'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber'

I hope he gets his 72 virginians...

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

"BOMBER: I study at a West Bank university and I have great hopes of getting married within the next couple of months. My life is very normal."

Which of course mean being a suicide bomber. Come on Ahmed, study hard and get good grades so you can get a good job .. OTH never mind. You may as well cut classes and forget the homework.

Q:
"And then ask yourself, what is CAIR doing, what is MPAC doing, what are all the self-proclaimed moderate Muslims doing to counter among Muslims the idea that killing Jews will bring them to Paradise?"

A: Precious little. Could it be that a majority of the "moderates" quietly condone the actions of their brethren? Just asking.

Good riddance the world is better off with out him and those like him in it. Are we supposed to be shocked at this clowns courage and commitment? I am not, it takes real courage to stand and fight and none to simple roll over and die. Suicide is a coward’s way out. You have a beef with the Israelis? Then stand your ground, coward. I have said it many times, islam has no warriors and they continuously prove me right.

"Scarify" would seem to be a variation of "terrify," if I might clarify. Indeed, primary jihad events like 9/11 instill terror, while a lone suicide bombing like Grandma Fatima's effort, which resulted in just a few scratches and scrapes for the IDF soldiers, rather simply scares us.

And you thought these Neanderthals had little capacity for language.

"...I have great hopes of getting married within the next couple of months..."

Someone should give him Louise Arbour's phone number.

"'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber'"

Here is a preveiw of the highest prize that is given to those who scarify themselves,

enjoy

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/02/x-rated.html

QUOTE FROM ROBERT SPENCER:

"Read it all."

Im sure most of you here have done so but for anyone who hasnt read the whole thing!!

The part where he9the suicide bomber scumbag) basically says he will have all the sex in paradise that you people (nonmuslims) have down here says it all. its all lust and sex with these idiots he doesnt realize that killing for sex is far more indicative that he is immorally controlled by his sexual urges than any sexually active person on earth. he HAS to kill for the 72 whores! (Virgins yes yes their hymens are miraculously refomed to virgin states after each sexual encounter --according to the muslim scriptures they are virgins forever).

"Read it all" would be an understatement.

This man is starring in his own snuff film. Murdering people for the sake of (promised) orgasm. That's basically what the Islamic idea of ultimate martyrdom amounts to. The apologists can spin this all they want but in the end, this is what Islam comes down to. Killing people in order to achieve the (theoretically) ultimate orgasm (via the 72 virgins).

Islam - the snuff film religion!

Real Muslim shaheeds report - you decide....

I emailed the writer and thanked him. I don't know how he kept his cool during that interview. I think I would have had a stroke.

From the article: "We just follow what we are demanded in the Quran to do because if we do not do so we will be attacked, occupied, controlled and killed by these enemies of Islam." George? Are you listening? Dick, are you finished slapping backs in Saudi Arabia? OT, Robert or Hugh, why don't we have a Manhattan project for energy independence so we can stop this jizya??

ALLIES - we're on the same page. Sick. Sick. Sick. Sick. Sick. Sick.

And frankly, does anyone know of another supposed religion that is this darned sick? Flawed maybe. But this darned sick??

Naseem, Haidon, ANY Muslim or Muslim apologist - weigh in here please! Is he wrong in his fantasies or isn't this precisely what Muhammad promised him?

LOL. Thanks a lot, Shiva, for the gratuitous "stimulation."

I'm pretty certain I'll never get some of those downright disturbing images out of my mind, but I'm not similarly having any trouble losing my lunch. I had ham.

Regards,

HAID

"'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber'"

You should think again,and take a look at what your Mullahs are up to

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/06/sex-and-islam.html

Fanatical muslims and people suffering from PC may find the above link as offensive It is intended to be objective and it`s purpose is purely informative and educational.

But I will add this post will prove that muslims are hypocrites

"its all lust and sex with these idiots..."

You may be right "THE ALLIES SHALL WIN". Meanwhile, those pesky "youths" are at it again. Yep, it's still happening.

Re: 'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber'

I'm reminded of the program "What's my line"? as I read this. Just imagine the panel taking off their blind-folds after failing to identify the work of the contestant and seeing a guy with bombs strapped to him. I can see everybody running for their lives from the studio. Reality tv at its best. Stay tuned.

'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I'm a suicide bomber'

Islam -- religion of peace? I guess Muslims believe that by killing every last human being on earth that we will finally have "peace on earth" because there won't be anyone left to fight with. Now I get it!

Okay now to be a serious

From what I have experienced sex for a virgin in most cases is bloody and painful.I am a guy and have been a girls first sexual partner a couple of times. I found that for the first few minutes they found it really painful, not to a point were they were screaming in agony, but had to grip the bed etc etc

This whole thing about 72 virgins just goes to show what a sick mindset muslims have and how little they know about women,and they are void of any respect for females.

So this skumbag after years in this world of faith, restraint and patience, strives to enjoy Allah's pleasures and inflict pain upon women forever

Shiva -- in other words -- you're a lowsy lover.

How will Islam continue after we are all converted or dead? There won't be anyone left to pay the jizzyah (sorry if I misspelled that). There won't be anyone left to kill to give them a free admission to heaven. They would be reduced to finding apostates within their own ranks, hastening the end of the species known as Muslim. What would Ahmed do then? What will women raise their children to be? Islam looks more and more like the predator that will cause its own demise because it will eat everything there is and produce nothing to take its place.

http://www.kafirnation.com/handout/39%20Ways%20to%20Serve%20and%20Participate.pdf

What? No Trolls on this thread???

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

Does this article have any authentication to distinguish it from a complete or partial fabrication?
Knowing what I do it is difficult to believe a muslim could speak like that- they don't.
Yet you all swallow it whole without question.
Suicide is forbidden in Islam, the punishment is Hell, why would anyone think otherwise?

The 2 MAIN EFFECTS of this "scary terrorist threat" story are; dividing the citizens against eachother and, allowing world governments to seize money, power, and land.
Don't you think the effect the bombings HAVE HAD could be the effect the BOMBERS WANTED?

What a wonderful religion Islam is and for those unfamiliar with the term sarcasm that was sarcasm.

Moderate Muslim simply means a Muslim who supports terror but does not directly engage in it, while radical muslim is a muslim who is in Al Queda/Hamas/Hezbollah etc etc etc.

Rascist means someone who is proud of ressistance to Islam of the past (Battle of Tours, first three sieges of Constantinople, Battle of Lepanto etc etc etc,) and wishes to continue ressisting Islam and maintaining Civilization today instead of going Dhimmi.

Anti-rascist simply means a fascist who wishes to eliminate freedom of speech and believes in Islamic Supremacy so works towards that goal (i.e Al Gaurdian)

Did someone mention trolls?

Right, Maryam. Muslims don't talk that way and there are no Muslim suicide bombers either. Suicide is forbidden in Islam, after all. The punishment is Hell.

Tell me, Maryam: What's Allah's punishment for lying through your teeth and being an annoying buffoon?

You are right it is far from an isolated example.
Stories like this are now coming thick and fast daily in the media.
That they are prolific does not make them true.
The story is absurd. It makes no sense. Muslims are as puzzled about it as you.

I thought suicide was a crime in itself? How can the Lord love a person who commits a crime against humanity? Certainly wouldn't be a loving Lord anyway.

Why aren't you puzzled about it?
There are enough inconsistencies, absurdities and anomalies to puzzle any thinking person.
I only want you to think.
You don't even need to change your opinion, just think about where you got it and how much you trust the source and why.
Don't sit so firmly intrenched in your views that you could never consider the possibility of another explanation.
Stop bolstering eachother up by congratulating eachother on your fine moral intellectual superiority, and start questioning your source of information.
What would it take to get YOU to be a suicide bomber? We are all humans, it would take about the same stuff. It's wholly unnatural, the number of people prepared to do this under ANY pretext could not be large enough to worry the USA. The WHOLE PURPOSE of this strange story seems to be to inflame emotions and justify World Powers doing whatever they like.
By the way its 5 hours later here so I can't chat long.

Karen and Caroline thanks. For me a higher level of spirituality is CONTROLLING yourself not "letting it all go" whether its lust or hate or freaking out at somebody. Christianity, Judaism, Buddism and others preach control. Islam preaches EXTREME denial to be followed by gorging in action X (such as sex) after you do your killing for allah.
Whether you believe in Jesus or Buddha or not you can see these founders were genuinely interested in sprituality. Is it just me or does it seem all the doctrines (especially about guaranteed paradise, and guaranteed sex orgies) seem to be contrived by some guy who is trying to motivate his followers to fight for him:
"Okay okay boys lets see whada' ya' want? Ya' want girls?

Ya' got em'! (after you fight and die).

Ya'll want paradise

ya' got it! (after you fight and die).

Ya' want to be happy forever and beloved of Allah?

ya got it! (after ya fight and die) soooo lets go then --everybody now charge that village over there!

Oh ya' you can have spoils of war and unlimited slave girls too so whose with me?
Oh WHAT is it now Ahmed?

"No no no Ahmed don't worry --allah is all cool with this ya' really he is! Dont let those damn christians and jews confuse ya' allah has proscribed war for ya'! Its not wrong if allah says its okay! Seriously I had this vision of Allah telling me so --yep just last night. (Saleem you got that down in writing? good good)

Any OTHER concerns? okay then lets get this show on the road already ! Everybody together as we charge now:

alllaaaaaaaaaah ackhbaaaaaaaaaar"

and they all rode straight into hell.

This is one of the absurdities and anomalies I was talking about

quote from maryam: " What would it take to get YOU to be a suicide bomber? We are all humans, it would take about the same stuff."

REALLLLLY??? If that were true, Me, Robert Spencer, George W Bush, and every male here would be 1) muslim and 2) sucide bombers

but we are not even though allah and islam offer that --NOW--TODAY--TO US. If it would "take the same stuff" then why arent WE doing it? That 'same stuff' is offered today by islam TO us.

We dont accept it because in our hearts we know its WRONG maryam. Its WRONG

to do it with a 9 year old
to kill for jihad
to get virgin orgies
to act like a FREAKING SERIAL KILLER and destroy inocent lives for a damn booty run!

Maybe YOU need to do some thinking hun?
Ever think about that?
sheesh.

the explanation of a suicide bomber is basically guys who believe that Islam is true and the lust in their hearts drives them to do it (plus the guaranteed salvation!)

QUOTE FROM AN ARTICLE from Toronto Star (link is below) where Michael Coren interviews another former jihadist and WHY OH WHY did he do it and guess what? It was SEX baby SEX SEX and more SEX. oh and guarantee of eternal salvation. Islam offers it to me but Im not stupid enough to become evil for such 'reward'! And neither are millions of nonmuslims around the world!! (thank God)

QUOTE:
In "Hot for martyrdom" in the National Post (thanks to Barbara), Michael Coren speaks to the courageous Tawfik Hamid"

"The first thing you have to understand is that it has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with poverty or lack of education," he says. "I was from a middle-class family and my parents were not religious. Hardly anyone in the movement at university came from a background that was different from mine.
...
"I've heard this poverty nonsense time and time again from Western apologists for Islam, most of them not Muslim by the way. "
...
"Islam condemns extra-marital sex as well as masturbation, which is also taught in the Christian tradition. But Islam also tells of unlimited sexual ecstasy in paradise with beautiful virgins for the martyr who gives his life for the faith. Don't for a moment underestimate this blinding passion or its influence on those who accept fundamentalism."

A pause. "I know. I was one who accepted it."

This partial explanation is shocking more for its banality than its horror. Mass murder provoked partly by simple lust. But it cannot be denied that letters written by suicide bombers frequently dwell on waiting virgins and sexual gratification.

"The sexual aspect is, of course, just one part of this. But I can tell you what it is not about. Not about Israel, not about Iraq, not about Afghanistan. They are mere excuses. Algerian Muslim fundamentalists murdered 150,000 other Algerian Muslims, sometimes slitting the throats of children in front of their parents. Are you seriously telling me that this was because of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians or American foreign policy?"

...

He's exasperated now, visibly angry at what he sees as a willful Western foolishness. "Stop asking what you have done wrong. Stop it! They're slaughtering you like sheep and you still look within. You criticize your history, your institutions, your churches. Why can't you realize that it has nothing to do with what you have done but with what they want."
...

end of quotes

from:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013911.php

full toronto star article of this interview
from:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=eb74b136-3729-42a1-821b-77366f7af920&p=2

Hamid is another jihadist from the fellow interviewed by worldnetdaily. how many must we INTERVIEW to see that they all say the same F##$@# thing ? Must we carry our a survey because (just in case now) it might not be sex and salvation it might be they had a bad childhood? or (and I love this one) the secret cabal of western powers are PLANTING (yes planting) these poor shlups to say these things ! And and the towers FELL because the 17 terrorists were secretly JEWISH ZIONISTS yes yes and the moon is made of FREAKING green cheese, and magically elves dance up and down the grand muftis beard.

come on man.

quote:
"The WHOLE PURPOSE of this strange story seems to be to inflame emotions and justify World Powers doing whatever they like."

yes and the whole purpose of the trade towers was to
create panic and fear ..your point is what exactly?

to "justify world powers doing whatever they like.."

green cheese... moon ...little happy elves up and down the grand muftis beard I tell you!

