Commanders of French forces in Lebanon had threatened in mid-October to shoot at IDF overflights of Lebanon. It nearly happened on October 31. "French troops 'seconds' away from firing on Israeli warplanes," from Gulf News (the "Occupied Jerusalem" dateline is theirs):
Paris/Occupied Jerusalem: French Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said Israeli flights over Lebanon nearly caused a "catastrophe" last month, when French peacekeeping troops were seconds away from firing on Israeli warplanes.
The incident took place on October 31, when a squadron of Israeli F-15 fighter planes nose-dived over French peacekeepers' positions in southern Lebanon, Alliot-Marie told lawmakers at France's lower house of parliament on Wednesday night.
The planes were "clearly in attack position," she said, in comments broadcast on RTL radio yesterday. French troops responded by readying an anti-aircraft missile, and were seconds away from firing on the warplanes, she said.
"Our troops barely avoided a catastrophe," Alliot-Marie said. "Under these circumstances, our troops find themselves in a position where they have to fire in legitimate self defence." It was not immediately clear why the French troops decided not to fire.
The mock raids by warplanes last week over Beirut and other parts of Lebanon were Israel's strongest show of force since the end of its 33-day war with Hezbollah.
Captain Christophe Prazuck, spokesman for France's general staff, said the planes made three flyovers in the area.
"Thanks to the sangfroid of French soldiers, we avoided a catastrophe," he said.
Ugh.
French officials have regularly complained that Israel's overflights of Lebanon are counter to UN Security Council resolution 1701, which included the cease-fire that brought an end to 33 days of fighting between Israel and Hezbollah fighters on August 14.
[...]
The UN peacekeeping chief in Lebanon, Major General Alain Pelligrini of France, said last month that the flyovers violated the cease-fire resolution and warned that force might be used to stop the incursions.
The Israeli military said yesterday that it was unaware of any incident with French UN troops in Lebanon.
"We are not aware of this incident," a military spokesman told reporters.
Yesterday, the French government summoned Israel's ambassador to Paris to complain about the incident, according to French defence ministry officials.
A ministry official had earlier told reporters that the incident occurred on October 31 but declined to give the exact location.
A senior French officer with the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, insisted that the "Israeli army provocation" took place.
"The Israeli aircraft carried out a simulated attack," the official told the media on condition of anonymity.
The Israeli military spokesman said, however, that the "Israeli air force never carries out offensive overflights over south Lebanon".
French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said a caution would be given to the Israeli authorities, saying that "Israeli flights over southern Lebanon are a source of serious concern".
Israel says its continued overflights do not constitute a breach of the truce because Hezbollah has not disarmed and its two soldiers remain missing.
"Our troops barely avoided a catastrophe,..."
The bravery of inaction. Awards ceremony forthcoming.
when l read this my blood pressure peaked! what the F#$#$@$ dont those French peacekeepers complain about the Leb government not disarming the Fuc!@$@!$@# the hez boys! all those hez boys need to be disrmed.. until that happens Israel needs to protect itself. so screw you idoits in the French peacekeepers. l cannot believe my ancestors ever came from France, what a bunch of idoits! l think the gene pool that stayed in France has stagnated!
They made a great play about this on TF1, it was aimed at the Muslim population to make them think that La France is on their side. More toothless French postulating, they can't defend their own people so they have to look macho against someone who plays by their own rules. Pathetic as per normal!!
The only bright spot was Ms Royal in a debate with the two other clowns saying that she did not think that Iran should have nuclear capabilities period, the response by the other two was that Nuclear power yes, nuclear bomb no, as if the two are really mutually exclusive...
Guys what im proposing here is pretty time consuming but very much worth it in the end.
I propose that someone or some people can get together a large amount of anit Israeli claims like this with how they are proven incorect.
For example a list of all the significant anti israeli claims that have been proven false, with a list of proof.
This would then be taken by us the readers of J.W and spread by sharing with journalists in our respected areas, and also emailed to our peers.
What do people think?
I think this would be one of the most benficial things we can do aginst the liberal refferee the terroists and their "moderate" cheer squad.
Suggestions?
Falstaff: 'The better part of valour is discretion; in the which better part I have saved my life.'
It's the middle of the night, so I thought I was maybe asleep; but no, astonishingly I read:
"Paris/Occupied Jerusalem"
I woke up and got angry. Couldn’t a better source be found?
This is just a sure sign that these Mohammedans live in a fantasy world filled with mendacity and delusion. The enemy is backward, illiterate, and filled with outrageous Islamic superstition.
The truth is, there is not a single legitimate Arab state: they are all tyrannies and dictatorships. By using this source, the poster just propagates the Mohammedan fantasies.
Assalamau-Laikum all,
When this war started I told you that the prisoners would remain "intact"...infact you will see that in the not so distant future, Israel will release hundreds of internees for their two solders.
They better do it quick...or their boys will convert to Islam...and then they won't want to come back.
Already they are hearing ..and starting to like Islamic prayers...
the french have been on the arab side since de gall decided after ww2 that france would seek closer ties with its former arab colenies , and mr spencer i could be wrong bud didn't france vote nay in 48 against letting the state of isreal be formed o if the french are there as peace keepers bull shit its not isreal that they will protect but hezbala against the IDF air raids when the launch rockets
Just imagine had they launched the missiles. Would have put a positive spin on the foods "French toast" and "French fries".
The UN punks & cowards aren't making sure Hizb'Allah doesn't rearm and recover. So why should Israel honor and obey 100% of the UN cease fire resolution? The Leb army has also proudly proclaimed they won't thwart Hizb'Allah weapons shipments and bunker building.
These flights are needed. Reconnaissance flights are needed to photograph every Hizb'Allah construction project so that Israel knows what to demolish in the next war
The UN peace keepers will enforce nothing in the UN cease fire resolution that impacts on Hizb'Allah BUT they will try to enforce what concerns Israel.
This is why Jihadists worldwide love the UN. Moslems use the UN as a battering ram against Israel and the USA
They better do it quick...or their boys will convert to Islam...and then they won't want to come back.
In your f'ing dreams ya freak! You assume everyone else has a cabbage brain like yours. Only morons go Islam. Proof is that nearly every Muslim nation is a technologically backward fly blown cess pit. The Moslems with oil can bring in Westerners to slap a shiny modern veneer on the mess in Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar etc.... But it's still the same old 7th century Bedouin camel-thief mentality. Same old 7th century savages of the desert.
Propaganda and bad propaganda at that.
-The french didn’t fire to protect their own neighborhoods
-They are not stupid, cowards yes but not stupid, they would not fire on Israelis.
-No AA missile can be placed in a fire mode quick enough to get a lock on a plane already diving.
-The Israelis do not need to overfly french forces to scare them, a loud BOO would do.
