Here's what happened, from "Dissent Crushed: Why Muslims Rarely Speak Out, Even In U.S.," by Adam Brodsky in the New York Post, with thanks to all who sent this in:
November 19, 2006 -- MUSLIMS are often accused of not speaking out sufficiently against terrorism. Nonie Darwish knows one reason why: Their fellow Muslims won't let them.Darwish, who comes from Egypt and was born and raised a Muslim, was set to tell students at Brown University about the twisted hatred and radicalism she grew to despise in her own culture. A campus Jewish group, Hillel, had contacted her to speak there Thursday.
But the event was just called off.
Muslim students had complained that Darwish was "too controversial." They insisted she be denied a platform at Brown, and after contentious debate Hillel agreed.
Weird: No one had said boo about such Brown events as a patently anti-Israel "Palestinian Solidarity Week." But Hillel said her "offensive" statements about Islam "alarmed" the Muslim Student Association, and Hillel didn't want to upset its "beautiful relationship" with the Muslim community.
When asked why Darwish was disinvited, a Brown Hillel member responded:
Thanks for getting in touch with me. I appreciate the fact that you would like to explore this issue further. These are excerpts from articles that Nonie Darwish has written: (they can be found at http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/authors.asp?ID=1176, which I encourage you to look at)- To be a Moslem is to belong to that bigger holier-than-thou, self-righteous group whom they try, but fail to emulate...
- Women with Muslim attire in the United States create a wall between themselves and the rest of the population and have a mission of spreading Islam...It is the Muslim women's form of jihad - without the violence - but it could be aggressive. Remember some of these women raise their sons to become terrorists and give up their lives to jihad.
- So why do these Muslims who want to adhere to strict Muslim dogma choose to leave Muslim countries and come to live with the infidels? They obviously behave as if Islam is the center of their life and existence. I can understand if they choose to live here because of a temporary business assignment or government job such as with an embassy. But why would a Muslim woman who wants to follow Islamic law to the letter, for her and her family, choose to live in the West and the U.S.?
I think we, as Jews, should be especially sensitive about comments which criticize strict religious observance and deem it unacceptable in America. I know from speaking to my Muslim peers who do wear Muslim attire, that they were extremely offended by this characterization of them as "extremists". I am an observant Jew, and I would be be equally offended if the Muslim Student Association decided to invite a speaker to criticize observant Judaism.Brown Hillel is very committed to presenting a variety of perspectives on Israel, but there are ways to sponsor a speaker who praises Israel -- without denigrating Islam. I thnk that Nonie Darwish has a fascinating life story, and an interesting perspective to bring to the table, but I do not think it was appropriate for Brown Hillel to be the sole sponsor for this event.
A group of students active in Hillel requested that we co-sponsor the event, and we went through a careful decision-making process, which involved input from the students who were organizing the event, students across the spectrum who care passionately about the Middle East, and heard concerns from the Muslim community. After reviewing all this input, the Brown Hillel student board decided not to sponsor the event. It was a thoughtful decision, and I absolutely stand by it.
The Jewish and Muslim communities have a great relationship on campus, and I am glad representatives from the Muslim community voiced their concerns to us (and they did so in a very respectful way). I am confident that if the opposite situation would arise, the Muslim Student Association would heed our concerns in return.
I hope this has been helpful and informative. If you have any more questions, I am happy to help answer them.
Hillel Stavis, a board member of CAMERA (Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America), wrote this reply to the Hillel member:
I have read the articles which you sent me by Nonie Darwish from Front Page Magazine.com. Thank you for forwarding them to me. Among others, one passage from her writing you omitted from your selection was:"I pray for Moslem countries to see the light that all men are created equal and not that all Moslems are created equal. Many come to this great nation in search for material gain which is fine, however, the biggest prize I gained was my religious freedom and to find myself in the glory of God."
