If I get a chance, I will drop by this talk and ask Ms. Armstrong why it is that there are so many Muslims who apparently misunderstand Islam, and think that it enjoins them to commit acts of violence. How is it that so many Muslims don't seem to be acquainted with the peaceful religion and its Gandhiesque prophet, about which she has written so much?
A Mosaic Foundation press release, with thanks to Twostellas:
WHO: Karen Armstrong, prolific author, speaker, teacher and media commentator on religious affairs in the U.S. and England, will launch the Mosaic Foundation's new lecture series "Re- Discovering the Arab World." Her lecture is entitled "Islam: The Misunderstood Religion."WHAT: Mosaic Foundation's "Re-Discovering the Arab World." This program is designed to foster deeper understanding of the Arab world through a closer examination of the rich diversity of Arab culture, traditions, arts and history amidst the background of current public interest.
WHEN: Monday, Nov. 20
-- Reception: noon – 12:30 p.m.
-- Program: 12:30–2 p.m.
WHERE: National Press Club, 529 14th St. NW, 13th Floor (Ballroom), Washington, D.C.
Yes, it is indeed strange that so many Muslims misunderstand their own religion.
But what is even more strange, is that they all misunderstand it in the same way.
This book contains all the usual gangster fare such as murder , extreme violence , intimidation ,
extortion , protection rackets , lies , deception , sex and .....oh dear !
What ?........i thought i had a Koran review page opened.
I truly hope you do manage to make it to this 'talk' and would love to hear her response to your questions. What does she hope to gain by this abject display of dhimmitude?
Mosaic Foundation's "Re-Discovering the Arab World." This program is designed to foster deeper understanding of the Arab world through a closer examination of the rich diversity of Arab culture, traditions, arts and history amidst the background of current public interest.
Prolefeed (n, Newspeak); The rubbishy entertainment and spurious news which the Party handed out to the masses.
Just finished re-reading 1984 and highly recommend the book.
Karen should be sent on a fact finding mission, say to Saudi Arabia, maybe she can oonvince those police not to be so mean, and if she can go over to Iran, and find out why the little monkey man from Iran is so darn mean. If she could convince those hardliners and come back with her head, she might have a leg to stand on. Tell Karen her job is not to convince the West, but to convince the muslim terrorist that they are reading the koran all wrong.
ZWP,
Karen is a misgiuded individual, whom lost her way and now claims to have no belief in GOD. She was a nun. Now just a prolific author, of religious affairs... One wonders what her real goal is?
OT, I still think her book on "The History of GOD"
is a good reference book, but I now understand that she is a Muslim apologist.
Nuf said,
KnightHawk
Ibn Khaldūn (May 27, 1332/732AH to March 19, 1406/808AH) was a famous historiographer and historian born in present-day Tunisia, and is sometimes viewed as one of the forerunners of modern historiography, sociology and economics.
The following quote by Khaldun expresses his views of the tribal life of Arabs:
Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense. So when they encounter any difficulty or obstacle, they leave it alone and look for easier prey. And tribes well-fortified against them on the slopes of the hills escape their corruption and destruction, because they prefer not to climb hills, nor expend effort, nor take risks.
Ibn Khaldūn,s analysis of the reality of Arab society and its evolution, sources of conflict and social complexion, is as relevant today as it was six centuries ago – as if that society has never changed, and has failed to progress. If Ibn Khaldoun woke from his grave today, he would look with anguish and sadness at the Arab world of today, and would see that little has changed.
The consequences of the collapse of centralised power and the political rationale that underpins that power, is vividly recounted by Ibn Khaldoun: “When the caliphate disappeared and was wiped out, governmental power passed altogether out of [Arab] hands, with non-Arabs taking over power in their stead.
They remained as Bedouins in the desert, ignorant of royal authority and political leadership. They then, achieved superiority over weak dynasties, but their domination led only to the ruin and destruction of the civilizations they conquered.”
We have in Syria occupying Lebanon and Iraq occupying Kuwait, some revealing modern examples of what Ibn Khaldoun said centuries ago.
Look at the picture he drew for us of Baghdad, as if he was carrying a video camera to send us a live report from Iraq: “Allegiance was sworn to Ibrahim Ibn Al-Mahdi. Trouble broke out in Baghdad. The troublesome elements within the underworld and the soldiery were given a free hand against the decent citizens. They robbed the people and filled their pockets with loot, which they sold openly in the markets. The inhabitants turned for protection to the authorities, but these did not help them.”
Isn’t this what happened in Iraq the morning of the 9 April 2003 of, when looting and stealing broke out in Baghdad and elsewhere, and which is still happening to this day, as the people of Iraq turn to their Arab neighbours for protection, only to find the borders closed to them, while the people of those countries have arrived in Iraq as thieves, criminals and looters under the pretence of the ‘resistance’? To them, ‘resistance’ meant demolishing mosques, kidnapping women, killing innocent people, booby-trapping cars and killing members of the army and the police force.
Arab countries forbade the works of Ibn Khaldun in their schools, as they did the works of Marx, Darwin, and Freud, as too likely to incite discord.
The Arab culture has not advanced since Mohammed went on a spree of wanton destrution,looting murder and rape
WHO: Karen Armstrong, prolific author OF DISTORTIONS, speaker, teacher, TELLER OF LIES, OBSESSED WITH BEING MO'S NEWEST WIFE and media SHILL on MUSLIM BALONEY in the U.S. and England, will launch the Mosaic Foundation's new PC series "Re- Discovering the Arab World." Her lecture is entitled "Islam: THE CULT OF DEATH AND HOW IT REALLY IS DANDY"
There, that's more like it.
Some old timers out there might remember that Eric Burdon and the Animals song:
It's just a faith whose intentions are good.
Oh, Lord, why's it always been misunderstood?...
In reality:
It's just a faith who's intentions are bad.
Oh, Lord, that's because it calls for a jihad...
I know of a certain poster who really should attend this little Mo lovefest. Then said poster can come back here and enlighten us fools with the undying wisdom of Ms Armstrong. Monday should be quite interesting at this site as a result.
Re: Mosaic Foundation
I have been giving a lot of thought to this concept of multiculturalism and its premise of visual and other diversities and I think that they are really a cover for a neo-Western supremacism. All other cultures don't believe they are equal to the rest. All cultures (Islam, Chinese, Western) really believe they are superior to others.
Non-Western cultures don't believe in multiculturalism. This is especially true with Islamic culture. If Muslim countries believed in multiculturalism then Christianity and Hinduism and other religions would be practiced equally in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries. They are not practiced equally and are openly considered inferior in Muslim countries.
The cultural supremacism of the West implied by the dogmas of Karen Armstrong and others also implies the inferiority cultures that are not multicultural and means that Saudi Arabia (e.g.)must have an inferior culture. But in practice, Saudi Arabians and other Arabs think the ideas of people like Karen Armstrong are inferior because they (Saudi Arabia, e.g.) clearly and unhypocritically practice cultural supremacism. Karen Armstrong practices a stealth supremacism. Here, I have to side with the Muslims. She's a Western supremacist gasbag.
I have also come to the conclusion that part of the reaction against Robert (and Hugh) is that they are rejecting the Western supremacist concept of multiculturalism. They side with the Muslims on this and don't believe that all cultures are equal and are not afraid to critically analyse the Western supremacist concept of multiculturalism or Islamic concepts of supremacism.