This is a smokescreen to spin the UN up so it looks as if they are monitoring the activity on the ground. Great job france now shut the he** up.
That's right, Shy Guy, it would have been Freedom Fries down at the Kosher McDonalds that night.
It mightily amuses me how the Israelis were quaking in their boots after the irresistable French armed forces threatened to shoot their planes down if they continued those passes.
Obviously, the pride of the "Immaculate People Who Liberated Themselves (and we were never at war with Germany, actually)" was knocked by this lack of disrespect by the Joo, and that's why the Israeli ambassador was quick marched to Paris for a dressing down - like it was still the 19th Century or something. Those Old Europeans, eh?
I read on LGF that the UNIFIL forces (codename Yella' Frog) make sure they are hunkered down nice and safe at night. This is because, contrary to what they said to sell Israel this "peace", they have no intention to disarm Hizbollah. They only have to monitor behavourial changes in the local populace, and night patrols are irrelevant. Besides, and this is official, it would be too dangerous.
"Our troops barely avoided a catastrophe,..."
The bravery of inaction. Awards ceremony forthcoming.
Posted by: limes at November 10, 2006 01:53 AM
LOL
Israel has EVERY RIGHT to protect itself since the Useless Nations are making sure THEY aren't doing their job. I wish Israel had gone ahead and finished hezbo and palis and started work on Iran , then there would be no need for frenchmen to cry. We and other nations had no right to stop Israel's war to defend itself. Shame on us.
"For example a list of all the significant anti israeli claims that have been proven false, with a list of proof."
W_D_J_D - A good starting place for information might be:
www.theisraelproject.org
and UN Watch:
http://www.unwatch.org
There's also the Anti-Defamation League:
http://www.adl.org/main_Terrorism/default.htm
thanks Josephine.....
May Yahweh bless u!
ciao ciao
I don't believe the French or UNIFIL is in southern Lebanon any more. I think they have run away north of the Litani and left the south to Hezbullah.
Geeeeeeeez!!
Those Frenchies sure are heroes ever since the Vichy government.
To think in my univeristy study days I was a francophile,,silly me!
What a disappointment they turned out to be.
Maybe Napoleon and Louis XIV were their only heroes after all.
However,,,sadly in hindsight ,,what can we expect from them?? Paristine here it comes!
Mon Dieu!!!Le France est "done like a dog's dinner". Quelle dommage.
On TF1 we have had the story about bombing the power station in Lebanon at least 4 times, all showing the pollution caused by the Israeli bombing and showing fine upstanding bearded French greenies in their heroic efforts to undo the damage wrought by those war-mongering Israelis.
The last time they ran this story, it immediately followed some gushing praise over some cartoon film showing that Europeans and Arabs could get on together in the Middle Ages. Again showing that France was nice and cuddly to their home grown problem.
When those Hamas terrorists were covered by those females, which resulted in two women getting shot, there was no mention in the report on TF1 that the terrorists were hidden among the women. And the only male shot was a cameraman, as if...
so, the French and the Germans could be day dreaming Israeli aggression, eh? It wouldn't surprise me. It wouldn't have to be an organised campaign to blacken Israels name either. I am afraid that anti-semtitism is an inherent thing in the belief systems of some volk that we never got rid of.
It is merely the assumption that Israel, the Jews, are up to no good just because thats is how they are perceived. And it is rife.
Today on CNN, the "Right-On" journalists were complaining that a Gay Pride march had been limited to a football stadium because a full scale march through Jerusalem would be offensive to the religious. According to the great Sage that was the reporting journalist, it showed how Israel was still held back and divided by its religious foundation.
That's right, blame Judaism, why don't you. And I was completely bloody angry because where in the Muslim world will you find any expression of Gayness. Why doesn't the Eminent CNN man go to Saudi Arabia, and complain that gays are repressed by that country's religious foundation. Oh no, because they are far too chicken-s**t to do that, and the Perpetually Outraged must not be given another excuse to go on a rampage, because we don't have enough diapers in the CNN stock cupboard.
However, it's ok still to come up with the most bloody outrageous stuff about Israel and the Jews.
Assalamau Laikum W_D_J_D,
I assume by Yahwea, you mean the God in the Bible prior to “muslim interpretation” of Jesus PBUH.
I was interested in why you would simply resist from calling him “Allah” SWT.
I do call him Allah, SWT but looking at it in a bit of detail there are some slight differences…let me explore this point.
Let me say that like a childrens argument…while this has some of “your god versus my god” bias to it instead of simply exploring god, unfortunately it is you Christians have begged to differentiate between the two. however, let's continue:
1) Each God has a different plan for salvation. Allah says that Salvation is through performing good works. The Qur'an says, "Then, those whose scales (of good deeds) are heavy, they are the successful" (Surah 23:102). Each person's works will be scaled and if the good works are heavy then they will have salvation.
Surah 23:103 pronounces the doom of those who scales are heavy with bad works. They will go to hell…you peoples need to consider this carefully.
Yahwea on the otherhand says that salvation is obtained through faith in the death of His Son Jesus Christ PBUH and in His resurrection. It is by grace and not workload. Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works.
Good works is not sufficient for getting into heaven. He sees our good works as "filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6). Titus 3:5 says, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit."
This Good deeds vs grace is fascinating for me. In effect, Jesus PBUH still wants you despite you being a bad boy….this does not make much sense…Never in this world do you get something for nothing… W_D_J_D , be careful not to be duped.
Also all you non-believers out there have had it too.
2) These two Gods are different because one has a Son while the other doesn't have one.
Surah 6:101 says, "He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How can he have children when He has no wife? He created all things and He is the All Knower of everything."
We see from this that Allah does not need to have children because he is all powerful. Don’t talk of Laila and Manat…because Muhd SAW was tainted by the devil at this point.
Yahwea on the other hand has a Son. John 3:16. says "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
This is where I think your god lost it….if he is god…why can he only have one son…if he is all powerful…why can he not have other sons?
Allah can have as many sons/daughters/wives that he wants...he can simply create them…why is JC PBUH on his own…being a lonely child can be a harrowing experience.
I am beginning to think that one son is probably more an ideology rather than a physical thing?
Peoples, what is your take on this?
Utterly contemptible. The French have learned nothing. Still the same ignorant psuedointellectual yellow-bellied Nazi-worshipers they ever were. How pathetic. France, you are a yellow stain upon Europe, your "intellectuals" are retards and your leaders are maggots. France seems obsessed with doing everything it can to dishonour and dismantle the values and ethics multiple generations of our ancestors sacrificed their lives for. Listen up France - This time NOBODY IS COMING TO RESCUE YOU. Not me, not my children or theirs. Uncle Sam isn't going to come and deliver you, yet again, from your own moronic cowardice and corruption. If you're lucky (moreso than you deserve) maybe the Russians will come and "liberate" you. Again.