LOOK everybody I just saw a Lepracahn! The obvious answer is never the right one you know! Why the obvious answer is always some convoluted consipiracy! Dark Cabals! Jews who eat christian children! secret world powers under freemason getaways! Did you know there were NO jews in the towers that fell ?! yes yes its TRUE (and I also believe little green aliens run Coca Cola and

well you get...

it...

lol :oD

the land that this nut wants to blow himself
up for never has belonged to the so called Palestinian and abbas there pm attmits it
Abbas dismissed demands that Fatah recognize Israel - just one day before he told Rice that such recognition is a must. According to our religion, any land that we have occupied is our land. We must fight for our land.
there is a agressive delusion
that any land muslims have over run and occupied is now and allways muslim land and even if the dhimmi thier toss them out its still muslim land ie spain

amen islamakapigeaters amen to that.

For maryam, the Mohammedan troll:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23455_Irans_Suicide_Brigades&only

Sarcasm and abuse weaken your stance of moral rectitude and intellectual prowess.
Islam teaches us to honour our parents, give food to our neighbours, visit the sick, respect the elderly -all muslim or not- to do thousands of named good deeds; even to remove a harmful object from the road. Having given us a lifestyle of prayer kindness decency and self restraint that we follow because of its obvious goodness, it doesn't make sense that it would demand killing or that we should think killing good.
The fact that you hold such untenable beliefs with such ferocity, about a huge and peaceful community indicates very strongly that you have been fed a large quantity of erroneous information over a long time.
Only your own efforts can free you.
You can think your way through this if you SEEK OUT PURE, FIRST HAND INFORMATION and STRIVE TO UNDERSTAND OTHER'S POINTS OF VIEW WITH AN OPEN MIND.
That can't be a bad thing can it?
And humbling though it may be, you don't have to know what's going on to be able to tell that whatever it is, it's not the story you've been given.

maryam
Your post is slightly ambiguous so I will not jump on your bones but I will refer to the less ambiguous areas of your position.
1. "Honor your parents"
Assist your Grandmother with bus fare on her way to blow herself up in an attempt to kill those you don't agree with?
2.Please name the non muslim recipients of muslim charity.
3." Remove harmful objects from the road."
Would you mind removing the IED "harmful objects" from the road (since your muslim adherents placed them there)?
4. If you muslims don't think killing is good, why do you do so much of it?
5. "Self restraint?"
Could you PLEASE make a case for muslim self restraint? Muslims are at war with their neighbors worldwide.
6. "Strive to understand others points of view."
Please, by all means, give us a case for muslims striving to understand other points of view.

Reading the plea of a muslim for reasonableness is troubling to my sanity. Is there a Psychiatrist on board...is it me who needs help?

Maryam wrote:
"Only your own efforts can free you."

My Reply:
The will to find the TRUTH will set you free. And I see the TRUTH that Islam is not from God but from satan.

Follow the simple way, if you want to know that teaching is come from God or satan, see the fruit. Quit from Islam right now, before you late Maryam, it is not religion but satan tool to destroy humanity.

Maryam --

I only wish I had taken that "Inverted Thinking" course in college, then I could better understand your -- well -- inverted thinking!

Maryam, surely you have heard of the "martyrdom brigades" in Iran? They have received considerable coverage in the Islamic Republic's own newspapers, so they must exist. They even have an all female unit that is enroute to Baghdad as we speak! I have personally read excerpts from islamic sermons in which "martyrdom" is touted as the ultimate tribute to allah. Such sermons emanate from the Palestinian territories daily, as well as from mosques in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan.

Sorry, but there are simply too many reliable, reputable sources to validate the fact that islamic martyrdom, or suicide to murder innocent people for allah, is not only permissible in islam, but is considered a holy act! The depraved Palestinians even produce cartoons aimed at little children, encouraging them to become shahids. Please don't insult our intelligence.

Maybe you are parsing words or merely implementing the time-honored tradition of taquiyya, who knows. Perhaps you don't consider homicide bombings to be suicides since their primary purpose is to kill infidels. I believe islam does forbid suicide but islam does not forbid martyrdom, which is sacrificing oneself in battle for allah. So if a muslim wants to turn himself into a human bomb and "fight" for islam and allah, it's fine if he dies. Ok, if you don't want to call that "suicide", we'll just call it "the necessary sacrifice to commit cold-blooded, mass murder." Does that make you feel better? A shahid is a hero to be celebrated; he goes directly to paradise and the 72 virgins! His family has a party and sometimes gets huge sums of cash to make temporal life more bearable until they join him in paradise. An all around bonanza for all concerned. Is this your idea of good, decent, moral, and holy?

Next post from 'maryam' will accuse us of 'turning her into a radical' because we reject her absurdities...

Maryam, are you gonna grow up to blow up or are you gonna bake yourself your very own little Islam under your burkha?

Hahahahahah!

Maryam,

Explain away this story:

http://www.kidnappedchristiangirls.org/confessionsofa.html

Posted by: champ

Shiva -- in other words -- you're a lowsy lover.

That is neither for you,myself or any-one else to judge except the persons who I had sex with.

Each woman suffers a different amount of pain when their hymen is broken. It is possible to feel no pain at all. That said, it is most common to feel some discomfort when the hymen is being torn from the walls, or ripped. There are also women who feel a large amount of pain. The amount of pain a woman feels is relative to how thick her membrane is, how attached to the walls it is, and how large the penis is in relation to her natural opening.

A tampon isn't usually thick enough to break the hymen. In relation, if the man's penis isn't wide enough, or isn't fully erect during a woman's first time, it isn't likely to break the hymen. Instead it may hit the hymen and stretch it slightly, causing more discomfort to the woman unfortunately. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, and all of this depends on how the hymen is formed, as not all hymens are "built" the same.

To reduce pain during a "first time" experience, spending time sexually arousing the female, providing plenty of natural lubrication, will help a lot.

Not all women actually bleed when it is torn and some women bleed quite a bit when the hymen is torn. Again this is relative to the thickness of the membrane, how it's attached.

Some sexually active women can go their entire lives with their hymen intact, at least until they go through childbirth.

Why I am including this imformation is to show what low esteem muslims have for women..

Mohammed promised his followers seven heavens in which:

They are to cohabit with demure virgins...as beauteous as corals and rubies...full-breasted maidens for playmates...in the gardens of delight.... They're to lie face to face on jewelled couches, and be serviced by immortal youths...young boys, their personal property, as comely as virgin pearls.... We created the houris [dancing girls] and made them virgins, carnal playmates for those on the right hand.... We are going to wed them to dark-eyed houris. [The Koran 55:56; 55:58; 78:33; 56:12; 52:16-17, 24; 56:35-38; 52:20]

Each Muslim man, in exchange for a lifetime of mindless obedience, was to be rewarded after death with an unspecified number of pretty boys to bugger, plus 72 heavenly houris, each more phallus-raising than the others and each endowed with the capacity to grow a new hymen after each bout of sexual recreation. The male chauvinist Muslim could thus satisfy his virginity fetish by deflowering them over and over again, for eternity.

"and each endowed with the capacity to grow a new hymen after each bout of sexual recreation."
Thus committing the virgin to the pain of deflowering and suffering the pain of having her hymen broken and torn over and over again, for eternity.

TMI, Dr. Shiva. Maybe you should start your own website and call it Sex Talk With Shiva!

Posted by: champ

TMI, Dr. Shiva. Maybe you should start your own website and call it Sex Talk With Shiva!

Hey Champ of mental shortsightness

You have completely missed the point of what I am trying to convey

And that is the perverted mind set of muslim men on how the have no respect for women both here on earth and in he after-life.

I personally believe that no woman desires to be perpetually deflowered.I am surprised that no-body has picked up on this unsavoury aspect of an endless flow of virgins and the rewards in paradise? The Islamic paradise is described in great sensual detail in the Koran and the Traditions detailing the pleasures for men,and the discomfort and pain for women,after death.So women within islam the suffering follows them into the after life regardless of they go to hell or paradise

Maybe you missed these

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/02/x-rated.html

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/06/sex-and-islam.html

The Mind of an 11 year old suicide bomber - The Hamas movement educates the children in its schools, beginning in kindergarten, to believe that a martyr is given virgins in Paradise. Jack Kelley of USA Today visited Hamas schools in Gaza City, where he saw an 11-year-old boy speak to his class: “I will make my body a bomb that will blast the flesh of Zionists, the sons of pigs and monkeys… I will tear their bodies into little pieces and will cause them more pain than they will ever know.” His classmates shouted in response, “Allah Akhbar, “ and his teacher shouted, “May the virgins give you pleasure.” A 16-year-old Hamas youth leader in a Gaza refugee camp told Kelley, “Most boys can’t stop thinking about the virgins.”

USA Today, June 26, 2001.

Champ
Maybe you admire the ingenuity of the faithful!

Another great story from the annals of religious thinking (a oxymoron perhaps!), this goes back to the Iran-Iraq War before suicide bombing become the must have religious fashion accessory for Muslim youths.

Seasoned Iranian troops were refusing to cross mine fields to attack Iraqi troops, so the Mullahs (Allah bless them)came up with this solution.

Go around to the schools an recruit young male teenages into the “Mine Field Clearing Squads”

Now what tools where they given? Well a copy of the Quran of course (in a sturdy box, lest it be damaged by explosions). These young boys would then charge through the mine fields yelling “Allah Akbah” and thus the mines were cleared.

Now the parents of these young boys started complaining to their local Mullahs when all the body parts got shipped home.

Well now the Mullahs had a real problem. A compassionate solution perhaps!

Now when has compassion ever come into religous practice (remember witch burning by devout christians).

Now the ingenious Mullahs came up with plan B.

The young boys were instructed to wrap rolls of old carpet around themselves before they ran through the mine fields - this stopped them being blown into pieces!

Their parents where now pleased to get their sons bodies back in one piece and happily announced their passing into Paradise in the “Marriage” section of the local papers - because their sons have “married” the virgins of Paradise (A practice still use for present suicide bombers)

Champ
Maybe you admire the ingenuity of the faithful!and attack me rather than face the issue of the sick practice of suicide bombing and perversive incentives the Mullahs dangle to the lecherous mongrels of islam

Another great story from the annals of religious thinking (a oxymoron perhaps!), this goes back to the Iran-Iraq War before suicide bombing become the must have religious fashion accessory for Muslim youths.

Seasoned Iranian troops were refusing to cross mine fields to attack Iraqi troops, so the Mullahs (Allah bless them)came up with this solution.

Go around to the schools an recruit young male teenages into the “Mine Field Clearing Squads”

Now what tools where they given? Well a copy of the Quran of course (in a sturdy box, lest it be damaged by explosions). These young boys would then charge through the mine fields yelling “Allah Akbah” and thus the mines were cleared.

Now the parents of these young boys started complaining to their local Mullahs when all the body parts got shipped home.

Well now the Mullahs had a real problem. A compassionate solution perhaps!

Now when has compassion ever come into religous practice (remember witch burning by devout christians).

Now the ingenious Mullahs came up with plan B.

The young boys were instructed to wrap rolls of old carpet around themselves before they ran through the mine fields - this stopped them being blown into pieces!

Their parents where now pleased to get their sons bodies back in one piece and happily announced their passing into Paradise in the “Marriage” section of the local papers - because their sons have “married” the virgins of Paradise (A practice still use for present suicide bombers)

Posted by: americaningermany

Shiva, I know you were just trying to explain your point, but really...that's a bit more information than some of us can handle about the deflowering process.

Sorry,

I am just a bit uptight about this subject,as I witness daily how here in Indonesia,young men drowling over 12 yr old girls.I have even witnessed one marriage where the girl was 8 and the guy(monster)was 23.

In most muslims eyes a virgin is a young girl no more than the age of Ashia..

If islam didn't think killing innocents was good, they wouldn't keep doing it. So far, all the suicide/murderers have been islamic. There's a connection.

"Sarcasm and abuse"?

Give me a break --muslims kill thousands of people daily (www.mychrisitianblood.org) smash airplanes into towers, whine about implementing shiara law everywhere they come too, riot in cities, force 9 yera olds to marry dirty old men, slam on muslim women who are raped as if its their fault (ie countless cases in Saudi arabia right now with a major gang rape one where the judge gives lashes to the victim of the rape, rape nonmuslim women in northern europe (over 70% rapes according to swedish govt there are by muslim 'youths') and you're complaining about sarcasm and abuse. You blind guide of the blind why dont YOU complain about all the innocent kafir who are being killed and murdered daily in the name of your godless littel sidestreet philosophy?

QUOTE:
SEEK OUT PURE, FIRST HAND INFORMATION and STRIVE TO UNDERSTAND OTHER'S POINTS OF VIEW WITH AN OPEN MIND.

interviewing Ahemid and other jihadists FIRST HAND --IS FIRST HAND INFO --what exactly do you think "first hand" means in English?

As for other's "point of view" --excuse me your "point of view" is being drowned out by the SOUND of jihadists killing innocent westerner everywhere, drowned out by the rabid screams of london mulsims holding up "islam will dominate your country" and "screw democracy we want islam to rule in your lands" signs, drowned out by the insane screams for blood when the pope makes an APT observation, drowned out by your wickedness and you obvious godlessness!