Karen Amstrong is a seriously misguided scholar.
It appears to me that people such as Karen Armstrong are stealth supremacists. Other cultures don't believe in this mosaic crap. They openly assert cultural supremacism. They know what culture is about. So does Robert and Hugh and a lot of the folks (Muslim and non-Muslim) that post on Jihadwatch.
Scaramouoche, I guess I'm showing my age when I say that I remember that song. Nice play on the wordings... and quite apt. I do hope Robert can make it to Karen's talk and challenge her nonsense.
lol Karen Armstrong is a naive moron.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the jihad coin, there is good news.
http://www.glennbeck.com/
Misunderstood "religion". Sure. Just like Charlie Manson and his "family". What a crock.
Karen Armstrong should be forced to live in a muslim country and after about six months, she'd be writing a new book calling for islam to be banned. It's so easy for a muslim woman in a free country to say they have it good...if her husband beats her, she can have him arrested. She doesn't fear the police here. If her husband took another wife, she could have him in court and divorced and still get alimony and child support. She doesn't HAVE to wear a burka or hijab in a free country. She can come and go as she pleases or even drive. Muslim women in America have it MADE. I dare them to go to the middle east and try to live as they do here. They wouldn't like it.
"I will drop by this talk and ask Ms. Armstrong why it is that there are so many Muslims who apparently misunderstand Islam, and think that it enjoins them to commit acts of violence."
Unfortunately, the PC Multiculturalist template is an amazingly resilient cerebral machine: it is capable of receiving a mountain of data that would lead an ordinarily open mind to at least contemplate a new interpretation, and process it in order to maintain the same obstinate paradigm. Thus, Spencer could back up his question to Ms. Armstrong with a list of 1,001 concrete facts, and Ms. Armstrong's brain would efficiently process those facts as indicative of the economic and geopolitical circumstances of the 20th and 21st centuries under which Muslims have been the victims of the disorienting and disordering effects of Colonialist, then post-Colonialist, Western policies -- and nothing to do with Islam per se.
AIG, that's exactly right about the rapes. Since islam sanctions muslim males sexcapades, in muslim countries it's to be expected with no recourse. (4 muslim male witnesses..phfft!) She KNOWS she will have justice in America. And she knows she won't be stoned for being a victim.
The word "Islam" is an Arabic word which means "submission to the will of God". This word comes from the same root as the Arabic word "salam", which means "peace". As such, the religion of Islam teaches that in order to achieve true peace of mind and surety of heart, one must submit to God and live according to His Divinely revealed Law. The most important truth that God revealed to mankind is that there is nothing divine or worthy of being worshipped except for Almighty God, thus all human beings should submit to Him. The word "Muslim" means one who submits to the will of God, regardless of their race, nationality or ethnic background. Being a Muslim entails willful submission and active obedience to God, and living in accordance with His message. Some people mistakenly believe that Islam is just a religion for Arabs, but nothing could be further from the truth. Not only are there converts to Islam in every corner of the world, especially in England and America, but by taking a look at the Muslim World from Bosnia to Nigeria, and from Indonesia to Morocco, one can clearly see that Muslims come from many various races, ethnic groups and nationalities. It is also interesting to note that in actuality, more than 80% of all Muslims are not Arabs - there are more Muslims in Indonesia than in the whole Arab World! So though even though it is true that most Arabs are Muslims, the large majority of Muslims are not Arabs. However, anyone who submits completely to God and worships Him alone is a Muslim.
This word comes from the same root as the Arabic word "salam", which means "peace"
Really? I thought it came from the Italian word "salami", as in "I'd like a piece of salami".
Or, "The Muslims will cut up the infidels like pieces of salami".
If muslims are submiting completely to God (well Allah anyway) how come they are killing innocent nonbelievers everywhere, constantly?
www.mychristianblood.org
Does not belief in God make you care MORE about others not less? Or perhaps it depends on the kind of god you believe in???
Frank,
"the Western supremacist concept of multiculturalism"
This particular supremacism you cite is unique among cultural supremacisms in history: it is the only supremacism framed in terms of cultural suicide, rather than cultural hegemony.
Or, to be more precise, it is framed in terms of an incoherent paradox between
1) a cultural hegemony (let us remake the world according to our unrealistic vision of a rainbow of equal cultures)
and
2) a cultural suicide (in order to facilitate #1, we must dismantle our own evil Western culture values and hegemony).
Thus, what is going on here, beyond the paradox, is the modern Gnostic enterprise of dismantling the West and replacing it with a utopian new world order. This Gnostic enterprise is believed in, and pursued, by both polar extremes of the Left/Right spectrum; however, in our era, the Leftist flavor is decidedly more influential and dangerous -- either recklessly ignorant of the menace of Islamic neo-imperialism, or positively in collusion with it in order hasten the demise of the evil West, or expressive of some incoherent mush somewhere between.
like Hades the god of war...
The characterization of Arabs by Ibn Khaldūn quoted above seems to fly in the face of the history of early Arab Muslim conquests:
"Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption. They pillage everything that they can take without fighting or taking risks, then flee to their refuge in the wilderness, and do not stand and do battle unless in self-defense."
From what I have read, the Arab Muslims who swept across Asia Minor and North Africa and into the Iberian peninsula at such an amazing rate of imperialistic velocity and voracity in the 7th and 8th centuries did so in large part because of a rather unusual military style whereby they would rush into battle suicidally, due mainly to their religious fanaticism -- which would seem to flatly contradict Ibn Khaldūn's characterization of them.
Robert, go and find out by whom she claims that Islam is misunderstood. Does she thinks they misunderstood it; or her or us?
If she thinks we misunderstand Islam, then she ought to explain and you ought to put her right on behalf of us all.
Ramon said:
"The word "Muslim" means one who submits to the will of God, regardless of their race, nationality or ethnic background."
But in reality it is someone who submits to the will of the Imam or Mullah, especially in the case of illiterate Muslims who speak prayers and verses from the Koran that they in a language that they do not even understand.
Islam also teaches that ALL will spend time in the torments of Hell, EXCEPT for "martyrs," who will go straight to paradise, AND ON TOP OF THAT will have an eternity of the best sex possible with 72 eternally young, eterally nubile girls AND boys (if one prefers).
So, what Islam really boils down to is doing all sorts of stuff (or NOT doing stuff that they say you shouldn't do) in order to make your time in hell as short as possible, OR if you can't wait for an eternity of sex, become a "martyr" and learn how to make explosive vests.
And while Ramons god was insisting that Mankind subjugate itself, the real God designed a test to see whether or not Abraham was a dufus who would obey Him unquestioningly. Abraham failed. God did this because he wanted a diologue with His creation. He certainly hoped that he hadn't created a lot of robots - not that I'm speaking for him, of course :).
The trouble is Islam just seemed to come from nowhere. It was made known through one man, right? How do you know he just didn't make it up? Like the Moonies, or something. It's easy to do. You claim that God's been speaking to you, and you tell over folks that they better believe you or else they are going to Hell. Even better, you tell them that they better believe you or else you are going to kill them. It's a great way to get everything you want.
