"They warned that attempts to remove religion from the festival were fuelling Right-wing extremism." And it's certainly true. The pusillaminity of authorities only fuels frustration among non-Muslims, aiding the growth of parties like the BNP -- whose strength is an indication of the abject failure of the political mainstream in Britain to deal adequately with the problem of jihadists in Britain. "Leave Christmas alone, say Muslims," by Jonathan Petre in the Telegraph, with thanks to DFS:
Muslim leaders joined their Christian counterparts yesterday to launch a powerful attack on politicians and town halls that play down Christmas.They warned that attempts to remove religion from the festival were fuelling Right-wing extremism.
A number of town halls have tried to excise references to Christianity from Christmas, in one case by renaming their municipal celebrations "Winterval".
They have often justified their actions by saying Britain is now a multi-faith society and they are anxious to avoid offending minority groups.
But the Muslim leaders said they honoured Christmas and that local authorities were playing into the hands of extremists who were able to blame Muslim communities for undermining Britain's Christian culture.
The unprecedented broadside was delivered by the Christian Muslim Forum, which was launched this year by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, with the support of Tony Blair.
The forum's reaction reflects growing anger among Christians and other faiths about the efforts of secularists to push religion to the margins of public life.
In 1998 Birmingham renamed its celebrations "Winterval", and in 2001 Luton described its Christmas lights as "luminos", taken from Harry Potter.
Last week, the Church of England criticised Royal Mail for issuing Christmas stamps with no Christian theme.
The forum, which draws half its membership from senior members of the Muslim community, said in a statement that "as Muslims and Christians together" it was "wholeheartedly committed" to the religious recognition of Christian festivals.
"Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus and we wish this significant part of the Christian heritage of this country to remain an acknowledged part of national life.
"The desire to secularise religious festivals is offensive to both of our communities."
The statement, signed by the forum's chairman, the Bishop of Bolton, the Rt Rev David Gillett, and its vice-chairman, Dr Ataullah Siddiqui, urged society to promote religious freedom.
"Those who use the fact of religious pluralism as an excuse to de-Christianise British society unthinkingly become recruiting agents for the extreme Right. They provoke antagonism towards Muslims and others by foisting on them an anti-Christian agenda they do not hold."
Right. There needs to be a forthright public discussion in Britain and elsewhere in the West about how to deal with the jihad ideology. Attempts to portray such concerns as the preoccupation only of the "extreme Right" have largely succeeded both in Britain and the U.S. But this blackout will bear bitter fruit for the Politically Correct, for it only aids the growth of the sinister forces they fear most. We can only hope that the political mainstream, neither politically correct nor fascist or irrational and violent, will awaken to the magnitude of this situation before it is too late.
"Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus and we wish this significant part of the Christian heritage of this country to remain an acknowledged part of national life."
Wow! That is so nice of them. I guess they don't quite have enough people to take over yet.
"The desire to secularize religious festivals is offensive to both our communities."
So here they admit that they are not part of the community, that they have their own way of doing things and that they are not assimilating. Check.
"They warned that attempts to remove religion from the festival were fuelling Right-wing extremism."
Let's hear it for Right-wing extremism!!
It's very simple, you touch my Christmas lights you get your ass kicked. I'm glad we understand one another.
Things have been going this way for a long, long time. I am pleased that there is an audible backlash now (even if from an unexpected quarter).
It is ironical, however, that the majority of Britains are atheist/agnostic in practice (i.e. I believe that only 5%, or so are regular church-goers on a weekly basis: my figures may be incorrect here), and so that the perception of the lack of a Christian basis to the festival must stem only from an atavistic or, even, unconscious desire to replicate the Christmas(s)es of a long forgotten . Yet, I am quite convinced that even this vestigial reluctance to abandon the faith of our forefathers carries some weight.
Would that Christmas were a "celebration of the birth of Jesus": I strongly suspect itis not - even for the overwhelming non-Muslim part of the population, and doubly peculiar as Christmas is now, in my view, primarily a festival of commerce dedicated to Mammon.
Re Harry Potter - without wishing to stray too "off topic", one might, indeed, make a very convincing case that for most Britons Harry is more "real" than Jesus.
Some muslims are more clever than others. Whatever fuels the right, will help us in our war on islam. The problem is that the right does not need fuel. It needs numbers. And in Britain, the numbers just arent there. You could ban Christmas altogether in Britain, and the Right would still not come to power.