I'm embarassed of my French roots. If France slips any further into this abyss I'll be changing my name to something English, or maybe a nice Hebrew name.
It's Remembrance Day tommorow (11th Nov). Given that France has perhaps more to remember than any of us, their moral amnesia is disgraceful.
As I see it France has two possible futures - Sharia or Communism, both of their own making and with the latter probably following the former. Good show. Keep it up. The world expects nothing more or less from you.
Viva la ISSF (Islamic Soviet State of France).
It seems the French forces may no longer be content to serve as human shields for Hezbullah. It would figure that when the Frogs finally get the testicular fortitude to use deadly force for the first time since... what Napoleon? ... That they do so against the only free market democracy in the middle east, on behalf of an Islamo-fascist terrorist group.
There is nothing Heroic about the autocraticsm and the meglomania of Napoleon and Louis XIV, therefore, France had no heroes.
Especially when you view it from my side of the English Channel where we had Magna Carta, the Civil War and Parliament, the Scottish Enlightenment etc etc. I even claim the War of Independence as part of that proud tradition.
If you deny the rights of man, you are not a hero. If you lead armies with the intention of Empire building and to subject others to a tyranny, then you are no hero.
And this is why, as an English speaker with these ideas inherent to me, I am different to Europeans who seem to have this sort of preference for feudalism.
"May Yahweh bless u!"
W_D_J_D - Thank you! ; )
Naseem
Jesus does indeed want the sinners, and that includes you.
All you have to do is repent your sins. Not just saying, "I want forgiveness," but meaning it, to the core of your being.
People are under the impression that Jesus healed. In effect, the faithful healed themselves by believing. No one was coerced. No one was indoctrinated. The good work was done by coming to it by oneself.
And then the good work is maintained by continuing to honour God, and by being compassionate to your fellow man.
God does not have a son, in a sense. Jesus is God. Seems impossible? God can do as he pleases, can he not? Jesus is God suffering the trials and tribulations of man.
In the army, a good officer won't ask his men to
do something that he would not do himself. God let himself be nailed to a tree - for me. That has the most amazing impact on me.
Good to see you found your nearest Bible. Keep reading, don't force it - you find it for yourself.
Nasseem - comparing allah to God is offensive to both Abrahamic faiths. Please refrain.
Assalamau Laikum Domestos,
When you brought your Toshiba TV from Dixon's did you not compare the relative merits of it against a Sony for example.
I know this is not a good analogy...but without comparison...how can you know the merits of one against the other?
Instead of a simple all knowing throw-away one-liner , explain why it is offensive to you....I have done my research...outlining the advantages of believing in Allah SWT, either accept Allah SWT or explain why not?
For a change...here is a muslima asking YOU to open your mind...shukria!
The story in Gulf News comes from "Paris/Occupied Jerusalem."
This is wrong. The story comes from Jerusalem and Occupied Paris, the latter occupied by so many Muslims who terrify the French authorities and French people, as the Germans once did the last time we had an Occupied Paris. And in that fear the Muslim presence has created, the Muslims both in France and outside France now constrain, and thereby help to shape, the conduct of both foreign and domestic policy in France.
It is now Occupied Paris, in a semi-Occupied France (there are regions as yet impervious to the fear induced by the Muslim presence). France, once part of the West, once independent, once laic but with a legacy, well-recognized, that came from 1500 years of Christian or better or Judeo-Christian history (the term refers to the clear link between Judaism and Christianity, and does not require that there have been the active and fructifying presence of Jews, who were not fully part of France society until Napoleon's reforms), and now something else, a place where the worst of France -- the antisemitism and the anti-Americanism -- have been cleverly played on and encouraged by the Muslims and their ideological unpaid apologists and their treasonous paid collaborators, and thereby helped to shape a France that abandons the Lebanese Christians, saves Hezbollah, and dares to threaten to shoot down Israeli planes that are patrolling the skies to keep watch on Hezbollah since neither the French, nor the Germans, nor others sent to constrain Hezbollah have shown that they are willing to fulfill their task.
what advantages is there to beliveing in Allah and becoming a muslim? Killing innocent kafir and whoreing it up with 72 virgins. Ohhhhh wait I can beat my wife if she diobeys me !!! he he where do I sign up!!
/Scarasm off
"Thanks to the sangfroid of French soldiers,we avoided a catastrophe..."
-- from the article above, quoting a French military spokesman
Really? I would have thought the French soldiers knew perfectly well the Israelis had no intention of firing on them, or indeed firing at all. If it took "sangfroid" to refrain from firing, rather than mere common sense, then something is lacking.
If one wishes to find one side displaying "sangfroid" of the admirable kind in this sitatuion -- that is, not "sangfroid" as merely a way of describing ineffective, nearly paralyzed, behavior (which is how one might charitably describe the effect of the French soldiers in fulfilling their defined task in Lebanon, so quickly re-defined to relieve themselves of ever doing anything that might in the slightest be regarded as hostile by Hezbollah)--then the word "sangfroid" surely belongs to those careful Israeli pilots, and all the others in the Israeli military, who are holding back even as Hezbollah rebuilds, still waiting, still giving the U.N. forces one last chance to behave with semi-effectiveness, and their governments to exhibit semi-decency.
Mr. Fitzgerald basically noted what came to my mind. Here these French "peacekeepers" are so concerned about Hezbollah's ability to freely operate within Lebanon, to the point of claiming that they'll fire upon Israeli planes. Meanwhile, their OWN COUNTRY is being eaten from the inside by "angry, disenfranchised youths" (Jihadists).
Insanity is prevailing in France. They hate us (the US) so much that they've rejected all aspects of our country, to the detriment of their own national and cultural self-interests. They've rejected US, and to the point of embracing our enemies...who are in the process of destroying their country.
The French have gone completely mad. At least they fought in World War II. They were VERY poorly led, and used antiquated strategy leading to their quick defeat, but they fought for a few weeks against the Nazi blitzkreg.
Now, they won't even acknowledge that there's a war going on as its waging within their own borders. They're incapable of grasping that their nation's future hangs in the balance, as it burns before their very eyes. They've gone stark-raving mad.
This actually has a very simple solution. The palestinians want their own state and france apparently thinks they deserve it and are willing to risk their strike surrender troops if necessary. All we have to do is declare france as palestine. I for one would kick in a few bucks in the name of world peace (to help move them). The french get their wish and become a muslim safe haven. The palestinians get their own state. Israel gets some much needed breathing room. The USA can take none of the credit. Everyone wins.
French officials have regularly complained that Israel's overflights of Lebanon are counter to UN Security Council resolution 1701,...
And the influx of Hizballah, Hamas, Iranian, and Syrian missle batteries and troops is not, right?
Ahh, Qui! Bien!
Hey Nas,
It's official here in the UK. 'Islam is a wicked, vile faith'.