Jesus, on the other hand, didn't conquer land, or diddle a little girl, or pleasure himself in any way. He never gained from his teachings. He lived in poverty, and in fact, he got nailed to a tree for his troubles. Muhammod killed, and Jesus loved. Islam isn't peaceful, is it? It does mean enslave yourself, or we'll do it for you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the origins of Christianity are more reliable, aren't they? Jesus is a Jewish man drawing on Jewish tradition. His revelations are presented to his followers for their digestion. Jesus "debates" with the establishment, there are witnesses to miraculous works. It's all created within the advanced Roman world and in the precincts of established Judaism. As far as I can tell, Muhammod dragged his raggle taggle ass in from the desert saying, well you heard of God right, yes, the one with Noah (here is the story) well he told me that I was a prophet, and if you don't believe me, you're going to die.
The most important truth that God revealed to mankind is that there is nothing divine or worthy of being worshipped except for Almighty God, thus all human beings should submit to Him. "-
What the heck is all this troll Ramon. I thought you were intellegent person not a chimp to figure that. Why should God be requesting submission and at the same time give us free will. You are a thinking person. So for f..k-sake start thinking - or does it hurt.
If GOD wanted us to be submissive cabbages we would have been one. You are submitting to those fu..ing Mullahs not to GOD. Stop preaching non-sense here. Be creative and think like the rest of humanity is doing. GOD can take care itself -- IT doesn't need f..ing Islamic advisors. You ought to be taking care of yourself not whatever you call GOD.
As a matter of fact as soon as you think you imagined GOD, you are wrong.
MusHuntCowboy oh Mzz Armstrong knows exactly what Islam is about she has read the Quran I am sure but she hates you free loving God believing types in America soooo much she by gwarsh golly gee wiz doesnt care!
Either that or she really hasnt read the Quran/hadiths. In which case I hear her personal anthem coming on now ..."bring in the clowns"...
Drop her off in saudi arabia make her be the burqua bundled slave of some leering sheikh and we will see how she thins about ISLAM. Why the HELL aren't western feminists up in arms against a religion that tells them they are 'toys for men' and only 1/2 thier value?
I urge you to study up on the true teachings of Islam, and not let your opinion be affected by personal bias and un-Islamic cultural practices. The religion of Islam is pure in its beliefs and brilliant in its understanding of human nature. It offers the path to success in this world and the next.
Please feel free to contact me any time, with any question you have.
Please peruse Islamic site for more information about Islam and specifically check out the links below. Thank you and please stay in touch. Salaam
http://www.al-sunnah.com/understanding_islam.htm
Get The Holy Quran. It is absolutely FREE
http://www.freequran.org/
Usful links
www.islamonline.net
http://www.muslimheritage.com/Default.aspx
http://www.studying-islam.org/index.aspx
americaningermany-
Too much fire and brimstone from GIA I guess. Oh well, hope he makes it back under a new name. Certain people need a good verbal beating.
Ramon That may work for Tony Blair and George Bush, but you're dealing with dedicated JihadWatchers on this site.
The Muslim Student Association put up this explanation to get past your 'misunderstanding':
Misconception 1
Islam is `the religion of peace' because:
the Arabic word Islam is derived from the Arabic word "Al-Salaam" which means peace.
It might seem strange to think of this as a misconception, but in fact it is. The root word of Islam is "al-silm" which means "submission" or "surrender." It is understood to mean "submission to Allah." In spite of whatever noble intention has caused many a Muslim to claim that Islam is derived primarily from peace, this is not true.
So give me a break Ramon... you're wasting our time with your half-assed attempts to confuse us.
to learn what real Muslims say about 'al-Islam' go to the link below.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html#HEADING1
Posted by: americaningermany at November 17, 2006 12:58 PM
Hard to tell if GIA was banned. I've seen posts deleted or edited at times so I'm not sure how this deal works. Maybe a lot of his posts were zapped and he gave up. A certain other guy's posts need zapping, that's for sure.
ramon
are you as dumb as you seem If muslims are submiting completely to God (well Allah anyway) how come they are killing innocent nonbelievers everywhere, constantly?
www.mychristianblood.org
try looking at http://www.victimsofjihad.com/index.php
9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.9:14 Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers.# A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24
# Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90
# "Whosoever hath done evil and his sin surroundeth him; such are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:81
# If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
# Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96
# For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104
# For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114
# "And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:1192:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.
now i found all this in 3 minets of serching the sceptics quran ramon you an ms armstong claim islam is a religion of peace lol tell me a nother joke please so i can stop laughing there are tons of history out there that tell of the mad savagery
of muleim hell in india they would be still killing hindus and would be stealing hindu temples and palaces like the taj mahal the way they were do ing befor the british came
muslims as a group seem to have this delusion that they have the right to overrun lands steal the weath as booty force the inhabidents to convert or die heck even when they cant do that they will steal anything that not guarded or tied down just look what happened when the west bank setalments were evaquated thats exactly what happened
In a recent column at the Guardian - one that Robert ended up thoroughly deoconstructing here, Ms Armstrong offered the astonishing assertion that the Muslim conquests of Byzantium and Persia in the 7th century were "political."
This is just one more of many, many examples of her obfuscating bias. There was NOTHING political about the Arab invasion of Byzantium and Persia. The Muslims had called these kingdoms to Islam as is required in the Islamic ethos....and after the requisite wait, attacked.
Karen Armstrong is so passionate and persistent in her promotion of Islam that she transcends the usual monikers of 'apologist' and 'dhimmi.' She is nothing short of a traitor to the very civilization that empowered her by giving her voice.
Ramon is full of bovine fecal matter. He did not refer to Allah once in his propaganda piece, prefering to use the misleading title 'God'. Under most instances God is God, but not when you lie and call him Allah. 'There is no illah but Allah' is one of the biggest and most devestating lies ever told.
The second biggest lie was that Mohammad was 'God's messenger, apostle and Prophet. With these two lies, Mohammad continues to fool the incredulous, like Ramon and Karen, to this very day...
A memo to Ms. Armstrong:
Islam is NOT misunderstood except possibly by folks who believe the propaganda line that "Islam is a religion of peace." (Such gullible, naive folks who have boutht he party line that islam is peace have, unbeknownst to them, labeled 'infidels' or 'unbelievers' by Muslims, often find their bodies hacked or blown to pieces by enthusiastic practitioners of this same, alleged 'religion of peace').
What IS certainly misunderstood, however, is Islam's capacity for slaughtering human beings en masse--it exceeds the limits of human imagination to fathom. Not many people seem to grasp that. I wonder why...
So please, think of all the innocent human beings who have been enslaved, maimed, murdered, tortured and otherwise mutilated by those 'believers' (or 'understanders'??) who have carried out Islam's doctrine of institutionalized murder over the centuries.
You, yes, YOU are getting people killed across the globe by refusing to tell the truth about this so-called 'religion." There are people who actually believe you!!
The next time you feel compelled to tell the world about how "misunderstood" Islam is, remember what you haven't told us-- who exactly Islam is 'misunderstood' by. Maybe it's 'misunderstood' by Muslim jihadists who murder unbelievers in accordance with the Kuran's orders to kill them, or maybe it's 'misunderstood' by imams that use proxies to slaughter untold millions of 'unbelievers,' or maybe it is 'misunderstood' by people in the Indian subcontinent and Africa who are running for cover as the terrorists lob bombs at them).