I take issue with your decision to ban Ms. Darwish from speaking. Your decision to disinvite (read "ban") Ms. Darwish re: potential similar remarks uttered by a speaker at a Muslim Student Association fails on a number of counts:
Firstly, there is little basis in comparing Islam - which is a self-avowed institution whose advance (see Suras 9-5, 9-12, etc. of the Koran) for over a thousand years has been accomplished primarily through war and forced conversions ( or relegation to de jure subjugated second class status) of non-Muslim populations (including our own as Jews) from North Africa to the Indus Valley and beyond - with Judaism which, as you know, from its beginnings in the Tannnaitic period has de-emphasized conversion with prohibitions specifically against violent conversion; let alone the fact that Judaism has been stateless for the last two thousand years. Unlike Islam, it has possessed neither a military nor a sovereign political embodiment since the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem.Secondly, you fall into the trap of the "Abrahamic Faiths" construct, insofar as you subscribe to the neatly posited notion that there are 3 "faiths" stemming from Abraham. ( a decidedly Israelite figure who rejects Ishmaelites according to scripture ). Islam, has, from its birth, conducted itself as a political and military, temporal power much like any totalitarian movement of the twentieth century. Yes, there is Sura 2-256 which speaks of "no compulsion in religion", but, according to every school of Muslim theology for the last 1400 years, that earlier verse is "abrogated" by the scores of later verses that commit every Muslim to convert - either by persuasion or by force, if necessary - the entire world to Islam. Judaism has no such mainstream tradition.
Were a fascist political party to ask to speak on campus, characterizing their activities and goals as a "faith", I have no doubt you would do your utmost to expose them to the light of day.
Thirdly, Jewish groups have had no problem whatsoever in inviting speakers critical of historical Christianity or of Judaism itself. James Carroll, a writer whose opinions can easily be construed as derogatory of Christianity, is a frequently invited speaker on campuses. I ask you, in all honesty, would you ban a speaker at Brown who wanted to give a lecture on the outmoded use of sheitels (wigs) by orthodox women?
I am personally offended by Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pappe, two nominal Jews who I consider to be antisemites, but I would never consider banning them from speaking at the Brown Muslim Students Association (indeed, these two speakers are part of the anti-Israel repertoire at many campus Muslim venues). Their hatred speaks for itself and they are the best spokespersons for the defense of Israel I can think of.
Fourthly, you must agree, a large number of Muslims (most would agree that the numbers are in the millions if not hundreds of millions) while perhaps not subscribing to the tradition of violent jihad warfare, nevertheless, favor the destruction of the State of Israel. Every poll taken in every Muslim country (there are 56 of them at last count with some African countries soon to join the group) reflects this desire. We have Ms. Darwish, among a handful of Muslims, who have extended a hand (we don't have to emphasize how dangerous a risk they have taken) of peace and tolerance to us and the West. Of course in Israel, itself, and elsewhere the identification with violent Palestinian causes by even some Jews has become de rigeur and carries absolutely no risk - e.g. Avi Shlaim, Ilan Pappe, Adam Shapiro etc.
Moreover, Ms. Darwish, Walid Shoebat, etc. come from within contemporary Muslim reality, not as outsiders or "orientalists". Every mainstream Muslim group has attempted to silence them. By giving in to this repression Brown Hillel has betrayed its obligation to free speech. Their information is critical in understanding the existential threat to Jews in particular and to the West in general.
Lastly, we as Jews have an obligation to honor and to listen to "the Other". We are commanded by Torah to speak truth to power not even shirking from arguments with G-d. When the very existence of our people is threatened daily by radical Muslims, we should have a heightened sense of obligation to speak the truth and to welcome those Muslims who have grown up in a system of hate who have a chance to influence other Muslims.
Where is the line between "sensitivity" and censorship? I applaud the good relations Brown Hillel has with the Muslim community on campus, but that relationship is best served by hosting all opinions no matter how vigorously we disagree with them. If we arbitrarily exclude voices that someone considers "offensive" you might as well limit your speakers to Barbie, Ken and The Teletubbies.
If your decision to ban was based on security issues, then say it. Don't lead us astray by claiming "sensitivity". If nothing else, by now, there isn't anyone in the world unaware of the intent and ability of radical Muslims to carry out violent acts against perceived "defamers" of their faith. You note that members of the Brown Muslim community “voiced their concerns in a very respectful way.” The past six years alone from the Danish cartoon controversy to the Pope’s remarks must have had the desired effect on you as they have had on non-Muslims everywhere – a veiled threat (no pun intended). Let’s not bowdlerize it.