YOU HYPOCRITE GOD the REAL God --THE GOD OF ISRAEL SHALL JUDGE YOU and when where you be when HE does for you have hated the people of his heart and touched the apple of his eye (Israel).

You will be where your kind is, the nazis (for they preached the same kind of hatred you preach), and the schemers (for allah is a schemer) you will be in the outer darkness where there is gnashing of teeth.

Pullllllease dont speak about "others" point of view ..

WE'VE SEEN ALL TO WELL YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND THE ACTIONS IT LEADS TO AGAINST THE INNOCENT.

BEHOLD THE BLOOD OF THE INNOCENT KAFIR IS ON YOU AND YOUR FILTHY FAITH.

THE TRUE GOD -THE GOD OF ISRAEL SHALL JUDGE YOU AND YOUR WHOREDOMS (for it is whoredoms to say one has sex in heaven with virgins and whoredoms and warmonder to kill innocents to gain paradise and godlessness to call a 'prophet' one who killed WITHOUT provacation so many over so many years after issuing islamic "invitation" (threats really).

YOU HYPOCRITE THE GOD OF ISRAEL IS GREATER.

deal with and hide your self in shame in your burkas for Iran and your worlds shall be swept away as you continue your godlessness. And if IRAN bombs even on square foot of Israel or our beloved america or europe we kafir shall wipe you out so quickly sooo effieciently that you will NEVER crawl out of your desert holes again.

QUOTE:

"Islam teaches us to honour our parents, give food to our neighbours, visit the sick, respect the elderly -all muslim or not- to do thousands of named good deeds; even to remove a harmful object from the road. Having given us a lifestyle of prayer kindness decency and self restraint that we follow because of its obvious goodness, it doesn't make sense that it would demand killing or that we should think killing good. "

YES ISLAM TEACHES THAT FOR YOU TOWARDS *OTHER* MUSLIMS but for kafir it teaches you to HATE them and make them pay jizya tax.

For you to deny such OBVIOUS teaching of the hadith/quran reveals only
YOU mental weakness and your dishonesty hidden in your heart behind your Taqiyya talk towards us.

Basically YOU are guilty of what you unjustly charge us with. YOU have been fed with lies over time about islam (or you knowningly practice taqiyya towards us willingly) --WE have our eyes wide open!

And maryam its spreading for as JESUS said "the Truth shall make you free"

Christianity and Judaism (and Sikhism and a few others) teach ALL those things you talk about: "prayer, giving alms to the poor, honoring parents" EXCEPT without the obvious hypocrisy of
Islamic Shiria law and practice.

Ignore the troll everybody --she doesnt read her quran/hadith and is blind to all the UNIVERSAL commands for all muslims it has to HATE their neighbours and love only their muslim neighbours.

Shiva -

You didn't need to explain your OWN sexual accomplishments because no one cares to hear how you are in bed. This is Jihad Watch, not a forum for sharing the details of your own experiences with 'virgins'.

Feel free to expose the sexual practices of our enemy, but not your own. PLEASE not your own. Gross.

Shiva -- have you seen the movie, Borat? You remind me of him. You both have untamed tongues, in a stupid kind-a way.

you must fight nonmuslims and for people of the book to be in subjugation and to pay the jizya tax.

Listen Maryam my people were under muslim rule for 400 years so please dont give me this camel dung nonsense about Islam being peaceful. Its peaceful for you my friend not for us. When Islam comes into our lands it takes over and treats us as third class citizens. For 400 years priests were killed, anybody who was found carrying more than a bible (or even one bible near a mosque) had their hands cut off (in accordance with shiara law). If a priest was trying to repair a church (forbidden under shiara law) he was punished and depending on the judge (because in shira law the judges are given great leeway to decide) it could have been anything from imprisonment to hanging him until dead on the gates of his own church. My people were killed and driven and tortured by muslims in the name of Islamic Shiria law. And please please do not tell me of nonmuslims doing the same because its pure nonesense. We all know the Crusades were a defense against unlawful islamic encroachment.

We are tired of being killed by our muslim 'friends' We will NOT tolerate it anymore. NOR will we tolerate another 6 milliion plus holocaust on our Jewish neighbours and friends.

Never again.

___

universal commands to muslims from the quran/hadiths:

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”

Qur’an:2:193 “Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers.”

Qur’an:9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them BY YOUR HANDS, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.” (thus this is not 'inner jihad')

Muslim:C9B1N31 “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought.”

and on and on...

--what exactly do you think "first hand" means in English?

It means YOU interviewing somebody selected by YOU.
Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer.

___
QUOTE BY SHIVA

So this skumbag after years in this world of faith, restraint and patience, strives to enjoy Allah's pleasures and inflict pain upon women forever

Posted by: shiva
___
QUOTE BY CHAMP
Islam -- religion of peace? I guess Muslims believe that by killing every last human being on earth that we will finally have "peace on earth" because there won't be anyone left to fight with. Now I get it!
Posted by: champ
___

CHAMP AND SHIVA you guys are on the same side! We both dispese the lies of Islam.

I know that this jihad watch represents different opinions about life and religion (some of us are hindus others Buddihsts others Christians and Jews and others even Agnostics or just 'secular' with different views on everything from politics to religion --however we all agree that we all
love freedom and that Islam (which is a political movement --a nation really) wants to invade all our nations and force us under their law --
and we do not want that.

Why not focus on that? Hey maybe shiva has five girlfriends and maybe I dont believe in sex before marriage and so on . But who cares? In A FREE NATION like the USA or other NONISLAMIC pro-deomocracy countries it DOESNT MATTER you are free (as long as you dont force or hurt others)!! However ISLAM wants us to deny our freedoms, wants to force us to adopt ONLY their view (or pay crippling taxes if you are Christian or Jewish!) If you are atheist or hindu or buddisht your dead of course...

In the democratic west you can be atheist or Jew, playboy or monk , it doesnt matter thats the beauty of democracy . So you are both on the same side here you are ALLIES !!

Of course if the Nazis ran in a free western country nobody would vote for them because we know that they would take away all our freedoms unlike voting for other parties. Islam is like Nazism in this way and we are trying (and succeeding) in getting the word out. Islamics want their own party and their own law that would DENY any further fee democratic elections.

As the Omar Ahmad, co- founder of CAIR said:

“CAIR is not in the United States to promote the civil rights of Muslims. CAIR is here to make radical Islam the dominant religion in the United States and convert our country into an Islamic theocracy along the lines of Iran.”

Remember that everybody. CHAMP AND SHIVA I think you guys are on the same side!

Behold the new nazis are among us and they say the worship God but they worship a different kind of swastika...

for those interested read:
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0504/48.html

"If islam didn't think killing innocents was good, they wouldn't keep doing it."
Posted by: freewoman

How does Islam define "innocent"?

From the interview:
"BOMBER: America is destroying and exploiting the Arabic and the Islamic world as part of a Zionist and Crusader plan. The American Jews, we say, are the godfathers of this Zionist entity in America.

"Therefore this Daniel, I am sure, participated in the army activity. If not, he collected money for this Zionist entity. If not, he would decide one day to come to live here as a settler. Therefore there is no way that he can be defined as innocent."

QUOTE
"It means YOU interviewing somebody selected by YOU.
Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer."

Okay now I know you havent been on here for too long. Everybody on here knows that I have an exmuslim friend of Turkish descent named Bulent who I have MORE than interviewed but spoken to daily (we had lunch last day with our ladies) so for you to ignorantly state such nonesense only validates what I have been saying about people such as you who come on here out of the blue and want to "lay down the law".

As for the the Michael Corn INTEVIEW of the other terrorist MARYAM THAT WAS HERE IN TORONTO --AND I HAVE MET MICHAEL ON TWO OCCASIONS. I ALREADY EMAILED HIM A FEW DAYS AGO AND HE HAS RESPONDED. I TRUST HIM LIKE I TRUST MY OWN BROTHER. MY OWN FATHER HAS MET HIM AND WHEN I SAT DOWN WITH HIM HE TOLD ME ABOUT THE INTERVIEW HE HAD WITH THE JIHADIST sooooo please dont talk about things you have no clue about!

Also I was in a unique position since I live in the same city and had access to this journalist.
The others have to rely on the honesty of brave men like Mr Coren AND the journalist who was in Israel. To ask anything more of those people (because again I have you at a disadvantage since I know that journalist!) --to ask anything more of people on here who do not have direct access to such people but have access to honest reporting is a red herring in philosophical argumentation.
It goes something like this
1)you dont know if it was a real interview (unless you know the participant)
2)maybe the journalist is lying
3) maybe the journalist is part of a jewish or other conspiracy
therefore,
4)dont believe the interview
This flawed type of argumentation is used mostly by marxist and conspiracy theorists (hence my jesting at your nonesense last day) it is not
a serius or cogent approach to the issue at hand.
Next you will be telling me: how do you KNOW the towers went down you live in Canada you didnt go there in person.

Pure infantile non sequitor nonesense maryam.

And my exmuslim friend who I trust as a brother has MET such jihadists who said the EXACT same thing as Ahmed and as Tawfik in the Coren interview (Coren who I have ALSO MET! He has met my father as well. he is a very religious and honorable man):

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/issuesideas/story.html?id=eb74b136-3729-42a1-821b-77366f7af920&p=2

quote: "Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer."

pure garbage especially since you picked the WRONG person to say that too! I am probably one of the few on here who KNOWS an 'alleged' interviewer and an 'alleged' exmuslim who knew jihadist wannabes back in Turkey .

There was nothing 'alleged' of these people.

So you picked the wrong person.

Nice try.

QUOTE "I am probably one of the few on here who KNOWS an 'alleged' interviewer and an 'alleged' exmuslim who knew jihadist wannabes back in Turkey ."
Yes! That's good! That's what I am talking about. Analysing first hand information. Meet the people involved. Speak to someone who holds a view different to yours and has lived in the conflict. That is a much higher quality of data than soaking up everything fed to you on the news.
I am not here debating the rights and wrongs of the matter; I am trying to stimulate impartial research!

Maryam I do not usually comment on here but I read the articles regularly. I had to comment. I agree with Allies about your misconception of what it requires to transmit the truth. No, one does not have to be there in person to interview such a fellow in order to know that these suicide for Allah believers not only exist but continue to grow.

I came on here though because I *have* interviewed such a person. I am Jewish on my mother's side and was in Israel in 2003 only two years after the 9-11 attack. I was at a nightclub on a hot summer evening where there were a mixture of many types of people: jewish and nonjewish young people at this laid back nightclub playing mostly Euro-pop and serving very good food.

A very loud and rowdy group of arabic looking fellows shouted to me happily "hey american join us!" I was wearing my "I love NY" shirt.

There were four of them. One was Saudi and the others from the local area. The Saudi was very silent. As we spoke it became very apparent to myself that the Saudi hated the US and was happy about 9-11. The others chided him for not talking to some of the girls in the place who were obviously young and single. After I bought them all of them some food and drinks and basically befriended them by showing how us "rich" Americans aren't all that bad they told me why they had brought him there. It was a going away deal.
The Saudi wanted to blow himself up near a Jewish
deli a few blocks from where we were in a few days.

Maryam I *did* interview him and I spoke to him, because once he became relaxed with me he informed me with menacing glee that he did not need the girls in the club for he had pure ivory faced virgins waiting for him.

I attempted to contain my shock at what he said, because it was the first time I ever heard of this doctrine.

He told me many things and finally that he came from a good and nearly rich family in a city called Jiddah. He said that the beauty of Jiddah would pale in front of the beauty of Allah's paradise and fountains. He wanted to make sure he would get there after the tormenting period and wanted his virgins.

I spoke to him in person Maryam and I will never forget it.

However I doubt that is enough for a person such as you. You remind me of the old skeptics who would doubt their own shadows unless they saw them
daily.

When I was leaving for home, there had been several suicide bombers. I do not for the life of me know if that poor fellow was one of them.
However I will never forget the look of intensity on his face when he said he would be recieved in Allah's paradise and by his virgins.

It was a look of intense ecstasy.

In truth I felt sorry for him.

"I am not here debating the rights and wrongs of the matter; I am trying to stimulate impartial research!" by Maryam

Maryam I do not believe you are trying to stimulate anything other than doubt in the minds of the good folks here who know all too well that what they read is the truth. Not everybody needs to have the experience I did. Nor do I wish it upon them. Because the sadness I felt for this misguided person is the sadness I feel for all muslims such as you. I have to agree with the others. You are being dishonest because I see in your earlier posts that you are on here with an agenda other than stimulating impartiality. You are on here with a muslim agenda. This shows me by what you said in those posts you have your own mind made up before you came on here.

Maryam I spoke to this type of person. What about you Maryam, have you spoken to a suicide bomber?
If not I suggest to you that does not mean they do not exist. I have never seen air but I know it exists so with the people on here because they feel the effect of air. These people on here have all felt the effect of Islamic terrorism. They do not have to interview such people as I did in my chance encounter. Nor do I recommend it.

Again I feel sorry for your people. You have been duped by a philosophy of danger and dare I say hatred.

WOW thanks yank! Maryam I agree you are not here to stimulate impartial talk puleeeeeeease!! You had a whole long thing about Islam earlier. Maryam I hope you are not going to be wife #4 of some muslim guy huh! Muhammad lets you have 4 wives!!!