And, please, the next time you get the urge to tell the world "Islam is peace" and how
mysteriously "misunderstood" it is, we recommend that you SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ramon is a Communist. He needs to go back to his Islamo-Communist Playstation.
Karen is a Muslim apologist and her goal is to create more like her: An army of apologist. Ever notice how even the "moderate muslim" of our time creates a web for you to get stuck on, it's more of a pause place of the mind to divert you from close examination of what Islam is really about. If they can stop you long enough for debate then they have stopped you. If they can turn you into more of a spectator than a participant, they have stalled you by their own confusion and confusion is the master key within the koran. Thats why I don't fall for "moderate or reform" because it's another tool used on the front line to trip up the infidel. Islam's god takes on many forms and disguises: The wig of peace, the cloak of religion, the smile of trust, and the prop of western education. But none of these hides the eyes which are the window to the soul. Their eyes are lifeless and cold. Like those of a snake waiting in the tall grass to strike you. The motto here is NEVER PUT STOCK IN WHAT THEY SAY BUT INSTEAD KEEP YOUR EYE ON WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE IF THEY SAY IT'S ONE THING, THE TRUTH WILL BE FOUND IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION
Here are some other good sites:
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/index.htm
http://www.co-jet.org/
http://www.islamundressed.com/
I’m not surprised by her passionate promotions. Some women in America write love letters to convicted murderers on death row, others want to marry them.[?]
Profile me, Uncle Sam or other western governments. I have have nothing to hide. My blood is mostly Scotch, and you know how bloody the Scots are. I am a deeply religious mennonite, and you know that means I'm a "fundamentalist" (in some people's eyes). If there are any doubts, check me out, make sure I'm clean. I, for one, will feel safer. While you're at it, do everyone else you regard as suspicious. My children travel with me, and many other innocent people. My "privacy" and Ms Pelosi's delicate concerns about being politically correct, are not as important as their safety.
I pledge never to complain about checks and detainments I may be subjected to at airports, train stations and so on in order to examine my background, race, associates, or activities, or which are motivated by such considerations, as long as that information is handled by professionals whose job is to protect the innocent from violence and due regard is paid to my privacy on personal and non-criminal information that is unearthed.
I fully expect, and demand, that my right to such privacy is forfeit if I am found guilty of serious criminal offenses or engaged in suspicious activity that could endanger the innocents of our society.
I understand and expect that the length of my detainment for such purposes should be proportionate to the degree of suspicion raised by information uncovered and inversely proportional to my level of cooperation in this investigation, and I pledge to be as cooperative and helpful to the authorities in such situations as I know how.
Further, I expect such investigations to be initiated by any sign that I might present such a threat, regardless of whether this sign is because of my race, religion, speech, dress, or demeanor.
...
Well, it's perhaps not well thought out, but I'm thinking we need a petition that we can sign, or maybe cards that we can sign and keep in our wallets that state more exactly that we understand that national security trumps privacy and political correctness, and that we are just as prepared to be on the receiving end of security checks as anyone else. I'm in. Free up the authorities to do what they must.
The innocent have nothing to hide.
Gee, I wonder if people will be breaking down the doors to get in to see her? Sure would be funny if she speaks to a bunch of empty chairs. But then again, if a bunch of Islamaniacs and their lapdogs do show up the intelligence level would be the same.
No, Karen Armstrong is not naive. She does have an agenda, clearly seen by the unobjective way she dismisses ALL negative elements in Islam, elements that even Muslims admit to.
She is simply a prototype of the Second Beast. The kind who "looks like a lamb" but "speak like a dragon".
The Coming of Isa the Messiah.
Crazy Karen is poaching on Robert Spencer's territory. The good ol' US of A. I hope Robert or someone as good as him attends and asks the questions that must be asked.
Is this crazy Karen's book promo tour? Her Muhammad book is in the basement at at 5000 or so rank while Roberts Mo' book is in the top 100 sellers
yaqub-
I checked out your link. Interesting how Islam goes for a veneer of legitimacy by stealing Jesus
for itself. Then, like everything else it touches, perverts even Him. What a bunch of utter nonsense. Might as well say Mo will return from hell and abolish Islam (it would be the only time he did something good for humanity if he did). The more I read about the cult of death the more mind numbing it becomes. That must be the key to gaining followers.
Archimedes2: "My blood is mostly Scotch..." Cool, but dont drive in that condition...just kidding...
I dont mind capitulating to 'National security, providing that it really is 'national security' and not just another step in instituting a police state...The greatest freedom is to be 'left alone', we should not give that up lightly...
PRESS RELEASE
Alliance of Civilizations - THE REPORT
November 13, 2006
Politics, not religion, at the heart of growing Muslim-West divide, report argues
"To advance the Alliance of Civilizations, the UN Secretary-General established a High-level Group of eminent personalities and tasked this Group with generating a report containing an analysis of the rise in cross-cultural polarization and extremism and a set of practical recommendations to counter this phenomenon. The High-level Group met five times from November 2005 to November 2006, at the conclusion of which it produced a report which takes a multi-polar approach within which it prioritizes relations between Muslim and Western societies. [...]"
High-level Group of eminent personalities includes none other than John Esposito and Karen Armstrong.
At the Alliance of Civilizations website are video statements from the group.
Watch Karen Armstrong telling the world how bad and wrong Pope Benedict
was.
http://www.unaoc.org/repository/HLG_statements.htm
OT,
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006387.htm
Here’s a tip for the cry baby. When the Police in America tell you to get up, get up.
Karen Armstrong, with a long-standing position as apologist for Islam, can disguise but not hide certain inconvenient truths about or inconsistencies within Islam.
For instance, she can attempt to portray Mohammed as a man who brought peace to the Arabian peninsula. This is true: as effectively the last man standing in a brutal civil war, Mohammed brought peace to the Arabian peninsula. She can go further and claim that early Moslem conquests were not motivated by religion. In one narrow frame of reference, she is correct again. Moslems were not allowed to rob, rape and murder other Moslems, members of the Ummah. Non-Moslems were fair game, however. Hence, early Islam was not spread by the desire to spread the faith per se, but by the exigency of keeping the early Arab economy of robbery, rape and murder in good order. Islam is well suited to such an economy.
An earlier poster attempted to explain the connection between the root of the word "Islam" and that of "Salaam." I cannot comment on this specifically, but need to accept his words at face value since I do not speak Arabic (which I was surprised to discover also makes it impossible for one to truly understand translations of the Qur'an even by the most scrupulous of translators. Oh my). I can say, however, that the Moslem connection between "submission" and "peace" is a telling one, one that Ms. Armstrong even had a go at.
What's striking in this from my viewpoint is that there is a not-so-subtle coercive tinge to it all. Western religion and philosophy are both heavily steeped in the notion of "Free Will," the capacity to choose, rightly or wrongly, but nevertheless a capacity granted by God or human nature, whichever one might believe. There are limits, and one person's free will must not interfer with the free will of another. That's what the law is for. But matters of conscience, those matters between one and one's Maker, are outside of man-made law. If God exists, he will judge our hearts.