Put that in your pipe ol' gal.
French officials have regularly complained that Israel's overflights of Lebanon are counter to UN Security Council resolution 1701, which included the cease-fire that brought an end to 33 days of fighting between Israel and Hezbollah fighters on August 14.
Of course the continual supplying of Hezbollah by its friends is not a problem at all. I guess nowadays a cease-fire applies only to one side in a conflict.
The UN is less than worthless in this role. Worthless would mean the UN would look the other way as both sides violate the resolution. Here they blatantly favor one side.
Shame on France for this crap. This once great country has become a sad and sick joke in the world. The Ottoman Empire used to be called the "Sick Man of Europe". France qualifies for that title today. Hard to believe this country was once an ally of Israel. The French people deserve better leadership than the useless rabble currently in power.
Ladies and Gentlemen:
IGNORE NASEEM!
H/SHE IS A ZIONIST AGENT PROVOCATEUR!
I have proof!
I could understand if the French were thinking the f-15 assumed an attack posture. If an Israeli jet was coming straight for me with systems on I'd shoot at it too.
This actually has a very simple solution. The palestinians want their own state and france apparently thinks they deserve it and are willing to risk their strike surrender troops if necessary. All we have to do is declare france as palestine. I for one would kick in a few bucks in the name of world peace (to help move them). The french get their wish and become a muslim safe haven. The palestinians get their own state. Israel gets some much needed breathing room. The USA can take none of the credit. Everyone wins.
Posted by: Ronin at November 10, 2006 10:11 AM
Intriguing idea. Better than moving Israel, as A-Nut advocates. Maybe then the French people will act as the palestinians do in "the occupied territories". Give them a taste of their own medicine!
The whole face of mankind is slipping into madness. France is like a woman being gang-raped, but she is so completely mad that she doesn't even notice what's happening to her, while at the same time Lebanon is also being gang-raped by the same thugs, and France helps to facilitate it.
While this is happening, in THIS country we're constantly told by our media that white Christians are the enemy that needs to be fought and subdued, and that we ought to lie on our backs, spread our legs apart, and be more like FRANCE. I'm telling you, it's MADNESS!
Naseem -
How do you define "good works"? How does the Koran define them. Mohammad defined them by cutting off the heads/hands/feet of between 600-900 people. And radical Muslims define good works (apparently) by following in Mo's footsteps.
So again I ask you, how do you define good works? Since this is the pathway to heaven for a Muslim.
Jesus said many things about Himself, Naseem. Not only was Jesus the Son of God, but Jesus was God in the flesh. Jesus said He and "the Father are One", making Him co-equal with God. And God said that anyone who rejects Jesus as God, rejects God as well.
By the way, Jesus said in order to go to heaven you need to be "born again", and that our good works are not enough. And Jesus wasn't just talking to the Christian when He said that -- He was talking to Muslims, Hindus, etc, etc.
Please respond.
@americaningermany
you ask:
Can I share that proof?
Well, I have challenged Naseem to prove that he is not a Zionist Provacateur. I have called him a Jew (and a Zionist) in disguise and he has not denied it!
There! That's all the proof I need.
Naseem Ain't What He Seems
Just consider this: Everytime Naseem shows up on The Watch, the thread grows exponentially! He spews the smarmiest Mahdi Moslem mish-mash and all of us Islamophobes get our panties in a bunch. Even the quiet readers sitting on the sidelines jump in and pound on Islam. Combine that with the fact that Naseem has never denied my accusation.
I dunno but I smell a Zionist plot.
american -
Naseem seems to bring out the "slang" in you -- funny stuff!
I think Naseem is a "froll" (a good thing) that tries to shake us up and cause us to think.
In the event that she is the real thing...
allah is the fallen angel, Lucifer.
He sinned and was cast down from heaven.
He desired God's throne for himself and lusted after worship.
I will make myself like the Most High.
He appeared to muhamMad as an angel.
Gave his B.S. story about allah, and at first muhamMad knew he was being duped but his half-brained wife told him it had to be "allah".
You see, the 1 billion people who follow allah, follow the fallen one who lusts for worship and the blood of the true God's people.
I still think "Naseem" is someone from JW trying to play Allah's advocate and trying to see what reactions come about. Hugh, is that you?
Naseem Ain't What He Seems
Just consider this: Everytime Naseem shows up on The Watch, the thread grows exponentially! He spews the smarmiest Mahdi Moslem mish-mash and all of us Islamophobes get our panties in a bunch. Even the quiet readers sitting on the sidelines jump in and pound on Islam. Combine that with the fact that Naseem has never denied my accusation.
I dunno but I smell a Zionist plot.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2
Sounds about as put together as any other 'zionist' plot
Hmmm, let's see. France hits Israel, Israel kicks France's ass. They turn it up, we step in and kick France's ass. Hmmm?
Posted by: boxter at November 10, 2006 12:39 PM
After Israel kicks France's ass there won't be any ass left for anyone else to kick.
Naseem is a woman's name, and she is purportedly an ethnic Pakistani who lived in Britain for a while.
Regardless, Naseem is best ignore as "her" comments usually only stimulate vitriole.
Louis XIV was no hero. Whilst German states were allying with the Austrians and Poles in 1683 in the defence of Vienna, Louis XIV saw this as an opportunity to go on the warpath and ravage these German states whilst their troops were away. He sided with the Ottomans. So this is proof of the perverse nature of France.
"Our troops barely avoided a catastrophe," Alliot-Marie said. "Under these circumstances, our troops find themselves in a position where they have to fire in legitimate self defence." It was not immediately clear why the French troops decided not to fire.
Now they can fire on Isreali warplanes.. HOW COME they can't interdict hisboll weapons trafficking in South Lebanon??!!
C'est un peu drôle, n'est-ce pas?
When will Ms. Pelosi be passing out the Burkas on Capitol Hill?
Posted by: americaningermany at November 10, 2006 01:15 PM
Better yet, when will she declare that she's made "peace in our time"?
I think I'd better learn Chinese and see what the immigration policy is over there because from the way things are going China might be the only country left with any will and ruthlessness to take on Islamania.
Nancy P. makes my head spin; and my heart sank when I learned of her new position as Speaker. But it's her "position" on the war on terrorism that makes me sick-to-my-stomach!!
Well, if it isn't a "war to win", but a "situation to solve", one of the three options available to us will be preempted. So, which of the other two would the Speaker-to-be have us choose, conversion or dhimmitude?
Good one American.....Nancy "The-Twit" Pelosi!!!
You mean Dhimmicrats don't you? Democrats are a dying bread.
oops....BREED....not bread
In parting for the day.. If the Israelis need to defend themselves.. feel free to shoow at whatever or whomever is in the way. I don't care if they are Germans or French.