By the way everybody you can SEE Michael Coren on his own TV show every night if you catch CTS in Toronto. He constantly interviews muslims and they all say the garsh danrnest things. If you cant get it go to the cts website and ask about getting his programs. Not all of them are about islam, most are not because there are alot of Canada issues he deals with but you can ask about the muslim ones. Here is Coren's webstie

http://www.michaelcoren.com/

cts
http://www.ctstv.com/

ALLIES SHALL WIN --

You're right, and thanks for reminding me of what's important here. I got annoyed with some of his sexual disclosures, but I won't let it color my overall opinion of what he stands for. I like you, you're a cool dude.

Thank you for this excellent and powerful testimony, politely and frankly expressed.
I feel inclined to believe you, but his absurd beliefs are not in Islam, and your account of them conflicts directly with my own experience of Islam's beauty and truth.
Was there alcohol at this nightclub?
Were these muslims eying up girls?
If this is the case it seems to me that more education on correct Islamic beliefs would be the strongest weapon to counter it.

"have you spoken to a suicide bomber?
If not I suggest to you that does not mean they do not exist."

No but it does mean I have the right and even the duty to suspend any judgement on the matter, not accepting others' interpretations until I have gathered sufficient evidence and can explain the contra-indications.
And that is a responsibility we all have.

We are all in this together Champ! The French are very different than the English and really alot of them historically dont like each other but in WWII they had to fight side by side. This is bigger than all of us. Dont get me wrong I have different views about sex before marriage, abortion etc than shiva or say Yankee up there who knows? But maaaaaan these muslims take over with shira laws and its GAME OVER everybody loses!

Shiva brother you and champ and I should go out one day for a meal and youll see we all are on here for the same thing --its hard sometimes on here because words dont convey emotion like if we were in a room together and of course tempers flare. If you guys are ever in toronto --dinner at my favorite restaurant is on me!

If either of you are ever in Toronto (especially in the summer) email me at

gkufcfight@lycos.com

We infidels after all are a friendly lot. cheers!

QUOTE

No but it does mean I have the right and even the duty to suspend any judgement on the matter, not accepting others' interpretations until I have gathered sufficient evidence and can explain the contra-indications.
And that is a responsibility we all have.

RIGHT AND DUTY TO SUSPEND ANY JUDGEMENT?

Give me a break while I stop laughing Maryam. I notice you do not apply those rules to finding out the truth about Islam just be reading ALL of the hadiths and Quran and not evading or pretending all the killing lines and pedophile tales exist. Must I get out my looong book of verses out again. lol

As for my exmulsim friend Bulent when I spoke to him about Islam and alchol and girls he said: "muslims are like anyone else. They claim that they dont do these things but the nightclubs are full in Istanbul."

I dont yankee except on here but I know from Bulent that there was a lot of 'playing' around between the sexes among the young even in the most devout congregations. "kids will be kids" he likes to say.

This is not to say I agree with him that is how kids should act but that they DO act like that everywhere whether muslim or not is I think a matter self evident.

Americaningermany, I dont know any saudis but I do read many saudi blogs! And this Saudi girl on there talks about Saudi youth etc etc.

She is from the most muslim nation in the world and still she seems to act like a typical American teenager (except its down "under the radar" )

http://www.classic-diva.blogspot.com/

They are not differnt than us in dating and stuff but its all done "under the radar". I heard Muhammad Atta and his friends would visit night clubs in Florida and strip clubs actually before their 'mission' got called.

"You had a whole long thing about Islam earlier."

The purpose of this was to provide a contraindication to what you all think. A scientist continues believing in his theory until he comes across reliable evidence to the contrary. Then he has to explain the new evidence or abandon his theory.
My testimony, that of one with direct experience of Islam, should count as enough of a contradiction to your views to warrant investigation.
I am an English convert to Islam. I noticed a disparity between what I know and what I hear. I have come into the territory of those with opposite views to explain that disparity and stimulate impartial research.
You are all against Islam, and now have witness that a sane, educated, morally upright English woman (past childbearing) with no muslims to influence her converted to Islam on seeing its truth and goodness.
Go and speak to learned born muslims living in and recommended by their community. Explain the disparity to yourself and do impartial research. It's only what any fair, educated, scientific mind would do.

Americaningermany yes I was shocked that he spoke to me. But he was with his friends. The night was hot. The music pleasant and the patio very calm in the evening. His friends wanted me there not him. But then when he started talking he just told me. Just like that. I personally believe he was gloating. I think he wanted to show off to me as strange as it sounds. It was an odd way to tell me how spiritual he is. His friends had a sort of hate-love for America. They were dressed "western" but despised the US Govt but kept telling me "not the people, not the people." The Saudi however sat in stone like silence when they opined on that.

As for our visitor Maryam I concur she is in some sort of denial about Islam. But we are talking about her religion so in one sense I can understand why. Having said that though the surrounding evidence of what Islam creates in our world today is too intrusive to ingnore if one gives it proper rational consideration.
Also Allies you are correct. Many of the more devout sunni muslims seem to "indulge" when they are in sleeper cels. I believe this is so because once you have given your life for Allah your other sins are wiped from the scales of Allah on your spiritual account. So the short of it is that it makes no difference. However if you live as a devout muslim like Maryam then the scales are applied to you. Maryam your view about Islam is
innocent however it is tragically skewed. I encourage you to see out more experience in Islam and you will see that such teachings about Jihad are not unusual. Regardless, I felt deep sorrow for this poor devil.
I have said enough on the subject. I must concur with americaningermany and allies your rules of "gathering sufficient evidence" are a nice show but they fall short of basic common sense and seem more to do with protecting your idea of the purity of Islam. I understand that but I cannot defend it. Truth must go above even your personal beliefs on Islam. As for saying it is "a responsiblity that we all share". I understand that. But (and I do not mean any disrespect) I do not believe you understand it or what saying that really means.
To give you an example. If you were too meet one of these sad fellows like I did and he in great detail explained everything from the Quran and other teachings you would still not believe him. I do not mean you would not think he has a wrong view of Islam. No I believe you would not believe he was a "real" suicide bomber. Would his dead carcus need to land near your feet after he exploded killing some jewish deli customers a few feet away from you convince you? I think you would say "ah he was really poor." Or "He was deranged" But never "He believed". And that Maryam shows your intellectual dishonesty and handicap. Please understand I do not mean any disrespect. But your "rules" regarding "evidence" is a psychological defense mechanism rather than a
normal thirst for truth. This too is self evident.

I have to leave soon. Farewell all.

Maryam - if you're looking for a detailed inquiry into the legitimacy of suicide bombing in Islam, try this:

Suicide attacks not approved in Islam?

P.S. Shiva - I understand what you were getting at in your comments about virgins and I think it was a point well worth making. Also, for some reason I always thought you were a gal. Apparently not!

Maryam said "I am an English convert to Islam. I noticed a disparity between what I know and what I hear. I have come into the territory of those with opposite views to explain that disparity and stimulate impartial research."

I did not know being an English convert gives you some sort of edge on rationality. It does not. The English can be as irrational as any other race. I say this because you repeat it twice and make a point of telling us you are morally upright. As you doubt any truth we tell you and that you see by upstanding people in the media as Allie's friend Coren so we reserve the right to doubt you. Do you see how that works. On any account I have no doubt that the poor fellow I spoke to on that hot summer night was telling me the truth and was in fact quite devout.

awww come on yankee! dont leave us yet! This Canadian is begging you my yankee bro.

Maryam is English? Oh boy. Now I get it. Maryam ever been in Saudi Arabia? Middle East? And I dont mean as a guest of other Europeans either.

Yankkeboy Coren is not my personal friend. He is a very busy and very respected journalist in Canada my dad knows him and I have had the pleasure of talking to him in person twice (Im not counting emails). The email I use on here is NOT the one I use with Coren. I say this because if any helpful 'muslim' outthere tries to hack it so I cannot communicate with people--it wont work! This is only my jihadwatch email so do your worst. By the way huge amount of muslim hackers tried to hack into the Vatican website but it didnt work --its way too tight.

Knowing what I do it is difficult to believe a muslim could speak like that- they don't.
Yet you all swallow it whole without question.

Posted by: maryam at November 24, 2006 06:22 PM

..... Question this, you brainwashed, jihadi lunatic!: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061123/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictisrael_061123191918

"converted to Islam on seeing its truth and goodness. Go and speak to learned born muslims living in and recommended by their community. Explain the disparity to yourself and do impartial research. It's only what any fair, educated, scientific mind would do."
Posted above.

Yes, everyone gather 'round and uncritically accept the subjective accounts of biased followers. Utter rubbish.

Here, let me explain the disparity to myself: These "leaned born muslims" (?) are either liars or are themselves deceived or ignorant of Islam.

I've done my research. It started out impartial until I hit some unescapable conclusions.

It is YOU, Maryam, that needs to defend YOUR acceptance of the hateful, violent, misogynist religion of Islam as "truth and goodness".

QUOTE RE:MARYAM from STILLFEDUP:

I only see a weak, hippy, in-need-of-a-humma loony

STILLFEDUP you sized her up perfectly. My thoughts exactly. Lets all sing kumbaya and pass the gronala.
lol.

PS I have spoken to devout muslims (not my exmuslim friend was a muslim since birth and attended two religious schools before "coming to the truth about Islam" (his words not mine). Anyway I've spoken to other people who are currently muslim and are educated and are devout including one shiite ismaili, two sunnis and a "regular" shiite as he likes to say they all get antsy if you confront them with the quran/hadiths even in writing. They are scared of the truth I think.

maryam, what in the hell attracted you to islam? A man? Total regementation from birth to death?
Hate for everyone not muslim?
Jews are monotheistic, why not become a Jew?
Christians are monotheistic (although you say we are polytheists) Why not Christianity?
Is your brain in working order?

Maryam,

What about suras 9.38 and 9.111, just to name two off the top of my head? Does the Qur'an promise paradise (the penthouse paradise even) to those who kill and are slain for Allah, or not?

*Cue Jeopardy music*

Now if you personally don't believe it, or have your own interpretation, that's fine. But don't lie about our little Ahmed, or the thousands of Mohammeds just like him.

I thought Shiva made a very important point, and his level of detail was important for those out there who don't know or understand just what it's like to have sex when you are still a virgin.

It *IS* all about bringing eternal pain to women -- just another example of how much Muslim men fear and despise women.

And I actually laughed out loud when maryam suggested we educate ourselves before we form our opinions on Islam. I get the idea she must be REALLY BRAND NEW to the site, otherwise she would have seen how often Robert and many posters here back up their comments with links to VALID websites and articles.

Oh, yeah, but that's right... all those websites are tools by the evil Zionists and their minions to make it *SEEM* that Islam is evil and full of insane f'ing freaks who want to kill ALL non-Muslims, huh. Just like it's America behind all the insane kidnappings, tortures, and killings going on in Iraq right now -- yeah, we're doing all we can to make those Muslims look bad.

Boy, who knew America and those evil Jooooos were so SMART and POWERFUL ??

*hack spit*

maryam

"The purpose of this was to provide a contraindication to what you all think. A scientist continues believing in his theory until he comes across reliable evidence to the contrary."

Good I too am a scientist and a historian so lets see the evidence....

The evidence is clear..

The facts are....

(I) Faithful muslims who accept the truth contained in all Islamic holy books and law are against:

(1) Womens Rights
(2) Seperation of Religion and State
(3) Freedom of Speech and Religion
(4) Minority Rights (unless muslims are the minority)

(II) Faithful muslims who accept the truth contained in all Islamic holy books and law are duty bound to exact violence and punishment on anyone who accepts:

(1) Womens Rights
(2) Seperation of Religion and State
(3) Freedom of Speech and Religion
(4) Minority Rights (unless muslims are the minority)

(III) Western civilization as it stands today accepts:

(1) Womens Rights
(2) Seperation of Religion and State
(3) Freedom of Speech and Religion
(4) Minority Rights

Thus a conclusion is:

Islam is against western civilization. Islam will use violence to attack western civilization.

STILLFEDUP quote:
"If you ask any psychology expert they will tell you about the great discomfort some widow women go through (counting in also menopause) and they are desperately in need of something to belong to."

WOW you are good. She did mention she was past childbearing so I thought that was very odd to write that in there "Im english upright past childbearing.."

They need to belong to something. yeah . oooh boy. I always thought of most western women as being very careful about equal rights for women. Islam treats women like slaves and not only covers them in burkas but in Shiira law (according to all the three schools in Sunni and one in Shia ) treat women as 1/2 the value of a man in legal jurisprudence. 1/2 the value! And an "educated" woman is supposed to accept this? All the crap that women had to go through and now to just accept something like that! wow.

"Suicide is forbidden in Islam, the punishment is Hell, why would anyone think otherwise?"

Maryam,

Here's why: the many suicide videos produced by Palestinian suicide bombers and at least two of the 9/11 hijackers. They all state proudly what they are doing and why: suicide for Allah. We have the testimony of family members of those who were on Flight 93 who spoke to their loved ones before the plane went down. We have the tape produced by Osama and Zawahiri where they openly discussed the 9/11 attack and how it was perpetrated. Are all of them fabrications? Did all of those Palestinians make up their story? Saddam Hussein paid their families $25,000 after they carried out their attacks. Was he duped?