This is diamterically opposed to Sharia Law, in which the word of Allah --written in Arabic and which can never be adequately translated into any other language-- can nevertheless manage to be imposed on any given hapless population, resulting in things like beatings for naughty womens, stonings for very naughty womens, endless strife against all those who can't quite see the wonderful inner beauty of Islam, brain-numbing polemics against the evil Infidel world and so forth.
Unlike M.s Armstrong, I believe that Sharia is particularly poor at interpreting issues of Free Will, possibly because it was not a concept that was useful to Mohammed when he was formulating his religion. Ms. Armstrong's apologies fail to hide this fundamental difference.
Ms. Armstrong (or anyone) can exercise her Free Will and become a slave to Allah. But I have one last problem with this. As a born Kafir, she is the descendant of pigs. How does submitting to Islam change her parentage? Weird.
OT I must comment,
He doest want to be touched by infidels. He appears to lose it when they put a hand on him. How can our culture deal with him when he is repulsed by us? This is typical behavior, notice how he thinks the UCLA library is a “god forsaken place” has someone in the past perhaps defined his view no matter what? He could have showed ID and they would have moved on but he wanted to invoke the Patriot Act as the real demon. They want to throw tantrums over ID, and claim brutality all in an effort to intimidate us and turn America into an area that is basically lawless or too scared to protect the majority of our own citizens. And finally, notice the students, their calls for the Police to stop or supply badge numbers. What about yelling for the guy to cooperate? I want their names, I want to be able to never live within 5 miles of these students. Most likely, there are no standards for good citizenship at the school and definitely not anywhere in that Library.
The religion of Islam is pure in its beliefs and brilliant in its understanding of human nature. It offers the path to success in this world and the next.*- RAMON
Like anything else in this world, the words are also consistently abused by Muslims. Take a word like 'brilliant' above, no thinking person will use that word in the context that Islam is brilliant. Islam is not brilliant in anything. Some people are brilliant, to name a few Einstein, Heisenburg, Newton, Ghandi, Piccaso...
"It offers the path to success in this world and the next" - I have no idea what you are smoking, whatever it is, its not doing you good. Take a look around you, Muslims are the most corrupt, misfits and least successful people for several hundred years on this planet, if not thousands. If you want success then leave those evil worshippers of Islam, enter the 21st centuary and contribute to humanity. After life .. lets not go there.. then you are smoking that stuff more than you should,
Re: Karen Armstrong to Lecture on 'Islam: The Misunderstood Religion'
I have a hunch that this lady Armstrong is on some Saudi's payroll and what she writes is "understood". It must really grate on her self-respect if my hunch is right. I'm sure she really resents that independent scholar whose ancestors came from Turkey, namely the American Robert Spencer and she doesn't like his pal Fitzgerald either.
Raise a glass to the two independent scholars, lads and ladies. Three cheers for Robert and Hugh.
Ramon sez:
"The religion of Islam is pure in its beliefs and brilliant in its understanding of human nature. It offers the path to success in this world and the next."
Okay, so I would take from this sentence that you can cite for us EXAMPLES of brilliant, successful Muslims who shine out brighter than any other human beings on the face of the Earth, correct? I mean, if Islam is the key to everything pure, correct, and intelligent, the certainly you can rattle off a few Muslim Einsteins, Mendelssohns, Gutenbergs, and Edisons.
If you can't name a few, then just name ONE. BTW, Mohammad doesn't count because he invented your whole idiot religion. If it's path cannot lead to an enlightened path towards higher culture, increased knowledge, and advances in science, then it's worthless.
Why every body is so arrogant and upset, boiling in rage here!
Looks like a women is going to address a gathering;
Can’t bear it!
Looks like a women is going to address a gathering; .....................................................................................
What in the Sam Hill does that sentence mean?
Please speak English.
A Khokar-
Looks like you are projecting re women. That's your thought. You have a problem with women, don't you?
“Why every body is so arrogant and upset, boiling in rage here!”
Are you some kind of nut?
freewoman-
Mr. Little A Khokar man is projecting his thought re women.
When I saw the name Mosaic Foundation I thought it might be a Jewish orgainzation. I thought, "are they crazy." But the Mosaic Foundation web site states;
The Mosaic Foundation is a charitable and educational organization founded by the spouses of Arab Ambassadors to the United States. The Mosaic Foundation is dedicated to improving the lives of women and children, while fostering cultural, educational, and professional dialogues between the peoples of the Arab world and the United States.
It is a propaganda outfit and Karen Armstrong will make them feel good about themselves. And, she will pick up a nice pay check. I think she will be preaching to the converted.
A Khokar:
Can YOU help out your little friend Ramon and cite a brilliant Muslim (so much more brilliant than any non-Muslim)? Just name one Muslim who shines out brighter than Einstein, Edison, or Mozart. How hard can that be?
Well Frank, I thought Khokar was filled with the luvvv. I didn't realize it wasn't for women!
freewoman-
Maybe you and me might do some filling, freewoman. I don't have a problem with free women. Trust me. Frank is frank and he's a good guy, too. I like that luvvv, freewoman.
For a glimpse into the illogical thought processes of a US Muslim, go to Glenn Beck’s website and click on “Glenn’s interview with Mohammad from the Islamic Thinkers Society - as heard on the 11/15 show”. It's well worth the listen. The URL is
http://www.glennbeck.com/home/index.shtml
"Why every body is so arrogant and upset, boiling in rage here!
Looks like a women is going to address a gathering;
Can’t bear it!"
I think he thinks we are jihadists, watching jihad for authenticity. We are angry at this woman for talking about peaceful islam to a gathering of I’m sure he presumes, men.
A few days ago, I was in Borders and Karen Armstrong's book was heavily discounted- think it was even under $5. Says a lot, doesn't it?
tgusa, I'm assuming that A Khokar does not know who Karen Armstrong is, he doesn't care who she is, and can't understand what all this fuss about her is.
It's not too hard to figure this attitude--Karen Armstrong IS just a woman, and she's probably only a non-Muslim dhimmi, so how low down on the Islamic evolutionary ladder can you get?
someone said above about Karen Armstrong being in the pockets of saudi money. is there a way of finding out who is paying her off?
Muslim slaughter in Sudan is worse then ever. Evidence of genocide is presented at the UN. Government sponsored Islamic militants are inflicting jihad against lower caste black Muslims and Christians. OPEC countries, awash in petrodollars and Islam, support the Sudanese government.
Western orthodox Muslims, and the black Nation of Islam, loyal to superstitious dogma, instead of basic morals and ethics, choose to ignore the ongoing episode. The Red Dragon also blocks Western progress at the UN, while extracting Sudanese oil.
What a nice woman. I ought to have a cup of tea with her, and explain a few things.
I clicked on the link to Mosaic Foundation, and it mentioned a Nancy Yacoub, so I googled Nancy Yacoub and came to the Mosaic Foundation main Website Here
And voila what do I see at the top of the page but..
American Friends of Neve Shalom/Wahat al Salam
and at the bottom of the page a list of names of officers. Not many (if any Muslims here).. but Elie Wiesel? of All people, Elie Wiesel..