They are there only to get in Israel's way and aid the common enemy. Once again our governments have chosen the wrong side. Like last time in Serbia.
But then you all know that we'll have left-wing liberals come on here and call us stupid and blind "Right-wingers" for daring to say anything against a Democrat.
Posted by: americaningermany
I heard there are congress elections again in 2008. Let's hope for the Best.
Mabe I've missed something BUT why do the french "peacekeepers" have anti-aircraft missiles? Lebonon has no airforce, hezbollah has no airforce. It is quite apparent the french intend to use them on the Israeli airforce if hezbollah started it up again and the Israelis tried to take hezbollah out.
Nasseemsostupid....
Are you EVER going to get it that if you still believe in Allah you will go to HELL?
Jesus is the answer stupido...Just accept him and go to Heaven or join all your other jihadists and go see Mo and Atta in the burning chasm.
The French are just talking. They were not about to fire on anything. They just wanted to make themselves look big with this story. The French do not want to take on Israel. They could lose Paris.
If Israel was real smart they would just invade France. Now that would suprise everyone.
Siciliano said:
"Nasseemsostupid....
Are you EVER going to get it that if you still believe in Allah you will go to HELL?
Jesus is the answer stupido...Just accept him and go to Heaven or join all your other jihadists and go see Mo and Atta in the burning chasm."
THERE YOU GO! You got it straight from the mouth of somebody who really CARES! Why didn't ANYBODY ELSE think of it. Call this person an idiot, insult the hell out of her, and THAT would convince ANYONE that Christ is the way!
Say Siciliano, leave evangelizing to people who CAN do that sort of thing. Sounds to me that you want this person to go to hell, and you can't wait for it. You are FAR from being helpful here.
Can you imagine the outcry against Israel if they shot back at the frnch 'peace keepers' in Lebanon? Holy Moly-
Lol Greatcomet- that would be soemthing- Israel could nike France, move in there & the whole world would have this dumbfounded look on their faces wondering what just happend. Maybe they can petition God and get God to switch the promissed land to France instead- that way the Palestines wouldn't have anyone to blame for their burning hatred anymore & the world would see their continued violence in the region for what it really is- Racist hatred.
Christian news and commentary at: sacredscoop.com ...
Hypothetically speaking, if "Israel" just suddenly moved to France (successfully--France becoming "Israel" overnight, and the current land of Israel became the "Palistinian's" own personal stomping-grounds), then you'd see all of the Middle East become one huge killing field. There would be so much unrestrained killing and destruction, it wouldn't stop until the last Muslim in the region had killed each other.
Once the last semblence of sanity has left the ME, then the whole place will become psychoville.
Naseem:
You have asked some good questions that I believe deserve other than flippant rejoinders.
I can't speak for anyone else nor will I attempt to speak for any organization -- only myself regardless if anyone else agrees.
Here is my take on your inquiry.
This Good deeds vs grace is fascinating for me. In effect, Jesus PBUH still wants you despite you being a bad boy….this does not make much sense…Never in this world do you get something for nothing…
The two keys are “this world” and “something for nothing.” If you accept Jesus as your god, then his death and resurrection are most certainly something; as is ones acceptance of this for the purpose of eternal salvation – acceptance is also something.
We see from this that Allah does not need to have children because he is all powerful. Don’t talk of Laila and Manat…because Muhd SAW was tainted by the devil at this point.
God would not need humanity really if you follow this logic, but has chosen humanity for his own divine purpose that humanity can only guess at.
Yahwea on the other hand has a Son. John 3:16. says "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
This is where I think your god lost it….if he is god…why can he only have one son…if he is all powerful…why can he not have other sons?
If you accept that God is all powerful, then he can chose whatever he wants; including having one son. If that is God’s choice, it does not in any way preclude his power to do anything he so chooses. Why then do you suppose it should impose limitations?
I'm not sure about anyone else, but I am not in such a lofty position that I can presume to tell God that he must do thus; and is not allowed to do so.
Moreover, I am not sure that I personally have the Chutzpah to shake a clinched fist in his face and tell him he does not exist.
If I did that, he might tell me where to go!
Allah can have as many sons/daughters/wives that he wants...he can simply create them…why is JC PBUH on his own…being a lonely child can be a harrowing experience.
To show that the ultimate power of death by such a harrowing experience can ultimately be conquered by the power of God. Why else?
I am beginning to think that one son is probably more an ideology rather than a physical thing?
Then Naseem, by your own admission, YOU are imposing your own limitations on the power of God; is that not blasphemy that you are committing according to your quran?
Peoples, what is your take on this
You have mine. Essentially, you have two competing gods with completely different messages. So, it comes down to making up which of the two you like best.
My vote is the Jesus -- I admire his courage for what believed was right and wrong; I like the way he respected even those that hated him; I like the reports, even hostile reports, that he did miraculous things like raise the dead, heal people, and the like -- your guy doesn't make the grade.
Finally, your guy was a military man who killed people but never healed anyone. Jesus, on the other hand never went to war and told his followers not to live by the sword. I like that.
Your guy, changed the world by forcing others through the physical manifestation of battle.
Jesus changed the world by the spiritual manifestation of the mere word which was of God.
Jesus trumps your guy in my opinion, hands down!
@Naseem, Shalom!
You ask how Allah could have a son and not have a wife.
Here's a quote from the Quran, which is the Islamic "Bible". Have you read it?
003.047
YUSUFALI: She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
PICKTHAL: She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.
SHAKIR: She said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
Naseem (or is it Andrew?),
"Jesus PBUH still wants you despite you being a bad boy….this does not make much sense…Never in this world do you get something for nothing"
Key to the following text: Pharisees = Muslims
“And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, ‘This man [Jesus] receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.’
“And [Jesus] spake this parable unto them, saying,
“ ‘What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
“ ‘And when he hath found [it], he layeth [it] on his shoulders, rejoicing?
“ ‘And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost?
“ ‘I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
“ ‘Or also, what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find [it]?
“ ‘And when she hath found [it], she calleth [her] friends and [her] neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
“ ‘Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.’
“And he said, ‘A certain man had two sons: And the younger of them said to [his] father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth [to me]. And he divided unto them [his] living.
“ ‘And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
“ ‘And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
“ ‘And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
“ ‘And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
“ ‘And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father’s have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, and am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
“ ‘And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
“ ‘And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
“ ‘But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put [it] on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on [his] feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill [it]; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
“ ‘Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
“ ‘And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
“ ‘And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
“ ‘And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and entreated him.
“ ‘And he answering said to [his] father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a fatted calf, that I might make merry with my friends: But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
“ ‘And the Father said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.’ ”
-- The Gospel according to Luke, 15:2-32
The Latter Day Whore of Babylon flashes her cankered netherparts to nauseate us and remind us of her diseased depravity.