When Bertrand Russell penned his famous "Why I Am Not a Christian", he toured the world in absolute safety to the acclaim of intellectuals. Ibn Warraq recently wrote "Why I Am Not a Muslim" and must resort to a nom de surete, dark glasses and bodyguards wherever he speaks. Ms. Darwish, who speaks for millions of muslim women, is similarly threatened. Is this the cowardly new world we’re destined to inherit?
I always thought students and administrators in a university setting would preserve the traditions of freethinking and free speech. Your actions have taught me otherwise.
Meanwhile, don't miss Nonie Darwish's book. Some of the endorsements it has received, including one from me:
"Nonie Darwish a woman of great courage with an amazing story to tell.... Readers who pick up her book will find their views of the world irrevocably changed before they put it down." -David Horowitz, author of Unholy Alliance: Radical Islam and the American Left"All Americans should note well the reasons why Muslims now consider her an 'infidel' -- this could be the most important lesson non-Muslims in the West will ever learn."
-Robert Spencer, author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)"Indispensable insight into the world of Islamic radicalism and jihad.... This inspiring tale of redemption will serve as an uplifting reminder to proponents of democratic values in the Middle East that our message of equality and God-given freedom is inexorable and will yet penetrate the resistance of the jihadists to find its way into the hearts and minds of the people of the Arab World."
-Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, author of It Takes a Family: Conservatism and the Common Good"Anyone who wants to understand the real meaning of the clash of civilizations between radical Islam and the West should read this book."
-Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado, author of In Mortal Danger: The Battle for America's Border and Security"Now They Call Me Infidel is a book of great humanity, intelligence, and courage. If ever there is to be peace between Arabs and Israelis, it will have to be along the lines depicted by Nonie Darwish."
-David Pryce-Jones, senior editor, National Review"This is a breakthrough book.... Nonie Darwish is one of the most compelling voices for moderate Islam and against extremist violence."
-John Loftus, President, the Intelligence Summit"Nonie Darwish indicts the Middle Eastern and Islamic culture she left behind, exposing what she calls the 'rigid psychological wall' imposed by religious and political leaders, the 'giant machine of oppression' that dominates society, and the dysfunctional 'culture of arrogance, pride, and shame.' Fleeing to the United States, she found happiness - but also a growing infrastructure of radical Islam that she has bravely and effectively confronted."
-Daniel Pipes, author of Militant Islam Reaches America"We should all be thankful to Nonie Darwish for writing this insightful book on jihad and the global war on terror. As Darwish states in this great exposŽ, nothing will change in the Islamic world until the voices in the mosques preach love and peace."
-Paul Vallely, major general, U.S. Army (Ret.), coauthor of Endgame"This call for peace should be read by everyone and taught in schools.... The free world owes Darwish an invaluable debt for her struggles for freedom."
-Bat Ye'Or, author of Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis
Islam is the mother of all totalitarianism-the best known from the 20th century are nothing compared to this one. How can it be reformed when it silences all questions, even the most mild ones? No wonder it appears that the only way to stop its spread appears to be either removal of its adherents from the West or the total destruction of said adherents-neither prospect easy or pleasing. Still, I hope there is some way from within that can somehow tame this beast before the infidels have no choice but to utterly destroy it.
Apparently the "moderate" Muslims aren't hiding on college campuses either.
Hmmm. That's strange. Wouldn't that be the logical place to find enlightened, secular and/or reformist Muslims (if they exist at all)?
Instead, more walls to truth are built quickly and efficiently by Muslim groups, in every form, in the United States and Europe, at every opportunity.
Yes, we're definitely going to be able to get along with these people. There's nothing to fear from thought-police...nothing at all....
Isn't that the same woman who's featured on OBSESSION?
Muslim students had complained that Darwish was "too controversial." They insisted she be denied a platform at Brown, and after contentious debate Hillel agreed.
Okay, lets rewind the tape and look at this thing frame by frame. It was Hillel who cancelled the Darwish speech.
Why?
The Jewish and Muslim communities have a great relationship on campus, and I am glad representatives from the Muslim community voiced their concerns to us (and they did so in a very respectful way).
No doubt it was respectful in the sense Hillel was not bombed.