Honorary Council
Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski
Sara Ehrman
Khalil Jahshan
Hon. Samuel W. Lewis
Hani Masri
Hon. Richard Murphy
Elie Wiesel
Board of Directors & Affiliations
Officers
Deborah First, President
Professor (emeritus), Nazareth College
Chautauqua, New York
Dr. Kayed Sobhi Khalil, Vice President
Doctor of Chiropractic Medicine
Framingham, Massachusetts
Judith Tuller, Vice President
Financial Advisor
New York City, New York
Elias Shomali, Vice President
Businessman
Baltimore, Maryland
Barbara Green, Secretary
Attorney
Washington, DC
David Matz, Treasurer
Attorney, Professor
Boston, Massachusetts
Rev. Gordon Webster, National Development Committee Chair
Presbyterian Minister
Spencerport, New York
Directors of the Board
Judy Dubin
Child Development Specialist
Beverly Hills, California
Adeeb Fadil
Attorney
New York City, New York
Gordon Fellman
Professor
Boston, Massachusetts
Richard Goodwin
CEO, Goodwin Enterprises
Aspen, Colorado
Roberta Gordon
Attorney
New York City, New York
Imad Hamad
Non-profit Director
Dearborn, Michigan
David Hitchcock
Former diplomat, Asia and Israel
Bethesda, Maryland
Jesse Zel Lurie
Journalist, former editor-in-chief of Hasassah Magazine
Delray Beach, Florida
Naomi Shihab Nye
Author
San Antonio, Texas
Frank Rubenfeld
Clinical psychologist
Berkeley, California
Myer Sankary
Attorney; mediator
Los Angeles, California
Jeanine Shama
Non-profit consultant
New York, NY
Shibley Telhami
Professor, foreign policy advisor, media commentator
Silverspring, Maryland
Nancy Yacoub
Development Specialist
Washington D.C.
National Staff
Deanna Armbruster, Executive Director
Jennifer Fischer, Assistant Executive Director
Jen Geib, Administrative Assistant
Maybe she needs to recite the Koran, and Surah and Hadith. Or maybe she needs to learn Aramic. Or maybe she needs to wear a head scarf, and tell us how female circumcision is just. I love these female conclusions to something that hates, and loathes female contributions. Walk the five to ten steps behind, and tell us of how you are somehow, not created equal? Proliferate the species that deems you as cattle. And ostrecize the government that gives you some sort of say as to how you will be stoned!
If I were a chauvenistic pig, I would be able to speak my word, simply on the grounds of free speach. If I were seeking to gain a feminist veiw, I would say no longer shall you be able to mutilate thee with no anatheisiololigst at hand. No longer will you be able to hack up women's sexual organs. But I guess it is all good when it comes to winning seats, or the next political spot. Circumscising women is ok I guess in Islam. Tell that to an American womam, and you will see the end of human recourse!
Karen Amstrong is a seriously misguided scholar.
Posted by: Foehammer at November 17, 2006 10:41 AM
Karen ARmstrong is not a scholar. She is a professional shill for islam, paid to revise history and promote islam as an innocuous "religion" instead of a form of fascism with a bloodly, shameful history and the deadliest of intentions. You can bet she will say exactly what her audience wants to hear and afterwards, her lies and deceptions will be lauded and widely publicized. I'm sure CAIR will weigh in with accolades for her "truthful" presentation of islam.
It is quite apparent that when she became disillusioned with Catholicism and Western civilization, she threw morality, integrity, veracity, and honor out the window. She has turned religious studies into a lucrative scam, and lies about islam sell big.
Compared to Robert Spencer this woman is a dilettante, a pathetic amateur who has somehow managed to attain far more credibility than she deserves.
I'm certain this has been said above in this thread, but isn't it time for the misunderstanders of the misunderstanders of Islam such as Karen Armstrong to come clean and admit that it is they who have misunderstood Islam, and that those who they have been called the "misunderstanders of Islam" have all along understood Islam far too well?
Well...?
Posted by: remote_control
From what I have read, the Arab Muslims who swept across Asia Minor and North Africa and into the Iberian peninsula at such an amazing rate of imperialistic velocity and voracity in the 7th and 8th centuries did so in large part because of a rather unusual military style whereby they would rush into battle suicidally, due mainly to their religious fanaticism -- which would seem to flatly contradict Ibn Khaldūn's characterization of them.
Yes it does seem that way until one looks at the origins of or Myth of Arabs
Before Mohammed there where no Arabs,just a scattering of tribes.A great amount of historic documents concerning early (Arabs) have been destroyed in Islamic times in order to annihilate the memory of the original background from which Islam emerged and how did it change the cultural features of the Arabs - so, it is not a surprising factor that they did likewise with the peoples that they subdued. Only strongly established cultures resisted and were not "arabized" (like Jews, Assyrians, Coptic Egyptians, Armenians, that never surrendered to Islam).
The first battles fought by Mohammed where no more than treacherous cowardly attacks against other defenceless tribes.Many of the later battles where fought by other tribes that had been Islamized/Arabized
In general, the term "Arab" in modern times is applied to a large group of different peoples that share in common the Arabic language, which for the overwhelming majority of them is not their original one but the tongue imposed to their forefathers by the Arabian conquerors.
It is true that the Arab countries have not only language in common but also most cultural features as well, yet, this is the result of the colonization and subsequent annihilation of the original pre-Arabic culture.
It happens frequently that the word Arab is misused on purpose for political strategy:
1) by applying this term as an ethnic definition to the Arabized peoples (mainly North-Africans), in order to increase the number of the Arab population, and
2) in a quite improper way, by calling "Arab" to ancient peoples that existed in the Middle East in order to claim historic rights and legitimate the Arab occupation
The original Arab culture has been lost and the most reliable information we have about it comes from external sources, because Islamic revisionism has produced a legendary account in replacement of the scientific truth, and so one of the most fascinating cultures of the past is now missing.
The Arabian myths have been created in order to legitimate the "pre-existence" of Islam by ascribing fanciful tales allegedly happened in Arabia
The pre-Islamic Arabs were mainly ruled by queens like the Nubians, Ethiopians and other Hamitic nations, and had a female-centred society.
Islam has reversed the original culture into a male-ruled society,and imposing a system based on applying the opposite patterns to the previous social rules and customs.
Ancient Arabians had a great culture, that might have evolved into a modern civilization and a developed society like other peoples of the Middle East as the Jews or the Armenians, but their original culture was destroyed and their history was replaced by legends...and desolation
Arab. Indeed, the term "Arabia" is Greek, and its probable etymology may be of Semitic origin: 1) 'arabah = steppe, wilderness; which is very appropriate. Wherever Arabs have conquered, the lands became deserted; the Arabian peninsula itself was not so dry, and Yemen had an irrigation network that allowed the land to be fruitful before Northern Arabs invaded and subdued the Sabean kingdom. Spain and Sicily were fertile lands in Roman times; they became dry during the Arab occupation. Only Israel recovered fertility after hard work done by Jews - the pieces of land still occupied by Arabs remain arid.
EVERYONE IN ENGLAND,
Here's some bantha poodu I found today while surfing some pro-Islamic websites.
It seems that a pro-Islamic rally in London is getting underway and is scheduled for the 20th of November. More information is available here:
http://www.bminitiative.net/bmi/en/details_home.aspx?ID=103&table=sub
So, if you live near London, why not get out some poster boards and paint, and start making some signs quoting, "Kill the unbelievers" type stuff from the Qur'an, along with verse numbers, for them to read while they try to "protect" those poor misunderstood Muslims...
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Ramon
Islam means no such thing.