Nonetheless, the muslims are worried that they may be moving too fast before they have the influence to crush any revolt. They do not care about offending Christians, or western culture. This is more taqiyya. They care about offending it before they have the power to subjugate us. What they fear is a backlash. This is classic war strategy from the koran, which itself, might as well have been inspired from Sun-tzu's The Art of War.
Lets be clear - they are efforts to push the christian religion to the margins of society.
Because the left, especially in the UK, abhors the Christian religion, hates, and by hating, attempts to deny the truth - that the society in which they live is a Christian society, that the values of that society, its laws, the very fabric, are Christian.
They hate, and they see Islam as a convenient weapon in their war against christianity, too dumb to understand the significance of the old expression 'hoist with your own petard'.
It's a trap!! Keep Christmas intact and one sets a precedent for keeping, say... genital mutilation, or any other beautiful islamic religious tradition, intact.
August 22, you are correct in that this is all more taqqiyah. I have so much disrespect for these wooses who are really brave when they have all their little grenade throwing minions around them but who back off big time when they realiize they've gotten in way over their heads. But they will learn from this and be more careful next time. We should, however take this opportunity to hit back hard and regain some ground. If the Muslims fear a backlash, then it should be exploited in every possible way. The native born Brits should take to the streets, and pitch a big fit LOUDLY so their leaders will understand that they are not dead yet, that they still have a voice and are a group to be reckoned with. The British leaders seem to pee their pants everytime a Muslim says "Boo" so having seen this the people in Britain need to do the same and get something done over.
Oh and while you're at it, take back that $1000 from the little whiner who got her feelings hurt because she couldn't wear her Hefty bag to teach class. That one just boils my blood.
I can't believe the title of this post.... :|
right you are know-your-enemy, the muslims know that the grateful christians will not object when they make their demands for islamic this and islamic that when it comes up.
"I can't believe the title of this post..."
Yeah, what the hell?
Does anyone here think like I do that there is something in it for our brave leaders to NOT stand up for us, that they are receiving some sort of payoff to sell us out and it has nothing to do with being scared of the jihad? Why else are our kids being taught Islamic traditions in the public schools in America and NOT our history and Western Civics. Who came up with that idea?
We had an election last week in the US that was a big joke. The choice was between the president's folks who don't have a clue (or do they?) about the ramifications of allowing all these damned Muslims in our country to set up their little jihadi shops and wait until the opportune moment, and the communists who won who are getting ready to hand over the keys of the kingdom. What good will free health care be to US citizens? Your head has to be attached to your body in order to get medical treatment.
Is that Taqiya I smell mixing with the smell of roast chestnuts?
Isabellathecrusader, that has crossed my mind. Not that I'm into conspiracy theories, but something's not right and I can feel it.
Km,
Good One!
How about this:
Where's his head,
See it missing,
By the road,
The blood is glistening,
A horrible sight,
We're shell-shocked tonight,
Walking through Islamic Wonderland.
Where's your bomb?
It's on my waistband.
What's your job?
I die for Islam.
I've got guns and knives,
So run for your lives,
Livin' in Islamic Wonderland.
In the US we'll practice Taqqiyah,
We'll tell you we love our neighbor well,
Then when we've enough to take you over,
We'll slice you up and send you off to hell.
Later on, in the fire,
Your kids and house,
Will all expire,
A beautiful sight,
We're happy tonight,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland...
"The forum's reaction reflects growing anger among Christians and other faiths about the efforts of secularists to push religion to the margins of public life."
Actually, it seems the list of religions in danger of being pushed to the margins of public life excludes Islam.
Elias,
The problem is that if you say anything about a conspiracy theory then you get labelled. But I'm telling you, like you, my gut says something isn't right. And the way the news media and our fearless leaders placate and appease Muslims, who believe in things that don't resemble what we believe in proves to me that there is something going on that we are not privy to. We're just supposed top work all day and support bug government and come home and watch the crappy TV and then get up and do it again tomorrow. We're not supposed to think. Oh-oh, sorry. the teachers I had in school, and mostly my parents taught me that and now I'm kind of addicted to it, thinking, that is.
That's: We're supposed to work all day and support big government...
Jeepers Creepers!
Isabellathecrusader I love your jihad carol.
The last verse is superb.
Later on, in the fire,
Your kids and house,
Will all expire,
A beautiful sight,
We're happy tonight,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland..