My question to you is: do Muslims consider a self-inflicted death (how can you NOT call it suicide when the perpetrator straps explosives on himself or rams a car filled with explosives into a crowd of people?) to be other than a suicide so long as it takes the life of at least one non-Muslim?

As for why we "swallow it whole": We know and trust the reporter that wrote the story. Not that we know him personally - do you know every reporter and do you automatically disbelieve everything that is written because you haven't spoken to people personally? You obviously believe those who tell you Mohammad ascended to heaven, even though you never interviewed him personally and neither did they. Are Muslims the only ones allowed to have faith in other people?

Ms. Namazie?

Scarify" would seem to be a variation of "terrify," if I might clarify. Indeed, primary jihad events like 9/11 instill terror, while a lone suicide bombing like Grandma Fatima's effort, which resulted in just a few scratches and scrapes for the IDF soldiers, rather simply scares us.

And you thought these Neanderthals had little capacity for language.

Posted by: Haid Dasalami

Actually it doesn't instill terror in me but rather revulsion and contempt. And now, over 5 years after 9/11 I have to confess I feel nothing but cold hatred for all moslems. If that makes me a bad guy then I am a bad guy. But at least I am not lying like those taqqiyah swine.

FYI. I saw 9/11 first-hand up-close and personal. People jumping out of windows - sometimes in twos holding hands - to avoid being burned alive when all they'd been at the WTC to do was to work and pay taxes. Taxes from which moslems also get their unfair share of benefit!

WOW you are good. She did mention she was past childbearing so I thought that was very odd to write that in there "Im english upright past childbearing.."

Whew! No suicide bombers from maryam!

because islam was the "underdog"...
Posted by: StillFedUp

hahahahh oh my word STILLFEDUP you got me so laughing I almost fell off my chair again. hahaha. Wow there are some real GENIUSES out there. Underdog huh. Thats like me joining Hitler's Nazi party back in 1920 when it was small and weak and with like 5 members because gawrsh darn poor Adolg was an 'underdog'. People need to distingish between good and evil never mind underdog. Anyways Islam is hardly an underdog in huge areas of the middle east and far east. As for islam appearing good. Yes when you separate yourself from ALL the quran/hadith then you can call it whatever you want. But actions speak louder than words. "By their fruits you shall know them." And the fruits I see fly airplanes into towers...(pun intended)

QUOTE by GERMANINAMERICA:

"FYI. I saw 9/11 first-hand up-close and personal. People jumping out of windows - sometimes in twos holding hands "

That one sentence your wrote brought it all back to me. Dear God I wasnt there I was seeing a video feed from here in toronto. And I bet Maryam, Naseem, CAIR and the rest of them will say, "they have hijacked our religion". yeah sure they did. Or your religion inspired those men to hijack two planes in keeping with proper spirit of outer "fight them with your hands' jihad.

Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah ONLY. Allah must have NO RIVALS.’” (ie only Islam in the land)

Qur’an:9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them BY YOUR HANDS, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.”

Watch the muslim who come here now say, 'oh it didnt really happen you must keep an open mind it was all the US govt men or Jews or space aliens or just a figment of your imagination' and THEN tell us we arent "impartial"

Truly there is evil in the world and thy name o serpant is Islam.

Dear Maryam:

You stated: "My testimony, that of one with direct experience of Islam, should count as enough of a contradiction to your views to warrant investigation."

Your testimony is not only worth very little according to Islamic teaching, but as an admitted follower of Islam, whose false "god" Allah says it alright to lie to the infidel, tells us to give your "testimony" little value.

Besides we have seen enough already of the TRUE Islam to know that anything good you would say about this vile religious and political tyrannical ideology would be a lie.

Many of us have also read the Quran, so why would we listen to you when we have the Quran as the true measurement of what Islam is along with the religious Islamic writings of "prominent distinguished" of the past and of our day. You're just a recent convert. You know very little compared to those "distinguished" Islamic scholars calling on jihad and death to all infidels!!! You're just a naive foolish "babe".

If I were a Muslim, a true follower of the Quran, I would tell you to get back to the kitchen and shut up! :)

I guess there is one good thing about Muslims is that their religion is so violent that when they aren't killing Jews, Christians, or infidels, they are killing each other!!!

It is a sad fact, that a 57 yr old grandmother named fatima strapped a bomb around her body in order to kill some jews.

Hamas has sunk to a new all time low. Using grannies to do their dirty work.

If someone here would press Maryam in a focused way, with lots of evidence making it impossible for her to wiggle out, she would likely avail herself of the "Muslim Two-Step" (which remarkably resembles the "Leftist Two-Step"):

STEP ONE:

1) Maryam: Islam is peaceful, the desire by some Muslims to suicidally/homicidally explode is not reflective of authentic Islam.

Rebuttal with a mountain of evidence.

STEP TWO:

2) Maryam: Oh, well, those Muslims are merely desperately trying to resist the evil West in its Colonialist, and then Post-Colonialist interference and aggression against the Muslim world, and in so doing the Muslim resistance is a) understandable, and [after she is sufficiently and efficiently pressed to the focal point] Islamically legitimate as defensive jihad, equivalent to Western "just war".

Notice how the second step in the Muslim Two-Step contradicts the first step; or at best is a cleverly sophistical (if not downright Orwellian) gloss on the first step.

The other leitmotif that peppers Maryam's posts is based upon the silly fallacy that, "I know some good Muslims, therefore there is no serious problem emanating out of the orbit of Islam."

Hamas should change it's name; based upon the first three letters of its name.

I always bristle when I hear a Muslim person say on the radio or on TV that Islam was hijacked by a minority of extremists.

I feel that it is disrespectful and narcissistic to suggest that Muslims were victimized on 9/11. They (who are alive to speak to the media) were not on the airplanes that were literally, and not figuratively, hijacked. They were not in the buildings that the hijacked airplanes were flown into.

I'm surprised they don't also say, every time a non-Muslim is beheaded, that Islam has been beheaded by a minority of extremists.

(Actually, I wish someone would say that: I could use a good laugh.)

There are none so blind as those that will not see and you rarely see anyone so determined not to see the point as Maryam. Perhaps she is on some sort of Muslim home-study taqiyya course and has been given the exercise of joining a kaffir thread and arguing that black is white and white is black, defending her positions to the last ditch.

A very interesting link here re Arab propaganda called 'turnspeak'

Be sure to bookmark it:

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/turnspeak.html

Maryam, now that I know you're a convert to islam I can understand your attitude much better, but for God's sake, don't you READ THE NEWS?
Not a day goes by that a maniacal suicide car bomber doesn't plow into a crowd of innocent civilians, fellow muslims, and blow them and himself to kingdom come in Iraq. IS THAT NOT SUICIDE?! It is not only SUICIDE, it is also HOMICIDE. Christianity forbids murder; ISLAM DEMANDS IT.

I don't know when, where, or how you could find any peace, love, or spirituality in the death cult of islam . I hope you are aware that apostasy is forbidden and punishable by death so if you should change your mind about being a muslim, your beloved "brothers and sisters" will hunt you down and kill you for leaving the cult.

Good luck and God help you. It's sad enough that billions of unfortunate people are born into this hideous faith, but there is no excuse for a sane Westerner to covert to it. I guess that means you're crazy.

or both...

or a deliberately obfuscating liar.

Posted by: Caroline

P.S. Shiva - I understand what you were getting at in your comments about virgins and I think it was a point well worth making. Also, for some reason I always thought you were a gal. Apparently not!

HA HA! you only find out now after all these years.

I brought up the point as no-body has taken up this issue before here and on the many other forums I have visited.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN

If either of you are ever in Toronto (especially in the summer)

Thanx

Should you ever be in Idonesia,I dont mind showing you around

Posted by: Champ

Shiva -- have you seen the movie, Borat? You remind me of him. You both have untamed tongues, in a stupid kind-a way.

What ever !

It means YOU interviewing somebody selected by YOU.
Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer.

Posted by: maryam at November 25, 2006 01:15 PM

.... have heard this kind of an absurd arguement, like "How can you say there is moon... have you been there? NO! So, how can you say that THAT is the moon?" you know... like the kids talking without any substance....

Hey Shiva -- I'm sorry for being so rude. Friends?

Posted by Maryam

I am an English convert to Islam. I noticed a disparity between what I know and what I hear. I have come into the territory of those with opposite views to explain that disparity and stimulate impartial research.
You are all against Islam, and now have witness that a sane, educated, morally upright English woman (past childbearing) with no muslims to influence her converted to Islam on seeing its truth and goodness.

Well I happen to be also English,and I happen to have lived in East Java for the last 12 yrs,so do you want to discuss Islam with some-one who has first hand knowledge of islam

Hows this for starters

Do you know the story of the innocent THREE-YEAR-OLD Chinese GIRL who was BRUTALLY BUTCHERED by the Indonesian Malay/moslem rioters when they broke into her parents house, in Tanjong Pinang, of Indonesia?
The rioters first broke into her parents' house. They KILLED her grandmother.

Then the rioters RAPED and BUTCHERED her mother

Finally they MURDERED this INNOCENT 3 year-old Chinese GIRL, by smashed open her skull, with a metal pipe.

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/10/where-i-live-pt11_24.html

Or this

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/03/where-i-live-pt7.html

Qur’an 8:69
“So enjoy what you took as booty; the spoils are lawful and good.”

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/03/where-i-live-pt6.html

9-month old Agnes Debora Souhoka was killed during the attack by the Laskar Jihad in Soya village

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/02/where-i-live-pt2.html

More than 30 churches where burn,and I witnessed this.The only reason I am alive to-day is because me and a few friends where in a police bus,for our own protection.

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/02/where-i-live-pt1.html

Posted by: champ

Hey Shiva -- I'm sorry for being so rude. Friends?

Okay,now lets rumble in the same direction

Maryam,

Your posts strike me as sincere and quite articulate, although a bit biased and naive. And you have received responses ranging from bitterly sarcastic to amazingly experienced, but all expressing varying degrees of truth.

Whether you are "crazy", "stupid", or an intentional "liar", I know not, but I do believe that you have be deceived. And deceived by the Master of Deception (i.e., Satan, the devil, Allah). As a Christian believer, we are taught by our Savior Jesus Christ that Satan (Allah) was a murderer from the beginning and is the father of lies (John 8:44).

The evil that we see everyday in this world between Islam and everything non-Islamic is a battle and primarily a spiritual battle. It is a spiritual battle that has existed from the beginning of mankind and will not end until the Christ returns. The outward dimensions of this battle are visibly manifested in the atrocities of genocide and beastly violence of man toward man, and manifested in the transparent denials and blatant untruthful misinformation spread by bevies of Muslim individuals and organization (e.g., CAIR), and even manifested in the simplistic and blind (and perhaps sincere) posts of devout followers of the great deceiver Allah.

Maryam, let me encourage you to recognize the spiritual nature of this conflict and to apply your own advice to seeking truth, especially with respect to the overwhelming evidence of wickedness perpetrated in the name of Islam, now and over the past 1300 years. According to the Christian system of beliefs, every man will one day stand before an infinitely Holy God and give an account of his life. Holiness is a beautiful and fearful concept that is completely absent in Islam. In that last day, because God's Holiness is infinite, a moral life will not measure up. There *must* be a necessary and just satisfaction for sin, our sin, individual sin. This concept of a necessary and just satifaction of sin is completely missing in Islam that is instead slavishly ruled by a arbitrary and capricious executioner. Due to God's infinite holiness, sin deserves infinite punishment. So, who will be able stand in that last day? No one... except for those who believe and rest in the One who substituted Himself in their stead, Jesus Christ, who was sinless and perfect, yet suffered the infinite agonies of punishment in hell for His chosen ones. Islam offers no such guarentee of assurance of salvation nor any such picture of righteous justice and sacrificial love.

I do pray that you will come to realize the depth of your deception and the eternal danger that you are accepting under satanic Islam.

Dear ReformedPresbyterian:

That was an excellent post and I must admit more Christlike than mine...uh well I'm going for the Lord is a warrior scenario!!! :)

Well spoken ReformedPresbyterian based on solid doctrine, i.e. Word of God.

"ReformedPresbyterian"? Does that mean you are now Baptist? LOL Just kidding! :)

Islam is an extreme version of the "works mentality", i.e., you can struggle to earn paradise under your own efforts or try at least to please a "god" which is hard to please with it being almost the "luck of the draw" to see paradise unless you kill yourself killing infidels.

Poor Maryam, if she only knew what she had done. Being a middle aged woman beyond childbearing age, she's a poor catch, only good for PR. If she were a younger woman, she'd be married off to a Muslim male pretty quick, a good one from the home country, where she'd be shipped back to his cesspool right quick and pumped full of babies to raise future little jiahdis. But she doesn't know this, nor that if she ever tries to leave her 'religion of peace' she's target for a death fatwa. She doesn't know this. But other women who had gone the experience know, and they who escaped talk about it, with horror. Here is where poor Maryam can read up on what these women had gone through.

Women in Islam: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles.htm#women

God help her, but she's safe, past childbearing. It's the younger, foolish western women for whom we should weep, because they will be the jihadi suicide bomber Muslim baby factories.

I am at a loss to understand why any woman in her 50s would be so stupid and convert to Islam, which is not a religion but a political system disguised as religion.