It means "submission".
The arabic word "ilah" which means "god" appears nowhere in the word "Islam" (No "allah" does not mean god, it is simply the NAME of the Islamic god (ilah) as the koran clearly tells you more than 53 times.
Muslim do not worship the same god as do Christians and Jews. Anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence can see that the God of the bible (Yahweh), and the god of Islam("allah", who's form is that of a black rock) are complete opposites.
THe real God, the God of the bible, asks you to live in peace, to love one another, not kill each other, as the god of the koran (Satan) does.
Open your eyes, and read the Koran, then read the gospel. Then ask yourself, who would you rather follow?
There really is only one essential question Robert needs to ask Karen Armstrong: Is the Qur'an a divine dictation?
If she says it is, then he can hang her with its surahs and with the Sunnah (itself being deemed faithfully a correct explanation of the Qur'an). I feel quite confident that either Robert of Hugh can clean her clock with how thoroughly they know the Islamic sources. Armstrong does not stand a chance.
If she denies that the Qur'an is a divine dictation, then she also forfeits her creds with Muslims and is outed on that front.
It should not be difficult to score the knockout.
shiva,
"the Arab Muslims who swept across Asia Minor and North Africa and into the Iberian peninsula at such an amazing rate of imperialistic velocity and voracity in the 7th and 8th centuries did so in large part because of a rather unusual military style whereby they would rush into battle suicidally, due mainly to their religious fanaticism -- which would seem to flatly contradict Ibn Khaldūn's characterization of them."
A Short History of Christianity?
It seems that a pro-Islamic rally in London is getting underway and is scheduled for the 20th of November(*- D-BullDog
It looks like other faiths are also supporting this rally, which indicates that Islam is not understood by them. How can people be sooooo dumm I just don't get it.
My concern is if Muslims let go off a so called 'dirty bomb' on 19th, this rally will still go ahead on 20th. That is so strange. The main problem with this rally is that the other faiths which are going to go out to support it, they have been the main victims of Islam for hundreds of years. The idea of inter-faith harmonization is great if the others reciprocate. It is absolute nonsense if others abuse it, as the Muslims do.
We need to totally eliminate Islam because it is evil and inhumane.
THE MEANING OF "ISLAM"
Ramon, most of us DO know that "Islam" is supposed to mean "submit". But no one has ever clarified as to WHO is supposed to submit and to WHOM is the object of their submission. If it really meant the Islamic worshiper's submission to Allah, I would think Muslims would have been tripping all over themselves to clarify this point ad nauseum through their new best friends, the liberal media. However, in the deafening roar of that silence, perhaps we can assume that "Islam" really refers to the SUMBISSION OF THE WORLD TO ISLAM!
Any "religion" that boasts of a "god" who teaches that it's OK: to kill infidels (translation: those who don't believe as you do), to force conversion with a sword (a Divine God wants His children to love Him and choose Him of their own free will, not a false conversion because their lives have been threatened or their bodies have been tortured), for husbands to beat their wives and rape their female servants (if they just can't 'restrain' themselves), to use human shields & cowardly tactics in warfare, to teach first graders and younger how to hate and put hateful idealogy and propaganda over reading & writing, to rewrite history if actual history doesn't portray his followers in a favorable light, to teach children & teenagers that it's a 'glorious thing' to sneak up on innocent people as suicide bombers (how a recess yard full of unsuspecting young students meets the definition of "enemy combatants," I will never know; it must take a profound lack of mental health to comprehend such a concept), and to bomb innocent civilians in restaurants, at their own weddings, on buses, in schools, & even among your own fellow Muslims!
Think about it: no other religion teaches that it's a great & honorable thing to murder as many people as you can because, if you do, you will be a "jihad martyr" and Allah will take you into heaven and give you 72 virgins with large breasts and large brown eyes -- any religious teaching that appeals to your carnal lusts should automatically be SUSPECT in your minds! Any "god" who teaches that he wants worshipers so bad that he doesn't care how they are delivered to him(even if out of fear at the point of a sword) is not a god who loves or cares about the spirit of anybody. Finally, unless they die by jihad, Muslims have absolutely no guarantee that Allah will even accept them into 'heaven'. In "How Islam Plans To Change The World," the author describes how many things each Muslim must privately carry in his or her fear-filled thoughts about eternal destiny. For example, they have to worry if their good deeds outweighed their bad deeds at the time they died, and they pray most fervently that they don't die suddenly or unexpectedly when they don't have a chance to add more good deeds to their tally list! Because the Qu'ran teaches that far more women are in hell than in men (simply another indication at how women are put down in Islam), they already have a huge mark against them if they happen to have the misfortune of being born a female. Also, while very few details are really provided about 'heaven,' the descriptions about the horrors of hell and its 7 levels are enough to give even the most committed atheist some gruesome nightmares! Why should a "prophet of god" have more information about hell than heaven??
Christians are told that they are expected to be held to a higher standard because of Whom they represent. Those of us who genuinely love our Lord Jesus and what He did for us (so we would not have to see the horrors of hell) would rather be shot than find out that anyone rejected Him because of our actions or conduct. So it is very, very important what our actions say about as as people and about Who is the source of our faith, hope, & trust. The actions of Muslims loudly denounce anything the propaganda machine says about "peace," "love," and "we're misunderstood". You're understood loud & clear -- you are throwing away your immortal souls by serving a 'god' and a 'religion' that has been spawened from the 'father of all lies' (ignoring even your own founder, Muhammed, who came out & claimed in the Qu'ran that he spoke the words of Satan; none of God's r-e-a-l prophets or the Son of God, Jesus Christ, ever spoke the evil one's words because of the Hand of God Almighty upon them) and choosing a life of evil, violence, and paganism. However, that's not enough for you because the Qu'ran did tell you to conquer the world, didn't it? So now you want to lock everyone into the same misery you have chosen for yourselves ... you might spare some who 'convert' rather than be beheaded or become shish kabob on the edge of a sword!
It's nice to give out all the websites to "teach" us the "truth" about Islam but, Ramon, please believe me when I tell you that we have already learned the truth about Islam from your spiritual siblings' actions in so many countries around the world (Darfur was certainly 'blessed' when radical Islam came to that region, right?)-- the Muslims couldn't be any clearer about who they are & what they are all about. The websites are designed solely to keep our minds & vision blurred with propoganda for a little bit longer while the proponents of Islam progress in their efforts at worldwide domination. Just realize that many of us do not value this temporal world or our limited earthly lives above all else, and -- as long as our Lord Jesus Christ has genuinely devoted followers, there will always be those of us who will NEVER submit to Islam.
Respectfully In The Service Of Our Lord Jesus Christ:
KimEllen
MAKE A DIFFERENCE MINISTRIES
Reading Ramon's comments...an extract from something I just posted on my blog on peace vs submission:
Here again you have the two 'ifs':
(a) If God forgive . . .
(b) If God take vengeance . . .