Her chickens, brooded in her so-called Third Republic's `Mission Civilisatrice' are finally coming home to roost... and, for at least the fourth time in human history, France will stupidly serve as the epicenter of the World's most heinous war of abominations.
Her perfidy is beyond words... and well beyond my feeble capacity to convey.
May the Fifth Republic fall in shambles, and may we never see her rise again.
And, who am I to argue with a prophet?
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Having an affection for the countryside and some of the culture of France, I am not going to wish the country and it's people, many nice people, flushed down the proverbial toilet. I have a list of negatives about France just as I do about my own country. I venture there are more people in the U.S. who hate what America stands for (numbers) than there are in France (including muslims). Strong feelings are fine..irrational hatred, thats something else. This is not a lecture, just an observation.
Most of the criticism directed at France in these comments are about the current state of that country and its politics since WW2. I can't say I disagree. However, the article these comments are attached to deals only with a recent incident where the IAF allegedly made a provocative run against French peacekeepers. Ignoring the other overflights of Lebanese territory, there have also been complaints from Germany about IAF planes buzzing their positions. I'm not a pilot, so I can't say how serious buzzing is, and most of what I know about AA artillery comes from Tom Clancy, so maybe all the talk about the French keeping their cool is hot air. But assuming these complaints aren't groundless, this is a cause for concern.
Whether the IAF or anyone else wants these peacekeepers there is irrelevant - all sides agreed to have them in place. If one side or the other doesn't want them then it's up to the politicos to get them withdrawn. The IAF might have good reasons for their actions but if European forces feel harrassed then European governments and citizens will just feel even more distanced from Israel. Although I don't think Israel would intentionally hit peacekeepers, French or not, there have been enough logistical mistakes leading to fatalities to justify peacekeepers' concerns that they might be about to witness another mistake.
Another commenter said France's complaints might be aimed at domestic politics. That wouldn't surprise me because I don't have a high regard for French politicians. The fact that Germany though, a nation that feels a lot of guilt towards Israel and is a big supporter, has made similar complaints suggests that there is indeed a problem. Maybe the best solution is not to have lame duck peacekeepers in the region at all? The border was a lot safer when Israel was occupying Southern Lebanon. Rockets weren't being fired into Israel, IAF planes weren't flying into Lebanon, and everyone else was fine with the status quo. It didn't SEEM like everyone else was fine with it - you still had the UN telling Israel to withdraw, and college kids need to complain about something - but you didn't have foreign peacekeepers looking for relaxed rules of engagement. Maybe Israel needs to go back in?
Americaningermany:
She might try to go easy on us, first expecting dhimmitude, and then...CONVERSION
I guess she needs to brush up on the rules? Hopefully, she'll forget option three.
BTW, have you heard anything about Rumsy being tried for war crimes in Germany which claims universal jurisdiction.
Rumsy was as sharp as a bowling ball in my humble opinion, but a war criminal? Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that one.
But have you heard anything?
It all comes down to this in the end...
CAIRO, Egypt — Al Qaeda in Iraq's purported leader vowed on Friday that his fighters would never rest until they have reached Jerusalem and destroy the White House.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C228636%2C00.html
Speaks for itself doesn't it? So the French are supporting who?
Yes, Israel, right.
From witness's link
"Remain steadfast in the battlefield you coward,"
Coward, he's calling Bush a coward? Okay he's far from brave but compared to Muslims, Bush has the nerves of Chuck Norris. They hide behind their women's tents and attack defenseless civilians. Muslims are by far the most cowardly people on the planet. I think this also ties in to the virgin obsession, too afraid to be with a woman who can any compare with experience.
Assalamau Laikim all,
I want to thank witness and remote_control for their considered responses to my serious questions. I hve been looking at the Bible in odd moments aside from the Quaran. I may not agree with all your answers but thank you for sharing...if only more peoples were considerate.
My Anwer was so considerate and understanding...his loss is the one thing that puts me at odds with Allah SWT sometimes....but I know this is a test and I must be strong and continue my Dua to make a decent place for me in the here-after.
I have not really done this (reading the bible) with much interest before...and perhaps because you peoples are experts ...or simply gullable ..and never sought to question the obvious, who better for me to ask than the christian experts on this board. It has taken some time and courage to even open a book of the "opposition", I felt guilty incase "Allah was watching".
Yankee, let me make it clear to all..I am not a troll, froll, provectuer, or a zionist whatever.
I am Naseem...an Ahmadi muslima..educated in the UK. If you want to make fun...or mischief...go ahead...that would make you no better than that lund "stillfedup"..who is about the most ignorant Italian I know...her vocubalary on farm animals is breath taking.
Champ...good deeds in Islam can include charity, caring for other and being prompt for all prayers...it is not necessarily ALL about JIhad.
AIG...what's happen to the accent "when did you move back to Texas"....or was it Michigan...have you set up an appointment with Keith Ellison yet?....Yeee haah!...but it's good that you are taking to me aging..despite knowing that more muslims are earmarked for congress.
I haven't heard of this term "sangfroid" before. From the context I'm guessing that it means "not firing because you are too busy diving into a foxhole while sh*ting in your pants". Is that close?
"The story comes from Jerusalem and Occupied Paris, the latter occupied by so many Muslims who terrify the French authorities and French people, as the Germans once did the last time we had an Occupied Paris."
The significant difference being that the last time Paris was occupied there was a French Resistance.
I am not a troll, froll, provectuer, (*-
Only you can prove that. Many of us think you are a troöö-froll-provectuer. I don't know the difference between a Moslem and a troll. Can someone here help?
Nasseem:
My Anwer was so considerate and understanding...his loss is the one thing that puts me at odds with Allah SWT sometimes....but I know this is a test and I must be strong and continue my Dua to make a decent place for me in the here-after.
Perhaps you are being called to invistigate those things you thought were false.
You call Jesus a prophet; then why do you not want to believe what he taught?
If you don't believe what he taught, then how can you call him anything but a liar?
If Jesus is really alive, then call to him I guess? If he is alive, why would he not answer?
Mohammad is dead, is he not? Jesus alive; so take him at his word.
If Jesus does not make himself known to you, then you have reason not to believe. If he is alive, he will make himself known -- that at least is what he taught.
So, try it? Find out for yourself and you won't need anyone elses word for it.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=31
Naseem knock, seek and find.
MusHuntCowboy
Here is a dictionary of terms found on blogs, from LGF.
http://www.zombietime.com/lgf_dictionary/
Israel doesn't need the French to babysit them, and I'm sure the French don't want to babysit Israel. So, why doesn't everyone just go home and let Israel kick some butt?
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Naseem -
I appreciate your reply, but I must tell you what I thought of it. When asked how you defined "good works", you stated, "Good deeds in Islam can include charity, caring, prompt prayers -- it is not necessarily ALL about Jihad."