Islam is a cult in the modern sense of the word "cult". The adherents are so crazed that they get upset over a bunch of cartoons, or they get upset because they cannot stand to hear the truth about themselves.

The would-be suicide bomber is relating the same thing that is to be heard by those who have committed murder-suicide in the name of Allah. Oh yes, it is claimed that suicide is forbidden, and this is true within Islam. What we have is a difference in applied terminology. Muslims do not comprehend that they are committing suicide when they blow themselves up in an effort to kill those they believe to be the enemy of Allah. They see that action as being to them a "just cause", for which they will be rewarded. On the other hand, the righteous (Jews and Christians who follow the Will of God, plus Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Hindu and others who also listen to the law of God written on their hearts) understand that killing innocent people with bombs is murder, and that using oneself as a human bomb is suicide.

In Islam it is only suicide if a life is taken without intentionally trying to harm others. This is yet another reason why Islam is not a religion based upon knowledge of the One True God.

I suspect that Maryam must be a blonde - the kind of woman who does not truly think for herself in an intelligent way, or she wants to prove what a wonder psuedo-intellectual she is, with her claim that she was not under duress to do something as foolish as becoming an Islamic convert.

Most of this problem in israel, chechnya and afghanistan is the handiwork of Arab-punjabi trained islamists.

The american funding in billions of dollars is being siphoned by punjabis through ISI etc to train the jihadists.

Similarly arab oil money (sold to america and used in our SUVs with impunity) is being siphoned for savage wars against israel, in chechnya and India, afghanistan and kashmir.

There is an interesting documentary.

My favourite ZK! Glad you could join us.
No, I'm not a hippy

"I always bristle when I hear a Muslim person say on the radio or on TV that Islam was hijacked by a minority of extremists."

Me too. They aren't following Islam at all.

I became convinced over many years that there really was a God.
I thought assuming He cares for us He will have sent some instructions.
I thought those instructions will be comprehensive, with a large group of people (not a small obscure sect); unchanged, and here for a long time.
I'd already seen the bible and Christianity that didn't fit
So I looked at Islam.
It is true.
The Qur'an is it, the direct Words of our Creator.
If you disagree that is fine, but don't tell me the religion I follow recommends atrocities cos it doesn't! If terrorists exist at all it is because of the West, and only the West is profiting from the weakest battle plan in history. They are not following Islam, just as the IRA setting car-bombs would call themselves christians but were not following christianity.

Maryamotroll, we know what Islam teaches. It teaches its followers to look at poeople who are more civilized them then as lower than worms. Actions speak louder than your lying words, and as regards Islam they have done so for 1,380-plus years - witness the destruction of, and the slaughter of the citizens of the Byzantine Empire, plus once formerly Buddhist Afghanistan and Zoroastrian Iran, not to mention the advanced Christian civilizations which once made up the Middle East. And now your sort are trying to destroy Western civilization today and murder its inhabitants if they refuse to submit to the devil-God Allah, just as surely as you destroyed those cultures centuries ago - something which you've been unable to do in the West for almost 500 years, dating back to the Siege and battle of Vienna. Your brutal faith subjugates women, sees nothing wrong with crashing planes loaded with passengers of all ages and both sexes into skyscrapers, all on the promise of having sex with 72 hags in hell - probably hags who look like you. I'm grateful for folks like Pelayo, Martel, Sobieski and Graf von Salm, because without them there would be no Western Civilization - the civilization whose medical advances kept alive corrupt infidel-hating sods like Sistani - in one of our hospitals, and was he grateful for it? Not a cat in hells chance - he probably thought the nurses should be covered up in hideous burkas, just as you, in your tiny barbaric and antisemitic mind, think we should be degraded in similar fashion, and whose scientific advances enabled trolls like you to post your medieval claptrap on these boards, not to mention Ahmadinnernuts bloodthirsty and wicked fantasy to carry out the nuclear destruction of Israel. But it aint gonna work, because sooner or later, political correctness will wither and die in the West, maybe catalysed by another massive atrocity like 911, then the no-holds-barred truth will get told about your bloodthirsty cult, and appropriate action will get taken. And it won't be pretty either.

At the end of the day.
It gets dark.
Then we switch on the light bulb !
Is it not time to put all this religious war and hatred of each other aside and use the vast amounts of money that it takes to keep up this bloodshed of mostly innocent lives to better use amonst the needy in the country of origin rather than let them die of starvation or disease.
After all which ever god you believe in they all want peace for there children.
Only when this happens can the human race advance further,until then we will never find the light switch becuase we are all blinded by our own issuses with our own religions.
Come on find the light switch and let us all walk into the light.
rr

Maryam,

I'm curious, why do you care? Why do you feel this strong NEED to convince the people on a site called Jihadwatch that you KNOW the truth about Islam?
If it really is a "Religon of Peace" then you have nothing to worry about. Peace will rule over hate. It is not like we are going strap on a vest to blow YOU UP!
Our God/ GOD has given us strict rules about that. There is no ambiguty in the Christian religion about right and wrong. Suicide is a sin, reguardless of the excuse for it.
Your desire to be a "Tokyo Rose" to these troops tells a lot about your self-doubts.
You say you are English - as opposed to being British?

About the Saudi bomber guy - When he says he hates our govt., not the people. This is something the muslims don't get about America.
We ARE the government. Americans Do Not belong to America it belongs to us. Each and every one of us IS America.
Kind of makes it difficult to take down our government doesn't it?

It means YOU interviewing somebody selected by YOU.
Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer.

Posted by: maryam at November 25, 2006 01:15 PM

To Maryam,

Okay. I've never spoken to Mohammed. How am I to know he really existed if I have no "first hand" evidence? Therefore I can no more believe the Koran (allegedly the word of Allah as given to that same alleged Mohammad of whom I have no "first hand" evidence of his existence) than I can this news story.

Oh, the fun we could have with this! Luxembourg? Nope, sorry. Never been there and never spoken to anyone who's been there, so I can't know for certain it exists. Haggis? Never eaten it myself nor have I ever spoken to anyone who claims to have eaten it, so I suspect it's just an inside joke among Scots. The Crusades? Sorry, I have no "first hand" evidence, so I choose to believe it's all a myth propagated by Muslims to justify attacks on Christians.

The latter posts of Maryam -- on November 26, 2006 07:08 AM and November 26, 2006 07:35 AM -- ignore, with inexcusable arrogance, the many impassioned and articulate responses to her on this thread.

"The latter posts of Maryam -- on November 26, 2006 07:08 AM and November 26, 2006 07:35 AM -- ignore, with inexcusable arrogance, the many impassioned and articulate responses to her on this thread." Posted by: remote_control

Yup, she's a confirmed Mulsim all right, brain dead, so no reasoned argument will make a dent. Igorance, for her, is Allah's bliss.

I thought those instructions will be comprehensive, with a large group of people (not a small obscure sect); unchanged, and here for a long time. I'd already seen the bible and Christianity that didn't fit So I looked at Islam. It is true. The Qur'an is it, the direct Words of our Creator. If you disagree that is fine, but don't tell me the religion I follow recommends atrocities cos it doesn't! If terrorists exist at all it is because of the West...
Posted by: maryam at November 26, 2006 07:35 AM

I am impressed. You personally fulfilled all of the instructions, admonitions and commands of the JudaeoChristian scriptures, and THEN came to the conclusion that there were not enough! What a feat! I had only heard of one person doing that before, but he came to a different conclusion.

The second part of the quote of your post is too delusional to get a grip on. Did you not read remote_control's "Muslim Two Step" posted above??

STEP ONE:

1) Maryam: Islam is peaceful, the desire by some Muslims to suicidally/homicidally explode is not reflective of authentic Islam.

Rebuttal with a mountain of evidence.

STEP TWO:

2) Maryam: Oh, well, those Muslims are merely desperately trying to resist the evil West in its Colonialist, and then Post-Colonialist interference and aggression against the Muslim world, and in so doing the Muslim resistance is a) understandable, and [after she is sufficiently and efficiently pressed to the focal point] Islamically legitimate as defensive jihad, equivalent to Western "just war".

Maryam: If you disagree that is fine, but don't tell me the religion I follow recommends atrocities cos it doesn't! If terrorists exist at all it is because of the West...

If thats the case Maryam, then explain this...Allah admits he is a terrorist...this is way before the 'west' was invented...

008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Also explain these pre-western statements about terrorism...
Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:7:3 “Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

Bukhari:V9B87N127 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.’”

Qur’an:33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.

There's a lot more than that...but it proves that Islamic terrorism existed pre-west...

My dear ZK, I respond more to politeness, but I make an exception for you!
I have not heard of Khayber so can't comment. The question though is not whether it was an attrocity but whether Islam condones it. And Islam does not condone attrocity.
I cannot answer questions about Islam except for my personal experience. This is partly because even if I were to research and present a sound reply you would still reject it. As I have said many times, if you have a question about Islam, speak to a respected scholar in a community. Do not think you can pick a verse of Qur'an and know what is meant by it, and don't think you can tell what it means to others either.

"There's a lot more than that...but it proves that Islamic terrorism existed pre-west..."

Nope, it proves you can impose your own unschooled interpretation on verses out of context.

World television is owned by the same people.
They don't air views or events that give a different impression to the one side they are trying to push as the 'truth'. If they do then for each programme about the goodness of a topic there are fifty opposing it.
What the people believe gives them power; controling what the people believe is controling the power.
You have a tremendously one-sided view fed you by the media and if you want to balance it out you must seek out the other side. Try a Palestinian website. Try finding out what Iraqis think of the war. Read some accounts of ex-inmates of Guantanamo bay.
You have to look harder for them because they aren't in the main media but they are there. This is all I ask, and you'd think it was a lot the way you act but it is NORMAL PROCEDURE for academics to ensure they have encompassed all the evidence and not to rely heavily on one source.

StillFedUp:
My family are all Christian and some have turned their backs on me.
Muslims do not consider nonmuslims as secondclass citizens. This is another example of the incorrect information being fed thru the media.
I have to obey my nonmuslim parents in all matters except religion: honour them, keep good company with them, and even honour their friends.
There are many examples of hundreds of years of peaceful coexistence of muslims and nonmuslims within a muslim society.
You have read one account of Khayber, now go and find a pro-Mohammed (peace be upon him) account and compare the two.
If muslims have honour killings its cultural not Islamic.
People leave Islam every day, muslims feel sorry for them.

Do not think you can pick a verse of Qur'an and know what is meant by it, and don't think you can tell what it means to others either.
Posted by: maryam

What, are you next going to say if you don't speak or read classical Arabic you can't understand the message of the Qur'an?

I have not heard of Khayber so can't comment. The question though is not whether it was an attrocity but whether Islam condones it. And Islam does not condone attrocity.
Posted by: maryam

Oh, I get it. If Islam condones something, then BY DEFINITION, it is not an atrocity.

This is all I ask, and you'd think it was a lot the way you act but it is NORMAL PROCEDURE for academics to ensure they have encompassed all the evidence and not to rely heavily on one source.
Posted by: maryam

Let's see... you rely solely on the Qur'an to determine if something is right or wrong, except you don't even do that, you rely solely on your "i-mama", and expect us to do so also.

Muslims do not consider nonmuslims as secondclass citizens.
Posted by: maryam

Surah 98:6 and 5:51 ring any bells (oh, that's right, you don't actually read the Qur'an).

You have read one account of Khayber, now go and find a pro-Mohammed (peace be upon him) account and compare the two.
Posted by: maryam

What, the Qur'an wasn't good enough this time?

Maryam,

Have you ever read the Pact of Umar?

I forget. You don't read. Ask your i-mama.

I will give Maryam the benefit of the doubt, (for now) instead of accusing her of obfuscation and lying for the sake of Islam, I will suggest that she is ignorant of her own faith.

The term "suicide bomber" is English and an unfortunate choice of words, as it fails to convey the intentions behind the deed from an Islamic point of view.. and in Islam (according the Qur'an) intentions are everything, thus a bad deed done with the "right intentions" is acceptable to Allah and forgiven.. that is in the Qur'an.

Suicide (for personal reasons) is indeed forbidden by the Qur'an and Islam, as is lying to save one's own skin and neck, however if the purpose of lying is to protect another muslim from a kaffir or to save the face of Islam or to save the ummah from fitna (embarassment) or to propigate (Da'wa) the faith then lying for the sake of Islam is not only acceptable but mandatory and required.. we know this as taqiyya and kitman.

Same with dying for the sake of Islam, for a person to give up their lives for the sake of Islam is an act of the highest reward, and it is not considered suicide as these people are called Shaheeds (meaning Witnesses, the same meaning as the word martyr).. witnesses or shaheeds for the faith..

They are not committing suicide, they are engaged in acts of faith to propigate and protect Islam and the Ummah.. these are acts of the highest and greatest and they grant the shaheed (suicide bomber) immediate access to the highest level of Jennah (paradise) (according to muslim beliefs that is).

Therefore Maryams argument that the Qur'an forbids suicide is both accurate and a red herring, because we are not talking of suicide, the Shaheeds are engaged in a holy struggle in the cause of Allah (Jihad) and giving up their lives as a supreme act of holy faith in the belief that they get immediate passage to Jennah, by passing the accounting of sins, and act as an intermediary for the passage of their family to Jennah.