This remark of Yazid's seems to me to epitomise the whole of Islam. When you for years have worked through the great and imposing structure of Islamic thought, it is desponding beyond words to find that the foundation of it all is that little word 'if'. That 'if' is the feet of clay of the colossal and awe-inspiring image, known as Muslim theology. It comes out even where the author's intention is just the opposite. For instance regarding Sura 39:53, which was mentioned before (see paragraph 11), in which it says Allah's servants are not to despair for He forgives their faults altogether, Muhammed Ali comments as follows: 'The mercy and love of Allah, which are much talked of in other religions, find their true and practical expression in Islam'. No religion gives the solace and comfort which we find in this verse. It discloses the all-comprehensive mercy of Allah, before which the sins of men become quite insignificant. He is not a mere Judge who decides between two parties, but a Master who deals with His servants as He pleases, and therefore He can forgive the guilty without injustice to anybody. Note the last sentence: A Master who deals with His servants AS HE PLEASES, and therefore He can forgive, etc. Even the Ahmadiya, Muhammed Ali, with his very careful choice of words would not presume to say that this Master of whom he speaks does forgive, for He does as He pleases, and Muhammed Ali like all others cannot know what His pleasure will be.
As you have seen, it is ridiculous to tell a Muslim that his religion is a law-religion. It is, no doubt, in the sense that he feels it incumbent upon him to abide by a great number of rules and regulation as an expression of God's will. And yet for the Muslim it is not really a law religion, for his obedience has no bearing on his final condition before Allah. On the other hand it is not an evangel, that is, the publishing of good news, for what good news can there ever be in that awful, uncertain, unpredictable 'if'; and yet no man, from Muhammed himself right down to the lowest aboriginal Muslim, would ever presume to know or dare to predict what 'if' will mean for him.
There is also an 'if' in Christianity, but the great difference between it and the 'if' of Islam is that that 'if' is never predicated of God. The whole content of the Gospel is simply this one thing: to show mankind that God is faithful towards His creation. He has restricted Himself with pacts, covenants and promises; He has revealed Himself in a perfect union with manhood; He has carried the burden of man's fall on Himself—all so that we may know Him and trust Him as the 'Faithful One', that is, as the One who keeps faith with His creation. The 'if' in Christianity is always predicated of man: if you will believe, if you will trust, if you will accept, then God is faithful, you can always count on Him.
I have often been asked what Islam is, if it is neither law nor evangel. There is only one appropriate answer: Islam is submission to the inevitable. Just that and nothing more. Not, mind you, submission to God. If you, the Christian, say that, you are thinking 'God' in terms of Christian teaching, that is, you are thinking of the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. And even then the idea of submitting yourself to God is found only once (James 4:7) in the whole of the New Testament. The Christian, eagerly with prayer and dedication, places himself gladly in the hand of God, the Father. If, on the other hand, the Muslim says Islam is submission to God, he means the Allah of the prophet Muhammed, and that, in reality, means submission to the inevitable.
You can get no further with the Muslim, neither in his daily life nor in his eschatological belief.
[1] This and the following quotations and examples are found in The Torch of Guidance to the Mystery of Redemption, translated by Sir W. Muir, and printed by the Religious Tract Society, London.
And just closing the blockquote here.
I see the usual suspects are going to be at that rally in London - Ken Al Livingstani ( fresh back from his all expenses paid trip to Cuba with a nice tan at London taxpayers expense), Sickball Siqranie who called for death to Salman Rushdie, Tony Benn, the washed up Trot and Professor Ramadamadingdong. No doubt, they'll all pick up fat expenses cheques but paid for by whom?
God help us.
About with BMI meeting...
I notice that the Director for the Jewish Council for Racial Equality will also attend.
He must be going to listen to the anti-Semitic jibes from Mayor Livinstone!Did n't he recently refer to a Journalist as a concentration guard?
What about Siqranie's failure to acknowledge the Shoah!How many people in this audience recognise the state of Israel?How many people in the audience believe Jews are descended for Apes and Pigs?
How many Jews went to the Nuremburg Rallies?
This is a great time to reread Robert Spencer's great article on Karen Armstrong from 2005 (very informative):
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18732
and excellent excertp from the above article link:
ROBERT SPENCER SAID (quote):
"... “Like the Bible,” Armstrong says, “the Qur’an has its share of aggressive texts, but like all the great religions, its main thrust is towards kindliness and compassion. Islamic law outlaws war against any country in which Muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely, and forbids the use of fire, the destruction of buildings and the killing of innocent civilians in a military campaign.” But the problem within Islam is not that of a few aggressive texts in the Qur’an, parallel to a few in the Bible. In the Bible there are indeed aggressive texts, but there is no open-ended and universal command to all believers to make war against unbelievers, a la Qur’an 9:29. Nor is that an isolated text: Islam, unlike Christianity, has a developed doctrine sanctioning and calling for this warfare. The Shafi’i manual Reliance of the Traveller, which bears the endorsement of Sunni Islam’s most respected authority, Al-Azhar University in Cairo, stipulates that jihad is “a communal obligation” to “war against non-Muslims.” It teaches that “the caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians…until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax . . . The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim” (o9.0, o9.1, o9.8, and o9.9). This is one reason why jihad terrorists like Osama bin Laden want so badly to restore the caliphate – so that such a jihad can be pursued. There is no doctrine like this in any other major religion."
and
“There are too many lazy, unexamined assumptions about Islam,” complains Armstrong, and she notes that “precise intelligence is essential in any conflict.” Quite right. And she is right again when she says that “by making the disciplined effort to name our enemies correctly, we will learn more about them, and come one step nearer, perhaps, to solving the seemingly intractable and increasingly perilous problems of our divided world.” Yet ironically enough, it is clear from her own obfuscations and distortions of Islam that she herself has not made this disciplined effort.
END OF QUOTES
___
Loor her up and you will find that
Karen Armstrong is a disgruntled former nun who is bent on obscuring facts either willingly or truly is ignorant of them (in which case her rejected PhD failed thesis was probably due to a systemic problem in her approach to academic study).
..it goes to show you what caliber of "scholars" (and I use the term quite loosely when refering to Armstrong) one finds to defend a system of thought that is obviously violent to its core and is unashamedly so.
I dont think even an apologist for WWII Nazism would it as difficult to defend Islam because unlike WWII Nazism --Islam is based on a long history (not just a few years before 1938 as the Nazi party had) of SHOWING exactly its "interpretation" of the quran/hadiths in its years from day one where muhammed killed Arabic tribes for not willingly converting to Islam to the 9/11 attack where adherrants shouted the same battle cry as their founder 'allah ackbar'.
By their fruits you shall know them. -Jesus the Christ
I meant:
I think even an apologist for WWII Nazism would it find it difficult to defend Islam because unlike WWII Nazism --
Did she or anyones else see Obsession OMG what is the problem with people have we become so desensitized and such a zombie nation that we can not see what is happening. Turn of the games, turn of the playstation. Warn your family of this incredable threat. This women needs and supository.
in re the imperialistic impulses of the early Arab-Muslims, consider the book Imperialism by Jos. Schumpeter.
See links: http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/sociology-of-arab-imperialism.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/sociology-of-arab-imperialism_16.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/sociology-of-arab-imperialism-part.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/sociology-of-arab-imperialism_20.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/sociology-of-arab-imperialism_24.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/sociology-of-arab-imperialism_28.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/sociology-of-arab-imperial_113322064172217787.html
Someone needs to find Ms Armstrong a good man -- preferably an Iranian Iman. She can lecture him on Misunderstood Isam while he beats the hell out of her for misunderstanding her role as a Women in a Muslim marriage.