I am COMPLETELY stunned/shocked and amazed by your answer -- yet not totally surprised -- that "Jihad" would be included on your short-list of good deeds. Wow!!!
How can you possibly say that cutting off someones head/hands/feet is a good deed? Are you kidding me? Those are EVIL deeds, Naseem. What has happened to your conscience? Oh -- and lets not forget common sense -- does it really make sense to you that any form of Jihad is "good". Come on!
Let's also not forget who the beneficiaries of mohammedan charity are (hint: it ain't poor kids in Central America), not to mention the fact that "caring" only seems to apply to their co-cultists. Certainly not to kafirs, polytheists, and pagans.
AIG...what's happen to the accent "when did you move back to Texas"....or was it Michigan...have you set up an appointment with Keith Ellison yet?....Yeee haah!
Naseem when English isn't your first language maybe you shouldn't make fun of some one's written "accent". But what do I know I'm just a "wild slutty womens" right?
Besides who would want to go to Michigan? That's where muslim Dearborn is.
Dear Naseem......
Sorry for not replying earlier i was sleeping lol
Here is a bit of stuff for u to read, this is taken from a exmuslims expose on his old faith.........
enjoy!
* Islam permits Pedophilia - Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234/236
* Islam permits the rape of female captives - see next point
* Islam permits adultery with married female captives - Qur'an, Surah 4:24
(See what the Bible says about this in Exodus 20:14; Leviticus 20:10)
* Islam permits lying to spread the religion - Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857
* Islam permits lying to your wife - Muslim Book 032, Number 6303
(See what the Bible says about lying in John 8:44)
* Islam recommends the beating of women - Qur'an, Surah 4:34
* Islam encourages anti-semitism - Obvious to anyone who studies Islam.
* Islam encourages superstition - Bukhari Volume 7, Book 71, Number 649
(See what the Bible says about Omens in Deuteronomy 18:10)
* Islam commands the murder of apostates - Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260; Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 630; Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 632; Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577; Bukhari Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17; Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57; Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58; Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64; Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 271.
* Muhammads Qur'an was corrected by a blind man - Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 512
* Islam teaches that God is a god of deception - Qur'an, Surah 4:157
* Muhammad desired the wife of his fellowman - Qur'an, Surah 33:37
(See what the Bible says about this in Exodus 20:17)
I have quoted parts of the Bible in this post, so if you reject these Biblical verses on the opinion that the Bible has been changed, I suggest you look up the following authentic Hadiths that confirm that the Qur'an has been changed;
Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 57
Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 69
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 85
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 105
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 8
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 53
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 60
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 68
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 69
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 468
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 500
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 501
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 512
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 514
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 518
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 521
Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 524
Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816
Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817
Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 424
Muslim Book 001, Number 0228
Muslim Book 005, Number 2282
Muslim Book 005, Number 2283
Muslim Book 005, Number 2284
Muslim Book 005, Number 2285
Muslim Book 005, Number 2286
Muslim Book 008, Number 3421
Muslim Book 008, Number 3422
Muslim Book 017, Number 4194
SCV -
Israel is like the canary in the mine shaft, exposing the most vicious governmental/religious force on earth today, Islam; and if we don't protect Israel, then WE will be next.
If Israel is the problem, then how do you explain the violence against India by the Pakistani Muslims, violence against the Phillipines by the Phillipino Muslims; even the problems against Australians in Bali in the Bali Hotel bombings by Muslims.
Everywhere the Muslims are today, they are fighting among their neighbors; and they are even fighting among themselves.
Wake up! The problem is not Israel, it is Islam. This new breed of Islamic believers, who are merely following the instructions of the Koran, ARE the problem.
Imagine what would happen if tomorrow the Israel government declared a ceasefire against all Palestinian threats -- what would the Palestinians do?
Now imagine the Palestinian people declaring a ceasefire against the Israel government -- what would the Israel government do?
The Israel government would instantly reciprocate that gesture and work towards peace with their neighbors; but the Palestinians would use that as an opportunity to attack Isreal.
Your hatred towards Israel is completely unfounded! Again I say, "Wake Up!"
Here is a dictionary of terms found on blogs, from LGF. - Carolyn2
Thanks. I meant what is the difference between a troll and a Moslem? Does anyone know?
This shows again why the U.N. must be understood and worked on first. We must get this body to do what it should, or find the means to place it in the history books. This should be a primary focus in our movement to work for world peace.
Naseem;
Look into the faith of "Watchtower". You will find many things in common with islam. I feel they follow much that is in error, almost the same as islam, but you may find it interesting.
You are right to study to learn, it will at least offer you the right choice.
OUR PEOPLE COME FIRST. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE COME FIRST. THATS THE RULE!-SCV
That includes American Muslims, right?
SCV - readOn, Israel had apologized. US was in the WAR zone. Stop sharpening your knives, get a life.
"In June 1965, Liberty began her first deployment, to waters off the west coast of Africa. She carried out several more operations during the next two years, and went to the Mediterranean in 1967. During the "Six-Day War" between Israel and several Arab nations, she was sent to collect electronic intelligence in the eastern Mediterranean. On the afternoon of 8 June 1967, while in international waters off the Sinai Peninsula, Liberty, though clearly marked as a U.S. Navy ship, was struck by Israeli aircraft. After suffering damage and many personnel casualties from gunfire, rockets and bombs, she was further attacked by three Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats. One torpedo hit her on the starboard side, forward of the superstructure, opening a large hole in her hull. In all, thirty-four men were killed in the attacks and nearly 170 wounded. Israel subsequently apologized for the incident, explaining that its air and naval forces had mistaken the Liberty for a much smaller Egyptian Navy ship."
Assalamau Laikum Naseem,
I read your November 10, 2006 08:47 AM posting. I am intrigued as to how many Muslims know the Bible so well and I do wonder how many of them have inwardly converted but are too timid to 'come out', so to speak.
In response, yes, Christians are saved by grace. In saying that, I refer to those who have accepted Jesus as Saviour. I point out that there have always been wolves in sheeps clothing in the church - Jude condemns them eternally in his letter. They do not represent Christianity.
Now, in the Muslim world you may not get something for nothing, but in the West it is possible. These days its called Welfare but in previous days it was called charity. Philanthropy. But moving into the divine level, the spiritual level, there is only one way you can approach God, and that is this:- through grace.
What can a man bring to God when everything is His anyway? How many good works can a man churn out - and what does 'good' mean? Is suicide bombing 'good'? What about the muslims who killed a 14 year old boy in Iraq recently, or those who beheaded 3 schoolgirls on their way to school one morning - was that an act of 'Muslim charity'?
Trust me Naseem, Mohammed himself had no assurance of salvation. If Mohammed didn't how can any of his followers have assurance?