I am confident that if the opposite situation would arise, the Muslim Student Association would heed our concerns in return.
Perhaps this is true while your Muslim study partner is in town. Will your study partner really cancel a meeting by an immam advocating the distruction of all Jews, including you, because the quaran demands that muslims do so?
It should be an interesting spectical indeed, and I venture to say, that your arabic is insufficient to know what the holy immam is saying anyway!
I think we, as Jews, should be especially sensitive about comments which criticize strict religious observance and deem it unacceptable in America. I know from speaking to my Muslim peers who do wear Muslim attire, that they were extremely offended by this characterization of them as "extremists". I am an observant Jew, and I would be be equally offended if the Muslim Student Association decided to invite a speaker to criticize observant Judaism.
Child; I suggest that you are too stupid to know the difference as to wheather or not you should be offended.
The PC multiculturalist disease may kill you before your study-buddy in the other cubical ever gets a chance!
All is bliss.
It all depends on your definition of free speech and hate speech.
University Free Speech: The right to free speech is really, on campus, is the right to criticize the tyrany of the majority. Only minority opinions can be expressed openly in campus subsidized forums. Expression of other views might cause hurt to a minority opinion group, and as a hurt minority opinion holder, those members would have the right to lash out and perform criminal in civil disobedience. Thus effectively stopping the hate(in their opinion) speech. The university cannot risk a riot, so sorry you cant express any opinion in any forum on campus that might hurt a minority. So free speech becomes hate speech, if there is one person, who is the member of a minority opinion group, on campus, that could be upset by it.
greetings Freinds..
i really like the Hillel Stavis' response to Brown Hillel because there is much that Muslims can learn about their own interaction with Faith. In order to stem the rise of intolerance within islam, an alliance is needed between the East and the West. the West provides the means to protect the shelter that allows for honest and open discussions of reform while the East has the most acces to the Muslim individual. Unless there is alliances there will be more suffering. Hillel Stavis remarks on abrogation are important since abrogation does set the example for the Muslim that changing or reinterpreting verses is within Quran itself. These abrogation examples hint that it is proper to change existing revelation, unfortunatly this can mean changing to more harsh interpretations. As a Muslim I believe that Allah has led me to you to dialogue and not to fight but in the spirit of peace and humanity.
Stavis wrote:
" We are commanded by Torah to speak truth to power not even shirking from arguments with G-d."
Since Muslims still believe that Allah also revealed the Tora, it is advisable to take the good portions from the Tora and consider them as sunna or strongly recomended for the Muslim...i think this above quote is vital...so Allah says something in the Quran that is questioned...tell it to Allah...tell Him it is causing suffering...if Allah is the Cherisher of the Worlds as Quran says than a Muslim has the obligation to reconcile this...to question authority so to speak out of love for creation and Allah. But this kind of message will not get to the Muslims unless there is an alliance between moderate and liberal Muslims and Moderate Westerners...
Peace to All...
Champ-
I believe she is. She's one brave lady isn't she? She was going to speak about Jihad but no....
I think I remember seeing a picture of her in OBSESSION as a tot, held by her smiling mother. Her mother looked like a Chanel model! Imagine being a small child and hearing your beautiful mother had to shroud herself, that she was only worth half a man, ad nauseum.
This place is supposed to be a school of higher learning?
Muslims are aware that their is a dark force within Islam and they protect it like the bad seed it is. If anyone is allowed to pull back "the veil" and see the actual substance underneath, the masses would be horrified at the motivations and cultural combinations using koranic verses!
The truth of the matter is, that Islam and the koran are not strong enough to withstand any critical eye. Muslims understand this. Muslims number one social destination to the western psychi is to make their "religion and political sharia" exempt from scrutiny of any kind. Mohammed taught them this.
Just as they hide their women; their ego and future is carved in stone on hiding the truth about the foul smell of Islam. Get too close to the unveiling and there will be a protest!
As a Jew, all I can say is thank G-d for CAMERA!
I am thankful that Judaism allows for vast differences in opinion and methods of religious observance. Nonetheless, I feel that the Brown Hillel has made a terrible mistake - if we can allow Holocaust deniers to post on this web-site, surely Brown University's Hillel can allow a reformist Muslim to speak on campus.