ROFLMAO
Winterval? They should be sued.
From the Seinfeld show, George's father: "Festivus, for the rest of us."
Sorry KM, I know it's gross, but I'm "feelin' it".
I gotta run. I'm going to hear Robert speak today!
Maybe later I'll treat you all to "Have yourself a Merry little Jihad. ; )
P.S. I hate to sound stupid but what is the ROF part of ROFLMAO?
Britain is turning into the land of sci-fi? I'm astounded that the US hasn't surpassed it in the effort to make Christmas into a myth but with the winners of last week's election ready to take over
it's just a matter of time before we come up with some really great names to top "Winterval".
Well, I suppose it's nice to know that the entire Western world shares two afflictions-Islamania and stupid politicians. Too bad we can't get rid of both.
Isabella
It means rolling on the floor laughing my ass off ROFLMAO. :-)
"and in 2001 Luton described its Christmas lights as "luminos", taken from Harry Potter."
Ironic, since the Harry Potter series has been accused of promoting witchcraft.
OTH - here is Charlie Brown's Jihad Christmas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuPDm5fYFT8
Wow.
How can anyone now accuse Islam and Muslims of religious intolerance - as here they are practising tolerance of other faiths, even Christianity, which is a rival. The BBC will be proclaiming this sentiment from the rooftops for weeks on end, and it will be used again and again, to show that in Islam 'there is no compulsion in religion', and Islam respects all other faiths.
It is such a feel good sentiment, and I now believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
Getting rid of Christmas is how Labour celebrates Christmas. Their faith is destroying everything that traces back before 1945 in Britain.
Perhaps something like Bino describes them, British in name only?
"Muslim leaders joined their Christian counterparts yesterday to launch a powerful attack on politicians and town halls that play down Christmas.
They warned that attempts to remove religion from the festival were fuelling Right-wing extremism."
translated = it's not that we give a shit about christmas or the infidels christians, it's just that we are playing the over-abuse victimhood card.
muslims are pathetic
These guys are hilarious, how can anybody fall for this shit. Muslims standing up for Christian rights, that is only done as many above have stated for their own purposes.
Where are these Muslims in Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and every other Islamic state on the planet? Why are they not asking for respect for Christmas and Christians in their own world? Simply because it's all bullshit.
Next the Islamic community will stand for women's and gay rights.
Niv
Yay team! Tolerant societies are working. Big hug.
...
20 Years later, after 23 normal attacks, one nuke attack
...
All people with a Christmas tree will be shot on sight.
(And that's just what a 30% Muslim population is like!)
Disgusting. It is revolting to see the enemy (islam and the muslims that spread it) stoop to this level of obvious islamic lying. No one is buying this crap anymore.
And for the Christians who have fallen under the spell of the muslim deceptions, wake up. You are dancing with the devil.
Islam: no dogs allowed.
I don't know who is really fuelling this stupid trend. Don't blame secularists: I'm all for a secular society, and I'm an atheist.
But I also enjoy a traditional Christmas and am all for its celebration.
"I don't know who is really fuelling this stupid trend. Don't blame secularists: I'm all for a secular society, and I'm an atheist.
But I also enjoy a traditional Christmas and am all for its celebration."
Dear Lili, I'm sure you're a very nice person, however I do blame secularists for almost everything that is going on these days in the west.
It is this secular zeal which comes directly from the socialist ideals of Marx and Lenin that have brought this problem to the forefront. We have systematically been dismantling our cultures that have taken 2 thousand years to build, all because of secularism and socialism(Hand in hand).
How can we expect to defend our rights and freedoms which were drawn based off of Christian and western (Greek)philosophies, when we tear them down and make them worthless. We are losing this war around the world because our enemies are true believers in their God and their Islamic doctrine.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel when your enemies have given up on their own culture and do everything they can to accommodate their enemies at every turn.
There's a huge difference between freedom of religion and the deconstruction of your own culture. Maybe it's time to believe again and find reasons to fight and defend the rights we are throwing away.
Niv
Niv,
That's an excellent point. Because people who are eager to get rid of Christianity don't realize that it is the glue that holds our society together.
If secularists want to build a society of their own with no Christian morality, traditions or culture, go for it. But if you take a Christian society that has been built upon these things and you start pulling little pieces of Christianity out all over the place you will weaken the structure and eventually the whole thing will come crashing down. And unfortunately, instead of Gorilla Glue, we've got Islamic glue coming in to save the day. And we know since it has no love and no mercy within it's structure our new society will be much worse than the old one.
