, MA, MLitt, PhD
Bishop of Rochester
e-mail: dio.off@rochdiooff.co.uk
Since when has Islam been helpful to community relations?
Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali is bang on.
Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, as usual implies some sort of threat - true to form. His dodgey syrup reflects his religion - obviously fake and worthy of derision.
For those not convesant with certain ancient English slangs, particular to this example, the Cockney variety (poor Cockneys, a threatened ethnic minority.....even in their own city).
Syrup = a Wig, Rug or Toupe.
Hail to Bishop Nazir-Ali~! It is time for non-Muslims to stand up and challenge the islamic cult.
IT LONG PAST TIME THE UK TOOK THE STANCE THAT TO BE A VICTEM YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT AND HAVING TO LIVE UP TO THE UKS STARDARD OF CONDUCT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A VICTEM AND FOR THAT MATER WHAT ABOUT THE VICTEMS OF THE FOLLOWING BELIFE
There is an aggressive delusion amongst the Muslims that the lands which they overrun once, always remain Muslim lands. believing the Muslims have a birthright to invade any non-Muslim land on the pretext of converting the non-Muslim population to Isla
m, the victims of the Muslim invasion have no right to eject the Muslims! They have to meekly subject to the will of the Muslims, who invoke the name of a fantasy they called AllahAND IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ALSO HAVE THE aggressive delusion that no one should be able to question islam and definotkly a kafir ; but the are very good at useing our western leagle system and media against us
"..Whose father converted to Islam..."
My heart goes out to him. What is not sufficiently emphasized is the sate of terrifying insecurity in which the few christians living in Muslim countries live.
Everyone is strangely silent about this. Or few want to know about it.
It would be a good tool to repeatedly slap CAIR's face with.
No amount of disconfort of "suffering racism" in Western countries by Muslims compares even remotely with the sheer intimidation, slander and terror christians in Muslim countries have to "live" their daily lives with.
And this is something the Muslims have no intention to arrange.
poor Cockneys, a threatened ethnic minority.....even in their own city True, sadly.
This is rhyming slang, btw, syrup of figs = wig.
Syrup of figs is an old fashioned laxative.
This is not the first time Bishop Michael has spoken wisdom on the subject.
This bishop is sadly right.
For those here who wants to keep up the fight, there is a very good french litterature regarding what we call here revolutionnary islam. Some very famous french philosophers of the moment see in islam something that is of the same essence as the revolutionnary communism, elaborating a kind of cocktail of thirdworldism (to be the victim) and western masochism (that enable the muslims to deploy their domination) while a strong lobbying is made to cover Europe of a carpet of mosque, those modern gaz chamber of the intellect.
From my french perspective, the fight will be long and hard. Nethertheless, things are moving positively sometimes: as I described in my blog liberta-universalis (unfortunately in french), one of our famous french politician from the traditionnalist right wing (Phillipe de Villier) has proposed to ban the islamic headscarf from every public places including, of course, the street. Surprisingly, during a debate on Europe1 (very famous french radio station), many socialist voters calling to give their opinion agreed on that arguing with statements such as "In France, there are not enough immigrants but there is too much islam", "Let's be intolerant with intolerance", "the veil is profoundly offending my very idea of mankind". Of course this has not the value of a true opinion survey, it reveals nethertheless some kind of conscience awakening that will hopefully reach soon the top of our political parties.
But, yes, how can we destroy this muslim double standard attitude? Instead of complaining, it is time, I guess, to spread facts about the islamic civilization so that will only pop up to the mind of people the dominating character of this civilization. They are not victims they are plaguers who historically only had to suffer colonization, well nothing compared to the enslavment of millions of Africans and Europeans. The best reply to this victimhood would be to seed the shame in their minds and fire dissension in the midst of the thirdworlders.
Hurrah for Nazir-Ali.
The 2nd Battle of Britain will be much nastier I think. To quote Steyn, "Somalia with chip shops"
"Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said his comments were not “very helpful for community relationships”."
Who cares!
The only "community relationship" I'm interested in having with Islam is standing on the quayside and waving them off as they set sail on their slow boats back to wherever they originated.
I don't think I'd have much trouble signing up a crew to initiate an entirely different kind of "community relationship" once they left territorial waters ...
Once I am dead Islam will be its own worst enemy.
Hugh said:
Agreed. And too often we are cognitively self-centered and assimilate whatever we observe to the concepts we already possess. We tend to perceive everything in our own image. We'd do better to accomodate our thinking anew to each new thing we observe.
To extend a bit my last comment, regarding cognitive self-centeredness: The ancient Egyptians (like other ancients), for example, took their own situation as definitive for all other situations. Having known only the Nile, the Egyptians assumed that flowing downstream must universally mean flowing north. The Egyptians thus had to conceive the southward flowing Euphrates as "flowing upstream," even when it was clear to the Egyptians themselves that the Euphrates was not flowing upstream. Thus the Egyptians referred to the Euphrates as "that crazy upside down river that, in flowing downstream, flows upstream."
I'm also reminded of that polar explorer who was walking north for many miles, and could not understand how it was that his position, when checked, in fact proved to be moving southward. At it turned out, he was trekking north over a huge ice mass that was floating south.
A starting point of cognitive self-centeredness is to some degree inevitable.
Le Cid - if you're still checking in: can you tell us what the feeling is in France these days? How advanced is the Intifada? What do you see evolving in the next 18 months?
Well, I just finished a book about this. Indeed, some people consider what happend one year back as an intifada. I do not consider myself as a colonist neither do I consider the french "banlieues" (suburbs) as a european Gaza strip or west bank. Of course on a daily basis buses and cars are attacked and burned down, last week with a 26 years old student women inside, burned at 60% and still fighting for life. The criminals have been caught by the police and though they are teenager it seems that nothing will prevent them to get 30 years.
Of course, policemen are ambushed and honestly it is a miracle that they keep their self control.
Besides that, the situation is still very tense. Hopefully unemployment is sharply decreasing, maybe this will help to relax the atmosphere.
One remark, the riot of last year was not religious. Much more a racist movement against the "faces de craie" ("chalk face", like me) and basically the failure of the educationnal system. But it will be too long to summarize everything here, and it is not the purpose.
'Christians Ask if Force is Needed to Protect their Religious Values'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nrelig05.xml
'A leading church group which represents more than a million Christians has raised the prospect of civil unrest and even "violent revolution" to protect religious freedoms.
In a startling warning to the Government, senior church and political figures have backed a report advocating force to protest against policies that are "unbiblical" and "inimical to the Christian faith".'
Wow, 'victimhood and domination'!
Sounds like the Democratic Party or the ACLU.
Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali shows the Brits an example of anti-dhimmitude. Will this example be followed?