Sadly, I think University/Academic culture is doomed vis a vis its adherence to blind "political correctness" and taking great pains to show deference to those who would not return the favor. I think I'm gonna home school my kids for their college years!!
Jihadlove,
I thought you had to go to work, now you're trolling another thread. AFTER you said you would only dialogue with Hugh and Battle_of_Tours.
Now you're back to your tripe about peaceful coexistence, before you alternated with Islamic supremacy and imperialism. I thought you didn't lie and were "transparent".
This is censorship...
i am at work...
no i was doing that for a little drama...i actually am rather liberal...i was born and raised in Los Angeles...BUT i am a muslim too....
Peace...
i do not Hate america nor do i hate americans...i really am becoming much more seriously interested in the intolerance found within Islam...I do not want to change my Faith because i enjoy Monotheism...but i do think tht there has to be dialogue on this issue in order to avoid more suffering...
I think it is important to dialogue on the articles posted herein in order to approach the problem of intolerance on both sides in a multi and pluralistic society...
"Drama".
Drama sounds more like taqiyya to me. I guess your moniker is for "drama", too?
enough about me...i'd rather read discussion about the article and try to understand why there is this level of censorship and how we can remove it...
enough about me...i'd rather read discussion about the article and try to understand why there is this level of censorship and how we can remove it...
Posted by: jihadlove
Fair enough.
We can remove this censorship by so called Moderate Muslims personally vowing to be scrupulously honest regarding their scriptures, faith, and intentions for being in this country. Then they can stop staging incidents trying to provoke law enforcement so as to bring lawsuits trying to alter and limit our system of civil liberties. They can focus their attention on civil rights and human rights abuses in countries which claim to have the "true" Islam that is supposedly hijacked ("hijacked for nearly 1400 years), thereby showing real support for these freedoms. And, they can quit playing the victim and stop pressuring their host countries' governments, media, and universities to silence speech critical of their neglect of performing the above.
There, censorship ended. Then, when they have stopped being hypocritical, more people will be interested in what they have to say.
I tend to believe that Jihad is simply striving to perfect oneself...I dont know arabic so i am not certain what the actual meaning of jahada might mean...in the case of defense of self i think that might also mean a type of jihad...for instance if someone attakced me and i fought back i think that might be labeled a type of Jihad...
"We can remove this censorship by so called Moderate Muslims personally vowing to be scrupulously honest regarding their scriptures, faith, and intentions for being in this country. "
I agree...honesty is of vital importance in finding the TRUTH... The Quran says (please bare with me i know you probably dont like this book) but it says that Allah created the heaven and the earth in Truth...so this tells me that underlying existence is Truth...somehwere hidden within self is Truth...we must look for it.
Of the subject...does anyone know where there mught be info regarding the allegation that at one time there existed several versions of the Quran? Aparently kaliph oosman got rid of all the versions except for one that he favored for some reason...?
Thanks
Peace
Jihadlove,
Re: does anyone know where there mught be info regarding the allegation that at one time there existed several versions of the Quran?
I haven't time to quote specifics but Ibn Warriq's book what the koran says has examples and sources
Yours
@ jihadlove
Islam is NOT MONOTHEISM
Islam is HENOTHEISM
Henotheism: (hen‧o‧the‧ism)
1. the worship of a particular god, as by a family or tribe, without disbelieving in the existence of others.
===================
1. You say you don't know Arabic. Here's a little lesson. "Allah Akbar" means "Allah is greater" Greater than what? Other Gods!
2. Think about it: Only a God in competition with other Gods would order the killing of His enemies followers. Otherwise, makes no sense that God would call his creatures "Vile" and many many other hateful names.
3. Allah is a proper noun, i.e. like John or Joe. It does not mean God. Allah is the name for Mohammads despotic tribal mascot.
"Allah created the heaven and the earth in Truth"
But Allah, being capricious, also changed his mind (abrogated verses, called mansukh, versus later, and abrogating verses, nasikh).
002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?
SHAKIR: Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?
Thus, he gave Mohammad Verses 3:28 and 16:106, so as to enable taqiyya (lying, dissimulation).
Huummm...