There is no argument then, and persistence by Maryam and the likes is merely evidence of her own ignorance and/or attempt to deflect and dissemble (taqiyya and kitman).

Nariz,

Nice post, but you lost me on the distinction between "deliberately obfuscating liar" and "attempt to deflect and dissemble (taqiyya and kitman)". This is a Muslim distinction whose closest parallel in Western thought is "white lies"; but we are not talking about Aunt Edna's new hairdo.

Perhaps she is merely ignorant. However, culpability for truth exists at multiple levels. If she is deceived, then her culpability lies in her blind trust in the deceiver. If she is ignorant, she might be excused for mental deficiency, but if not deficient, then she is culpable for her lack of inquiry and diligence, magnified by her accusation of lack of same in others.

Her speaking as a (former) Westerner to a Westerner deliberately using the semantics and definitions of a foreign mindset, is just another form of deceit.

Maryam,

Why waste your time here?

What are you doing to reform militant Islam where Islam is dominant? Because it seems all of your concern is about how Islam is perceived and portrayed IN THE WEST.

And what of our criticism of Islam? If it is incorrect that Mohammad was a pedophile, thief, murderer, mutilator, torturer, etc. and taught others to do the same, or if it is incorrect that the Qur'an commands killing and enslaving in the manner it is and for 14 centuries has been actively practiced by jihadists, or if it is incorrect that Allah was capricious and cruel, just show us where we are wrong.

Because if you can't, then there is no reason to expect us to make nice while Muslims infiltrate and outbreed us, when it is readily apparent that a real (but not "tiny") fraction of them wish us harm.

I think mostly you are embarrassed to be associated with this cult, displacing anger, and are trying to construct a parallel universe where the things jihadis do doesn't really come from your Noble Qur'an, and therefore doesn't require the attention you should be giving jihadists instead of us. So go ahead, do the right thing, give it your best shot and theologically refute the jihadis. Get your i-mama to help you.

It would appear that in addition to being lost and adrift at sea, poor Maryam is a self-hating, left-wing moonbat as well. She hates the West and blames it for all the world's problems. Islam is the perfect answer to that problem, although I rather doubt Maryam has yet experienced the joys of being worth half as much as a man. In her case, she's actually worth nothing because her child-bearing days are over, so what good is she? Women are good for sex and having babies, and macho muslim males of all ages tend to prefer pre-adolescent wives. Imagine Maryam's plight if she were an unmarried, widowed, or divorced woman in Afghanistan. She would probably starve to death on the streets if she wasn't killed first for some minor infraction, like existing. That's how much muslims care about unmarried, middle-aged females. They are WORTHLESS.

Maryam is a lost cause; let her find out for herself what islam is. She proved her ignorance when she blamed the West for terrorism. She is a fool.

Nariz, you are the one ignorant about my faith. Your information on shaheeds is incorrect.
CC, I am not trying to get you to change your mind, merely to evaluate another point of view.
Nothing I have said is intended as misleading. I have not lied.
Susanp, again, what you describe is sensational media rubbish. I could refute it in 20 different ways but until you choose to evaluate another viewpoint there would be no use my doing so.
www.islamic.org.uk is a good place for answers to most of the questions and wrong assertions that occur on this site.

Maryam,

You will have to explain how Nariz is uninformed about the shaheed, because it looks "dead on" to me, and to many "Palestinians" signing up for it. Why is "your" Islam theologically more consistent than "their" Islam? How do you interpret Surah 3:169, and what prevents the suicide bomber from realizing that reward? Explain it to him.

003.169
YUSUFALI: Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;
PICKTHAL: Think not of those, who are slain in the way of Allah, as dead. Nay, they are living. With their Lord they have provision.
SHAKIR: And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

Sensational media hype? You mean like this? Or how about the fauxtography scandals with poorly photoshopped images made by Muslim "stringers"?

Why do you think that just because we don't admit to watching Al-Jazeera that we haven't been objective enough. We have read from your tafsir, ahadith, seera, and "noble" Qur'an, and read from teachings at Al-Azhar, from Saudi and Pakistani schoolbooks, and from literature distributed in Western mosques. What do you read?

"that's because of your christian upbringing,
No, my christian upbringing allows me to keep my distance from difficult situations, it is only Islam that insists I am good to my parents.
"the koran states that christians and jews are sons of apes and pigs"
I very much doubt it. Again it is a matter for your research. It is a great sin for me to speak of matters I have no knowledge of. Got a reference? Speak to a scholar of Islam or leave a question on an Islamic website.
"this is not true and it's the result of muslim propaganda shoved down our throats for too long."
OR: it IS true and you don't want to see it because of all the media propaganda you've already swallowed and digested.

"How do you interpret Surah 3:169, and what prevents the suicide bomber from realizing that reward?"

It is a very serious matter to interpret the Qur'an and one I have avoided. MY interpretation does not matter, it would be arrogant of me to presume it did, there are scholars for enquiries about Qur'an. As I repeatedly say, you must not pluck verses out of context and think you understand them.
What prevents the suicide bomber from doing this is;
a)He knows not to interpret Qur'an by himself
b)suicide is not "slain in Allah's way"

it is only Islam that insists I am good to my parents

Exodus 20: 12 Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

"the koran states that christians and jews are sons of apes and pigs" I very much doubt it.

005.059
YUSUFALI: Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"
PICKTHAL: Say: O People of the Scripture! Do ye blame us for aught else than that we believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed aforetime, and because most of you are evil-livers?
SHAKIR: Say: O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?

005.060
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
PICKTHAL: Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs for retribution with Allah? (Worse is the case of him) whom Allah hath cursed, him on whom His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road.
SHAKIR: Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.

It is a great sin for me to speak of matters I have no knowledge of.

Then the whole Qur'an would seem to be off limits for you.

It is a very serious matter to interpret the Qur'an and one I have avoided. MY interpretation does not matter, it would be arrogant of me to presume it did, there are scholars for enquiries about Qur'an.

"We were only following orders", Soldiers of the Third Reich, Nuremburg Trials.

As I repeatedly say, you must not pluck verses out of context and think you understand them.

Sound, I agree. Part of that would be to read them chronologically to avoid the problem of al nasikh wa al mansukh (abrogation), and to compare to the sahih ahadith, the companions, early tafsir, fiqh, etc., all of which Robert constantly does in abundance.

Acting as though you cannot interpret what is ex facie is a pathetic ruse. Everytime you get in a theological pickle, you can just claim pious ignorance and demurely defer to your i-mama.

But look, you did it anyway:

b)suicide is not "slain in Allah's way"

who are you to interpret this when Muslim "scholars" SEND "shaheed" off to do this. Make your argument with THEM. (Feel free to practice said argument here).

". We have read from your tafsir, ahadith, seera, and "noble" Qur'an, and read from teachings at Al-Azhar, from Saudi and Pakistani schoolbooks, and from literature distributed in Western mosques. What do you read?"

You have read this material with a mind already made up against it and an eye looking for flaws. Scholars spend their lifetimes studying the correct interpretation of these profound texts, yet with an arrogance not unusual in nonbelievers you seem to think you will instantly grasp the correct meaning. If you are seeking the truth on a subject, know that knowledge is passed from heart to heart; person to person. Talk with a learned and pious muslim.
It's 1.15am here I've got to go!

Well, I see that Maryam has, since my last post, apparently taken the time to address some of the posts here. I will take a look at them soon and see if they are responsive and reasonable.

Scholars spend their lifetimes studying the correct interpretation of these profound texts, yet with an arrogance not unusual in nonbelievers you seem to think you will instantly grasp the correct meaning.

My job differs from yours. All I have to do is look at the cross-product of numbers of scholars times the number of centuries of Islam, and look to see if this huge cross-sectional area of prevailing theological and lay interpretations coincides with the text, then determine if that offends me. And it does.

It is YOUR job to convince your i-mama and the "scholars" of "extremist" Islam they are wrong and have been wrong for 14 centuries.

Imam remote_control (you've been promoted, see below),

Actually she completely acted out your "Muslim Two Step". It was very unbecoming for her, especially since it was so close to verbatim that I couldn't tell if she had inadvertantly adopted it from you, just like she admits to accepting lock-stock-and-barrel her i-mama's renderings.

To Maryam:

I fear for you, Maryam. Having been apparently exposed to Christianity through your family and of your own initiative, I trust that you can understand that, in your present state of being, you appear to be a "vessel of wrath prepared for destruction." (Romans 9:22) I tremble at the very thought of that and will continue to pray that you may be delivered from Satan/Allah's stranglehold.

To all others:

You all have posted rational, clearly expressed, and excellent responses and direct questions to Maryum.

Her latest posts seem to reveal a person who is bitterly anger at God and has chosen to follow the most vile imitation of a revealed religion, the one that is most antithetical to Christianity. Perhaps this choice has been some pathetic attempt on her part to spite God and/or others in her life similar to when a foolish child chooses rebellious behavior in order to spite his parents.

She also appears to display an aversion to accepting personal responsibility as evidenced by seeking "some comprehensive instructions" (to do what exactly?), disingenuously blaming the West for terrorism (kudos to remote-control for predicting that one), and failing to produce even ONE Quranic verse or iota of real substance that defends her fallacious positions or supercilious allegations toward us. This pathological victimhood and blame-game mentality is a most nauseating and predictable behavior peculiar to Islam and its spineless lackies.

Finally, I suspect that Maryum rather enjoys the attention she gets from her estranged family and the local mosque for her conversion to Islam--despite her inch-deep understanding of that religion. Look, she has garnered three days of personal attention from a multitude of JW posters, myself included, and has offered exactly what in return? Zero insight, zero substance, empty platitudes, shallow deferals of excellent questioning to your local "muslim learned and pious", and mindless drivel about JW posters being uninformed and ignorant of the "truths" of Islam. Please.

Keep up the good work, guys and gals. You are zealous and prepared warriors in this battle. May our numbers increase each day.

Levi, no, not Baptist, no false advertising here. Thanks for asking though! You're right on the mark with Islam's "works mentality".

Maryam, in my quick search of Islamic opinions I found this item from AskImam.com

Question: I understand that the concept of suicide bombing is permissible.But is suicide bombings permissible, when carried out in public places where civilians are certain to be killed.

Answer 9558 2003-09-05

Generally, suicide bombings is not permissible anywhere, not in the war field or in public places. However, the ruling for a specific situation may differ. and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best Mufti Ebrahim Desai

Please note this sentence from the opinion:
"However, the ruling for a specific situation may differ." It appears that there my be a situation where suicide bombings are OK.

Here's my suggestion: Go to this site, http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/form.shtml , and ask the Imam for a clarification. Then, you can "go away and never come back."

"I very much doubt it. Again it is a matter for your research. It is a great sin for me to speak of matters I have no knowledge of. Got a reference? Speak to a scholar of Islam or leave a question on an Islamic website." Posted by: Maryam

Poor dear. "It is a great sin for me to speak of matters I have no knowledge of.", she has accepted the standard line "Islamic scholars know best" so her thinking capacity has been shut off. It's like putting a burqua on her with eyes shut tight. This is also as demanded by islam, that she not think. Into the kitchen, and please you man, as Mohammed told you to.

BTW, this thread has gone longer and farther, but that's thanks to Maryam's contributions!

OT, but so Maryam understands her duties to Islam, where she is like tilth unto a man:

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Quran 4:34

Apostasy is another story, let her find out for herself.

MaryAm stated:

"It is a very serious matter to interpret the Qur'an and one I have avoided. MY interpretation does not matter, it would be arrogant of me to presume it did, there are scholars for enquiries about Qur'an.'

Now that has got to be one of the stupidest statements that I have ever read. What are words for?

To convey a message! To whom? The Reader!!!

I was brought up Baptist and I am grateful for being so. I recall a Baptist preacher state that NEVER NEVER take his word for what the WORD OF GOD says. Read it for yourselves!!!! And I am impressed with a church when I see people taking the Bible to church to hear a sermon and to read along.

Of course, on another website I mentioned in a post that "thank God there is a hell". One responsive poster stated there was not an eternal hell and I should read "Catholic encyclopedia and other similar works". I responded that why should I read the works of fallible men when I can read the Word of God for myself! Another responsive poster commented asking did I think I was infallible? And instructed me that I should learn from Jesus to be a little more humble and not so arrogant!!! Something this lawyer can find difficult at times! LOL However, I did not respond because the whole topic of hell and the Bible was way off topic. I just let it slide and figured even if I mentioned all the verses where Jesus specifically mentioned hell where the worm dieth not and that hell and hades would one day be thrown in the eternal lake of fire where the fallen angels and unrepentant unborn again mankind will end up as discussed in Revelation probably would just be a waste of my time let alone be off topic.

But see how people operate! First someone ELSE must interpret what THEY read instead of doing it for themselves. Secondly, people would have someone ELSE regurgitate what the Word of God says instead of reading it for themselves. These someone ELSES are merely fallible men. God gave us a BRAIN, so we should USE IT (unlike the Muslims obviously) seeking guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Maryam refusal to interpret and understand the Quran herself is not arrogant, but down right foolish and stupid. People who refuse to think, but blindly follow as dumb sheep, are one of Satan's greatest resources.