Yes, Jesus does want us in spite of our wickedness - thats why he came here. If we could get there ourselves there would be no reason for a very painful and very bloody sacrifice. An insult to God! But the result, in the long term, is an outcome far greater than anyone can imagine. Once you accept J, thats it. You become permanently and eternally bound into God's family with no condemnation - ever (Romans 8:1). We will of course fail to live a perfect life, but by grace we can always return. Even the prodigal son was always part of the family, despite his appalling behaviour. But his father rushed to welcome him back! Our Lord Himself, when asked about how many times you must forgive, replied seventy times seven - not 490 times but always. Now, knowing our weaknesses He would not have asked us to do something He himself could not. And therefore Christians have a perfect, never failing recourse that lasts through death. Look at the thief on the cross - pleading with Jesus in his last hours on earth and receiving a promise of paradise that very day. No jihad, no death, no charity, simply faith and trust that God will do what He says He will. And I have no doubt He followed through.
As to the concept of Son:- let's start by stating that God is One God -
Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The most important [law] is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
So how does this 'triune' concept come about? "Trinity" is not found in the bible but is a word used to describe the three independent persons in the Godhead (right from Genesis God refers to himself in the plural, so this remains consistent).
Jesus' relationship with his father is beyond the scope of this post. Suffice to say that Jesus is distinct from but has a very close relationship with His father and identifies both as God, that both are due worship. Matthew 28:19 sends the disciples out with the command to baptise in the name of the father, son and holy spirit.
Now, this is important because of Quran 5:116 where Mohammed suggests that Jesus claimed that Mary also was a god. The bible never says that nor does it encourage the worship of anything except Jesus as fully God and in a perfect relationship with all other members of the godhead. The trinity is not an easy concept to understand, and I doubt anyone really understands it fully - it is like a circle trying to comprehend a sphere. But that does not make it less real.
I must quote this from your last post as well - very poetic:
"Allah can have as many sons/daughters/wives that he wants...he can simply create them…why is JC PBUH on his own…being a lonely child can be a harrowing experience."
I hope that by reading my above comments you may appreciate how God has answered that quote - God has bought countless sons and daughters through the cross and the work of His Spirit (so noone may boast) while remaining in a perfect trinitarian relationship Himself. Absolute genius.
Love to hear your response - keep safe :)
J.
Look into the faith of "Watchtower". You will find many things in common with islam. I feel they follow much that is in error, almost the same as islam, but you may find it interesting.
Posted by: Islofob IS-1
Naseem,
I strongly recommend you do not take the above advice.
Rather, I would have you consider this: How HOLY is your Allah? What does holy mean to you?
I would submit to you that in its simplest theological sense, "holy" is perfection in moral principle and conduct, and that includes perfect consistency in the same, being pure and above reproach. Yahweh is perfect in holiness.
How do you judge your "works" against this? Were they done perfectly? With perfect intention, or for personal gain? Can your good works, merely by "outweighing" your bad works achieve was is needed to truly please a holy God? Would you be up to the task to arbitrate your own case before this holy God, to ask his leniency if you were close? Would this leniency correct the insults made to his character by your bad works? Would his holiness remain perfect?
A key element of Christianity is humility. If what you understand about the salvific relationship doesn't produce this, you haven't got it yet. It will be extraordinarily deep, and devastating.
On God having a "son", this is way beyond the scope of this thread. I refer you (and Islofob IS-1)to the following, the definitive work written many centuries ago:
On the Incarnation, by Athanasius.
Keep reading the Injeel. Don't just read the Gospels, be sure to read the Pauline epistles (especially Romans) and Hebrews.
You will be in my prayers.
There are a few things which are clear.
1 France is lost as an independent nation. It behaves along the lines of a muslim country.
2) If France ever engages anyone, it will fire on Isreal but never on a muslim nation or organization( terrorist or not).
3) And lastly...French forces as part of the UN peacekeeping....Perfect!!! This is the union of two useless organizations!
one man's opinion!
Il Toscano
I assume by Yahwea, you mean the God in the Bible prior to “muslim interpretation” of Jesus PBUH.
Yes, I think this would be the correct way to phrase this.
I was interested in why you would simply resist from calling him “Allah” SWT.
Well, personally I would avoid doing so because it would be incorrect. It's clearly not the same deity.
Prophet Geoff
I know this is not a good analogy...but without comparison...how can you know the merits of one against the other?
Well, this is precisely my question to you. Clearly, there is little you know or understand of other religious faiths; how then can you feel secure in assuming that this 'allah' is in fact the proper choice? Clearly too, he sends quite confused messages, besides being highly intolerant. Why not study Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism or Shinto or secularism?
Prophet Geoff
Witness: excellent response. Seems as though some limitations are all right to the islamic mind, and others not.
Man. Talk about hypocrisy.
Prophet Geoff
Concerned Citizen;
I do not understand your steering Naseem away from the group I mentioned, again I did not intend to convert her to a "J.Witness.", just gave information on some interesting things in common between them and islam.
Again, I do not agree with all they teach, but a some is correct. One should not be afraid of reading about another's faith. I don't like learning about islam, but see the need to study it. The more you know, the better one can feel about their path.
The link to the webpage you gave has a lot of depth , a bit beyond what I can take in in one sitting, although a couple things were standing above the rest, I shall have to try and read more and understand what is being taught.
Islofob IS-1,
My concern was that if, in fact Naseem is genuinely trying to understand Christianity, whether it be merely intellectually, or hopefully experientially, that starting with a heterodox Christian heresy could lead to false perceptions as well as cynicism. That is, I hoped to spare her the illusion that there are multiple competing and equally "valid" or authoritative versions of Christianity, as might be seen by someone who is just beginning to explore it. Better to learn orthodox theology first then compare the heterodox, and avoid being inticed by it.
I hope she might find interesting some direct comparisons of Islam (though not necessarily the internally conflicted Ahmadi version) with Christianity, such as
His Virgin Birth Surah 19:16-22
His Sinlessness Surah 19:19
His Bodily Ascension Surah 4:158
His Second Coming Surah 43:61
I don't think we should be surprised by this, or by ala carte appropriation of doctrines by other heterodox "faiths", but it does tend to theologically paint the adherents into corners at times, and they should at least be intellectually honest enough to admit it.
All the same, sorry I offended you. I have certainly enjoyed your posts.
Concerned Citizen;
I see and understand then by you writing what you did. I had thought this was what you were thinking.
I agree with how you described the sect, again I still feel they get some things right. It is their writings on earning the path to god through good works that is along the lines of islam's teachings , along with others, that Naseem may find interesting.
I held no offence as to what you wrote, thank you for the kind words.
And we see here in this article another reason why France deserves to be be kicked out of the European Union.
With friends like France, who needs enemies?
Naseem: Maybe you should go ask the talking trees and talking rocks in the Kuran (you know the ones that are supposed to turn over the Jews hiding behind them to the Arabs). They probably understand Islam best.