Henotheism yes i am familiar with that term...do you know if Judaism is also henotheistic specifically as mentioned that one is to have no other gods before G-d?...
Indeed there were many gods in pre islamic mekka...but in reality there is only one god...Allah i do know means il-llah or something like that meaning the god...
Words from another courageous woman of Muslim backround, Wafa Sultan, and the obvious implication about the supposed preponderance of "moderates" in the Muslim community here in the USA:
From an article in Dec. Reader's Digest:
Wafa has also paid a proce within the Muslim community in Los Angelos. Before she became a known activist, she had a busy social life with other Middle Eastern women. Today, few of her friends remain.
"They begged me to stop" she explains of the women in her circle. Some feared for her life; others reviled her message. Wafa summarizes their reation this way: "You can't make any change, so why are you risking your life?"
The Left has so permeated the universities, that even a Jewish group censors a moderate muslim like Darwish. A Jewish group. And Darwish is no Ali Sina. She says how she loves Islam, and would never speak a bad word about the Koran, or islamic culture, only terrorism. This is true. She has never spoken a bad word about islam. How courageous. Yet, even she is too "anti-islam" for the universities! And a university Jewish group at that!
Unbelievable.
Where are the Jewish groups fighting islam, I ask again? Can anyone on this forum, quote an instance where a Jewish organization has launched any type of protest, legal or otherwise, against any islamic activity within the West? And if so, how big was the Jewish organization and what was the date? With the exception of some Jewish commentators, who are speaking out as conservatives, and not speaking out as Jews, I find the lack of interest by the myriad of political Jewish organizations defeaning.
Thanks concerned citizen for your post...
It seems to me that these verses primarily reflect the omnipotence of Allah and Allah's soveriegnity...as the verses say nothing is forgotten nor abrogated unless something similar or better is revealed. There are standing absolutes such as the existence of Allah. these i do not believe can be abrogated...
I think you need to clean your rose colored glasses.
The latter Meccan suras (e.g. 9 and 5) are nasikh and abrogate those sweet Meccan mansukh verses. "Better" in this sense, means more violent, more intolerant, more totalitarian, etc.
"Better" in this sense, means more violent, more intolerant, more totalitarian, etc.
how do you know this...?
@jihadlove
Judaism prays: "The Lord our God is ONE"
That's monotheism.
Because Judaism believes in ONE GOD, it never prescribes the killing of followers of other Gods, like Islam does.
ultimatly...i think that if a quranic verse conflicts with reason and common sense than common sense and reason should apply and any verse that, in its application creates unwarrented suffering or causes war, death , etc...than this verse that does so must be annuled...
There are numerous chronological orderings of the suras. Some are by Muslims and some are by nonMuslim orientalists. They are quite similar.
Here is a reference you might trust from submission.org.
If two verses are in conflict exogetically, the latter one wins.
The Jews that take it upon themselves to join Hillel are "full-time" Jews. Although their religion is inspired, inspiring, mystical and truly amazing, they have divided allegiances just like their Islamic cohorts. Never forget that Islam is just a retarded form of Judaism.
thanks Concerned citizen for that chronology...
much obliged...
"If two verses are in conflict exogetically, the latter one wins."
i wonder who came up with this rule..? I dont accept it as binding on me, JihadLove...In islam there are no mediators between me and Allah...it is my own personal relationship with allah...sola scriptura
"i wonder who came up with this rule..?"
Allah.
Reposting:
002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?
SHAKIR: Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do ?
you not know that Allah has power over all things
~JihadLove...In islam there are no mediators between me and Allah...it is my own personal relationship with allah...sola scriptura
Yes there is Jihadlove, Mohammed is your mediator = the butcher of baghdad = the one that handed down the word of allah by gabriel! Allah never spoke to you direct. He dictates to you through the koran by the messanger of Mohammed. Islam rises and will fall with one man and that is Mohammed.
As for Islam being a true religion...the reality is...Faith that cannot be tested cannot be trusted! Do the math!
Based on "Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" this verse seems to also imply that, as i stated previously, that allah has authority over all things since, per the quran, allah is the creator and sustainer of all...
that revelation can mean to me that Allah does allow for the mutability of revelation...that revelation is not nor should be etched in stone in terms of intrepretation. I will let you have the last work CC and thanks Brother...