In 1998 Birmingham renamed its celebrations "Winterval", and in 2001 Luton described its Christmas lights as "luminos", taken from Harry Potter.
Sheer degeneracy and capitulation.
Who would want to celebrate that?
A lot of the posters here seem to be unaware that secularism and atheism are not the same thing. Most democratic nations in the world today are secular, even if the majority of their citizens are very religious and enjoy full freedom to practice their religion. Official secularism does not mean the erasure of all elements of religion from public life. Study a few constitutions, people.
Secularism or atheism, they both throw God out of public life. God has been effectively eradicated from public life in the United States, by design, although that was not the intention or what was implemented by the forefathers. The separation of church and state idea came from a letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists. It is NOT in our Constitution.
Go back and study it yourself.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1274528/posts
OK, now I'm really confused.
If you try to take a 'Christmas' tree into Saudi Arabia any time after mid November it is taken off you at the border. So tell me again how Islam supports Christmas?
Isabella:
That was great! I'll be singing it as I drive home.
On a more serious note:
I'm not going to criticize the forum for stating the truth. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. However, if the forum really wants to stand up for religious freedom, they'd demand the UK pressure Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries to let Christians celebrate Christmas there.
Thanks Isabella, you're bang on.
Niv
You're welcome, guys. ; )
Isabella the Crusader wrote: "Secularism or atheism, they both throw God out of public life. God has been effectively eradicated from public life in the United States, by design, although that was not the intention or what was implemented by the forefathers. The separation of church and state idea came from a letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists. It is NOT in our Constitution.
Go back and study it yourself."
Yo, Isabella, I wasn't just talking about your American Constitution (which I HAVE studied, BTW, even though I am not American, and have a huge amount of respect an admiration for). Please try to grasp the difficult concept that other highly successful, prosperous, and free nation states, CONSTITUTIONAL democracies, exist in the world today, and that when one refers to a constitution, one is not ipso facto referring to the U.S. one and only that one.
And yes, having studied your country's great Constitution I do know that the actual term "separation of church and state" is not used, and that Jefferson used the term in a letter written later. However, the Constitution as it is written makes it clear enough to anyone but the most obstinate legalistic Christians (of whom there are unfortunately many) that such a separation was essential in the new republic. News flash, some non-Americans actually know something about American history! I also know that Thomas Jefferson, one of your country's founding fathers, was not a practicing Christian (he defined himself as a "Deist", meaning he believed in the existence of a higher power), and another, Thomas Paine, was an atheist. If the reality of the Constitution isn't enough, how do you people reconcile that knowledge?
The U.S. is a secular state. So is Israel, so is India. All countries where the large majority of the population are religious. Iran, other the other hand, is not a secular state. It is an Islamofascist state. What you people envision for the U.S. is a Christian fascist state, but clearly the majority of your people ain't buyin' it. Boo-hoo-hoo.
And BTW, if you can't say "Merry Christmas" nicely, why say it at all?
Sorry AngloIrish, but you are painting with a very broad brush. And you are dishonest. You obviously haven't studied American history or you might know something about the rich Christian influence on American society. We only got rid of prayer in school in the 1960's, thanks to the agitation of a known communist, Madelyn Murray O'Hare, almost two hundred years after we were founded. The McGuffey readers, which were used extensively in the little red schoolhouses around our nation back in the 1800's had endless lessons pertaining to God. Our money still says the words "In God we trust" and the Pledge of Allegiance states that we are one nation under God.
Your revisionist history is worthy of nothing but scorn. Your contempt is deafening.
Oh and, P.S., George Washington converted to Catholicism on his deathbed. He was baptised into the Catholic Church by a Fr. Leonard Neale, S.J. who was called to Mt Vernon four hours before Washington's death. It was reported after his death that his Negro slaves were beside themselves, engaging in much weeping and wailing, because, "Massa Washington had been snared by the Scarlet Woman of Rome."
American, Hi!
I thought I would catch you on another thread but haven't seen you tonight. They posted it here that Robert would be at the Heritage Foundation in downtown D.C. last Tuesday and i knew I'd be in town that day for some business so it worked out for me to go. I'll tell you more when I catch you sometime this week. Have a good day where you are. (I'm going to bed!)