And by the way Maryam, I have read Satan's handbook called the Quran from page 1 to the last page so NO ONE could accuse me of taking something "out of context". And having done so, the Quran is a collection of some of the biggest lies ever told. It is a vile ideology of barbaric violent evil and eventual eternal damnation for the believer of Islam.

Saw a sign either here, Dhimmi Watch, or The Jawa Report, held by a Muslim that "Jesus Christ was not the Son of God" but merely an apostle of Islam. Another MAJOR MAJOR lie, i.e. the Spirit of an anti-christ. We Christians do NOT worship the same God, i.e. the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as Muslims do. The Muslim "god" allah is merely a creation of Satan. Isa of the Quran is NOT the Jesus of the Bible. Isa is merely a counterfeit and not even a good one at that!!!

Clarification:

I stated: "We Christians do NOT worship the same God, i.e. the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as Muslims do."

Upon rereading it, I think I got it backwards or can be "confusing".

WE worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as Christians.

The Muslims don't.

Now I feel better.

Most of the posters who responded to Maryam have much more patience than I do. Your efforts are all for nought if you think Maryam is a rational human being; but they were not a waste of time for the useful purpose of sharpening our pens-mightier-than-swords.

"the koran states that christians and jews are sons of apes and pigs"
I very much doubt it. Again it is a matter for your research. It is a great sin for me to speak of matters I have no knowledge of. Got a reference? Speak to a scholar of Islam or leave a question on an Islamic website.
Posted by: maryam at November 26, 2006 07:28 PM

If you are seeking the truth on a subject, know that knowledge is passed from heart to heart; person to person. Talk with a learned and pious muslim.
Posted by: maryam at November 26, 2006 08:15 PM

Maryam, I'm not understanding at all what you expect to gain by posting here. You don't know enough about your own faith to defend it. It seems to me that many of the people here are more familiar with Islamic writings and history than you are.

Since you keep telling those here talk to an Islamic scholar/imam, I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you ask your iman to come here and respond to various charges with the truth about Islam? In fact, you could ask him to challenge Robert Spenser to a debate.

Good post, Levi. You speak wisdom.

Oh, the sad irony of it all.

Maryam wrote: "I thought assuming He cares for us He will have sent some instructions. I thought those instructions will be comprehensive... So I looked at Islam. It is true. The Qur'an is it, the direct Words of our Creator."

But she later writes: "It is a very serious matter to interpret the Qur'an and one I have avoided."

Who in the world discovers divine instructions, but then does not read them? But instead relies on devil's mouthpieces to interpret the devil's instructions and fails to recognize grotesque lies when they are spoken.

This can only be explained by satanically induced blindness. Such is the entire Islamic community.

"But she later writes: "It is a very serious matter to interpret the Qur'an and one I have avoided." "

Sorry that meant I have avoided interpreting the Qur'an ON THIS WEBSITE. I actually know that verse (2.169) by heart in Arabic and we studied it in class, but if I explained what I know and anyone here was mislead as a result, I would be accountable to Allah on the Day of Judgement. It is too much of a risk for me; seek out the good view of Islam for yourselves. There is one.

"I'm not understanding at all what you expect to gain by posting here."

I am actually not trying to defend my faith. I am trying to get you to think. If all the horrible and warped things you think about it were true why would anyone be in it? If Islam made women unhappy they would leave it. You seem to have written off every muslim in the world as deluded, insane, brainwashed, evil, or any number of dehumanising names. You revel in the smug self-righteousness of being the only ones able to discern right and wrong but it just isn't good enough to think that way. It's lazy, unscientific thinking. There are many many thousands of BRIGHT, STABLE, HIGHLY PRINCIPLED AND EDUCATED Westerners who have chosen Islam for its truth, beauty and goodness, and if just one can be found then your "mad muslim" theory is disproved.
I have tried to introduce the idea to you that what you all believe about Islam and muslims is LUDICROUS. Try writing it down in a non-emotional way and see what I mean. eg; "A billion people think that the best way to spread their way of life throughout the world is to kill themselves, taking a few others with them."
The other thing I have been trying to point out is that you ought to distrust the media and make impartial effort to find this good that I and millions of others assert is in Islam, and assess it for yourselves.

So, DOES this article about suicide bombers have any authentication to distinguish it from a complete or partial fabrication?

"If Islam made women unhappy they would leave it."

--not if those same women feared for their eternal souls they wouldn't.

Maryam I told you aobut my experiences and yankee told you about his meeting one in the FLESH I think you are just playing mind games at this point. That is dishonest of you. Educated? I dont think you are educated just edoctrinated.

here is yet another jihadist story. The mother is proud of her son going to give his life for allah. Please spare us the propaganda talk--Im sure youll think this was a video set up by those 'evil' jews. But this is from palastinian tv. Plus I have my exmuslim friend's experience on here AND yankee had his story. The jihadest killing never ends. It is the will of Allah according to Muhammed --its not a secret any more..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egwz25fW0Co&mode=related&search=

"It would appear that in addition to being lost and adrift at sea, poor Maryam is a self-hating, left-wing moonbat as well. She hates the West and blames it for all the world's problems."

I bet if you surveyed all Western reverts to Islam, 99% would fit that category.

maryam writes:

b)suicide is not "slain in Allah's way"

Folks, it's just semantics. It's not "suicide" we should be worried about, and which has been causing mass-murders and mayhem around the globe for decades; rather, it is being "slain in Allah's way" that we should be worried about, and which has been causing mass-murders and mayhem around the globe for decades.

Maryam thinks she can put us off by pivoting around the word "suicide", as though the glorious valor of being "slain in Allah's way" in Islamic culture is not something to worry about, not something that should horrify us. Man, she must think we are idiots.

Maryam,

I guess they didn't teach you 5.059-060 in class? Maybe they don't think you are committed enought to trust you with the "deeper truths" yet. Here's an experiment. You to your Imam in private, and tell him you are unsatisfied just living your life well, and want to do something great for Allah that will help you gain paradise. Then call the cops and tell them what he said. You live in Britain? Tell me you don't know a few "radicals" that should worry us.

There are many many thousands of BRIGHT, STABLE, HIGHLY PRINCIPLED AND EDUCATED Westerners who have chosen Islam for its truth, beauty and goodness...

I don't know that to be true or false, but I do know that

"There are many many thousands of INTELLECTUALLY DULL, UNSTABLE, HIGHLY SPOILED AND/OR GULLIBLE Westerners who have chosen Islam because they hate capitalism and their government, believed all the media BS, or are embarrassed that they can't live without hated daddy's money, or couldn't get enough attention any other way, need to have some "gnostic" secret knowledge, couldn't find a more thorough way to disgust their grandparents, enjoyed making people uncomfortable by having pet snakes, or are jusst so fatally superficial they get lost in something before they know enough about it to make a decision, they think the best of everybody claiming victimhood, etc."

I have tried to introduce the idea to you that what you all believe about Islam and muslims is LUDICROUS.

YOU are ludicrous. You haven't substantiated one point theologically. You stand refuted by your own silence in the face of your jihadi brethren of whom you are afraid to approach directly.

Behold, you are with child,
and you shall bear a son;
and you shall call his name Ishmael,
because the LORD has given heed to your affliction.
And he will be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand will be against everyone,
and everyone's hand will be against him;
And he will live to the east of all his brothers.
--Genesis 16:11,12

Maryam, you and your one billion brethren are a spiritual descendents of Ishmael whereas many of us are spiritual descendents of Abramham's second child, the covenant child, Issac. Our two families will be in mortal conflict until the end of time.

Each person must choose a path to follow that seems best to their own eternal good. May the Lion of Judah have mercy upon us all in these decisions. For the God with whom we have to do is He who requires blood (Psalm 9:12), and it will be either our blood or Christ's blood. He who has an ear, let him hear.

ReformedPresbyterian,

A minor point, one which will be lost on Maryam, is that Islamic scholars often (though not with unanimity) interpret the Qur'anic narrative (37:99ff) such that Ishmael was the child of promise.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/sacrifice.htm

That is, she probably is not insulted by your assignation to being "spiritual descendents of Ishmael".

She also has likely been taught that the Taurat reading you quote is tahrif (corrupted, an apologic invention promulgated by Ibn Hazm, 994-1064AD), though they have no manuscript evidence to support this contention, and their Qur'an and Sahih Hadith support its use.

ReformedPresbyterian

I hear you --Im an orthodox christian --and I consider you a brother in Christ.

I hear you. romans 3:23-25

now maryam here this:

from:
http://www.kafirnation.com/myth2.htm

The Jews and Christians were considered evil people because they rejected mohamed as a prophet of god as they knew of the true God and it was rather obvious that he wasn't a prophet sent from Him.

Jesus is the perfect example of love and tolerance

John 8:7. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Muhammed was the perfect opposite:

"The Prophet (Muhammad) said: 'Do not stone the adulteress who is pregnant until she has had her child.' After the birth she was put into a ditch up to her chest and the Prophet commanded them to stone her. Khalid came forward with a stone, which he threw at her head, and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and he cursed her. The gentle Prophet prayed over her and she was buried."
(Hadith No. Muslim 682)

One would think that in common parlance that to respect someone as a prophet would seek guidance in his teaching.

---
Therefore muslims who want to follow Muhammed MUST stone the adultress and kill the in the name of jihad for Allah (as good muslims do).

JESUS SHOWED MERCY
MUHAMMED SHOWED HATE

Muhammed was a prophet of hate, his message a message of darkness, his god a god of old arabia, his legacy: destined to disappear. For hate is darkness but Gods light overcometh the darkness.

The REAL God --THE GOD OF ISRAEL which you despised and who WILL JUDGE you for following after false prophets and the false god allah.

The God of Israel IS GREATER

"The other thing I have been trying to point out is that you ought to distrust the media and make impartial effort to find this good that I and millions of others assert is in Islam, and assess it for yourselves."

Posted by: maryam at November 27, 2006 08:25 PM

Not many people on this site fully trust the media to give a full and complete account of Islamic issues. However, all the evidence suggests that the misrepresentation is in the direction such as to hide the horrors of Islam, not the reverse.
Let us just examine the evidence concerning Muslims raping women (and children). I know that this is only one aspect of the horror, but it has particular significance where I live.
The meida covers up these offences, not over publicises them. There is also evidence that this is happening all over Europe - both the rapes and the media cover up. So, to say that peole are relying on the media is not true. The media gloss the truth of Islam, not tell the full truth. Maryam, you have this totally the wrong way round.

Concerned Citizen and Allies,

I have been thoroughly impressed with both of your and others posts that evidence both study and personal experience and insight into Islam doctrine. My own sincere study of Islam was quite short, once it became crystal clear that it was a satanic invention. Kudos to those of you including Robert who have the tenacity to continue studying the irrational Quran and Hadiths in order to expertly refute it. The Lord has given you graces and gifts in that area.

CC, I don't know your religous convictions, so bear with me here if I have assumed wrongly. My intention was not to insult Maryam by acknowledging her descendancy from Ishmael. It's an inarguable truth. My intention was to demonstrate that there is a deeper level of conflict, spiritual conflict, in this all. You understand that unless the Holy Spirit changes her heart of stone that no degree of expert argumentation, harsh berating, or witty insults (and some of them *are* pretty darn witty) will change her or any other Muslim's captive allegience to the devil.

I'm sure Maryam has been taught that the Bible has been corrupted. Big deal. We know through the Spirit bearing witness with our spirit (Ro 8:16) that it is true. So, we keep refuting their lies with the Truth that is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword. God is honored in that.

I personally think that we shouldn't get caught up with trying to "win every point" with Muslims because we are dealing with people with darkened hearts and minds that are incapable of receiving truth, be it based in Scripture or civil matters or just pure logical thinking. How many JW threads evidence fruitless rebuttal after rebuttal to Muslims with no avail? Instead as Christians perhaps we should be laying groundwork and testimonies that point to the superiority of Christ and His benefits and expose the inherent deficiencies and despair of Islam to those ensnared by it (of course, realizing that our arguments are futile unless the Spirit works).

Keep fighting the good fight, brothers. We too will give an accounting of our deeds on that last day (including these very JW posts, I believe). So let's write things that we will not be ashamed to present before the Lord of Hosts.

With best regards,

Maryam

There are many many thousands of BRIGHT, STABLE, HIGHLY PRINCIPLED AND EDUCATED Westerners who have chosen Islam for its truth, beauty and goodness,

They have chosen Islam solely to satiate their lust for power, sex, and money.

I cannot see you as being BRIGHT, STABLE, HIGHLY PRINCIPLED AND EDUCATED,so what is your motive for being a moslem

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014203.php#comments

ReformedPresbyterian because of the things you see I I think "God is at work in you both to will and to work according to His good will" (Phil 2:13). When we will give an accounting to Him we will not be ashamed! But we will STAND!

Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

if you would like to email me sometimes please do so
at gkufcfight@lycos.com. And that goes for all you lovers of truth.

Maryam,

No, my christian upbringing allows me to keep my distance from difficult situations, it is only Islam that insists I am good to my parents.

What's the point of joining a religion if YOU'RE NOT GOING TO READ THE BOOKS?! Aside from not reading the Qur'an you've failed to read the Bible.

I must assume you prefer to be led around than think for yourself. It's unfortunate to waste a lifetime in an effort to find the best deceiver, but you apparently did.