Peace
JihadLove...
My final word:
The Qur'an is a fixed revelation, a word-for-word transmission of an original document held by Allah. It cannot be altered, it must be accepted, rejected, or reinterpreted (exogesis, eisogesis).
Mohammad was the final prophet according to Islam. All the rest is hadith (sayings), seerah (traditions), and tafsir (commentary, interpretation). Innovation is disallowed (ijtihad). Verse 2:106 follows a temporal sequence, the latter abrogates the former.
Jihad means struggle for the sake of Allah. Looking after your ageing parents can be your jihad. Any good deed that takes effort; patience, kindness, self-restraint.
Allah comes from the Arabic al-ilah "The God"
LA ILAHA ILLA ALLAH means;
LA-(no) ILAHA-(god) ILLA-(except) ALLAH-(Allah)
A most emphatic statement of monotheism.
Allahu Akbar means Allah is the Most Great.
Allah is All Powerful, All Knowing, All Seeing and Created All. He is the Ever Living, Self Sustaining who does not sleep or rest. He Knows everything; what is to come and what has been and the secrets of the hearts; there is nothing like Allah.
Do not presume to interpret the Qur'an by yourself; the Words of Allah cannot be encompassed even by a brain as outstanding as yours.
Ms. Darwish's speech would have been very beneficial to these students, she should have been allowed to speak. Living here in RI all my life and seeing these kids that go to Brown, it's apparent that they are very rich, very spoiled and don't really have a clue what life is like in the real world. Thes kids are going to be our leaders someday??? G-D help us all.
Oh and I wouldn't be surprised if one of these muslim students from the land of arabia's daddies didn' have something to do with it either. Maybe pulling the plug on a multi million $ endowment.
"Do not presume to interpret the Qur'an by yourself; the Words of Allah cannot be encompassed even by a brain as outstanding as yours."
Posted by maryam
I won't presume that you were addressing me, but that was my point. Novel interpretations are not allowed.
So I recommend just rejecting it.
Mohammedans worship
the arabian moon god allah and mohammed.
Two, not one. And the black rock in mecca.
If mohammedans worship their arabian moon god allah
and his prophet mohammed and a black rock in mecca
does that mean they worship a trinity? Maybe.
Well, Maryam: how then can these words be interpreted by a brain such as yours?
If one brain is simply no good, why is another better?
Prophet Geoff
@maryam
A God that resides inside a black box is NOT "Most Great, All Powerful, All Knowing, All Seeing."
A God that commands his followers to CRUCIFY, AMPUTATE LIMBS, and KILL KILL KILL "his enemies" is not merciful,nor powerful,nor intelligent,nor sensible.
Allah is a JOKE. A murderous joke.
Any good deed that takes effort; patience, kindness, self-restraint........................................
Hmmm.....didn't bin laden use patience, self restraint and effort before 9/11?
Jihad=Bad
Funny and very entertaining watching "god believers" argue with each other over whose god is the real god, whose truth is the real truth, whose religion is true and whose is false...hilarious, like watching monkeys fling feces at each other.
Anybody else see Nonie's interview on the Glenn Beck show? She said something which is fatal to her goals to combat Islamic terror: she said she will not and cannot attack "the book" e.g. the Koran. Since all Islamic terror is justified by "the book", failing to attack and denounce the Koran means that the root of Islamic terror will remain intact no matter what else you do. I often see this error among self-proclaimed Muslim reformers, who consistently fail to proffer a specifically Islamic refutation of the jihad ideology, instead making an essentially secular argument against it. I suspect this is because they remain self-identified as Muslims, and making an Islamic argument against jihad calls into question their faith and reasons for remaining Muslim.
Nariz -- you are equally entertaining. Like watching a monkey hang himself.
Prove there is no God, nariz, prove it.
Nariz is a coward, Carolyn2, a self-righteous coward who has no interest in dialoging with lowly Christians. He thinks we're braindead and weak because we believe in a God that he cannot grasp.
His enjoyment comes from hating Christians, but who he really hates is himself because he's afraid -- afraid to be vulnerable and weak like us -- afraid to acknowledge that there is a God he will have to answer to some day. He's jealous of us, Carolyn, because we know a God he has chosen to reject.
It's easier to claim that there is no God -- that way nothing is required of Nariz. Pray for him, Carolyn, as I suspect he is one very lonely soul.
~JihadLove
Based on "Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" this verse seems to also imply that, as i stated previously, that allah has authority over all things since, per the quran, allah is the creator and sustainer of all...
that revelation can mean to me that Allah does allow for the mutability of revelation...that revelation is not nor should be etched in stone in terms of intrepretation.
This is one of the problems because Allah prefers to confuse the muslim's brain, which allows jihadist to justify their savagery by using Muhammed's words. Revelation in Islam is based on ""Muhammed says so"" When you look at Muhammed's life and follow his example, the result is pedofilia and murder. When you listen to Muhammed, He says "touch your nose" "Allah commands murder" "turn around" "Kill the infidel" "kiss the stone" Why? Because Muhammed says so.
Political Correctness and Upcoming World War III
http://www.terrorfreeoil.org/videos/ND112006.php
CNN Video
If you want to read Brown Hillel's cowardly reply and drop them a line you can find them here:
http://www.brownhillel.org/
I applied for admission there and was thankfully rejected many years ago. It would have ruined my life. I have one more child who will be of college age in a few more years and I have been encouraging him to go to a trade school.
Sad, the action by Brown Hillel and the spokesperson's remarks & justification for renigging on their invitation to speak. In fact, it's almost unbelievable. And don't for a moment thank that the favor would be returned by the Muslim student group - no matter how "inspiring" the relationahip between the two campus religious groups may be. And to think that the national Hillel solicits $$ to combat these very same PC outcomes!! (I can hardly wait to send a blistering letter of rejection next time I receive one of those impassioned solicitations!!)
But JihadWatch and other blogs that are exposing all these sickening incidents are serving a great purpose: To awake the sleeping giant (please, G-d!) that is America. The more these discussions increase, the more we will realize (at least those of us who aren't already fully aware)the danger that is growing - like a deadly cancer - in our society.
BTW, CAMERA is, indeed, another great organization struggling daily - and increasingly effectively - to report the truth about Israel and help refute the lies & distortions & cover-ups about radical Islam and the cult of death as practiced by the jihadis.
It is sad day for freedom of speech with the lastest Nonie's case. Where can subjects be discussed, debated and studied openly and constructively if not in the academies of high learning? It seems to me that this case of cancelling Nonie's speech is not an issue of the risk of alienating some groups, but also an issue of fear of the consequences associated with being exposed to alternative points a view about Islam other than the usual one? This mostly reflects the insecurities inherent in this religion (Islam) and the "not-so-sure" shacking ground the muslims found themselves in when they are questioned about their beliefs. These beliefs are grounded on intolerance, ignorance of history of religious thoughts and the total submission to the words of Allah and those immams who preach it.
How can this happen when Nonie was only trying to discuss her book. It is in print. Should they (Muslims students) boycott libraries that carry it, or should they announce a book burning ritual. I think their case would have been more defensible if they have done all of the above. I am saying this only because at least one would think that if one beleives in a cause then go all the way. Why create problems just because you do not like a person point of view. This destroys any opportunity for other individuals to hear and discuss the subject at hand.
When I first heard someone says: "the only good muslim is a former muslim", a dictum taken from general Sheridan's infamous racist slur: "A good Indian is a dead Indian", I was not sure about its accuracy, perhaps because it was associated with the campaign of extermination of Indians of the Great Plains in the 1800's. But of course there is no connection between them only the language structure and syntax.
Now I see why the first dictum about a muslim is becoming more and more accurate and reflects the situation we have now with Nonie not allowed to speak her views. But it also gives a proof that this absurd and "seemingly" sensitive feelings of muslims is only a pretext to much deeper disdain of free thought and speech.
Nonie's book is deeply personal and moving account of her transformation as a person of faith in humanity. I heard her speak in one of her book fair tour. She is an extrodinary person who can speak out of experiences growing up as a daughter of a well known Egyptian resistance fghter during the 1950's. I think students have missed an excellent opportunities to learn about politics, religion, culture and humanity (what is like to be human).